Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20110829

condoleezza rice. >> he's taken the same shots at condi. he tearfully did this or that. he's taken the same shots. in some ways, he indicated he department always approve of what president bush decided. there's nothing wrong with saying he disagreed. it's not necessary to take these type of arms and take a book up saying heads will be exploding. i think dick overshot the runway with that kind of comment. >> i hate it when that happens. good morning, everyone. >> good morning. >> good morning, good morning. it's monday, august 29th. >> i'm wiped out. >> you are? >> i'm wiped out. >> you okay? >> yeah. batten down the hatches. >> willie had to go down to the orphanage to make sure the kids were okay before the storm came in. i have a project i'm working on right now. the storm and everything. i need a vacation, man. >> yeah. >> i need a vacation, i'm worn out. >> why don't you take another one? has it been two weeks? >> it was a rough time for you, too, this weekend. not you personally, but your community. >> i think more ultimately in this area water emergency than wind emergency. we'll get to more on the aftermath of the hurricane in a moment. yeah, our school is under water. i'm going to with hold any opinion on how i feel with that. >> what, are you going to take it out on god? >> no. i'm thinking you don't build them on floodplains, but hey -- with us on set -- >> this is a shot of plainfield, connecticut. we all thought new york was going to get hammered. it certainly looked that way. it should have. connecticut got the worst of it. half the state now without electricity and new jersey, my gosh when all the waters started flooding in new jersey, i suspect it will be rough there. >> north carolina is in bad shape as well. national affairs editor, john heilemann. peter alexander is here. >> he was so brave out in the storm. you went to coney island. >> i think your bigger challenge was your vacation in paris. i called it. >> i almost made what we learned a couple fridays ago -- tell his wife to be. >> we have the director of the earth institute at columbia university dr. jeffry sachs. pat buchanan, it is good to see you after a two-week break. >> it's great to see you. i was on the eastern shore. >> kind of rough down there. kind of rough down there, politically, kind of rough. dick cheney writing his book. were you surprised colin powell went after him the way he did? >> i was. john mccain handled it well saying i wish the vice president well and i wish him good health and ignored his comments. colin powell showed he was stung badly by the vice president. >> no doubt about it. jeffrey sachs, it has to steam you to see all these republicans fighting each other. >> yeah. what a scene, you know? >> i know. >> what are we looking at in news, mika? >> let's get back to the hurricane. we are talking about dick cheney a great deal throughout the show. first, millions of people along the east coast are surveying the damage in the aftermath of hurricane irene. after leaving the mark on most of the eastern sea board, they lost the tropical characteristics as the center crossed the canadian border. as usa today puts it, it was less than expected but a bruiser. at least 21 people died, including six in north carolina where irene made land fall saturday. toppled utility poles, power lines. the governor says some parts of her state are unreachable at this point. millions without power and in some areas it may take up to weeks to restore it. a serious threat of inland flooding remains for many areas, especially in vermont where officials say epic flooding on the river is inundating part of a village forcing emergency management to move to burlington. some 50,000 people are in that state without power. president obama addressed a lingering threat at the rose garden. >> many americans are still at serious risk of power outages and flooding, which could get worse in the coming days as rivers swell past their banks. understand that this is not over. response and recovery efforts will be an ongoing operation and i urge americans in affected areas to continue to listen for the guidance and direction of their state and local officials. >> this is very different than a snowstorm. in a snowstorm you know you are risking for the most part being stuck somewhere, but you are not expecting projectiles. we are in a situation where we have gusts of over 50 miles. that is projectile speed and also a speed that brings limbs and trees down. >> the damage is not as severe as was initially expected. the fact we were successful in evacuating over 1 million people from the most affected areas was a preemptive measure that i am sure saved lives. the tides heading toward low tide. as you know, the backside of a low pressure area comes up the east coast, the winds will force the waters away from the coast. the dangers of flooding, additional flooding have been eliminated and the existing flooding should start to go down. >> you know, i think this is very destructive for a lot of people in the northeast following storms in the south. you always ask the question africa tree that, why didn't they leave, right? >> right. >> people have been telling residents of new orleans since the 1930s and '40s, the big one is coming and it never came. for people along the gulf coast, you get warnings all the time, you pack up. even me, after awhile, you hammer the plywood over every window for the 14th time, take it. i'm going to atlanta. so, this happened. i heard a lot of people saying how it was an overreaction. a lot of people in the media love on saturday and sunday rubbing their chins and saying was this an overreaction? no, it's the nature of the beast. >> yeah. >> bloomberg, i think, had a great quote early on. he said better to overprepare than underprepare. >> all the local stations were on 24 hours a day. part of me thought you talk about something coming over. i's a community service. everybody did what they have to do. >> this is among the top ten hurricanes hit, by the way. this is an expensive storm. it's not projectileprojectiles. the flooding is going to cost a fortune from these places. we didn't see the winds. >> water damage is, i believe, it will be fairly epic in some areas. we had so much rain earlier. i think it was last weekend, ten inches in one day. there's nowhere for it to go, nowhere. >> a lot of people still stayed. good luck getting people like john heilemann out. >> exactly. >> it's just not going to happen. >> we were one block from the floods, from the evacuation zone. we were thinking maybe we should go even though we are a block out, we are not supposed to leave. then the hash pipe was calling. >> you don't have -- come on, you don't have -- >> i was going with the joke. >> let's move on to global warming. stay off him now. we haven't had press releases saying it's because of global warming, is it? >> whether it is or not, we are marching into more of it in the future. it's already clear, it's happening all over the world. one disaster after another. it's ironic for me, while we have these hurricanes of this intensity on the east coast, texas is in the worst drought in history, moderate history now. it's intensifying. climate is changing everywhere. you know, the denying continues until we are just going to be forced to live like this day in and day out. >> yep. >> romney and perry are arguing over global warming. we have that to read. it will be fun. yeah. >> what else do we have? >> let's get to the book. it doesn't reach bookstores until tomorrow but there's already controversy. in an exclusive interview, cheney reacts to the death of osama bin laden. >> i really thought it was a culmunation by dedicated people. i gave president obama credit for having sent the s.e.a.l.s team in to capture bin laden? >> were you bitter at all? was it bittersweet that it didn't happen on your watch? >> we would have liked to have succeeded. i think we laid the ground work for what ultimately happened. >> cheney spoke about his close relationship with donald rumsfeld. >> give me words to describe donald rumsfeld, what he was like. >> he's a man of great intensity at times. he cares very deeply about the country. in terms of working relationships, i have always felt he was the best boss i ever had. he was warm and fuzzy but because he was tough and demanding. i learned a great deal working for him. >> toughest boss you ever had? >> yes. >> best boss you ever had? >> yes. >> vice president cheney said his book will have heads expl e exploding in washington. former bush secretary of state colin powell did not approve of cheney's choice of words. powell responded to the former vice president's criticism saying cheney took cheap shots. the book revealed the former vice president was unimpressed with john mccain's prosecueside campaign. he said the arizona senator added quote nothing of substance. mccain responded to those comments saying quote, we have had differences as is typical for anyone in public life. i wish the vice president well and that he remains in good health. >> pat buchanan, any parallels you can think of? first of all, the vice president's book is going to grab as much attention as dick cheney's which shows what a substantial vice president he was historically. most vice president's don't get book deals. beyond that, can you think of any parallels where somebody this -- of this -- stature in washington attacks others in his own administration? >> offhand, i can't think of it, joe. look, this is dick cheney. this is his last political will and testment. he's going to go out saying what he believes and thinks is right and wrong and let the chips fall where they may. i disagree with george will who says he should apologize. if you don't feel you have something to apologize for, if you think you did the right thing in iraq, all though i don't think you did, don't apologize. he came out and laid it out as he sees it. >> john heilemann? >> i think if you are going to write a memoir, the people serving in high positions if they write those memoir that is don't say what they think, they are of no value to anyone. >> they look like they are written by lawyers and they are covering something. >> there's no value to history to get a whitewashed memoir. i would rather have the candor, whether democrat or republican, have their candid views. what's a problem with the book, some of the most fundamental wes we have about cheney are unanswered and how we was for a long time and fairly moderate republican became as conservative as he became. that transformation. >> he doesn't need to write that. everybody that knows him knows after 9/11, he said never again. he adopted the 1% solution. he said this will never happen again and i'm going to do whatever it takes to stop it from happening again. >> that's a reason it will be great to hear dick cheney do more reflection in the book on the transformation. >> he's going to be here. we'll ask him. jeffrey sachs, you look forward to that. pat buchanan was against the war. you were against the iraq war. look at that later and it's remarkable how much the middle east has been transformed. we don't know what caused it. ten years from now, it's going to be much different than now. talk about the changes, some good, some bad, that were set loose by events of 2001. >> well, i think the most is the collapse of u.s. power in the world. ten years on, we are a sailing power. we can barely keep our budget. we spend trillions of dollars. the world is going on its way. it's different how every country in that region is calibrating. the u.s. is a big mess now. from my point of view, what was seen of u.s. power, we are now in deep crisis and i think mr. cheney was one of the main culprits that got us there. >> you said the same thing about for people watching, you have been bitterly disappointed in what the obama administration has done since taking over the bush-cheney team. >> i think it is washington incorporated. it's been the same on both sides. we are doing regime change, but spending incredible amounts of money, not accomplishing u.s. purposes to this point. we are weaker and weaker economically. i don't give either side much credit. i think cheney goes down in history as one of the most dangerous people that served the united states. >> certainly people that go to your cocktail party. >> they have heard it before. look what he did sitting in the oval office as vice president, led us into a disastrous war on phony premises and weakened the united states. >> we are still mired in an endless -- >> we are mired in iraq, afghanistan and yemen. that's a secret war. we are mired in somalia and pakistan. >> all i will say is, if that is going to be the assessment of dick cheney, that also has to be the assessment of barack obama who took many of cheney's policies. i don't understand the disconnect. other people say dick cheney is darthvader. look at the extension and in some cases on steroids. he talked about tripling the number of troops in afghanistan. you talk about attacks in other countries. we are conducting secret wars in many more countries that we haven't declared war against. the drone attacks you were talking ant. it's absolutely shocking that the left is as quiet as they are. >> i think what you are saying is absolutely right. we expanded our military overreach throughout the region. we are not responding effectively to these big political changes under way. i think we are more and more bogged down. yes, the obama administration expanded the afghanistan war. we are still in iraq. i'm still predicting they are going to ask us and we are going to agree to stay on. we wanted those bases all along. >> on and on and on. it's not only washington inc, it's war inc. it will say it again, pat, you know, our problems economically are not disconnected from the fact we are conducting more wars than ever before. secret wars, dropping bombs on countries we don't have war declared against. it's going to go on and on. i don't think anybody in washington has the courage to stop it and say our real challenge is keeping up with the chinese economically, not bombing african countries. >> the regret is the republican candidates out in the field are not calling for a new direction of father help me, but i agree with dr. jeffrey sachs. united states -- the united states is seeing a headlong retreat from the world. we are coming out of all these places. we are bankrupt as a nation. we cannot balance our budget. the blunder was made by george w. bush with the country and the world behind him. now we're going after an access of evil, iraq, iran and north korea. we are plunging into that part of the world instead of handling it the way he should have. he broke the republican party and broke the united states as a super power. we are a diminishing superpower. china is a rising one. >> i have to say, george w. bush's defense -- >> that's exactly right. >> co-author right now. >> don't get too excited. he's said the united states is a diminishing power since harry truman took over. he wrote it in his third grade speeches. we'll be right back. you'll watch the interview with the former vice president tonight on "dateline" at 10:00 p.m. eastern. i can't wait. i'm very excited. i have always said, not just to irritate you, mika, i think dick cheney was the vice president at 9/11. i am alone at this table. we are going to have dick cheney here on thursday. >> can i come? >> you are not allowed to come. >> the book is already blogged. >> amen. politico's top stories of the morning. >> first, the cutest thing in the world. >> what are you talking about? >> you'll see. >> what are you talking about? >> it's good to see you. >> i thought i escaped you guys. yes, they brought me back. i want some starbucks. i hear you are sponsored by stack bucks. you know how i am and how i roll. hurricane irene is pushing out of the northeast. we are not finding much in the way of rainfall. it's great to be here this morning. the next couple days, an after storm. winds gusting in portland and boston. in the 20s at this point. once the planes get going out of jfk, flight delays. otherwise, the numbers for rainfall totals ranging from 14 inches in north carolina to seven inches in new york. flood watches and warnings through the interior northeast. as far as the numbers now, upper 60s and low 60s. 82 in new york city. 78 in philadelphia. 77 in boston. all right. your "morning joe" is brewed by starbucks. we're coming back after this. ♪ [ male announcer ] we've got all you need for back to school with low prices every day on everything. backed by our ad match guarantee. save money. live better. walmart. while i took refuge from the pollen that made me sneeze. but with 24-hour zyrtec®, i get prescription strength relief from my worst allergy symptoms. so lily and i are back on the road again. with zyrtec® i can love the air®. it is a ponzi scheme for these young people. the idea that they are working and paying into social security today and the current program is going to be there for them is a lot of -- it is a monstrous lion this generation. we can't do that to them. >> welcome back to "morning joe." that is rick perry saying on the campaign trail things he's written about. dr. sachs, we have all talked about entitlement. social security might be the same. we have to reform it. we have to raise the retirement age. just to bring a little subtlety into the argument, social security is not the great challenge that medicare and medicaid is. >> it's not monstrous or out of balance. the big problems are in health care. it's rising health care costs. >> right. >> it's where all the big curves looking into the future showing it's rising not because of social security. >> we have a challenge with social security, but social security can actually be handled with some tinkering. medicare, medicaid is the monstrous challenge. >> it's not the government that's out of kilter, it's the health care. the predominantly private sector. we have the most expensive health care system in the world. we have kept the monopolies. that's what's killing us, not the public programs. >> let's not overlook the fact that it's -- i'm going to get killed. >> no. >> you want a test, we'll give you a test. everybody wins. we'll pay for it and the hospital will make money, the doctor will make money, the company will make money, wall street will make money. whether you need the c.a.t. scan or not, we'll give it to you. >> the doctor owns the mri he's sending you to. >> we have mike allen. good to see you, mike. >> we have missed mike. >> with the politico morning playbook. they are talking about rick perry on politico and getting inside rick perry's mind. >> you were inside there. >> yes. how was it? did you find anything? >> you were talking bringing subtlety to the conversation. is rick perry dumb? maybe that's the subtlety you are asking for. people are asking in texas and increasingly seriously, heading into the nbc news political debate. next week, he debuted. people are trying to figure out, could he be the front-runner? we talked about this question. is he smart? is he not smart? mark minor said he's reading kissinger's book on china. he's reading the bible. we talked to a number of people around austin who said look, he's street smart. one democrat said this is like saying the baseball star david ortiz. >> why is this question being asked? i could imagine it being asked about michele bachmann and people going crazy saying it's sexist. i'm not sure what it is about. >> what are people asking? >> did he say something stupid? i don't get it? >> it's out of austin. he's great at politics but isn't a policy -- george w. bush comparison hangs over him in texas and here. people are trying to figure out how different he would be. run republican governor told us he was bush without the brains. >> let me ask you john heilemann, you have been down there and you have been trying to figure this rick perry thing out, what have you found? is it a cheap shot to suggest he's not the smartest guy in the state of texas? >> it's certainly the case there are many people, republicans who make the comments like mike just made. >> republicans saying that. >> republicans. usually on people who have worked for candidates who challenged him in republican primaries and gotten beaten, they are the kind of people who make those comments. >> sounds like what everybody said about ronald reagan who is an idiot. >> in a piece i wrote, i had a consultant that said when we refer to someone too dumb to be president, a republican too dumb to be president, it's leading up to the white house. this guy is dumb like a fox. he might not walk like bill clinton, but he's street savvy and street smart. it's politically as quick as anybody they have seen. >> you know, pat buchanan -- >> i would love someone with both. >> i was going to say, pat, everyone talks about how brilliant barack obama was. he didn't know how washington ran. he was running for president for whatever reason, it sure wasn't because he studied up on how washington worked, but he had what it took. are we going to make the same mistake again with rick perry and elect somebody that knows how to talk tough and excite the base, but doesn't know what it takes to run the country? >> unlike barack obama who had two years in the senate, rick perry has had a decade running the second largest state in the union. jimmy carter's aptitude test were compared to ronald reagan. he had street savvy and smarts and instinct to communicate with people. so far, perry demonstrated that. people knocked the ponzi scheme about social security. they know it's not going to be there for us. it's a hard, tough, straight forward language. >> all right. >> i love eureka college. i love it. >> sounded elitist. >> mike allen, thank you. >> one of my favorite reagan stories. he was at harvard and he had the seal of the president he said you know sometimes i stop and ask myself what i could have been if i only had a great education. laughter. anyway. it's a nice lesson for coastal elites. like you. >> thank you, mike. coming up -- >> not like me. >> as the tenth anniversary -- >> the gulf coast elite. >> as the tenth anniversary of 9/11, george w. bush speaks out for the first time since the capture of osama bin laden. >> the lockerbie bomber has been located. that's when "morning joe" returns. ♪ okay, so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. that's yours. lower cholesterol. lower cholesterol. i'm yummy. lower cholesterol. i got that wrong didn't i? 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[ crunching, sipping ] be happy. be healthy. can i try yours? be happy. be healthy. finally, there's a choice for my patients with an irregular heartbeat called atrial fibrillation, or afib, that's not caused by a heart valve problem. today we have pradaxa to reduce the risk of a stroke caused by a clot. in a clinical trial, pradaxa 150 mg reduced stroke risk 35% more than warfarin. and with pradaxa, there's no need for those regular blood tests. pradaxa is progress. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding, and seek immediate medical care for unexpected signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. pradaxa may increase your bleeding risk if you're 75 or older, have kidney problems or a bleeding condition, like stomach ulcers. or if you take aspirin products, nsaids, or blood thinners. tell your doctor about all medicines you take, any planned medical or dental procedures, and don't stop taking pradaxa without your doctor's approval, as stopping may increase your stroke risk. other side effects include indigestion, stomach pain, upset, or burning. if you have afib not caused by a heart valve problem, ask your doctor if pradaxa can reduce your risk of a stroke. ♪ 38 past the hour. a live look at the sun coming up. look at the news in libya. a new development involving the lockerbie bomber. >> he's still alive? >> sort of. >> when he was released, we were told he would be dead in a couple days. >> it was a big joke and stupidity on our part. >> he was on the libya soccer team. he's in good shape. >> it was a bad day. apparently, he's near death. his son is confirming his father is in a coma and in critical condition. he was freed from a scottish prison years ago. >> what's he doing? he's just making it up. keeping his eyes closed. they are poking at him. i need a few more hours here. >> come on. >> all right. he served eight years of a life sentence. at that time, the doctors gave him just three months to live. he's still here. >> yeah. i still want to know what the british government and the u.s. government knew about his release. >> everything. >> we have been so lied to by the british, by the americans. we have been lied to. this is the biggest scam. they knew about it. there were nods and winks. it's going to come out. there's no doubt. oil does it. >> oil policy deal -- >> thank you. >> when the rebellion started, nato went in to take him out. a lot of the wikileaks documents showed that. >> pat. >> i think this stinks to high heaven, the fact he's down there. send in s.e.a.l. team six in to inquire about his health. >> any stories about former presidents doing interviews talking about 9/11? >> yes. george w. bush is speaking out. he recalls the moment when he learned the al qaeda leader had been killed. >> president obama called me, told me osama bin laden had been killed. my response was, icon congratulated him and the special operations. i didn't feel a sense of happiness or jubilation, i felt a sense of closure and a sense of gratitude that justice had been done. >> okay. >> it's part of a special of the upcoming tenth anniversary, if you can believe it, of the september 11th anniversary attacks. >> we are going to talk to goolsbee, he's still around talking about the president's jobs bill. the president is going to have a jobs bill. jeffrey sachs has to be happy as well. >> i hired him 20 some years ago. >> what was his first job? >> working in eastern europe. >> real? >> good guy. >> we're not going tell you what he smuggled to the united states for the professor. we'll say it was a well-paying job. >> up next, must read opinion pages on "morning joe." 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[ female announcer ] ask the doctor about your loved one trying the exelon patch. visit exelonpatch.com to learn more. 565 pages and a simple apology would have been an order in some of them to say the fact of those eight years was we went to war, big war, costly war under false pretenses. to write a memoir where you say nothing seriously went wrong, if i wrote a memoir by last week, i would have things to apologize for. >> lordy. >> i think politicians say i can't be a mistake. seriously? we all make mistakes -- >> well, there are mistakes and there are mistakes. >> go ahead. what do you got? what do you got? >> not surprisingly, i'm going to read maureen dowd. >> how nasty was she? >> i have the nice part. >> okay. go ahead. go ahid. >> why is it not a surprise to learn that dick cheney's ancestor samuel fletcher cheney was a civil war marcher. having lost the power to heedlessly bomb the world, cheney turned his attention to heedlessly bombing old colleagues. he takes himself so seriously, flogging his self-image of the rugged outdoorsman even though he shot his hunting partner in the face. he acts like he is america but america didn't like dick cheney. >> okay. i don't think maureen dowd is the person, as much as i like a lot of her columns to talk about people making cheap shots. >> i could move on to another topic. >> let's go to frank. >> this is interesting. it touches on something you said during the break. this summer crystallized a growing sense our countries can do spirit was replaced by a resignation and our best days might be well behind us. i kept finding myself in the same conversation over and over and occasionally was i the one to initiate it. children in america were likely to enjoy lives as privileged as their parents. unsettling erosion of confidence and a pivot in the nation's psyche from optimism to something more subdued. it recognized real parameters around our will and where with all. >> we were talking about that and also talking about how the president seems, at this point, far less relevant than any president on the national stage. >> he ruled out a jobs program over two weeks. jeffrey, is there a new direction that perhaps they are garnering toward or getting ready to launch? >> who is going to pay attention to the jobs bill? >> we all say they should talk jobs, jobs, jobs. >> you said the same thing off camera. >> come on. come on. >> let's not play that game. >> i'm not playing that game. >> what if the president put out a jobs bill and nobody paid attention. >> we are on a direction that was signed and agreed to shrink the government. it's interesting. perry says his goal is to make the federal government as inconsequential as the american people. that's his aim to be president of the united states. whether it's his aim or not, the national policy is shrink, shrink, shrink. the moment after we squeeze, the president says here now we are going to do something. this is what's weird about the whole thing. there's no real direction. we go month-to-month improvisation in the debate. one month, the deficit is down. the president says -- >> you have been talking about the ad hoc nation of this administration since march of 2009. it's stunning. >> it's because we are on waves of day-to-day news cycle, campaign rhetoric. the whole thing is without seriousness. >> pat buchanan, i have garnered the wrath of many people on the far right over the past three years saying this president wasn't the most dangerous president ever. i still say that today. i don't know how dangerous a man can be who doesn't seem to have a core of conviction. he doesn't have a core of beliefs like fdr on one side of ronald reagan on the other. he's being washed arpd and pushed by the tide of history instead of what reagan and fdr, the two great presidents in this country as far as changing direction of this country. >> you want to get to where we are right now, whether a republican or democrat, read a biography on franklin roosevelt and how he grabbed government by the reigns and he took it in their direction just like reagan did 50 years later. >> we are two and a half years into obama. we have $4 trillion in deficits and tripled the money supply. they have tried the great plan of establishment liberalism. it's failed to cure the melodies in the american economy. >> massive attack. >> they have done that. i know dr. sachs will agree with me. they have spent money like a great liberal and no plan behind it. they have thrown money. nancy pelosi spends $9 billion however she wants. they have thrown it around without a master plan. no direction. >> we'll be back with more "morning joe." living with the pain of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis... could mean living with joint damage. help stop the damage before it stops you with humira. for many adults with moderate to severe ra, humira's proven to help relieve pain and stop joint damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events can occur, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. ask your rheumatologist how you can defend against and help stop further joint damage with humira. we are going to change topics briefly and do sports. is championship world series, japan up. >> japan always wins these things, right? >> just watch. deep to right center. tied at one. nick delivers the game-winning walk-off base hit. california was 2-1. their seventh little league tour. >> who is there if the united states is falling? this is a game we are always losing, now we are winning. america rises. who won in american league east? >> granderson hit his 37th and 38th. i don't know about the others. >> coming up, we are going live to connecticut with the latest hurricane. we'll be right back. 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year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy? have you read the reports that came out of new orleans and the wonderful things they did, giving checks to people who didn't live there, hundreds of millions of dollars in trailers they had to junk? it's economic planning that is flawed. no, you don't get rid of something like that in one day. i have had this position for a long time. i have a coastal district but i have suggested there's different ways to finance. actually fema is in big trouble financially. >> all right. top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." john heilemann and jeffrey sachs, along with pat buchanan in washington. joining us now, combat veteran, wes moore. >> good to see ya. >> great to see you, too. >> pat buchanan, i understand you had to evacuate this weekend. tell us about it. >> i went to mccabes and said i'm getting out early and i'm going to pray for y'all. they declared an emergency that afternoon and i was home. >> you were home. did the area get hammered down there? >> it got hit but joe, i will say this, this was not the killer hurricane andrew down in florida and katrina. it shouldn't be minimized, preparations were maybe excessive, but they were ready in case they had a killer turn. here in d.c., guys were looking at the water while guys were coming out of hurricane parties looking at reporters. >> you can't prepare for this. >> you can't. >> i was afraid we would have category 3, category 4 and category 5 storms on the gulf coast. that's one thing. i tell you what, i was afraid a category 2 would slam into the city, in new york, go across long island. that would have been catastrophic. there aren't millions of windows along the gulf coast. john heilemann, it could have been really bad. i think, ma loy up in connecticut or chris christie in new jersey or mayor bloomberg in new york, they did a good job. >> cynics will say mayor bloomberg was overcalculating because of the blizzard but whocares. the truth is they did the right thing. if things went the wrong way, the city could have been in serious trouble. >> you could argue more people would have been hurt had they not been prepared. there was damage and widespread water damage that is still, i think it remains to be seen how bad that is going to be. >> let's get caught up. >> millions of people are surveying the damage. the storm lost the tropical characteristics late last night as it went across the canadian border. at least 21 people died including six in north carolina where irene first made land fall. it downed trees and power lines. some parts of the state are still unreachable. millions are still without power. some areas, it may take up to weeks to restore it. the serious threat of inland flooding remains for some areas, especially in vermont. irene was addressed in a statement from the rose garden. >> many americans are still at serious risk of power outages and flooding, which could get worse as rivers swell past their banks. understand this is not over. response and recovery efforts will be on an going operation and i urge americans in affected areas to continue to listen for the guidance and direction of their state and local officials. >> the damage is not as severe as it was initially expected. the fact we were successful in evacuating over 1 million people from the most effected areas was a preemptive measure that i am confident saved lives. >> this is different from a snowstorm. in a snowstorm you are risking for the most part being stuck somewhere. but you are not expecting projectiles. we are in a situation where we are having gusts of over 50 miles. that is projectile speed. it's a speed that brings limbs and trees down. >> in connecticut, we didn't have it up there, but 700,000 people without power. the power company saying it may take one to two weeks before power is turned on because there are so many trees that have fallen over so many power lines. jeffrey sachs, as we look at the numbers, power outages, flooding, tropical storms, it's happening in the northeast. but in the deep south, they are suffering from extreme weather conditions themselves. >> when you look at how the climate is changing all over the world, the prediction is that it's getting wetter up in the northeast and it's getting drier in the southwest. the drought, right now that's affecting the southwest is setting all time records, also. so, we are kind of walking into this growing disaster. it's happening all over the world. >> the deep red on the screen is extraordinary drought. texas is undergoing a drought to the likes of which they have never experienced. >> you think governor perry would have noticed this by now, you know? maybe it would have led to a little curiosity about climate change. this is what's predicted from climate change. it's systematic as the world warms, you get a pattern that's called the hadley cell and dry air descends on texas with greater intensity leading to more and more prolonged drought. this is what the scientists, the ones he calls the hoax centers have been saying for years. >> the extremes are magnified. >> exactly. >> the dry gets drier, wet gets wetter. >> exactly. it's devastating. the koconsequences. yields are down. why? because of the hot temperatures pounding the great plains. are we going to blindly walk into this or have candidates like perry or romney say whatever they want, no matter what the evidence is. >> this is what's weird about our politics. it's not as if it's a hypothetical 20 years from now, it's happening right now, in front of our eyes. >> let's move on mika. we have another story. the book it seems like some of the big men of washington are going after each other. >> paul krugman has a piece about the romney and perry challenge about global warming. check it out, yeah, the book, it doesn't reach bookstores until tomorrow. revelations from dick cheney's memoir are causing plenty of controversy. in an exclusive interview with nbc, he spoke of his close relationship with secretary of defense donald rumsfeld. >> give me words to describe donald rumsfeld, what he was like. >> he's a man of great intensity at times. he cares very deeply about the country. in terms of working relationships, i have always felt he was the best boss i ever had, not because he was warm and fuzzy, but tough and demanding. i learned a great deal working with him. >> toughest boss you ever had? >> yes. >> best boss you ever had? >> yes. >> the book comes out after dick cheney goes after former colleagues. colin powell fires back saying he did not approve of cheney's choice of words saying the book would have washington exploding. powell responding to his criticism saying cheney took cheap shots. >> he's no kinder to your successor, condoleezza rice than they was to you. >> he's taken the same shots at condi. he's taking the same shots to george tenant and he is always indicated didn't always approve of what president bush was deciding. there's nothing wrong with saying you disagree, but it's not necessary to take these shots and try to pump a book up saying heads will be exploding. i think dick overshot the runway with that kind of comment. >> you know, john heilemann, nobody is more careful with their image than colin powell. are you surprised he ran out to a sunday show to defend himself because of a book cheney wrote? >> the shots are cheap. colin powell tried to undermine the administration not raising his concerns of the iraq war internally and taking them through secret channels to media. to argue powell was undermining is a severe charge to make against the cabinet secretary. >> people give dick cheney or whoever writes the book, they let them have their say, sit back and wait. this is a preemptive strike on colin powell's part. >> he is very, always tended to his image. he understands this book is going to get a lot of attention for a couple reasons. cheney was such a powerful vice president. in some ways, the degree of power he exercised and he remains a polarizing figure. this is a book that will get attention unlike any vice president in any of our memories for those two reasons. i think powell understands there's a real battle being fought here to shape the history over what the bush administration did and he does not want to let that charge go unanswered. >> we are talking dick cheney being one of the most divisive figures in american history, yet jeffrey sachs antd i were talking about the obama administrati administration. the obama administration followed him, tripled the number of troops in afghanistan, expanded drone attacks. they try to distance themselves from bush-cheney policy but we are now bombing countries that we haven't declared war with. dick cheney has won the day on policy. it was for his foreign policy he goes. >> i don't know if i would say he's won the day in terms of policy. if you look at the obama doctrine, it's not the same as the bush doctrine. we believe in freedom and independence, but we are not willing to do it alone. that's the trend. >> no, no, no. we are tripling the number of troops in afghanistan, everybody else is leaving. we are pulled into libya -- >> more than ever. >> we are pulled into libya and the french don't fight. the british run out of missiles in three days. we are fighting libya on our own. iraq, we are carrying that burden. we are bombing yemen. i guess -- they can say whatever they want to say but at the end of the day, their policies seem to be bush-cheney policies. >> you are right. one thing we have seen is the united states footprint has continued to grow under the obama administration. which technology has been altered. as far as the footprint, it's increased. one thing they are trying to realize is you are looking at iraq. they are having increasing violence. afghanistan has the highest suicide bombings. granted, it does not involve u.s. soldiers the amount of casualties in iraq is still as large as it has been for half a year. >> right. >> how is that the obama administration plans on bridging that gap is still very real. i take issue with the idea that dick cheney can come out and say the obama administration is taking what we had and setting the table. there have been shifts. >> a dirty word during bush administration was unilateralism yet it continues. it doesn't matter how we dress it up and we are bombing yemen on our own. we haven't declared war against yemen. we are bombing somalia. we haven't declared war agaips somalia. we have decided under the bush administration. the obama doctrine seems to be developed over the last two years. we can unilaterally drop bombs on any country when ever we want to drop bombs on them, whether we declared war or not. >> cheney was a relentless liar and misuser of intelligence. it's important, obviously, it's important because it got us into the biggest disaster this country has been into. with obama, it's drift. incredible drift. it's the same doctrine in a way. we are in regime change mode. we are saying to assad you have to go. we are thinking we are going to determine who leads middle eastern countries. we don't have the means to do it or the finances to do it. we are breaking apart with this foreign policy. to that, i agree with you. with cheney, you have to put him in a category. >> it makes you feel better to call dick cheney a liar. >> miserable. >> it makes you feel better to call him a liar and easier to admit that barack obama is actually more accessive on some fronts as far as unilateralism goes. the things that made him so low -- for instance, having cia guys going in and kicking down doors an water boarding them, it has been replaced now. how have we replaced it? grabbing a terrorist, pulling them out and water boarding them like we did to two or three people. we have now replaced that with the obama policy of dropping a drone missile on that household and killing 16, 17, 20 innocent people. >> or joe or kicking in the door and not water boarding them. >> blowing them away. >> it's what we have heard from many people on this show over the last months. what's really going on day-to-day in afghanistan, it's a very dirty war. >> that is the new policy of assassination. >> yeah. >> so, i'm sorry -- >> no, no, i'm not defending. i'm distinguishing that cheney was amazing in the lives and falsehoods that got us into iraq. with obama, everything we know was the business and administration led by the generals and without the kind of strategy that is with american power. >> i want to get pat to respond to that, can we? >> we can. pat, your input. i am stunned that the national media in the united states of america has remained silent over the past three years while barack obama has pushed a policy that has us bombing countries where war has not been declared and deciding to kill 15, 20 people to incinerate 3-year-old, 4-year-old children and 80-year-old grandmothers that happen to live in the same home as a terrorist as a target. somehow, this is a moralistic approach. you send in the united states troops at great risk, kick down doors, try to protect everybody inside the house. you grab the terror target, then bring them out and take them out of the country and then interrogate them. it's more moral to blow up their family and kill little children than it is to take them out and deprive them of sleep for a couple of weeks. >> you know, joe, if you take afghanistan, which we are talking about, barack obama tripled the american forces in afghanistan. he toughened up what they are doing. he is the drone president. we've done more predator and drone strikes in afghanistan and pakistan under barack obama than we did under george bush. there's no doubt about it. >> they take great pride in that. >> exactly. exactly. >> they don't tell you that. we are tougher on them. we are dropping more bombs indiscriminately and killing more innocent people because this is our approach to warfare. >> they are not lying about it. >> they are creating more terrorists with these kind of attacks when the innocent people are killed. they multiply the number of al qaeda when you kill innocent people because the families, nephews, fathers and sons because they say we are going to pay the americans back any way we can and that's why we are bombing all over that region. >> john. nobody talks about that. >> there's a small sliver of people on the left and libertarians who do. i have to say, you have been right about this before and are right now. those on the left is shocking. it points to this hypocrisy that people on the left, committed liberals give barack obama a pass whether it's 100% or 95% continuing the bush-cheney policies. it's amazing. >> it is amazing. do you remember back when the president decided not to, i guess there was some talk about possible impeachment against george w. bush and they said we are not going there and the left was enraged? i remember making the suggestion that barack obama can do that but four years from now, what if you showed the picture of the 4-year-old girl blown to pieces in the drone attack and put that up at the hague? in a country where the united states hadn't declared war. again, i think -- >> the real point of all this, i couldn't agree more with you and pat, it's just it doesn't work. >> it doesn't work. >> it's just dragging on. then we had this disastrous attack in nigeria. tragic. many people killed. it's spreading and diverted to new places. this is not a working approach. >> yeah. >> there's no con nettic solution to this. >> took out the number two in al qaeda. pointing that out. >> it's big news. >> it is big news. the question is this, that's great news. it's great that we got saddam hussein out. it would be great to get the taliban out. it's great if we are going to get gadhafi out. the question is, at what cost? at what cost? >> and what difference? >> what difference? >> a day or two after this, you have the u.n. -- ♪ welcome back to "morning joe," 25 past the hour. joining us now from washington, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown." >> i know what you are thinking -- >> looking good. >> what are you thinking? >> i don't know, what am i thinking? new york city had winds gusting yesterday. we are going to talk about new york for a long time. >> all new york. gosh. we got through it, didn't we? >> we did. i have very little of my tongue left, i have been biting it so much. in all fairness, this area of the country doesn't get it, joe, the way you and i grew up with it in miami and pensacola. when you have these, you never know what is going to happen. >> right. >> i understand it from 30,000 feet. from people that have gone through serious hurricanes in the gulf cost, in south florida, they are looking up going, what was this all about now? if they came up here and realized we have real trees up here in the northeast and they are not used to big winds. the trees and the buildings. hurricane andrew, if it came between pensacola and mobile it wouldn't have been multimillions. but many miami -- a category 2 hitting new york city would have been a nightmare. >> that's true. in miami, a power outage for a day or two. it's a matter of where it hits. this is new york city. you new yorkers, i don't know how you did it. >> we made it. >> on the other hand, it could have been very serious. >> chuck, let's do this. you have been off for a week. we have been off for a couple weeks. let's have fun this morning. i say have fun, not fun for you. >> not funny. >> let's talk about the university of miami. the program that i actually, for some strange reason, it's not the type of team that i would usually like. actually my dad new howard a little bit. >> an alabama man. >> yep. and a kentucky man. i always followed the 'canes. i understand they would not be as tough on them as five years ago. >> ncaa has their own issues here. when you peel back the onion, it's still an onion. this was not the president of the united states and athletic director with an actual payroll. keeping the payroll after the ncaa -- >> by the way chuck, i'm sorry. we are talking in shorthand. can you tell everybody what we are talking about? >> allegation of rogue booster talking prison suspensions. a lot of people know the miami part of the story. you have overhyped media speculation led by sports illustrated, once again, trying to end miami's football program for some reason. why this is an obsession of sports illustrated, i don't understand. >> now you are sounding defensive. >> i am. if you look at the story, a rogue booster went around the law even after the football coach asked him to stay away from the players, told the players to stay away from him. >> gave them money and cars. >> that was the problem. right. then he's giving money to the institution. at the same time, there's donna smiling as she's getting an oversized check from this rogue booster. so, it shows you the problem inside college sports right now. >> any trouble what so ever? >> she's the only person left that was there during this time. there are two a.d.s that are done. none of them were there. new basketball coach. none of them where there when it happened. the only person that was there is donna. i think she's concerned. i think there's some concern that, you know, there's going to be, you are always looking for a head to roll. if there's nobody left, the only person left is her. there's concern she could become a scapegoat. >> i know you have to run. we look forward to football season starting. >> i'm trying to look forward to it. >> i take it you'll cover this on "the daily rundown"? >> not so much. media black out on that. >> chuck, thank you. former white house economic adviser goolsbee joins us. cozy east coast getting hit hard. a town hit hard from the storm and the latest on the recovery efforts there. we'll be right back. it was created with the power of verizon 4g lte. introducing the lightning-fast, 10-inch samsung galaxy tab. stay up to date, entertain yourself, and enrich your knowledge like you've never imagined. only at verizon. built so you can rule the air. [ male announcer ] you'vand having a partnertains dlike northern trust -- one of the nation's largest wealth managers -- makes all the difference. our goals-based investment strategies are tailored to your needs and overseen by experts who seek to maximize opportunities while minimizing risk. after all, you don't climb a mountain just to sit at the top. you look around for other mountains to climb. ♪ expertise matters. find it at northern trust. you booked our room right? not yet, thanks for reminding me. wait, what? i have the hotels.com app so we can get a great deal even at the last minute. ah, well played sir. get the app. hotels.com.  yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins. fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory. i saw some of these news feeds upstairs of people sitting on the beach in asbury park. get the hell off the beach and get out. you are done. it's 4:30, you have maximized your tan. get off the beach. get in your car and get out of those areas. >> a state with a governor with style. you are done. >> get out. >> let's go connecticut. joining us from east haven, connecticut, anne thompson with a look at the damage there. ann. >> reporter: hi, mika. i am on the beach here on cozy beach road in new haven. the storm surge came up, broke through the seawall and went in about 75 feet and damaged some 40 homes along this coast. 25 of those homes are said to be uninhabitable. the good news here is that no one died and no one was injured. why is that? the people here had plenty of warning. they were evacuated saturday and the storm came in sunday. at 10:00 this morning, they are going to come down here and hear from local officials and tell them what is going to happen next. the damage here is extensive. throughout the state of connecticut this morning, they are dealing with power outages. that's really the biggest problem in the aftermath of irene. three quarter million people are out of power here. >> it will be a long time before they are restored. >> reporter: it's going to take a lot of time. connecticut has a lot of trees. this storm brought down a lot of trees. many of the trees fell on power lines. there have been a lot of house fires started by down power lines. one woman lost her life in a house fire. people are going to need to exercise sanctions. when i was driving up here this morning, i-95 is usually lit up. it was very, very dark. a lot of towns are out power this morning. >> anne thompson live in east haven, connecticut. thanks very much. >> thank you, ann. we appreciate it. >> when you were a local reporter -- >> i spent a lot of time on cozy beach road. >> we don't know why. >> stop! >> what was your sign off. >> i was the shoreline bureau chief. >> what did you say? >> i messed up. it was cold out. >> what did you say? >> i can't say it. >> you said live from the house? >> why did you have to tell everybody? >> what happened? they yank you off for a week or two, a seven second delay? >> no. mine wasn't intentional or foul mouthed like yours. >> live from the campaign trail. bob joins us. give us insight on how the base is responding to all these people. stay with us. you are watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. 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[ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. while i took refuge from the pollen that made me sneeze. but with 24-hour zyrtec®, i get prescription strength relief from my worst allergy symptoms. so lily and i are back on the road again. with zyrtec® i can love the air®. i don't know how much you have to do to get the attention of politicians. we've had an earthquake and a hurricane. start listening to me here. listen to the american people because the american people are roaring right now. because they know what needs to be done. >> all right. with us now from washington, political reporter from the national view, robert. how are you doing? >> great to see you joe. >> great to see you, too. you had gone out and been on the campaign trail for a very long time. let me get, i'm always fascinated not by the candidates but by people responding to the candidates. i asked john heilemann. i know you were probably more focused on the job at hand. let's begin with rick perry. he's always underestimated, i think for good reason, but he always wins. how are voters on the campaign trail responding to this guy whose rocketed to the top of the gop field in the polls? >> it was amazing to see him in action. i saw him in water lieu. he was sitting up front eating peach cobbler and chicken with the republicans there. then at the iowa state fair -- >> whoa, whoa, whoa. let me stop you quickly. i read a report on this. fascinating. this is the sort of thing you don't hear about on tv or read about a lot of times with these type of events. i understand that he came in, dove into the crowd, sat there from the beginning, shook everybody's hand and michele bachmann came in at the last second, gave her speech, stayed on stage and then left, didn't shake hands, is that right? >> pretty accurate. she was sitting on her bus like a rock star. it was surprising to a lot of republicans that rick perry comes to michele bachmann's hometown and she's in her bus. it didn't look good. republicans didn't like it in iowa. it fed into a vision of michele bachmann she's becoming too high maintenance, too much of a rock star. she's very talented in the hand-to-hand combat of politics and greeting voters. that stop in waterloo didn't help her. >> john hilsman, i can tell the candidates who are going to win. they are the ones who never sit down and eat. they go table-by-table shaking hands. rick perry is not too good to shake people's hands, hug them and listen to them. michele bachmann was in the bus because the lighting wasn't right. >> the same thing happened at the iowa state fair. perry spent hours at the fair, walked and talked to everybody he could meet. she showed up, they ushered her on, she gave a brief speech and she was ushered out. she is a bit of a diva. he is a much better retail candidate. if you think about it, she's much more disciplined candidate than people thought she would be. she is a national figure born on cable tv. she's not someone who's had to win statewide or has the kind of record perry has in republican primaries and general elections. he's stronger in that way than she is. >> pat, you have to throw yourself to the crowd. if you are going to run, you have to throw yourself out in the crowd. it's what perry does. >> he's a national political athlete. we talked earlier about the statements, you know, send him my love and ugly comment and things like that. and the ponzi scheme about social security. this appeals to grass roots folks. they like the language they can understand. it bothers folks who say this won't work in the general election, debate and things. for a primary campaign, perry is as good as i have seen out. >> let me ask about mitt romney. he had all the structure. he could have bought in 2008 and yet he couldn't carry through. is mitt romney connecting better with the base in 2012 or does he have a real problem? >> i have a different take than most people. most think romney is spooked by perry and he's going to come in and shake up the race. perry's entry is making romney a better candidate. he's fuming now. he's feisty. it's improving him as a candidate. it's making him nervous. i think you may see a tougher round at the reagan library debate knowing perry is right on his heels. >> i tell you, mika, the romney people like bachmann. you talk to them, they like the perry rise as well. it sharpens him and they like having somebody to play off on. >> i'm not comfortable taking michele bachman's place but her waiting on the bus is great by a bunch of guys. it's fabulous. you can jump into the crowd. if she jumps into the crowd and her lighting isn't right, she will say, oh, she doesn't look good. so, i'm sorry, there's a whole -- >> she is a great retail politician. she has the ability to dive into a crowd. she's done it before. something changed is all we are saying. she's more packaged. >> ed rollins keeping her on the bus saying hold on and wait to get out there. >> what about any other candidates run? does it seem like it was four years ago? >> he's picking up momentum. his second place ia straw poll is undermined. he's changing the debate. he's probably not going to win the primary, but he's making everyone talk about the fed in a way that perhaps pat buchanan did when he ran. he shook up the gop. not only in iowa where he did strongly, but new hampshire. he could cause romney a headache if he takes part of new hampshire making it a romney-perry margin slim. >> bob, thank you very much. it's great talking to you. we will see you very soon. >> thanks, joe. coming up, are you ready for football? we have the "morning joe" football frenzy with roger bennett coming up next. boy, you want goals, we have goals for a remarkable weekend. goals! all right. finally, there's a choice for my patients with an irregular heartbeat called atrial fibrillation, or afib, that's not caused by a heart valve problem. today we have pradaxa to reduce the risk of a stroke caused by a clot. in a clinical trial, pradaxa 150 mg reduced stroke risk 35% more than warfarin. and with pradaxa, there's no need for those regular blood tests. pradaxa is progress. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding, and seek immediate medical care for unexpected signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. pradaxa may increase your bleeding risk if you're 75 or older, have kidney problems or a bleeding condition, like stomach ulcers. or if you take aspirin products, nsaids, or blood thinners. tell your doctor about all medicines you take, any planned medical or dental procedures, and don't stop taking pradaxa without your doctor's approval, as stopping may increase your stroke risk. other side effects include indigestion, stomach pain, upset, or burning. if you have afib not caused by a heart valve problem, ask your doctor if pradaxa can reduce your risk of a stroke. [ doug ] i got to figure this out. i want to focus on innovation. but my data is doubling. my servers are maxed out. i need to think about something else when i run. [ male announcer ] with efficient i.t. solutions from dell, doug can shift up to 50% of his company's technology spend from operating costs to innovation. so his company runs better, and so does doug. dell. the power to do more. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement, if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. liberty mutual auto insurance. oh, it's that wonderful -- >> welcome back. it's espn's host of the soccer show. at 9:00 a.m. on sirius radio. >> roger. >> we've got to get moving right now. arsenal's in trouble. >> and arsenal, london had dark weekends, the bubonic plague, we'll live among them. they played manchester united. but right now, it's like watching nascar just for the crashes, they were obliterated. making it 2-0. wayne rooney. your favorite had a hair transplant. >> really? >> it's exploded and may look a little different next time you see me. he scored a hat trick. 8-2, man. he said futbol will only take off when a goal is scored. >> no doubt about it. and obviously the big story is arsenal. one of the great powers in english football, they are collapsed. >> they have not led a goal since 1896. >> exactly. >> one of the great minds in futbol, but they have more red cards than points. >> i think it would be a huge mistake. let's move on to man city. >> the other manchester team. this is meant to be a stern test also. it's starting to pay off. they have a 62-man squad, that's enormous, like a nuclear family in utah. they've played like a group of individuals. they're now playing like a group of really collective gelling team. this third goal in three games -- >> there for the first time. >> do you remember tattoo? >> the star of this game was -- there he is looks like a young arnold schwarzenegger -- >> you call him the lamp? >> i didn't call him that. where he's from, they call him the lamp post because he's really not that good. >> he scored four goals. >> i think he's going to put his feet up for the rest of the season. manchester city, are they contenders? >> no doubt about it. what about my reds? what about liverpool? they're looking pretty good. >> the boston red sox have thrown money at this team. they say we want a top four finish, this is the first stern test of the season against bolton, a nasty town, but a talented team. and i have to say they look pretty fine. the first gold by henderson, very young guy, hefty price tag. this is your guy. >> oh, my. >> charlie adams. i love charlie adams. >> we saw him last season. his chunky -- looks even more figure-hugging. you can't understand a word out of his mouth. >> i never know what you're saying. >> that's why you love me. >> adams is making things happen >> theback. they're looking absolutely fabulous. i'm sure you're enjoying every single. in this money game where there's no salary tap or draft to balance things out. there used to be a big four, i think this weekend one team getting obliterated 8-2, the other one 5-1, we've seen as a massive two, and there's a big two. >> i think we still have a big four, i just think it's a different four. >> we will see. congratulations, i'm sure as you saw this game, the new york flash became women's champions of america on saturday. >> wonderful! >> terrific! >> roger bennett! thank you so much. >> good to have you back. coming up next, the latest on hurricanes aftermath. plus lots more on "morning joe." corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins. fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory. handle more than 165 billion letters and packages a year. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer? millions? tens of millions? hundreds of millions? not a single cent. the united states postal service doesn't run on your tax dollars. it's funded solely by stamps and postage. brought to you by the men and women of the american postal workers union. ♪ you cannot prevent damages from these storms when they, you know, come in. but we can minimize risk of loss of life and safety. and as soon as that happens and that water moves back out and we'll start working with the states and local officials about what kind of damages and repairs need to take place. >> good morning, it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. >> welcome back to morning joe. back with us onset. peter alexander, and dr. jeffrey saks along with pat buchanan. millions of people are surveying the damage in the aftermath of hurricane irene after leaving its mark on most of the eastern sea board this weekend, the storm lost the tropical characteristics late last night as the center crossed the canadian border. as this morning's "usa today" puts it, irene was less than expected, but still a bruiser. at least 21 people died, including six in north carolina where irene made landfall saturday. the storm leaving downed trees, toppled power lines, and mangled awnings. millions are without power and in some states, it may take up weeks to restore it. flooding remains in many areas, especially in vermont where officials say epic flooding on the river is inundating part of the village of waterbury forcing them to move the operation center to burlington. some 50,000 people in that state are without power. president obama addressed the lingering threat from irene yesterday in a statement at the rose garden. >> many americans are still at serious risk of power outages and flooding. which could get worse in the coming days as rivers swell past their banks. so i want people to understand that this is not over. response and recovery efforts will be an ongoing operation and i urge americans in affected areas to continue to listen for the guidance and direction of their state and local officials. >> this is very different than a snowstorm. in a snowstorm you know you're risking for the most part being stuck somewhere. but you're not expecting projectiles. we're in a situation where we are having gusts of over 50 miles. that is projectile speed. and it's also a speed that brings limbs and trees down. >> the damage is not as severe as it was initially expected. the fact that we were successful in evacuating over 1 million people from the most affected areas was a preemptive measure that i am confident saved lives. >> the good news is, the worst is over. and we will soon move to restore and return mode. the tides heading towards low tide and as you all know the backside of a low pressure area comes up the east coast to the winds will force the waters away from the coast. so the dangers of flooding -- additional flooding have been eliminated and the existing flooding should start to go down. >> you know, this is -- i think this is very instructive for a lot of people in the northeast that have been following storms in the south. you always ask the question after katrina, why didn't they leave? right. well, people have been telling residents of new orleans since the 1930s, the 1940s that the big one was coming and you'd get all these warnings and they never came. and so for people along the gulf coast. you get warnings all the time, you pack up, you -- and i've got to say, even me, after a while, you hammer the plywood over every window for the 14th time in two or three years? okay, take it. i'm going to atlanta. so this happened and i heard a lot of people talking about how it was an overreaction. a lot of people in the media loved on saturday and sunday saying was this an overreaction? no, this is just -- it's the nature of the beast. >> yeah. >> and early on there was a great quote better to overprepare than underprepare. >> and all the local stations were on 24 hours a day. and there was a part of me that thought, look, you're talking about something that's coming over -- it's a community service. had it been bad, they would have been right in place. >> there will likely be ranked among the top ten expensive storms that hit. it's not going to be projectiles. new york city didn't see windows blown out of skyscrapers, but the flooding is going to cost a fortune for some of these places. >> it is. >> while we didn't see the winds, we saw -- >> water damage is, i believe it will be fairly epic in some areas because we had so much rain earlier. i think it was last weekend 10 inches in one day. there is nowhere for it to go. nowhere. >> a lot of people still stayed. good luck getting, you know, t getting people out. it's not going to happen. >> we were one block from the floods in the evacuation zone. and we were thinking, maybe we should go even though we're a block out, and then the -- >> come on. joe -- >> i was going with the joke. >> stay off of him now. nobody -- we haven't had any press releases saying yet that this is all because of global warming. >> s >> is it? >> whether it is or not, we're marching into the future. it's clear, it's happening all over the world. one disaster after another. it's ironic for me that while we have these hurricanes of this intensity on the east coast, texas is in the worst drought in its history, modern history right now. that's intensifying. climate's changing everywhere. and, you know, the denying continues until we're just going to be forced to live like this day in and day out. >> yep. >> what else do we have? >> let's get to the book. it doesn't reach bookstores until tomorrow, but new revelations from former vice president dick cheney's memoir are already causing controversy. in an exclusive interview, cheney reacts to the death of osama bin laden. >> i really thought it was a culmination of ten years of effort by a lot of very talented and capable and dedicated people. and i gave president obama credit for having sent the s.e.a.l. team in to capture and kill bin laden. >> were you bitter at all -- was it bittersweet or were you disappointed it hadn't happened on your watch? >> well, we would have liked to succeeded, but i think we laid the ground work for what ultimately happened. >> cheney also spoke about his close relationship with the secretary of defense donald rumsfeld. >> give me words to describe donald rumsfeld in a sentence if you had to say what he was like. >> he's a man of great intensity at times. he cares very deeply about the country. as i say in terms of working relationships, i've always felt he was the best boss i ever had. not because he was warm and fuzzy, but because he was very tough and demanding and i learned a great deal working for him. >> toughest boss you ever had? >> yes. >> best boss you ever had? >> yes. >> vice president cheney said his book would've "had heads exploding in washington." in an interview with cbs news, former bush secretary of state colin powell says he did not approve of cheney's choice of words. he responded saying cheney took quote cheap shots. the former vice president was unimpressed with mccain's campaign. saying the arizona senator added "nothing of substance." mccain responded to those comments in cheney's book saying "we have had differences as is typical for anyone in public life. i wish the vice president well, and that he remains in good health." >> hey, pat buchanan, any parallels that you can think of? first of all, i find it fascinating the vice president's book is going to grab as much attention as dick cheney's, which is what a substantial vice president he was historically. most vice presidents don't get book deals. people will be reading this. beyond that, can you think of any parallels where somebody this -- of this -- stature in washington that attacks others in his own administration? >> offhand, i can't think of it, joe. but look, this is dick cheney. this is his last political will and testament. he's going to go out saying exactly what he believes and he thought was right and wrong and let the chips fall where they may. so i disagree with george will who said he should apologize. if you don't feel you've got something to apologize for, you think you did the right thing in iraq even though i might not, don't apologize. so i sort of respect cheney for doing this and coming out and just laying it out as he sees it. >> john? >> look, i think if you're going to write a memoir, the worst thing is whether it's a presidential memoir or any of these people who serve in high positions or administrations if they write these bland whitewash memoirs that don't say what they think -- >> and look like they're written by lawyers. >> there's no value to history to get that kind of a whitewashed memoir. i'd much rather have the candor, whether it's a democrat or republican have their candid views, even if they're in some cases negative. what's the problem with the book. i have not read the book yet. some of the most fundamental questions that a lot of us have about cheney are left unanswered. and primarily the one of how this guy who was for a long time considered a fairly moderate republican became as conservative as he became. what that transformation -- w t what. >> if you need -- he doesn't need to write that. everybody that knows him knows that after 9/11 -- he said never again. he adopted the 1% solution, which we can debate. but he basically said this will never happen again and i'm going to do whatever it takes to stop it from happening again. >> and i think that's a reasonable interpretation. it would be great to hear dick cheney do a little bit more reflection in this book on that transformation. >> he'll be here, we'll ask him. >> jeffrey, it's fascinating. you look forward a decade and, of course, pat buchanan was talking he was against the war. a lot of people against the war. i know you were against the iraq war. but you look a decade later. and it's remarkable how much the middle east has been transformed with the spring. ten years from now, it's going to be, i'm sure, much different than it is right now. but talk about the tumultuous changes, some good, some bad, that were set loose by events of 2001. >> well, i think the most tumultuous event is the collapse of u.s. power in the world, actually. you know, ten years on, we are a failing power. we can barely keep our budget intact. we've spent trillions of dollars on this mistaken venture. the world is going on its way. it's quite interesting how every country in that region is recalibrating. the u.s., it's a complete preme. what do we do know? i think the big difference ten years on is how what was seen to be the u.s. power, we're now in deep crisis. and i think mr. cheney was one of the main culprits that got us there. >> you would say the same thing -- just for people watching -- you've been bitterly disappointed in what the obama administration has done since taking over from the bush/cheney team. >> it's been the same on both sides. we're doing regime change to this day, but we're spending an incredible amount of money. we're not accomplishing real u.s. purposes until this point. and we're weaker and weaker economically. i don't give either side much credit. i think cheney will go down in history as one of the most dangerous people -- >> certainly people that go to your cocktail parties. >> well, they've heard it before from me. but look what he did. in the oval office as vice president. led us into a completely disastrous war on phony premises and weakened the united states considerably in my opinion. >> to this day, we are still mired in another endless -- >> we're mired in iraq, afghanistan, yemen, though that's a secret war, somalia, we're mired in pakistan, throughout the whole region. >> all i will say is that if that is going to be the assessment of dick cheney, i'll get in trouble for saying this, that also has to be the assessment of barack obama who took many of dick cheney's policies and carried them forward. i don't understand the disconnect, not from you, but from other people who will say dick cheney, he's the worst person, barack obama is hope and change. you look at the extension of bush/cheney policies and in some cases on steroids, whether talking about tripling the number of troops in afghanistan, attacks in other countries. we're conducting secret wars in many more countries that we are -- that we haven't declared war against. the drone attacks, jeffrey, which you were talking about. it's absolutely shocking that the left is as quiet as they are. >> i think what you're saying is absolutely right. we've just expanded our military overreach throughout the region. we're not responding effectively to these big political changes underway. and i think we're more and more bogged down. and yes, the obama administration expanded afghanistan war, didn't contract it. we're still in iraq. i'm still predicting they're going to ask us quote unquote, we're going to agree to stay on there in iraq. we wanted those bases all along, and i think we're going to -- >> it's going on and on and on, and it's not only washington inc., it's war inc. i know people have missed me saying this day in and day out. i will say it again, pat. our problems economically are not disconnected from the fact that we are conducting more wars than ever before, secret wars, dropping bombs on countries that we don't even have war declared against. and it's going to drone on and on. and i don't think anybody in washington has the courage to stop it. and say, you know what? our real challenge is keeping up with the chinese economically, not bombing african countries. >> you know, joe, the regret is that the republican candidates out in the field are not calling for a dramatic new direction. father help me, but i agree with dr. jeffrey sachs. >> what's coming up next, mika? >> we'll talk to former white house economic adviser austan goolsbee about the president's upcoming jobs plan. also new developments out of libya where the convicted lockerbie bomber is reportedly in a coma and without medicine. we'll have the latest on his condition and whether he could now face extradition. >> i think he's faking it. >> yeah. okay. here's meteorologist jeff rainier getting a check on the forecast. jeff? >> thank you so much, mika. good morning to the both of you. we are still cleaning up from what was once hurricane irene. still millions without power. look at the rainfall foals. when you think about it, all of this rainfall happening in a 12-hour period. close to 7 inches there in new york city, and right now the storm has moved well off to the north. we're not dealing with irene today, but the residual effects remain as we are seeing wind gusts, the airports get going in new york, you may face slight delays in and throughout the northeast. and major river flooding. one of the major stories in the next three to four days. right now in the low 60s here from new york city down to washington, d.c. and today, a lot of blue sky and a little bit of cloud cover. well, your "morning joe" is brewed by starbucks. i've got my own finally here. so we're going to be back after this. male announcer: be kind to your eyes with transitions lenses. transitions adapt to changing light so you see your whole day comfortably and conveniently while protecting your eyes from the sun. ask your eyecare professional which transitions lenses are right for you. female announcer: are you a vsp member? your satisfaction with transitions lenses is guaranteed. visit specialoffers.vsp.com/ transitions or ask your vsp doctor. it's high time to make our floor look better and feel softer. ♪ how 'bout we start with the guaranteed low price on the carpet... the pad, and installation. let's get peace of mind for a lifetime. it all adds up to the lowest total price on our carpet project. guaranteed. and a room that looks better than we ever imagined. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. get 12 months special financing on carpet purchases when you use your home depot credit card. get 12 months special financing on carpet purchases got the mirrors all adjusted? you can see everything ok? just stay off the freeways, all right? i don't want you going out on those yet. and leave your phone in your purse, i don't want you texting. >> daddy... ok! ok, here you go. be careful. >> thanks dad. >> and call me--but not while you're driving. we knew this day was coming. that's why we bought a subaru. if you're worried about our bankruptcy, you can't solve the problem without saying enough is enough, we don't need spending trillions of dollars, being in 120, 130 countries, 878 bases around the world, is it making us safer? at the very time we're in afghanistan, these other countries trying to secure these areas so the oil will flow and oil is the big issue, oil is a big issue in libya, as well. what are the chinese doing? they're taking the money they have and they're investing. >> welcome back, 22 past the hour, joining us now from chicago is the former chairman of the white house council of economics -- >> yeah. >> oh, goodness gracious, he's the leisure suit of economic advisers. >> so, austan goolsbee, what's it like to be out? out of the fray? >> you're free! >> it's great. i'm back in the heartland. i'm back in the business school, university of chicago. and you see these young people that are out there. they want to change the world. they're not -- they're not put off by the events of last few years. it's pretty exciting. >> did you have any trouble transitioning? >> yeah. but trouble and enjoyment are often two sides of the same coin. >> i think that's really well put. >> i think it's well put too. >> so let's talk about the economy. >> all right. >> and all the challenges that it's had. there was a slight uptick earlier. but seems like we have natural disasters coming once a week these days. how is the economy doing? and what are the greatest challenges moving forward? >> you know, as i look at it, you don't got to be an expert on the data to know we're in a tough spot. i think the thing that's proved hard this time is when you come out of a recession, especially one as deep as the one we were in, if you can't just go back to what you were doing before it started, it's a lot tougher to get out of it. and we're not going to go back to building houses and consuming more than we were earning. we've got to shift to exports and business investment, and, you know, building up our competition internationally. and we are doing that, but it's just taking some time. 2010 we were growing at a pretty decent clip and actually had started adding jobs, but this year, you know, we've taken some heavy blows. i fear some of these -- some of these continuing disasters are going to continue to have a negative impact in the short run. >> yeah. >> i think that sort of the investing and shifting to industries of the future, that process is a slow one. but we've got to do that. what's the all teternative? >> austan, it's great to see you. you look like you've gotten some sleep for the first time in the last couple of years. the president, we all know the president's about to unveil his jobs agenda and a jobs bill of some kind when he gets back right after labor day. i'm curious to ask you. if you could -- if you had -- if the congress did not exist and you could abdicatioudicate thre policies, what would those three things be -- if you could dictate them? >> man, you reminded me why i had to get out of washington. they're always putting you on the spot. i'd say -- the moment has changed. i don't think going back to something like the recovery act, which the government did because we were -- the private sector was in freefall. there wasn't any alternative to the government. i think now we're in a slightly different moment. you'd be wanting to design things that are about leveraging the private sector and have the private sector do it. i'd say some kind of tax incentives for businesses to invest. some kind of tax incentives for working people, whether it's payroll tax cut or otherwise. and i continue to think things in the space of the educate innovate bill, that style of making american companies more competitive internationally. i'd say you'd pick sort of three in that space. and that might be infrastructure kind of things too. >> do you think the president would be better off trying to abdicate a bold program that has no chance of passing? or a more limited, modest set of proposals that actually might be able to pass? >> i, you know, there's a little bit of the devil's bargain in there. i hope we spend some time -- and i know the -- i haven't been in touch with them about exactly what they're going to put in the speech in a week or so, but i know that there are a bunch of things that it feels like both parties could agree on that wouldn't be small, that we actually could do that. and i hope that as we go forward, we won't get as i've said here before in the east german judge mentality in the olympics where the president bends over back ward, does a flip, and they still give him a 2 and they oppose anything he does. i think if we go for bolder, that's warranted by the conditions, but we can do that in a way, i think, that both parties could -- that we could agree on. >> pat -- pat buchanan? >> yeah, austan, krugman who writes for "new york times," urged that we move -- the fed should move, bernanke should move to induce an inflation rate of 4% to 6% saying this would, a, encourage borrowing at the same time, it would be a disinsenttive to hoarding cash, and induced inflation, and they're very open about it. what are your thoughts on that? >> well, you know, i just got back from this jackson hole fed conference where chairman bernanke was speaking. i think, look, if you were going to get too much inflation, you've got to be a little careful about that. as you know, pat, you know, if you go back in periods in this country where inflation started getting up high, there are a lot of collateral damages that we'd probably have to take into account. that said, the target inflation has been something around 2%, and we're not there. we're below it. the unemployment rate is at 9%. it seems like if this was a normal time, you'd be saying on the monetary side they ought to be cutting the interest rate. but the interest rate's already close to 0%. so that's where the difficulties of monetary expansion are. i think it'd be pretty controversial. you saw governor perry's reactions to the thought they would be printing money. i think we've got to be mindful of that. >> good morning, austan. i had a question. what impact do you think that international factors, such as european bank contagion, the slowdown in china is having on our employment picture in this country? and what exactly can we do about that? >> look. i think that's a great question. in my opinion, that's had a very significant negative impact on job growth so far this year. we were going pretty well through 2010. i think the economy added a little over 2 1/2 million jobs. when we slowed down this year, partly from what happened to manufacturing here. when you had all the parts shutdowns in japan from their tsunami and earthquake. but the european bank situation and the fear that's putting in to markets everywhere, but especially in the u.s., i think we should not underestimate the difficulties getting out of that. partly we're at the -- not the whims, but they've got to solve their own problems in europe. and there's not much we can do but force them to address their problems. >> peter alexander, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt. we're getting short of time. but peter alexander, just washed up from coney island and we wanted him to ask a question. >> my question to you is a simple one, which i think is, what is the number one obstacle to progress for this president? the next year? what is the number one obstacle for him to try to get this new jobs bill passed? >> i think the number one obstacle is to get the growth rate back up in the united states. and it's hard to do that because we can't just go back to what we were doing before. but we've absolutely got to get the growth rate up. when we're growing, we will be adding jobs. we've seen that equation still works. i think you raise the political stuff. and unfortunately, these to me are self-inflicted wounds that america's generated the last four or five months where we've been taking our eye off the ball of how do we grow and on to a bunch of partisan fighting and this kind of thing. and we've got to get out of that. getting the growth back up is critical for the next generation and for the people this year. i mean, that ought to be the number one priority. >> austan goolsbee, thanks very much. good luck to you. >> great seeing you. and you know, you're exactly right. it's not just our battle here, but also we're dependent on what's going on across the world. and europe is a mess right now. >> that's right. >> it has a real impact on us. coming up. new details on the lockerbie bomber's reported health and possible extradition. also, business before the bell with simon hobbs. (announcer) everything you need to stay balanced on long trips. residence inn. discover aveeno positively radiant tinted moisturizers with scientifically proven soy complex and natural minerals. give you sheer coverage instantly, then go on to even skin tone in four weeks. aveeno tinted moisturizers. a new development in libya this morning. al megrahi, the man convicted in panam flight 103 in scotland has been found in tripoli and is reportedly near death. his son confirming to nbc news that his father is in a coma and is in very critical condition. nbc has more from tripoli. >> reporter: he was the only person convicted for the 1988 bombing of panam flight 103 that killed passengers and crew over lockerbie, scotland. but two years after his release, megrahi is still alive. he is living here in this gated upscale community in tripoli. megrahi's brother spoke to the press gathered outside the house. the doctors, he said, are not allowing visitors, but cnn managed to capture these images showing someone believed to be megrahi hooked up to life support. the scottish government released megrahi in 2009, doctors saying he would soon die of cancer. at home he was greeted like a hero and met personally by gadhafi's son. now that the government is toppled, new york senators have asked the national transitional council to return the former officer to fully account for the attack that killed 189 americans. but with megrahi now possibly unresponsive and near death, the remaining questions about panam 103 may remain unanswered. >> that was nbc's stephanie gosk reporting from tripoli. scotland says this morning it has no plans to extradite al megrahi. >> where's gadhafi, by the way? did you run into each other? >> i don't know how he got there, but he's got these tunnels, i understand. one of them led to savannah -- >> all right. i'm going to business before the bell. cnbc's simon hobbs live at the new york stock exchange. simon? >> oh, we are open for business down here. and, in fact, you know, because the financial district is so low-lying, it's surprising little damage we've seen around here. the exchange is all open, nyse, open to be trading and the big houses, jpmorgan, citigroup, they're all open. some people might work from home today because some of the trains are not running, obviously. i guess you'll get more people up there than you'd guess. a lot of the insurance stocks will bounce today because of the cost of irene was not as bad as expected and they moved down in advance of that. home retailers should do well today. and you may see because of the high deductibles that people now have on their insurance policies, you may find that the back to school sector of the market does disproportionately badly because people may take the cash from that. i have good news for you, as well. >> really? >> yes. >> consumers spent far more than expected in the month of july. in fact, spending jumped 4.8%, the savings rate came down from 5.5% to 5%. which is an indication that ordinary americans felt much better about themselves and their prospects in july. remember, the big stock market fall towards the end of that month. but it's an indication that things may not be as bad in the general economy as we've assumed. all right, simon hobbs, good to see you. thank you very much. up next, we're going to talk to jamie gangel about her exclusive one-on-one interview with former vice president dick cheney. i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here -- to help come up with a plan and get you on the right path. i have more than a thousand fidelity experts working with me so that i can work one-on-one with you. it's your green line. but i'll be there every step of the way. call or come in and talk with us today. and i saw another store's ad for these crayons at a lower price. no problem -- i can match that right here. oops -- i don't have the ad. you don't need it. oh, what about a coupon for these pens? yeah. easy. why does the glue not stick to the glue stick? well, it's very complicated, but it has to do with oxygen. i knew that. [ male announcer ] we're so confident in our low prices every day on everything for back to school, we back it with our easy ad match guarantee. get this graphing calculator for just $95. save money. live better. walmart. whether it can be done safely and responsibly. at exxonmobil we know the answer is yes. when we design any well, the groundwater's protected by multiple layers of steel and cement. most wells are over a mile and a half deep so there's a tremendous amount of protective rock between the fracking operation and the groundwater. natural gas is critical to our future. at exxonmobil we recognize the challenges and how important it is to do this right. the first decade after 9/11 has the two longest wars of american history. this book is going to make a lot of people angry. >> there are going to be heads exploding all over washington, jane. >> you know that. >> yeah. >> in some ways, he's no kinder to your successor of condoleezza rice than he was to you. >> well, he's taking the same shots at condi with an almost condescending tone. and he's taking the same shots at george tenet and almost in some ways indicating he didn't always approve of what president bush was deciding. and there's nothing wrong with saying you disagree, but it's not necessary to take these kind of barbs and then try to pump a book up by saying heads will be exploding. i think dick overshot the runway. >> well, now, here we go, 43 past the hour, joining us now from washington, national correspondent for the "today" show, jamie gangel. i talked to you a couple of weeks ago, you were preparing for this interview for days and days and days while also helping me raise my children. very kind of you, thank you. did it go as you expected? >> you know, it really -- it really did. i think that this is -- this book should not be a surprise to anyone. this is dick cheney unapologetic giving his defense of what he feels went on and getting the last word. i think the biggest surprise, frankly, is that he wrote a book. this is a man who has always been known to be discreet, a man of few words, his friend alan simpson always said he would never write a book. it is a surprising thing. but as you can see, perhaps he's right. colin powell's reaction, heads are starting to explode around washington, guys. there are lighter things in the book, as well, including we'll show you part of the interview where he gives some advice to the incoming chief of staff rahm emanuel. >> during the transition to the obama white house, you apparently gave some very sage advice to the incoming chief of staff rahm emanuel. you told him -- >> well, we had a meeting convened by josh bolton, our chief of staff. of all the people who had previously held that job. at the meeting they went around the table and asked each person to give a crucial piece of advice to rahm who was about to take over. and when they got to me i said, look, rahm, first thing you've got to do is make sure you've got your vice president under control, which got a great laugh. >> how do you think he did with joe biden? >> well, i like joe. and, you know, we got along fine over the years. >> he's known for speaking out. >> he is. about everything. >> what is it with you vice presidents? >> well, some do, some don't. no, each vice president's unique. each set of circumstances is unique. the relationship you have with the principal. so i'm reluctant to judge my colleagues or those who have held the post before. i think you've got to cut them a little bit of slack. >> you know, jamie, it's interesting colin powell said to bob schieffer yesterday in a fascinating interview that he thought that dick cheney may have overshot the runway by suggesting that heads would explode. the mere fact that colin powell who protects his image i think in more -- in a more extreme way than anyone else i've known in washington, d.c. over the past 25 years would go on a sunday show to respond to things that he wrote about him, i think that would qualify for heads exploding. >> right. in fact, i think that's correct. and look, dick cheney is also very complimentary of colin powell and of condoleezza rice and george tenet in other ways, but he says these are -- he's giving both sides of the story. there are going to be things in there that are going to get people very upset. i think one of the things that will be most interesting and revealing is there are differences between how former president george bush describes events and how former vice president cheney describes events. for example, on the eve of the iraq war, president bush writes in his book that he looked around the oval office and said to his advisers let's go. in former vice president cheney's book, he writes that the president cleared the room and turned to his vice president and said what do you think we should do, dick? >> wow, that's kind of a big difference. >> i don't know how you split the difference. in the movie portrayal. >> it's a huge difference. now, you know, vice president cheney then goes on to say that, yes, but president bush made the decision. but you really do see in the book how much, at least in the first term, president bush relied on vice president cheney. that said, he's also very revealing about the second term. he talks about being cut out of meetings. he talks about when he was pushing for the u.s. to strike the syrian nuclear reactor. how in the oval office, same kind of meeting, the president then says -- turns with everybody there and says does anyone agree with the vice president? and not a single hand was raised. >> it really was pat buchanan, a tale of two administrations where dick cheney and donald rumsfeld had extraordinary power until the republicans were defeated in '06 and then condoleezza rice had her two or three years. >> i think cheney and rumsfeld were the most powerful duo almost i've ever seen. jamie, let me ask you about that very day of 9/11 when the president, you know, appeared to be flying around all over the country like a flying dutchman and dick cheney was in, i guess, this room deep inside the white house way down in the inner basement. how did he describe the situation of him and the president there? >> right. it's another place where you're going to see two differences. and we'll show that tonight, but there is no question that dick cheney always says he had the president's authority. but you see the book opens with a stunning chapter about 9/11. and dick cheney giving the shootdown order. it's a very different account from the way president bush wrote it in his book. >> well, certainly don't miss jamie's exclusive sit-down with former vice president cheney tonight at 10:00 on "dateline." you do a lot of these. do you get the pleasure of working with the same crew? >> no, but they're all wonderful. >> isn't it great? >> wonderful crew. >> beautifully done. jamie gangel, thank you very much. and this thursday, the vice president will be our guest on "morning joe." will i be here for that? >> we'll have to ask him. he brought cupcakes. >> he did. he did. >> we'll see if he does that again. >> more "morning joe" in just a minute. 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