Transcripts For MSNBCW Meet The Press 20140216

Creating new urgency to take on Climate Change . Im going to speak to two people on opposite sides of the issue. Bill nye the science guy and republican congresswoman Marsha Blackburn of tennessee. Plus, the terror threats in sochi. How is russian president Vladimir Putin cracking down . Richard engel has a look at exclusive ways theyve cracked down on security. And were going to look at the cost of the games both financially and politically as we watch the competitions and the pageantry. How much is it worth . Im going to have an exclusive conversation, interview with the man who ran the games is salt lake city, former president ial nominee mitt romney. Im joined now by our roundtable. Chuck todd is here and new to the roundtable is chief White House Correspondent for the Associated Press julie pace. David axelrod and also new to the roundtable as long as ive known her, former Communications Director for president bush, nicolle wallace. Welcome to all of you. I want to start with the olympics, chuck todd. There is a genuine patriotic moment that happened on the ice, the shot heard around the world. Oshie. It was the sixth round of the shootout. Eighth round. Eighth round. Usarussia hockey and the shot which we can show here of that final shootout which is always great in a hockey game. And what a moment, but poor jonathan quick. Pretty good goaltending, too. Oshie, yes. And its not the sports moment and this moment of patriotism comes at a time when the this sensitivity between russia and the United States is real. Thats what struck me about it. This suddenly collective almost cold waresque rallying, and thats why there was so, it seemed as if there was such relief to beat putin. And putin was in the audience. My god, it was like rocky iv met the miracle on ice. Wheres drago . The only thing, and im sure you must have felt a little bit of this. The only weird thing, as a capitals fan, you see ovechkin once again on the losing side of the game. David, you do remember this cold war moment in the miracle on ice. A new generation watching the olympics. Yet, that sensitivity is real at a time of reset in our relationship with russia, what played out there was a genuine moment of we triumphed over the russians. Part of it is that putin is trying to reset the reset. He seems nostalgic for the old days. The fact he was there, we want him to see it. A shoutout to the patrick kane from the blackhawks who was instrumental in the victory, as well. I dont care about the capitals. Did you watch . Were you caught up in it . I saw the highlights. I think this dynamic with putin is so interesting to have him in the stands. We think of our athletes from being walled off from domestic politics, international politics, but theyre very aware. Its that sixth sense of what theyre fighting for. We talk about the bush years. You go back to that time when after 9 11, there was this feeling that somehow russia was in the u. S. Orbit in a way it hadnt been before. To watch over the course of the bush presidency that to fall away and get to a point where things are as strained as they are now, its a compelling backdrop to all of that. We talk about the olympics, not just the competition but the security backdrop and the terror threats in sochi. I want to go to Nbcs Richard Engel live with exclusive details about russias security crackdown. Good to see you, richard. Good to see you, david. I was actually in the stadium yesterday during that usa russia hockey game and i can tell you it was a very exciting moment. In terms of security, so far so good and the arrangements in place reveal a great deal about Vladimir Putin and how he runs this vast country, especially the north caucuses. The most threatened olympic in modern history has so far been safe, not because of the ring of steel around sochi. We traveled to the north caucasus, the heart of russias insurgency and saw how Vladimir Putin is using a combination of crackdowns and payoffs to secure the games. This is grozny today, the capital of chechnya, clean, modern, a downtown that lights up like the vegas strip. Russia flattened this place twice in the 1990s when chechnya tried to breakaway after the collapse of the soviet union. At groznys new Central Mosque we met the man who runs chechnya, ramzan kadyrov. It was a special day, a lock of hair believed to come from the muslim prophet mohammed was on display. The relic brought kadyrov to tears. Hes deeply religious and has aligned himself with russia. Two days later, we visited kadyrovs palace for a rare interview. Very nice to meet you. The city of grozny was famous for being completely destroyed. It has now been rebuilt. How did you rebuild the city . Translator we were tired of the war, of looking at the destroyed towns and villages. We asked for gods help and we constructed the entire republic. He also gets billions from putin and lives like a king with toys, a private zoo, model helicopters. This is your private gym. And as we discovered an interview with kadyrov is exhausting. This is his boxing ring. Youre not expecting me to get in with you, are you . Yes, he was. And kadyrov wasnt finished yet. He likes to show off but hes also feared in chechnya and is accused of ordering the deaths of his adversaries. People call you a dictator in chechnya. How do you respond to those critics . Translator everything the newspapers say is nonsense. Opponents say hes brutal but islamic militants, including the groups that threaten sochi, have mostly fled chechnya, some for the neighboring republic of dagestan. When we visited there, we found a poor and drab place. Where putins forces are hunting down suspected extremists. No carrots here. Just a stick. A war that athletes and fans will never see just over the mountains from the olympic park. Its too early, david, to celebrate a complete security success. Theres still a week to go till closing ceremonies. Richard engel, thanks so much this morning. Im joined now by the man who headed up the Olympic Games the last time they were here in the u. S. , former governor of massachusetts and republican president ial nominee in 2012, mitt romney. Governor, welcome back to meet the press. Thanks, david. Good to see you. I want to ask you about the security threats. Last weekend on one of the sunday programs, the chair of the House Homeland Security Committee Said about the games in russia, he fears that something electric detonate, something will blow up. Do you think the security concerns have been overblown . No, i think theyre very real when you have the kind of specific threats that were leveled at the games, you have to take them seriously. At the same time, i think russia has shown not only through the application of their security forces, but also, through their intelligence work that they have the capacity to keep the games reasonably safe. Theres no such thing as 100 guarantee, but i think at this stage, people feel pretty comfortable that the games will be safe. Where youve been critical of the russian government is 50 billion that it spent to host these games in sochi, and you wrote a really pointed oped about it this week. Ill put a portion on the screen. You write, if a country wants to show off, whats the harm . Waste is harm, particularly when need is as great as it is, harm occurs when a country spends more than it can afford to keep up appearances with big spenders, harm occurs when a country is excluded from hosting an olympics because it cant afford the fabulous frills and harm occurs when the worlds poor look in anguish at the excess. Time to limit that excess and why . Well, i really think so because you dont need to spend 50 billion as russia has or as china did to put an olympic sport. Olympic sport can be demonstrated at 2 billion or 3 billion. And all that extra money could be used to do some very important things in terms of fighting poverty and fighting disease around the world. Thats what we really ought to be using those resources for as opposed to wasting them in many cases to show off a country or i think more cynically to show off the politicians in the country. And to take money from some people so that politicians can be puffed up and shown around the world i think is something which is very distasteful at a time when theres so much poverty and so much need. Do you think putin views it as worth it . I assume hes among the politicians youre talking about being puffed up on the world stage. Oh, i think theres no question but that the politicians who take this money and spend 50 billion to host the world for tv appearances, i think they think its worth it or they wouldnt spend it. A lot of that money certainly could be going into corruption, as well and paying off various folks. Its a very unsavory thing. I think the International Olympic committee is going to have to take action to limit how much is spent on Olympic Games. In terms of city cities like boston vying for future games, definitely worth it, you would say go for it, dont pass up the opportunity . Its a great experience to host an Olympic Games. Everybody that touches the olympics that ive ever seen has said it was one of the greatest experiences of their life. Not because of all the fun they had, but because of all the service they were able to give to others. Its a Great Unifying thing. Boston would love it if the games came home. Let me talk to you about politics and, of course, the issue of gay rights around the world, particularly in russia has been part of the backdrop of these games. You think about the issue of samesex marriage in america. Ten years ago, almost to the month, it was massachusetts when you were governor that really set a samesex marriage rights into motion, and you wrote about it at the time rather pointedly where you said after that decision by the court, the definition of marriage is not a matter of semantics. It will have Lasting Impact on society. Ten years later as youve seen samesex marriage now in 17 states and the district of columbia, has it is had a negative impact on society in it your judgment . Well, i think marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman. And i think the ideal setting for raising a child is in a setting where theres a father and a mother. Now, there are many other different settings that children are raised in and people have the right to live their life as they want to, but i think marriage should be defined in the way it has been defined for several thousand years, and if gay couples want to live together, thats fine, as well. Thats their right. Let me follow up, do you think its had a negative impact on society that you have so many states now recognizing it . Oh, i think its going to take a long, long time to determine whether having gay marriage will make it less likely for kids to be raised in settings where theres a mom and a dad. Thats not going to happen overnight. Its something that happens over generations in fact, and again, i think the ideal setting is where theres a mom and dad that can invest air time and resources in supporting the development of a child. As you look at the progression of this issue as a republican, do you think republicans have lost the fight politically over this . You know, i dont know that you have to worry about who wins and who loses a particular fight. I think you stand for various principles. You communicate those to the American People, and they either support those or not. Sometimes if something is lost, you move on to the next issue. You wish youd have won that one but you move on. I think in this case, it continues to be an issue that people find relevant and important and something which is being considered in various states across the country. I do believe, by the way, that its best decided by the people rather than by the courts. I think when the courts step in and make a decision of this nature, theyre removing from the people something they have the right to decide themselves. 2016 politics is a topic that keeps coming up for you. Ill ask about you in a minute. But i want to ask about the democrat. And the prospect of Hillary Clinton running. It is interesting. Senator rand paul started on meet the press and has said it elsewhere that basically the clintons should be judged on bill clinton, impeachment, his relationship with monica lewinsky. He called him a sexual predator. Is the prospect of a Hillary Clinton candidacy, should that be judged on the record personal and otherwise of bill clinton, do you think . Well, i dont think bill clinton is as relevant as Hillary Clinton if Hillary Clinton decides to run for president. And in her case, i think of people will look at her record as the secretary of state and say during that period of time, did our relations with nations around the world elevate america and elevate our interests or were they receding. I think her record is what will be judged upon, not the records of her husband. Its interesting that the Republican Party now on its website is really resurrecting the 90s and part of that message is keep the clintons out of the white house again. Do you see this as a pair and not just Hillary Clinton . I think Hillary Clinton, if she becomes the nominee, will have plenty to discuss about her own record. I dont imagine that bill clinton is going to be a big part of it. That being said, the times when he was president were by and large positive Economic Times for the country. On the other hand, he embarrassed the nation. He breached his responsibility i think as an adult and as a leader in his relationship. And i think thats very unfortunate, but i dont think thats Hillary Clintons to explain. She has her own record, her own vision for where she would take the country. I think thats something which we debated extensively during the 2016 campaign. What about mitt romney . When the question was posed as the New York Times reported it, january 19th it, romney asked if he would consider a third president ial run and the answer, are oh, no, no, no, no. I cant count all the nos. Maybe you should be more definitive. Is there something, governor, that might make you change your mind . Reagan ran three times, didnt he . You know, im not ronald reagan. Thats been pointed out to me before. And im not running for president. Weve got some very good people who are considering the race, and im looking forward to supporting someone who i think will have the best shot of defeating whoever it is the democrats put up. I know youve said theres quite a stable of folks. But i want to go back to this documentary that was made about you and your candidacy allowing rare access in, and you addressed this issue of what would happen if you lost, and i wonder well take a look and ill ask you about your impact on the debate going forward. Watch this clip. If i get beaten up, that goes with the territory. And i have looked by the way at what happens to anybody who loses the general election. They become a loser for life, all right. All right . Its over. Mike dukakis cant get a job mowing lawns. We just brutalize whoever loses. I know that. I know that. And so, im going in with my eyes open. Do you see yourself as a loser for life or rather do you think that you have a real impact on the future of the Republican Party . Well, maybe i was exaggerating somewhat in that clip, but i think by and large, people who lose a president ial race are they step aside. In my case, he had the blessing of having a big family and im actually spending time with my kids and i enjoy that a great deal. I do also hope to continue to have an impact on the country and our way forward. Im very concerned about america. For a lot of reasons. In i think on monday, its the fiveyear anniversary of the president signing a stimulus bill that was supposed to get unemployment below 5 . And here we are with millions of people have dropped out of the employment system. Were finding ourselves less competitive globally. Our deficits continue to be a real burden for the American People. These are things i care about. And just because i lost the president ial race doesnt mean im not going to keep fighting for the American People and for a future thats more prosperous than what weve seen over the last five years. You saw usa hockey beat the russians yesterday. Thats not the end of the story. Do you think theyll win gold . Boy, i sure hope so and i think so. Theres such heart and passion with our athletes there in sochi. I know were not getting as many medals as i would have liked to have seen, but i have been very very proud of watching our athletes. When shaun white, for instance, didnt get that medal, he showed a level of maturity and thoughtfulness and sportsmanship that i think was a model for people around the world. So yeah, go usa. Im very excited to watch these hockey games. Well, said. Governor romney, thanks so much for your views. Always a pleasure to have you. Thanks, david. Good to be with you. Now i want to turn to the politics of weather. What a big story this week. And this morning, in jakarta, indonesia, secretary of state john kerry gave the first in a series of speeches on Climate Change saying it is threatening the worlds way of life. Im going to discuss the debate over Climate Change policies in just a moment with science educator bill nye and the science guy and republican congresswoman from tennessee Marsha Blackburn. But first, is the growing cost of our recent weather disasters creating a new focus on the need for action on Climate Change . This weeks storm left half a million georgians without power at its peak, buried cities in snow and ice, stranded flyers and practically shuttered the capital. Extreme cold has frozen Lake Superior to levels not seen in decade and led to ice caves off the water. In california, prolonged drought gripping 90 of the state has parched crops and dried up Food Supplies for livestock. Is it a natural cycle . Is it due to human interference or human conditions that we have created . That remains open to debate. But there is no doubt the climate is changing. President obama toured a fresno farm friday to tout federal support to address californias water crisis. In his state of the union speech, he was adamant. The debate is settled. Climate change is a fact. The extreme weather is not limited to the United States. Massive flooding has left large parts of england underwater over the past two months. The chief scientist of uks National Weather service said all the evidence suggests Climate Change is to blame. Skeptics say the forecasts of doom and gloom are overblown. After you adjust for the fact that there are so many more People Living in so many more places, theres no change in weatherrelated damages. Bill nye and Marsha Blackburn, welcome to meet the press. Good to be with you. Thanks, david. Thank you. So here was the Guardian Newspaper after all of the flooding in the uk and heres the headline, Climate Change is here now, it could lead to global conflict if the politicians squabble. In the Scientific Community, this is not a debate whether Climate Change is real. The consensus is that it is. The majority of those who believe that it is caused by humans. There are certainly some in the Scientific Community who dont believe thats the case. And who are skeptical about some of those conclusions. But nevertheless, there is still this level of consensus. My question to begin with both of you is, in this moment of this kind of extreme weather moment, is it creating new urgency to act . Bill nye, ill start with you. Well, i would say yeah, and what ive always said we need to do everything all at once. This is an opportunity for the United States to innovate, to be the world leader in new technologies that if you could invent a better battery, a better way to store electricity, you would change the world and if you were to do that in a way that you could manufacture and export it, you would also do very well financially. Congresswoman, is there new urgency to act . Youve heard the president any drought stricken california saying these weather emergencies in effect are creating the conditions the government has to act. David, i think that what it brings to mind is how we utilize the information that we have. And we all know and i think that bill would probably agree with this. Neither he nor i are a Climate Science. He is an engineer, an actor. Im a member of congress and what we have to do is look at the information that we get from climate scientists. As you said, there is not agreement around the fact of exactly what is causing this, even the president s own science and Technology Office had mr. Holdren says no one single weather event is due specifically to Climate Change. So it drives the policy to look at cost benefit analysis, what we do about it and the impact that u. S. Policy would have in a global environment. Well, and thats another question that i want to get to. But there is consensus, as you say, congresswoman, there is some skepticism about the degree to which humans may cause Climate Change or can you specifically say a weather event can be blamed on Climate Change . Some disagreement with that within the uk. Nevertheless, within the Scientific Community, there is consensus, bill nye, among the scientists themselves on both of those questions. Well, got to say once again, what people are doing is introducing the idea that scientific uncertainty in this case about cold weather events and what we call back east are is the same as uncertainty about the whole idea of Climate Change. And this is unscientific. Its not logical. It is a way apparently that the fossil fuel industry has dealt with our politics. And this is not good. Everybody this is not you dont need a ph. D. In Climate Science to understand whats going on, that thing that we have overwhelming evidence that climate is changing. That you cannot tie any one event to that is not the same as doubt about the whole thing. But is the issue, congresswoman, the cure or the disease and whats worse . Heres the atlantic magazine on some of the views within your party within the Republican Party on Global Warming conservative policy positions often seem to be conduplicated or confused with rejection of the consensus that the plant has been warming due to human Carbon Emissions. The vast majority do not reject the science of Global Warming. The catch, conservatives believe many of the policies put forward to address the problem will lead to unacceptable levels of economic hardship. The fix can be very expensive in the short term for longterm gain. Well, i think what you have to do is look at what that warming is. And when you look at the fact that we have gone from 320 parts per million, 0. 032 to 0. 040, 400 parts per million, what you do is realize its very slight. Now, there is not consensus, and you can look at the latest ipcc report and look at dr. Lindzen from m. I. T. His rejection of that or judith curry who recently from georgia tech. There is not consensus there. I think what we have to do hold on. I just have to interrupt you. Let me interrupt you because its not you can pick out particular skeptics but you cant really say, can you, that the hundreds of scientists around the world have gotten together and conspired to manipulate data and that industry folks, like pg e, a natural gas producer saying as a provider of gas and electricity to millions of californians and emitter of greenhouse gases, pg e is keenly aware of its responsibility to both manage emissions and work to advance policies that put our state and the country on a Cost Effective path toward a low carbon economy. So the issue is what actions are taken and will they really work. First to you, congresswoman, and let me have bill nye respond. Youre right. Lets say everything that bill says is wrong is wrong. Lets just say that. Then you say what are you going to do about it . What would the policy be and will that policy have an impact . Now, even director mccarthy from the epa in answering questions from congressman pompeo before our Committee Said reaching all of the 26 u. S. Goals is not going to have an impact globally. And david, what we have to look at is the fact that you dont make good laws, sustainable laws when youre making them on hypothesis or theories or unproven siciences. Bill nye . Well, once again, the congresswoman is trying to introduce doubt, and doubt in the whole idea of Climate Change. So what i would encourage everybody to do is back up and lets agree on the facts. Would you say that the antarctic has less ice than it used to . When you asserted, congresswoman, that a change from 320 to 400 parts per million is insignificant . My goodness, thats 30 . I mean, thats an enormous change, and its changing the world. Thats just over the last few decades. You go back to 1750 with the invention of the steam engine. It everybodys been over this a lot, its gone from 250 to 400. There is no debate in the Scientific Community. And i can encourage the Congress Woman to really look at the facts. You are a leader. We need you to change things, not deny whats happening. Let me inject this point. I want to inject this point. Weather event is important. I want to stick to the point about whats going to happen in the future with policy. Yeah. The reality is that something is happening. And in whether youre along the east coast, if you look at all the money that was spent on infrastructure after Hurricane Sandy or you look at flooding, you have state and local governments, congresswoman, who have to deal with the realities of Climate Change and its expensive. Youre right. Youre very concerned about the future of our debt. Theres a lot of cost involved here. How does government responsibly even where there might be differences on the policy and cure respond to the very realtime impacts of weather and a changing climate . Thats exactly right. It is expensive when you look at the cleanup. David, one of the things we have to remember is cost benefit analysis has to take place. And that is something that goes back to a clinton executive order. And it is required. And it is unfortunate that some of the federal agencies are not conducting that cost benefit analysis. Theyre focused on the outcome. And they need whether its the epa, whether it is the science and technology agencies, they need to be doing that cost benefit analysis. Now, you know, when you look at the social cost of carbon and there is a lot of ambiguity around that, what you also need to be doing also is looking at the benefits of carbon. A lot of good study out there about that, and scientists and biologists have done that study. One of the things, bill nye, if you look at the polling on this, this is the issue of what do you do about something that to many people is very important but for a lot of voters may not feel urgent. Look at the pew research poll, Global Warming ranking 19th on that list. Yet, environmentalists seen buoyed by the fact that the president says with executive orders to curb Carbon Emissions from power plants, will take care of, Via Executive action, twothirds of the carbon thats emitted into the atmosphere in the United States. Is that an acceptable solution without political consensus . Well, that will be up to the politicians. Certainly the longest journey starts with but which a single step. We all have to acknowledge that we have a problem. I think it would be in everybodys best interests. I was born in the u. S. Im a patriot. And so on. It would be in everybodys best interest to get going to do as i like to say everything all at once. So the fewer very dirty coal fired power plants we have, the better. The less energy we waste, the better. The less inefficient our Transportation Systems are, the better. The more reliable our electricity transmission systems are, the better. And so, we all get into this thing that big governments are bad. I know thats a very strong claim that for me, as a voter and taxpayer, is somehow tied to Climate Change. But what we want to do is not just less. We want to do more with less, and for me, as a guy who grew up in the u. S. , i want the u. S. To lead the world in this rather than wait while you made reference to the united kingdom, what china is doing with energy production, solar energy production. This is a huge the more we mess around with this denial, the less were going to get done. I want to be specific, though, congresswoman. As you know as i just outlined, the president is proposing regulations. This is executive action. How do you respond to that as a member of congress who doesnt agree with the policy . I think the president should realize congress has taken action. Whether it was cap and trade or any of these regulations we have said no to that. And one of the reasons is the cost benefit analysis and another is the impact. Look what is happening around the world. Bill doesnt like coal fired electricity plants. Youve got 1,200 coming up in other nations right now. And what we need to be looking at is the way to achieve efficiencies. Carbon emissions are at the lowest theyve been since 1994. The reason for that is efficiencies. We need to look at the cost benefit analysis and make certain these technologies are affordable for the American People. We are going to leave it there. This debate goes on. I thank you for your time this morning, both of you. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Okay. Coming up next here, back to the neverending squabbles in washington, not just over Climate Change. The fight over the debt ceiling, as well. Gop cavein or compromise . Plus fighting words from joe biden about the republicans. I wish there was a Republican Party. 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Im not sure theres complete agreement. I dont know that we heard complete agreement there. The fact is, i think we all have to concede when you have a flood of a century, the storm of the century, the fire of the century on an annual basis, droughts of the century, somethings happening and its serious. The problem with this is it requires longterm solutions. We dont have a political system that copes with shortterm sacrifice for longterm solutions. Julie, i know within the white house, their feeling and john podesta has worked on this issue, extreme weather event is the way in to getting something done because states and local government do have to deal with the cost of that. Thats the way to tackle Climate Change. Absolutely. Its Something Real people feel also impacts their daily lives and they look at the money that their state or city is having to spend on this, but in terms of actual action, i had i were still at eight point where you and you heard this in the debate its going to be very difficult to imagine congress doing something significant over the next three years. Thats why they focused so much on executive actions, are but there is always going to be a limit to what he can do or any president can do on this matter. Urgent versus important is the question. 41 billion, i think you get it, 41 billion weather events in 2013 around the world. 41, that was an alltime record. Its not just podesta that believes that. There are a lot of people who say, okay, lets not debate whos right. Manmade or just nature thats happening. The fact of the matter its happening. And i wonder if theres too much i know some environmentalists are frustrated with that portion of the debate. But maybe you steer away from it and say it doesnt matter. We have to tackle this infrastructure problem, you got to build higher seawalls in some places, figure out a different way to distribute water in california. The fact of the matter the federal government is going to have to pay for all these things. I wonder if everybody should say lets table this debate. We know whats happening. Table that be part of the debate because when you do that, then it becomes like clubbing each other with political argument that takes away from what we have to do. The politics of weather gets very local as a former president you worked for. When you thank the mayor to fill the potholes. Whether its filling the potholes or responding well responding well to disasters, look at the tabloids in new york this week after the decision to keep the schools open. Let them eat snow. The head of the schools saying its a beautiful day. Theres a price to be paid and big debate about safety and the right call to make when it comes to these storms. As julie said this does affect everyone. I think the debate were having even around this table is about our domestic politics. I think most republicans feel that we could cut off both our arms, both our legs, do everything we can do in this country, hamstring our economy and we still might not make a dent in the problem which i think we all agree on. I think most republicans do acknowledge Global Warming is real and happening. I think in some ways you cartoon the party by suggesting we dont acknowledge its real and happening. During the bush years, you covered president bush, there were global compacts that the United States did not participate in because to not have all of the developing nations on board, we dont actually make a dent. They want to get them on board by the end of next year. Longterm problems that could become legacy issues beyond Climate Change, chuck, youve written about it this week and talked about it and that is syria. The president appearing with frances president hollande talking about the horrendous situation in syria, john mccain saying a future president will apologize for inaction on president obamas watch. Its interesting mccain put it that way. This is consuming president obama in a way we in the press havent been able to fully report on. Sometimes its hard to get inside somebodys head. Advisors admit he knows this policy isnt working. But the country has this sort of iraq syndrome and a similar syndrome that we had with vietnam. So there are certain aspects off the table. Hes frustrated. Putins not you know, the pressure on putin isnt working. Hundreds and thousands of people are dying. He is frustrated. Lets look at his week this week. It was interesting. On one hand they want to talk about minimum wage and their special events on climate and drought, but with hollande, during that state visit, he was admitting his policy isnt working. He never said it but he talked about it. He called it a horrendous situation and talked about the only good news out of geneva 2 is that they both showed up. What was he doing this weekend . Meeting with King Abdullah of jordan who, by the way, this is the biggest economic crisis in his since the refugee issue. This is consuming. They dont have a good answer. You do get the sense at the white house theyre at a point where they have to find something new on syria. So much of the process has been on geneva 2, the diplomatic process to get them to the table. The russians were joining in. There is no way to look at what happened at geneva 2 and say there was anything successful that happened there. There is no military solution. What is the middle ground . Thats the debate right now. I think chuck put his finger on it. The politics are very bad. There is a hangover from iraq and afghanistan. The country is looking inward. Theres not a great interest in this. The president s looking at 100,000 people killed, these horrific images, the refugees and so on, and looking for answers but the country wants him to be focused on the economy and thats a thing that president s have to wrestle with. But your president was the one that said hes going to walk and chew gum. I think the republican moment of i think grave concern about the situation came when he stood in the rose garden after saying that he had drawn a red line and refused to enforce his own red line on chemical weapons. I think that was the moment where republican senators like john mccain and Lindsey Graham who were willing to hold hands with the white house and try to garner that support, the country is weary but i think anyone that has looked at the white house that president s are always. Of course, but first of all, i think they would argue that they made more progress on chemical weapons than they would have had they gone in to intervene. Well never know. The question isnt walking and chewing gum at the same time. The question is, what is a policy that that will work here. That is a complicated issue. But you were saying that people wanted to focus on the economy. People expect him to focus on the economy. Im saying its a matter of public its a matter of how he spends his time in public in front of the camera, people are interested in him focusing on the economy. Its not an excuse. I have no doubt hes spending a lot of time on issue of syria. I dont think its front of mind for the American People. But i think the thing with all these Foreign Policy issues as we all know, they can quickly become front of mind. One of the big concerns youre hearing from both the u. S. And allies overseas is issues of foreign fighters in syria and the impact on the region. So again, the spillover and the managing kind of behind the scenes is so crucial. Theres a lot of things that are hard that require leadership. Clinton looked back at rwanda and said it was a huge mistake. On the other side of that, we have demonstrated under the past decade under president bush the limits of what the United States can accomplish in terms of reengineering countries in the u. S. Image or even a more western image. It becomes very difficult. So does it work . You know, this intervention, does it work even if you fulfill a moral imperative. Youre getting at the something thats essential here. This will be a topic of debate in the 20916 president ial campaign. Has americas standing in the world been harmed by that moment when president obama refused to enforce his own red line . A lot of republicans do not. You draw a red line and youre the leader of the free world and you refuse to enforce it, there are repercussions and thats part of what were saying. Where was the u. S. Congress . This isnt about the u. S. Congress. Look, he didnt you could tell he didnt want to enforce his red line with a military strike. Okay. But he knew he had to do this because he drew the line. He knew he had to do it, but he had no political apparatus support both internationally and domestically. And is so he felt he couldnt. The problem is he didnt make an effort to garner that support. Ive heard that argument. I hear. You let me get a break. Were going to take a break. Coming up, big developments in the samesex marriage. Here in the u. S. , but also at the olympics, the issue of gay rights front and center at the olympics. Where does that debate go from here . Thats coming up next. I truly believe that the ioc will never again choose a country to have the olympics in that doesnt have a good human rights record. The Volkswagen Passat against all comers. Turbocharged engines against. Engines. Best in class rear legroom against otherclass legroom. But then we realized. 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And in russia, the question remains, is this a temporary period of detente or will the cold war on gay rights return once the public games are over . Nbcs harry smith has more. Reporter samesex marriage an equal rights for gays and lesbians took a few more steps to becoming a National Reality last saturday. I will formally instruct all Justice Department employees to give lawful samesex marriages full and equal recognition to the greatest extent possible under the law. Thank you. Reporter while proponents applauded, opponents were dismayed. America is changing. And changing quickly. Michael sam, a star Football Player from the university of missouri, came out this week. A heretofore unthinkable act for a player with pro potential. Im michael sam. Im a Football Player. And im gay. The fact that his teammates all knew and this was an open secret for so long is what really blew me away. Reprter andy cohen is the host of bravos watch what happens live. It seems like in missouri he was judged for how he played on the field, which is exactly how it should be. Reporter which is more than i an measure of tolerance. Its acceptance. Im 45. I grew up not thinking that i could be openly gay in the world. So the idea that im hosting a talk show every night as an openly gay man saying whatever i want to say is incredible to me and the rights that are being afforded to me and whats happening every year, i cant believe whats happening. Reporter a stark contrast to russia where the Olympic Games are being played. Cohen refused to go to russia in november to host the Miss Universe pageant. It seemed very disingenuous of me to go to russia and do a travelogue about what a great time the pageant queens had in moscow, what a wonderful city, when i could be stoned in a square for throwing out a gay flag. Reporter the russians though seemed to be on their best behavior for the olympics. When you watch the olympics now and you see putin in the box, what do you think . When i see putin, my blood boils. You know . I think hes living in a fantasy land where gay people the mayor of sochi said there are no gay people in sochi. There are now, by the way. A lot. Reporter among them, gold medal winner Brian Boitano who was part of the american delegation to the games. By bringing a lot of attention and realizing that other countries like america are moving forward with this, are it brings attention to how theyre not moving forward if they dont agree with this. We are america. Were moving forward. You can either come with us or we will leave you behind. Reporter boitano is convinced that the games will never again be held in a country that is proud of its prejudices. I truly believe that the ioc will never again choose a country to have the olympics in that doesnt have a good human rights record or a country that is not tolerant. Reporter earlier this week, Vladimir Putin inadvertently hugged a gay gold medal speed skater interest holland. We all get carried away in the magic and pageantry of the olympics. I mean, wouldnt it be great if that bastard did, too . I mean, it would be. He put on a huge show. Learned something from it. Were back now. Thank you, harry smith. With final thoughts from the roundtable. Nicolle, we look how quickly things have moved in america for the gop, for republicans, what drives the agenda on social issues . How do they play it . I think on issues like gay marriage, we are a Party Divided by generations. I was i signed on to a republican friend of the court brief that laid out a conservative case for gay marriage, and i think that the policy argument and the debate has to be careful not to become personal. I think we have to be the party that has for the room for conservatives believe that gay marriage is good for society. Were a country divided by generation. Everybody over 65 people are opposed. Everybody under 65, majority supports. 67 of americans under the age of 35 support samesex marriage. Theres a including evangelicals. And republicans. Overwhelmingly. This is an inexorable movement. The what did we learn from mitt romney about how republicans deal with social issues more generally . Quick response. I think he was a reminder the evangelicals are a huge wing in the party. And theyre just not ready to do this. I have a feeling the Supreme Court not wanted to take up this issue. Theyre going to take it up. There are too many lawsuits. Thank you all. Great to have you here. That is all for today. Tonight, nbcs coverage of the olympics continues including meryl davis and charlie white. And well be back next week on the final day of olympic competition and the closing ceremonies. Well be on after the gold medal hockey game in most cities so thats going to be very exciting. Check your local listings. As always, if its sunday, its meet the press. Captions by vitac www. Vitac. Com we will continue to wait for justice for jordan. Hes going to learn that he must be remorseful for the killing of my son. Race is the elephant in the room that was not discussed. What was the jury listening to . We are not going to sit this one down right here. Still seeking justice for jordan. Hello to you all. Im t. J. Holmes. Craig melvin is off today. You are watching msnbc. Right now, reaction to the verdicts in the michael dunn case. Lawyers plotting the next move