Transcripts For MSNBCW Meet The Press 20201207

Coronavirus response coordinator. Plus, after months ofus discord, help o from congress m finally be on the way. There is momentum. There is momentum. Compromise is within reach. But it be enough . Democratic senator joe manchin of West Virginia joins me. And President Trump holds a rally for the two republican senators in georgias january runoff. They cheated andor they rigg our president ial election, but we will still win it. Focusing more on his own personaln grievances than in helping the actual candidates. It has to stop. Someones going to get hurt. Someones going to get shot. Someones going to get killed. Ill talkme to georgia Elections Official Gabriel Sterling. Joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news Political Correspondent steve kornacki, kimberly atkins, senior opinion writer for the boston globe, Reuters White House correspondent jeff mason, and Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise institute. Welcome to sunday. Its meet the press. Announcer from nbc news in washington, the longest running showe in television history. This is meet the press with chuck todd. I good sunday morning. Consider what has happenedg. Ov the past week. Cor hospitalizations in the u. S. For covid19 exceeded 100,000 for the first time. Daily cases of covid19 exceede 200,000 for the first time, and the second, and the third, and the fourth. The confirmed daily death toll fromy covid19 exceeded 2,000 r the second time, and the third, and the fourth, and the fifth, and the fisixth. This past week, covid was the leading cause of death in america. If only that were the worst of it. Robert redfield, the head of the centers for disease control, says december, january, and february will be the most difficult time in the Public Health history of this nation. I do think, unfortunately, before we see february, we could be close to 450,000 americans have died from this virus. Amid this exploding crisis, President Trump gave what he said p was, quote, maybe the mo important speech ive ever made. It was not about covid. It was a 46minute attack on american democracy. It was filled with debunked claims, false assertions and outright lies,se charging that e democrats rigged the election to steal his presidency. That the president has chosen to ignore the worst Health Crisis weve faced in 100 years almost doesnt matter anymore. What matters is thatt both the good news the emergence of multiple vaccines and the bad news the rising case in death counts are accelerating. But until those vaccines get here, overworked Health Care Workers across the country are fighting a rktwopronged battle to save lives, and more importantly, to convince skeptical americans to finally take this deadly virus seriously. Its hard to come into work some days knowing that youre short and knowing that youre going to see people die. Were tired. But we get up and we still do this every day. Afraid that were going to get overrun by the sheer volume and the intensity of the sickness of the patients. We try and celebrate the small victories, but you know, recently, it feels few and far between. I have a 4 and an 8yearold. And they dont run to the door anymore because we dont give hugs when i get home. Around 400 or 500 at some points, maybe even more, and like i said, almost every patient was covid. Two weeks ago, we were at red, we were full. We had nowhere to ship people. We weresh keeping people too lo. Ande literally, our doctors we begging Regional Medical centers to open a bed up, because people, they were going to die here. Its an unfortunately common experience for Emergency Physicians like me to have nf encountered patients who just dont believe this is happening to them. A the layoff people are making a lot of sacrifices to make this work, so its frustrating for us to have difficulty conveying the seriousness of the situation. Weve come a long way, but people are dying still, people are getting sick, and if we just hold it together for a few more months, i really think were going to win. Joining me now is the White House Coronavirus responsew coordinator, dr. Deborah birx. Dr. Birx, welcome back to meet the press. Youlc heard from those front li medical workers. I know you travel the country speaking to a lot of these frontline workers. Do you understand their frustration now, when they feel as if theyre atfr their wits end . Theyve been pulling the double and triple shifts. Theyve been working so hard for eight months, and half the countrys not paying attention. I understand it completely, and its been a privilege to meet with them, from the billings clinic in montana to across this great country. To meet with Health Care Workers and hear their frustrations. And also meet with communities and hear their frustrations. And i think we have to come together with a joint understanding of how this virus is spread and how we can prevent thewe spread. What would you say to those Health Care Workers . Youre saying youre wearing a mask now if youre indoors. This is the cdc guidance, if youre not in your home. S . F i totally understand why youre doing this. Y yet, the statehouse and department are throwing parties this week, a as you know. This mixed messaging that the countrys been getting you say one thing, dr. Fauci says one thing, and the president does another. R. I think its really important that every Single Person understands that the way this virus is spread is, if youre with anyone indoors without a mask, thats a viral spreading opportunity. If youre outdoors and hugging and kissing individuals, that is a viral spreading opportunity. We have to really understand how contagious, how infectious this virus is. And its really important at this moment in time that everyone understands also how much virus is out there. There isnt a state without increasing cases right now, except hawaii. So, this is where we find ourselves, ande we have to lisn rightha now to what we know wor, which is masks, physical distancing,as washing your hand but not gathering. You cannot gather without masks in any indoor or close outdoor situation. I dont mean to belabor this point, and i understand your frustration probably as a Public Health official, being asked about what is happening on the political side of things. But the fact of the matter is, weve been through this for eight months now, and you have given us all these warnings. Andhe again, the president and others in the Administration Just flout them. And so, do you understand why some inso the public then say, well, if he doesnt think its a big deal, i guess maybe the health maybe he thinks all the health people, theyre overdoing it, theyre overselling it. You know, ive heard that personally. When i go out, i just dont meet with Health Care Providers and governors and mayors, but i also meet with community. And so, i hear Community Members parroting back those situations, parroting back that masks dont work, parroting back that we should work towards herd immunity, parroting back that gatherings dont result in superspreading events. And i think our job is to constantly say those are myths, they are wrong, and you can see the evidence base. Andce right now across the sun belt, we have governors and mayors who have cases equivalent to what they had in the summertime, yet arent putting in the same policies and mitigations that they put in the summer that they know change the course of this pandemic across the south. Ur so, it is frustrating, because not only do we know what works, governorsks and mayors use thos tools to stem the tide in the spring and the summer. And this fallwinter surge is combining everything that we saw in the spring with everything that we saw in the summer, plus the fall surge going into a winter surge, and i think thatn why dr. Redfield made this absolute appeal to the American People. This is notpphe just the worst Public Health event. This is the worst event that this country will t face, not jt from a Public Health side. Yet, we know what behaviors spread the virus and we know how to change those behaviors to stop spreading the virus. What states right now, what governors talk to them right now what states would you like to see increase the mitigation efforts right now . You know, all the states are trying to do something, and i dont want to be critical of any governor and mayor. I like to talk to them one on one whereth i can be very direc and really have a joint understanding of what their data showing. But every state across this country needsac to increase the mitigation, and every state needsev to be critically informg their state population that the gatherings that we saw in thanksgiving will lead to a surge, it will happen this week and next week, and we cannot go into the Holiday Season christmas, hanukkah, kwanzaa with this same kind of attitude that those, those gatherings dont apply to tme. N they apply to everybody. If you dontey want to lose you grandparents, your aunt. Lets be clear, if youre over 70, 20 of those over 70 who contract covid are hospitalized. And still, 10 of them are lost. So, if you have anyone in your family with comorbidities or over 70, you cannot do those things. You cannot gather with your mask off. You cannot hug and kiss people outside. We wont have a vaccine for even the most vulnerable americans im thrilled with the vaccine, but we wont have them for the most vulnerable americans until february. So, we need to do this now. Yes, the Nursing Homes will be vaccinated, but theres 100 million americans that have these comorbidities that put them at substantial risk. Talk to me about the Hospital Systems right now. How close are some to breaking points . And what does breaking point mean for the average person watching right now . I think whats really critical for people to understand is our hospitals normally in the fall and winter run between 80 and 90 full, just caring for our routine health. So,in when you add 10 , 15 , 20 covid19 patients on top of that, thats what puts them at the breaking point, because our normal Health Care System runs at 80 to 90 full throughout the fall. Now, i have seen, and part of the reason ive traveled, ive seen really successful examples, and thats part of the reason of going out, is to find out what is not working, but what also is working. Weve seen in chicago, illinois, hospitals come together and create a unified dashboard so they know at any one time, for every single patient that comes into the p emergency room, wher there is a bed that serves the needs of that individual patient. Weve taken that across the states so that they understand how to do that same kind of sharing dashboard. And so, there are good examples that can help preserve the lives of others. But i want to be very frank to the American People the vaccines critical, but its not going to save us from this current surge. Only we can save us from this current surge, and we know precisely what to do. So, if you have loved ones you want to veprotect, you have to follow these guidelines now. The cdc came out very late, about a weekam before thanksgiving, and advised against travel during thanksgiving. Are we going to get travel advisories for christmas and new years sooner than what we got before thanksgiving . I think theyre already saying that. I think theyve made it very clear about how dangerous traveb is, because it mixes households. And i think what weve learned over the last eight to nine months is how significant this asymptomatic spread is, and thats the silent spread. Those are individuals who are younger and just dont know theyre infected. Andey so, theyre passing on th virus. And so, weve called on every state to increase their testing, particularly for those under 40, so that they can be you can find that asymptomatic spread before itat infects their aunts their grandparents, their uncles, and really stop it. Its what universities did. T we have examples now, very clear examples, universities that tested 100 of their students on and off campus, at least weekly, infected less than 1 of their student body. When you test the way the United States is testing g symptomatic, contact tracing, some surveillance, 10 of their student body became infected. So,in we have an example how important testing is as part of this whole Public Health response, along with masking, physical distancing, and our hand hygiene and stopping our gatherings outside of our households. Dr. Deborah birx, the response coordinator for the Coronavirus Task force, im going to leave it there. I appreciate you coming on and sharing these dire warnings. I hope your boss also hears the same dire warnings that youre telling the rest of us. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. Turning now to Financial Relief from the covid crisis. Joining me is the democratic senator from West Virginia, joe manchin. Senator manchin, welcome back to meet the press. Good morning, chuck. Always goodhi to be with you. I want to start first with the situation with the virus here. You just heard from dr. Birx. Youve heard from dr. Fauci. I think the frustration is, why is it that we cant have even washington unified . Why cant even you guys in the United States senate come together and everybody say, hey, lets wear a mask. It does seem absurd how polarized weve gotten over this, and it seems to emanate from one individual, the president. Sure does. In West Virginia, we have 800 deaths have been registered. 17,000 cases, chuck. And we are now having 1,000 cases a day. We have never, ever, ever seen this. Never thought we would. And were going into the most challenging, difficult time. So, absolutely, were concerned. The senate in washington, as far as all of us, 100, most everybody is wearing masks. The senate democrats, we havent met as a group since it started in march of this past year, so weve been very, very diligent about that. Now, our republican colleagues are doing the same. Theyre not meeting. Theyre doing more zooms like we have been doing all along. So, everyone, i believe, is taking this more serious. The president has not, as has been part of his political posturing. Its dangerous. Its extremelyit dangerous. You know, over, what, close to 280,000 deaths so far . Yeah. Its unbelievable, chuck. And if you see the models it may double by april 1st. Yeah. Were scared to death of that. Thats what let me go to what it invited you on for. Sure, okay. Which has to do with this bipartisan deal. You guys are coming together. Looks like its going to be just underin 1 trillion. How close are you . Is this a deal that were going to seet come to fruition befor the end of this coming week . Well, its a deal that must come together. We dont have a choice now. Its one of those things that has to be nedone, and ill tell youdo the reason why. I want people to understand, this is a covid emergency relief. It started out as a relief framework. Youve seen the framework. How we came to 908 billion in all the different categories. And what we did as a group, we came together and said, listen, we have got to do something. After the e election, we starte coalescing around, how do we move this forward . And we looked at basically everything that was going to terminate at the end of december the lifelines that people are depending on, whether it be food assistance, whether it would be shelter, whether it besh health care, whether the necessities that people have child care thatseo needed to t to get our lives back all the things that were going to be eliminated, chuck. And we said, this cant be donei we cant allow this to happen. Democrats and republicans came together, and were moving forward. Its not the deal that a lot of people think is needed, including the chair of the federal reserve. I mean, i think he is concerned that its more likely youre underdoing it than overdoing it. Do you concur with him . Are you worried that youre probably doing less than you should be doing . Chuck,ly this is an emergenc relief package only until april 1, first quarter, to get through the first quarter. Every indication says more money is needed. We see that. This gets us through, basically, the lifelines that people need and the Small Businesses that can survive and not go under, unemployment checks that people are going to be losing. If we dont invest this money now and chuck, every indication says that more is needed. The president elect, joe biden, says this is a down payment. When he does come in as team can put together a different proposal that takes us further down the road for more recovery. If we dont do something now, and both of my, on both sides of the aisle, my colleagues have said the 908 billion of investment we make into the citizens of this country in trying to keep this economy from collapsing, could be more important than 2 trillion would be in february and march if we do nothing. Do and maybe then it might be too late for so many people and Small Businesses. This let me ask you a biggerpicture question about sort of the state two of the parties. Why do you think joe biden t outperformed the Democratic Party . And what lesson is there from joe biden that democrats can learn . Because he clearly outperformed the Democratic Party. Oh, most certainly. In my state, you know, im the last democrat standing. The bottom line is, weve been identified as something were not. Im a West Virginia democrat, a proud West Virginia democrat, and i dont know of any democrat that i know of that would ever defund the police. And how that got on as a mantra, that thats a democrat slogan . Thats not true. And how all these other things that seem to be extremes are not true. Its not who we are. Ee but we were tagged with that. We were slow, probably, as a party of responding to it. And saying, listen, theres more to us. If you look at basically our bedrock of who we are, how do we protect workers . How do we protect families . How do we give people opportunity . How do we have inclusion . Income equality, things that, basically, people areng dependi on in order to survive in this very, very difficult, troubled times. Senator, you said, actually, you werent just talking about this year, though you said, ive watched the last three elections, 16, 18, 20, we truly should have been in the majority, and it didnt happen. Why is that . It tells you the message we have is not for all americans. Basically, who are we as a party . If youre a democrat, why are you a democrat . Why . I tell people, im fiscally responsible and socially compassionate. Cant you be both . Cant you be fiscally responsible and socially compassionate . Do you have to be labeled as a democrat, you want to give everything away without any accountability . Thats not who i am. Thats not the democrats i was raised aswith. And thats basically what we have lost, who we are, how we basically will fight for workers rights, human rights. But still, yet, do so in a reasonable way that doesnt put so much burden on people. Say, listen, unless i am hurting, unless im in the minority, unless im this, youre giving more attention were not. Were trying to bring everybody together with the samee opportunities. Were not basically explaining that in a way that the average american understands, and were allowing other people to tag us. And thats just tunfair. It really is. And to have anybody, chuck, that basically does what the president s doing,ba blaming th democrats for everything. I toldcr President Trump one ti, i said, mr. President , why are you blaming the democrats . If it wasnt for democrats that were upset, youd have never been president. Why dont you bring us together, rather than dividing us further . Joe manchin, democrat from West Virginia. As he mosaid, still a proud democrat from West Virginia. Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you, chuck. All yright. Coming up stop inspiring people to commit potential acts ofir violence. Someones going to get hurt. Someones going to g get shot. Someones going to get killed. On the republican election official pushing back on President Trumps repeated false claims that the election in georgia was rigged. Gabriel sterling joins me this morning. Warigged Gabriel Sterling joins me this morning. What if i sleep hot . Or cold . Introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed. Now temperature balancing, so you can sleep better together. 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President trump made his First Campaign trip yesterday since election day and he made it to georgia. The president is reportedly looking to reelect david perdue and kelly loeffler, while focusing more on his baseless claims that the election was rigged and that he won georgias 16 electoral votes. That brought a spirited response from the top election officials, Gabriel Sterling, directed at President Trump and republicans who have been repeated his falsehoods. It has to stop. This is the backbone of democracy, and all of you who have not said a damn word are complicit in this. Gabriel sterling joins me now. Mr. Sterling, welcome to meet the press, sir. Good morning, chuck. I want to play for you something from the president last night and get you to respond to it on the other side. Heres what he said about georgia. Were all deeply disturbed and upset by the lying, cheating, robbing, stealing thats gone on with our elections. We know the democrats will have dead people voting. They have people signing their own name over and over. They have people signing names with the same pen, with the same signature, they dont even change, because they know once they get it in, it will never be looked at. It will never be looked at again because of people like your secretary of state and your governor. Mr. Sterling, you had made an impassed plea there that we just played, that this has to stop. Doesnt look like he chose to stop. Could you please debunk what he said there, when it comes to your role in the georgia elections . At this point, its whacamole even saying, the president s statements are false, theyre misinformation, they are stoking anger and fear among his supporters. And hell, i voted for him. The situations getting much worse, and its an environment thats been built out over years, and its not just republicans on this side this time, but even in polling, up to 2019, up to 50 of democrats think russians flipped votes on machines. So, this is going both ways. This undermines democracy. And weve got to get to a point where responsible people act responsibly. Well, im just curious, what was it that sparked your decision to come out as, you know, to come out as direct as you came out earlier this week . Was there a specific incident or incidents that have been happening to you or others . It wasnt happening i mean, obviously, i have a police car outside my house right now, in my vision. There has been Police Protection for the secretary. His wife received sexual violent threats on her personal cell phone. But what, for lack of a better word, set me off on tuesday, was about an hour and a half before a previously scheduled news conference, i got a call from the project manager from dominion voting systems out of colorado, who is telling me in a very audibly shaken voice that one of their contractors had received some threats in gwinnett county. This is just a young tech. He took a job a few weeks ago. Hes one of their better ones. And the one that was going through twitter feed on it, and i saw it. It basically had the young mans name, a unique name, so they tracked down his family, started harassing him. And they said his name, you have committed treason, may god have mercy on your soul, with a slowly swinging noose. And at that point, i just said, im done. You said something earlier this week, lets face it, senator loeffler and senator perdue were forced by President Trump to ask for my boss, secretary raffenspergers resignation. The implicit threat was that he would do two tweets and torpedo their campaigns. Do you stand by those comments . Do you really believe that loeffler and perdue essentially had to do what trump said . Its the only thing that makes sense because even their staff were surprised when they put that out. You know, it had been about a week and a half, i guess, since the election had been over. And to say, one of the things they said is that we were not transparent. We were literally doing two press conferences a day and sending out hourly press releases on the count. Nobody has any specific allegation. They just want to keep the Trump Supporters worked up because they think thats the best path to win the senate races. I personally think by doing what i have asked and stepping up and saying, you know, this disinformation has to stop, the violence and intimidations has to stop, they would get more votes. Im still supporting them. We have to im a republican. We need to hold onto the senate, so im still going to vote for them, but im not happy with how they conducted themselves in this particular situation. I was going to ask there, i mean, look, you seem to be somebody that you know, you want to be viewed as somebody who has the highest ethics, highest integrity, particularly in a position youre in right now when it comes to overseeing elections, helping to oversee elections. Do you believe that these folks running as republicans right now have the same ethical standards that you have . Well, give me an easy question. Politics is a complicated profession. I said that earlier this week as well. And the values and things you have to fight for, sometimes it gets to be complicated and difficult. I said something difficult on tuesday to people who are in a position of responsibility, who i would hope would show a higher sense of leadership and duty, but at the end of the day, i believe that their opponents would do more damage to this country than they would on this particular front and that particular day. Do you regret your vote for President Trump now . Well, i can say one thing, i would have been a lot happier if it had been 13,000 votes the other way in the state. My life would have been a lot easier. But considering how hes behaved, do you ask yourself, hmm, maybe he isnt the right person to lead the country, at least if this is what hes going to do to the democracy . I think that we have this on all sides. President trump has a higher sense of responsibility, should be held to a higher standard, but we have a governor candidate in the state who still hasnt conceded. We have people who believe russians switched votes. All sides, republican and democrat, have to stand up and do their job, the president included and especially. Do you believe that the president is doing damage to the Republican Party in georgia by continuing to stir this pot . Yes. Do you think it could cost loeffler and perdue their senate races . Yes. When he and his lawyers and even his former lawyers and had his former lawyers are literally saying, dont vote. Its mixed messaging, its confusing. And if youre telling people, dont trust the election system, why would they vote . The best argument is if you think theyre stealing it, show up and vote to at least make it harder for them to steal. Gabriel sterling, who helps oversee the elections system there, working for the secretary of state. You spoke out pretty hard this week. I appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir. Thank you, chuck. I wish i didnt have to do it. All right. Please stay safe out there. When we come back, could President Trumps phony claims about rigged elections keep enough republicans from voting in georgias Runoff Election and risk handing the senate to the democrats . The panel is next. E to the democrats . The panel is next. Were helping change the future of Heart Failure. Understanding how to talk to your doctor about Treatment Options is key. Today, we are redefining how we do things. We find new ways of speaking, so youre never out of touch. Its seeing someones face that comforts us, no matter where. When those around us know us, they can show us just how much they care. The first steps of checking in, the smallest moments can end up being everything. Theres resources that can inform us, and that spark can make a difference. When we use it to improve things, then that change can last within us. When we understand whats possible, we wont settle for less. The best thing we can be is striving to be at our best. Managing Heart Failure starts now with understanding. Call today or go online to understandhf. Com for a free hf handbook. Welcome back. It is panel time. Nbc News National Political Correspondent steve kornacki, kimberly atkins, senior opinion write for the boston globe, Reuters White House correspondent jeff mason and Daniel Pletka of the American Enterprise institute. Mr. Kornacki, i want to start with something that the wall street Journal Editorial Board said on thursday. Heres what they wrote about the president in georgia at least for now he can say, with justification, that he helped the gop gain seats in the house and avoid a route in the senate, but that narrative changes for the worse if the gop loses in georgia, after mr. Trump divided his own party to serve his personal political interest. They wrote this thursday. I dont think anything changed watching that event last night, steve. Yeah. I think there is a real risk here for republicans in georgia. It works on two fronts. I think you mentioned one of them there, and thats simply the sort of core trump base, the core Republican Base in georgia with everything that trump is saying about republicans in that state, about the integrity of elections in georgia, everything hes alleging there. Does that depress that core Republican Base in any way . But i think the other big concern republicans have to have is that there are its clear when you look at the results from november, there are splitticket voters in georgia. You know, joe biden was able to beat trump by about 12,000 votes. Meanwhile, in that Perdue Ossoff race, perdue finished about 88,000 votes ahead of ossoff. And when you really break it down, i think what you see are voters particularly in the Atlanta Metro area, often in welltodo places roswell, alpharetta, sandy springs, places like this i think thats where you saw this dynamic the most at work, folks who it really seems went out on election day in november and said they wanted to do two things, vote against trump and vote against democrats having control of the senate. And i think the risk for republicans is, trumps not going to be on the ballot in this january runoff, but to the extent trump makes this election about him, do those same voters, who, you know, had that instinct to vote against democrats, do they say, you know what, this is too much about trump, im going to use this to vote against trump again . You know, and that was the story of the 2018 midterms, where it became a proxy in a way to sort of send a message to trump. I know this is sort of, this president is somebody that knows how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but if he wants to be formidable in 2024, losing Georgia Senate seats is not a way to get there. He will get the blame for even one loss now, will he not . Oh, theres no question. And by the way, if he has anybody to blame, it will be himself, because he is the one who has chosen to make this about him. He is the one who has chosen to continue this narrative about the stolen election. And he had a couple of kind words for the two candidates who are up in georgia in a few weeks, but he spent most of last nights rally talking about himself. And he is going to depress turnout, and he will get the blame, make no mistake. Jeff mason, youre in that white house every day. Look, im aware, there are people that are trying to change his sort of, at least public posture on all of this stuff. He seems more dug in than ever. Yes. He absolutely does. And those people that youre referring to, chuck, just arent the ones that hes listening to. There are advisers who are saying, hey, focus on your legacy, and the georgia race will be a part of that legacy, as dannie and steve were just saying. But there are so many other things that he could be focusing on, but hes not. Hes listening to the people who are continuing to say, keep fighting on, and those people are the ones that we see as part of the legal challenges rudy giuliani, jenna ellis, and that team. And then kimberly atkins, even when you hear when bill barr comes out i want to put up his quote. And he says and this was on tuesday to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election. He said that on tuesday to the associated press. I would imagine, kimberly, if this has changed, theyd be screaming from the rooftops at the Justice Department building to say, hey, this has changed. So, here we are, still nothing there, and now the president wants to turn on him. Right. I mean, were seeing this same playbook where now the president is reportedly fuming and considering firing bill barr. He, himself, said wait for a couple of weeks. Meanwhile, theres only six weeks left in the trump administration. But bill barr, who, to be sure, has been a staunch supporter of donald trumps, both his policies and his rhetoric right up to the election, even casting his own doubt about the Election Security and the possibility of fraud, even empowering his own prosecutors to publicly initiate investigation, changing doj policy leading up to the election in a way that could have influenced voters confidence in it. But at the end of the day, there was no there there. And even the attorney general cannot start criminal investigations into something that didnt happen, whether the president likes that or not. That was the line that bill barr finally drew. And as you said, its the best evidence that nothing has happened. And jeff mason, besides the other thing that the president focused on this week, besides his own election problems he ignored covid again he started talking about, we have the pardon situation, and theyre making these radical changes over at the pentagon, where theyre firing a defense board and appointing a couple of Campaign Operatives from campaigns past and Corey Lewandowski and david bossie. What is going on . What is the president trying to do to bidens presidency in these last few weeks by putting people, planting them inside the government . What is the strategy . Well, a number of things, chuck. I think, number one, despite the fact that he has not conceded the election to president elect biden, he is aware of the fact that he will be leaving, he being President Trump, on january 20th. So, he wants to leave as many hurdles as he can for his successor, and that includes what you were talking about at the pentagon. It includes just the difficulty that he has made it up until just a week or two ago for biden and his team to get access to information. And it also suggests that despite him pushing forward to challenge this election, he is aware of a legacy and he wants that legacy to be this, and he wants that legacy to have an impact on his successor, some would say in the same way that he tried to undermine president obama when he was in office. Dannie pletka, is there a goodfaith argument that exists for appointing Corey Lewandowski and david bossie to this pentagon review board . Well, on the one hand, this pentagon review board has often had appointees on it who have a somewhat tenuous relationship to National Security. On the other hand, the wholesale purge of former officials, including, by the way, senior republicans, people like j. D. Crouch, someone like henry kissinger, for heaven sakes, that smacks of the kind of cronyism, the kind of, you know, dictatorial loyalty test that donald trump loves. On the other hand, i dont think that that is going to throw out much of a barrier to joe biden because he can push out all of these new appointees almost as easily as donald trump did. I think thats something everybodys figuring out here and i wonder if the trump folks realize how much time they may be wasting doing what theyre doing right now. We shall see. Im going to pause here. When we come back, the president ial election was not as close as you think, but it was a lot closer than elections some of us grew up with. Thats next. Me of us grew up with thats next. Robinhood believes now is the time to do money. Without the commission fees. So, you can start investing today wherever you are even hanging with your dog. So, what are you waiting for . Download now and get your first stock on us. Robinhood. Save for being a new customer. Save more for adding drivewise. Save even more for driving safely. See how much you can save with allstate. Welcome back. Data download time. More than a month after election day, the story for many is just how close the president ial race was. Yet, although many expected a wider margin, the relative closeness of bidens almost 4 1 2point popular vote victory over donald trump actually should not have been a surprise, because when compared to recent years, it wasnt really that bidens margin of victory was actually bigger than all but one election since 2000, including george w. Bushs 2 1 2point win in 2004 and Barack Obamas 3. 9 percentage point win in 2012. In fact, the only bigger margin was Barack Obamas 2008 win, which was actually only just above a 7 percentage point victory over john mccain. But as we all learned in 2000 and 2016, the popular vote does not decide the presidency. Its the electoral college, and those victories have also been narrowing as well. In fact, since 2000, only once has a president ial candidate carried more than 30 states, george w. Bush with 31 in 2004. Now, that may sound like a lot today, but a president ial candidate breaking 30 states, well, that used to be pretty common. At least in my childhood. Lets take a look at the 80s. Each president ial winner in that decade captured 40 or more states on the way to the white house. Even bill clinton carried more than 30 states. In fact, we can go even further back. In the 19 elections from 1920 to 1992, the winner of the president ial race carried fewer than 32 states just three times. Now, remember, bushs 31state win in 2004 is the most states weve seen a candidate win in the 21st century, period. Heres another way to think about it. Since 1988, every president ial election has been decided by singledigit margins in the popular vote. Nine straight president ial elections, going back to george h. W. Bushs victory in 88. Define the last time the country had a close string of races like that, you have to go back more than a century, when the country saw seven consecutive singledigit elections between 1876 and 1900. Think about that period of time, right . The economy was transitioning. We were getting out of the civil war still. Not a surprise that that was a polarizing time as well. The deep divides in our country have made razorthin margins the norm every four years, making it increasingly difficult for whichever party comes out on top to get anything done. When we come back, how hard is it to keep all of the factions of the Democratic Party happy these days . President elect joe biden is finding out. Joe biden is finding out. Two hospitalizations every minute. Understanding how to talk to your doctor about Treatment Options is key. Today, we are redefining how we do things. We find new ways of speaking, so youre never out of touch. Its seeing someones face that comforts us, no matter where. When those around us know us, they can show us just how much they care. The first steps of checking in, the smallest moments can end up being everything. Theres resources that can inform us, and that spark can make a difference. When we use it to improve things, then that change can last within us. When we understand whats possible, we wont settle for less. The best thing we can be is striving to be at our best. Managing Heart Failure starts now with understanding. Call today or go online to understandheartfailure. Com for a free Heart Failure handbook. Call today or go online to understandheartfailure. Com beautiful. But when i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. But now i practice a different philosophy. Quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. And now im back on top. With koala kai. Hey more mercy. Save over 30 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. The easy way to a happier business. Save for being a new customer, for adding drivewise, and for driving safely. Whatever you drive, start driving down the cost of insurance. Welcome back. Now a little bit of a focus on the incoming administration. Steve kornacki, as president elect biden puts together a cabinet, you wont be surprised, not everybodys happy with the picks so far. Theres a little bit of an issue when it comes to representation. Let me just put together a few comments we have here. I really thought at this stage of the game i would see more africanamerican appointments in the top positioned, said Bonnie Watson coleman, a democratic member of congress from new jersey. Its no secret that we dont see too many Asian Americans there, do we . Said the dncs chair of the Asian American Pacific Islander caucus. Were very, very concerned as a community as a latino community, said congressman vicente gonzalez. Steve, it appears, right now, we know latinos, they believe they dont have anybody, it looks like, in the big four. You see africanamericans, jim clyburn has said this, he would like to see that pace increase. What kind of pressure is the Biden Campaign feeling on this . Well, its interesting. Theres the question of demographic representation. Theres also the ideological question, the progressive wing of the party, what theyre looking for here. I do think the context, when you talk about demographic representation, the political context of this is interesting because, of course, the victory that joe biden just put up in the november election came with democrats actually losing ground with non white voters, i think specifically with latino voters to some degree with africanamerican men. Certainly, theres evidence there, especially when you look at like Orange County in california, look at some of the house races out there. I think Asian American voters as well. So, democrats come into this administration, i think, the last four years, really the last the trump era, i should say putting a lot of their future, i think a lot of their future calculations on growing nonwhite population, an assumption that theyre going to continue to rack up gigantic margins there. They certainly won by a wide margin with nonwhite voters, but not as wide a margin as i think they were expecting. And i think thats one of those questions to be looking at going forward. Is that something that kind of reverts to mean in the biden era, or is there a start of a trend there that continues in some way and that could alarm democrats . Kimberly atkins, as steve mentioned, its not just about demographic representation. You have ideological disputes as well. We know the Bernie Sanders world not happy, for instance, that neera tanden is the designee for budget director. What does the Biden Campaign have to worry about politically, both on these ideological appointments and on the demographic appointments . I think the main issue here isnt so much necessarily counting the numbers. Are there x number of progressives, x number of black and brown folks in his cabinet . Its who they are, where they are, and what they are doing. And i think that applies in both these situations. You have the Biden Administration coming in, in the middle of a pandemic, and right on the heels of things like protests, demands for justice in the form of policing reform. And so, you see the people. And while its true that what steve said is true, the share of black and brown voters shrunk, but it was black and brown voters in states like georgia, in states like wisconsin and michigan that helped joe biden win. And what i am hearing from folks who are not entirely pleased with his picks so far is that hes not shown that the people closest to him understand the issues that drove those voters to the polls in the first place, understand the issues that if youre talking about growing the party will continue to push more of those voters, whether its progressives, whether its black people, whether its brown people, latinos, Asian Americans, to the polls to ensure that the Democratic Party is showing them that it is a party for them. And i know that joe biden wants to rely on people that he knows, people that he trusts, which includes neera tanden. At the same time, he has to be willing to listen to those who are closest to him. And so, he has to demonstrate that in some of these positions that are remaining, particularly hhs and attorney general. Those are the ones that folks are watching closely. They definitely are. I think Javier Xavier becerra b a frontrunner at hhs, attorney general in california, former member of congress, says theyve at least been listening to the latina criticism. Jeff mason, it does seem as if joe biden has got an interesting challenge here. I think he does owe some representation, particularly the africanamerican community. I mean, he said it himself, they had his back so hes got to have theirs. But one could argue, he has a mandate to diss progressives. Now, he probably cant get caught saying it that way, but in were decidedly not only not with him, they tried to defeat him. Well, yes, and i think the message from biden camp on all of this, whether its progressives or concern from other minority groups, is we hear you, but weve got this. And he does feel like he has a mandate, and hes also facing the reality that President Trump did not face, which is that when he governs, he is likely to continue to face challenges from his own party. But hes aware of that and he has said repeatedly, look, i didnt pull the wool over anybodys eyes during this election. Im a moderate. Thats who i am. Thats my background and thats how im going to govern. Dannie pletka, a moderate is still a democraliberal. In the cabinet, it looks more centerleft than progressive left. It does in some cases. Politico reported that National Security progressives and far left activist groups like win without war and code pink are now trying to coordinate their response to these appointments. Theyre trying to stop, for example, michelle flournoy, whos one of bidens candidates to head the department of defense. They dont like her because shes worked with defense contractors. And i think that thats what were going to see is that there is going to be pushback. Lets remember, all of these Political Parties this happened with donald trump as well once they lose that outside boogie man, they become circular firing squads, and it becomes very hard to get stuff done. Steve kornacki, tonight youre supposed to explain the nfl playoff picture to us. Here in washington, the Football Team would like to know if they could make the playoffs, but a lot of us are thinking, are we going to have a recount when it comes to the nfc east, and maybe those ballots ought to be thrown out . The nfc east is going to test if its possible for 610 to actually make the playoffs. I mean, you look at those schedules those three teams are playing today, who are near the top right now the possibility that no ones going to have a losing record i think is very strong there a winning record. Well, forget the pressure of Election Night mapping. Were going to see you tonight, football night in america with steve kornacki. I look forward to it. Thank you, panel, terrific. And thank you all for watching with us. Well be back next week, because if its sunday, its meet the press. Sunday, its meet the press. In conclusion, i would say the defense rests, but we will never rest, not until this election is overturned or i get a full pardon and 10 million in cash, and if you like what you saw here today, were having a press conference right after this at the ritz carlton plumbing and heating supply company, right off i94 between a dirtie Movie Theater and a crematorium. Pets not only allowed, theyre required. Snls take on Rudy Giulianis efforts to overturn the election. Now weve learned that the former mayor has t