Transcripts For MSNBCW Meet The Press 20170528

Backchannel communications with russia to avoid u. S. Monitoring. The reaction, former deputy cia chief john mclaughlin. If an american Intelligence Officer had done anything like this, wed consider it espionage. The Trump Administration responds. But not in front of cameras. Were not going to comment on jare were just not going to comment. This after former cia chief john brennan testifies that russia can lure people unwittingly into treason. Frequently individuals who go along a treasonous path do not even realize theyre on that path until it gets to be a bit too late. My guests this morning, chairman of the Senate Foreign relations committee, bob corker. Former director of National Intelligence, jachmes clapper. And Homeland Security chief john kelly. And that congressional race in montana, the republican won. The democrat closed the gap. Which party has reason to celebrate . Joining me for insight and analysis are msnbcs joy reid. Kimberly strassel, columnist for the wall street journal. Msnbc political analyst charlie sykes. And amy walter of the cook political report. Welcome to sunday. Its meet the press. Good sunday on this me mourl memorial day weekend. The president came home late last night from his first overseas trip in russia. When he did, the russia investigation got much closer to home as well. So much closer in fact it now involves the soninlaw Jared Kushner. President trump faces a growing scandal that threatens to overshadow his agenda and perhaps his entire psidency. Just consider what has happened in just the last week. The woest woWashington Post reports that mr. Trump had asked his chief of staff to push back on the russia investigations. John brennan testifies he saw intelligence revealing contacts between russian officials and Trump Campaign members he thought deserved investigation. Thursday, nbc reports that kushner is now under fbi scrutiny in the russia investigation, though he is not a target. Late friday night, the Washington Post bombshell, that kushner and russias ambassador to the United States discussed setting up a secret backdoor channel using russian communication facilities. So that their preinauguration discussions would not be picked up by u. S. Monitoring. The last item was so explosive the Trump Administration went out of the way yesterday to field reporters questions off camera even if they didnt actually answer them. Were not going to comment on jared. Were just not going to comment. National security adviser h. R. Mcmaster did try to defend kushner without saying his name. Generally speaking about back channel communications, what that i allows you to do is communicate in a discrete manner. Its very concerning they wanted to have these conversations at russian diplomatic facilities using russian phone lines. That shows that they were really trying to conceal this from the Obama Administration and from u. S. Intelligence. The reactions to the kushner story include simple shock from the Intelligence Community. I cant keep out of my mind the thought that if an american Intelligence Officer had done anything like this, we would consider it espionage. Reuters is also reporting that kushner had at least three previously undisclosed contacts with the Russian Ambassador. Including two phone calls before the election. Sometime between april and november. Kushners attorney did not deny the story but responded this way. Mr. Kushner participated in thousands of calls in this time period. He has no recollection of the calls as described. On thursday, nbc news reported that kushner is under fbi scrutiny. Though not a subject of the investigation like former trump aides Paul Manafort and michael flynn. Also this week former cia director john brennan publicly acknowledged for the first time his concern that Trump Campaign associates wittingly or unwittingly may have been cooperating with russian operatives. Though he says he saw no proof of collusion. I saw information and intelligence that was worthy of investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not such cooperation of collusion was taking place. Now the Senate Intelligence committee asked mr. Trumps Political Organization to gather and produce all documents, emails and phone records going back to his campaigns launch in june 2015. Mr. Kushner was also in charge of the campaigns data operation. We knew kplaexactly where ou million voters we were needed in the key swing states. Jared was a critical leader to help make this all happen. The president will not be able to avoid questions as he did jovr seas beginning with his own party in Congress Many of whom were already losing confidence in his ability to lead. I think we have a situation on our hands where every few days theres a new revelation. Idea that Congress Continues to do nothing about russias int interference in our election is completely unacceptable. Im going to do everything we can to make sure we sanction russia for interfering in our election. Former House Speaker john boehner said Foreign Policy aside, Everything Else hes done has been a complete disaster. Joining me now, republican senator and chairman of the Foreign Relations, bob corker of tennessee. Senator, welcome back to meet the press, sir. Chuck, good to be with you. Let me start with the allegations involving Jared Kushner and the meetings he had where either he suggested or somebody suggested that a back channel be put together in some form, possibly using russian facilities. Can you think of any good reason to do Something Like that in a transition period between one presidency over another . Look, i i think jared has said that hes more than willing to answer any and all questions. They reached out to us yesterday to make sure that we knew that was the case and im sure hes willing to do so. I look at what the reports have said about asking questions of him. It seems to me that hes based on just the reporting that you and others are making, hes not a sergeant target. I think i would just wait. Sounds like hes more than glad to talk about all of these things. Instead of getting wrapped up into a lot of hyperbole as these things can sometimes do, i think talking with him directly and getting him to answer any and all questions as he said he would do would probably be the prudent course of action. I understand that, but can you think of any good reason lets take, as you knows, the Washington Post bombshell and clearly the white house hasnt said much publicly. They seem to be talking anonymously to tthe New York Times and implied, well, the meeting, wasnt clear who suggested a back channel and that it was going to involve mike flynn and syria. Heres what i dont understand. Why would you why would anybody want to set up Something Like that if it was about syria and not let the pentagon know about it . Yeah, i have no idea. Again, i think its best to talk directly with these people. I know that from a military standpoint, obviously we have ways of deacon fliconflicting w russia on things relative to syria. Again, chuck, because i just dont know, i mean, these things are these sources are not people who are willing to give their names, its just hard to respond to things like this, that, again, no names attached, no dates attached. Look, lets let this unfold and as ive spent a lot of time with jared. He was over just recently in a bipartisan way briefing us on the upcoming trip. They achieved all of their goals. He seems to me to be a very open person and, again, id let him speak for himself when the time is right on all these issues and at that time, we can actually render judgment on the reality of what did or didnt take place. The time is right. I guess im a little concerned, do you not have a sense of urgency about this . This is lets think about the time period here. You just had 17 intelligence agencies report that russia interfered with this election. These interactions in the month of december, senator corker, you would think would trouble many people if they thought that, geez, theres been accusations that maybe they were trying to the russians were trying to assist one campaign or the other then to have these meetings and then to have them talk about the idea of avoiding american eavesdropping, i guess, if you want to call it that. None of this troubles you . I mean, you want to wait till it unfolds . No, no, no. No, no, no, no chuck. Okay. These recent reports is what im talking about. I mean, again, as i understand it, Jared Kushner is more than glad to talk about all of these things. As it relates to the interference in the election, no question. And as you know, weve been allowing for a short period of time for secretary of state tillerson to see if he can change the trajectory in syria, but this next work period, we very much, unless theres some major change in russias actions in syria, plan to double down on sanctions with russia. So absolutely not. Couldnt agree more with that. Im not disagreeing that they interfered with our elections, we need to do something about that. If youre trying to tie me into that, no, no, no, i agree 100 . Im not trying to tie you into knots but you just connected sanctions to the behavior in syria. Should russia be punished for election interference, period . They should and sometimes, chuck, what we want to do is make sure that were having a good outcome for our nation and so with can act with passion over an issue. On the other hand, if we know that there are some negotiations taking place when our relationship with russia is at the lowest point ever since 1991 for good reason, if there are some negotiations taking place relative to that, does it make some sense to give the secretary of state some time to see where that goes . There are going to be sanctions against russia, codifying of existing sanctions on ukraine and crimea. That is going it happen but i think my job and many people in the Foreign Relations community in general is to make sure we have good jot comeoutcomes. So, look, russia is going to be punished for what it did in interfering in our elections. Theres an investigation thats under way. I talk each week multiple times with senator burr and senator warner as to how that is unfolding. But, again, to give a diplomat, everybodys going nuts over the 1 issue that we spend on diplomacy and aid. We care about diplomacy in our country. We want to make sure that it works. Were going to give it every opportunity. To wait a few weeks at the request of the secretary of state to see if he can change things in syria seems to me to be an appropriate thing to do. Thats what weve done, but next work period we plan to take it up. I was just going to say, you said a few weeks. Its been four months since theyve tannin taken office. In your opinion, is it time to decide the russians arent going to change their behavior in syria . Well see. I read the intelligence on wednesday morning. It doesnt seem to me that theyve changed their behavior in any way. So i thinkere going to moving on with this. I know the Banking Committee plans to do the same but again, chuck, i dont i dont know what youre getting at here. Obviously, yes, it has been six months, so does waiting two or three weeks for the secretary of state to see if he can negotiate a change, does that affect our ability to focus on what they did on the elections . I dont think so. And by the way, were not going to wait for the senate investigation, but there is an investigation under way in the intel community. Typically, you wait until those things are complete before you take action. In this case, were probably going to go ahead just because of the clambering for this to occur. Rightly so. Were going to take up sanctions this next work period. Let me ask you a question in the event speaking of your next work period, john mccain made this interesting analysis of all the things you guys got to get done in the senate before labor day. Heres the reality. Weve got 11 weeks between now and the end of september. We got repeal of obamacare, were talking about tax reform, talking about a defense bill, talking about theres about three other things, a looming debt limit. How do you pack all that in . So far ive seen no strategy for doing so, seeing no plan for doing so. There seems to be, hes not alone but hes on the record, there seems to be a lot of concern among your colleagues that you have no idea how many of these things are going to get done in the next three months. Well, its obvious that not all of these things are going to get donen the next three months. Theres a lot to do. Were right now meeting on health care. The meetings have been, i will say, very substantive. I would have liked for them to be more in the public so youre bringing the public along. There seems to be some consolidation beginning to take place on tax reform. Had a great discussion this week with fred smith at fedex whos working with many business associates. There seems to be something gelling there, but no, weve got a lot to do. Theres no question and were going to do the best that we can but, you know, we have a full twoyear congressional cycle here to get many of those things done and, again, i think were moving along in a thoughtful way with way too much work, youre right, to get done. A lot of people to get confirmed nomination wise. Spending issues, a lot to get done. Thats its a privilege to serve in the senate to try to accomplish those things. Fair enough. Ill move along as quickly as we can. All right, senator. Im going it leave it there. Got a busy show this morning. Senator bob corker, thanks for coming on, sharing your view, sir. Thank you. With you got it. Earlier this morning i spoke with Homeland Security secretary john kelly and began by asking him about the Jared Kushner news. I know jared. Hes a great guy, decent guy. His numberone interest really is the nation. So, you know, theres a lot of different ways to communicate back channel, you know, publicly, with other countries. I dont see any big issue here relative to relative to jared. Even with an adversary somebody that was at the time our own Intelligence Community had collectively said this was a country that infiltrated our election. Did this show good judgment . Well, you know, it was before the government was in place during the transition period i think from what i understand and i think any time you can open lines of communication with anyone, whether theyre good friends or not so good friends, is a smart thing to do. Had you ever in your lifetime of Government Service both in the military and outside of it, had you ever used another governments Communications Facility though, the idea of sort of going around American Communications . Well, no, but i didnt have to. I mean, in my previous life, we wouldnt do that kind of thing, but, you know,better way to put it, not politics but the kind of interaction here in washington, theres a lot of ways to communicate with people. Intelligence sharing is something thats extraordinarily important to your job. Uhhuh. If you get to the point where you now have our own Intelligence Community not very comfortable with how this administration is dealing with intelligence, how problematic is that for you . For me, and again, i dont necessarily accept this, you know, the issue of the issues related to intelligence being a problem right now, but for me, i mean, i interact with my counterparts overseas all the time. I rely on all of the Intelligence Community to make the decisions that i make. Its not an issue for me for sure. Did you i want to just one more time going back to the russia thing, is this any way are you concerned if there is a back channel over here that it is actually going to disrupt our ability to know what the russians are up to . Just because you have a back channel if, indeed, thats what jared was after, doesnt mean that he then keeps everything secret. I mean, he shares that, but the back channel, as i understand it, of course, every administration has had it all the way forever. Backchannel communications with people are ways to communicate with people, again, not in front of the, you know, press as an example, but that information is, you know, not necessarily kept secret from the are rest of the government. Does Jared Kushner have the same level of security clearance that you do . I dont know. On intelligence front . Is that something you should know . Not necessarily. Everything we do in the security world, classification world, of course, before i would Start Talking to anyone, i would make sure they had the requisite security clearances. Im cleared for topsecret compartmented fbi, that kind of thing. Is jared the same kind of thing . I dont know but if i had to talk to him or anyone else at the intelligence that im briefed in, i would make sure they had that clearance before i talked to them. I got to ask you about a comment you made on friday. Here it is. Im going it get you to explain. I was telling steve on the way in here, if he knew what i knew about terrorism, hed never leave the house in the morning. Really. I have to admit, it was a little jarring. I dont know if you meant it tongue in cheek or not. What do you mean by that . There are incredible plots against the United States terrorism plots against the United States. The really, really good news is we have incredible men and women that are protecting us every day. You know, the away game, overseas, deparent of defense, cia, nsa, the home game fought by dhs, local Law Enforcement, fbi, every single day there are people plotting to try to hurt us from a terrorism point of view and every single day, we beat them. The men and women of Law Enforcement, again, i say dhs, fbi, dod, we beat them every day, but we have to be perfect. They just have to be lucky once. Its interesting to me that you seemed to say that you wouldnt sleep at night. I mean, how serious if we had a threat level the way the uk has it, would we be at the highest level . Well, we have no specific threats right now, otherwise wed be at a higher level. Okay. Theres always a threat. We just are vigilant every day. Again, the 99. 9 of americans can sleep safe in their homes at night. Their children are protected. They are protected. But it is a Relentless Mission of our Law Enforcement intelligence, military people, to protect america. Did british Prime Minister theresa may have a point when she complained to the United States about leaks . She did. She did . It did come from our side . I dont know where the leak came from, but i will tell you this as i always do in cases like this, i immediately called my counterpart in uk and after offering my condolences about the attack, unbelievably the third time in 120 days ive done that. Ive called the minister and offered my condolences. She immediately brought this topic up and if it came from the United States, its totally unacceptable. And i dont know why people do these kind of things but its borderline, if not over the over the line of treason. You believe its treason to leak some of the stuff, you believe thats treason . I do believe it is. I believe when you leak the kind of information that seems to be routinely leaked, the high, high level of classification, you are telling me and what was leaked on this Manchester Bombing you believe maybe even meets, say, treason . I think it darn close to treason. Mr. Secretary, im running out of time. I have to leave it there. Coming up, how unusual is it for and coming white house to attempt to arrange a back channel with a Foreign Government to elude u. S. Monitoring . Ill ask my next guest, former director of National Intelligence, james clapper. But first, throughout the show, as we go to break on this memorial day weekend, we pause to honor our fallen men and women in uniform since last memorial day. Go on break, we h men and women in uniform on this memorial day. Theres nothing traditional about my Small Business so when it comes to technology, i need someone that understands my unique needs. My dell Small Business advisor has gotten to know our business so well that is feels like hes a part of our team. With one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services. And when my advisor is focused on my tech, i can focus on my Small Business. Brtry new Flonase Sensimists. Allergy relief instead of allergy pills. It delivers a gentle mist experience to help block six key inflammatory substances. Most allergy pills only block one. New Flonase Sensimist changes everything. Theres nothing more than my vacation. Me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. Booking. Com gets it. And with their price match, i know im getting the best price every time. Now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. Your memorial day weekend is very important. Thats why booking. Com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. Find great deals now at booking. Com. Booking. Yeah welcome back. As questions continue to swirl about the transition Teams Communications with russia, walk through the timeline of specifically when the events took place, weve learned more from the month of december of 2016, its on the 1st or 2nd Jared Kushner or mike flynn met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak to reportedly discuss setting up a system of Backchannel Communications between trump transition and the kremlin. For what reason, thats in dispute. Later in december, kushner meets with sergey gorkof, head of a sanctioned russian stateowned bank. The bank was sanctioned. Not the individual. December 29th, calls take place between flynn and kislyak allegedly to discuss the new sanctions the Obama Administration issued against russia that day. Those sanctions were in response to russian interference in the election. Joining me now, former director of National Intelligence, james clapper. Mr. Clapper, welcome back to the show. Thanks, chuck. Before i get into the rest of the story, you just heard secretary kelly talk about the leaks that took place. We know the uk complained about the Manchester Bombing. He referred to some of these leaks that they sort of walk up to the line of treason. Some might say, hey, theyre just leaking out something that they think the public should know. Where do you draw that line . Well i think, first of all, i have to say that leaks are damaging. Theyre corrosive. They risk compromising sources, methods and trade craft. As weve seen recently, they damage relationships with crucial partners. You know, uk and israel come to mind. And this is particularly serious now because in my experience, 50plus years in intelligence, i know over time when we depended more on friends and allies for sharing information and intelligence, particularly with respect to terrorism, so i know secretary kelly takes takes this quite seriously and he should. You know, Legal Definition of whats treason, ill leave that to the lawyers, but just from a practitioner standpoint in the intelligence business, leaks are bad. All right. Let me go through the issue that has been the bombshell this weekend. This issue that Jared Kushner at the time, private citizen, yes, a private adviser at the time to the presidenlenelect, was havin meetings with the ambassador to russia, sergey slyak an they hid these meetings from public eye. We also learned that he met with the head of a sanctioned russian bank. You were still the director of National Intelligence in december. Are these things you would have known . Well, yes, they would have, and just to reinforce John Brennans former director of Central Intelligence a. G. , his comments before the house firm i have to say without specific specifically affirming or confirming these conversations since even though theyre in the realm, theyre still classified, but just from a theoretical standpoint, i will tell you that my dashboard warning light was clearly on and i think that was the case with all us in the Intelligence Community. Very concerned about the nature of these approaches to the russians. If you put that in context with Everything Else we knew the russians were doing to interfere with the election, and just the historical practices of the russians who typically almost genetically driven to coopt, penetrate, gain favor, whatever, which is a typical russian typical russian technique. So we were concerned. And this is whats likely triggered the fbis now extra attention to Jared Kushner that weve been reporting thereat they believe he has more information. Theyre saying hes not a target. It would have been intelligence like this that would have triggered it . I think so. I think john alluded to his concerns that the fbi is the proper channel. I have to say at the time i left i did not see any smoking gun evidence of collusion, but it certainly was appropriate for given all the signs, certainly appropriate for the fbi to necessary for the fbi to investigate. Sergey kislyak, does the u. S. Believe hes basically an agent of the fsb, the old kgb . Given the fact he oversees a very aggressive intelligence operation in this country, the russians have more intelligence operatives than any other nation as are represented in this country, still even after we got rid of 35 of them. So to suggest that he is somehow separate or oblivious to that is a bit much. Why didnt we kick him out . Why didnt he specifically get sanctioned . If he basically is vwed not as the ambassador to a country, not as a diplomat, but basically the american head of an intelligence agency, sort of what you just described . Im reflecting an intelligence perspective. Intelligence people are paid to be suspicious and, of course, that whether to expel people or declare them png is at least in the last administration was an interagency determination. And so what we did do is get at 35 of the more notorious intelligence operatives and ask them to leave quickly. One of the caveats in the Washington Post bombshell story was the russians frequently will do misinformation. Even in intel channels. How often does that happen . How likely is it in this case . It happens a lot. It happens overtly and covertly and certainly that was one of the tools that the russians used in the runup to our election was fake news, misinformation, paying trolls to insert phony information in social media. So this is a Standard Practice of the russians and the soviets before them. If Jared Kushners meeting was somebody that you referred to as oversees a large intelligence operation, and while you said you didnt see any smoking gun on collusion, how close to the line is that, in your mind . Well, it certainly arouses the arouses your concern about whats going on. Given, you know, russia, at least for my money, is our primary adversary. They are not our friends. They are in to do us in. And i say as well, chuck, you we have kind of a timehonored custom in this country that we have one president , one administration at a time. And on swrn cocoming administra dont get a head start before the end of the current president s income bansy. What would you like to see . Whats the appropriate action now that you would like to see take place against russia . Is sanctions enough at this point . Well, i think really not for me to say what happens now. I think certainly sanctions are a compelling, powerful weapon. The russians dont like them. And i think what the last administration the actions the last administration took, the sctions and other actions on the 29th of december, i always thought of as a first step and i havent seen any change in the russian behavior anywhere that would merit a relaxation, and if anything, an increase in those sanctions. As weve learned more about more has become public about what theyre going to do. And as i said at the senator grahams subcommittee hearing, l the 8th of may, they are only emboldened. Theyre going to continue to interfere in our political process. To me, thats the big story here in what American People should be concerned about. James clapper,vy to leave it there. Former director of National Intelligence. Somebody i think people are getting used to. Youre almost going to be referred to as a member of congress. We see you up there oh, i hope not. Yes. Anyway. Mr. Clapper. Thanks for coming on and sharing your views. Thank, chuck. When we come back, much more on the russia investigation. Plus, republican gianforte who infamously body slammed a reporter won that congressional race in nth mmontana. The democrats closed the gap. Which party hz more reason to smile this weekend . First, i told you before our last break, we continue to honor those who have fallen since last memorial day. Whether youre after supreme performance. Advanced intelligence. Or breathtaking style. Theres a cclass just for you. Decisions, decisions, decisions. Lease the c300 sedan for 399 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. We rbut we are not victims. Ack. We are survivors. We are survivors. We are survivors. And now we take brilinta. For people whove been hospitalized for a heart attack. We take brilinta with a baby aspirin. No more than one hundred milligrams. As it affects how well brilinta works. 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Longtime wisconsin radio guy and msnbc political analyst. Amy walter of the cook political report. Joy reid, host of a. M. Joy on msnbc and kimberly strassel, columnist for the wall street journal. The president is tweeting this morning. Lets get people up to speed on this. Motte specif not specific what hes referring to. Youll get an idea. Starts with my opinion many of the leaks coming out of the white house are fabricated lies made up by the Fake News Media. Whenever you say sources say in the Fake News Media and dont mention names, its possible the sources dont exist but are made up by fake news writers. Fake news is the enemy. Okay, amy walter. It is now theres not a specific. We dont want to assume hes referring to a specific story. Likely its to what is going on with his soninlaw. Theres no doubt. Look, i think what were learning is we dont know that theres a fire but there is a whole lot of smoke and that cloud is blocking everything. And i think if youre the president right now trying to get back on course, you thought that going overseas, having a foreign trip, nine days, this was going to reset. We were going to be talking about that trip today. Were not talking at all about the nine days he spent overseas. Were talking about whats been happening here. Were going to continue to talk about it. I think the most important thing one of the most important things you talked about with senator corker is the fact this black cloud is also blocking out what he needs to reset, what republicans need to see rhe reset, getting points on the board, something happen legislatively. They have a Republican House and senate and white house and nothing is moving. One thing that has passed, the House Health Care bill, not particularly popular. Its stuck in legislative purgatory now in the senate. All those other things, tax reform, the budget, theyre not going anywhere, either. If youre a member thinking about running for reelection in 2018, youre not just worried about the russia piece, but what are you going to talk about web when you go home over the next recess about what youve actually been able to accomplish . By the way, charlie sykes, weve been hearing all weekend long we get our weekly, hey, theres going to be a staff shakeup story. I feel like its weekly and it doesnt happen. There has been all sorts of chatter, the president is going to have somebody vetting his tweets. Well, i think theyve gotten to him in this case. He used the phrase it is my opinion before putting all of that out about fabricated lies. We did a cursory search. Hes never used that phrase or i think in his tweets before so far going back as president. You might almost think these were lowenergy tweets from the president. But it does look like, you know, we know the president has lawyered up. Are the lawyers now going to looking at this tweets . Look, the nightmare for the white house, this is not an alignment of the plants, its a collision of the planets. You have the fily, youave the finances, were not talking talking about drip, drip, drip, anymore. Its a torrent. Its going to be exponentially raised by the fact now its Jared Kushner and listening to the folks you had on earlier, the reluctance of republicans or members of the administration to criticize Jared Kushner because this is family. This is one of the reasons why you avoid nepotism generally in business and politics because hes the one guy you cannot fire. Hes so close to the president. This raises the threat level exponentially. Kim . I think we are having a discussion that is absolutely divorced from reality this week. It is astonishing. Let me set the scene for you. Its 2008. Were having an election and candidate obama, hes not even president elect, sends William Miller over to iran to establish a back channel and let the iranians know that should he win the election, they will have friendlier terms. Okay. So this is a private citizen going to foreign soil. Obviously in order to evade u. S. Intelligence monostoitoring and establishing a back channel. With a sworn enemy of the United States who was actively disrupting our efforts of the military in the middle east. So is that bad judgment . Is that a bad thing that happened . Back channels are completely normal. They happen all the time. Reagan did them. Obama did them. Everyone did. So im n sure wh obviously the president is now elected, setting up a back channel with the russians is somehow out of bounds. Well, heres one key difference. In october, months before this latest meeting, and it was 1 of 18 separate contacts that we now know of between the Trump Campaignrussia, our primary adversary in the world also a superpower. In october the collective judgment of the 17 intelligence agencies is russia had been taking active measures to interfere on our elections. Quite a difference, we dont think iran was doing that. We know thast that was happening in october. So in december the now president elect decides hes going to name james mattis to be his secretary of defense but he doesnt open a back channel. He sends his Real Estate Developer soninlaw, supposedly, or the Real Estate Developer soninlaw decides to open this back channel its not a back channel. This isnt how it works. You dont go to the adversary country and say lets set something up inside your secure facility in your embassy to evade our Intelligence Services, sorry, we set it up inside your secure facility which even takes them aback because thats bizarre, the idea were going to do this on your facility. You send them to do that without mattis, Real Estate Developer who has no Foreign Policy experience whatsoever, and if its a channel about opening up negotiations in terms of something realistic, in terms of something about Foreign Policy, why are they also back channeling with a bank . A kremlinconnected russian bank . And why is the reuters report saying that part of the discussion was the possibility of opening up opportunities for financing for trumprelated we dont know the answer to any of those questions because what were getting here that is not a back channel. You have to follow the money. You have to follow the meetings. The lies. The attempts to derail we dont have any of that information. To derail this investigation and the reality here is that Jared Kushner and the Trump Administration apparently trusted the russians more than the Intelligence Community. How can this not be suspicious . Why would you trust im sorry, by the way, like, we cant forget that the Intelligence Services and also the Defense Department were being run by the Obama Administration. They had plenty of reason not to necessarily want the Obama Administration to know what they were doing. What did they want to hide . This is suspicious as minimum. What did they want to talk about . Why would you use russian facilities . Why would you not maybe want to have all these people in these departments with this information which they go on to leak on a daily basis in the coming months sorry, the election was over. To try to derail your presidency . In this country we have a continuity of government. We hand over peacefully power from one party to another. All the time. Are you telling me that the now elected Trump Administration didnt trust john brennan, somehow the straightarrow guys are going to work to actively undermine . Are they now seeing them as some sort of dissident . That has never happened in the history of the United States. One of the most interesting pieces of news was the fisa court, they said the Obama Administration had been actively engaged in abusing 4th amendment protections by unasking peoples identities on a routine basis which they did not acknowledge to the court and which they said brought up major, major concerns. Maybe you wouldnt trust that team. Who said that . What is the source of that information . Do you how difficult it is to get a fisa warrant against an american person . Youre not talking about what i just mentioned. Im going to pause this conversation because i do have to go to break, because i do have to pay for bills. We are a forprofit enterprise. Coming up, Hillary Clintons first fullthroated criticism of President Trump. Even denying things we see with our own eyes like the size of crowds. But as we go to break, we continue to honor our fallen men and women in uniform from the last year. Former men and women in uniforms from last year. Hey, man. Oh nice man cave nacho . [ train whistle blows ] what . stop it mmhmm. Weve been saving a lot of money ever since we switched to progressive. This bar is legit. And now we get an even bigger discount from bundling home and auto. I can get used to this. It might take a minute. Swing and a miss slam dunk touchdown together sports hey team, i know were tight on time, but i really need a. Sick day tomorrow. Moms dont take sick days. Moms take nyquil severe the. Nighttime sniffling,sneezing, coughing, aching, fever best. Sleep with a cold, medicine. Theres nothing more than my vacation. Me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. Booking. Com gets it. They offer free cancellation if my plans change. Visit booking. Com. Booking. Yeah. When heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. Fast relief in every bite. Crunchy outside. Chewy inside. Tum tum tum tum new tums chewy bites. Welcome back. Data download time. Is donald trump remaking the party or was the party remaking itself in a way to allow trump to walk in . Our guru analyzed nbc news wall street journal trending. In 2010, 41 of College Graduates called themselves republican. 39 said they were democrat. In 2016, that number was 39 for the republican, a twopoint drop. 35 for the democrats. A sixpoint jump. Actually a big swing overall when you look at it. Democrats now have the edge with College Educated voters. Reverse, of course, is true with those of a High School Degree or less. Republicans have seen a fivepoint jump with that group while democrats have seen a fivepoint drop. Also a pretty significant swing. This education gap follows some geographic trends weve been following. It helps explain, for instance, why some of the most vulnerable republican districts have the highest education rates like the special election were watching in the 6th district of georgia outside of atlanta. Other areas where republicans have seen the most grow, men over the age of 50 up 5 points. Rural voters also up five points. Those between the ages of 50 and 64 are now 4 points more republican than 7 years ago. For the democrats theres been a sevenpoint jump in those making 30,000 to 50,000 per year, sort of smack dab in the middle class there. 18 to 34yearolds, not just millennials but gen z up six points and those with postgraduate degrees also up six points. Bottom line, were in the political realignment, in the middle of it. Thats why its not clean and its going to take more than one election to figure this out. These trends do help explain why barack obama won two terms and frankly why donald trump won in november. This process is still fluid and making our elections a bit more unpredictable than we have become used to. Before we go to break, we want to note the passing of former senator and hall of fame pitcher, jim bunning, who died yesterday at the age yesterday at the ith age of 85. He was the only member of congress to throw a perfect game in the major leagues. And we lost a member of our extended nbc family, former National Security adviser to president jimmy carter zbigniew brzezinski. He emigrated from poland, a scholar and moved to the white house, maintained an enduring suspicion of the soviet union and worked tirelessly to limit soviet expansionism in the late 1970s. Our thoughts go out to our colleague mika and her entire family who tweeted friday night, chief at the helm, we love you, dad, and will always be grateful for the love and devotion you showed us all. Grateful for the devotion that you showed us all. Coming up, meet the press endgame and post game, brought to you by boeing, always working to build something better. 80 percent of recurrent ischemic strokes could be prevented with the right steps. And take it from me, every step counts. A bayer aspirin regimen is one of those steps in helping prevent another stroke. Be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. Its just a burst pipe, i co laugh it. No. With claim rateguard your rates wont go up just because of a claim. I totally couldve no switching to allstate is worth it. You know how painful heartburn can be. For fastacting, longlasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. It quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours. Relieve heartburn with fast acting, longlasting gaviscon. Meet the press endgame is brought to you by boeing, always working to build something better. Endgame, political speed round here. We got to try to get all of this stuff in. Montana, amy walter, you do this for a living. Youre the handicapper here on house races. Yes. Republicans win by 6 points in a state that has a democratic senator, but looks demographically more like a trump state. Who should feel good right now . It is like pee wee soccer, everybody gets a trophy. On the republican side, they got a win they win, period. This is not just good because of they have a person in that seat, who is a republican, but good for recruiting and retaining. This is the time of year where people are trying to get candidates to run, donors to support candidates and getting members who are incumbents to run for reelection. So, a toxic environment, bad for those things, winning good, helps, on the republican side. The bad side, youre a democrat, what youre looking forward to is the margin in a lot of these special elections. A lot narrower, closer, democrats overperforming, where a traditional democrat could be. Five points here in montana, 12 points in kansas, if democrats are going to take control of the house, they got to overperform nationally, somewhere between 5 and 8 points. It is not going to help in a deep red state like montana to overperform by 5, it will help in the lighter shade. Charlie, it seems as if georgia is now a must win. For the democrats, isnt it . Very much so, in terms of setting the narrative. The real significance of what happened in montana was we moved the line. We moved the line in terms of acceptable behavior. Youre referring to the body slamming. And the body slamming itself was not as significant as the reaction to the body slamming. The way in which so many conservatives, so many republicans felt that tribal loy ty demanded they rationalize this. And what is happening is this whether you want to call donald trump the role model in chief, the fact is, you have so many now republicans and conservatives and im one of them, you know, who model their behavior after this, the thin skin, thin skinned nastiness that mimics confidence. Let me throw in, mark sanford put a voice to this, republican from south carolina, respectfully i submit the president has unearthed some demons. Ive talked to a number of people about it back home. Hes given them license. Do you buy this . I dont think you can blame the body slamming of a reporter on President Trump. It is true. We look to a president to set tones and standards and i think all of us would be happier if President Trump was in general exuding a little bit more of a respectful tone to everybody. Look, people like hes blunt spoken, and thats fine, but there is a difference between being blunt spoken or crude, and discourteous in politics. Words have consequences. Words have meaning. Ideas have consequences. It is one thing to, i think, be upset with the bias of the news media, but we moved the line now to just pure raw loathing and hes stoked those fires. Last word. You had donald trump this morning tweet that journalists, presumably, journalists at the Washington Post and new york post, make up and invent sources. During the campaign, one of the mosthilling images that stuck with me from it is a gentleman at a trump rally who had a tshirt on that said rope, tree, journalist, trump whipped people up to attack the media. Anyone at a trump rally experienced it, hes the head of the party, sets the tone. Thats all i have for today. Jammed week. Have a happy and safe memorial day weekend. Well be back next week because if its sunday, its meet the press. With this grade of protection. Its a fortress. And with this standard of luxury. Its an oasis. The 2017 eclass. Its everything you need it to be. And more. 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