Chris Matthews debates hot political issues with politicians, newsmakers and Washington leaders. Sunday in washington d. C. Closely following the terrible events in charlottesville, virginia. We condemn this egregious display of hatred and bigotry and violence on many sides. I think there is blame on both sides. In his decision this morning to once again get into the culture war by attacking mostly black athletes for kneeling. Trump writing the nfl players are at it again taking a knee when they should be stands proudly for the national anthem. He added be happy, be cool, a Football Game that fans are
paying so much to watch and enjoy, is no place to protest. Stand proudly or be suspended from playing. Kenny stills wrote we were not protesting the national anthem, we were actively working to create. I am joined by ashley parker, eugene scott. Thanks to all of you for being with us. Ashley, let me start on the question of the president , this is not the first time we have seen this choosing to go on twitter and choosing to rile everybody up. There is that new policy, that dispute. There is kneeling again taking place. He is choosing to respond to it. Take us, in terms through what it sees as its political arsenal, where does the white house see this issue of kneeling . In a little bit, you have to separate the president from the white house. On the one hand he is reactive and responding to something he saw with the nfl players again as the season starts up. This is something he has talked to aides and confidants about. He thinks these fights, cultural wedge issues, especially taking on the nfl, mentioning the nfl players by name. He thinks this is a good fight for him. He thinks this is something he could win. He enjoyed wading into. He is choosing and it is intentional. He believes this is a political upside. Eugene, if this is something that trump looks at and thinks
it is going to fire up his base, is there a counter effect. Does it fire up the other side . It probably does. The president , when he weighs into these racially charged issues, and doing it now at the time of the anniversary of charlottesville, it makes folks remember and see that this is a kind of cynical very cynical political ploy on his part to try to, you know, it is a wedge issue to him. And i dont think it is anything more than that. And it will rile up people on the other side. There is a Washington PostKaiser Foundation poll from the spring, 53 of americans say it is never appropriate to kneel during the national anthem. 42 say it is sometimes appropriate. David, how do you read those numbers . On the one hand, i think that number has fallen. I think it was over 60 the folks were saying over a year ago saying it is never appropriate. So i wonder do some of those outside of trumps base who say never appropriate, how does these comments from him lay as a cynical racially charged. A majority of people suggest you should stand for the national anthem. And there is a leadership component. The reality is those who kneel are doing so out of patriotism not pushing back against patriotism. And to eugenes point, doing it
on the anniversary of charlottesville that cant be overlooked. The president will never be able to get away from. Similar to Bush 43 Standing by his fema director. Donald trump can never escape the person he was during the events of charlottesville and without trying to escape it, he was doubling down in these culture wars. He was wrong. It is a failure of leadership. If you tell the American People, god bless you for wanting to stand for the national anthem, but part of what this nation was standing about it, are those questions. Not to admonish and criticize those who choose to kneel. A. C. , you investigated the White Supremacist and neonazi
involved in that 2017 charlottesville rally. Over time it is in the last year, couple of years, i have seen this whole White Supremacy thing become more embolden. Just in the last couple of years . Yeah, more active in my career. In almost 30 years. Yeah. You would see a mainstream that you wouldnt expect. College kids become embolden in this movement. It worries me a lot. I am concerned. I am afraid charlottesville can happen again and be a lot worst. I think everybody remember, it was this friday night a year ago where they had that rally and the folks with the torches, Everybody Saw that kick off last weekend. And those were the people donald trump was referring to, good people on both sides. Tell us what you learned about
the White Supremacist who were there. And where they are coming from and what is motivating them and where they stand in society. Surprises there in terms of the status maybe these people have . Yeah. I think when people think about White Supremacist, they think about the earlier generation, the klan, the neonazis, the militia movement. The current generation is different. Almost all young men under 30. Well off or affluent college educated. People think these guys are not very bright, a bunch of red necks and that is wrong. These are sophisticated young men, intelligent and able to manipulate media and social media in ways that their predecessors could never dream of. When we look back
acharlottesvil At Charlottesville A year later, any sense the president drawing lessons on that. Does he look back a year later and take anything from it . A few Inflection Points in his presidency or campaign. One was access hollywood. But in charlottesville it is a low point in his presidency in that moment, but no one resigned over it in the white house and he got through it and one of the lessons that was not new to charlottesville but comes in a lot of low moments where the rez seems to recover, is that he will recover and nothing matters for that long. These are blips and things that he has to hunker down. This is a president who continues to defy gravity. And he may do that in the future. It is not the first time with donald trump as a candidate or president , but i think donald trump around this time Approval Rating was in the mid to high 30s. It is a couple of ticks higher, what do you make of that. There obviously is nothing that you or i can imagine that donald trump could do that would cause his base to tell pollsters they are abandoning him. Jooe overwhelming support of republicans. He will need more than that to get reelected and he loses people on the fringes, people who Cannot Stomach the racism and the division and the anger and so i think he does pay a price but not with the core base. David jolly, longer term, maybe this presidency goes two more years, maybe it goes four more after that, we will see what the election holds. But longterm, the Republican Party has taken a turn here with donald trump to obviously a different style of politics. The demographic coalition at least going after bluecollar white voters that put him over the top in 2013. Is it going to keep following this road or when trump goes away, this goes away . Everybody is wondering what comes next and be the consequences could be tragic. To ashleys point that this
generations. When you think about this, eugene, he is the same guy 30, 40 years ago, here is one thing where there is a difference, 18 years ago donald trump ran for the reform party nomination. Pat buchanan was being egged on by donald duke. He would leave the reform party and did not want to be associated with it. David duke was at this rally. He has changed on his posture toward this david duke element. Look at the hard edge, the bitterness and the anger, racial
anger. He gives, by this, he gives permission for the expression of just sort of flat out racist statements that would not have heard ten years ago and would have been rejected by any previous president that i can think of going back to woodrow wilson. Republican or democrat. And trump encourages it and brings it out into the sunshine and i think the party will pay a price, the country is paying a price. Thank you all for joining us. And be sure to tune in on sunday. Msnbc, breaking hate, 9 00 p. M. Sunday night. On monday, chris will be back and sit down with omarosa talking about her new book
unhinged. Coming up, rick gates copped a plea. The mueller team is not done with him. What role is he playing in the russia probe. Next, Chris Matthews talked to professor about race in america. And who the voters think is scarier, donald trump or nancy pelosi. Kris kobach says he is going it recuse himself from the vote count. And finally the roundtable will be here and tell me something i dont know. This is hardball where the action is. phone ping gentlemen, i have just received word the louisiana purchase, is complete instant Purchase Notifications from capital one. So you wont miss a purchase large, small, or very large. Technology this helpful. Could make history. Whats in your wallet . Your hair is so soft did you use head and shoulders two in one . I did mom. Wanna try it . Yes. It intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. Manolo . Look at my soft hair. I should be in the shot now too. Try head and shoulders two in one. Federal judge holding roger stone in contempt of court. Listening. If they are hearing President Trump say it is a witch hunt, if that is what they are thinking then this is more fodder for them. What the lawyers should have asked, are you getting more benefit providing information. You think the case might be in trouble here. I think so. Do you agree with that . Well no question that the judge has meddled in this case. Rick gates, he has been tarnished and questionable about his own ethics and integrity. Can people trust him. But the level of evidence is substantial. Yeah, you have concern, but i am not sure that he is not going to be convicted. The government has a good conviction record in general. President trump, his personal
attorneys jay sekulow and Rudy Giuliani discussing ways that trump could be in a perjury trap. You have one witness who says this is what happened and then another witness that recalls, oh no, thats not how i recall it. Flynn is the example. No crime, if it had been said, the president says, go easy on him. When the president says you know. He didnt say stop it. Dont do it. So no crime. However, It Didnt Take place according to the president. According to comey it did. Of course if it did, it wouldnt have mattered but you are right. According to the daily beast, trumps lawyers are fighting the case in a public. It is fascinating to see. Other investigations involving president s having the two lawyers on the radio going back and forth. What do you make of it what giuliani is up to. Is it effective in the court of Public Opinion . We will see. That is what nixon did in watergate. A pr. They knew the facts were against him. There is no question, the president of the United States is a bit of a wimp. A lot of a wimp. Saying i want to talk, but in fact he doesnt want to talk. It is not just a perjury trap. Whether it it s attacking the manafort trial. Mueller right now has had two
major indictments against more than 30 russians involved in what he claims is Information War against the United States. Are we going to shut down the investigation if there are other spies out there . I mean what is the president doing . What side is he on . Is he on the side of the people of the United States or on his side . Clear that he is on his side. Take us through that from a lawyers standpoint. How real is that when prosecutors get to sit down with someone they are interested in. Is it something that lawyers on the other side should be worried about . Absolutely, trump is dying to say to mueller you are fired. But this isnt the apprentice. Giuliani has an ethical responsibility to defend his client in the court of public
opinion. The issue for giuliani as a lawyer is delay, delay. He knows you cant put President Trump in an interview with mueller. The history shows that there is too many inconsistencies with President Trump. And that tendency on trumps part that keeps talking, keeps talking and goes in circles and not sure what is going to come out. Mueller has the power of subpoena here. If he keeps drawing out this matter giuliani, and delay, delay, we are going to be up to the midterm elections. What are the American People going to think if the president of the United States doesnt come forward and testify. Do you think mueller needs to complete this investigation, does he need to sit town widown trump . He wants the president to come down and explain his point
of view. But this is like nixon and the tapes. Why was nixon fighting the release of tapes that would prove him innocent. Why is trump refusing to testify if he is innocent. If giuliani says no, do you think there is a subpoena . Very well could be the subpoena. This is a president who doesnt want to tell the truth, who is afraid of the prosecutors and has something to hide. Quickly, do you think there could be a subpoena . No. There is a long standing doj policy of a subpoena and a sitting president. While i agree with you, what do you think about a president , what people may think, his base wont really care. We walked up to the line with that subpoena in bill clinton back in 1998. And we will see how this goes, thank you both for being with
us. Up next, it was a year ago sunday that that White Supremacist rally in charlottesville turned deadly. Chris matthews talked to author chris dyson. This is hardball where the action is. This is not a bed. Its a revolution in sleep. The new sleep number 360 smart bed, from 999. Intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts on each side to keep you both comfortable. And snoring . How smart is that . Smarter sleep. To help you lose your dad bod, train for that marathon, and wake up with the patience of a saint. And now, save up to 500 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. Plus, no interest until january 2021. Ends wednesday. The new united Explorer Card makes things easy. Traveling lighter. Taking a shortcut. woooo taking a breather. Rewarded learn more at theexplorercard. Com welcome back to hardball. As i mentioned earlier, White Supremacist are planning a rally
in washington. That protest renewed discussions on the state of Race Relations on the country. Chris matthews spoke about that to Michael Dyson lets watch. What is the but. The but is there is a persistent of malignant black people cant go to starbucks, cant do barbecues in the park. Now that sounds minimal to many people, but it means micro aggressions, race and bigotry in bite size form means that we are not welcome in america. Unarmed black people are still being gunned down in the country. President obama as the first African American president , he was at the top of the pyramid but the rest of the pyramid has been attacked by resentment. If barack obama was not acknowledged as a human being by some people, if the birtherism could take hold in this exquisite human being, what more for the black people who dont have anyone to protect them or it didnt just gesture toward the masses of black people who continued to confront in this country racial bigotry and racial resistment. African americans were among
the first. How do you get that in peoples heads and hearts that they preceded people like me. Irish and english. We know we come from immigrant stock. When are people going to say, yeah, they were here before most of us. That is a great point. In my book, i talk about that conversation between Bobby Kennedy and james baldwin. And at one point Bobby Kennedy says look, hold on for hope because one day, like us, we already produced a president. It went over like a brick cloud. Jimmy baldwin said that is a problem. I have been here for five or six generations. Until people acknowledge that
black people are entrenched and deeply rooted in america. I am from detroit michigan i didnt come from anywhere else but this nation. And many people dont acknowledge this. Let me ask you about politics that is my beat. I am looking at the 2020 thing. Look at the ones roaring to run. Kamela harris seems to be out there. Cory booker seems to be out there. What do you make, of course bernie, i think Bernie Sanders is running again, and elizabeth warren. Do you think it is essential because the democrats, have to have room on that ticket for a person of color. What do you think . When you look at Kamela Harris or senator booker or
governor patrick, or Attorney General holder, rumored he is going to run as well. When you look at that allstar line up, no doubt they are qualified and given the base of drats in this country, black people have been among the loyal constituents. A lot of black and brown people are there. Look at what happened in new york with the unseating of joe crowley. A rising tide of black and brown political figures demanding their space. And of course the Democratic Party has to take them seriously as it vets them seriously. Again, i think i included Kamela Harris another bright star. Thank you so much. Michael eric dyson, the book is
called what truth sounds like. Up next, what is going to motivate Republican Voters more in the up coming midterm. Loyalty to donald trump . Your insurance rates skyrocket after a scratch so small you could fix it with a pen. How about using that pen to sign up for new insurance instead . For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise their rates because of their first accident. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Come undone. A vote for paul davis is a vote for nancy pelosi, that is too risky. Dishonest Danny Oconnor now admits he will vote for pelosi. Pelosi has served as the top democrat in the house in 16 years. Late today, President Trump wrote on twitter, democrats please do not distance yourself from nancy pelosi. Joined by the hardball roundtable, a republican strategist, and a democrat strategist and beth fouhy. When you Start Talking about
nine incumbents and dozens of candidates. Can nancy pelosi get elected democratic leader by this Democratic Party . One of the things that i am concerned with with the Democratic Party, is democrats should not fall in this trap. Republicans want democrats talking about nancy pelosi. This is a strategy they run every two years. When democrats are talking on the issues, speaking about the issues, particularly the local issues that matter in the district they are running. When they fall into the frame that republicans set up, they risk not winning. It is important, if i were advising these democrats, i would tell them to call this strategy from what it is. It is about distracting from the issues, from the corruption that is happening in the trump
administration and making it the argument about nancy pelosi and putting her on the ballot. Again, these numbers, you have got a lot of democrats running in republican friendly districts. On the other hand, folks like an lex andrea ocasiocortez. It makes me wonder, there was tea party uprising. I am looking at numbers here that i havent seen for a long time. She has been an effective good leader for many years. But at this point, perhaps it is this time that she moves along. I dont think at this point the folks who are distancing themselves are doing so because they feel she is a woman, or an older woman, she should shut up. Why not step aside and yet younger people, new people come in and try it out and see how they do. So crowley, joe crowley was supposed to be, if pelosi steps aside, a lot of people think crowley, and he is gone. Now who . People talking about joe kennedy, it is going to be a fight. No question about it. And maybe that right. That again, is a consequence of her sitting there for so long hanging on to that party with no regard to bringing up these younger members. We have seen this a number of times, saw it in pennsylvania, in ohio recently. Republicans try out a lot of different messages, they try taxes, try culture war and end up on nancy pelosi, is it a strong strategy for republicans
to run on this year or represent the absence of any other strategy. It fires up our base. And nancy pelosi is prone to gaffes. I respect her to keep a caucus together. But she comes out and says things like 1,000 to an American Family is crumbs. Her stunning gaffe was about ms13. She went after them with fury, and indicting them on everything. She said they are people too. Gaffes like that could lead to followup questions. If you are a candidate that says either, maybe, i dont know. Yes, i supporter, she seems to be siding with ms13. And all pelosi has to do is say this congress is my last congress as leader of the caucus, and she wont. Is there a chance that happens. You get to september, and you see these democrats distancing themselves. For the good of the party, make this announcement. Nancy pelosi is taken out of context all the time. The attacks that republicans are leveling, they are going to level regardless. If it is not nancy pelosi, they will find a new person. It was barack obama, hillary clinton. And first of all, it is typically a woman, and a woman of color. Democrats are arguing about nan
s cy pelosi, they are not talking about the issues. Democrats have to stay focused. Laser focused. And i want to make another point. Denny haster, the speaker of the house under the republicans is a child molester. Democrats need to hit harder also. I think the republicans, to give some benefit of the doubt here, the haster thing didnt come out until years later. But nancy pelosi is a punching bag. Nancy pelosi gives gifts to us. It wasnt taken out of context. She said they are human beings too. That is a stupid move. And democrats should focus on the issues. They should focus on health care. And the second issue, democrats would be smart if they ceded
this is a great economy. Dont let nancy pelosi become an issue. Dont respond and stick to the issues. Evan, we have had you on a number of times and you are critical of donald trump. I think you are answering my questions about in terms of republicans finding unifying messages. It is a red bull to our base. The other thing though, the nancy pelosi argument was effective when barack obama was president. Unify control. Now we see poll after poll, voters want a check in donald trump in congress. So that argument is not effective. First lady melania trumps parents became citizen
yesterday. You are watching hardball. N is going to make it happen by funding scientific breakthroughs, advancing public policy, and providing local support to those living with the disease and their caregivers. But we wont get there without you. Join the fight with the alzheimers association. The potential to undermine the process. It remains too close to call. Kobach holds a tiny lead right now. Well be right back. Ozempic®. In a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. Oh under seven . vo and you may lose weight. In the same oneyear study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. Oh up to 12 pounds . vo a twoyear study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. Oh no increased risk . Ozempic® ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with Type 1 Diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. Do not share needles or pens. Dont reuse needles. Do not take ozempic® if you have a personal or Family History of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple Endocrine Neoplasia Syndrome type 2,
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u. S. Citizenship. The New York Times reports the couple obtained responcitizensh after being sponsored by first lady melania. We are back with our hardball roundtable. Interesting to see this turn of events with him. But it is an interesting irony isnt it. How about that. Yeah, i mean, look, Chain Migration is a dirty way of putting it. Trump talks about it as though, you know, if you let in one person, they are going to bring in 27dozen relatives with them. None of that is the case. It is effective. And the bond that trump has with his most loyal voters is around immigration. The picture that he paints of immigrants taking advantage of this policy is this dark view of what those people are and what they are going to do not his lovely parentsinlaw. Do you think that seeing trumps Family Benefit from the policy, does that scramble. I am waiting for that Press Conference Melania was supposed to have about her own citizenship. Donald trumps base doesnt care. His am of projection is levels never seen before. His base could care less. Then not applying to to his own
family, it fires of democrats. It is yet another affront to democrats and to other people who are more objective observers of politics. And that is what the trouble is going to be. If you are someone who is not aligned to either party, this ongoing hypocrisy is not allowed. I think that we should actually not be talking about this. It is a distraction that ends up benefitting republicans. Because republicans win independent voters on the issue of immigration. If democrats wanted to be smart, they should say, great, they came in the country legally. They should talk about donald trump is not serious about immigration. 66 of Illegal Immigrants who came to the United States overstayed their visa. And with the wall, they should hit him on Eminent Domain issue. It could take 20 to 30 years and double, triple the cost. On the mexico texas border, 1100 miles are privately owned. And a lot of cases with landowners. The roundtable is staying with us. You are watching hardball. For just 59. Ancestrydna can open you to a world of new cultures to explore. With two times more detail than any other dna test. You can connect more deeply to the places of your past. And be inspired to learn about the people and traditions that make you, you. Savor your dna story. Only 59 our sites lowest price ever