Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20180917

Kavanagh spent the majority of today in White House Counsel Don Mcgahn and others from the counsels office calling key members of congress in a direct effort of damage control. Actually a desperate effort. And heres the breaking news tonight. The Senate Judiciary committee announced it will hold public hearings this coming monday with kavanagh and his accuser christine blosey ford t. Came from all ten democrats on that committee. Chairman Chuck Grassley requested a delay saying there are, quote, serious questions about judge kavanaghs record, truthfulness and character. A growing number of republican senators have also expressed concern over the allegation and said that the senate needs to hear from the accuser. The white house said in a statement tonight judge kavanagh looks forward to a hearing where he can clear his name of this false allegation. Earlier in the day the president reaffirmed his support for his nominee with the reservation that he, the president , wanted members of the senate to be happy with the process. Hes an outstanding intellect and outstanding judge, respected by everybody. Never had even a little blemish on his record. I dont know. It depends on the process. Id like see a complete process. Id like everybody to be very happy. If it takes a little delay, it will take a little delay. It shouldnt certainly be very much. Has he offered to withdraw . Next question. What a ridiculous questions. Do you think this confirmation is on track . I think hes on track, yes. I think hes very much on track. If they delay it a little bit just to make sure everybody is happy, they want to be happy. In an explosive on the record interview, ford accused kavanagh of attacking her while they were both in high school. Ford said she decided to go public with her story because she felt like her Civic Responsibility outweighed her anguish and terror about retaliation. She had initially written a confidential letter to her congresswoman anna eshu and Dianne Feinstein in july but declined to go public for fear of retribution. In an extensive interview with the Washington Post ford recounts in detail events that happened roughly 30 years ago. Ford alleged that while in high school, kavanagh and a friend both, quote, stumbling drunk, stumbling drunk, corralled her into a bedroom where she said kavanagh pinned her to a bed and groped her over her clothes, clumsily attempting to pull off her bathing suit. He might inadvertently kill me. He put his hand over her mouth so she couldnt scream. Ford said she told no one about the incident in any detail until 2012, thats six years ago during couples therapy with her husband. She also told her husband obviously at that time. The therapist provided notes to the Washington Post in support of her claims. Nbc news has not spoken to in order nor seen the letter she wrote. This morning her lawyer told nbc that she is willing to testify under oath. Ms. Katz, is your client willing to testify about the the judicialery committee publicly and tell this story . She is. Shes willing to do whatever it takes to get her story forth, yes. Well, shes already taken a Lie Detector Test administered by a former fbi agent. Brett kavanagh refused to answer any questions from reporters on his way to the white house earlier today. Mr. Kavanagh, are the allegations true . Do you have any response to christy ford . Will you testify . The white house did provide this statement on batch of judge kavanagh. Quote, this is a completely false allegation. I have never done anything like what the accuser describes to her or anyone. I am willing to talk to the Senate Judiciary committee in any way the committee deems appropriate to refute this false allegation. Anyway, congressman anna eshu from california joins us now. Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us. Ive known you a lot time, a lot of respect for you. Tell us in detail right now, how did you learn about this allegation . My constituent called my office and asked to meet with me. It was as simple as that. And so an appointment was set up. When i returned from washington that week, i met with her with dr. Ford, for an extended period of time. I think about an hour and a half, the first thing that i thought was important to tell her was that everything that she spoke about with me had complete privacy because these all of my constituents receive that, but i thought it was very important that she understand that. She told me her story. I asked her many questions along the way. And i thought that it was important, chris, to tell her that i was not there to tell her what to do, that she was there with me and that i would assist her in whatever her choice was. And so on the heels of that, i contacted senator feinstein because she is the Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary committee. This is where the issue is and where it lies. And about ten days after that, my constituent wrote a letter to senator feinstein. We made sure that that letter was communicated the very day, the date of that letter. I was struck by more than one thing. My constituent is the professor next door. She is softspoken, very intelligent, very concerned about her family, her privacy. But there was no question in my mind at the end of our meeting that she had endured a lot, and that she carried a lot of pain because of what she was subjected to. Do you believe her . I told her at the end of our conversation that i believed her. And you do . I do. Okay. Tell me about her passion, her feeling, if you can. Are you in a confidential relationship with her at this point . She told you about the experience that affected her life. The part that grabbed me and a lot of people, its not just after in a sexual way, its not that he was drunk, whatever he was, but that he held his hand over her mouth so she couldnt call for help. That really struck i think a lot of people we talked to today. Well, there was no doubt in my mind when she shared the details of what had taken place and in detail, she had detailed memory of it that it was, it was still with her. She was still living with this. And over the years she, she knew because his name was in the newspapers that he was served in a president ial administration, that his name was placed in nomination for a judgeship, and that, you know, the succeeding chapters were marked by the experience that she had with him. And it was very painful for her. So i think that shes tremendously courageous. It really takes courage to have courage. And i think that inside of her, she examined what it meant to remain private, and also what it would mean if she crossed over into the public square. And that takes a tremendous amount of courage and weighing the equities on both, i think she decided obviously, in the last many hours, that she wanted to tell her story, the truth, to the American People, and not have it mischaracterized by anyone else. Did she think its a matter of current character . Did she think that what he did to her, that she said he did to her those years ago reflect on who he is today . Did you get that from her . I dont think those are the words that she used. But she was deeply violated by what happened. Yeah. And like so many others that are subjected to sexual abuse, they end up feeling guilty themselves. They feel ashamed of what happened. Theyre afraid if anyone learns about it, what they will think of them. And thats why i think the truth chris, in a democracy, were always seeking the truth. And so shes courageous to tell the truth and that should be honored, and she should be not only that truth should be honored by demonstrating respect for her as she moves forward to give her testimony. Well, i think youre a great representative. Thank you. Stick around for a moment, congresswoman. Thank you, chris, thank you. Barbara boxer with fight back. Also kasie hunt, correspondent for the nbc news. Senator, thank you for joining us. One of the reasons you were elected back in the 90s was anita hill and the woman of the year. What do you feel looking back at your senate experience and this case . Let me be clear. I wouldnt have gotten to the senate were it not for anita hill. I feel, you know, im ld like t believe it was my winning personality. They looked at the women, no women on the Judiciary Committee. Chris, this is eerily, eerily like what happened to anita hill. Even you have Chuck Grassley who was on the Committee Really being terrible to anita hill. And orrin hatch and others. And theyre still there. The difference is Dianne Feinstein is the Ranking Member. Kamala harris is on the committee. Masey is on the committee. Amy closing bel amy klobuchar. We now have a more representative senate. This woman is to be believed. Anna eshu is one of the most incredible people in this world. She has a heart of gold and shes sharp. She knows after sitting with that woman, you can believe anna eshu, and you can believe dr. Ford. This was attempted rape, and this is a woman who exhibits, dr. Ford, courage, but the classic signs of posttraumatic stress. Okay. Let me bring in kasie hunt, senator. You asked senator Susan Collins if she believed susan fords allegation. Heres what senator had to say to you, kasie. Having the opportunity to observe her, being questioned, read a transcript or a deposition and make that kind of assessment is so important. Obviously if judge kavanagh has lied about what happened, that would be disqualifying. Well certainly senator orrin hatch of utah was asked a similar question by nbc. Heres what hatch said. Do you think that any of these claims are legitimate . No, i dont. I think this woman, whoever she is, is mixed up and but i cant speak for her. All i can say is, no, i dont. I know the, i know the judge very, very well. I know how honest he is. I know how straightforward he is. I know how he stands up for what he believes and whats right. And frankly if you were going to believe anybody, youd believe him. Kasie, you werent around during that period when anita hill was up. I tell you, hatch is stalking t talking the same way he was back then. Immediate presumption ask the man is telling the truth, the woman isnt. Orrin hatch was here then, and leahy. Senator boxers point the senate changed on the democratic side is a good one. I also think you saw a very quick evolution of thinking on this topic and it evolved away from where senator hatch started the day. And frankly where Mitch Mcconnell started this afternoon around 3 30. He went to the floor and said, you know, Chuck Grassley, the Judiciary Committee, theyre going to handle this by the book. He said theres no book for this first of all. Second of all, they were talking about do doing background calls to fix this. It became clear quickly over the course of the following hours that republican members of the republican conference and im going to name the three women in particular who you should be focused on here, Susan Collins, lisa murkowski, and im going to add shelley of West Virginia to that list. She came out tonight and said, we need public hearings. We need to hear from this woman and from judge kavanagh under oath in public. And so this is just this tells you a lot about where this confirmation process is. And it is balanced on a knifes edge right now here in the senate. It really could go either way. And this public hearing promises a public spectacle unlike, in many ways, like nothing we have seen since that anita hill hearing 26 years ago. And its one that really could, you know, go either way. These public hearings are so unpredictable. Again, to go back to senator boxers point. Dr. Ford is going to be given a lot of opportunities to make her case, probably more than the opportunities that anita hill was given because there are going to be women on this committee that are very fired up about it. And quite frankly, the optics are difficult for republicans because theyre going to have a panel of all men sitting on the other side. And there is going to be a lot of thought. This is why at 3 30 in the afternoon, Mitch Mcconnell wasnt interested in having a hearing like this because there is a very real risk in this new culture that we living in in the me too world where frankly women voters, women candidates are so engaged. This was already the year of the woman. And youre going to throw this on the flames just a couple weeks before the midterm elections . Its not a good look. Senator boxer, i just wonder, you have a memory i know of what as you said was what helped getting you elected to the senate years ago, the anita hill. You do you sense deja vu all over again with hatch . Unbelievable. Orrin hatch says already he doesnt believe dr. Ford. A, he hasnt met her. B, she took a Lie Detector Test. Why isnt he suggesting that judge kavanagh take a Lie Detector Test . I mean, it is stunning that all those years later and orrin hatch is saying the same thing. I want to make a point. After anita hill and it was a d debacle. There were three women waiting to come forward and corroborate her testimony. This cannot be a rush job. Were talking about attempted rape here. This is serious. This is serious stuff. Putting your hand over someones mouth, you dont forget when that happens to you. And women all over this country and the men who love women and theres a lot of men who really care, are going to be searching for the truth. And heres the deal. There is no rush. Do you know that the republicans waited a full year before they filled that judge scalia vacancy . Now its been just a couple of months. Sit back, do your job, do it right. Let the truth come out. Let there be justice in this land. Thank you. Thank you very much, former senator Barbara Boxer of california. Thank you, u. S. Congresswoman. Anna eshu. By the way, this appointment for Supreme Court is for life. They can take their time. Coming up, President Trump is reportedly playing off the c kavanagh story. I think hes facing catastrophe on this. How can they help confirm his presence in the Supreme Court . Former Campaign Chairman manafort is cooperating with robert mueller, hes telling all. How is the kavanagh nomination going to affect the election in 50 days, 50 days. This is hardball. A leaf is a hint that is connected to each person in your family tree. I learned that my ten times great grandmother is George Washingtons aunt. Within a few days i went from knowing almost nothing to holy crow, im related to george washington. This is my cousin george. Discover your story. Start searching for free now at ancestry. Com this is moving day with the best inhome wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. He is somebody very special. At the same time, we want to go through a process. We want to make sure everything is perfect, everything is just right. I wish the democrats could have done this a lot sooner because they had this information for many months and they shouldnt have waited till literally the last days. They should have done it a lot sooner. But with all of that being said, we want to go through the process. That was President Trump. Of course in his first Public Comments on the assault that threatens to derail his Supreme Court pick judge kavanagh. Hes standing by his nominee. He said it was ridiculous whether kavanagh should withdraw his nomination when asked that by a reporter. Kavanagh spent hours at the white house today. An official told nbc news they did not include a meeting with the president. Theyre keeping him away. A source close to the process told nbc news the White House Counsel Don Mcgahn wants kavanagh to fight. Meanwhile the daily beast reports the president has told those close to him in recent days he believes there is a conspiracy or organized effort by democrats to smear kavanagh and try to derail the nomination of a, quote, good man. And bloombergs reporting that according to one white house official, the Trump Team Plans to try to discredit the charges for surfacing late in the confirmation process and to question the credibility of the accuser because she didnt tell anybody about the incident when it happened. For more im joined by Jennifer Rubin opinion writer for the Washington Post, and Yamiche Alcindor for the pbs news hour. Its one thing could cover up something youre embarrassed by, you try to forget or successfully forgot. It didnt happen. Thats always a possibility. But for a president to stick by a nomination that he now believes may well be true a problem that may be true, serious problem, a serious problem with this nomination, how do you explain trump sticking with this thing if he does, knowing now that this woman is going to testify under oath, shes already passed a lie detector, she told her husband six years ago, she told people in Family Therapy six years ago. Why would she ever make up a story like that if it wasnt true . Your thoughts. Jennifer, and if its true why would trump stick with this nomination. Trump always denies it, he always discredits women. This is a guy already an unindicted coconspirator thanks to Michael Cohens testimony in open court. He has always disparaged women. He stuck by rob porter, said he was a fine guy. Almost exactly the same term. Why would he do any differently . And frankly, i think his notion that the republicans are going to get up there and do what they did with anita hill is in fantasy land. I mean, at this point thats my point. Its not just youre not just saying he doesnt believe women. He has to face the political reality. Is he incapable bob woodward says in his book hes incapable of facing reality. The reality as i see it right now probably this nomination is koolkd. And he doesnt is he willing to accept that when the time comes and withdraw it or not . Does he have that ability to face reality . Yeah, he doesnt believe it. He believes hes going to muscle through like he always does. I think when those senators get in front ever her and she in front of them and we see that she is a sane, stable, credible person then i think perhaps well see some change. I think yamiche, the question is on the table. Can the president accept reality . If it comes out shes credible, if it comes out his party and the country believes shes credible and believe Brett Kavanagh for whatever reason is denying it, memory loss, wants to deny it, save his own skin, why would trump not just say, okay, im going to throw it in, im not going to get any hurt, im not going to hurt my party over this, im going to drop this guy, why would he continue with it if hes facing reality . I dont get it. I think there are a couple things at play. President trump himself stands accused of sexually abusing women and that he was able to overcome that. He was able to go ahead and win the nomination and win the presidency with women, countless women the New York Times and other publications this president assaulted them. Add to that the fact that President Trump doesnt like to admit a failure. He wants this to be a success. Evangelical christians voted for the president because they said he can get a Supreme Court nominee through. If he fails at that it hurts him politically. Brett kavanagh tells them over and over he denies this. Who wouldnt say that . Of course he would. Sources i talked to say they feel this nomination is on track and they can still get him through partly because of President Trumps success. You know, i think, jennifer, the president is not facing reality. The democrats released the information or held it so long because the woman asked to remain he irrelevant. Its not a sporting event. Its about the simple question, should this guy sit on the Supreme Court alongside Clarence Thomas and the rest of them . Should he be on the United States Supreme Court . I dont think most republican senators are going to say yes. I dont think they will in the end. They dont want to ruin their careers. Your thoughts . Orrin hatch, orrin hatch and Chuck Grassley, okay, theyre old school whatever you want to call it, yesterday. Hopeless. But i dont think the newer members want to ruin their whole careers having a yea next to this nomination. Do you . No, theyre going to have a lot more trouble than they have bargained for. And i think there are two things. One, you saw today how they completely flipped. 24 hours ago they were not going they were going to go forward with and have the vote on thursday. That changed precisely because you have senators like flake and like bob corker coming forward. The second thing is, youre right, as soon as this woman gets up there as a real person, youll notice kavanagh refers to it as the accuser, but a real person before them who is presenting her story in a credible, emotional fashion. I dont know if the republicans are going to have the nerve to beat up on her the way they beat up on anita hill. Yamiche, im glad we have mostly women on tonight. I think young women have experienced this kind of things with guys who have been drink not. I think they know this guy got to say out of hand, worse than out of hand. Criminally, if you listen to the testimony of her so far. Ill going along with jennifer. If you see this person on tv, a human being saying she remembers something with tremendous tragedy in her voice and another guy coming along saying, i dont remember, it never happened, i was never there. The one who can remember what happened, not the one who cant. Your thoughts. Based on my reporting the white house is being cautious for a reason. President trump while still sticking by him is reserved. Hes not going after her on twitter, going on rants talking about the timing. Thats a lot from a president who sometimes goes off on twitter. Im told because white house aides have met with the president over and over again and said, please be cautious, please be reserved. And the fact that Brett Kavanagh was here at the white house with me and all these reporters waiting to try to talk to him and get a question in and that he wasnt he did not meet with President Trump, tells me that this white house at least senses a problem yamiche, whats that about, why did the people in the white house and the president decide not to get him in the same room with Brett Kavanagh with this hanging on him . What was the strategy there . I think the strategy is that theyre playing it cautious. The fact that they were literally feet away from each other and not put in the same room is because theyre trying to protect the president and keep the president being reserved. They sense there is a problem here. Even if publicly theyre saying this nomination is on track, i think they sense there is a problem here and that he might possibly have to withdraw. I think youre right. Jennifer ruben, thank you. Yamiche, youre right, he wants to keep the door open to get rid of this geithner. Manafort cutting deals with investigators, what does it mean for the president . Theyre all flipping, mr. President. This is hardball where the action is. Ahoy gotcha nooooo. Noooooo. Quick, the quicker picker upper bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent. Bounty, the quicker picker upper. Stay at la quinta. Where were changing with stylish makeovers. Then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. Bravo, tall meeting man. Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com start winning today. Havi is not always easy. Plaque psoriasis its a longdistance journey, and you have the determination to keep going. Humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for over 10 years. Humira works inside the body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. 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When you have something you love, you want to protect it. At legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. With an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. Legalzoom. Where life meets legal. This sends a message to anyone who is in bob muellers crosshairs right now, you better get to the special counsel and make your deal now because anyone who gets indicted by bob mueller goes down. Welcome back to hardball. That was u. S. Congressman adam schiff, ranking democrat on intelligence reacting to the news that Paul Manafort has caved to the pressure and will cooperate in full with investigators in the russia probe. Under the broad terms of the agreement, manafort must divulge everything he knows about potential russian collusion, including any new details about that infamous june 2016 Campaign Meeting with russians at trump tower. Manafort is now the 5th trump campai campaign associate after pleading guilty to criminal charges. Late today in an apparent act of retaliation, trump used his president ial powers to immediately declassify documents relating to the investigation including pages in the surveillance warrant to carter page. He directed the department of justice to publicly release all Text Messages relating to the russia investigation without redaction, james comey, andrew strzok, lisa page. They tell nbc news there is a real concern this is a misuse of intel jebs for partisan reasons. Im joined by former u. S. Attorney joyce vance. I think the president will do whatever it takes to save his skin and i question, but there is one thing i think shes hsur to do. Joyce, i believe he will pardon his kids. He has to. The fact that manafort is now cooperating and knows all about the trump tower relationship and he knows about donald junior being there in that meeting with the russians and knows about jared his soninlaw being there, does this force the story to the end, the end game where trump to protect himself is going to have to pardon his kids . It looks like were rapidly heading towards an end game, chris. Manafort is like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for prosecutors. No one really thought that he would end up cooperating with mueller. We still dont know what led that to happen. But one important piece of information was revealed in court when prosecutor Andrew Weissmann indicated that one of the reasons that they were entering this Cooperation Agreement was because they had had the opportunity to debrief manafort. They actually had three days where they were able to talk to him. Prosecutors dont usually conclude a plea deal and figure, well work this out as we go along. Well see what this defendant has to offer after hes cooperated and pleaded guilty. Prosecutors know up front what theyre getting. In this case it looks like they really are getting very high value intelligence information. And you say it could easily lead to the president s kids. What do you make about this thing of retaliation where he said hes declassifying sounds like we went through this three or four weeks ago when word got out trump was going to try to destroy the prosecution by releasing all their information. You know, we dont know for a fact that this is specific retaliation for manafort, but its clearly an effort to undermine mueller and to undercut the investigations credibility. It is also unprecedented. It is dangerous to release this fisa related information. It could reveal methods and sources. It could put people who are currently helping our government out in danger. It could make it difficult, if not impossible, for us to get cooperation that the Intelligence Services could use in the future to keep americans safe from harm. So very dangerous to compromise the fisa process. Its equally unprecedented to reveal information and evidence during an ongoing criminal investigation. Carter page is still likely a subject or target of this investigation. Bruce orrs notes about the russia investigation are ongoing information thats being used. The president is deliberately compromising this investigation, trying to undercut mueller, trying perhaps to save his own skin, but certainly not putting the best interests of the American People first. Do you think its a domino situation now that manaforts come down, that anybody now is getting the message, dont mess with mueller, make your best deal, give him all youve got, break with trump . You know, manafort is sort of an octopus here. We dont know how many tentacles he has. We have some suspicion, we know certainly he can talk about the trump tower meeting where he was a participant. He can talk about the Republican Convention and changes to the party platform. But what else can he talk about . Are there foreign dealings . Is there money laundering, who is at risk . We dont know. Certainly people who have had transactions with him that are on the criminal side of the spectrum should be very frightened right now. Well, i think it might put the president directly into collusion with the russians over the trump tower meeting. He may have known of it ahead of time and this guy knows it, manafort knows it. He could know all about why there were so Many Russians float ag round at the Republican Convention in cleveland, why did that become a russia event. What did trump know about that. Thank you so much joyce vance for that. Up next, to what extent would putting kavanagh on the Supreme Court motivate democrat and Republican Voters this november . 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This is an allegation thats 35 plus years old and now youre going to attempt to try to deal with that in a very truncated period of time. To my opinion, most americans are looking at this, most mainstream americans and theyre thinking that congress has hit rock bottom and started to dig. I think this woman, whoever she is, is mixed up. I know the judge very, very well. I know how honest he is. I know how straightforward he is. I know how he stands up for what he believes and whats right. And frankly if you were going to believe anybody, youd believe him. Welcome back to hardball. Republicans and leadership are lined up behind kavanagh for the Supreme Court. The Senate Judiciary committee announced they will have a meeting with judge kavanagh and Christine Blasey ford. Thursdays vote which was going to happen as it should be delayed, until the allegation against kavanagh is further investigated. Well, obviously. With less than two months by the way until the midterm elections, how republicans handle this could have a significant impact, dont you think, on the election . Lets bring in tonights round table michael steele, adrian elrod hillary for make. And jonathan allen. I want to go to adrian on this. How do you look at this . I think the republicans maybe im projecting where i think its going. We heard from anna eshu and what her accounting of the meeting was like with the accuser, dr. Ford. You dont want to be on the side of kavanagh of next mondays tv performance. Hell be saying i dont remember nothing. I wasnt there, i dont know what shes talking about. I never met her, blah, blah, blah. And this doctor is going to come on, this ph. D. Is going to come on and in detail describe what happened. I dont think its a fair fight. I think shes going to make the case. Yeah, this is a bad scenario for republicans in general. I mean first of all if youre Mitch Mcconnell there is no easy answer here going forward. On the one hand youve got her testifying in front of a committee which, by the way, the Judiciary Committee every single republican on there is a white man. So going in front of that committee and trying to, you know, and showing that i have every reason to believe shes going to show shes a credible witness and that her story is very credible, that looks bad for the Republican Party in general. And then, of course, going forward, what do you do if she comes off as credible, if republicans decide they think kavanagh comes off as credible, what does Mitch Mc Donnell do, does he allow this to go forward . Either way, you are not placating to white thank you, adrian. I agree with you completely. Let me go to michael on this. If youre a republican and you like the job as senator, do you want to vote for this guy or get youd like the president to pull this baby as fast as possible . Your thoughts. First off he want this had vote three weeks ago at this point. Thats that. But youre right, i think they want they are probably looking for ways to avoid this and i believe that it at least is beginning to be discussed in some circles at least how they withdraw this nomination, which opens up a door that the Party Leadership does not want to have go through come the fall. So, this is a no win scenario for them. If she comes off as really credible before the country, he largely doesnt remember what happened, there is the problem there. And then it becomes a matter of, do you go through with this nomination and push a vote, in which case everybody now is going to be on the hook, which i think puts the senate in play in a way that people arent calculating right now. Or do you pull this nomination and start over, which then again opens up the door, chris, where there is no confirmed nominee. The base is ticked off. Democrats seize an opportunity, and youre a whole different space. Jonathan, youve got Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court for life. If you put this guy and you have two guys with this problem, both republicans, thats two out of nine. I mean, it reminds me of the situation election six years ago you wonder which is the rape candidate, murdoch or aiken. This is not good politics if they win. I dont see the win here for the republicans. I think youre right, chris, in that the kavanagh nomination is now so damaged, you talk about that area of the electorate where republicans are suffering the most right now. And its suburban white women. This is not going to play well with them whether or not Brett Kavanagh gets this confirmation. And in addition to that, you know, senator john cornyn earlier this year told a koch network Donor Conference that he wouldnt mind if this nomination slipped a little past october 1st. The idea being it would be good for republicans if this was held closer to election day. It would motivate their base. Sometimes you should be careful what you wish for because this is getting pushed back further i dont think so. I dont think you want this at the top of the question for the people. Anyway no. There are new polls go to the new polls. Hardball 10, top 10 races decide whog controls the senate come next january. According to cbs news poll out right now, Claire Mccaskill of missouri is tied with josh in missouri. Tester and rosendale, hes the incumbent. The two key states hoping to pickup in tennessee, democrat bred esen is leading by five points. In arizona democrat is leading by 7 points. Let me start with you. Its tough to pick up the senate. You either win four and lose three. Four potential pick ups. You have to win with beto orourke. If orourke wins anything is possible. Can they still win the senate, the democrats . First of all, i actually think the events that transpired in the last 48 hours, i think democrats are going to win the senate. Secondly, its also important to keep in mind, chris, of course these polls were conducted before dr. Ford came out. And, of course, before the expect consolidate that spectacle thats going to take place next week. If you look race by race individual candidate by individual candidate and you couple that with the polls, democrats are very, very well placed. I would much rather be a democrat, which i am, than a republican at this stage of the game right now in the senate. John, where are you on this . I think its still tough to win the senate. I think theyll win the house. The senate you have to win four, lose one or lose two, win three and lose one. Your thoughts . I agree, amazing hard for democrats to win. The same opposing forces youve had all along. A democratic enthusiasm, maybe a wave building. On the other side, these race s are in heavily republican states. Look at the way missouri has been voting, 16 points for trump, montana even larger than that, a victory for trump. So the fact that these races are close is good news for the democrats running in them. And at the same time theyd like to be able to see some separation. One thing in that arizona poll, they had a tough republican primary there. I bet that closes a little bit before election day. So mcsally is going to pick up points. Let me ask you about that. Michael, do you see a chance for the democrats to win the senate . I do. I think there is a pathway there. A number of us have been talking about this for a while now. Everything is on the table in this election. This is a lot more like 2006 that i think people realize in terms of how voters are processing how they feel and the president for good or bad is at the tip of that spear. So thats whats going to drive the number. You layer on top of this the mess that you notice becoming the kavanagh nomination, thats going to animate the base on both sides. The question really becomes, are those democrats seen the potential to hold off the nominee of the Supreme Court from getting on the bench as a big animator or big republican base, we have to protect kavanagh, what draws them out is going to be what ultimately wins this election. Ill tell you one thing it does, protects high camp and donley and mansion from having to vote for the nominee. Thats right. They dont have to vote for this nominee any more. They are protected from that by common sense. Thats right. Michael steel, adrian he will rod and john thanl. Hardball back after this. Cancer. Its very personal. At Cancer Treatment centers of america, we use diagnostic tools that help us better understand what drives each persons cancer. Like christine bray. After battling Ovarian Cancer for several years, her test results revealed a drug therapy that targeted her tumor. Today, christines metastatic cancer is in remission. Were not just fighting cancer. Were outsmarting it. 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Film maker Michael Moore and author bob woodward both our guests tomorrow night here on tuesday on hardball. On friday night ill be out in south bend, indiana, home of notre dame with joe donley. The senator is in a tough rematch, reelection. Hes one of the key senators likely to decide the fate of Brett Kavanagh Supreme Court nomination. And well be right back. Friends, colleagues, gathered here are the worlds finest insurance experts. Rodney mastermind of discounts like safe driver, paperless. The list goes on. How about a discount for long lists . Gold. Mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. Its a gift. And jamie. Present. Together we are unstoppable. So, what are we gonna do . Insurance. Thats kind of what we do here. You shouldnt be rushed into booking a hotel. With expedias addon advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. Addon advantage. Only when you book with expedia. 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Tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. The details make a difference. The man makes them matter. See real results at botoxcosmetic. Com men. Trump watch monday, september 17, 2018. The kavanagh nomination is now about donald trump. The man who nominated kavanagh will ultimately have to renominate him if, after we hear testimony from the accuser and testimony from kavanagh, the president will need to say whether he still wants him on the Supreme Court. It comes down to whether this president is willing to accept facts or not. There is no way trump would have picked kavanagh, lets be honest, for the Supreme Court with this hanging over him, no way he can realistically or morally stick with this nomination given what Christine Ford has now said. When she told her husband a half dozen years ago, which she passed a Lie Detector Testifying to. It will come down to the two questions about trump raised by Bob Woodwards book, can trump recognize reality . Can he tell the truth when he does recognize reality . Woodward quotes the advice trump gave a friend who had confessed a bad behavior toward women. Quote, this is from trump. Youve got to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women. If you add mid to anything and any culpability, then youre dead. Youve got to be aggressive. Youve got to push back hard. I repeat, the issue here now is donald trump. If he sticks with kavanagh, if he sticks to this nomination, hes doing so with full knowledge that there is a person out there, Christine Ford, who says his Supreme Court nominee put his hand over her mouth to keep her from screaming of desperately yelling out the ugly truth of what was being done to her at the time. If donald trump extinction to this nomination, he with all his power and prestige as president of the United States, hell be doing the same thing, putting his hand over her mouth. Its still up in the air, of course. But donald trump will have the opportunity next week to hear the case against his nominee. If the case is sound, he, the president , will have to budge off his position supporting kavanagh. Hell have to admit that the nomination cannot be justified. Knowing trump, that will not be easy nor is it something we can safely expect him to do. And thats hardball for now. Thanks for being with us. All in with chris hayes starts right now. Tonight on all in. Are the allegations true . Do you have any response to Christine Ford . The kavanagh accuser comes forward. She clearly considers this an attempted rape. And the white house tries to save its nominee. Has he offered to withdraw . Next question . What a ridiculous question that is. Tonight, what we know about the allegations and what we dont know about