Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20111116

>> on the streets of major cities -- >> wow. good morning, everyone. herman cain does explain his libya answer. we're going to have that coming up. welcome to "morning joe," it's wednesday, november 16th. with us onset, we have mike barnicle. what? >> herman cain. >> we're going to miss him when he finally falls off the tracks. >> we are? >> yeah. we have the chairman of deutsch. >> once a year, show up with the shoes, everything's okay. >> really? >> it's from the heart, that's what's important. >> they are lovely. i will say. >> i brought mike a tie, but i forgot it. >> what's going on? nothing for me? >> i got you a pair of birkenstocks, but i left them -- >> you know me so well, donny. >> i'll take the shoes. >> also editor in chief of news magazine "the daily beast." rick perry has new plans. occupy wall street's in the news, but we're going to start with newt gingrich. and this is very, very interesting. by the way, joe is off for a few days. he had a second sinus surgery. he's miserable. he'll be fine and back next week. so to 2012 politics we go. iowa caucuses less than six weeks away. several presidential hopefuls are spread out campaigning today. a new bloomberg news poll shows a statistical tie herman cain, ron paul, and newt gingrich all at the top of the list within the margin of error. so let's talk about newt as he rises in the polls, there are increased scrutinies on his candidacy. gingrich made at least $1.6 million in consulting fees from two contracts with the mortgage lender freddie mac. bloomberg reports that gingrich was paid to consult the corporation on a program to expand home ownership. gingrich maintains he never lobbied for the company and at the cnbc debate last week, he warned company executives that reckless loans would lead to a collapse. he says he was a historian for them. take a listen. >> i offered advice, and my advice as a historian as they walked in and said to me, we are now making loans to people that have no credit history and have no record of paying back anything, but that's what the government wants -- i said at the time, this is a bubble. this is insane, this is impossible. >> i never heard of a historian getting paid how much? that's good money for a historian. >> yeah. the ceo does not remember this conversation, which sounded like a pretty dramatic one. it is a bubble. you would remember that, right? >> do you know what's amazing when you see gingrich pop in the polls. one guy comes center stage, the light shines, and then they bring out the big hook and we yank them and the next one -- >> it's another version of what joe has been saying and then gets -- >> i think -- this whole debate. the thing about gingrich, he defines loose cannon. he'll say any thing at any point and has. and i think it's just ten minutes. >> we also have to distinguish polls versus people voting for the show to continue. when you say herman cain at 20% or 23% in some other places, all that is we want to see the show continue because if he goes pay way, there's no show. >> come on. >> no. we have to distinguish in voters minds, are they voting or voting for the tv show? >> the show is about to end. he lost 11 points in a month. >> the situation is so dire, i don't think anybody's taking this situation seriously for the moment. and when they do, it's not going to be pretty, actually. >> ron paul's still hanging in there in a big way. >> ron paul looks like a serious guy and is a serious guy, by the way, compared to these other guys. herman cain, rick perry. ron paul is serious, and ron paul unlike some other candidates on the republican side actually has beliefs. i mean rick perry, the big thing about his great pause and not coming up with the third department that he'd do away with. if you really believed in eliminating three government agencies, if you believed it personally rather than some adviser -- >> you might remember. >> you would remember it. >> let me cap off this gingrich story. former freddie mac executives are completely disputing his accounts. since his relationship with the company ended in 2008, gingrich has been a very critical part of both freddie mac and fannie mae blaming the two for causing the subprime mortgage crisis. in his book "save america," gingrich slams the two enterprises for "irresponsible lending policies and sugge" and a replacing them. and they say what he says he says to them as a historian is not what they say he said to them as a historian. he got a lot of money for it. >> this is a hideous new kind of cycle. you leave serving your country, then you want to get back into politics and you sell them out. it seems very ugly way to behave. >> some of these candidates are still selling out and making money on the campaign trail. >> it's true. >> how do we differentiate between book tour and campaign from some of these people? honestly -- >> we ask them about libya. >> you can see where they're spending their time too. herman cain is in wisconsin, he's headed to florida. he was in wisconsin when he made the comment. he's heading to florida today. not focusing on iowa. one other point on the gingrich thing. early october at one of the republican debates, he was asked about putting people in jail with regard to the financial crisis, he said you can start with barney frank. he said that famously, and look at his relationship and lobbyist with freddie mac. >> you know what's amazing about gingrich in the new national poll, he beats obama head-to-head -- >> that's a sense of desperation, i think, of the american public trying frantically to find anyone they can hang their hat on. >> i'm going to have to find that poll. all right. on to herman cain who is still on the defensive after getting hung up on a libya question during an interview on monday. speaking to reporters in iowa yesterday, cain offered his explanation about what happened in that conversation. >> being in a room where you've been asked question after question on different topic after different topic, i paused. and i don't understand why that pause created so much "controversy." i paused to gather my thoughts. i have never not taken responsibility for what some people perceive as mishaps, missteps, or whatever the case may be. in that particular case, i paused to gather my thoughts. in any other instance where i may have said something that may have been misinterpreted, i have always corrected myself. >> wow. i don't pause like that. >> you know, when you see herman cain and you see rick perry last week, you wonder, what do people around the world think of this process that we go through in electing a president of the united states? i mean, these guys are a joke. and that's the bottom line. herman cain is a joke. >> a fantastic piece in this week's "newsweek" called "the stupid party" and he talks about what point the republican party decided to become the stupid party. >> i good in trouble with joe last week for calling rick perry stupid. >> it's a subtle title. >> they probably don't -- they probably know more of the work of selma hayek that fredia hhay. >> you're talking about the fringe candidates. i don't know if you would suggest that jon huntsman and mitt romney are stupid. >> talking about herman cain and rick perry. >> not at all. >> even romney now has to say he doesn't know where global warming comes from. even the smart ones have to act stupid. >> for those who seem to be on the cain train, let's take a look at his pauses, just for a second. this is what he calls pausing. alex, can you roll that for a second? >> you agreed with president obama on libya, or not? >> okay. libya. >> that's just fine. okay. >> president obama. >> it's hard to watch. it's actually hard to watch. >> in the same interview where he was explaining his pauses in wisconsin, he said that former secretary of state henry kissinger turned down his offer to be secretary of state. >> sorry. >> i respect that, i just appreciate the fact he was kind enough to spend some time and give me his perspective on the middle east and all of these other countries around the world. so he was like a wise sage, you know, giving me a lot of perspective about how to go about dealing with these issues. >> as an image guy, can i make the most minute point? why is he wearing that hat and running for president of the united states? you're wearing -- >> what's wrong with the hat? >> a lot. >> what do you figure his advice was to herman? try to read a newspaper, herman? >> honestly, i know dr. kissinger, i don't understand why he met with him. i'm dumbfounded. that's where it starts. what are you doing? seriously. >> good question. >> what are you doing? i'd like to know. maybe he'd like to come on the show and explain to me the reason -- he doesn't have a lot of time for a lot of people, i know that personally. he goes to meet with herman cain. are you kidding me? >> he maybe thought he should be giving a tutorial to these candidates to at least not embarrass themselves with the republican party. >> okay. >> 1 out of 4 republicans have checked the box next to his name and say, yeah, i think this should be the commander in chief of our country. >> that number is falling, though. he's down 11 points in the last month. >> and it's also, i think, skewed. if you look at iowa, iowa is dominated by the, you know, christian fundamentalists and the tea party has a huge impact in iowa. so they're basically, i think, casting the ballot for anyone other than romney, i fear, because he's a moderate. he might be too moderate to be a republican or their kind of republicanism. >> both candidates perry and cain have eluded to this crisis in a way on the road in what they keep calling this topsy turvy state. it's a scary thing for them. >> rick perry, that's easy to explain. he's down in texas, and hitting about .400, all right. and he says, why not? i'll step up to the major leagues and run for president. and the fast balls are 4 or 5 miles an hour faster and he can't catch it up to it and he's done. >> the latest poll shows 29% haven't made up their minds yet. it'll be interesting to see how all of this goes down. we'll be watching it closely. and honestly, i want a couple of good candidates. i know -- i won't even go on twitter today because i know it'll seem that there may be some ideological drive behind my comments. but i would like to see a good candidate. i would like the clowns to leave the stage, go sell books elsewhere and make this a real conversation for this country. make this a real race. >> there's a whine factor if you listen to cain and complaining, i'm asked all of these questions in the room. and rick perry debates. i shouldn't have to debate. >> why would you be running for office? >> there's this whine factor that's so distasteful. couple other pieces of news to get to. new details are surfacing in how the obama administration dealt with the bankruptcy of solyndra, the company that received $500 million loan from the department. showing the administration pushed the company "very hard" to delay announcing layoffs until after the midterm elections. the e-mails were made public as part of a house committee investigation. the white house denies politics were at play. but that seems -- that seems like very interesting timing they were pushing for. and i wonder why this story hasn't picked up more because it seems to me there were a few other things the president was trying to put off until later. but this is pretty basic. we'll look at those e-mails and follow that story. occupy wall street also in the news. the center of the movement looks very different this morning. new york city has clamped down on nearly two months of live-in protests in lower manhattan sending in police in their early morning hours yesterday to tear down the demonstrators' tents and temporarily evict the protesters while the park was being cleaned. and now a judge is siding with michael bloomberg who argued that camping in the park was not protected by the protesters' first amendment right to free speech. still the decision did not discourage demonstrators as hundreds returned later in the day to continue their protests. anyone have a problem with them cleaning the park and perhaps not letting them camp there? >> i think occupy wall street, they missed their window. it was catching steam, it was getting a lot of attention, now 2/3 of americans are against it like they're against the tea party. and it has just continued as a shapeless thing. and i think people are starting to look at it and go, what, are they for real? >> at the same time, of course, being driven out of the park may give them a bit more energy. i still don't think the disgruntlement is going to go away. and i think it's going to gather steam in some other form. it'd be a mistake to imagine that because they've been pushed out of the park, it's going to go away. >> if you looked at "the post" yesterday, the picture was some naked woman. they show the pictures -- >> that's "the post." >> if you look at a lot of images that you're going to pick up from there -- >> "the post," by the way. >> no way. not "the post." >> don't underestimate the strength of the movement. >> i agree with mike. >> i don't understand what's behind it. but the articulation of this movement i think is running out of steam. >> they don't have people firing bullets on them like they do. but i think it's going to give them new energy, force them to ask themselves what they're doing and how they can coalesce in different ways. and gets rid of all the bums and hangers on. >> they need a little rebranding. >> rebranding. >> first of all they're calling themselves the 99%. if you go down there, your eyesight will tell you almost immediately that they've got to rebrand that 99%. they're not 99%. they're nearly all white, gap, banana republic clothing -- they have to get to one fundamental message within them but they're not getting out. and it is fairness. the income inequality in this country, and the tax system in this country is unfair. >> i'll tell you the branding -- if you go back to the '60s. they had abbey hoffman. they need two or three legitimate faces to occupy the news. because a group can't send a message out. if you're going to go out and want a camera down there, say we want you to stand on your soap box, they've got nowhere to go. they need one or two or three people to become the faces of that movement. every movement has a face. >> it's absolutely right. we went to photograph them, and i thought, this looks like a gap ad. it really did. >> excuse me, they also -- >> searching in -- >> they need to go to washington. if they want the rules of the game changed, the guys on wall street aren't going to change the rules. they need to go to washington, go to pennsylvania avenue. >> they need a former wall street guy. a guy who lived in that world who has come to the other side and says, i've lived there -- >> not someone on a book tour. >> some legitimate person who has lived it, breathed it and says, you know what? i've seen the light. >> so you don't want susan sarandon and the hollywood stars? >> you want lloyd blankfein. >> would that be credible? all of a sudden now not only do you have a face. >> it's a good movie. >> that's what i would cast. that's what i would cast. who would i have playing in that role? >> jon corzine is looking for something to do. >> i think he's sent too many people out of work just lately to lift his head. >> this could be a turning point. they do have to figure out what they're going to do. if they want to make this ugly and not fight with police, they're going to made into a joke. if they find a leader, their message is so fundamentally important to this country, they could make a really big, good difference. >> if we wanted to invite someone on the show today, who would it be? >> who would be the occupy wall street representative? >> on television. >> sure. bob ruban. coming up, marco rubio and chris coons. and later we'll talk to stephen king about his new novel. a big win for frozen pizza, tomato paste, and french fries. but first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> we're waking up to a serious weather threat in louisiana and mississippi. tornadoes this morning, numerous ones already reported with some damage. one reported tornado just outside of new orleans, in between new orleans and kenner along interstate 10. new orleans itself, the downtown area is safe, but out by the airport is where the tornado is located currently. as this storm threat is all of mississippi and now into northern alabama too. so around tuscaloosa and birmingham, we'll watch you a little later this morning for your chance of severe weather. kentucky, you're waking up to another morning of just heavy rain, also much of tennessee is getting wet and all of this rain is headed for the eastern sea board today. the rain will be steady and heavy later today into tonight. even new york city, hartford, and boston, you'll see some rain the second half of today. the warm weather stretch is coming to an end. today it's in chicago, minneapolis, and denver, and then all of that cold air pushes its way to the east coast. it's been a very warm november. very strange, but it's going to get things back to normal. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] investing for yourself isn't some optional pursuit. a privilege for the ultra-wealthy. it's a necessity. i find investments with e-trade's top 5 lists. quickly. easily. i use pre-defined screeners and insightful trading ideas to dig deeper. work smarter. not harder. i depend on myself the one person i do trust to take charge of my financial future. [ bell dinging ] the category tonight top ten thoughts that went through herman cain's mind during this moment. i remember a libya, but i don't remember olivia. number nine, i told them politics was off limits. number eight, maybe they'll think their dvrs are on pause. number six, 9-9-9. number five, what would rick dees do? number four, i'm going to be on youtube, number three, i should have called bob costas, and number two, these things are a lot funnier when they happen to rick perry. and number one thought that went through herman cain's mind during this moment, well, it's been fun, see you in 2016. >> that's pretty good. 24 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. and we'll start with the boston globe, which says mitt romney is taking no chances with tv appearances as he takes a strikingly risk averse approach to his second presidential campaign. the article points out that romney has not appeared on a sunday news talk show now in 20 months. >> that's true. >> interesting. >> you don't see obama anywhere. let these -- >> let them all kill each other. >> stay away from sound bites. >> the photo in the "observer" shows u.s. soldiers leaving the iraqi city. yesterday, general martin dempsey said a small number of troops would remain on iraqi bases as military trainers past the end of year deadline. s s a slice of pizza still counts as a vegetable in the victory for the makers of frozen pizzas, tomato paste and french fries. congress blocked rules proposed by the agriculture department that would've overhauled the nation's school lunch program. their vegetables? are you kidding me? >> this is great for herman cain, but just a bit late. >> is that possible? what's wrong with people? >> let's keep feeding kids the crap. >> this is like a reagan-era debate, whether ketch-up is a vegetable. read the story. we need more on this. >> we're going to feed them pizza and say it's a vegetable? come on, now. it's not just me. >> did you hear this? the drummer for the roots, questlove, was nearly the paul revere of the occupy wall street movement. 11:30 monday night, questlove tried to use his twitter account to warn of the surprise eviction of the park. he posted omg, driving down south street, something about to go down, yo. swear i counted 1,000 riot gear cops about to pull a sneak attack. unfortunately, no one listened. >> a little bit on the -- >> well, it's true. good point. >> he's questlove, after all. let's go to politico. the chief white house correspondent for politico is mike allen with a look at the playbook. >> pizza gives you your grain, dairy, tomato. >> you get it it all in one happy circle. let's talk about congress taking millions of dollars in private trips this year. why do we care? >> yeah, well, after jack a abramoff took his trip to scotland and people thought there would be a cutback on this. it turns out it's still legal for congress to travel a lot. fascinatingly, $2 million of the $5 million in trips this year were all to israel. much of the freshman staff, their spouses, their aides are going on these trips. so you can go almost anywhere for two nights with the ethics committee approval, trade associations, companies that lobby. and if you get colleges or organizations that don't lobby, they can take slightly longer trips. >> help people understand who don't live inside the beltway why this is still okay, why it's ethical. what's the line there? >> yeah, well, people who sponsor the trips argue that these are learning experiences that congressmen who enjoy these trips say they benefit from them. they say you don't want us to be locked in our district or locked in the building. you want us to have a wider perspective about the world, but some of these destinations wind up being pretty darn attractive, including las vegas where a bunch of aides and members went to see the consumer electronics show. trips are rarely hard duty -- >> you've got to get out to ces during congress. it's critical back in your district. mike, before we let you go. i want to ask you quickly about the super committee. a week away now, is the deadline, is there hope? >> there absolutely is hope. we've talked about by strong belief that the dynamics within the committee, these personalities within the committee don't want to be failures. the leadership of the house republicans have given them top cover as they would say in the military to do some tax increases. but a fascinating development now, the right conservatives rebelling against even the idea of some kind of an idea by the super committee. the conservatives have been suspicious of the super committee. and even though there's no real language circulating a week out from their deadline, the idea that republicans are going to be reasonable, the republicans are going to give some is already getting them flak from the outside. this is going to be a real political sell by the leadership. the next thing is selling it to the bigger congress. >> they've got to move quick. a week from today is the deadline. mike allen, look inside the playbook. thanks so much, mike. >> have a great week. >> tell me what's wrong with this. somebody tell me what's wrong with this. a slice of pizza apparently is a vegetable along with these other things. this was a proposed change to congress, the first change in 15 years to the $11 billion school lunch program meant to reduce childhood obesity, which we all agree is an epidemic at this point, by adding more fruits and green vegetables to lunch menus. food companies argued that the proposed rules would raise the cost of meals and require food that many children would throw away. and you want to know what -- it would raise each meal 14 cents. >> it's grotesque. not to mention the size of the portions that get served, as well. because i mean a small slice of pizza is very different from the giant, you know, cart wheel sized boxes that are being consumed. >> and anyone that wants to argue the health care debate, why don't we start right here. >> you solve childhood obesity, you solve health care. >> everything. and we can't even feed children well in school. >> the idea of kids being forced to go to school without coca-cola -- >> coca-cola should be ashamed of itself in all of these companies for pushing that this get voted down. i'm sorry. >> by the way, the companies is capitalism. i blame the politicians. >> really? >> they're not in the business of -- >> who do you think put the squeeze on them? >> i'm saying, but at the end of the day, the guys that vote are still the guys we vote for. >> i agree with that, but you should be good corporate citizens too and care about our children and what they eat. you're part of the problem. >> let's bring back recess, physical education. >> it's really sad. still ahead, we'll bring in "hardball's" chris matthews, plus more with donny, barnicle, and tina brown. and we'll be back with much more "morning joe." ♪ [ female announcer ] give a little cheer to a family of a soldier. just cut out the cheer from your specially marked box of cheerios, write your message, and we'll see that they get it. d dthcl pi'ngcl plfo, alno t ncar d dthcl pi'ngcl plfo, since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪ before we get to sports, a couple of other stories making headlines this morning. the violence in syria is spinning out of control. human rights groups say scores of civilians were shot by security forces in the southern city of dira. meanwhile, syrian military defectors say they attacked a complex near the capital. it comes just hours after king alaba abdullah of jordan called for assad to step down from his family's four decades of rule. turkish officials are signaling it may be time for assad to go cutting off key supplies to syria. we'll be watching that. more u.s. troops will be heading to australia under a new agreement unveiled by president obama. he arrived in the country overnight as part of a nine-day trip to the region. the pentagon is also sending more equipment to the country in what's seen as a show of force against china's growing military presence. the president weighed in on the u.s./china relationship just a short time ago. >> where china is playing by those rules, recognizing its new role, i think this is a win/win situation. there are going to be times where they're not, and we will send a clear message to them that we think that they need to -- they need to be on track. in terms of the accepting the rules and responsibilities that come with being a world power. >> china whose defense spending has tripled over the past decade says the u.s. military presence is not appropriate. the white house contends it's necessary to maintain the security architecture in the region. a little tension there. that's a quick look at the headlines for now. let's go to sports with willie. >> now standing alone as the all-time winningest men's basketball coach. coach k. racked up his win last night. he takes over the top spot for bob knight. knight was at the game broadcasting for espn, they had a nice moment there sharing a hug before coach k. put the milestone into perspective. >> the number of wins has never been a goal. and it's astounding, really, we've won this much. but when you have good players and you're at a great school, you're going to win a lot. and i've been healthy and i've been at a great school. >> krzyzewski 903 wins. dean smith rounds out the top three. he the legendary coach at north carolina. tennessee women's head coach pat summit, she's got more wins than any of the guys on that list. to baseball, the race for the american league cy young was not close. justin verlander cruised to a win in a unanimous vote. almost untouchable this year, 24-5, 2.40 e.r.a., also pitched a no-hitter and helped push the tigers to the first division title in more than 20 years. the mvp trophy is handed out next week. no pitcher has won that honor since roger clemeklemclemens. a guy who only goes out there a third of the game of the season, i don't think he's going to. >> he was so dominant this year for his team. >> to win 24 games today is like winning 35 games years ago. it really, really is. >> this from a proven winner. >> i'm a yankee partisan, but i bet they give it to verlander. things will get awkward in australia tomorrow. tiger woods will share the course and day with his former caddy stevie williams for the first time since their nasty split earlier this year. steve williams worked with tiger for 13 years. now carries the bag for adam scott on tour. woods and scott are paired together for the opening session of the president's cup. that means they will walk the course today for 4 1/2 hours. tiger fired williams in july. williams later had ugly things to say about tiger woods. it should be very interesting tomorrow. >> oh, he's said several things. on the other hand, first of all, stevie williams does not have a great reputation as a nice guy. tiger woods made him millions of dollars, and he's got no complaints really. >> all right. next, mika's must-read opinion pages, also news you can't use. secretary of state hillary clinton ambushed by a streaker. great reaction from the secretary of state. [ child ] it's so cool! you can put a force field on him and be invisible! [ child ] i call first player. [ child ] no. [ father ] nobody's playing anything until after we get our homework done. thank you. [ dealer ] hello? test drive's not over yet. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. [ dealer ] hello? [ male announcer ] but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get the all-new passat. that's the power of german engineering. get zero first month's payment, zero down, zero security deposit and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no monthly account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we rebate every atm fee. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 because when it comes to talking, there is no fee. here now is what happened to herman cain's brain. watch. >> so you agreed with president obama on libya? or not? >> okay. libya. >> well -- that dovetails perfectly into must-read opinion pages as we take a live look at washington at 44 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." >> he's got dial-up, it sounded like, the modem disconnected. >> i know, i should listen to joe and not go on twitter, but they think -- >> why do you do that? especially during the show. shut that down. >> they think it's me about the republican candidates. i'm going to read from my republican now about the republican candidates. can i do that? >> blast away. >> wow. all right. that's true. i probably shouldn't look at that. >> some guy is boxer shorts des moines is tweeting you. >> something that reminds me -- >> step away from the tweets. >> don't do it. >> don't google yourself? >> i don't google -- >> do you google yourself? you know barnicle does in his underarmour and boxers. >> i'm shocked. i saw you as a man of sturdy self-reliance. >> i think we're good. perry, cain, and a parade of painful moments by kathleen parker. they are not my words, they are hers, i agree, though. it's become clear that perry and cain are not now presidential material. we may indeed overlook their faults, but needn't excuse what are more than mere lapses. their lack of knowledge or recall suggests a lack of depth and absence of seriousness. we expect more from those who pretend to the throne. and while americans admire the self-made, many don't want an ordinary person to lead the country. a funny line is worth a laugh, a song may buy you lunch, but in the end, there's no winking one's way to the white house. >> a great point. in nine months of intense media coverage of hillary and obama, there was never one moment like that. >> and when hillary was going through all of that negativity, when she lost her real chance, she never once whined about i'm on the road and i'm exhausted and i forgot my policy. >> and i've got stuff around in my head. could you imagine if hillary clinton said there's a lot of stuff twirling around in my head? can you imagine? >> absolutely. she never could've said those words. >> never! >> and did either of them -- >> or oops. >> or did any candidate focus the premise on his campaign on running against the media as newt gingrich seems to be doing. every day he has some snarky shark bite. >> and the saturday night live skit, the whiners, that's what this group is. >> and i don't know why the book thing is allowed. >> why are you worried that people write in and say negative things -- >> you shouldn't read that during the show. it's bad for you. >> but it's kind of good to get an immediate reaction sometimes, right? >> that's a mistake -- that's three people out of 300 million. >> okay, but it made me realize that i should point out that the opinions i have definitely may be from a world view and a point of view. and that's true. so i should search for other opinions that may match it that may reflect it or may not from other world views. like kathleen parker. >> youtube cannot lie when it comes to exposing utter incomplete lack of confidence. that is one of the great things, in a way -- >> here's the downside of all of the social media and the tweet. even the smartest people -- you're obviously a very, very bright woman. yet we see things that come -- we read words and words have power whether you're reading them in the "new york times" or from a tweet. and we don't realize that's 1 of 300 million, and we see these words and this whole democratization of the media obviously is wonderful. even the smartest ceos see the one-liners and react. one human being. >> well, i agree with that, and i think there's some mean ones that come in really nasty about the way i look or something and i shouldn't -- but when it comes to the politics of this. if there's like a lot, a whole stream of tweets coming in that say i might be skewed, i want to question myself. >> twitter's one of many tools, it's not a bad way to just get a little sense of a rising heat on something. >> it's not a sense. because if you think about it -- i like to talk about a predictable sample. it's not a predictable sample. even if 20 people are writing in saying something negative, people write negative more than positive. maybe if you took a poll, 80% would be in your favor. >> it made me look for balance. >> think about this, though, the relatively short space of say ten years. ten years ago, you would think about a person -- you'd think about an issue, you'd think about whatever it is you were thinking about. and now people tweet it. instead of thinking. >> yeah. >> how about let's get back to thinking -- >> candidates. i want to get to some "newsweek" news. >> old school, barnicle. >> let me read something from "newsweek" called "the stupid party" by a great guy. >> funny guy. >> smart guy. >> how did we devolve to the point where a leading republican candidate for the presidency can't count to three? what happened to conservative individuals? famously dismissed british conservatives as the stupid party. but in the america of my youth, it wasn't true. conservatives looked up to intellectuals. william f. buckley set the tone with his -- and i can't say the word so i'm not even going to try. erudition. my conservative classmates at the university of texas in the age of reagan could all quote milton friedman. i mean, you know -- >> and he also says, though, and i think this is more distressing. therest an anti-intellectualism because of obama's so-called pointy-headed harvard type of cabinet. but even the smart ones have to pretend to be dumb, which is unfortunate. >> dumbing it down. >> dumbing it down. romney pretending he doesn't know anything about global warming. what is this? this is very demeaning to everyone concerned. >> do you remember a couple of weeks ago we had bill bennett on? >> yes. >> bill bennett, you could be left, left of center, and listening to him, you cannot help but thinking he's making some sense here. he's a conservative. >> yeah. >> but he's a conservative in a party that would very few would listen to a bill bennett today. >> i would like to ask rick perry or herman cain if they know who milton friedman is. they'll probably say he owns a deli on 2nd avenue. >> they know more about selma hayek -- >> some changes at "newsweek," especially some pertaining to women. >> well, "newsweek" has continued to grow, 20% up on the newsstand, up in renewals for the first time in five years. we're out of the icu. so the whole kind of evolution continues and i've been able to attract back -- we have been able to attract back some of the terrific people that left like the great national security writer and martin miller, the editorial director who is coming back, and i've promoted a brilliant young woman to be our executive editor. a wonderful combination of what i call the returning seasoning from former "newsweek" and the new blood of a woman like ju justine, a brilliant editor, and we're we're very excited. >> and on the cover, the countdown to regis' -- >> it's such a divine picture. >> news you can't use next. ♪ sen♪ co-signed her credit card - "buy books, not beer!" ♪ ♪ut the second at she shut the door ♪ ♪ girl started blowing up their credit score ♪ ♪ she bought a pizza party for the whole dorm floor ♪ ♪ hundred pounds of makeup at the makeup store ♪ ♪ and a ticket down to spring break in mexico ♪ ♪ but her folks didn't know 'cause her folks didn't go ♪ ♪ to free-credit-score-dot-com hard times for daddy and mom. ♪ v.o.: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com and started earning loads of points. you got a weather balloon with points? yes, i did. [ man ] points i could use for just about anything. ♪ keep on going in this direction. take this bridge over here. there it is. [ man ] so i used mine to get a whole new perspective. ♪ [ male announcer ] write your story with the citi thankyou premier card, with no point caps, and points that don't expire. get started at thankyoucard.citi.com. oh, yes, is it time? >> yes, it is. >> let's do it. >> time for the news you can't use. i think you're going to like this. >> really? >> secretary of state hillary clinton, photo op in hawaii, asia-pacific conference. watch what happens in the background, and watch her reaction. >> yeah, okay. >> that is perfect. >> you wonder what the chief executive is doing. >> she says, i hope you all got that. as a streaker wearing a skirt and a torch -- >> she's so cute. >> now -- >> oh, god, i love her. >> herman cain would have to think about his response to that. >> not a classic streaker here. if you look, he is covered in the front and the back. showing due respect to the secretary of state. >> what happened to -- >> a little bit of a security breach running behind the secretary of state. >> it's like -- >> whatever happened to streaking? is it still going on? the same way tweeting -- >> donny, why don't you bring it back? >> because -- i -- just because. >> when you're having dinner tonight, will you tweet me? having great dinner with family. shut up and have the dinner. >> i know. i actually tried to tweet about a family dinner and we all got in a big fight and i thought, that's the last time i'm doing that. chris matthews next on "morning joe." [ stu ] yeah. it's electric. i don't think so. it's got a gas tank right here. electric tank, right over here. an electric tank? really, stu? is that what you pour the electricity in? it's actually both, guys. i can plug in and go 35 miles gas free, or i can fill up and go a whole lot farther. is that my burger? oh. i just got bun. i didn't even bite any burger. of course, neither do i. solution? td ameritrade mobile trader. i can enter trades on the run. even futures and 4x. complex options, done. [ cellphone rings ] thank you. live streaming audio. advanced charts. look at that. all right here. wherever "here" happens to be. mobile trading from td ameritrade. number one in online equity trades. plus get up to $600 when you open an account. [ female announcer ] we never forget the nearly 12 million cancer survivors in america today... and the countless lives lost. we owe it to them to protect funding for cancer research, prevention and access to care. congress, make cancer a priority and give millions of americans what they need most. congress, make cancer a priority what are these guys doing? [ horn honks ] could you please not honk while this guy's telling me about his chevy volt? is that that new... is that the electric car? yeah. but it takes gas too. ask him how much he spends on gas. how much does he spend on gas? how much do you spend on gas? how much do i spend on gas? if i charge regularly, i fill up like once a month. he only has to fill up about once a month. [ woman ] wow. that's amazing. so you agreed with president obama on libya, or not? >> okay. libya. >> it's like he's trying to download the answer, but it's just that little ball's spinning, he's just buffering. >> i do not agree with the way he handled it for the following reasons. no, that's a different one. >> i am falling in love with you. >> that's a different one. what is cain going through in his mental rolladex. no, that's my policy regarding a woman named lidia. why didn't he ignore the question and shake your head and go, 9-9-9. >> do you think the libya comments reinforced the idea you don't have a thorough understanding of foreign policy? >> 9-9-9. >> i love you. welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at the white house. the sun has come up over washington. the lights are on, and they're back at work. the white house is in the news this morning. we'll get to that solyndra story. joining the table, the host of msnbc's "hardball," chris matthews, author of "jack kennedy: elusive hero." >> number three this week. >> it's a wonderful read, beautiful story telling. and believe it or not, new things. it's very hard to do that topic and to bring new -- >> i was very lucky. >> the evidence or the and publisher of "the nation" is here, as well. christina vanden huevel, fighting for progress in the age of obama. this is going to be good this hour. >> we have a lot to get to this hour. i need you to help, chris. >> okay. >> joe's not here. he had a second sinus surgery. the poor guy. but we think this -- >> what do you think to the right of mitt romney? >> that's where the country is. >> the country's not to the right. >> right of center. >> the opportunity niche -- >> are you being serious? >> huh? >> are you being serious? >> i'm trying to think, there's an opening to the right of those two sort of establishment people. obama's president, so he's establishment. and if mitt wins this thing, there'll be such a vast chasm of opportunity to his right, not far right, but to his right. why not joe? >> i like him sitting to the left of me. >> let's hear what the tweets say. >> president's pretty cool too. >> all right. >> just a thought. i'm serious, i think he's the best fit. >> absolutely not. let's go to the new bloomberg poll which shows a statistical tie for the gop front-runner in the hawkeye state. herman cain, ron paul, and newt gingrich all at the top of the list within the margin of error. chris matthews, what do you make of these guys at the top of the list? >> another way of saying none of the above. look at the absolute numbers, they're not high. there's nobody who can break 25% for any extended period. romney's problem is that 75% of his party relentlessly doesn't like him and they can put any flavor they want out there, including the horribly beaten down newt gingrich who has so much baggage. >> we were talking -- he has more baggage than a rolling stones tour. >> i don't think they really think mitt romney -- they don't think of newt gingrich as president of the united states. it's still an office which carries with it not just commander in chief and head of the political party and the executive branch, but you're really head of state. head of state, newt gingrich? the hi the highest honor in the land? >> he was speaker of the house. he's not -- >> why isn't he now? why did he stop being speaker of the house? did he forget? he was run out. >> his claim to fame is lobbyist in washington. >> let's get there. that's a popular -- >> funny you should say that -- >> romney not playing to his party, that's what's going to give him a chance to win the general election. he's made a very calculated decision, you know i'm going to win by default, i'm going to win the nomination by default and i'm poised -- >> you're a sports guy, don't look ahead to the next game. the game he's got to win is tampa. can you imagine tampa, 100 degrees humidity with them saluting mitt romney as their nominee, all those angry, angry tea party down there in combustible hot house tampa saying our hero is mitt romney? >> not their hero, but by default. >> you also have in the spirit of the country today it seems to me a very powerful mood. you can call it occupy wall street, call it 99 versus the 1%, and mitt romney not only physically embodieembodies, but the 1%. and this republican party. you were talking before, i think it was the article, how has this republican party become untethered from any possible solution to the problems this country has? and wants to repeal all the civilizing advances. >> because they're playing -- >> remember the hope? admittedly nobody reached that goal, the president included. but imagine a poster that says anger. you can't build a government or mandate on the word anger. >> they're builders, not destroyers. >> heroes are happy people. by the way, the problem with mitt romney, he looks like a guy who has been happy with america every morning he's woken up. he looks at his wife, i'm lucky to have her, i'm lucky to have a romney name, i look great, this country is great. he would never go to a tea party meeti ining as long as he lived. >> anger does not win. it's never going to win in this country. but when in the republican does the word win take precedence over the word anger? does it? >> i think they'd rather watch obama concede the presidency, watch that speech than a victory speech. >> they have not governed. they have tried to undercut, undermine, destroy president obama's agenda. >> you have the senate majority leader who has come out and said the number one objective of his party is to defeat the president. i mean -- it says it. there's no hiding -- >> it's beyond obstructionism. >> there's nothing wrong with that as a tactic. . >> okay. as we were all -- seriously not -- we're leaning left this morning in such a big way. i need to have you turn this conversation around and try and answer this question from the point of view of someone who might see us as a bunch of people on the left just slamming the republican party and not thinking about really what might be good for this country, which i think is what the accusation would be watching this. is there anything to be said for asking for a candidate in the republican side who can take on obama? and i think the two in the field are not necessarily doing so well, and i don't understand why. >> two mormons. isn't that funny? the two guys that don't seem right for the party, that's huntsman and romney. i don't think the center left fears romney, that's going to hurt the president. that's not a lot of fear of romney on the center left. they think he'll be a pragmatist, which is what you normally want somebody in president, somebody that will try to do somewhat succeeds if your a middle of the roader. i think there's a tremendous number of suburban people that think heroes make sense. and they think people like tom ridge make sense and bill scranton before that and christie whitman and tom cain. there's a lot of those people like susan collins and olympia snow out there who don't have a leader today and don't have a party anymore. >> president eisenhower wouldn't have recognized this party, in some ways, president reagan wouldn't have. he would've raised taxes to invest in the infrastructure. >> he cut a deal with southern union. you can't cut a deal -- >> came under fire from the neo cons. >> i want to get to gingrich in a moment and the situation with freddie mac. but this new poll came in, i think it's interesting to pepper into the conversation. look at this, chris christie, remember him, look at his approval rating, chris matthews. >> is there such a thing as unbuyers remorse? this guy captures it. and it's a mood of anger, but also, he looks like a leader, somebody to put some confidence in. he's sort of a center right guy, i think politically. he's not a right-winger. he's from jersey. and he wins in jersey. by the way, that's 56% in jersey. that's impressive for a republican. >> think of last week's elections in ohio. in jersey in maine, you saw a rejection of the a right-wing conservative tea party agenda. the democrats took back the legislature. in ohio, governor kasich was repudiated with his attempt to roll back labor rights. it's this overreach -- >> he's 56, they're 38, he's 56. >> he also hasn't been on stage. >> that's true. >> you can idealize and make him whatever you want. i have a feel if the light started to shine -- >> can we book him for tomorrow morning? seriously, let's get chris christie. joe's going to be off for a few days, that would provide a little balance anyway. let's ask him to come in for an hour. do you hear me? newt gingrich, as he rises in the polls, there's this other story causing scrutiny. bloomberg news is reporting that gingrich made at least $1.6 million in consulting fees from two contracts with the mortgage lender freddie mac. katrina threw her arms in the air. gingrich was paid to consult the corporation on a program to expand home ownership. gingrich maintains he never lobbied for the company. and at the last cnbc debate last week he called himself a historian for the company. he is -- i want to be -- seriously, what historian has been paid that money to be a historian for a company? >> i dealt with 40 of the top fortune 50 companies and yet to see one that has forked over $1.5 million -- they might buy chris matthews' book. >> who are we going to hire? who do we get this week? >> gingrich said he warned the company executives that the loans would inevitably lead to a collapse. >> and my advice as a historian when they walked in and said to me, we are now making loans to people with no credit history and have no record of paying back anything, but that's what the government wants us to do. this is a bubble. this is insane, this is impossible. >> okay. so i'm just going to say, i don't buy a word that he says -- there are if you look at the chris christie numbers, there are smart republicans in this country, just not that many running for president. >> the bench is amazing. the bench is pretty impressive. mitchell daniels sits out there, he could be running for president. if you like southern republican politics, haley is as good as they come. jeb is great, he's got the wrong last name. they have true beliefs. they are conservatives with true beliefs. >> here's one thought, whoever the candidate is going to be, that candidate is going to become the vessel for such a huge amount of money to basically administer an agenda of deregulation, more deregulation, privatization, cutting taxes. how much leeway do these candidates have in a system where you now have unlimited corporate money in our politics. >> to turn the tables on you, katrina, though, many would argue this president has really not struck the balance with wall street and big business and regulation and that he just -- too big to fail is bigger than it ever was and he had his chance, he got what he wanted. he got health care, he got a lot through, and this country is in worse state it's ever been in. >> in the change i believe in. i believe real change comes from below, from movements. alive with politicians of conviction inside the system. there's no question that the two major pieces of legislation he passed were diluted, gutted both by lobbyists, money, and by not strong enough leadership by not drawing a line in the sand and saying public option or medicare for all. if he hadn't passed that stimulus, we'd be in a great depression. we didn't sell it. he didn't sell it. we need such a different political agenda in this country. neither party establishment level party is offering it. >> i think there's another issue here, which is stability. i really do think it is a learning profession. bill clinton everybody said was a natural. why did he get defeated for attorney general, for lieutenant governor? you have to learn how to lead people. sometimes people learn it in the military. i guess you could learn it in business. but these guys are amateurs. they're not great leaders. who has to follow newt gingrich in the battle? >> no, i'm talking about -- >> this president, by the way, he's turned out to be a star political -- is he a leader of other politicians? has he learned how to get other people to do what he wants through intimidation, persuasion, or charisma? no. and i don't see anybody in this crowd who is the leader of any other republicans. they'll be led rather than leaders. >> why are none of these guys running? we all know politicians want power. >> i think they walk into these tea party meetings and realize they don't want government period. and they don't want a leader. it's an angry, miserable crowd, and it's not a fun group to lead. i may be wrong. >> there are leaders in this country. >> who wants to lead the tea party? >> but see, the good news in the last few months it seems to me is the corporate media has realized there's more than one movement in this country. it's not just the tea party. there are millions of people around this country who want politics that speaks to the real lived experiences. an effective, honest, government. they want people who made the mess to clean up the mess, wall street. when you said he's off balance. what did he do? he called them fat cats. i can think of a lot worse things to say. there are leaders in our politics. i don't like it when my colleagues say the elective system sucks. you've got some good people in there. you've got elizabeth warren who speaks -- >> she's fantastic. but she's pure on it. >> no one's ever pure, she's smart and speaks left, right, top down. >> you play the game on both sides. >> the one thing coming out of occupy wall street is going to survive it. and it's a great triumph to get it ended right. 86 percent of the american people, that's not left, right, that's everybody. wall street has too much clout in congress. it is the defining message of this year. and left, right, and center could agree on that. and i wish somebody would say, let's do something about that. too much clout. >> well, you know, to your point, your instinct is if you go out there and you're going to have to occupy wall street and get your groceries on a saturday. your instinct comes away with an operative word is going to be fairness. it joins everyone. it -- you've got 85% of the country who know something is unfair. >> there's no level playing field. >> right. >> and the majority of millionaires say it's not fair also. and they're willing to pay more taxes. >> no, i believe in patriotic millionaires and billionaires. i'm not against business. i'm for a different kind of capitalism. we have a crony capitalism now right now. we need one that is democratic capitalism. >> i wouldn't disagree. thank you for being in "change i believe in." >> do you still believe in it? >> yes, i will always believe in change. bridging the gap on capitol hill. the plan to put americans back to work. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> busy wednesday morning, early reports of tornadoes in louisiana, mississippi, and laurel, mississippi. a large tornado reportedly damaged three homes and actually there's some people trapped inside. so they're going through a bit of the nasty stuff this morning heading for areas of alabama this afternoon and eventually to georgia. we're covered in rain, tennessee, up through kentucky and spreading up into the carolinas. eventually all of that heavy rain headed for the mid-atlantic and southern new england. if you're on the east coast, you need the umbrella. that's the bottom line. and we'll deal with those severe storms in the southeast. all that cold air in the middle of the country going to arrive on the east coast in a couple of days. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough. that's good for our country's energy security and our economy. live shot of capitol hill. a lot going on there. the super committee is about seven days away from -- well, we'll see, it's not looking good at this point. joining us now from washington, republican senator from florida, marco rubio. and democratic senator from delaware, chris coons who are joining forces to push a bipartisan jobs bill. senators, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. marco rubio, i'll start with you. because the president when he put his jobs bill forward said there were many things in his plan that the republicans have supported in the past or could agree with. why not just go with his bill? >> well, there are things on it we can't support. that's the point of this. i think there are significant issues between our parties and that's why we have elections and hopefully a debate over the next year on those issues. there are things we agree on, hence the title of the bill. and we sat down, took the different plans, the president's plan, the democrats plan, the republican plan and identified things in all three plans and things filed in a bipartisan way and assembled them into one piece of legislation. what we're saying is, let's have an election about the thing we don't agree on, but we can't sit around for another 12 months and bicker. we've got to get some progress done. >> we've got a lot of different bills and plans going on. people are getting frustrated that there's a lot of talking and a lot of plans going out there and nothing happening while unemployment continues to get worse and people are waiting for something to happen. what is it about this plan that will breakthrough? or should we move on? >> that's exactly the point. we're both well aware there's 14 million americans out of work, folks in delaware and florida who contact our offices every day looking for action. we assembled a whole series of different proposals trade, tax, investment, r & d, and we're putting them together. these ideas were borrowed from a lot of different sources. senator casey, for example, was the source of the idea to encourage veterans to become entrepreneurs by buying franchises. the president's jobs bill was the source of several of them. the competitiveness and jobs was another one. what we did was to assemble from a variety of sources. what we believed were good, common sense ideas. so we can show to the people of the united states, there are republicans and democrats willing to work together in the interest of getting people back to work. >> so chris matthews, what do you think is going on here when you listen to these gentlemen talk? is this undermining the president's jobs bill? or is this good for the conversation? >> my concern is that the numbers don't get credibility in the world financial markets. and senator rubio, do you think it's fair to include numbers like, we project a revenue increase based on this deal that will come about through dynamic score keeping that we can't really point to increased revenues by law, but they will incur because the economy will be healthier. is that fancy bookkeeping or is that for real? >> i don't know if you're talking about the super committee -- >> the super committee. >> i do think the tax policy and regulatory reform can lead to economic growth. that's the big fight up here. >> do you believe that's a fair way of bookkeeping is saying, oh, woo ee're going to get grea economic growth. >> i think it's an element of it. there's no doubt about it. the problem is, it's hard to predict it. i'll concede that. here's the bottom line, it has to be a factor, we believe in economic growth. if you look at tax policies in the past, tax certainty, and tax reform. there's a lot of talk about tax rates. what everybody agrees on is that the tax code we have right now is unfair, it's burdensome, it's complicated. there's a growing consensus about let's simplify it, make it fair. we're not hurting economic growth and but, unfortunately we can't get a lot of traction and movement on it, so that's stuck in the mud. >> chris, what are the provisions of this bill that would move forward by the end of the year. which would put as much as $85 million in the hands of small businesses. it's one of the major barriers to job growth which creates by some estimates 2/3 of jobs in this country. that's something we can agree on. i think the lack of confidence in congress, the lack of confidence in the american people we can get things done by working together is one of the big drags in our economy. we put this bill forward as a way to provide an answer to that concern. >> mike, go ahead. >> senator coons, i don't want you to have a herman cain moment now and pause for about 15 seconds in order to answer this question. but surprise us. give us three or four examples within the tax code, reforming the tax code that you think republicans and democrats could agree on that would increase, widen the revenue stream? >> well, the one i have particularly championed included in this bill that should gain wide support is to reform, for example, the r & d tax credit. there's a research and development tax credit that has been allowed to expire and been extended, i think, 16 times. we are weeks away from it expiring. and certainty about the availability of a tax benefit is one of the major barriers to companies investing in r & d. by some investments, making it permanent. this bill includes a proposal that would encourage companies who event things here to make them here by giving them an expanded credit if they invent things here and make them here. this would encourage making it permanent, expanding the simply mied credit and making here what you event here. i think that's common sense tax policy. a lot of different americans believe we need to invest in manufacturing. we need to get our competitive edge back. >> senator rubio, i ran a business and as a fiscal conservative, rule number one is you never project the upside when you're putting numbers together. you project the worst-case scenario. we thought house prices were going up, and we know that doesn't happen. and the fundamental flaw is you are projecting all of your r revenues. and as a ceo, i would say, sir, go back, this is not the way we run a business. >> well, first of all, i don't know -- you are asking me about the super committee. i've read media accounts about what they're producing, and it's one of the reasons i was against the concept. we're not involved in the deliberations and neither are you guys. we don't know -- the public doesn't know what these discussions are. and we can't have an informed debate. on your point. we have to reduce spending, we have to hold the line on spending. we have to include tax reform and regulatory reform, but ultimately, the number one thing we can do to get out of this deficit hole is to grow the economy. economic growth is the single -- we need new taxpayers, new people working, paying into the tax system, spending money into the economy. and i think there's agreement on that. what's there's disagreement about is what kind of measures can government take to accomplish that? and that's a legitimate debate and that's what 2012 should be about. i hope that's what the election is about. we're not going to sit here for the next 11 months cashing a check every two weeks. on the things we agree on, what people are saying to me in florida, why are you fighting on the things you agree on? we assembled a bunch of things we agree on. if this kind of bill doesn't pass, we're in bigger trouble than i thought we were. >> are you talking to senator rubio about other ways of bringing in revenue? >> we had a very broad conversation. the senators and our staff. we sat down as a group over the last month and started with a much broader range of issues and hammered it down to those that we thought deserved bipartisan support. we weren't trying to put out a bill that we thought would die on the floor, that was a message bill. this is a bill that contains what we believe to be common sense proposals that ought to get rapid increase in numbers of co-sponsors and ought to get consideration. as senator rubio said before, we assembled this from proposals, democrat and republican, house and senate that have already garnered support. so it's our hope that this will show a common sense set of proposals that could move forward quickly. >> senator rubio, i want to ask you about republican politics for a moment. the republican presidential field -- i'm just curious, do you think that there are some folks on the list that shouldn't be? for winning the polls? >> no, the bottom line -- running for president isn't -- >> i'm wondering about your opinion. >> here's my opinion, and i'm not -- their running through the process, so they're being analyzed on a daily by says. and people can be judged on the answers they give or fail to give. i think one of the things that qualified president obama is he had a primary that went through all 50 states. by the time he got to the general election, he was ready to go, he was tested by hillary clinton in ways that, you know, no one's been tested before in a primary. and i think it made him a stronger candidate. >> absolutely. >> and you hope the same will happen in this republican policy. they'll be forced to think about and learn about issues that perhaps they hadn't thought about before they got in the race. and that's part of the process of electing a president. we do it now with social media where every word you say is immediately reported by people on the right and left, people that agree with you and disagree with you. >> and senator, asking them questions is part of the process. and i'm wondering about your opinion. do you think some of the answers so far have been subpar from some of the candidates? >> i think some of the answers will have to be refined and the candidates would tell you that. again, you can go back to the democratic primary and find that was the case, as well. early in the primary, president obama did not do well in some of these democrat debates. and as the elections went on, he got better and better at it. >> are you proud and confident in the entire republican presidential field? >> i am confident that we will nominate someone that will be a legitimate and effective alternative to the direction president obama has taken and wants to continue to take our country. and ultimately, that's what the elections need to be about. and that's a choice. i hope we'll get that choice in 2012. and as a republican, i'll do everything i can to help that happen. >> mika, just to pick up on what mika is saying. when you watch herman cain and you watch the libya question -- just -- you are the new voice of the party. you can't be proud of that. it's a process, it's a process. that is the guy that is leading in the polls. and he clearly does not have a command of the issues. you can't be proud of your party when that is the front and center guy. >> i wasn't there. er know he said he was tired. i'll give him the benefit of the doubt with regard to the circumstances that led to that answer. but all of our candidates have to answers on these issues. and i'm confident by the time we get to january, february, march, and april, that we're going to nomination sin our party -- >> senator coons, how happy are you that no one's asking you about herman cain? >> well, senator rubio and i got to know each other on the foreign relations committee. and it was a strong speech that senator rubio gave that was one of the opening moments that encouraged me to go get to know him that little better. we have a shared friend who was later a business leader and community leader in miami who helped introduce us. but it was exactly those sorts of debates with tough questions involving afghanistan, pakistan, libya, and developments in the middle east that got us to get to know each other. >> they had a conversation. >> and by the way, i'm so impressed, senators, that you're meeting together. i love the fact that you're meeting across the aisle, and you're young guys doing this. i want to say that both of you know probably about foreign policy than a couple of these candidates. i grew up with kenny and nixon, they were prepared to be president of the united states. this crowd running for president of the united states are an embarrassment to this country. the fact that this guy, herman cain, thinks he ought to be president of the united states without reading the newspaper, without reading the newspaper -- everybody who watches the program reads the newspaper. it's embarrassing that somebody like herman cain says he ought to be president of the united states, commander in chief of our forces, doesn't know anything about the wars we're fighting, anything about a neo con, which is the main movement that got us into the iraq war. what part of the newspapers does he read, senators? why don't you say we need a better team out there. you'd be better than these guys. aren't you embarrassed by these people? at least, mitt romney, he may be a little wiggly on the issues, but at least he looks like he got up in the morning and read the newspaper. isn't that the minimal requirement of a politician? to read the paper? >> speaking as a democrat, i'm looking forward to seeing our vice president as a general expert on foreign policy, and our president engaging in the debate that after the primaries will put the core issues in front of the american people. our focus today was finding common issues about the number one issue in front of the american people. how can we get folks back to work? how can we deal with deficits? and how can we do it in a bipartisan way. >> gotcha, we focused on it. we're hoping you find some success with that. we want jobs in this country and leaders that will speak the truth. senator rubio, welcome to the party, be be honest -- >> we need change, sir. >> come on, now. >> i think we're going to be okay. we're going to have a good, solid nominee. we'll have someone by early part of next year that will be an effective competition to the president. >> vice president for you, right, senator rubio? >> no. >> senators, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, more details in the solyndra bankruptcy issue. keep it right here on "morning joe." let's go to vegas. alright, let's do it. let's do it, let's go to vegas. vegas baby! maybe we should head back to the dealership first? vegas! no, this is a test drive. vegas! [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get zero first month's payment, zero down, zero security deposit and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com. did you hear sam... ...got promoted to director? so 12 seconds ago. we should get him a present. thanks for the gift basket. you're welcome. you're welcome. did you see hr just sent out new... ...office rules? cause you're currently in violation of 6 of them. oh yeah, baby? ...and 7. did you guys hear that fred is leaving? so 30 seconds ago. [ noisemakers blow ] [ both ] we'll miss you! oh, facecake! there's some leftover cake. [ male announcer ] the new htc vivid. stay a step ahead with at&t 4g lte, with speeds up to 10x faster than 3g. ♪ and started earning loads of points. you got a weather balloon with points? yes, i did. [ man ] points i could use for just about anything. ♪ keep on going in this direction. take this bridge over here. there it is. [ man ] so i used mine to get a whole new perspective. ♪ [ male announcer ] write your story with the citi thankyou premier card, with no point caps, and points that don't expire. get started at thankyoucard.citi.com. and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us. all right. 41 past the hour. we'll just get this quick story in here. i want to get your take on it, chris. new details are surfacing in how the obama administration dealt with the bankruptcy of solyndra. that's the california-based solar company that received $500 million loan from the energy department. newly revealed e-mails show the administration pushed the the company "very hard" to deny announcing layoffs until after the midterm elections. the e-mails were made public as part of a house committee investigation. the white house denies politics were at play. your take, chris matthews? >> well, it looks to me -- >> how could politics not be at play? >> looks like they got the money and a lot of help from the guy who said he was going to keep out of it. and reaccuse himself. looks like good old-fashioned pork. and i think all of this effort to try to do industrial policy and pick winners is always tricky business. and when you start saying the government of the united states is going to say this industry will make it and we're going to put our money behind this one, it's not what government's good at. >> but putting off announces until after the election, that's politics. >> that's like henry kissinger saying peace is at hand. >> henry kissinger met with herman cain why? >> because the approach to farm policy. a guy who has never heard of a neo conservative. i don't understand how you cannot be aware of a war in iraq. that he wasn't aware of that. >> i'm not looking at cain. i'm looking at kissinger. >> well, you have to accept the invitation. >> no, you don't. >> henry the k. can still write one hell of an op-ed piece. >> he was on the show recently. we had a great time. >> i think they all go to him like the mother teresa foreign policy. the "new york times" columnist bill keller coming up. more "morning joe" ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] from our nation's networks... ♪ ...to our city streets... ♪ ...to skies around the world... ♪ ...northrop grumman's security solutions are invisibly at work, protecting people's lives... [ soldier ] move out! [ male announcer ] ...without their even knowing it. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. [ ben harper's "amen omen" playing ] we believe doing the right thing never goes unnoticed. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? but is she eating sugar this week? maybe she wants the all natural, zero calorie stuff. but if you're wrong, you're insinuating she's fat. save yourself. it's only natural. a rainy day in washington. a live look. joining us now, op-ed columnist and senior writer for the "new york times," bill keller. good to have you on the show. >> good to be here. >> we have chris matthews, mike barnicle, and willie joining the table, as well. you have interesting things in your latest column. you say it's going to be romney versus obama. are you sure? >> thus violating the number one rule of column writing, which is never predict. it was a combination of prediction and exasperation. i'm ready for the primaries to be over. >> you say this. you say this is go right there. how romney could win. >> the clown cars -- i think of a thousand cars coming out of the little volkswagen. >> i watch for entertainment. as a citizen you just cringe. >> there are some very good candidates in the field. >> name them. >> jon huntsman. >> he's at 4%, 3%? >> what is the deal with that? i don't understand it. >> that's not what the republican party wants these days. they don't want -- first of all, he was obama's ambassador to china so he's tainted. if this primary season's about anything, it's about not obama. and i'm sure the mormon thing hurts him a bit as i'm sure it hurts romney, among the evangelicals, there's a strong anti-mormon bias. and -- >> i would think that first -- >> and you know, he doesn't get the blood boiling the way some of the other candidates do. they go from one to another, the candidates who push the envelope. >> i think that's the biggest problem right there. let me read from your column how romney can win. unless god has a cruel sense of humor, newt gingrich will pass like a tantrum. the latest election between two serious and certifiable candidates -- in presidential elections, the deciding vote still belongs to the middle. which is why i asked about huntsman, as well. but you think romney -- >> not in the primary season, but in the general election, there is this group of people who consider themselves independent, not in line with one party or the other, and of that group, there's a group that considers themselves moderate, not hard-core conservative or hard-core liberal. and those tend to be -- it's a bit of a cliche, carl rove tried to polarize everybody into, you know, right or left, but there's a -- maybe 15% of the electorate in a general election is these people who are up for grabs. they went for obama in 2008 and went very heavily against the democrats in 2010. and that's who the battle will be for. and i'm leaving out a lot of other factors. these things are decided state-by-state, not in a national poll. we don't know if ron paul will take his band off in a third-party candidacy. we don't know who will trip and fall in a debate. but if you look at it through the prism of the swing voters, it's an interesting competition. between two men who are in some ways alike. >> you come from the up for grabs people. bucks county, suburbs, where are they right now? >> i think that race will be very interesting, those two, but i think the country wants something better than it has. and i still think it's -- if it's about the past, it's in dispute. if it's about the president, it kills the president. if it's about the future. obama can still do it if he presents a second term that looks better than his first term, but he has to admit he makes mistakes, and he seems incapable of doing that. >> they're better than his first. the middle is filled with flip floppers, people that change every year. pennsylvania, by the way, is filled with them. i think the country is open to changing its mind about obama and that's his problem. romney's home is that they have more people like romney who want pragmatic solutions who say get under the hood and fix the car. >> just want to walk through these. tough case that romney could make to the swing voters. number one, the not-obama case. the ceo president case, the taming congress case and the not that conservative case. >> right. >> the ceo president case, does that work for him? >> it might because it's just such a universal discussed with politics, undeservedly but understandable given the polar sae ization. as a businessman in the bane companies which is he ran, his job was to take companies, out source ruthlessly, make them more efficient. it is in the a terribly sympathetic message in an era where you have 9% unemployment. bob schrum said when romney was running against kennedy for senate, they never ran because they didn't need them but there were interviews with people who had been laid off because bane came in and made their company more efficient. i think that could cut either way, that argument. >> how is he doing in iowa? does he have a shot at wenting that? and how important is that. >> the state by state stuff, you're better asking chris about that. >> chris, here are the bloomberg polls. >> somebody has to win. the problem is all the other candidates keep going up in flames. >> the trick for romney, and you got to it in the piece, not that conservative case. he's right up there now on the high wire trying to pretend he's as conservative as right leaning as a lot of the fundamentalist are in iowa. he's really not. that plays well in the general election but does it get him in the republican primary the way they are composed right now. >> right. as governor of massachusetts he raised taxes and feeds $500 million. the democrats will be happy to call it loopholes too. in practice he is a pragmatist. he's not angry at all. he's emotion free. no drama as obama. >> that's interesting. >> obama, romney, scarborough. >> these are troubled times. you just keep trying to make trouble, though. >> i'm a tumor. >> scarborough would be a great debater. >> yes. but he has to sit right here. bill keller, thank you. still ahead, we're going to talk to stephen king. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. here now is what happened to herman cain's brain. >> do you agree president obama on libya or not? >> okay, libya. smal l bu sinesses are the smal lifeblood of our communities. on november 26th you can make a huge impact by shopping small on small business saturday. one purchase. one purchase is all it takes. so, pick your favorite local business... and join the movement. i pledge to shop small at big top candy shop. allen's boots... at juno baby store. make the pledge to shop small. please. shop small on small business saturday. you can put a force field on him and be invisible! [ child ] i call first player. [ child ] no. [ father ] nobody's playing anything until after we get our homework done. thank you. [ dealer ] hello? test drive's not over yet. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. [ dealer ] hello? [ male announcer ] but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get the all-new passat. that's the power of german engineering. get zero first month's payment, zero down, zero security deposit and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com. okay, libya. >> uh, the, uh -- commerce. i can't. the third one, i can't. i'm sorry. >> streets in major cities. >> good morning. it's 8:00 o'clock on the east coast as we take a live look at new york city. welcome back to morning skbroep back with us on set. to 2012 politics we go with iowa caucuses less than six weeks away several hopefuls are spread out across the state campaigning today. a new bloomberg poll shows a statistical tie. herman cain, ron paul and newt geng rich a gingrich are at the top. let's talk about newt. bloomberg reports newt made at least $1.6 million from the mortgage lender freddie mac. gingrich maintains that he never lobbied for the company and at the cnbc debate last week he said he warned company executives that reckless loans would lead to a collapse. he said he was a historian for them. take a listen. >> i offered my advice. my advice when they said to me we are now making loans to people with no credit history and have no record of paying back anything, i said at the time this is a bubble. this is insane. this is impossible. >> i never heard his story on getting paid. how much? that's good money. >> they don't remember this conversation which sounded like a pretty dramatic one, it is a bubble. you would remember that, right. >> it is becoming like voidville. one guy comes to center taj, the light shines. then they bring out the big hook and they yank them. >> i think we need a bar? star horse. the thing about gingrich is he defines loose cannon. he'll say anything at any point. >> i think also we have to distinguish polls versus people voting for someone to continue. when you see herman cain, we want to see the show continue because if he goes away there's no show. >> come on. >> no, no. i think we have to distinguish in voters' minds. are they really voting or for the tv show that's about to end. >> he lost 11 points in a month. >> his situation is so dire that i don't think anybody is taking him serious for a moment. >> ron paul is still hanging in there in a big way. >> ron paul looks like a serious guy and is a serious guy. >> he often makes a lot of sense. >> ron paul is serious. and ron paul unlike some other candidates on the republican side actually has believes. i mean, rick perry, the big thing about his great pause and not coming up with the third department that he'd do away with, if you really believed in eliminating three government agencies rather than some adviser you might remember it. >> you would remember it. >> yeah. >> let me cap off this gingrich story. former freddie mac accounts. they say he has been a very critical part of freddie mac and fannie mae. in his book save america geng rich slams the two enterprises for, quote, irresponsible lending policies and suggests replacing them with private institutions that don't focus on, quote, manipulatinmanipulat. he got a lot of money for it. that's one thing i do know. >> this is a hideous new seek l where you leave, sell out, make deals and go to the other side. then you want to get back into politics and you sell them out. >> some of these candidates are still selling out and making money on the cam pane trail. how do we differentiate between book tour and campaign? >> we ask them about libya. that's how we differentiate. >> and guess what -- >> you can see where they're spending their time, too. herman cain is headed to florida. he was in wisconsin when he made the comment. not focusing on iowa or new hampshire where you would expect a serious candidate to focus. >> onto herman cain who is still on the defensive. speaking to reporters in iowa yesterday, cain offered his explanation about what happened in that conversation within the lock heed journal sentinel. >> being in a room where you're being asked question after question on different topic after different topic, i paused, and i don't understand why that pause created so much quote, unquote controversy. i paused to gather my thoughts. i have never not taken responsibility for what some people perceive as mishaps or whatever the case may be. in that particular case i paused to gather my thoughts, and in any other instance where i may have said something that may have been misinterpreted i have always corrected myself. >> wow, i don't pause like that. >> when you see herman cain and you see rick perry last week you wonder what do people around the world think of this process that we go through in electing a president of the united states. i mean, these guys are a joke. bottom line, herman cain is a joke. >> a fantastic piece in this week's news week. he talks about at what point did the republican party decide to become the stupid party. >> i got in trouble with joe last week for calling rick pr ri stupid. >> they probably know more of the work of salma hayek han anything. >> you're also talking about the fringe candidates. i don't think you're suggesting that mitt romney or jon huntsman are stupid. >> talking about herman cain. >> yeah. >> even romney has to say now that he doesn't know where global warming comes from. even the smart ones have to act stupid. >> for those following herman cain, let's take a look at his pauses, just for a second. this is what he calls pausing. alex, can you roll that for a second. >> so you agree with president obama on libya or not? >> okay, libya. >> so in the same interview where he was explaining his pauses and former secretary of state said he turned down his offer to be secretary of state. >> kissinger has retired and i respect that. i appreciate him spending time enough to give me his perspective on the middle east. he was like a wise sage, giving me a lot about how to go about dealing with these issues. >> as an image guy can i make the most minute point. why is he wearing that hat? >> you're running for president of the united states and wearing a silly hat. >> what's wrong with the hat. >> going to move on. >> try to read the newspaper, herman. >> honestly, i know dr. kissinger. i don't understand why he met with him. i am absolutely dumbfounded. that's where it starts. what are you doing, seriously? >> good question. >> i'd like to know. maybe he'd like to come on the show and explain to me -- he doesn't have a lot of time far lot of people. >> he maybe felt that he should be trying to give a tutorial for these candidates to at least not embarrass themselves with the republican party. >> one out of four republicans have checked the box next to his name and said yeah, i think he should be the commander in chief. >> that number is falling, though. down 11 points in the last month. >> iowa is dominating by christian fundamentalist and the tea party has a huge impact in hi iowa. they fear oh my goodness romney is actually a moderate. might be too moderate to be republican or their kind of republican. >> do you think both perry and cain who really eluded to this crisis of being on the road in what they keep calling this topsi, t turby state. >> rick perry is down in texas hitting about .400 and he says, hey, i'll step up to the major leagues and run for president. fast balls are coming in four or five times faster and he can't catch up to it and he's done. >> the latest iowa poll, bloomberg, iowa shows 29% haven't made up their minds yet so it will be very interesting to see how this all goes down. honestly i just want a couple of good candidates. >> sure. >> won't even go on twitter today because i know it will seem there may be some ideal logical drive behind my comments. i would like the clowns to leave the stage and make this a real conversation for this country. make this a real race. >> it is a whine factor if you listen to cain basically complaining. i shouldn't have to debate. >> why would you be running for office. >> there is this whine factor that is so distasteful. >> this is a little disturbing. new details are surfacing and how the obama administration dealt with the bankruptcy of solyndra. e-mails pushed the company very hard to delay layoffs until after mid-term elections. the white house denies politics were at play but that seems like very interesting timing that they were pushing for. i wonder why this story hasn't picked up more because it seems to me there were few other things the president was trying to put off until later but this is still pretty basic. occupy wall street, also in the news. new york city has clamped down on nearly two months of live-in protests in lower manhattan, sending if police in the early morning hours yesterday to tear down the demonstrator's tents and temporarily evict the protesters while the park was being cleaned. now a manhattan judge is siding with mayor bloom berg who said camping in the park was not protected by the first amendment right to free speech. still the court did not discourage demonstrators. anyone have a problem with them cleaning the park and perhaps not letting them camp there? >> i think occupy wall street missed their window. it was catching steam. now two-thirds of americans are against it. it has continued as a shapeless thing and i think people are now starting to look at it and go are they for real. >> it went kind of stagnate without any ideas. but at the same time, being driven out of the park may give them a bit more energy. i think it is going to gather steam in some other form. i think it would be a mistake to imagine that because they have been pushed out of the park it is going to go away. >> i think some of the visuals, there was a picture of some naked woman. they always show pictures of the -- >> that's the post. if you look at a lot of image images -- >> don't underestimate the strength of the movement. >> i don't underestimate what's behind it. >> i do think they are being kicked out of the park. they are being forced to ask themselves what is they are doing. it does, of course, get rid of all the bombs that hang out. >> they need a little rebranding. >> a little rebranding. >> first of all, they are calling themselves the 99%. >> you go down there. your eye seating will tell you almost immediately that they've got to rebrand that 99%. they are not the 99%. that's the first thing they have to do. the second thing they have to do is get to one fundamental message that is within them but they are not getting out and it is fairness. >> uh-huh. >> the income inequality in this country and the tax system in this country is unfair. >> if you go back to the 60s they had hoffman. >> they need legitimate faces that can occupy the news. a group can't send the message out. they need a credible legitimate one or two or three people that become the faces of that movement. every movement has a face. >> absolutely right. when i looked i thought honestly it felt like a gap out. >> yeah. >> they also need -- >> searching in vain. >> they need to go to washington. if they want the rules are of the game changed, the guys on wall street aren't going to change the rules. >> they need a former wall street guy. >> they need a guy who has lived in that world who has come to the other side and says look, i have been there. not somebody you would expect. >> not somebody on a book tour. >> exactly. some legitimate wall street person who has lived it, breathed it. >> like susan sarandon and the hollywood stars. >> that would be credible if all of a sudden now you have a face. >> a good movie. >> that's what i would cast. coming up, stephen king joins us on set. his new novel. what would america be like if john. if kennedy had lived. and, what has changed with women in politics sense hi-- sie hillary clinton and sarah palin were in the last election. bill karins joins us with weather. >> reporter: a lot of rain heading into the east coast. tornado threats still continue in areas of eastern ms ps, now through alabama. going to watch the birmingham area. no injuries reported. we have had damage already. kentucky and tennessee, just a shield of rain moving through the mountains and appalachians from virginia to north carolina. going to be a wet day in the east, especially in the northeast later today. also, the cold air has returned to the middle of the country. wind chill in the single digits in some spots. chicago, your wind chill is now 27. finally, the other travel trouble spot pacific northwest. one or two feet of snow in the cascades. their first big snowstorm of this late fall season. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. 22 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, the editor and chief of more magazine. next month, the magazine's article running for president in heels takes a look at what has changed in the 2008 campaign with women running for the top office. also with us salon.com author author of big girls don't cry. the election that changed everything for american women. perfect pairing. >> yeah. >> thanks for coming on board. so you didn't see the hillary video? >> no. show me. >> where is he? >> she was in hawaii at an economic conference doing a photo op. >> watch this. this33wkñ is her reaction. >> that's perfect. people wonder what the chief executive is doing. >> she's pretty cool. >> so much more comfortable with herself and being able to react, being in power and the way she has been in the past few years has really been good for her and her self-presentation i think. >> you do said something when we were talking in the break that people love hillary after she loses. >> yeah. >> and this is a trend. explain that a little bit. >> among the things that have put people off hillary for years, for the 20 years that she's been in the public eye is that she's a powerful threatening woman. there is a history of her having been brought low. the most recent was losing to barack obama. makes it a little easier for her to love her more uncondition unconditionally. people love her. she is a great secretary of state. >> do you think it would be different if she were to run in 2016? would people feel differently about her or do you think people would turn against her again. >> i think you would see a little bit of repetition in that our issues aren't going away overnight. one of the things i think leslie is able to talk about is we're getting comfortable with every major female politician our eyes get adjusted a bit more to the idea of a woman standing on a debate stage. >> more comfortable. >> leslie your article says maybe now for the first time we're beginning to view and judge a female candidate, not for her sex but for her stated positions and policies. i love what you have done with this magazine. >> thank you. >> is it that? that we're beginning to actually see them for their views? >> that's what we set out to do. what's wonderful is rebecca has a piece that brings such wonderful inseating to it. we set out to say has anything changed in four years with a woman running for president. we're not talking about policy. talking strictly about her presentation as a woman and femininity and we sort of put it on a continue yum. she was a woman mas ka raiding as a man. she hid her family. couldn't talk to her. you couldn't find her. then you go to the other side and you bring out sarah palin, sexy, blowing kisses, cleavage. people were calling her a milf, right. that's the other side. then in the middle, and i know you guys are going to laugh. here is bachmann. not her policies, but her presentation. she is right in the middle. she presents herself as a feminine woman. she doesn't throw it in your face. she has her children around. they are not thrown in your face but they are around. she's right in the middle. when our reporter went out there to ask about clothing and women running for president she was actually chastised. people are even saying why are you calling me asking me about her clothes which is quite a leap because that was not happening before. i think what we are doing now is we are finding we can talk about women. it adds who they are running for president aside from the femininity. does that mean the sex comments are gone? no. we have her at the fair biting into a hot dog. horrible. in terms of the feminine ation, you have to look at the picture so you'll see. she's in the middle. >> do you think in talking about the secretary of state, hillary clinton that her role, her image has been enhanced because of substance that she has and substance that many people perceive sarah palin and michelle mamichele bachmann do not have? >> i think there are a lot of people who felt they couldn't vote for her because of the way she assumed the position not legitimately. now she's totally legitimate. i think she could actually run and it would be a very different experience in terms of women identifying her. >> even the word tough as it is applied to women. >> yes. >> it is applied in a completely different manner. applied to a guy, it's like yeah, he's tough. we like that. when it is a woman and she's tough people go oh. >> it scares people but also our expectations of what we want and what we're nervous about with women is constantly changing. one of the things i'm struck by listening to your comment about comparing lhillary to bachmann r palin. we're talking about three women. of course the idea that hillary looks substantive next to these two other women as if those are the only options, whereas you have a whole history of substantive male politicians versus dan quails, right. >> right. >> and when you talk about the moderate. there are three options. hillary, palin and bachmann it really brings home that we're talking about three women out of more than two sentries of american presidential history. >> even though when we did our home work it is 105 women who have actually run for president at one point or another. you just never heard of them. >> since before they were allowed to vote. >> they have been there. we just have never, ever gotten them out on the chop. >> on a lower level, for example running for senate or trying to emerge in washington below the presidency, i watched sexism. maybe that's too strong a word, but that attitude breakout towards jilibrandt. when she first came on the scene, i know a group of guys that laughed. that same group of guys after six months of watching her said watch her she's going to be major. it was like what happened? their immediate reaction was still instinctive. by the way, there were some women as well. >> absolutely. >> then they kind of got used to it and thought oh, wow, she's impressive. >> it is readjusting, again, our vision of what leadership can look like. we have two sentricentursecentut looks like. >> you talked about the small sample size. i remember after sarah palin was introduced at the convention in 2008 i was interviewing a group of women who had supported hillary clinton and they heard from the mccain campaign that they were hoping to capture some of the hillary voters. these women said what an insult to us. thinking just because she is a woman i would vote for her. >> that was the vote for me because i have a uterus. >> the point that you raised is really interesting. i would refer to it as the male fear factor. >> uh-huh. >> about some women. >> and female. >> like elizabeth warren. a lot of guys. >> great example. >> resented her, didn't like her. why? not necessarily because of policy or idealology. it was, is she smarter than i am. >> but it was a little bit about policy because elizabeth warren is somebody that wept in and said hey, where is the tarp money. it was perhaps the gendered fear factor combined with the fact that she was kind of coming in as a regulator. >> i think more women need to come in and get in people's faces and do exactly what elizabeth warren has done, what hillary clinton has done. get people used to it. it's not just their fault. you know what i mean? we've got to step up and weave got to not be afriday to get in someone's face, reset the relationship two minutes later when it doesn't go well, move on like men do. i think a lot of women are beginning to do that and are enjoying the game actually. >> people are telling you about the whole fear factor with women in power which are is the all encompassingfigure. for men, it is something they have to pull themselves away from as they grow up. >> are you away from that yet, brian? >> i'm just giving you the freud background. >> oh, lord. it's often disturbing with you. but never with you leslie. the magazine is so awesome. i really love what you have done with it. under leslie's jurisdiction. this is a great issue. up next, stephen king's new novel rewrites a defining moment in american history. we're going to talk to him about that, next. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪ [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose -- to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. how about making it brighter. more colorful. ♪ and putting all our helpers to work? so we can build on our favorite traditions by adding a few new ones. we've all got garlands and budgets to stretch. and this year, we can keep them both evergreen. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. make your season even brighter with 300-count icicle lights for just $7.48. yeah. it's his thing... i don't even participate. boom! here it comes. bring it back! bring it... [ male announcer ] some parties need a bowl of queso. made from creamy velveeta and zesty rotel tomatoes and green chiles. it makes any get-together better. what would america look like if jfk had not been assassinated. that's stephen king's new novel. we had a chance to sit down with stephen and talk about his new book 11/22/62, a novel. >> i love the concept of this book because i think all of us at one point if our life fan ty fanty -- fan ta sized snp it is an english teacher who travels back in time to save john. if kennedy. the cover itself is beautiful. so, talk about this alternative time line and why you wrote about it. >> well, i got the idea when efs teaching school back in the 70s. s the really too soon to write that book. it was only about nine years. the manuscript was at the publisher and the title page on there 11/22/63. a couple of the younger people, the interns went by and said what's that because the day doesn't rez nate. that was our 9/11. i'm 64. you guys haare children compare to me. >> thank you. >> i remember that moment when your protagonist if you could go back in time and kill hitler would you do it. very funny response to that. before he said in the end, yes, i would kill the son of a bitch. does this english teacher, does he grapple with the question of what's going to happen because of him going back and changing history? >> yeah. there's really two stories in here. the first time when he goes back he saves a guy that he knows in the present time, 2011 whose father came home drunk and killed his whole family. so he goes back and interferes with that to see what will happen. the changes there are too bad so he decides that he's going to try to kennedy thing. so, i sat down with goodwin and her husband dick goodwin and i said, well, give me some scenarios if kennedy had lived wh what might have happened. because to me that is the fascination. what would have happenedd if he lived. one of the things they came up with is if kennedy lives he gets a second term and then george wallace becomes president. >> obviously so much material to go through when you bring up the kennedy assassination. some of it credible, some of it not. how much of this do we go through? do we go through the cuban theory. >> the thing is i went through a lot of different research material i think the story that resonates is the simple one. nine times out of ten the simplest explanation is the right one. tell you what, i'm going on tour and ready to have my ass kicked out of every conspiracy theorist out there. they believe that oswald was a clone. they believe a guy was in a sewer in dallas. it was almost certainly oswald. you've got that little window of uncertainty but i think it was probably oswald. >> does this english teacher grapple with some of the other theories? >> yes, he does. the idea that the cubans did it, that fidel did it. the idea that it was gene because he was mad about the antigangster that john kennedy and bobbie were doing. a lot of different theories. >> you also had a guy who had the pow tore actually look forward. there was something that pulls you in to have a guy that can do that or a teacher that can move back. talk about how -- why is it that reader readers love, that we all love putting ourselves in that position. >> well, in case of kennedy, it was so unlike ly one of the things that's bread all the conspiracy theories is it breeds that. it was like oswald won hell's t lottery when he got that job at the depository. he didn't even know kennedy was going to go to dallas because kennedy didn't know. he hadn't made those plans. the night before the assassination he went to ruth payne's house where his estranged wife was staying and begged her to get back together one more time. they slept in the same bed but marina turned her back on him and the next morning oswald left his wedding ring in a cup with all his money and went to work. so you say to yourself if she turns to him, maybe everything is different. >> that's mind boggling. >> so much changed because of it. >> so, i have this list here. good news, bad news. number five is damages. >> damages is a great show. >> ten is "morning joe." let me read what stephen says about us, willie. >> first read what number eight is, two above "morning joe." >> sponge bob square pants. >> shows where we are in the universe. >> yes. but again it's apples and oranges. what can i say. >> two spots below sponge bob. >> this is what stephen king has to say about us. it's like a big thanksgiving dinner. joe scarborough is the sometimes irritating sometimes amusing uncle who talk toos much. and mika is just sweet, like mommy. often the one that tries to make peace over the mashed potatoes. good talk with the politically inclined. what's wrong with that? >> nothing. i do talk too much. >> talk about thanksgiving dinners. mika's thanksgiving dinners, oh my goodness. >> we're great. >> well, the book is 11/22/63. it's great to meet you. >> well, it's great to be here because i watch you guys. sometimes i get a little bit mad and sometimes i laugh, but i'm usually in my work out clothes. to me this is a dream come true. >> all right. thank you. >> more with "morning joe" in a moment. beautiful picture of sunrise. 8:47 here in new york city. before we do business, i've got a couple tweets. matt lewis, our friend of the daily column, friend of joe, he's been watching the program as many of us have this morning with this analysis. great diversity on mojo right new. the left and the far left all diagnosing republicans problems. not an unfair critique. sheer another one also from matt lewis. mojo cast gop candidates the way anthropologist discovers a remet tribe deep in the rain forest somewhere. >> that's true. like you're in science lab. >> a hundred percent true. >> that's nicer than the ones i'm getting here. >> why are you reading those? >> i'll stop it. >> let's get matt lewis on this week. >> good. and chris kristi. he needs to come out of his shell. all right. cnbc's melissa francis. good morning. where do you want to start. >> reporter: with crude oil. we just crossed $100 a barrel. that's definitely something to watch as we head into the holiday season. consumers, maybe this was paying more at the pump. this is definitely a story to watch. we're also once again watching europe really closely. the new premier there, mario monti in italy is supposed to announce his new government today. this as the country's biggest bank is reportedly seeking emergency funding from the ecb, some other night money. so this is a beg concern in the european markets. we're watching european markets be pretty jitter ri. that's really translating to the u.s. geithner is really criticizing them for not moving quickly enough. once again, watching crude oil. back to you guys. >> your tent was moved i heard. >> yes. the tent was moved so i am not sleeping in zuccotti park any longer, mika. still waiting for joe. >> yeah. >> that raises a point, melissa. down there last friday and two blocks south of zuccotti park they were filming a batman movie two blocks north. is there any discernible feeling for people that go back and forth on wall street that ows exists? >> i was talking to traders who stop by there and talk to them in the morning, know the guys by name. they've almost become a regular fixture down here. it is noticed. it is engaged. we'll see what happens. >> melissa francis, thanks very much. we'll see you tomorrow. more "morning joe" in just a moment. ♪ ♪ ♪ ...don't matter what you saying. ♪ ♪ don't matter what you do. ♪ my heart is yours for keeping. ♪ ♪ do with it what you choose. ♪ and you ooohoohooh... ♪ you are my heart... [ male announcer ] vera wang love. ♪ oh yes you do... the new diamond bridal collection from vera wang. exclusively at zales. ♪ oh yes you do... smal the new diamond bridal collection from vera wang. l bu exclusively at zales. sinesses are theou do... smal the new diamond bridal lifeblood of our communities. on november 26th you can make a huge impact by shopping small on small business saturday. one purchase. one purchase is all it takes. so, pick your favorite local business... and join the movement. i pledge to shop small at big top candy shop. allen's boots... at juno baby store. make the pledge to shop small. please. shop small on small business saturday. let's do it, let's go to vegas. vegas baby! maybe we should head back to the dealership first? vegas! no, this is a test drive. vegas! [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get zero first month's payment, zero down, zero security deposit and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com. the other office devices? they don't get me. they're all like, "hey, brother, doesn't it bother you that no one notices you?" and i'm like, "doesn't it bother you you're not reliable?" and they say, "shut up!" and i'm like, "you shut up." in business, it's all about reliability. 'cause these guys aren't just hitting "print." they're hitting "dream." so that's what i do. i print dreams, baby. [whispering] big dreams. some adorable animal video. >> oh, great. >> you've heard the phrase deer in the head league lights -- headlights. the cop walks right up to the deer. doesn't quite know what to do. hey, man, get out of the road. he picks the deer up. deer is frozen. the police officer kind of pets the deer, calms, soothes and then off she goes. she dances back into the woods. she was frozen in the headlights. now she's okay thanks to a good police officer there in michigan. >> i like that. >> that's cute. >> right? >> that should be at the end of a show. >> just a beautiful moment. >> it also could have been dinner. >> oh, please. >> i'm just saying because deer season is coming. >> deer, yes. act my age? -why? -why? -why? [ female announcer ] we all age differently. roc® multi-correxion 4 zone moisturizer with roc®retinol and antioxidants. lines, wrinkles, and sun damage will fade. roc multi-correxion. correct what ages you. roc multi-correxion. at aviva, we wonder why other life insurance companies treat you like a policy, not a person. instead of getting to know you they simply assign you a number. aviva is here to change all that. we're bringing humanity back to insurance and putting people before policies. aviva life insurance and annuities. we are building insurance around you. our machines help identify early stages of cancer, and it's something that we're extremely proud of. you see someone who is saved because of this technology, you know that the things that you do in your life matter. if i did have an opportunity to meet a cancer survivor, i'm sure i could take something positive away from that. [ jocelyn ] my name is jocelyn. and i'm a cancer survivor. [ woman ] i had cancer. i have no evidence of disease now. [ woman #2 ] i would love to meet the people that made the machines. i had such an amazing group of doctors and nurses, it would just make such a complete picture of why i'm sitting here today. ♪ [ man ] from the moment we walk in the front door, just to see me -- not as a cancer patient, but as a person that had been helped by their work, i was just blown away. life's been good to me. i feel like one of the luckiest guys in the world. ♪ ♪ ♪ mom? dad? guys? [ engine turns over ] [ engine revs ] ♪ he'll be fine. [ male announcer ] more people are leaving bmw, mercedes, and lexus for audi than ever before. take advantage of exceptional values during the season of audi event. it is time now to talk about what we learned today. i went on madison avenue to millie to help out reach. helps women get their lives back on track. those are some of the teachers along with margaret grant. millie got behind the organization. thanks very much for having m

Related Keywords

Louisiana ,United States ,Alabama ,Zuccotti Park ,New York ,Australia ,Turkey ,China ,Delaware ,California ,Syria ,Washington ,District Of Columbia ,Carolinas ,Chihuahua ,Mexico ,New Orleans ,Massachusetts ,Iowa ,Hollywood ,Libya ,Cuba ,Jersey ,Chicago ,Illinois ,Miami ,Florida ,Canada ,Tampa ,New Hampshire ,Germany ,North Carolina ,Texas ,Kentucky ,Boston ,Tuscaloosa ,Georgia ,Wisconsin ,Eastern Sea ,Japan General ,Japan ,Michigan ,Pakistan ,Jordan ,Mississippi ,Denver ,Colorado ,United Kingdom ,Maine ,Iraq ,Tennessee ,Israel ,Pennsylvania ,Ohio ,Capitol Hill ,Dallas ,Italy ,Hawaii ,Americans ,Turkish ,Scotland ,Cubans ,Iraqi ,British ,German ,Syrian ,American ,Cuban ,Marco Rubio ,Dick Goodwin ,Henry Kissinger ,Stephen King ,Elizabeth Warren ,Jon Huntsman ,Ron Paul ,Vera Wang ,Chris Coons ,Lloyd Blankfein ,Melissa Francis ,Michael Bloomberg ,Rick Perry ,George Wallace ,William F Buckley ,Tom Cain ,Chris Christie ,Kathleen Parker ,Chris Matthew ,Martin Dempsey ,Herman Cain ,Ben Harper Amen ,Stevie Williams ,Chris Matthews ,Salma Hayek Han ,Bob Costas ,Newt Gingrich ,Chris Kristi ,Steve Williams ,Milton Friedman ,Susan Sarandon ,Bob Square ,Tom Ridge ,Mario Monti ,Freddie Mac ,Selma Hayek ,Susan Collins ,Joe Scarborough ,Jack Abe Abramoff ,Jon Corzine ,America Geng ,Jack Kennedy ,Abbey Hoffman ,Obama Romney ,Barney Frank ,Mike Allen ,Adam Scott ,Artis Brown America ,Cnbc Melissa Francis ,Barack Obama ,Tina Brown ,Las Vegas ,Sarah Palin ,Christie Whitman ,Newt Geng ,John Kennedy ,Justin Verlander ,Bob Knight ,Martin Miller ,Hillary Clinton ,Mitchell Daniels ,