Matthe matthews. Marie yovanovitch is still testifying after nine hours. She was among the earliest red flags in the trump ukraine scandal. Coming two months before trumps infamous call with ukraines president zelensky. She was told there had been a Concerted Campaign against me and that the department had been underpressure from the president to remove me since the summer of 2018. She deanied allegations that ha been levelled against her calling them fictitioif i ca fiy she was removed on unfounded an false claimed by people with clearly questionable motives. Her scathing rebuke of those who targeted her comes as we learn the scope of the lobbying campaign that Rudy Giuliani waged to get her fired 37 an effort he mounted with his two business associates. Both of whom were arrested this week according to the wall street. Rudy giuliani wanted her fired because he believed she had been an obstacle in efforts to push ukraine to investigate mr. Biden. She was eventually removed after insisting that Rudy Giulianis request to ukrainian officials for investigations be relayed through official channels. She warned of a quote unfortunate alliance between ukrainians who continued to operate within a corrupt system and americans who did not understand that corrupt system or who may have chosen for their own purposes to ignore it. For more im joined by congressman danny heck. A democratic from Washington State and who took part in todays deposition. Geoff bennett and susan page. Thanks to all of you for being here. Congressman, were talking about this hearing today that you have been a part of for the past eight hours or so. Let me begin with you and ask you, what you heard today from the former ambassador. Does it advance the case in your view for impeachmenting donald trump and if so, how . Steve, first of all, were not talking about any of the specifics which the ambassador shared with us today. Eight and a half hours later let my say this. Number one this woman oozes integrity. Number two, if anybody wants to beat on her character and values, they ought to read the Opening Statement which she shared with us and is now in the public domain. It speaks eloquently to this womans commitment to this country, her patriotism and her dedication to her profession. Finally, number three, this nation owes ambassador yavanovitch a big apology for what happened to her. What is your sense of what happened to her. She said she was fired not for cause. The cause being that Rudy Giuliani was out to get her. Correct. Does that i guess what im asking you beyond that, when i say your case for impeachment, does that affect your view on it . Does that make a stronger case . Look, steve, fast forward a week or ten days after the record of the call between President Trump and president zelensky came out. There were a lot of people asking what more do you need to know. Think about in ten or so days, we had the volker text. We had the indictment offense these two associates of Rudy Giuliani and now we have four National Security official who is learned were ringing the alarm bell. It seems as though every two to three days we learn something new that deepens and gives breadth and depth of how complex this conspiracy, if you will, this effort, if you will, to get yavanovitch out of kiev for all the wrong reasons. Geoff, the picture being painted of what was going on inside the administration, Rudy Giuliani not officially a member of the administration but the president s personal lawyer playing this out size role when it comes to ukraine and trying to get this insgraivestigation started. Rudy giuliani agitating the president to get rid of the ambassador. The president having her recalled. What is the Bigger Picture thats emerging here . Reporter one way to think is as democrats make the public case for impeachment, the work they are doing is they are piecing together the how. How it was that President Trump leaned on these you yukrainian leaders to do his dirty work. What they heard today from ambassador yavanovitch according to the prepared statement that she gave, the Opening Statement, what she says is that her ouster is a direct result of the pressure that President Trump put on folks at the state department. Why did they do that . Because the ambassador was one of the people concerned about the influence campaign that Rudy Giuliani was running. She makes the point theres a Standard Operating Procedure to elevate american interests abroad but that Rudy Giuliani wasnt doing that. He was operating in his own personal interests and at the behest of President Trump and working with those now to indicted associates. Thats the point she makes. She says clearly she met with the number two person at the state department and the person told her youve done nothing wrong but take the next flight home. Youve lost the confidence of President Trump. From there she does a top to bottom rebuke. This is according to her Opening Statement. Top to bottom rebuke of the Pompeo State Department that she now says is all these pressures, political pressures put on otherwise apolitical career folks. She describes a hallowing out of the state department thats inherently dangerous and does not work at all in americas interests. Steve. Last week the president seemed to allude to Rudy Giulianis lobbying campaign to have yavanovitch removed when he confirmed he had been hearing quote, very bad things about her. Why did you recall the u. S. Ambassador to the ukraine . Was she a problem . I heard very bad things about her. I dont know if i recalled her or somebody recalled her but i heard very bad, bad things about her for a long period of time. Not good. Greg, what were learning from her statement, from what shes saying about Rudy Giuliani and his sort of campaign to get her out, when trump says he heard very bad things, are we to assume he heard that from Rudy Giuliani . Yeah, i think thats obvious. Hes hearing things from Rudy Giuliani and Rudy Giuliani is a conduit for things hes hearing from officials or former officials in ukraine who are not pleased with the ambassadors position trying to fight corruption in that country. Trump not only says he heard bad things about her but if you go back to the rough transcript of his call with the leader of ukraine, he tells the president of ukraine that bad things are going to happen to this ambassador. This is just a this all fits together. People who are not on board with this effort to get political dirt from ukraine are moved out of the way or are marginalized. She appeared today despite the administration trying to tell her not to. She defied the administration and appeared. What do you make of that . We may find out later what she is saying in these extraordinary hearing. I think its still going on nine hours later. The fact of her appearance before the committee is as important as what ever she tells them because she is, as you say, defying the administration. The administration has tried to keep witnesses from testifying before various congressional oversight committees. Once she was subpoena, she said she would comply. We have another example next week, the Eu Ambassador saying he will testify before the committees. That is a powerful statement on her part and by the way, a brave thing for her to do. Really puts at risk her lifetime career. Congressman, let me ask you oobt th about that. Do you think the significance of saying dont show up and she shows up, does that portend anything for the other witnesses that you have been hoping to hear from who the administration indicated they dont want talking . Sg i hope so and i think so. First we had one whistleblower. Then we had two. Then we had the inspector general, i think, also engaging in an act of bravery by coming forward and refusing to accept the acting director of National Intelligences directive he not inform us of what happened and then we had the four National Security official who is have now indicated that they were ringing the alarm bell. There are cracks in the wall and the walls are closing in on the president. In her testimony today as well ambassador yavanovitch said today we see the state department attacked and hallowed out from within. State Department Leadership with Congress Needs to take action now to defend this great institution. She warned that quote harm will come when private interests circumvent professional diplomats for their own gain. Hours before her testimony the Washington Post reported that a Senior Adviser to secretary of state mike pompeo, thats michael mckinley, resigned his position amid rising dissatisfaction and plummeting moral within the state department. Mckinley was disappointed in the secretarys lack of public support for diplomat who is have been named in the ukraine controversy and it comes as secretary pompeo refuses to answer questions about yavanovitchs removal. Did you do enough to defend the ambassador privately and publicly against this Smear Campaign that was being waged against her and will you speak to that now . You have some of your facts wrong. Did you support the ambassador being recalled months before her tenure was up . Supported every mission that the state departments been engaged in and will continue to do that. Greg, the Ambassador Says when she was recalled it wasnt pompeo who did it. It was one of his deputies. What do you make of pompeo and his role main this . I think he was on the call. It took him two weeks to admit he was on the call that trump had with zelensky. He wont answer questions about when he was in poland and whether he met with Rudy Giuliani. He cant really point to any evidence that he stood up for this ambassador in ukraine. The no wonder that department appears to be really rattled and that moral is really plunging there. If you look at the other chess pieces that movered around under his leadership. You moveambassador yavanovitch and in comes a millionaire donor to the Trump Campaign to seize control of that relationship with ukraine, ambassador sondland who is supposed to testify next week. These are moves designed to meet the president s political objectives and not americans foreign objectives. Geoff, im curious what you hearing from the white house. The administration didnt want this testimony to happen. Were they surprised by what came out . Were they shocked this happen . Whats been in reaction inside the administration . Reporter as to whether or not the ambassador would show up and it was an open question to some white house officials too who learned as her arrival when he showed up on the house side of the u. S. Capitol here. The white house put out some talking points that they mistakenly sent to democratic offices and we were able to read them. A lot of the talking points spoke to process. Adam schiff would bring up the ambassador here without a state department counsel. She might say things that are privileged and he will run rough shot over long standing tradition and protocol. Nothing has spoke to the underlying argument. That is the president , so goes the democratic argument, risked the National Security in undermining the integrity of our elections by inviting foreign interference in an election. You dont see any rebuttal in talking points that the white house put out today. Susan, im curious too, the politics of this week reaction from the president s own party from republicans. There was the initial revelation of the call itself, the transcript that came out. Now you have details about Rudy Giuliani coming in for the former ambassador. Are republicans, do they feel that they were ready for this . Do they feel surprised, caught off guard by this . Is this changing the equation when it comes to their reaction . I think they feel they are getting very little guidance from the white house about what a unified response should be. You see a lot of republicans trying to jump into the bushes. Cory gardener dodging the questions about whether this would be proper behavior for the president. You dont see many republicans criticizing the president. Mitt romney would be the prime example of the exception to that rule. You also dont see them saying they either say the president did nothing wrong or its outrageous to think the president would do Something Like that. You dont hear that kind of defense from republicans. I think they are still sticking, by in large with the president. You see a lot of nervousness among republicans especially republicans who represent swing states and swing districts, have suburban voters. Those College Educated voters. Congressman you heard from yavanovitch today. What is next . Well were going to hopefully talk to a number of other people. We have tentatively scheduled fiona hill. I hope that is able to actually be realized because i would be looking forward to that as well. Steve, the earlier conversation is important to broaden a little bit. Not only as ambassador yavanovitch is aasserting that the state department has been hallowed out. Think about what he did over the weekend by turning his back on the kurds. You were either acting in your own political selfinterest and not your nation or we cant trust your word because youll change it on a whim as the president did last weekend. These things matter. This is not just a matter of the scandal of the president clearly having violated the law that says he cannot solicit aid from a foreign nation but our institutions are being damaged and our relations are being damaged. Thats why this is so very important. All right. Congressman heck. Thank you all for being with us as well. Coming up, the next big witness in the impeachment inquiry. We just heard about it a minute ago set to testify on monday. President trumps former top aid on russia and europe is expected to Tell Congress about a shadow ukraine agenda inside the white house with policies that reportedly set off alarm bells among National Security officials. Plus, animated, agitate and p profane. Hunter youre a loser and your father was never considered smart. He was never considered a good senator. He was only a good Vice President because he understood how to kiss barack obama. Plus which republican senators might be swayed to vote to convict if there is an impeachment trial . 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You can always count on me to know where to look. Oh, i found them i can do this test now ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. Covered by medicare and most major insurers its what gives audible themembers an edge. Listening; it opens our minds, changes our perspective, connects us, and pushes us further. The most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories audible. Aalexa its a masterstroke of sorrow by olivia watson. Heartache, brutality and redemption. The mist crept into the pivot hole beside her. Youre late. David what did you think of the book . Its a. Masterstroke of. Heartache. Brutality. And redemption. You didnt read it, did you . I didnt. But i will. The lexus nx, modern utility for modern obstacles. Lease the 2020 nx 300 for 349 month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Welcome back to hardball. Following testimony from marie yavanovitch, another key player is expected to testify on monday. Thats the president s former top aide, fiona hill. Sources tell nbc that hill plans to give a stunning account of how the white house tried to purr ssue a shadow foreign poli on ukraine. Her appearance has stoked fear among people close to president given her central role overseeing russia and ukraine policy throughout her time working for the administration. Shes expected to tell lawmakers how the president s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and the ambassador to the European UnionGordon Sondland circumvented in the natural process or ukraine issue. That shadow policy has raised concerns, including then National Security adviser john bolton. The Washington Post reports that bolton went ballistic after a july white house meeting that included advisers to ukraines new president where sondland blurted out there were investigations that were dropped that need to be started up again referring to those involving joe biden and his son hunter. For more im joined by ned price, former National Security adviser and david from. Ned, let me start with you. This idea of a shadow policy, shadow Foreign Policy i think folks have a pretty good soechbs wh sense of what that means. Take us through whether it was what she was saying about Rudy Giuliani or about Gordon Sondland. What role should they have, people like that when it comes to setting u. S. Policy with ukraine . I think we can talk about Rudy Giuliani and Gordon Sondland. Hes a private citizen and shouldnt have any role. Gordon is still the ambassador. Its curious he was involved in this in the first place. Theres something that is very specific in this case. Our state department professional, career professionals have sworn an oath. An oath to protect and defend the constitution and thats what they are there to do day in and day out. They are Public Servants in every sense of both words. They are serving the public. Of course, when Rudy Giuliani goes out to do his own bidding, hes not doing the bidding of the united states. He is not doing the bidding that is in order to advance our National Interests and he said that quite explicitly. He said im out there to fulfill only my clients wishes. These are the personal p perogatives. Donald trump and those around him to include mr. Rudy giuliani prioritized what would help President Trumps political ends even if it was to our national detriment. The fact that yavanovitch testifying today despite the administration not wanting her too, the fact of sondland blocked last week offering testimony last week. Were seeing fiona hill on monday. Does it seem that people who previously had been unwilling to are starting to talk and whats the significance of that . Right. The relatively decent people inside the Trump Administration and fiona hill would top that list made a devils bargain where they said i understand the president im working for is not patriot yacic and not very hone but if im here, at least i can do some good. Thats a very laudable impulse or somewhat laudable but it connects you to a web of moral compromises. Someone like kurt volker care d about ukraine, he had to make a series of ugly compromises in order to get weapons to ukraine. I think as the failure of that approach has become clear. A lot of people who held their tongues in an effort to do good at the price of some bad are deciding the price of bad is just too high. This was not shadow Foreign Policy that the president was running. It was a shady Foreign Policy. This is not about organizational charts or the president s sending a personal envoy around the back of the regular government. Sometimes thats a good idea. Sometimes not. This was extortion. This is an attempt to use the power of the yiunited states fo the personal advantage of the people around him. Its not that its not the proper challenge. The problem is its not the proper purpose. The bar has been raised for fiona hills testimony on monday. How important is her testimony going to be . Well her testimony is important. Its important to emphasize shechs on the way out on july 25th. Thats also sort of the point. We tend to think of this as singularly focused on that 30minute phone call between those two individuals. I think what we have learned over the past couple of weeks is that its much broader than that. Its not just that 30minute phone call and the Washington Post reporting last night hammered it home. This was a conspiracy developing and advancing and mushrooming in many ways over the course not of 30 minutes but over the course of weeks and even months. In fact, the Washington Post reported last night that during fiona hills tenure in may, officials within the National SecurityCouncil First began to grow alarmed at the dismisis of ambassador yavanovitch. They watched in growing concern as Rudy Giuliani went around ukraine and bragged about his efforts to dig up dirt on Vice President bidens son. This culminated in the july 25th phone call. You mentioned the meeting in early july at which Gordon Sondland raised this issue of reopening investigations that had been closed that led john bolton to go ballistic. I dont think she will be able to shed a lot of light on thoo particular phone call but she will be able to add color and context to what was happening in the weeks and months that proceeded that call that raised the alarm bells even deep within the trump white house. Rudy giuliani at the center of this controversy is coming under more scrutiny following yesterdays arrest of his two business associates. The two have been charged in a scheme to make illegal political donations to influence u. S. Relations with ukraine and reportedly helped Rudy Giuliani per s pursue allegations on the president s behest. A video has now surfaced. How are you . How you doing . Giving rudy congratulations. I love that picture. I cant wait to come back. See you in ukraine soon. David, i hear a lot of people asking how loyal trump might be but how loyal is rudy to trump . He is not very loyal but he is beholden. They each have secrets on each other. If they split, thisfection of what is going on is an attorneyclient relationship. Theres no meaningful sense of the word. Donald trump has not retained Rudy Giuliani. What Rudy Giuliani does is not exactly the practice of law. There is the legal prifr ledvil. If they split, it begins to fray. If you go through their list of how often donald trump said about something, i know everything about that whether its infrastructure, whether its the tax system, whether its modern technology. He will tell you i know everything about it. Meaning he knows nothing about it but when hes done something wrong, something we all knows these two people. He had them frequently at his resort. When he says i dont know somebody, watch out. Just today, he said he did not know for sure whether Rudy Giuliani was his lawyer or not. That is the sound of the bus being revved up to be thrown under. All right. Thanks to both you have for joining us. Up next, President Trumps said last week hes confident if the house votes to impeach him, hes win in the senate. It will get into the senate and well win. The republicans have been very unified. This is the greatest witch hunt in the history of our country. Politico reports that behind the scenes republicans in trumps and formal circle advisers are tempering the president s bravado on whether he can count on a gop led senate to keep him in office. Which republicans could potentially be in play when it comes to impeachment . Ill head over to the big board and try to break down that question. Youre watching hardball. Question youre watching hardball when you take align, you have the support of a probiotic and the gastroenterologists who developed it. Align naturally helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets, 24 7. So, where you go, the pro goes. 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Do you think its appropriate that the president asks im not going to do an interview on that. Lets talk about business today. Im asking you if its appropriate for a president to ask a foreign power to investigate his domestic political rival . Yes or no . I would say i dont know that we have that information from front of us. Welcome back to hardball. That tells you something about the politics at the heart of this impeachment inquiry. Theres been an assumption goings into this that if the democrats who control the house have the votes, keep their people in line, they could impeach trump in the house but you kick it over to senate. You have the Republican Controlled Senate and surely republicans who do not want to offend donald Trump Supporters will stay in line and will keep the president in office. You heard it right there. The question at the heart of this impeachment inquiry, the question at the heart of any vote to impeach and remove trump fa office, republican senators dont want to answer it. It raises the question, are you sure . Are we all sure republicans in the senate would just automatically fall in line it comes to a senate trial . Theres 53 republicans. It will take 67 votes. If theres going to be a successful bid to remove trump from office, it takes 67 votes. That means youll need not some 47 democrats but it would take significant republican buy in. We have broken the republican senators into three groups here. Its not acomprehensive list if theres going to be movement, it will probably come from one of these three types. They are in the most danger of losing reelection next year. You saw mcsally and Cory Gardener. They dont want to answer the questions. Collins up in maine. That was a clinton at a time in 2016. They have to worry about general election implications here depending houn the politics play out. The flip side for them, they also have to worry potentially about primary challenges if they break with trump. Then theres this group. Paul cain wrote about this. You might think of these as more elds e elder statesmen type who dont have to worry about facing the voters again. Lamar alexander not running for election. Pat roberts not running for election. Johnny is retiring at the end of this year. Richard burr is up in the year 2022. He said thats it. Im out. None of them have to worry about those political implications that we always talk about. They are more institution allists so that might be an Interesting Group to look to. This third group, call it the wild card group. Romney has been the most outspoken. You know his history with trump. Utah very rare among republican states. Republican voters in utah very cool toward President Trump. You dont see that in any other state but you do in utah. Murkowski lost to republican primary back in 2010. Ran as a write in candidate. A write in candidate, kornacki murkowski, those are tough names to spell. Rob portman express concerned about the president s behavior and ben sasse early on a fear trump critic. Hes picking his shots now. Hes one you might want to keep aen eye on aez wes well. Three different groups. Look forward to come in one or more of those. There have to be about 20 republicans voting with every democrat if there was going to be impeachment and removal. We started this process saying no way is that going to happen. Are you absolutely sure of that . Well see. Up next, so much for minute minnesota nice. A fired up President Trump held his first rally since the start of the impeachment last night. Nancy pelosi, the media and the fbi were among his targets. Will his scorch effort strategy help stem the increasing tides of impeachment . Increasing tides of impeachment great weather, great friends. You just saved a bunch of money by switching your boat insurance to geico. It was easy. Folks, can it get any better than this . Is that what i think it is . That is an armada of tiny sushi boats. Awesome i forgot to pack lunch. You had one job. Chopsticks wasabi and soy comin in a little hot. It only gets better when you switch and save with geico. It only gets better hey allergy muddlers. Achoo . Do your sneezes turn heads . Try zyrtec. It starts working hard at hour one. And works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Zyrtec muddle no more. So chantix can help its you quit slow turkey. Cold turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or lifethreatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. Use caution driving or operating machinery. Tell your doctor if youve had Mental Health problems. The most common side effect is nausea. Talk to your doctor about chantix. Welcome back. Last night in minneapolis, President Trump held a rally. For more than 90 minutes he released personal attacks about his favorite targets including the media, fbi and nancy pelosi who he called really stupid. The president s most vicious and dubious attacks were aimed at joe biden and his son hunter. Lets do another tshirt. Wheres hunter . Where is he . Hunter, youre a loser. And your father was never considered smart. He was never considered a good senator. He was only a good Vice President because he understood how to kiss Barack Obamas ass. And the president told his supporters that democrats are trying to erase their voice by what he called the ukraine hoax. They know they cant win the 2020 election, so theyre pursuing the insane impeachment witch hunt. The democrats brazen attempt to overthrow our government will produce a backlash at the ballot box, the likes of which they have never, ever seen before in the history of this country. These are bad people. My phone call as an example with the president of ukraine was perfect. Democrats are on a crusade to destroy our democracy. We will never let it happen. We will defeat them. The president is trying to convert the impeachment threat into a reelection argument, but hell have to stem the turning tide of Public Opinion first. That is coming up next. Youre watching hardball. 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That was President Trump last night in minneapolis despite a fox poll this week showing a majority of voters, 51 in their poll say they want trump impeached and removed from office. The president made the argument that it democrats are pursuing impeachment because they cant win in 2020. Yesterday a key republican senator cited the upcoming election in urging caution on impeachment. In a statement retiring tennessee senator Lamar Alexander said, quote, its inappropriate for the president to be talking with foreign governments about investigate his political opponents but impeachment would be a mistake. An election which is just around the corner is the right way to decide who should be president. Impeachment has never removed a president. It will only divide the country further. Im joined by charlie sykes. Thank you both for being with us. Charlie, let me start with you. That Lamar Alexander statement yesterday caught my attention pause it seems to me we have all these republican senators who have been unwilling to give an answer to that question, should the president even be having that kind of phone collin the first place . Theres alexander saying what i sense a lot of them on some level want to say, it wasnt appropriate but then coming up a rationale on why impeachment is too far. He says because the election is next year. Do you sense this is going to become the argument republicans will want to trend to . That seems to be a safe place and the contrast with watching Cory Gardener flail around with this is how afraid of those tweets is he that he cant say what Lamar Alexander said except apparently the dynamic right now within the Republican Party is you cannot break with the president at all on this issue. You cant even say that the conduct hes engaging in is inappropriate. So that is interesting. Look, but in terms of the election and impeachment you know this better than anybody that up until this week the president has seen his his poll numbers have seemed impervious to the news cycle and you feel maybe thats changing right now. And the last week has been an exercise in selfimpeachment. So i do wonder whether senators like Lamar Alexander and i think your analysis of the senate was exactly right. Theyre sitting there saying do we want four more years of this . Do we really want another half decade of this . And i think this impeachment process is going to have voters asking themselves whether they can take another four or five years of donald trump. I wonder folks in the white house, his supporters in general, how do they feel . How confident do they feel about keeping republicans in line, about the polls staying i say where they are and not getting any worse for them. I imagine this is going to be a different story if they even move five more points lets say. How confident are they they can keep all those republicans in line . I do feel they are confident but theyre probably a little less confident than they were as a couple more people come out and talking. Youve got to remember they have all these republicans that are worried about facing primary opponents. Theyre worried about not having the president , both the apparatus of the rnc and the president s support for their reelection. Youve got to remember last week or these last few days weve seen while the polls are dipping a little bit and republican support is still pretty high, its 80 or so, so thats still a lot of republicans that are supporting him. Youve seen record breaking fundraising numbers. So all of those things feel very strong to them and republicans would have to be without that if they decided to cross him. And i want to put this up, too, because this is interesting. The numbers really have moved when it comes to impeachment. Theres been some republicans, independents who have moved on this as well. Look at this, President Trumps Approval Rating, the average Approval Rating if you went back to the start of the year, it was a 43 average Approval Rating. And if you look now its 43 . And this has been the story of his presidency from day one until now, by any historical standard hes not had great numbers. But when you look at the Approval Rating you do start to ask how much has really changed. Something is changing and it is this coalescing of all the people who have been disillusioned with donald trump but also exhausted by trump. But anita is exactly right. The numbers to look at are the republican numbers, the fundraising numbers. Its hard for me to imagine any republican running for reelection daring to break with the president because even if theyre running behind the democrat, they cannot risk alienating the base. So the senators you need to look at i think are the old guard senators. I and i throw one other senator into the mix. I would keep a close eye on Lamar Alexander. But watch somebody like mike lee from utah. If you had a principle constitutionallist watching the numbers but saying as a matter of principle we need to hold the president accountable, i think you start to see a Critical Mass of people saying we dont need to go along with this. And at some point some republicans say do we want to go with trump, whats wrong with a mike pence, niki haley ticket . Paul cain at the Washington Post did put that possibility out there. Everybody thinks the republicans up next year in blue states or in near blue states, but it may come from somewhere else in the senate. Thank you both for joining us. And coming up next, a very big one in the impeachment inquiry. Youre watching hardball. i hear you sister. Thats why im partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual checkup, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel physically and emotionally. 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On monday fiona hill, thats President Trumps former top aid on russia and europe, on monday shes expected to Tell Congress about how the white house tried to pursue a shadow Foreign Policy when it came to ukraine. Rudy giulianis business associate is also scheduled to give a deposition on monday. And monday is also the deadline for ambassador Gordon Sondland to turn over documents to congress which he has indicated he wont do. Tuesday then is the document deadline for Rudy Giuliani, Vice President mike pence, defense secretary mark esper and acting omd director and wednesday the deadline to turn over documents and ambassador sondland has agreed to give a joint deposition thursday. And friday is the deadline for White House Acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney and Energy Secretary rick perry to turn over documents. On top of all of that, the fourth democratic debate on tuesday night. Were going to be here to cover all of it. Thats hardball for now. Thank you for being with us. And all in with chris hayes starts right now. Tonight on a special edition of all in, the ambassador speaks. Former Ukraine Ambassador defies the white house and Warns Congress about the president. Plus. I havent spoken to rudy. New clues Rudy Giuliani himself may be in serious legal jeopardy after his Associates Get busted. And then reporting on the invention of the ukraine conspiracy theory. And richard engel, live from the front lines in syria on the deteriorating situation for kurds after donald trump ordered u. S. Forces to stand down