Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20190617

Now, the data which is from march shows the president trailing former Vice President joe biden in 11 key battleground states. Some of this data was first reported on late last week but nbc news has now obtained even more of the Trump Campaigns internal numbers. Numbers that show trump trailing biden in states like north carolina, iowa, georgia and ohio, these all states that trump won in 2016. And the president is only leading biden by two points in texas, a state that hasnt gone to a democrat since jimmy carter back in 1976. Now, the Trump Campaign is cutting ties with some of its own pollsters after the leak of this data, according to a person close to the campaign. Nbc news reporting the internal polling paints a picture of an incumbent president with serious ground to gain across the country as his Reelection Campaign kicks into higher gear. Heres what trump said about those poll numbers during an interview with abc news. Even your own polls show youre behind right now, dont they . No, my polls show that im winning everywhere. I dont know weve all seen these reports 15 out of 17 states, you spent 2 million on a poll and youre behind in 15 out of 17 states. Nobody showed you those polls, those polls dont exist, george. I just had a meeting with somebody who is a pollster and im winning everywhere. There is new polling as well, though, from fox news that appears to back up the leaked Trump Campaign numbers. These are the new headtohead numbers for the president nationally against some of his most likely democratic opponents. They are consistent, these findings, with what other pollsters are finding from other outlets. A tenpoint advantage over the president for joe biden. Nine points for Bernie Sanders. Elizabeth warren, kamala harris, pete buttigieg, all of them also ahead of the president , whose support tops out in any of these matchups at 41 . For more im joined by robert costa, National Political reporter for the Washington Post. Eugene robinson, associate editor and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for the Washington Post and rick tyler, former National Spokesman for the 2010 cruz campaign. All three are msnbc political analysts. Robert, let me start with you. And let me, in fact, put this up on the screen from our own papers reporting on this. You say trump world is trying to wave a red flag in front of the president to warn him that his 2020 reelection battle is going to be a tougher fight than hes willing to acknowledge. That is why people close to the Campaign Said that unflattering internal poll numbers leaked about matchups with joe biden and other democratic contenders in key states. So take us inside the conversations the president is having with folks about 2020 when the topic of his political standing comes up, the topic of these polls, his own Campaign Polls comes up. Is he in denial about the basic numbers that are being presented to him . There has been a red flag that has been waived by certain people in the president s orbit ever since the 2018 elections when they saw suburban women and other key voting blocks depart from President Trump, depart from the republican party. There is a divide right now in the president s circle between those who think the key is to stoke the president s Political Base and those who say they should be moving a little bit more towards the center, but theyre seeing some of these numbers in different important states really start to tick off, and theyre not doing what they need to do, they feel, in some of these states they won in 2016. We see the president s public reaction. I think what im curious, though, is privately. Is there a sense that this news is resonating with him, that hes acknowledging it privately or is his attitude saying, hey, the polls looked bad for me in 2016, i won, so ill ignore them now . He has always had disbelief when it comes to many polls, both internal polls and public polls, so some advisers in trumps orbit are reluctant to bring to him negative information because they know hell have a negative reaction to it. So they sometimes try to gently guide him towards acknowledging the steep climb he faces ahead of 2020 while also remarking to him privately by saying many of your core voters are still there. Its a dance for many people who surround President Trump because they know how sensitive he is to the polling issue generally and to numbers that seem to be negative, and he always wants to project confidence. Thats so much part of his brand, both as a businessman and as a politician. Yeah, gene, its interesting to me just thinking back to 2016, i can think of how many moments in that campaign there were public polls out there, there were reports of, you know, rnc and rnc analysis of all the battleground states i remember seeing a couple of days before the election in 2016. Always seemed to pointing that donald trump is behind. Donald trump is poised to lose this state. Donald trump is poised to lose the election. Ultimately, you got a president here who is the president of the United States. Psychologically from the standpoint of somebody on his campaign trying to get his attention, trying to change his behavior, his approach, by looking at polls, can you reach somebody who won an election when he heard very similar messages three years ago . Well, apparently not yet. Apparently you cant reach donald trump yet with that with the message that you cannot win an election with 41 . You know, this look, he should have started if he wanted to win reelection, he should have started soon after his election in 2016 or after he took officer in 2017. He should have tried to widen his appeal, his coalition, to bring more people in. Hes done the exact opposite. Hes had a total, complete consistent base strategy firing up the base. Not a single gesture to try to reach out and embrace more potential voters. And in the end hes staring at numbers like these. Now, its early, of course, the National Polls this early. What do they mean . Well, the one message i take away is that 41 . You cant win with that. So, rick, also that 41 , low 40s, i think not coincidentally at all, thats where Donald Trumps Approval Rating clocks in and thats where it has clocked in basically his entire presidency. On a bad day maybe hell fall somewhere into the high 30s. On a good day maybe hell reach into the mid40s, but i think one way of looking at these numbers, whether its the internal polls or all the public polls you have out there, these are numbers consistent with any president who has got the Approval Rating donald trump has had. Yeah. I think thats an accurate reading. And a president whose Approval Rating, you know, oddly has never really breached 50 . Its never been at a level that you could confidently say this looks like somebody who is going to be reelected. He didnt look like he was going to get elected in the first place to a lot of us. Maybe there is special juju about donald trump and elections, but these numbers, as you said, very consistent with his low approval numbers and they dont budge, really. So, rick, if you want to take it from a trump optimist standpoint here just strategically. If he wants to pull a rabbit out of the hat again, get reelected in 2020 with numbers you would normally look at and say nobodys winning an election with these numbers, i think one thing that seemed to help donald trump in the end in 2016 when you looked at those exit polls was the unpopularity on election day of his opponent. Hillary clintons favorable rating was down to 43 on election day. Trumps was low too, but it created just the opportunity he needed there. What are the odds there that donald trump with all the democratic names you see out there will be able to lower his democratic opponent in 2020 to that same number . Or is this group of candidates you see out there potentially not going to fall that low, not going to be lowerable to that level . Well, lets start here, steve. As you know, the latest nbc poll has donald trump at 44 . He started his presidency at the exact same number, 44 , so nothing has changed with donald trump. Donald trump is congenitally incapable of hearing any bad news about himself or his campaign, so his pollsters have been unable to present him with the bleak news thats ahead of him. What he did with Hillary Clinton was to make her more unpopular than he was. That remains his only strategy was he cannot he has proven over and over again as eugene was saying, he cannot expand a base. He cannot collect more voters to his side. Instead, as bob costa points out, he continues to lose them. So his only strategy is to smear whoever his ultimate democratic opponent will be. Now, heres the problem for the democrats. It will be easier to smear and define a candidate who has low name i. D. , which, frankly, is most of the field. Besides Bernie Sanders and joe biden. So because theyve raised like 100 million. 100 million could do terrible, terrible things to ones public image, but that will be his strategy because he has no vision for the country. He has no real legislative agenda that he can point to. He can point to a good economy, but thats not really a whole lot that he can point to. Even polls are showing that most americans who who looked at the tax cut, which was this big accomplishment, dont think that it benefitted them personally or benefitted anyone other than the wealthy. I can show you also from this Washington Post story here what folks around trump and around these polls have been saying. Is that 2020 will be exponentially more difficult than 2016 and Everyone Needs to realize that, a source close to the campaign explained. Obviously, look, in 2020 the president will be an incumbent president. This is not going to be an open seat election to succeed a twoterm incumbent. So there may be fundamentally a difference there. But robert costa, in terms of that idea of trying to make the opponent as unpalatable as possible, something that donald trump and his campaign were able to do in 2016 with Hillary Clinton. You heard donald trump last week say, hey, i think joe biden, thats the guy id most like to run against. Thats the public bravado youre getting from trump. Is that matched by what youre hearing and seeing privately or do they read the strength and weakness of this democratic field differently behind the scenes . Privately, many republicans who work with the Trump Campaign or on capitol hill tell me that they they would really like to paint the Democratic Party with the socialist brush in 2020. And to define the Democratic Party as democratic socialists and they think thats the way to both by stoking their own voters on immigration and trade and the republican party, but also trying to alarm moderate to independent voters by saying the democrats are socialists. Thats the way they maybe have a path in a state like wisconsin, michigan or pennsylvania, ohio, to try to make sure the working class voter who went to them in 2016 stays with them in 2020. They are worried about someone like Vice President biden who with a more moderate persona, his link to the Obama Administration from eight years as vp, could be a real threat. So thats an interesting question there, too, gene, just strategically then for democrats. Invoke the name socialism. You had Bernie Sanders out there last week giving a defense of democratic socialism. Youve got biden with the implicit memb implicit message of, hey, you know, these things wont stick to me. Strategically where does that leave a candidate like warren, somebody running on the themes that i think Bernie Sanders stresses economically but not necessarily leaning into the kinds of labels he would lean into . Where does that leave somebody like her . Well, you know, its where she is. Basically shes been very clear at saying im not a socialist, im not a socialist, im not a socialist. At the same time shes been, i think, ahead of many of the other candidates in laying out her specific policy agenda that has some across the aisle appeal. She does well in crowds of those White Working Class voters. She does better than a lot of people thought she would do. And, frankly, her campaign in general is going better than a lot of people thought it would. So well just have to see how that evolves. Is sh she, i think, is perhaps more vulnerable to the kind of sliming that trump is going to do to the democratic nominee than biden would be, but its early to even say that. Lets see how they perform. Lets watch the first debate. Lets see how the candidates stack up. Rick, take a look at that map in 2016 that donald trump was able to put together, that Electoral College coalition with. Where do you see the biggest which states is he most vulnerable in . Which should he be watching the most closely right now . Which should give him the most worry right now in terms of Something Different potentially have happening in 20 than in 16 . Well, clearly in pennsylvania where joe biden is doing very well, according to his own poll, wisconsin, michigan, and surprisingly florida, which is a swing state, but there really is not a scenario for victory if donald trump is going to lose florida. But if he loses those other three states, hell have to make it up somewhere else. Hes losing in places like north carolina. Like, its close in georgia. Its two points in texas. Of course im quoting his ancient poll now, but, you know, thats thats that seems to be where hes at and, you know, well see if he can improve on that. The history shows us that he cant. Okay. Rick tyler, robert costa, eugene robinson, thanks to all of you to being with us. And coming up, there is increased support for impeachment when it comes to democratic voters but is the view of impeachment changing among democratic lawmakers in congress . Going to talk to one member of the house next. And later, Chris Matthews is going to join us with a preview of tonights deciders town hall event. Youre watching hardball. Rs n hall event youre watching hardball. A t ive seen a cat without a gri, but a grin without a cat. Hey, mercedes, end audio. Change lighting to soft blue. The completely reimagined 2020 gle. With Intelligent Voice control and available third row. Your adventure awaits. Visit your local mercedesbenz dealer for exceptional lease and financing offers. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. Has four levels of defenseremium gasoagainst gunk, wear, corrosion and friction. That helps keep your Engine Running like new. Its fuel for thought. Heres how to enjoy our huge aussie steakhouse dinner. First, get your choice of soup or salad. 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A knew nbc news wall street journal poll shows a shift in Public Opinion on impeachment. 27 of americans now say there is enough evidence to begin impeachment hearings. That is up ten points in the last month. 24 say congress should continue investigating to see if theres enough evidence to impeach the president. The rising support for hearings comes mostly from democrats whose support for impeachment is up 18 points over the last month. A separate poll from fox news shows 43 of voters support impeaching and removing trump. That poll shows support for impeachment and removable among independents up 15 points over the course of the last year. President trump reacted with a tweet contradicting this polling tweeting, almost 70 in new poll say dont impeach. So ridiculous to even be talking about this subject. But democrats might be facing increasing pressure to go forward with impeachment. Heres what congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez said yesterday. I think every day that passes the pressure to impeach grows, and i think that its justifiable. I think the evidence continues to come in, and i believe that with the president now saying that he is willing to break the law to win reelection, that that goes that transcends partisanship, it transcends party lines and this is now about the rule of law in the United States of america. Joining me now is democratic congresswoman marcie kapter of ohio. Thank you for taking a few minutes. You are not one of those, i think its about five democrats in congress now who have been calling for impeachment, come out and publicly said it. Is it there a chance you may join them or do you say, no, were not going to go forward with impeachment . Well, first of all, you need very thorough investigation before you move forward with impeachment, but for me personally, impeachment isnt enough. It isnt about one person, its about the ring around the president. Many of them looters. Many of them, in my opinion, treasonous to this country. Paul manafort being one of them. And already over six individuals have been convicted. Some are trying to work out deals but we really need to remove the corruption and we need to remove those who are supporting the enemies of liberty. I really think thats whats at stake in this election thats coming up. You say you say in the election. Are you drawing a distinction there saying the way to get the president out of office, the way to address these issues is through an election and not through impeachment . Well, i dont know whether the committees have jurisdiction will have completed their work. You know the administrations been withholding information and its been hard to get the evidence that the is necessary to move forward with the proper findings. So words are el chacheap, but wu move forward with an impeachment effort inside the house where it will start, you have to make sure that all of your information is locked down, and, frankly, its not secret that this administration has held back information repeatedly. All the individuals, whether its michael flynn, whether its michael cohen, whether its paul manafort, i dont care which one you pick, they lied and they withheld evidence, they did not tell the truth, and so youre not working with an administration or the ring around the president who have been forthcoming. It makes it very, very difficult. And justice meets out slowly. But i believe that it needs to meet out methodically. Do you and this ring goes well beyond the president. Okay. But on the question of the president , youve read the Mueller Report, i assume. Do you believe based on your reading of the Mueller Report that the president committed obstruction of justice . I cannot tell from the Mueller Report because there are so many redacted pages. It appears to me that the president , he doesnt look like hes innocent. He looks like hes trying to feed the publicity around his own situation. What would it matter to him . He has most everything in the world that he wants, almost. And for his own reputation to give us the information that we want. So hes withholding evidence. Okay. But you say you cant tell youre saying youre citing redactions here. Does the Mueller Report leave open in your possibility leave open in your mind, excuse me, the possibility that the president committed obstruction of justice . Oh, absolutely. Okay. So why not have i guess the question im trying to put together what youre saying here. If youve read the report, you think the report doesnt answer all the questions and the question exists in your mind of obstruction of justice possibly being committed by the president. Is that not grounds to go forward with an impeachment investigation . Well, i think investigations are occurring. We have some excellent committees, actually six of them. Im not on those committees, but they are i believe going over to the white house this week trying to obtain information that we need. The law isnt like a very quick insta breakfast. The law takes time and we have to pin down facts and we have to get the information in order to do that. So politically its easy to say, oh, were going to do this. And but to actually have the evidence in hand so that you can do proper hearings and so forth, thats what the committees are seeking. Theyre working very hard to do that. The argument, and i guess my question to you then is do you disagree with this . The argument has been made that by convening a formal impeachment inquiry, having a formal process under way that the power to seek the kind of information youre talking about getting is increased beyond what democrats and members of congress enjoy right now. They havent convinced me of that. All right. Congresswoman marcie kaptur, not signing off on impeachment right now. Appreciate you taking a few minutes. Thank you very much. All right. And coming up, were going to go live to dayton, ohio. Thats where Chris Matthews is holding a special deciders town hall. Dayton located in a county that went for obama then it went for trump. How are those voters feeling a couple of years into this presidency . Trump is going to join us next. Youre watching hardball. In ut youre watching hardball. T rig. You make time. When you can. But sometimes life gets in the way, and that stubborn fat just wont go away. Coolsculpting takes you further. 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Use caution driving or operating machinery. Tell your doctor if youve had Mental Health problems. The most common side effect is nausea. Quit smoking slow turkey. Talk to your doctor about chantix. Welcome back to hardball. We are less than three hours away from a special town hall event, the deciders hosted by msnbcs own Chris Matthews in dayton, ohio. This is the second in a series of town halls that will be focused on issues that voters care about as they decide who will be the next president of the United States. Tonights town hall brings us to dayton, dayton, ohio, a county that went to obama in 2008, obama again in 2012, but it flipped to trump in 2016. Trumps margin of victory in Montgomery County was just 1 , though. Now that we are 2 1 2 years into the trump presidency, do voters there feel the same way . Would they vote for trump again in 2020 . Well, Chris Matthews joins us now from dayton, ohio. Chris, really looking forward to this event. Let me ask you, thats the bottom line question, has anybodys mind either way where you are changed in the last couple of years . Well, steve, well find out that tonight, and i think that as you all know, all the polling youve looked at, about 80 to 90 of republicans have held true to trump. The democrats dont have unanimity like that behind anybody, so theyre going to eventually have to make a choice between whoever the democrats cook up and trump again. And we dont know that until we see it, until they see it. But what im trying to do tonight is get the attitude about trump. Does it bother them that hes vulgar, that he doesnt tell the truth, that he has a character problem, he makes fun of peoples physical appearance, he makes nicknames up. Does it bother them that his Foreign Policy seems to make no sense or is it just about us against them . They dont like the democratic or republican establishments. They still dont like them. And the same reasons they voted against them last time theyll do it again. I think thats the open question. I hope its going to be wild tonight. I think it will. There is a lot of anger out there on both sides. You did one of these in pennsylvania a few weeks ago. It was gripping television. I dont care what side of the aisle youre on. You really did have a look there in this room. Youre probably going to have the same thing tonight, from what i understand, of the conversation that america is really having in maybe we dont always see on tells. Television. Yeah because we live in our own bubbles. If you live in washington, d. C. , youre probably surrounded by a lot of liberals, intellectuals welleducated People Wealth a point of view. They have no problem with big government. They like big government. They like all the liberal programs. Theyre prochoice. They like trade. They dont have any problem with immigration. You get outside that bubble, you get into another bubble where people are very angry about immigration, very angry about the trade situation with china and they want to see something done and they want it to be a little rougher, their politics. So i think were going to bring those two bubbles together and see them pop. You know, its interesting, you mentioned trade out there. We keep seeing these polls that joe biden supposedly the best positioned democrat to take out trump, especially in a place like ohio. This the put it on the screen there. This is the trump internal data. They got biden apparently up by a point there in ohio. But on trade biden, isnt he ultimately as vulnerable as clinton was on that . When you talk about nafta, when you talk about these big trade deals . Well, certainly because, i mean, tpp was probably for that. He was definitely for nafta. All the democrats were pretty much protrade, at least at the top back in the 90s. To clintons, all of them were pronafta. Hillary i dont think was pronafta. She turned against tpp eventually. Sherrod brown is probably better fixed to represent this state as a senator. Hes a very tough guy on trade, as we know. Bobby casey in pennsylvania. The rust belt states, if you will, theyre represented by democrats, debbie stabenow, who are very tough on the trade issue. Theyre more attuned than maybe biden. I bet biden switches on this. If he wants to stick with the rather, get the working class voter, the working person out here, the woman and the man, depend on trade to change to start picking up some of this industrial market, hes going to have to shift as well. You know, you guys on the ground there were talking to some voters in dayton. Let me just play a clip of this. Some of the voters there about the president s behavior, his conduct in Office Versus his performance on the economy. Take a listen. People dont like exactly how he goes about doing it, but he thats trump. Whether you like it or not. But the bottom line, hes getting things done. Economically, for me, it seems to be, like, 100 better. You know, if i would want a preacher up in the white house, i would have voted a preacher guy in. I thought that comment from the second gentleman there saying economically things feel 100 different. Whats your sense on the ground . How widespread is the feeling on the ground in their everyday lives that there is a measurable difference now to three years ago . Well, were going to hear that tonight. Were going to hear as soon as we do the show tonight. What im seeing in the numbers is that this county, for example, is about, you know the states about 1 more an hour. So its not a lot. Its 1 more an hour since trump took over in terms of wages. The Unemployment Rate, however, has been dramatically cut down to about a point statewide. About two points in this county. So people there are jobs out there. Theyre not goodpaying jobs in many cases. So the progress of the wage per hour hasnt been able to keep up with the stock market or with or with the general Unemployment Rate situation. So were going to hear a lot of anecdotal information. I might ask the question could anyone raise 400 bucks if they needed it in an emergency. Ask people if theyre all just living paychecktopaycheck and really hanging on by their fingertips economically. I expect were going to hear different cases. Not everybody is doing the same. Chris matthews out there in dayton, ohio. 10 00 eastern tonight. The deciders. Youre not going to want to miss this one. Trust me. Thank you, chris. Coming up, well turn to the democrats. New polls show shifting fortunes for the democratic contenders ahead of that allimportant first primary debate right here on msnbc. Keir going to go inside the numbers next. Youre watching hardball. Here are even more reasons to join tmobile. 1. Do you like netflix . Sure you do. Thats why its on us. 2. Unlimited data. Use as much as you want, when you want. 3. No surprises on your bill. Taxes and fees included. Still think you have a better deal . Bring in your discount, and well match it. Thats right. Tmobile will match your discount. When crabe stronger. Strong, with new nicorette coated ice mint. Layered with flavor. Its the first and only coated nicotine lozenge. For an amazing taste. That outlasts your craving. New nicorette ice mint. The good news . Our comfort lasts all day. The bad news . So does his energy. New depend® fitflex underwear offers your best comfort and protection guaranteed. Because, perfect or not, lifes better when youre in it. Be there with depend®. Tthe bad news . Ouyour patience might not. Ay. New depend® fitflex underwear offers your best comfort and protection guaranteed. Because, perfect or not, lifes better when youre in it. Be there with depend®. All right. Welcome back to hardball. Well, next week middle of next week they are all going to be on staging to. Well, not quite actually. Its two stages. Two nights. Ten candidates a night. 20 candidates for president. The democratic race. How does the democratic race stand heading into that debate next week . Well, some brandnew polling we can take you through here. First of all, here is a national poll. National democratic race. This was the fox news poll out this weekend. And, again, it shows you this is kind of the holding pattern, i think, heading into the first debate. Joe biden over 30 . Clearly in the lead. Clearly the frontrunner. Not overwhelming in a way weve seen with some in the past, but certainly he has created separation since getting into the race. The question, of course, then becomes, how is he going to perform . The spotlight of that debate and the spotlight thats going to come after that. Biden has only been campaigning kind of intermittently. Think thats going to pick up after the debate. This is sort of where he starts. Lets see what happens once he takes the stage. Bernie sanders, the runnerup in 2016, a distant second in this poll and a jumble of other candidates who have moved up giving chase to sanders. Theyre all trying to stand out, obviously, in this debate. One of the interesting divides weve seen, continues to be the case, ill show you on the democratic side. The divide around age. This is the overall number. Folks under 45 years old. Biden leads but barely. 21 for biden. Look at that. Sanders right behind him, 18 . This is folks under 45 years old. Completely different campaign. Completely different election when you flip it around to over 45. Look at bidens support. It explodes. It doubles. He goes from 21 to 42 people over 45 years old. Sanders, his is practically cut in half. He goes from 18 and right on bidens heels all the way back to 10 , losing to him more than 4 to 1. A lot of democratic voters over 45 years old. There are a lot of voters who are over 45 years old. We dont always talk about them, but thats been one of the sources of strength joe bidens had and one of the reasons hes the frontrunner now. Its the strength particularly from older voters. We also got the readout from key early caucus states. Iowa, biden continuing to lead now. There is sanders, remember, 2016, sanders came close in iowa. Almost knocked off Hillary Clinton. All of a sudden you see Elizabeth Warren getting some traction now in iowa. Double digits for her. Buttigieg at 11 in iowa. How about New Hampshire . Similar number for biden there. Interesting number to keep an eye on as the New Hampshire race unfolds. Sanders and warren both neighbors. Vermont next door to New Hampshire, massachusetts as well. Interesting thing to keep an eye on. We see South Carolina. Able is one of bidens sources of strength early on. Look at the lead hes got in the poll. Weve seen other polls in South Carolina that have him significantly ahead and the big reason is that joe biden in South Carolina and nationally so far has been doing substantially better with black voters than with white voters. Its been a big source of strength for him. South carolina, the democratic primary electorate is more than 50 , more than 60 in 2016 africanamerican. Biden right now continues to run very well with the africanamerican voters. Its why hes ahead so much in this South Carolina poll and its another reason why he has that lead going into the debate nationally. So thats where things stand right now, but obviously when they get on that stage everything subject to change. We will see. Several of the democratic contenders took part in a major event today focused on poverty and inequality. Weve got a live report from the Poor Peoples Campaign president ial forum coming up. Youre watching hardball. There are roadside attractions. 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When you start with a better thats no way to treat a dog. You can do no wrong. Where did you learn that . The internet. Yeah . Mmm with no artificial preservatives or added nitrates or nitrites, its all for the love of hot dogs. Welcome to fowler, indiana. One of the windiest places in america. And home to three bp wind farms. In the offchance the wind ever stops blowing here. The lights can keep on shining. Thanks to our natural gas. A smart partner to renewable energy. Its always ready when needed. Or. Not. At bp, we see possibilities everywhere. To help the world keep advancing. We have to raise the minimum wage to a minimum of 15 an hour. Its disgraceful that someone works 40 hours a week and lives in poverty. We have a fundamental issue, and that is who is our government going to work for . Is it going to just keep working for the rich and the powerful . Keep working for a thinner and thinner slice at the top or are we going to have a government that works for everyone else . In this country our economy and our government belong to all of us, not just wealthy campaign contributors. Those were some of the democratic president ial candidates who appeared at the forum for the Poor Peoples Campaign held today in washington, d. C. And im joined now by nbc news political reporter ali vitali at the event. You see the former Vice President , Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders. Warren and sanders both up speaking on the stage there. This is an activist group, obviously. This is not necessarily a broadly representative Democratic Party in all of its elements there, but this is a key component of activists here. Who was the best received . Who connected with that crowd today . I will tell you coming into this event, steve, to me, it seemed like the perfect forum for a Elizabeth Warren or a Bernie Sanders to make their pitch about how to fix the wealth gap in this country. Its something that theyve really structured their campaigns around, and, yes, they did do well, but there was one person who surprised me, and that was Marianne Williamson who really did interweave faith and her background as an author into a lot of her answers here. They really did respond. They were told not to give applause, but some of them broke the rules for the three candidates to show they liked what they were saying. The thing i was looking out for most here today, the first time you had joe biden, for example, at one of these cattle calls where candidates are just rotating on and off the stage. You really do get a chance to compare their pitches. But there are also some of those candidates who arent really willing to be drawing contrasts between themselves and likeminded candidates in the field. Im thinking specifically of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren when you were laying out that polling data, they are coming closer together. Even Elizabeth Warren superseding Bernie Sanders in some of those polls. I asked bernie how he would draw that contrast. Listen to what he told me. Hey, senator, how do you draw a contrast between yourself and senator Elizabeth Warren . Well, right now were going to be talking about an issue that in this country is not talked about enough, and that is the fact we have tens of millions of People Living in poverty at a time of massive income and wealth inequality. So i think that instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires, we start focussing on the needs of ordinary americans, and that is wipe out poverty if he america. Thats the goal that we can achieve. Thats a message you guys share. And i said thats a message you guys share. Senator sanders just kind of kept walking. He wasnt really willing to engage on that, but i do think its an interesting point of contrast. They will not be on the debate stage together. Though i sort of wish they would be. I would love to see how those two candidates contrast each other sharing so many things in common on policy. I will say the sanders answer we got from him comes as his Campaign Manager sent a memo about polling, reassuring reporters that despite seeing slippage in some horse race polls, sanders is still strong, specifically among voters who have one candidate in mind theyre supporting, which makes sense given in 2016 how loyal the Bernie Sanders base was. Steve. Ali, thank you. Im joined now by cornell belch and cornell, thanks for joining us. Obviously a very different race back then. It was pretty much a oneonone race. Now youve got all these other options the democrats have. Im curious, what do you think the Bernie Sanders floor in this race is and what do you think the ceiling is . Well, i think i think Bernie Sanders is going to probably struggle to hold on to as much of this coalition we saw in 2016. I mean, look, to your point, it was it did come to a twoperson race, and bernie i think benefitted from a great deal of sort of the antiestablishment change oriented electorate, same way we did in 2008 with obama. But i also want to point out to you, you know, kudos to reverend barber and the Poor Peoples Campaign because they have put poverty and poor people front and center in the conversation in a way that if you look at 2006, look at 2008, look at 2012, even look at this last midterm, middle class, middle class, middle class was all democrats are talking about. And they are forcing the democrats now to have to talk about poor people and poverty in a way that we certainly have not before in the past, and kudos to reverend barber and his crew. Rick tyler, when you take a look at this democratic field right now, we were asking earlier but who do you think the Trump Campaign should be most worried about right now . Is it joe biden, you think, because you were saying hed be difficult to define . Or is joe biden very definable in that you have this history he was the gaffe machine in he does bring some baggage to this, doesnt he . Everybody brings baggage, especially if youve been in Public Service as long as he has. The question is whether he can kans answer to that. Heres the thing about joe biden, in many ways this is a twoperson race between biden and trump. I know people are upset about that. What it is, biden occupies the establishment lane which essentially Hillary Clinton occupied the last time. Bernie sanders occupied then the progressive lane, but now bernie has all these competitors and Elizabeth Warren is frankly eclipsing him, and everybodys competing in the progressive lane and nobody is competing against joe biden and nobody is disabusing him that hes the frontrunner, and then you have donald trump who is actually affirming it by going after joe biden and giving him more attention. And by 75 sorry, 72 to 25 , democrats say they would rather have someone who is steady, reliable leader has opposed to someone who is going to offer a bold agenda. Let me give an example. Medicare for all. Which has been talked about among many of these Democratic Candidates. Actually eliminates medicare. It puts everybody in a one system. It gets rid of 270 million individual private Health Insurance accounts, including union accounts, and so thats not really been talked about, but i think if that if you go into the general election with medicare for all versus donald trump, i think youre giving donald trump a Real Advantage for reelection. Put this up on the screen from our new nbc news wall street journal poll. The question of enthusiasm among democratic voters. The candidates who are striking a chord with them, not necessarily who theyre going to be voting for, but who theyre enthusiastic about. You see the biggest jump here in our poll over the last month, its Elizabeth Warren. Shes moved up. Biden has slid back a bit on this topic. Cornell, when you get outside of sanders, when youre into buttigieg, warren, harris, the other candidates sort of clustered there, which one of them is best positioned to make a run at biden for the lead in this race . You dont know and thats why you run campaigns because at some point at some point someones going to have to make a move and we dont know. You have biden, who, look, and i dont think and i think bidensbiden is vulnerable. Hes the frontrunner but hes vulnerable. Hes at 1 3 of the vote in a lot of these polls. 72 of the democratic voters already know and already like him. So hes really underperforming from where he is. The voters are still shopping around. On that enthusiasm measure, i think thats why this is important. Ill go back to the conversation you had with chris in dayton, you know, obama carried dayton by, you know hillary underperformed obama in dayton by four points. You know, trump only overperformed romney by one point. So there are a lot of those obama voters who we failed to consolidate and we failed to engage and bring them enthusiastically back. Thats why the enthusiasm the enthusiasm enthusiasm matters. We need a candidate who can, in fact, grow and expand that Obama Coalition and is that joe biden . I dont know if thats the answer. All right. Cornell belcher, rick tyler, thanks for taking a few minutes. Thanks, steve. Up next, taking the temperature on impeachment. Youre watching hardball. L. Steven could only imaginem 24hr to trenjoying a spicy taco. Burn, now, his world explodes with flavor. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday allnight protection. Can you imagine 24hours without heartburn . When crabe stronger. Strong, with new nicorette coated ice mint. Layered with flavor. Its the first and only coated nicotine lozenge. For an amazing taste. That outlasts your craving. New nicorette ice mint. This is a commercial and i know youre thinking. I dont want to hear about insurance. cause lets be honest. Nobody likes dealing with insurance. Right . See, esurance knows its expensive. I feel like im giving my money away. So theyre making it affordable. Thank you, dennis quaid. Youre welcome, guy in kitchen. I named my character walter. Thats great. Id tell you more but i only have thirty seconds so heres a dramatic shot of their tagline so youll remember it. When insurance is affordable, its surprisingly painless. One of the headlines of our new nbc news wall street journal poll is that support is now up for Congress Opening an impeachment inquiry into President Trump. 27 of voters say her is enough evidence to do it now. That is up ten points from just a month ago. But lets not mistake that for a sudden bipartisan groundswell because 48 of voters in our poll also say the whole matter should be closed. No inquiry, no hearings, no impeachment, just let go and let trump finish his term. That number is the exact same as it was a month ago. So this is not a case of people who were deadset against impeachment changing their minds and suddenly embracing it. The shift is a little bit more subtle than that. About a month ago, about 1 3 of voters chose an inbetween position on this question. They werent against impeachment but they werent for it either. At least not yet. They were for continuing to investigate and keeping open the option of impeaching down the road. Call that the nancy pelosi position. The position of most Democratic Leaders in congress. That is what they have been calling for, impeachment excuse me, hearings, yes, but impeachment, well, not now. So what has changed in the last month is that other democrats have started to speak out more. Some of them are in congress. About five dozen now there saying it is time for impeachment. A lot of those democratic president ial candidates are also out there and also saying the same thing. So in other words, within the Democratic Party, among democratic activists and democratic voters, the temperature there is changing when it comes to impeachment. There is a stronger desire to do it, a stronger desire to do it now and not to wait than there was a month ago. In a month from now, well, who knows. Maybe it will be higher still then. So it makes the balancing act for nancy pelosi that much trickier. The more united her own party is behind impeaching now, the harder it will be for her to hold firm and to say no. But outside of the universe of the Democratic Party, support for impeachment remains very limited, in opposition just as high as it was a month ago so plunging into impeachment now would still raise the same political questions, the same uncertainties that it would have a month ago. If democrats keep moving from wait and see to impeach now, pelosi may end up needing the clock to save her. June of 2019 already, the first debate, weve said, less than two weeks away. The first primaries, they are in less than eight months. And impeachment, at least the kind of impeachment that proponents are envisioning, well, that would take a long time to pull off, so for Democratic Leaders who dont want to go down this road but see more and more signs every day its the road their base does want to go down, well, then we dont have the support to impeachment may stop being the argument to lie on and it may be replaced by a different one. We just dont have enough time to do it. Thats hardball for now. Chris matthews is back at 10 00 p. M. Tonight. A special event. A deciders town hall live from dayton, ohio. Youre not going to want to miss that one. Tune in then. In the meantime, all in with chris hayes starts right now. Tonight on all in i think that this is about us doing our jobs. The movement to impeach the president keeps growing. Are we doing hour job as a member of the house . Tonight, why more americans are getting on board with impeachment as more democrats say they dont want to wait until the election to vote on the president s fate. I am going to be supporting and seeking and trying to build consensus for an impeachment inquiry into the president. Then senator chris murphy on new republican calls to bomb iran. Unprovoked attacks on commercial shipping warrant a retaliatory military strike against the Islamic Republic of iran. What we learned from the Democratic Candidates at the Poor Peoples Campaign president ial forum. I know