Retaliated yesterday by ordering the removal of 60 american diplomats and forcing closure of a u. S. Consulate in st. Petersburg. Hours later in a conspicuous show of force, the kremlin test launched a new Intercontinental Ballistic Missile this morning. It is said to be capable of delivering up to 15 nuclear warheads. Putin claims the weapon is impervious to american defenses. All of this sparked by the unprecedented chemical attack this month against a former russian spy and his daughter on british soil, that the uk and u. S. Both blame on russia. Despite russias provocations which date back to interference in the election, the new Russian Ambassador to the United States says both countries are to blame. Why do you think the relationship between our two countries has deteriorated to this point, and what responsibility is russia willing to take for that . First, you see that i dont understand why russian should take any responsibility because youll see when we advance, it means we both are responsible. It seems to me that atmosphere in washington is poison, is poisoned. Its a toxic atmosphere. Even i made a joke, my press secretary saying that today, russia is responsible for everything even for bad weather. Its high time for us to stop blaming each other. And now in the wake of that assassination attempt in britain, nbc news reports that the poisoned former spy was allegedly on a kremlin hit list along with seven other targets this according to another former russian agent living in the uk who spoke to Nbcs Richard Engel in a recent interview saying the alleged kremlin hit list includes the name of christopher steele, the former British Intelligence officer who blew the whistle on russian meddling in the u. S. Election in 2016. Im joined by the author of that report Nbcs Richard Engel in salisbury, england where the poisoning occurred. Peter take, chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times and anyone nap is the great grand daughter of nikki ta khrushchev. Richard, let me start with you. The idea that this assassination attempt part of a hit list. What can you tell us about that . Well, its certainly plausible according to a former British Intelligence official who is familiar with russia and russian tactics. I can tell you that the poisoning that happened here in salisbury sent a chill down the Russian Community living in this country. The uk has been something of a magnet for russian dissidents for critics of putin and frankly, for spies who have changed sides and come here to take refuge. We spoke to two former spies, both people that the kremlin considers traitors. They are both concerned for their future, concerned for their lives. And one of them said that in february, he received a call from someone on the inside. We have no way to verify he received that call. We werent on call. He described that he was on this call, that he got a tipoff his name was on a hit list that steele and skripal was on the hit list and that he became deeply concerned when a short time after that, skripal was found in a state of paralysis on a park bench not far from where i am right now. Youre being told seven people supposedly on had list including steele, five others. Any sense who they might be if these are all connected, all sort of individual isolated cases . What else do you know about it . One of the other prominent names on the list was a businessman named bill browder. Ive interviewed him before. He says he knows the russians want him, that the kremlin wants him dead he thinks. Said that this is no he told me specifically if something ever bad happens to me, everyone should know who did it. He means the kremlin. So that his name was on it and other people who russia considers who the kremlin considered traitors. Nina khrushchev, poisonings on foreign soil, this is missile test that russia launched today putin saying impervious to american defenses shutting down con is sue lats. Spies kicked out of this country. A lot of peoples minds we read about, saw, witnessed during the cold war. When you look an the present moment, the state of relations between the two countries how do they stack up . Its very cold warrish. Im constantly confronted with the thought im watching something from the spy who came in from the cold and reading john la ca ray. Its developing in front of our eyes. Its a very chilling reality and it is a possibility that there is a hit list. I wouldnt imagine that theres anything in writing because no good kremlin would leave Something Like that in writing. Putin doesnt like his enemies. We know that he has a very long memory trained by the kgb in a kgb universe, a traitor is a traitor and needs to be punished at any cost. If there is a hit list, is there anything more to it, anything more to be read into it the fact not only that he wants to settle a score or whatever, but that hes willing to do it on foreign soil in this moment . Well, i think what hes doing, theyre using an opportunity. From what i know the way kgb functions its not even the kgb, its a gru, military intelligence. There is an opportunity and they do it. It can be anywhere. Whatever the opportunity presents itself. This is something that needs to be considered and for them, the world is the limit. So that is a possibility. But i also think that in some ways the combination of things may not necessarily and im almost sure that its not by putins making, its all of the stars collided in this one thing and suddenly were talking about not just about the poisoning or the new testing, it the missile is called satan 2, quite appropriate, exactly. And all these other things and the election happened in russia. I think its one of those very big waves. The question is whether russia or the United States would get out of that wave and turn into some sort of road that they can be some conversation happening. That brings to us the question of the leadership in this country, the recent escalation with russia, also testing President Trump who since becoming a candidate for president expressed admiration for putin. While hes shown a reluctance to criticize him for his actions, trumps tougher line in recent days even caught u. S. Allies off guard. As one russia scholar said, the president s heart doesnt seem to be in it but for whatever reason, hes willing to go along with his advisers. Trumps public silence about his shift in policy may stem from his continued desire for closer relations with putin and taking a more aggressive stance on ukraine, the president told his aides not to the it out his decision. Doing so he argued might agitate putin. Peter baker, the accusation against trump has been that hes soft on putin and has some kind of admiration for putin that would have a policy ramification as president. Now weve seen this week kicking out five dozen spies from u. S. Soil and a couple months ago, were talking about the policy in ukraine, sending antitank equipment, missiles over there to ukraine. Thats a step even the Obama Administration didnt take. How can we square their posture in terms of policy from trump with that refusal to publicly say much about putin. Thats the central mystery right now about this administration when it comes to russia. You do see a hardening line. Our reporting shows before secretary of state Rex Tillerson was fired he came to the conclusion that the attempt to cooperate with Putins Kremlin wasnt working. They should take a new approach that would involve more active measures like sanctions which we saw imposed in retaliation finally for the 2016 meddling in the campaign. And then obviously, this action this week in terms of the expulsions. Youre right the president chooses not to say anything about it publicly. He doesnt want to alienate president putin. Theres a reluctance on his part to in effect validate critics who are saying how come you dont say anything tougher on putin. He doesnt like this whole investigation that dogs him and insists the notion of collusion during the campaign was a hoax and therefore, he doesnt want to give in to critics. It does create this you can you duality of policy where theyre willing to throw out more diplomats than at any point and yet the president of the United States remains silent. Richard engel, what do you know from are the standpoint of russia and putin these actions it was a couple months ago with the missiles to ukraine but this week kicking out dozens of spies from the u. S. Did putin, was he expecting that . Did he think this might happen . Did that catch him off guard . Does he feel maybe hes misread trump in some way . Its hard to know whats going on inside putins mind inside the kremlin. I think we have a good sense of why there was this international outburst and this international flurry. Diplomatic activity expelling Russian Diplomats from a couple dozen countries. I think it was about the precedent. This was not just some enemy of the kremlin who was assassinated. This man or attempted to be assassinated. This man wasnt strangled or pushed out a window. He was exposed and his daughter to a military grade nerve agent in a small city where i am right now in england. Two people were seen on a bench frozen solid foaming at the mouth. That is not something that people can ignore. And there was a deep concern among european officials, certainly among british officials and probably american officials, as well unless some sort of line was drawn in the sand, this could be replicated. Nina, on that question of whether this posture shift from the United States if you want to call it that, has caught putin off guard, you said no to that . I dont think so. I think he didnt expect probably 23 countries to do that and most of European Union including georgia which was former soviet republic and has been recently having good relationship. But i think he is preparing himself. I think the game is on. Hes waging a war. We just heard from the new Russian Ambassador that what is russia to blame for and if the west wants to approach it this way, putin is very willing to take that brinksmanship and stare and see who will break first. What is his bottom line . When you look at russia on the world stage, is this posture hes taken in the last few years, is it about russias role on the world stage or about using other global actors to advance his own domestic agenda, his own standing domestically within russia. As gore bo chav would say, where there is a question there is an answer. I think its both. He wants russia to be seen as great power, to return to super power status and he has little to show in terms of economy. His gas and oil kind of game really has gone down. What does he have left . He has left his posture and he has his nuclear and other military things. Also, he wants to be seen as somebody who can stand up to the United States which he thinks is hypocritical, is unfair to russia. It is i think one last line of defense that until trump speaks to him and says putin, you are a murderer, putin is still going to play this game slightly less pushy than he has because he thinks theres some possibility with trump. I think that is really quite quickly waning away and soon enough, will be in an absolute brinksmanship that we saw at the end of the cold war and in the 60s, say the cuban missile crisis. To be in this moment given trump and what he has said publicly and not said about russia, the expectations versus the moment youre just describing there, this is in some ways very difficult a process. Thank you for helping us all tonight. Nina, peter, richard appreciate all of that. Tune in tonight for an all new on assignment with Richard Engel airing 8 00 eastern right here on msnbc. Coming up, two breaking stories tonight. There are protests in sacramento following the Police Shooting of an unarmed black man comes as authorities released new footage of another deadly confrontation with police this one in baton rouge, louisiana. Later the white house playing defense over its new pick to head the va. Once again, President Trump seems toe have gone rogue in calling out his latest cabinet nominee. Plus, trump may have coined the phrase youre fired, but tonight theres more proof he likes to leave the dirty work to others. Finally, the roundtable will be here with three things you might not know. This is hardball where the action is. So im not happy unless my hands are dirty. Between running a business and four kids, were busy. Auto insurance, homeowners insurance, Life Insurance policies. Knowing that usaa will always have my back. Thats just one less thing you have to worry about. I couldnt imagine going anywhere else. Theyre like a friend of the family. We are the cochran family, and well be usaa members for life. Save by bundling usaa home and auto insurance. Get a quote today. Roundup for lawns has arrived to put unwelcome lawn weeds to rest. So draw the line. Roundup for lawns is formulated to kill lawn weeds to the root without harming a single blade of grass. Roundup, trusted for over forty years. Shes a bully and needs to be held accountable. I dont care what title you have. A bully must be held accountable. Thats what were trying to do here. As parkland shooting survivor david hogg speaking out about laura ingraham, earlier this week she tweeted he had been rejected from four colleges. In response he asked advertisers to boycott her show. Since then at least Ten Companies pulled ads. Ingraham said i apologize for any upset or hurt my tweet caused or any of the brave victims of parkland. Be right back. Tch. It brings your business up to speed, doing more with systems you have in place. It can bring all your apps to life and run them within your data center. It is. The ibm cloud private. The cloud thats built for all your apps. Ai ready. Secure to the core. The ibm cloud is the cloud for smarter business. Secure to the core. This ones below market price and has bluetooth. Same here, but this one has Leather Seats use the cars. Com app to compare price, features and value. You know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. We are watching two major stories both developing tonight. In baton rouge, the chief of police announced one of two officers responsible for the death of alton sterling will be fired. And that another would be suspended tore three days. Sterlings 2016 killing captured on video prompted nationwide protests. On tuesday, the state attorney declined to charge the officers because of insufficient evidence. The department of justice also concluded there wasnt enough evidence to bring federal civil rights charges against the officers. Late today, Police Released video showing the moments led leading up to sterlings death. Heres Gabe Gutierrez with the noit footage. It is disturbing to watch. Reporter footage shows the officers responding to a 911 call in 2016. We got an individual at the triple s hes selling cds. Hes got a 9 millimeter whatever in his pocket and he draw it. Reporter a man claiming alton sterling selling cds outside this convenience store. Get on the ground. Reporter the officers confront sterling and the encounter escalates quickly. Previously released cell phone video from a bystander showed part of the struggle but this Surveillance Video from the store shows the moments before and after as officer salamone yells at sterling. Meanwhile in sacramento, the family of stefon clark released a private autopsy today that found he was shot six times in the back and eight times total. In response to the findings, the Sacramento PoliceDepartment Said it had not been provided with the official report from the Coroners Office yet. The 22yearold father of two was killed on march 18th in the backyard of his grandmothers house. According to the department the officers who shot him thought he was armed. No weapon was found, just a cell phone. The officers have been placed on administrative leave. Im joined now by nbcs joe fryer. What can you tell us . Reporter steve, heres what we can tell you. This autopsy was an independence one that was commissioned by the attorneys representing clarks family. Up till now, all we knew is that Police Officers fired 20 shots at stefon clark. We didnt know how many times he was hit. According to the independent autopsy, they say he was hit eight times all times either from behind or to the side. Dr. Bennett who the conducted the autopsy says none of them were from the front. He believes that clark was actually facing his grandmothers house at the time that the first shot basically came in from the side, hit him near his armpit. That spun him around. Then the next six shots were behind him and then the eighth and final shot hit him in the leg either as he was falling down or while he was on the ground. Dr. Amalo also believes clark was still alive for three to ten minutes after he was shot. This is key in the minds of a lot of people because clark did not immediately receive medical attention. Steve . All right, joe fryer out in sacramento. Thank you for that. On wednesday, White House Press secretary Sarah Sanders was questioned about the Fatal Shooting of stefon clark and the absence of charges in the alton sterling case. This is what she had to say. Certainly a terrible incident. This is something that is a local matter, and thats something we feel should be left up to the local authorities at this point in time. The president is very supportive of law enforcement. But at the same time, in these specific cases and these specific instances, those will be left up to local authorities to make that determination and not something for the federal government to weigh intoing. At the funeral, reverend al sharpton called out the white house for their response. Heres what he said. Let me say yesterday, the president s press secretary said this is a local matter. No, this is not a local matter. Theyve been killing young black men all over the country. And for his part, President Trump has weighed in on a number of local issues. Take a look. The result in the death rate around sanctuary cities in and around for innocent americans is unacceptable. Take a look at what happened in San Francisco and kate steinle and countless others. The city of chicago, what the hell is going on in chicago . There are those that say that afghanistan is safer than chicago. For more im joined by basil smikle, former executive director of the new York State Democratic Party and jen kerns former spokeswoman for the California Republican party. Jen, it is certainly true that the white house has not weighed in on every local issue. Theres exceptions but its also true they have weighed in on some. You hear the case there from al sharpton saying this is one where something ought to be said. What do you think about that . I agree with you. I think the statement from the white house was a bit ineloquent. Clearly from your clips anyone can see that the white house has weighed in on local issues. I think this case is different and this is why youre seeing President Trump not weigh in on this. Youve got a case here where youve got the first africanamerican police chief in sacramento. Seems to be doing a very good job. The Police Department issued those body cam recordings within i think 48 hours. I think that was a good start. They also released, which they didnt necessarily have to, release the overhead helicopter video as well as radio transmissions as well as the 911 tape. So by and large, i think the sacramento pd is doing a good job following protocol. I think thats why you see the white house not weighing in. Compared to the kate steinle case, clearly you had a city that was part of this sanctuary city policy that President Trump vehemently disagrees with and he was not sure that there would be justice served for kate in the end. In fact, there was not. Thats why you see he would weigh in on one topic, maybe not the other. He has a bit of confidence that the proper procedure is being followed here. What do you think, basal . From the president s part its hypocritical. He has weighed in on local issues related to police brutality. When nfl players took a knee to protest police brutality, he called hem sobs. Whenever it comes to the lives of africanamericans in this country and latinos in this country, he is silent or he rails against them which he did throughout his campaign. What weve seen is the president saying that the white house is not going to get involved. He might as well as say we dont care. To me, the objectification of black lives we are taxed disproportionately, we are joiled disproportionately and killed at the hands of police disproportionately and the white house is basically saying to us you cannot and should not go to the federal government for any recourse. You cannot go to us for any help and support. Weve seen that in the way that he has gutted the Civil Rights Division of the department of justice. Weve seen that over the last few years when you look at the Supreme Court rulings with respect to the Voting Rights act, its a signal to communities of color, anybody that cares about equity anywhere that the federal government is not open. Is that donald trump got 8 of the black vote in 2016. Theres a broader pattern here. You got to go back 50 years to find a republican candidate who cracked 20 of the black vote. Its not just donald trump. Everything basil was talking about thats bigger than this case in sacramento, do you see donald trump and the Republican Party coming up short in addressing that . Is that linked to the vote totals every four years. Most of what you mentioned happened before donald trump took office. You have to remember hes been in office about a year. So i dont think he can own a lot of things like the Trayvon Martin shooting. Police shootings were happening long before President Trump took office. We have to be clear be that. What you stee President Trump trying to do here and he goes at this as a businessman, is he trying to work on behalf of the communities. We see africanamerican unemployment at its lowest rate ever recorded in american history. Hes trying to effect change in those ways. I do acknowledge could the white house have been a little morel went about the response, should they have put out a statement, it is true. We have high stakes negotiations with north korea coming up, we have critical deadlines looming with issue, russian aggression, attacking our allies. I think when the president decides to weigh in on something, he weighs those factors i mentioned again which is are the local police doing a good job, do they understand the i think the african. Let me just ask it this way though. When you look at the he got, when you see polls, its right around that level. Is he miss agopportunity herer to communicate Something Different . Maybe not just this one story but in general . It could be. In the wake of the parkland shooting he brought families to the white house. He could offer an olive branch to the family here in sacramento, invite them to the white house to have this conversation. Maybe they have that planned. I dont know. Hes not done it. I dont expect him to do it because the families dont have the same color skin. And i feel that. I feel that to my core that this is a president that just has no ear for being able to engage communities of color. And i think that the entire administration is just saying were done, were going to be hands off on this. Let me ask you this. If hes watching this or thinking about this and he hears Something Like you just said and says i want to show thats not the case, whats one thing he could do to start to change the dialogue and perception . He could say come out and say look, and actually owing to your comment earlier, yes, there were some shootings under president obama but president obama made very specific statements about it. He got pilloried on the right for doing so and to some extent on the left for not doing it early enough but he made comments about the communities of color and the relationship with law enforcement. Donald trump could do that and that would signal to some people hes making an attempt. I dont think hes going to solve that problem fully. I dont think that under his administration that you would see a lot of progress. But i do think to answer your question specifically, if hes going to make some inroads, come out and acknowledge theres a problem and talk about how youre going to use the resources of the federal government to address it. Heres what i. Weve got to go. Heres what is not helpful. You saw the protests outside the Sacramento Kings arena. I worked my sources today in sacramento. They said those were outside protesters outside agitators not members of that community. If youre looking to bridge the gap between police and africanameric africanamericans, start with the africanamerican police chief in sacramento working with that family. Thats the way. I there are a lot of emotions in sacramento right now. Thanks to both of you. Up next, a new poll out today shows the majority of americans are ready to protest. What do they want to protest . What issues . Weve got data for you. Im going over to the big board. Well show you, thats next here on hardball. Youre trying to lower your very high triglycerides with a healthy diet. And exercise. And maybe even, unproven fish oil supplements. Not all omega3s are clinically proven or the same. Discover prescription omega3 vascepa. The one thats this pure. And fda approved. Look. Vascepa looks different. Because it is different. Its pure epa. Vascepa, along with diet, is clinically proven to lower very high triglycerides by 33 in adults, without raising bad cholesterol. Thats pure power. Proven to work. Vascepa is not right for everyone. Do not take vascepa if you are allergic to icosapent ethyl or any inactive ingredient in vascepa. Tell your doctor if you are allergic to fish, have liver problems. Or other medical conditions and about any medications you take, especially those that may affect blood clotting. 2. 3 of patients reported joint pain. Its clear. Theres only one vascepa. Ask your doctor about pure epa prescription vascepa. You can do it. We can do this. At fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. Whoo well, we were just talking about the protests out in sacramento that are going on right now. Last week in washington around the country, it was the march for our lives. There was the womens march last year. You go back a couple years, there were all those tea party marches, those protests. Sometimes it can feel like were living in an era of protests. Guess what, there are some numbers out there that back that up. Brandnew, nbc wall street journal survey on activism and protests in america right now. How about this for a question. We said is there something that upsets right now in america enough to carry a protest sign to go out there and join crowds. Look at there, 57 of americans say yeah. Sign me up. Im ready to go protest. There is a partisan split on there. Democrats and republicans are both ready to protest. Democrats though right now are more ready. 69 of democrats say ready to hit the streets. Republicans still its a small majority but its a majority at 50 saying yes, 48 saying no. Whats firing up democrats and republicans . Because theyre not going to be protesting for the same reasons. We gave them a menu of choices. Could it be this cause or that cause. A whole bunch of options. Here are the most common answers for each party. These are interesting. For republicans, they would be ready to protest for protecting borders and limiting immigration. That was their top choice. Also maintaining the right to purchase firearms. Those are the two top issues republicans say would get them protesting for democrats increasing racial equality and addressing climate change, racial equality and climate change. Those are the most animating issues on both sides of the divide right now. A couple other things we found in the poll that are interesting. Want to point out to you, theres a question of this is the story of our times, the dem xwraf if i cans of this country are changing fast. That increasing diversity, how do the two parties feel . Let me read the wording. Its complicated. We asked do you agree or not, are you comfortable or not with this. I feel comfortable with these changes in our society because what makes the Country Special is taking the very best from people of different experiences and backgrounds and creating a country that thrives in its diversity. 74 of democrats say they agree with that statement. 29 of republicans. The statement that republicans were more likely to agree with is that i feel uneasy with these changes because what makes the Country Special is our uniquely american experience, speaking english and a shared background that brings us all together. That was more resonant with republicans. A big split there. That is i thought we had one after that but we didnt. You get a real sense both sides of the aisle right now are very, very animated in this moment for Different Reasons you. Some interesting findings there from our new nbc news wall street journal poll. Up next, the white house playing defense over the latest cabinet shakeup. David shulkin is firing back at the Trump Administration. Not everyones on board with the president s new pick. Youre watching hardball. Parodontax, the toothpaste that helps prevent bleeding gums. If you spit blood when you brush or floss you may have gum problems and could be on the journey to much worse. Help stop the journey of gum disease. Try parodontax toothpaste. I we worked with pg eof to save energy because wenie. Wanted to help the school. They would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didnt cut off the light. The teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. So they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. We actually saved 50,000. And thats just one school, two semesters, three girls. Together, were building a better california. Welcome back to hardball. Outgoing Veterans Affairs secretary David Shulkin is leaving the Trump Administration but not going quietly. Shulkin accusing the Trump Administration in its political appointees within the va of conspiring against him and his management with the goal of privatizing the va. Shulkin also told chris hayes he spoke with President Trump just hours before he was fired. When is the last time you spoke to him . I spoke to the president yesterday. What was that conversation like . We spoke about the progress that i was making, what i needed to do from a policy perspective to make sure that we were fixing the issues in va. Wait, thats before you were fired . Thats correct. You spoke to him. He made no mention of the fact that he was about to terminate you . Thats correct. And then you found out via tweet . Right before that, the chief of staff kelly gave me a call which i appreciated, gave me a headsup. And so but that was much after the phone call. White house staff are now playing catchup in defending shulkins would be successor, Ronny Jackson after being blind sided by trumps announcement. They planned to announce wednesday that ed leave the administration and be replaced by robert wile at the Defense Department until a nominee was found but trump preempted the plan when he tweeted he intended to nominate jackson. Michelle goldberg is a columnist for the New York Times, Noelle Nikpour a republican strategist and manically know from news day. Not surprisingly, i dont have a good idea of what happened here and why it happened. Theres a couple of theorys and suggestions out there. Shulkin saying look, this was about a scheme to privatize the va. You had this scathing inspector generals report sitting out there about shulkin and the cost of his trip to europe with his wife. Youve got that. Youve got trumps tendency to make sporadic decisions. Was this more about shulkin or more about trump wanting jackson . Its hard to discern what its actually about. We have a sense the white house aides are not ready to answer all the questions about Ronny Jackson and his qualifications. Hes a doctor and active duty member of the armed forces. What qualifies him to run a troubled and large agency. Where does he stand on privatizing health care for veterans. It does seem, michelle, in some ways this is consistent with what we know about trump and his style. In other ways putting it somebody like jackson forward seems like the sole qualification weve seen is what he did on television. Trump also wanted to hire his pilot to head the faa. This is somebody who has kind of contempt for governing experience, makes snap decisions and really could care less about qualifications. I think one of the stories so far has been that the federal government has morse or less sort of held together despite having this chaotic incompetent team an the top. And were going to see over the coming years the corruption and incompetence trickle down in a way that starts to affect peoples lives because although Ronny Jackson is kind of universally beloved by people in the white house, it is crazy to move somebody from managing a team of dozens to managing the second Biggest Agency in the u. S. Government. Its just madness. Do you think republicans he has to get confirmed by the is that the. Republicans have the votes there. Do you think theyll all be on board with this. Probably so if the president wants him, probably so. They have recently become friends. We dont know what kind of private conversations that trump and jackson have had. Because i can tell you one thing, i do not there that trump would have appointed this if jackson and he did not speak of this, if he didnt Say Something about the va. I dont think it blind sided jackson. I think they said theyve been close in recent times. That theyve been speaking so i think what happened is i think that he is has discussed something with jackson. I think jackson gave him a few ideas about the va and what he would do. I bet five bucks that can what ended up happening is he thought you know what . This guy could touch around the va and hes there. I bet a thousand dollars that trump does not that they have not had substantive policy conversations about what should happen at the va should it be privatized . How should it be reorganized. To the depths of my soul im positive that is not what went on there. It does feel like theres asymmetry and the Trump Campaign for president. The trump message in 2016 was the ones who you think are supposed to have all these important positions screwed the country up. Let me the total outsider come in. It was also i will hire the best people, not a bunch of kind of crohnies and fox news. Did it mean the best credentialed people or the people i in my gut think are the best. The people he in his gut are the people he thinks look good on television. Im going to push back on that. The reason why is because he won this campaign and beat out 16 people that were very qualified. He beat out bush, he beat out a ted cruz, marco rubio. Look at the whole line of people he beat out. Did he this really by putting his own motley crue together. Kellyanne conway, look how many times he changed people on his campaign over and over and over again. Really donald trump had the credit for the winning Team Strategy to get where he was. So he feels like that he can have a strategy for the white house. The fact that he managed to eke his way out to a freak minority victory does not mean this kind of crazy improvizational thing he does is a way to run the government. Up next, it turns out David Shulkin has a lot in common with some of the other people who have left the Trump Administration next. Youre watching hardball. Rk. Starting with advanced manufacturing that brings big ideas to life. And cuttingedge Transportation Development to connect those ideas to the world. Along with urban redevelopment projects worthy of the worlds top talent. All across new york state, were building the new new york. To grow your business with us in new york state visit esd. Ny. Gov. Programming noit this sunday Chris Matthews will have a look at one of the most influential people on the planet. Pope francis. Eahes a spiritual leader of more than a billion catholics not to mention his 40 million twitter followers. [ speaking Foreign Language ] pope francis is more than a religious leader. Had o the holy father is not just another guy with an opinion. Hes an advocate and an activist. Offering a strong voice on climate change. [ speaking Foreign Language ] i think pope francis honestly has revolutionized the church. The msnbc special headliners pope francis, this sunday 9 00 p. M. Eastern. Well be right back with the hardball roundtable. Ama. From scandalous romance, to ridiculous plot twists. gasping son . Dad we also know you can avoid drama by getting an annual checkup. So were partnering with cigna to remind you to go see a real doctor. Go, know, and take control of your health. It could save your life. Doctor poses dad cigna. Together, all the way. Dad if his denture can cope with. A steak. Luckily for him, he uses super poligrip. It helps give him 65 more chewing power. Leaving brad to dig in and enjoy. Super poligrip. Welcome back to hardball. Va secretary David Shulkin isnt the only person President Trump has fired without telling them to their face. Former fbi director james comey learned of his ouster while at an event in los angeles according to the New York Times. Television screens in the background began flashing the news in response to the reports, mr. Comey laughed saying he thought it was a fairly funny prank. Nbc news also reports trump was angry copy used a government plane to return home to washington. Trump announced the departure of Reince Priebus via a tweet from air force one. Former secretary of state Rex Tillerson also reportedly learned he was fired following a tweet from the president that came hours after returning from an overseas trip. We are back with the hardball roundtable and emily, everybody remembers the boardroom scene at the end of every episode of the apprentice. He walks in, stares straight across the table at that weeks victim and says youre fired. When it comes to his own administration, folks arent hearing this from him. Its not even that he cant fire them to their faces, he cant in a phone call. My First Impression is that he really wants to be liked and doesnt want to be the bad guy and doesnt want to do the dirty work. That doesnt make sense. No one will like you if you fire them in a tweet. This gets a ton of ink and a ton of air time. The vast number of exits is going to get a lot of publicity. This makes it more dramatic. He likes chaos. Hes saying it to millions of people. First of all, hes a fraud. Reality tv is not real and people who pride themselves on not believing the liberal media should realize they should not believe reality television. So donald trump is incredibly nonconfrontational in person. If youve had to fire someone, its unpleasant. Hell never do something unpleasant when he can have somebody else do it for him. This is annive decent way to treat people. Youve got realize Donald Trumps background, a lot of people, i used to work for rudy guiliani. He was a big supporter of rudy guiliani. The way that the rumor has it the way that he did real estate negotiations is he would go in kind of just throw something out there and then basically turn around and walk out and leave everything in shambles for the rest of everybody to pick up. Thats his style. His style. Seems like what he does on twitter. Thats his style is to be kellyanne conway, ill quote her. Hes a disruptor. She said it. I mean, it was over and over and over repeated rhetoric but thats the truth. He is a disruptor. If youve noticed were all pawns in the game anyway because every time theres something that comes out, he will tweet something and the entire news story will change around what he has tweeted out. I have been booked for segments after segments on something we have topics ready to go and everyone goes wait a minute, he just tweeted. Were talking about it right now. There we go. Bigger picture here, too, the firing of shulkin and tillerson, on and on. It seems like this is going to continue. If you can take a step back, is there any constancy besides trump himself within the administration or is slowly a new and Different Administration emerging here . It is a turning point, a turnover kind of turning point. I think of it as a Spring Cleaning. Hes in Spring Cleaning mode even though hes technically in maralago mode right now. He is ready for a clean slate and sees it would be better to do it all at once. These three have the easiest job in the world. They tell me something i dont know. Youre watching hardball. Applebees to go. Order online and get 10 off 30. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. My secret visitors. Hallucinations and delusions. The unknown parts of living with parkinsons. What plots they unfold, but only in my mind. Over 50 of people with parkinsons will experience hallucinations or delusions during the course of their disease. If your loved one is experiencing these symptoms, talk to your parkinsons specialist. There are Treatment Options that can help. My visitors should be the ones i want to see. You or joints. Something for your heart. There are Treatment Options that can help. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brainhealth supplement in drug stores nationwide. Prevagen. The name to remember. Were back with the hardball roundtable. Michelle, tell me something i dont know. A woman in texas has just been sentenced to five years for voting when she was on parole and she didnt realize that she wasnt able to vote. And her ballot was caught before it even went through. Shes now going to prison for five years after just serving a threeyear sentence for tax fraud and is now going to be separated from her children again. Noel. I have a prediction. My prediction is that Cynthia Nixon will totally beat out cuomo in the primary. Were going to see a woman. Thats the republican dream in new york state, isnt it. Yes. How do you win an election . Well see. Sometimes be careful what you wish for. Emily. News day is all over the coverage of the federal corruption trial and a lot of big names have come up. One is a Nassau County chairman but also trumps nominee to be ambassador to turks and cake yoes. You can expect the allegation he got a 25,000 discount for a wedding for his daughter made by a restaurateur who pleaded guilty to bribing other officials. He denied any wrongdoing and theres no evidence that he got anything in exchange. That might bungle his confirmation process a little bit. Political corruption in new york. Thank you. That is hardball for now. Thanks for being with us. Chris matthews will be back monday and all in with chris hayes starts right now. Tonight on all in. Were going to end the government corruption and were going to drain the swamp in washington, d. C. New allegations of corruption from the swamp of Donald Trumps creation. Youre right about the swamp. Say it again. Tonight, what looks like the most egregious abuse to date from a member of trumps cabinet. Plus, why Robert Muellers investigators detained a mystery trump ally at an airport this week. New reporting on the drinking games inside the white house personnel office. Examining the trump fence. In thing 1 thing 2. Its not a fence. Its a wall. As