Not. But this much we now know to be true its better with a democrat. The economy, that is. So says two economists at princeton university. Alan blinder and mark watson. Now, these are two of the Top Economists in the country. And in july they released a paper entitled president s and the u. S. Economy an economic exploration. Maybe the title doesnt scream 63page summer beach read material, but nerdland rejoice because we have the highlights. Among them, the u. S. Economy has grown faster and scored higher on many other Macro Economic metrics when the president of the United States is a democrat rather than a republican. The members tell the tale. From 1947 to 2012, the economy grew at an average annual rate of 4. 35 with a democrat in the oval office and 2. 54 with a republican. Whereas we can get into deficit spending versus supply side economics, stimulus versus austerity, social safety net versus wall street coddling, it turns out it may be just better to be lucky, you know, than to be good, so says blinder and watson. The data minors at box. Com explained the findings this way saying the economists essentially find that roughly laugh of the difference in growth rates can be chocked up to three or four factors. Democratic president s have historically been hurt less by oil shocks and have benefited more from productivity boones, favorable international conditions, and possibly higher consumer confidence. But in politics, a win is a win. And on the economy this week, president obama wanted to make clear one thing he is winning. You know, in my first term, if i had a press conference like this typically, everybodyd want to ask about the economy. And how come jobs wenchrent be created, how come the Housing Markets still bad. You know, why isnt it working, and you know what, what we did worked, and the economys better. I just love second term president obama. Come on, ask me about the ask me about the good stuff. Better to the tune of 209,000 jobs created in july. Revised figure from june of 298,000 jobs created. In fact, now sick straight months of job six straight months of job creation greater than 200,000. We are now in a six month streak with at least 200,000 new jobs each month. Thats the first time that has happened since 1997. Weve recovered faster and come farther from the recession than almost any other advanced country on earth. But wait, theres more. On wednesday, the u. S. Government announced that for the Second Quarter of 2014, gdp growth rate was 4 , handily beating analysts expectations. Chrysler, that u. S. Automaker saved by the obama administration, this week reported its best july since 2005 with sales rising by 20 . And Warren Buffetts berkshire hathaway, largely seen as a bellwether for the overall economy, soared to new heights announcing friday secondquarter profit of 41 with net income of 6. 4 billion. No wonder the president was in kind of a victory lap mood. Companies are investing, consumers are spending, american manufacturing, energy, technology, autos, all are ballparking. All right. Its a victory lap. Im going to need you to pump your brakes because there is always the potential that when theres a boom the next thing is a bust. And one word in particular is making its way back into the headlines recently that must give us pause. Sub prime. Those type of loans so prominent in housing ahead of the crash in 2007 may be seeing a comeback. And this time theyre in the auto market. A stunning investigation by the New York Times found that sub prime auto loans are on the rise. And theyre exhibiting predatory tendencies. According to the New York Times report, auto loans to people with tarnished credit have risen more than 130 in the five years since the immediate aftermath of the financial crisis with roughly one in four new auto loans last year going to borrowers considered sub prime. Times investigation found subproclaim auto loans can come with Interest Rates exceeding 23 . Loans were typically the size of the value of the used cars purchased. And such loans can thrust already vulnerable borrowers further into debt, even prop propelling some into bankruptcy. What is driving the number of sub prime loans . According to the report, some of the nations biggest banks and private equity firms are feeding the growth in subprime loans by taking money for investors. Like the mortgage crisis, many of the subprime loans are bun e bundled and sold as securities. Stay with me, because this is important and complicated to understand. A new article by the new yorke yorkers John Lancaster sbaned mortgages. The bank no longer gets money from the lending. Instead, it flows to the people who bought the mortgagebacked securities and the institution that lent the money no longer cares whether the bow rrower wi be able to pay it back. The premise that you lend money only to those who can repay it has been undermined. If youve been asking why would a lender make a loan that cant be paid back, doesnt that lose the money . The answer may be that the lender bundled the loan and sold it so they get paid before it defaults. What happened to the borrower, the person trying to buy the car in this case, becomes pretty irrelevant. The subprime loans are becoming increasingly large as a slice of all u. S. Auto loans. This graph from the New York Times shows the level of auto loans since 2006. And you see the dip during the housing crisis. The subsequent growth with the number of loans in 2013 higher than in 2006. Thats good for the economy except when you look at part of the bar that is shaded darker. Those are subprime loans, and their number has been growing in past years. The New York Times investigation found subprime auto lenders are loosening credit standards and focusing on the riskiest borrowers. Practices the paper says demonstrate that wall street is again taking on very risky investments just six years after the financial crisis. So that distinctive new car smell that the used car salesmen spray into every new vehicle so that you can feel like you got a good deal, well, that may actually be the foul odor of predatory lending. Joining me now is david k. Johnston, contributing editor at newsweek, and professor at Syracuse College of law. And senior fellow, Manhattan Institute and opinion editor at forbes. Nice to have you here. Thanks for having us. If we are back in the land potentially of subprime, lets go back to the fight that occurred around the crash which is who is at fault here bad borriers or bad lenders . Borrowers or band lenders . Im say bad lenders. But it goes back further. The big untold story is the degree to which Monetary Policy from the federal reserve, ben bernanke and janet yellen, have driven the situation. Your new yorker piece says why is wells fargo, say, able to package loans and sell them to other investors . Why would these investors buy these loans knowing that theyre subprime . The reason is that Interest Rates are so low, 0. 25 by the fed, that if inflation is 2 , as an nor, youre losing money by sitting on the cash. I feel like what you said to me im im unfair, i feel like what you said is, oh, these poor investors are basically, you know, starved for profit. Of course theyve got to make bad loans in order to get their money back. No. Not at all am i saying theyre poor. What im saying is the economic incentives that theyve been driven to have by the lending environment, the special environment, is driving them to seek higher risk loans, the catalyst of the process. And thats where i would agree that youre right about the effort to see higher loans. Car lending was exempt from the Consumer Protection acts. What were seeing is the junk bond guy who destroyed Great Companies and built a few good new ones. That is if you can borrow money at as little as a quarter percent, typically more like three, and lend to people at 23 and 30, this a very Good Business to be in no matter what. And notice people are typically being charged twice the actual value of the car. I told about a woman this happened to in my book, free lunch. Interest rates are often much higher, its now over 60 of used cars are being financed with these kinds of loans. This screams for can we need to actually have regulation. Right, because so i appreciate part of what youre saying, is okay, it is an incentive environment, right. And this is part of your point about regulation. How do we change the incentives in the environment when we create new regulations . So from my perspective, raising Interest Rates, which would further harm buyers, particularly those trying to get into a Housing Market where the each incremental increase is substantially larger than on an auto loan would be so harmful for buyers that it would be it would be bad for the economy even if it would yield more for investors. So i look at the exact opposite way. Okay. Whether we have low Interest Rates when we have low Interest Rates, were encouraging people to borrow money, perhaps more than their means. What thats doing is driving up in the Mortgage Market demand for gigantic mortgages and for the housing supply. What does that do . Housing prices are more expensive. It becomes more expensive to buy a home and more expensive to rent a home. That hasnt been whats happening in housing. The market is strong. The Housing Market is also, as american banker and others have shown, being manipulated. Theres a lot of withholding on the market. In most cities like new york, you cant withhold apartments because it artificially inflates prices. Theres a great deal of gameplaying going on because of the regulation. Its not like we dont know how to regulate banks, right . I teach the law of the ancient world. Weve been regulating banks and banking for 4,000 years. Its only somehow in the last 30 that weve gotten an idea that, oh, these people know what theyre doing, we dont need to regulate them. Yes, we do. I dont think ts than not in a way thats meaningful to protect the interest of the vast minority of americans. Dont have the right regulation. Particular in the question of cars, it seems that this question of Consumer Protection. In part because, you know, i get the argument that might say, well, Everyone Needs a home to live in, but not Everybody Needs a car. If you cant afford it, just dont buy one. Whether we look at the realities whether we look at the realities particularly of poor people being pushed fatherer and farther from where jobs are and a Public Infrastructure that is simply insufficient for moving workers to their jobs, i mean, dont cars become almost as necessi necessity . Couldnt we massively envelope in Public Infrastructure . A lot of poor people in washington, d. C. , could go to work on metro transit, but it doesnt open until 5 30 for office workers. People who need to be to work at 5 30 or 6 00 dont. These are Government Policies that we could change and be more efficient. In the car loan business, you know, theres enormous profit here. You take a 10,000 car, you sell it to someone who doesnt know the real value because theyre not sophisticated for 20, you charge 23 interest. And wells fargo, a Warren Buffett bank, a leader in this field, they told the woman i wrote about, were going to take your house. She was a homeowner. If you dont pay all this money, were going to take your house. In fact, hold on. We dont have a lot of time. But i want to listen so we dont miss this, there are real people involved. I want to listen to jonathan and marceline who purchased a car at a subprime loan who in the New York Times were featured. I want to take a quick listen to them. We had received a flayier in the mail flyer in the mail talking about you are approved for a loan. All i would have to do is basically show up, pick what car i wanted, and then be able to get a loan regardless of the fact if i went bankrupt or not. I know that when you take out loans and you pay off the loans on time, it does make you build your credit faster. Id be able to maybe buy a house one day. Thats what i was thinking. So i just i wanted to hear from them as we go out. Both of you, stick with me. Weve got much more on the economy, on labor, on real people, including also on congressman paul ryans poverty plan this morning. 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Sleep train your ticket to a better nights sleep this morning, the treatment continues in a special isolation room at Emory University hospital for the first of two american aide workers infected with the ebola virus. A plane carrying dr. Kent bratly landed yesterday at Dobbins Air Reserve base near atlanta, georgia. From there, dr. Brantly was transported to Emory University hospital. One of four facilities in the u. S. Equipped to handle the risks associated with treating and containing the deadly virus. As this video shows, dr. Brantly climbed out of the back of the ambulance with some assistance. Then incredibly, walked himself in to the hospital. He and his guide were covered head to toe in hooded b biocontaminant suits. And the 33yearold doctor is the first known ebola patient to have ever set foot in the United States or eastern the western hemisphere. The other infected aide worker, missionary nancy wrightbull is exepted to arrive for treatment in the next few days. In western africa, the situation continues to deteriorate with the deadly virus claiming the lives of at least 729 people and hundreds more still infected. After the break, labor had a big, big win this week. When folks think about what they get from alaska, they think salmon and energy. But the energy bp produces up here creates Something Else as well jobs all over america. Engineering and innovation jobs. Advanced Safety Systems technology. Shipping and manufacturing. Across the United States, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. When we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. Thats not a coincidence. Its one more part of our commitment to america. Lldy p k7 qo e d888888 888jj great rates for great rides. Geico motorcycle, see how much you could save. The Labor Movement received a big boost tuesday when the National Labor relations backward recalled that mcdonalds has a joint employer of the worker at its franchise operations. If the ruling holds, mcdonalds would be liable for labor and wage violations, and this could make it easier for fast food workers to unionize nationwide. This ruling comes after the nlrb invested charges that franchisees and mcdonalds violated the rights of employees as a result of Employee Participation in protests against the company. The general counsel of the nlrb released the following statement about their investigation the National Labor Relations Board office of the general counsel has had 181 cases involving mcdonalds filed since november, 2012. Of those cases, 68 were found to have no merit. 64 cases are currently pending investigation. And 43 cases have been found to have merit. Mcdonalds was not happy with the decision and is determined it fight. In an email to cnbc, the mcdonalds koerpgd said, mcdonalds will contest this allegation in the appropriate forum. Mcdonalds also believe that this decision changes the rules for thousands of Small Businesses and goes against decades of established law regarding the franchise model in the United States. Back at the table, jadavid k. N johns ton, and Peter Sudeman and the Michelle Martin, host at npr who is part of the identity and culture unit. Nice to have you all here. Thank you. David, is labor back with this ruling . Well, this isnt so much a ruling as an accusation under labor laws. The technical term is charge, but that suggests criminal, and its not. But this is very important. The the laws we have on this were written in the 30s for industrial corporations. We havent updated them for the franchise model. Mcdonalds exerts fantastic control over every franchisee. And the suggestion that they are not deeply involved in every aspect including the wages because of their flaun over Everything Else i think wont stand up to scrutiny. This is going to be fought for years. We need to update labor laws. Speaking of which, is mcdonalds right, though, that this suddenly challenges the notion of the franchise model . Or is it just about the model that is a mcdonalds one that says youre a franchisee, but you have to use this kind of catchup, these i mean, theres different ways to franchise, some of which have relatively more flexibility versus less. I think its too soon to know exactly what the implications of this are going to be. We dont have a huge amount of details from the nlrb on this yet. But i think its potentially a big blow to the franchise model in the United States. And i think that that is a real problem for Small Business owners and in particular for minorities and immigrant because minorities and immigrant own franchises at a much higher rate than they own other type of businesses. So this is a key pathway to entrepreneurship, to ownership, for minorities and immigrants, and thats if you take that away and you make it harder for them to get franchises or the franchise model goes away entirely, what you end up doing is putting more more power in the hands of a big corporation. In the hands of these corporate units rather than these Small Business owners. I appreciate the point here about the ways in which for example, the mcdonalds black owners and franchisee organization is one of the strongest Small Business ownership around. I actually do appreciate that as part of whats important about franchising. But i guess im surprised to think that paying a living wage would necessarily mean a a corporatization the power among corporations would be increasingly in just a few were talking about mcdonalds here. Did anybody else work at mcdonalds . Does anybody else here work at mcdonalds . I was a dominos driver. Did you work at snolds. His family who mcdonalds . I had family who did. I worked there in college. I closed tell you how long ago this was, you got five cents an hour more depending on how many skills that you acquired. So if you learned how to shake if you learned how to clean the shake machine, then you would get five cents an hour. If you closed the store, you got five cents an hour additional. I thought i would have some realworld experience with. This beth this. Both of are you right from my experience, youre taught how to do everything. A lot like the military. People say why are why is the military the most successfully integrated institution in the society, its because they dont keep it a secret how you succeed. I mean, everything is laid out, you make it very clear. I also think your point is right. And id like to make a broader point. The political right in this country is very uninterested in the dignity of persons. Unfortunately, i mean, theyre very uninterested it seems in the dignity of persons in this country, theyre interested in the dignity of persons overseas, it seems, when they are people that they relate to. But theyre not very interested in the dig nut of persons here, which is why theyre indifferent to issues like racial profiling. Seems that the political left is indifferent to the desire of people to acquire wealth. The fact is before the recession took hold, the groups that had the fastest rate of business formation were, as you know, its something you reported on, minorities and minority women in particular. Right. In part because you were so far down that the steepness of that curve its true. The political left needs to understand that people dont just want to survive, they want to stlithrive. They need to develop a language of understanding about wealth. Why is it that people are concerned about mega billionaires and their influence over Communication Networks . Theres no counterveiling force. Seems that the political left needs to get serious about the fact that people want to acquire wealth. People who want to acquire wealth are newcomers to the table. Thats what needs to be sorted out. Part of what you did of remind us that within a world, global community. Part of what im interested in is given that morlcdonalds is International Corporation that deals are labor laws and practices, how does mcdonalds operate in nations like paris, france, god help me, my inlaws had mcdonalds in paris. Horrifying. Yeah, how do they manage it where there are very different labor laws . This is a great point. At a subway or mcdonalds in europe it costs so much because of the labor laurs mandaws mand. We talk about the dignity of the people, Small Business owners. What about the people who work there . The Unemployment Rate in this country is 9. 8 for people who havent finished high school compared to 3. 1 for people with a college degree. These jobs are a gateway for those individuals. So if you shut down these thats going to happen. A lot of franchises will close. Not only they absolutely will. No, they wont. They will. I want to take a break and come back on this. I want to ask this when we come back if this were to move forward and you had unionization of fast food workers, would in fact franchises close, and what would the impact be . Os more exo School Savings at staples . The moms . Or the dads . With guaranteed low prices on colored pencils, its definitely the dads. Staples. Make more happen for less. Hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection . Yeah, we help with fraud protection. We monitor every purchase every day and alert you if anything looks unusual. Wow youre really looking out for us. We are. And if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, youre never held responsible. Just to be clear, you are saying frog protection right . Yeah, fraud protection. Frog protection. 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Now its quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. At legalzoom. Com we put the law on your side. Wear back trying to figure out if my inlaws are going to africa out because all of the freak out because all of the mcdonalds will close. Lets say, go all the way out with nlrb. Say there is a ruling, say we end one fast food worries able to unionize, and say they push for a 15 wage. How many mcdonalds franchises are closing, and why do you say thats unlikely to happen . First of all, i dont think it will be upheld in the courts. We have 32 years of presence in the judicial system and in nlrbs rulings in the past, in the 1980s, that suggest the franchise model does work. The franchisees do actually hire and fire people. They determine what the wage is, mcdonalds headquarters and im asking for the thought experience. Basically what all the evidence shows is that when you increase wage, you mandate increased wages, you have uni i unionization, the costs go up, and you hire less people. The combination of Cost Increases and less theres a great deal of Research Showing quite the opposite. That when wages go up, these are stimulatives for thats right. Theres a study of matched counties. This state, this state border each other, higher wage, no higher wage. Theres throw damage we can find whatsoever theres no damage we can find whatsoever. Prices adjust. Nobodys going from 7. 25 to 15 overnight. Pry will adjust, the costs youre not going to be paying 14 for a hamburger at mcdonalds. Workers will demand more money, fewer government services, they will be able to build better lives. You know, the question is, if we dont believe in having a minimum wage for standards, we have standards for airplane safety, car safety, food safety, but not wages . And isnt this true that isnt it true for those who want smaller government, the point davids making, in fact, people working at mcdonalds, at walmart, at a variety of low wage jobs especially on tip minimum are in circumstances where they are making use of s. N. A. P. , section 8, isnt it better to earn it as wages . All else being equal, yes. But with higher prices, specifically with mcdonalds, if you listen to what theyve told investors and what corporate has told investors the last couple of years, theyve been struggling to move their Customer Base off the dollar menu. That means people cannot afford to pay more than just a couple of dollars for food. So very marginal thats because of minimum wage. I mean, arent these things if you i mean, this i life that you said that, right . If in fact you are a Fast Food Restaurant for people who make minimum wage, then an increase in the minimum wage means the sale of your more expensive products, your 3 products instead of your 1 products, that is why it is stimulative to have a higher minimum wage. Here the crux of the problem. Were talking nonstop about wages. Were not talking about the cost of living. And thats the other part of the equation. You can do thing to make it less expensive to buy food, less expensive to buy clothes, less expensive to put a roof over your head. Those costs are going up because of Government Policies. Youre acting like theres no but to reduce the cost of living no, the easier solution it to reduce the amount of profit being undered at tearned at the i dont want to lower profit. They shouldnt earn it by having lower wages theres a cushion that exists. Were behaving as though theres a fixed pie, right . But the fact is theres already a cushion that exists because of these enormous there are fast fad operators who spend a higher amount of wages part of his argument is to increase the earned income tax credit and extend to other groups of people. Thats another way to address the same problem. I know he wouldnt like this term, but socializes the cost of elevating wages by distributing the cost across the labor pool, that system. So that is those are the only policy choices out there is either the minimum wage and keeping people at the low wages. You can do that. And Michelle Martin brought us where were going after the break which is to congressman paul ryans plan and the ways in which it is socialist . No. Whi, hows it going . Whatever youre looking for, start by testdriving nearly every make and model all in one place. Carmax. Start here. Congressman paul ryan is taughting his recently released antipoverty proposal that he thinks will help alleviate poverty in america. The proposal has an ambitious title, expanding opportunity in america. It would consolidate funding or streamlined support for 11 federal programs including the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program or s. N. A. P. , temporary aid for families for needy family, section 8 rental assistance, and the Childcare Development fund. The core part is something called the opportunity grant. States that opt in receive a single block of aid that they can determine how to use to tackle poverty. Congressman ryan insist itss not a traditional block grant which gives all the money to the states to oversee and use at their discretion. The biggest policy is what we call the opportunity grant. The opportunity grant gives states the ability to conduct innovative reforms and ways to getting people from welfare to work. It consolidates up to 11 programs into a single funding stream. Its not just a loose string block grant. The states have to do a few things. Block grants are nothing new. Theyve been around since the 1960s. Back in 1996, congress and then president bill clinton changed the aid to families with dependent children instead of keeping it a federal state partnership, it was made special the current temporary assistance for Needy Families Program and was given to states as the block grant. And while block grants may offer a certain level of flexibility for state, theres also the understandable concern on how to ensure accountability for spending and outcomes. So this proposal, lets start with the likelihood that it ever become law. You were saying about nlrb, any sense about what weather this beco about whether this becomes the things that govern the way the safety net is addressed . Theres a draft, theres no budget numbers. Its an attempt to get away there discussion about budget numbers and reframe the conversation. Especially on the right it how to reform poverty programs and government aid programs. And i dont think that this draft in or something that looks exactly like this is ever going to become law. I think the same with paul ryan, hes a policy entrepreneur. He can take the Republican Party and move the party. He did this with medicare. Hes done this with his other budget plans. This is an interesting effort to not just to reframe the conversation overall, but also to move his own party from thinking about how can we cut spending on everything to how can we make our spending better. You had can how can we serve People Better . I get the devolution from the federal to the State Government as making sense within the context of what i think of as american conservatism. What i dont get is the part of the plane where he imagines these individually the plan where he imagines these individually tailored life splans. Social worker, someone who is going to make this contract for the average person and will have benchmarks, and theyll will have to determine sort of, you know, when they meet these goals. That, david, sounds like a huge government program. I mean, maybe thats where the jobs will come from. They will hire poor people to be their own life coaches . Im not sure. Talk about infringing on your individual liblt here. And the underlie liblt heerte and the underlying notion. Im having a hard time reconciling the budget plan and the effort to refrain. Block grants, i read about a block grant once to help poor people. It built a hyatt hotel. Thats whats going to happen if we have this freedom to innova e innovate. Its going to be distorted. So this is he also is proposing weve seen it happen with the aca. I mean, it becomes so disport sudden one word, the other word is politicized. That the question of the choices that are made are not made fundamentally based on some sort of dispassionate policy analysis. Theyre made by people who are elected officials who are right. But politics is the means by which government happens. So thats or stops happening. I would like to say why cant we talk about the ideas for a minute . Part of the thing people decry about politics is it seems very small and that there are no ideas. And everybodys looking toward the next election, like looking toward the next quarterly profits. Todays crazy idea becomes tomorrows policy. Like electric cars or alternative fuels. So it seems to me it behooves people who have disappointed with the state of the politics who today people do offer ideas to at least consider those ideas. Seriously. One of the things that i found i agree with you about block grants. This is like i remember when i started covering politics like block grants, the first thing that i covered. This is old school reaganomics. The idea of reducing the paperwork burden on individuals is something that i think is important to consider. I think the political right is very you know, very obsessed with reducing the paperwork burden on businesses. Seems to be uninterested in the paperwork on individuals the burden on poor people, though but the idea is one that has to be addressed because nobody talks about it. The idea that people want you to get fingerprinted and want you to take a urine test to get food stamps. When middleclass people are out of food or they run in to a difficult their neighbors bring them food. Thats what happens. Or if they need, they get short at the end of the month, they access a personal credit line. When you have no money the idea of reducing the paperwork burden on individuals is important to even consider. But what the proposal does i want to be clear, what the proposal does is aim to set up a set of standards by which poor people will be held accountable to a set of things and, in fact, middleclass people are not. It is true that theres a safety net that exist for the middle class in friendship networks and work tlairelationships that don exist for poor people. But in order to take your mortgage Interest Deduction, you dont have to prove that your kid graduated from high school, right . Your kid can be failing in school and you still get your mortgage Interest Deduction which is a huge transfer to the middle class. When you pointed out the aca, this is the same Political Movement that didnt want to allow doctor to discuss peoples endoflife plans with them. Theres that piece of. I credit your point on this. The idea of allowing people the opportunity to get access to these things in a more efficient way fwheeds to needs to be cons. What if we went back to nixons idea and hand poor people cash . It turns out thats a very effective and useful method. The earned income tax credit does that. I think thats you have to qualify for it. The paul ryan plan expands, significantly expands the earned income tax credit. And to get back fundamentally, whats paul ryan trying to do hes trying to to say the debate on the left and right is spend more money, spend less money on projects. We spend lets not have the debate. Say were going to spend the same pot of money, but lets figure out how to spend it better. That discussion inner thatty should be lead ideological. We can say which programs work, which programs dont work . We dont spend 900 billion on Social Security and medicare thats what hes trying to do. To your point about how this is going to evolve in the future, this is the first inning. Youll see a healthy debate on the right on how to put this forward, whats going to work, whats not going to work, the president ial primary i would claim that its not the first inning. That in fact this is maybe this is overtime . We have actually been having that said. Thank you. Peter is coming back in our next hour. First, as working moms, michelle and i have a few things to discuss, next. I love to eat. I love hanging out with my friends. I have a great fit with my dentures. I love kiwis. Ive always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. Super poligrip free it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. Even wellfitting dentures let in food particles. Super poligrip is zinc free. With just a few dabs, its clinically proven to seal out more food particles so youre more comfortable and confident while you eat. Super poligrip free made the kiwi an enjoyable experience. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip. [ male announcer ] if you want to hear how their day went, serve manwich. And wait til they come up for air. [ laughs ] [ male announcer ] hold on. G . Goejit can help your business save money. [ laughs ] false. The truth is when you compare our Fastest Internet to the fastest dsl from the phone company, comcast business gives you more for your money. Why pay more for less . Call today for a low price on speeds up to 150mbps. And find out more about our twoyear price guarantee. Comcast business. Built for business. For seven years, Michelle Martin has host Michel Martin has showed examination of difficult, controversial, and missing issues that shape our lives and our world. I have long regarded her as an exemplar after which i model my own work. Tell me more may have aired the last episode friday, but Michel Martin has more to tell us. She has shared some of those thoughts in the National Journal essay published july 26th. In her article, what ive left unsaid, martin explores experiences women of color have when trying to balance work and family. Amen. Motivated by anne marie slaughters 2012 essay why women still cant have it all, martin tackles the unique complications women of color face in the elusive effort to have it all. And martin draws on her personal narrative of managing career and children and goes further, also exploring the struggles of women like shanesha taylor, a homeless mother arrested after leaving two of her kids in the car during a job interview. A South Carolina mom arrested for letting her 9yearold play alone in the park while she completed her shift at mcdonalds. In classic martin style, the piece allows read force give context to their own lives and forces them to move beyond the personal and grapple with the political. To tell us more is Michel Martin. Thank you, youre going to make me cry. I feel like i want to cry knowing that i wont have you on a daily basis anymore to listen to. It seems to me that so much of what you did on that show and in doing the piece, as well, is to make us listen to voices we typically wouldnt listen to. Thank you for that. Thats absolutely right. Also to draw connections. I mean, to draw connection. I mean, i am not one of these people who buys into the 18th century enlightenment that if we all had the same facts wed come to the same conclusions. I think we know thats not true. But trying to draw connections to people who may not have considered the ways in which their lives the struggles they have and how theyre connected to other peoples struggles, but ohio theyre differe but how theyre different. And to consider those things. Im not trying to be too grand, but this is my letter from birmingham jail. Im talking to colleagues, we meet up at starbucks, but they dont understand what brought me to that place and after i leave. Not just that, but other people. Thats the connection im trying to draw. I had such an amen moment about your piece when you write, its been my observation that minorities are more likely than whites to be involved with or take financial responsibility for people other their own or parents. It can include buying School Supplies or paying for tutoring to raising a child for an extended period of time. I was like, yes, amen, indeed. That notion that we are we find Natural Resources community thats are so underresourced means that were spending individual household resources in ways time, energy, money, love. That may not may be invisible to others. It is. This is one of the reasons that i was so glad to have the opportunity to have this piece. Also why im grateful for scholars like yourself who are bringing these issues to the fore and using language that people can understand like kinship circles. I saw a piece the other day in the online publication where somebody gang language to there which i had never heard before. It was kinship service. This is a fact. I understand that. This is where policy loops in to it. A lot of times our workplace policies people dont wanted what theyre doing. I had people dont understand what theyre doing. His a colleague very involved in the raising of her nephew. Does fmla cover it when you need to leave at 3 00 to pick up a never sue . Do people understand . Ive had people write and say, you know, i am behind in my career because im taking care two of elderly aunts. And there is no other family to do this. Thats what im doing. So can i get recognition for that . I also think this is an issue what about when the aunt isnt really your aunt . If your moms best friend whos been your aunt your whole youre right. That policy doesnt cover that. But that is those are the realities of life. Like i think you covered the woman in ohio who was arrested and sent to jail for selling her child to school in the district that she wasnt they said she was not allowed to go to. Well, the children live with her father. Their grandfather. He considered himself and she considered him a coparent. And they resided with him. Yet, she was prosecuted for this for sending her children to school in the district where he lived. And i note in that case because i talked to the School Superintendent in that case, that there were some 30 some people who were similarly investigated. The majority of whom were white and asian. She was the only one prosecuted which brings me to another aspect of the piece that i wanted to point out. The fact that the relationships that a lot of us have with institutions like Law Enforcement can be very different. So you need to Pay Attention to that. It seems to me that in your work, in your writing, you have a very clear focus on finding solutions. Its not just about you have the barber shop, but you dont let the guys who come from the barber shop and complain about. It this piece isnt man, its so hard for us brown girls to balance it. Thank you for saying that. I wanted to be clear. As i said in the piece, were not im not looking for pity. No, no. Guilt is not interesting to me because i dont have that it achieves anything. Just the complication autos how do you begin imagining how does rendering these complicated kinship networks for example visible help us to make better policy . This is where you know, in our previous segment, you know, talking to the other gentlemen, this is where id like us to be free in our imagining. The test of some of these issues, for example for me, the test of paul ryans seriousness about his Budget Proposal will be does he find a peace partner. Does he find somebody on the Progressive Left who shares his vision about reimagining prosecutor, and is he willing to work with people. This is why i believe in diverse panels. This is why i believe in diversity broadly defined. Thats what it requires to move forward on these issues. And i and it requires people to reimagine some of these issues in places where we get stuck. So thats the the first thing. I want to be clear. I didnt write this piece. Im not buying in to a particular strategy or solution. I think there are strategies on the left and right. What i dont like is the silence. I dont like the fact that we can pretend that the issue dont exist or that we are blind to them or work ourselves into grooves around these issues where we dont acknowledge the world as its really lived. I mean, i was grateful to have the opportunity to write this piece because i go to forum after forum. Like aim grate for annemarie slaughter writing her piece, all the conversation was about, well, how can i get my promotion, how can my daughter get what she want, how can i get who what i want when the point is how can we get more of what all of us want. You know, i think you have laid a challenge at the nerdland table which doesnt happen often. I feel like well have to revisit mr. Ryans plan. Totally free of politics. Just think about if i dont like the ideas, ought to be able to say what it is about the ideas that i dont like as opposed to just the politics. Youre in the ideas business. Go get it. I love that. Michel martin, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Coming up, attorney general eric older says were at a watershellwater watershed. Why he is pushing harder than ever and some of his most unlikely allies. Defiance is in our bones. Defiance never grows old. Citracal maximum. Easily absorbed calcium plus d. Beauty is bone deep. Fill their bowl with the meaty tastes theyre looking for, with friskies grillers. Tender meaty pieces and crunchy bites. In delicious chicken, beef, turkey, and garden veggie flavors. Friskies grillers. Wherever morning takes you, take along Nature Valley softbaked oatmeal squares. Oatmeal. Cinnamon. Softlybaked. Nature valley softbaked oatmeal squares. Welcome back. Im melissa harrisperry. We are at a watershed in the debate over how to reform our sentencing laws. That was what attorney general eric holder said friday at a gathering of criminal defense lawyers in philadelphia. Progress has been made in holders and others efforts to reform the practices that disproportionately incarcerate people of color and keep american prisons overcrowded. Two weeks ago, the United States Sentencing Commission agreed that judges should be able to retroactively apply new, more lenient sentencing guidelines to those already in prison on drugrelated charge. 46,000 prisoners could be eligible to have their sentences revised. Efforts are underway throughout the states to reduce prison populations. Not least of all because of the tightness of state budgets. Also stemming from a growing recognition that incarceration does not necessarily lady to less crime. Friday, holder warned against one of the newer tools some states are experimenting with using datadriven Risk Assessments to try to calculate the likelihood that a person will commit another crime in the future. The higher the risk, the longer the prison sentence. As you can imagine, sentencing defendants based on the statistical likelihood that they may create another crime in the future raises red flags. Attorney general holder said, by basing sentencing decisions on static factors and imutable characteristics like the defendants education level, socioeconomic background, or neighborhood, it may exacerbate unwarranted and unjust disparities that are already far too common in our criminal Justice System and in our society. With me at the table is cohost of more thans the cycle, and also a lawyer. Reverend vivian nixon, executive director of the college and Community Fellowship and cofounder of the education inside out coalition. And Peter Sudeman, editor at reason magazine and reason. Com. Nice to have you with us. Good morning. Ari, you have been thinking about these questions for a long time, but explicitly in your public work recently. Is holder on to something about the problems posed by large data as a basis for sentencing on the front end of the process . I think he is. He took pains in the spaech to make sure data in other fields can be used well, money ball stuff that we all say, okay, yeah, you can use numbers and see larger patterns. The point he makes that is valid is whenever we learn about pat americans criminology, we have a system that has to value each individual situation. And the idea that we are going to focus on a pattern of potential reoffense to deny someone their liberty under due process of law is highly problematic. We dont generally do precrime in the u. S. For good reason. We leave that to tom cruise and minority report because it is scary and so unjust. There was one exception under american law in the area of child sexual abuse and pedophilia, which still can be controversial. There is extended time there. And thats Something Special for preying on children. We generally say in most crimes you should be judged for what you did, and not what you may do. Which is why the attorney general then made a distinction between data driven assessment at the front end of the sentencing about, as he said, immutable characteristics as opposed to driven at the back end around parole and probation where you look at behaviors and say, oh, this person while in jail received their ged while incarcerated made these ten steps toward sorted of demonstrating their good citizenship within the incarcerated Community People who do that have a tendency t tton not to recidivate. Its also flawed because not everybody the nays ared have equal access to incarcerated have equal access to opportunities. Women in general have less access to programs inside of prison than men. Not completing the program may not be because you refuse it may not be available to you. One of the data factors thats widely considered during parole hearings is the nature of the crime, something that the individual can never change. I would argue that this whole Risk Assessment thing is being looked at backwards. I want to know will we ever consider what is the risk to the individual of being released into a community where there are still 45,000 individual collateral consequences to criminal conviction that theyll have to face upon release. What is the risk to the individual of being released back into a community where doing something mundane on the street, you may be choked to death. What is the risk to being black in america . These are the risks that i would like to say us assess as a nation. Interesting because as you ask that question, as you flip that, its similar to something ari asked. We were talking about paul ryans budget. I heard Michel Martin say can he find a partner on the left, the most Interesting Partnership now between the right and left is rand paul and cory booker, the senator thinking about this question. I want to show a little of aris offand ask but the responses we heard interview and ask you about the responses we heard. In your view, is the enforcement of the war on drugs race scientist. Well, i think it has a racial outcome is a better way to pete it. Do you think its accidentally racist or explicitly so . I think youre complicating this far more than it needs to be. Rand said it simply, this has a profound racially disparate impact, and we need to solve it using means by which we take a dumb, broken system, frankly, and make it work for every american. This system is broken. You dont have to call it black or white, racially impact use just got to do something about it. Do you have i mean, on the one hand, heres the liberal aspect finding Common Ground on the question of sentencing reform and drug policy reform. But theres still had race piece which which was put on the table that still seems difficult for us to tackle. So the specific proposal that rand paul and cory booker came out with recently is a poem to to basically say that employers cant take into account dont always have to take into account the criminal history for individuals. The ban of the box that weve seen in states. What that does, it institutionalizes forgiveness. Thats something that we dont talk about very much when it comes to policy and when it comes to politics. Everybody understands the power of personal forgiveness. Its a big thing in somebodys personal life. Especially when it comes to criminal just issues, you see this in in bankruptcy. Is this about paying off ones debt . America has an incredibly forgiving bankruptcy standard. One of the most forgiving standards in the developing world. In europe, they think the standard is crazy because it basically allows you to go to a judge and say, i cant pay this off. And the judge says, you cant . All right, okay. And so what we end up with is a system that forgives people and allows them to have a fresh start. And that is something that is hugely powerful when you aplay it systematically. And thats a big part of what rand paul is looking at. Your point that we have forgiving Bankruptcy Law and we have, you know, as you point out, 45 individual con scenes for having ever been incarcerated, i mean, was their answer, the answer both gave about race sufficient for you . It certainly felt to me like, well, theres a reason why Bankruptcy Law is more forgiving than criminal law. I thought their answer was fascinating, and that they are both doing more than most members of the senate on this issue. Yes. But the way, as you saw, theyre framing it, avoiding getting into whether its deliberately racist. My answer im not them, but my answer is there are parts of our enforcement of the drug war that are racist, and there are parts that are inadvertently unfair that may not seek to be racist. On the criminal background check example, we know there are uniform laws that are applied equally, requiring the people have to say that they have their rap sheet, right . Then we know that employers individually have discriminated based on information more against africanamericans than against others. I want to point out, great date showing that white men with a criminal record get more interviews and callbacks for jobs than black men without one. Stick with us. Much more i know, the commercial thing we have on this show. Everyone, hang on. Of course, were not going to separate this issue from the schooltoprison pipeline. Well come back, ill have a brief conversation a motha moth about her 3yearold getting suspended for things other children were reprimanded on. Yoplait. It is so good for everyones midnight cravings. water dripping and dont juspipes clanging ncisco. Visit tripadvisor san francisco. soothing sound of a shower with millions of reviews, tripadvisor makes any destination better. Television announcer mattress discounters 197 mattress sale 197 mattress sale is ending sunday. Bulldog mattress discounters 197 mattress Sale Television announcer that means sunday is your last chance to get a serta mattress any size, for just 197 each piece when you buy the complete set. Bulldog any size mattress twin, full, queen, or king for one low price and theyll deliver it free. Television announcer the 197 mattress sale. Bulldog oh boy Television Announcer . Ends sunday. Mattress discounters our next guest has received a lot of attention for a recent and quite powerful peace she wrote for the Washington Post headlined my son has been suspended five times. Hes 3. Jeannette powells two sons have been suspended from their preschool a total of eight times this year. And their mother has reason to believe it might have to do with race. Powell wrote, i blamed myself. My past. And i would have continued to blame myself had i not taken the boys to a Birthday Party for one of j. J. s classmates. One after another, white mothers confessed the trouble their children have gotten into. Some of the behavior was similar to j. J. s. Some was much worse. Most startling none of their children had been suspended. This is not an isolated incident. It is not a problem of perception, but a need problem of racial disparity. Here is attorney general eric holder in march. Africanamerican students made up one in five preschoolers enrolled during the 2011 2012 school year. They accounted for half of all preschool students who faced more than one outofschool suspension. Not acceptable. Joining me now from los angeles is jeannette powell, motivational speaker, author, and cofounder of the truth heals, a nonprofit for women and children affected by fatherlessness. Nice to have you this morning. Thank you for having me. Im sure that youve had many reactions as a result of you telling this story. Tell me what those reactions have been for the most part. I think that theyve been a combination of good and bad. Obviously ive had a lot of people that have been very, very supportive. I had lots of parents coming out and saying, you know what, im going through the exact same thing, and i dont know where to turn. But there have been some people who have really, really blamed me and said, you know, has nothing to to do with race. Its your kids. You have bad kids, and lets of things like that. Thats been the difficult part. Yeah. I completely get sort of how that happened. When youre telling an individual story, weve been just talking about whether or not we should use big data to make decisions. And so here you are telling an individual story. The easiest thing to do is to say this isnt about a system. This is just about your kids or your parenting or your school or your household. What makes you think that it is related to some bigger phenomenon . Well, the reason why i know that because like you read a few minutes ago, thats not what i initially thought. I tried to blame myself. I looked inward. At a certain point where youre meeting other parents who are not africanamerican, and theyre telling you that they could not believe that they even suspended at the preschool level because of what their children already had done, it gave me no choice but to think, well, whats really going on. We did reach out to the school for comment but did not hear back from them. Have you had a conversation with the school, and what are they saying in response to you . I have had several conversations with the school. And they werent looking at the issue which is what i had a big problem with. They were look at we dont want to call it suspension. We want to say they took a break. These are when they weresect home for one were sent home for oneday suspensions. Call it what you want. They said, i was asking, can you give me the data on how many suspensions youve had in 2014, and they were never able to give me that information. I tried to talk about what is their suspension policy because i want people to really think about what were saying here. Were saying at 3 and 4 years old, there is a reason for you to be suspended and sent home at 3 and 4. I wanting to to one of the thing you talked about in the piece, this this sense in your own life and then you wrote that you feel it beginning to happen in your sons lives of being labeled and accepting ones self as bad. That youre bad, problematic, troubled at the core. Is there a way this which preschool suspensions are creating on this for your boys . How are you trying to counter that as a parent . Absolutely. I mean, its the same as if you tell a kid they have a big head or theyre going to believe that, right . Its the same thing where when especially with my 3yearold because every tame he entered the school, the next day after being suspended, it wasnt a warm atmosphere. They werent saying good morning, it is, what are you going to do, hope you had a better day today. He started to feel that and didnt want to go school. My kids at home, they play school. For them not to want to be in the School Environment was disturbing to me. I kept continuously hearing them ask about what was going on, wondering did they have to go to school. They started to figure out, you know, if i act bad i dont have to go to school. Thats what it started to become. Jeannette powell in los angeles, california. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you. You took me to a core pain place with that big head comment. I really was teased a lot for the size of my head as a child. Up next, the city with the new controversial curfew plan. , they think salmon and energy. 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Thats why i recommend using polident. [ male announcer ] polident. Cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. Dont wait for awesome. Ident. Totinos pizza rolls. Gets you there in just 60 seconds. Weve been talking about sentencing reform, criminal Justice System, and in that case, the schooltoprison pipeline where we hear that mom saying that her experience is the white children in school were not suspended for the same things her children were. Do we begin criminalizing as early as 3 and 4 . I dont think theres any master plan to criminalize children at any certain age. I think that ts much more subtle than that. We have created this world where we have created the idea of the scary black man. Imagine the young people going to school to be educators, somewhere in the back of their mind they have this idea that black men are more likely to be criminals than other people. Theyre going in to our school systems, and theyre teaching little black boys. So subtly in the back of their minds, theyre liable to look at little black boys differently, be more fearful. And that comes out in this insidious ugly ways that lady to the schooltoprison pipeline which is a theres many stops starting with failed School Policies beginning withy in child left behind. Then the zero tolerance issues, then you have police in the hallways, then you want to segregate students into disciplinary type school situations, that leads into the juvenile systems and the schooltoprison pipeline. Its more insidious than the master plan to send all 3yearolds to prison. And you know, it need not be an intentional set of bad racially angst driven actors, it can be people with Good Intention thats generate racially disparate outcomes. Right, the policy can be uniform or potentially fair. It can be applied in a discriminatory way. Youre speaking to some of the biases that some people, not all educators, some may bring to the table. There is a larger policy framework, which is we have ten states in this country that try children in the adult court system. The redeem act, which you mentioned, showing the interview i did with rand paul and cory booker would try to push back on that which is interesting. There are many democracies that consider it completely inhumane that we would take children and try them as adults, theres a big reason why we make that separation. And beyond whether you think thats a good idea, whether you think its moral or not, theres the policy implication of taking people younger and younger and pushing them toward an adult system where they will clearly be hardened, less likely to be rehabilitated, much more likely to have higher residdicidivreci. If you take children and find them moldable and reform them rather than throwing them into an adult system where they are more likely to be victims inside the cell, more likely to be preyed upon, less likely to rehabilitate. Whether we look at these practices that can be meant even to be good for kids. The city of baltimore introduced a new harsher curfew. A curfew that will have young, 14 to 16, have to be in by 10 00 p. M. On the one hand, the mayor of baltimore is saying, look whos an africanamerican woman herself, saying this is to protect our children from the crime in the secretes. On the other hand, there is this high likelihood that you end up criminalizing kids for being out late. Turning a criminal activity from a kind of normal kid practice. Right. And as part of this, theyre setting up Community Centers where there are Police Officers there kind of keeping watch on the kids. Look, relative to putting these kids in jail, ill take this any day, but this is a bad idea. And its going to have bad consequences for two in particular. One is that its going to really mess up relations between teenagers and cops in the communities because teenagers theyre so good now. Yeah. Right. Even more so, teenager are going view cops as that guy whos going to pick me uft jup just f being out. Im not doing anything wrong, im on my block, im not doing anything wrong, and hes going to pick me up. The other thing, its going to be used by cops as a pretext to pick up kids who arent doing anything wrong. That kid looks suspicious, whatever that is kids doing. Its going to be used by cops that way. And thats going folks as bait relations. Its a ad bad relations. Its not something good for Community Cop relations. Is it because we dont know how to modify the police force . As we bring up the broken windows policy that we think contributed to the death of mr. Garner. As we look at dropping crime rate and aggressive policing in these cities, is it because we simply dont think we have any alternative for engaging with one another except through a criminal except through a legal system . Thats a good question. I think weve got come so far down this road that we cant remember a time when weve dealt with each other a different way. I mean, so im thinking about new york state and North Carolina being the only two states where you still throw children to the adult system. And new york state saying that every 16yearold is an adult, right . Where did we cross that line where we no longer dealt with children as children . I think its similar to the question where do we cross the line where we no longer dealt each other at one human being to another human being . Im wondering if the Community Centers were open beginning at 9 00 p. M. But it wasnt Police Officers there, like im wondering, do we even think of anything available for our public use other than our than our policinging . I would policing . I would pause that part of it is a goal of getting to some sort of perfect security state. Like when people say this is an analogy, not the same thing, but when people talk about terrorism and say, well, we should have zero terrorist attacks. Most of the world doesnt look it at that way. They would like to prevent them, but they dont have the idea that that what security encompasses. The idea of broken windows and that you have to go after the little stuff and that would make sure the big stuff doesnt happen, that mens were Walking Around to your point as potential criminals. If selling a cigarette or jaywalking or loitering or wearing baggy pants means you can be stopped, we can be stopped at any time, we put discretion at the individual officer over who gets stopped. When thats ugly, we have to go back to the policies at the root and say, you know, i dont want to be stopped and frisked for jaywalking. Because im caucasian, its unlikely i will be. Its unfair period. Thank you to peter, ari, and vivian. Ari and vivian are coming back. Want to point everyone to aris series presumed guilty. You can find it on msnbc. Com. Imagine being sentenced to life in prison without parole at 15 years old for armed robbery. Coming up, one young mans quest for a second chance. Honey, look i got one to land. Uhhuh. vo theres good more. Honey, look at all these smart rewards points verizon just gave me. Ooh, you got a buddy. Im like a statue. I just signed up and, boom, all these points. And theres notsogood more. Youre a big guy. Oh no. Get the good more with Verizon Smart rewards and rack up points to use towards the things you really want. Get the lg g3 for 199. 99. Say hi rudy. [ barks ] [ chuckles ] id do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy. Thats why im so excited about these new milkbone brushing chews. Whoa, im not the only one. Its a brilliant new way to take care of his teeth. Clinically proven as effective as brushing. Ok, here you go. Have you ever seen a dog brush his own teeth . The twist and nub design cleans all the way down to the gum line, even reaching the back teeth. They taste like a treat, but they clean like a toothbrush. Nothing says you care like a milkbone brushing chew. [ barks ] in 2010 the Supreme Court ruled in a case that except in the case of murder defendants under 18 could not be sentenced to life without parole. As a result, 129 inmate who were sentenced as juveniles to life sentences without the possibility of parole would have a chance to at least make their case for release. One of those prisoners is Kenneth Young who at age 15 received four consecutive life sentences for a series of armed robberies. The new pov documentary 15 to life, follows him as he makes his case for a new sentence. Kenneth was 14 years old at the time of the first offense. Over the counter, in your face, guns to the head. Im not sure if Kenneth Young knew the consequences, frankly. At that age, they really dont. Did you see kenneth coming out . I dont know. The judge has total discretion. Total discretion. 15 to life, will have the premiere on the pov series tomorrow at 10 00 p. M. On pbs. Joining subcommittee nadine i failed. Pecwenieza director and producer. Shes also at the table back with reverend vivian nixon, executive director of college and Community Fellowship. I watched the film last night. It is horrifying and incredibly important. I want to hear a little bit from kenneth so that people will have a sense of how extraordinary this young man is despite the extremely difficult circumstances he finds himself in. Lets take a listen to him talk about the 11 years he spent in jail. I have been incarcerated for 11 years, and i have taken advantage of every opportunity available for me in prison to better myself. I have been a model prisoner while ive been incarcerated. I have been in educational programs, i have taken care of elderly inmates, i have worked with mental inmates. Also i have learned that the condition of your mind creates a condition of your ways. So i strive every day for good standards. I am no longer the same person i used to be. So are kids different . Well, the u. S. Supreme court has said they are different. And two rulings in the last four years theyve said that children have a remarkable capacity for change and rehabilitation. Thats why they have to be given an opportunity for release. And juvenile life without parole, the use of that punishment, has been severely restricted in the last few years. And do you think that kenneth particular is different among children in other words, do you see something in him, having spent time making this film with him, that is unique . Hes demonstrated that capacity to change. Hes definitely not the same person that he was at 14 and 15 when he committed these crimes with someone who is ten years older than him, and his mothers drug dealer at the time. His circumstances were unique, and most of these children, 60 that have a juvenile life without parole sentence, dont have access to reform programs, to rehabilitation or education programs. Kenneth pursued that on his own. To his credit, he has changed, highs selfrehabilitate hes selfrehabilitated. Yet we hear that despite the fact the Supreme Court told us children are different, despite the fact that kenneth himself appears to be different in his willingness to engage in finding a way to make some meaning out of a life that has been as much in prison now as it was before, here is what we hear from the judge talking about the certificates and diplomas that this young man has received. Your certificates and diplomas that you provided to me in your sentencing miranda, i appreciate that. Congratulations to you. Do you know what this demonstrates to this court it demonstrates that the department of corrections and your particular incarceration was appropriate and effective. Response . I have a particular spot that gets touched by several of the themes were talking about today. One theme being 2,500 young people incarcerated across this country serving life without parole, which i think is a moral injustice which matches no other. And the thing that people cant change redemption is a personal theme of mine. I spent years in prison, and i know that redemption is real. And the poblssibility of transformation is real. I think this judges words that your incarceration is necessary speaks to his own inability to see redemption as a real possibility. To see transformation as something that should liberate someone rather than keep them incarcerated. Thats his own cross it bear if you want to say that. I dont know where wed be as a nation if we cant get beyond this. There needs to be some kind of remedy in the states that are not abiding by the Supreme Court ruling it free these ruling to free these young people who have not committed murder, who are serving juvenile life without parole. There needs to be a federal remedy to get these kids out of these facilities. I dont think any child should have serving life without parole no matter what theyve done. In the case that theres a Supreme Court ruling saying that this is wrong, weve got to get these kids out of these facilities. I think its its important, i dont want folks to miss what you were saying there if they havent seen the film yet. He committed the crimes with someone ten years older than him. No one was killed in the commission of the crimes. Theres even a moment in which he has a maybe potentially positive role despite the negativity of being involved in an armed robbery. Yet this individual judge has all discretion. Is there a set of policy remedies possible for someone like kenneth . Well, because of the u. S. Supreme Court Decision now and it is affecting more than justice children who have committed nonhomicide crimes, so even children who committed murder, the u. S. Supreme court said they have to be given the possibility of release based on demonstrated rehabilitation. The remedy coming down is through the legislatures. 29 states across the country are looking at reviewing sentencing laws and making sure that kids have the opportunity for review if theyve been convicted of these serious crimes. I kept thinking through without, what w. H. O. Is held accountable who is held accountable for the level of abuse and neglect for this kid, and its not about wanting to incarcerate his mother for her bad acts, but the system allowed this child to fall through and ended up in the hands of this older gentleman who leads him to this bad place. As we go, thank you, for the piece, thank you, reverend, for being here. As we go, i dont want you to miss this. I want to leave listening to the judge tell kenneth despite what he has done he simply does not deserve to be released. If i follow your attorneys request to release you today, i might as well give you a key to the city, a parade, and dinner at burnes. That would be an award, a gift that you will not get it from this court. You will not get it because you do not deserve it. Thank you. The documentary airs tomorrow on pbs. [ yodeling plays ] worst morning ever. [ angelic music plays ] toaster strudel best morning ever [ hans ] warm, flaky, gooey. Toaster strudel out for drinks, eats. I have very well fitting dentures. I like to eat a lot of fruits. Love them all. The seal i get with the super poligrip free keeps the seeds from getting up underneath. Even wellfitting dentures let in food particles. Super poligrip is zinc free. With just a few dabs, its clinically proven to seal out more food particles so youre more comfortable and confident while you eat. A lot of things going on in my life and the last thing i want to be thinking about is my dentures. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip. Okay, nerdland, which do you want first . Good news or bad news . Lets start with the bad which manes starting in texas where governor means starting in texas where governor perry once stated that banning abortion was his goal. Last year as a step toward that goal, governor perry signed house bill 2 which con deigned some of the increasingly contained some of the increasingly common provisions that target abortion providers with unduly harsh and medically unnecessary restrictions. According to a soontobepublished study, theres been a 13 decrease in the abortion rate in texas compared to last year. Its not clear if that is the result of less availability or reduced need for termination services. Heres the really bad news, whole womans health, a clinic run by guest amy heckstrom miller announced thursday that it will close its doors in austin. It is talking about challenging hb 2 in hopes of saving the location. And there was good news from mississippi of all places. This week the fifth Circuit Court of appeal ruled in favor of the Jackson Womens Health organization. The only place where a woman can obtain a legal pregnancy termination in the entire state. For now, the fifth circuit ruling allows this little pink clinic to stay true to the sign on its gate. This clinic stays open. The court determined that a law intended to close the clinic was unconstitutional. Just next door, though, republican lawmakers, governor bobby jindal, and a wave of disruptive protesters are trying to close down clinics in louisiana. And while the law and the protesters target abortion clinics, maybe its because they dont know what these socalled abortion clinics actually do. Well talk about that next. Thank you daddy for defending our country. Thank you for your sacrifice and thank you for your bravery. Thank you colonel. Thank you daddy. Military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa Auto Insurance can be one of them. If youre a current or former military member or their family, get an Auto Insurance quote and see why 92 of our members plan to stay for life. [music] defiance is in our bones. Defiance never grows old. Citracal maximum. Easily absorbed calcium plus d. Beauty is bone deep. We have begun our time together of collective prayer and meditation, we were lifting up the beloveds whom we lost in our community the past two weeks. In a moment of silence, a voice came. We were all stunned. Suddenly they realized, wait, thats not our script. So kind of in the midst of that silence, people started standing up and pulling off their button down shirts and revealing their tshirts of affiliation. And just being loud and disruptive and crying out malice and spewing hate. That was reverend deanna vanderver, at the First Universalist Church in new orleans, telling the Rachel Maddow show about antiabortion protests that interrupted a service last week. First u. U. Is where my mother of a member and often attended during her years in new orleans. That church hosted the groundbreaking ceremony for the new planned parenthood being constructed on the same street a few blocks away. The planned parenthood isnt slated to open until early 2015. Last month, protest demonstrations began, led by operation save america which grut of the same Operation Rescue grew out of the same Operation Rescue that gained infamy 20 years ago during kansas socalled summer of mercy. According to the times picayune, the organization said it was encouraged by a new louisiana law that some say will likely shut down three of the five freestanding medical facilities in the state that perform abortions. The new planned parenthood location is not solely an abortion clinic. Indeed, it will be replacing an existing smaller planned parenthood clinic which doesntc which doesnt even provide abortions. The new location will provide health care for lowincome expectant mothers, health care for sufferers and cervical and Breast Cancer screenings. They are opposing a medical facility that delivers Critical Health care to women in the community. Back with me is ari melber, could host of the cycle and irin camron. Is there something in our language that is given to us by opponents of reproductive rights . Well, a great victory of the antichoice movement has been to separate abortion. The fact that these buildings are standalone buildings allows them a place to target. It would be harder for them to surround them and pierce these now falling buffer zones that exist. Theres that aspect of it and because womens rights advocates have said well provide the care that nobody else will, part of it has to do with the reality teas of how segregated abortion has been and abortion is part of a ranging Reproductive Health services that women will have throughout their lives which might include having children, contraception, having a hysterectomy of which abortion is only one and, on the other hand, not apologizing for these clinics providing abortion and not being afraid to say abortion, too. That notion of being scared, im thinking of the little pink clinic in mississippi that had a big victory and im wondering how that victory is given that in part its almost exclusively a provider of abortion. Thats what it exists to do in the entire state of mississippi. How important is it of a legal matter that its allowed to stay open and stand . I think its important as a legal matter because it creates the foundation to say that these things can operate as they are being restricted legislatively and in some Court Decisions. I echo the point. The whole idea of stigmatizing this practice, which is, lets not forget, a constitutional right at least as of now. Protected. And so whether you like that you have a right to bear arms or not, usually in most other instances, when the court makes these kinds of rights and decisions, everyone gets in line. This is not always antilegal because many of the ways that people are peering and our legal and our courts, its a very aggressive rear guard approach to undermine something that the court says should be our right. When you make that comparison to Second Amendment rights, in part because im thinking about how many places you can carry your gun now and how few places you can access abortion. I was thinking about this language of calling First Unitarian Church a sanctuary and language seems like it matters so much. And again, im still concerned that even as we want to claim abortion as something that we can say, that we have a right to, we also, nonetheless, want to expand that language so were talking about reproductive rights and justice whether or not someone terminates a pregnancy or whether someone has a right to get pregnant or any of those things. The way the Supreme Court has justified this right, it doesnt include access. For a woman in mississippi, it stays open. In texas, they have decided shutting down more than half of the clinics is not an undue burden because the Supreme Court said as said you can still drive four hours, you can go fast. It sort of shows the narrowness and lack of sort of consideration to justice to women and reality to say thats enough. You have all of these courts interpreting state laws that are meant to shut down access and then you have a reality of a persons life who lives somewhere next to an immigration checkpoint, where two clinics have shut down. What good is that on paper if a person cant access it . Moving away from the existing rights structure that we have and thinking about, what does access look like . What does justice look like . And that includes that whole spectrum. So as weve talked about language and access, part of what we have to think about is a social movement. Im wondering, achlri, there is theory that as things get worse, the movements emerge. My mom used to be a member at the First Unitarian Church, people are riled up and are ready to go in maybe ways that they had not previously been. We will see a more reproductive movement . I think when people see the attacks on contraceptive access, that has galvanized people. People have said i cant believe they are coming for our contraception. The nonprofit organizations following hobby lobby, including notre dame. Also, the urge to reclassify contraception as abortion, i think people really see through that. I think that as well. Ive looked to irin because shes been on the ground so much. I have to cut you guys off. Roe v. Wade was a political gift to republicans and destroying it in a practical way may bring back the backlash that youre talking about. My producer is saying, shut ari down. Thats because the tv show is over. Thank you to ari and irin. Read irins new piece on what could be the next hobby lobby. I have to get off right now. See you next saturday at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. Hi, alex. I feel like i have to say im sorry to irin. No, no. Its all about me now. This is what were talking about, everybody. A fligrightening moment on the court and a freak accident. Todays question is, can he recover to play pro again . There we go. Republicans in washington and the lawsuit they want to pursue against the president. And what is behind the strange toxin polluting toledos water supply . And a new hbo special. Dont go anywhere. Ill be right back. One little smile. One little laugh. Honey bunny. laughter we would do anything for her. My name is kim bryant and my husband and i made a will on legalzoom. It was really easy to do. baby noise. Laughter we created legalzoom to help you take care of the ones you love. Go to legalzoom. Com today and complete your will in minutes. At legalzoom. Com we put the law on your side. Then youll know how uncomfortable it can be. [ crickets chirping ] but did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath . [ exhales deeply ] [ male announcer ] well there is biotene. Specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants, biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy, too. [ applause ] biotene for people who suffer from dry mouth. Biotene miles doesnt need to wander into the wild for the hunt. 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Residents in ohios fourth largest city have no Drinking Water today and its forced people to raid grocery stores. Well talk about what is
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