Prospect of jeb bush staring him down, and mitts own family. He didnt want to spend the next year and a half slogging through hell. Now comes a new poll of likely Iowa Republican caucusgoers showing that jeb bush is going practically nowhere out there with that crowd. This crowd that has picked people like Mike Huckabee and most recently Rick Santorum to be their champion. What gives . If the money people seem bent on jeb, where is the party going to go to find a leader that can unite and excited enough to give Hillary Clinton a fight . John is a republican strategist, and robert gibbs is the former White House Press secretary, and an msnbc contributor. As i mentioned, a new poll from the Des Moines Register just out and Bloomberg Politics shows jeb bush has ground to look up with the conservative grassroots. Look at this poll. Shows the lead of the pack in iowa is the new kid on the block, wisconsin Governor Scott walker, followed by rand paul and Mike Huckabee, no surprise there. Jeb bush is fifth with 9 . The guy who everybody calls the frontrunner, fifth out there. He also lags behind on favorability compared to other potential candidates. Scott walker has a net favorable. That means favorable over unfavorable of 48 , meaning 60 of voters have a favorable view on him. Only 12 have a favorable view of, well, the others, anyway, unfavorable view, rather. Rand paul, Mike Huckabee, rick perry and others all have high net favorables among likely iowa caucusgoers, they all look good out there. Jeb bush, his net favorability is low one digit, three. So for Chris Christie its even worse. Negative. Hes the only big negative out there. 18. John, why dont they like christie out in iowa among your party . First of all, you do have to take some of this in perspective. Everyone was talking about Michele Bachmann when she won the ames straw poll only to finish last in the iowa caucuses. With that said, iowa is a conservative state. Chris christie is seen as relatively moderate, jeb bush is relatively moderate. The real problem for this in this poll is not where they are in the mix. Its that they have high unfavorables. They have to change a lot of minds which is difficult to do especially because theyre not the type thats all of a sudden going to move toward the right. I think they have some problems. Issues like common core, immigration. Their positions are just not going to play with mainstream republicans in iowa. What im stunned with is how much knowledge they have of these guys. I mean, these are regular voters, guys. Theyre not people watching television all night long. They dont real all the papers all day long. They seem to know all the candidates. They have a personal opinion of all the candidates already two years out. Theyve had to judge that Chris Christie is not their guy. But they really like this new guy, scott walker whos the governor of wisconsin. And they know all about him, enough to say hes a 48 net plus. Thats a hell of a lot of information, robert . Well, i think, one, iowans take their role exceedingly seriously. Yeah. A lot of these none of these guys are going to seal the deal with any caucusgoer until they literally have the chance to meet them five or six times. Secondly, caucusgoers are the highest interest primary voter, so if youre going to participate in a primary, thats one thing. If youre going to participate in a caucus which is a different level of commitment, its that probably top 10 or 20 of people that would normally participate in a primary. Heavy information voters. People that have a lot of information and are following these guys well before they ever come to iowa to play president. It is impressive that people know this much. Anyway, this weekend scott walker sounded very confident. Ive always thought he was a sleeper but i wasnt that sure. Lets watch him. 99 chance youll run . Oh, i dont know that id take the odds. I just would tell you one thing, after three elections for governor in four years in a state that hasnt gone republican since 1984 for president , i wouldnt bet against any on anything. He also took a jab at both Hillary Clinton and by implication jeb bush. Lets watch. People want new, fresh leadership with big, bold ideas, and the courage to act on it. If were going to take on a name from the past, which is likely to be former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, i think for the party we need a name from the future. Well, there you go. They got rid of mitt, now this is an age war. This is logans run here, robert. Get rid of the old guys. The great thing about that bank shot was the explicit criticism of the exsecretary of state and the implicit criticism of the jeb. Jeb bush. So i think its way premature to call anybody the frontrunner. I think you have tiers of candidates and i think clearly in the top tier of candidates in iowa, scott walker, probably jeb bush, and to some degree a social conservative in that poll probably Mike Huckabee. Yeah. And truth is, what puts jeb bush in the top tier isnt his standing in iowa as much as its his standing writ large and his ability to raise probably the 100 million its going to take to win this primary. Have you been out talking to enough people to know whether people are just in a mood, like, most people who vote want to pick the next president , but early going they want to send a message, too. Do you get a sense this might be one of the year the democrats had it a long time ago with mcgovern. It felt good for the people on the left. They felt great being for mcgovern. He was antiwar, an intellectual, a war hero but also a professor. He was perfect for the democratic left. Do you think your party might be on to a year thats just a little bit wackier than most years . Theyre just going to pick somebody like goldwater or mcgovern and say we dont give a damn about the close next coming next november . Were going to say what we really feel. Maybe one of these other guys, maybe ted cruz, maybe ben carson, maybe rand paul. Is it that wild a year . Can you tell if thats out there . Heres the problem. The Republican Party isnt a single entity anymore. Its not homogeneous anymore. Its broken into libertarians, tea party, social conservatives, establishment. Working class. You know, antiterrorism. Theyre all different types of republicans so its splintered. The biggest difference youre going to see this time in is some sense weve become the democrats. We dont have i agree. Its the other way, too. Its working the other side. We get a lot of people out there, but i will say this, i think theyre all quality candidates and the other thing to watch for this year, no one is going to win iowa with 30 of the vote. Someone is going to win it with 20 of the vote. Thats whats going to happen in state after state. Youre going to see five or six candidates all the way to the end. Really . They can afford it . The way its set up this time with a lot of states proportional, you dont have to play statewide. It sounds like your party in 08. Well, it is, and the truth is johns absolutely right. Usually democrats have these Big Personality and issuedriven primaries with 10 or 12 people and you dont know whats going to happen. Republicans are an establishment. They pick the guy that didnt win the nomination last time. Those roles are completely reversed this time. People in the race like sharpton played in the Democratic Party a couple of those times. You had the most interesting guy in the debate. Youre not going to win but youre definitely going to be the best show. I just wonder, you wont answer my question, could this be a wacko year . We dont care whos going to win against hillary. Were running a guy we believe in, like a cruz, a ben carson or rand paul. I will say this. The primary thing is voters are not going to say in the republican primaries who is the best november candidate. They dont care about that. Thats what im asking. Does the candidate represent their views thats the way the democrats used to be. I will tell you, i think we have credible candidates so you can get away with it this year. You can pick any of these well i think theyll be competitive. You think ted cruz would be competitive with Hillary Clinton . I absolutely do. S that reminds me of the old days on the left. Let me ask you about the democrats. I didnt intend to ask about it. I dont see any rebellion against Hillary Clinton yet. Of any significance. I mean, rebellion. No, i dont think so. Theyre open to her. I think she has specific challenges that are apart from who the republicans nominate. I think first and foremost she has to articulate exactly why she wants to run. And what shed do as president in a compelling way. Secondly, i think whats going to interesting to watch, the Obama Campaign felt this in 2011 and 2012, without contested caucuses and primaries its not as easy to get people excited as it is if youre going through that process of every two weeks having this thing. So theres a lot that i still think theres a lot she has to do. I think this race is going to be super close in november of 2016. In november. In november. I dont think theres any doubt about that. I think quite frankly youve seen Reince Priebus say this and others. I think republicans i dont think theyre going to pick iowa, theyre not going to look at it and think, we have to pick the best person in november. By the time we get into the fall, theres no doubt this is not going to be just to send a message election. If Hillary Clinton has Elizabeth Warren get in the race, does Hillary Clinton shes not going to get in. Lets say hypothetically she would. Biden has a better chance of getting in. Who wins iowa between Elizabeth Warren shed make the most noise. Which is the biggest nightmare Hillary Clinton has. I wouldnt necessarily bet anyway, look. I disagree. I dont think Hillary Clinton should go for a close election. I know youre not saying that. I think she should go for a 54 victory because she could bring the house in, bring the senate in and really rule this country. This country needs somebody to get control of it. I dont want another split down the middle. And i think im more conservative. So i would think she should go more to the center. People who say, follow elizabeth off to the left. I say theres a way not to get 55 . Go to the hard left. Anyway, were already out of time. God youre really good at this. Youre, of course, always brilliant. You played a great game in the super bowl. Did you like these receptions . Absolutely i didnt think you had it in you, but wow. The plug he got during the super bowl was better than any of the ads people paid millions and millions for. I bet viewership triples tonight. Thank you, al michaels. Robert gibbs, it was a thrill to be at the stadium and watching all this. Coming up, Chris Christie steps in a minefield over vaccines. The new jersey governor says there needs to be balance, parents need a choice whether to vaccinate their kids. Science, of course, says otherwise. Whats christie up to . I think he was playing to the group we were talking to out in iowa. President obamas budget out there today as a bold progressive statement. He wants to raise taxes on the rich and spend money to put people to work. Good stuff. Corporate tax reform, tax reform, infrastructure. Everything ive been believing in. I dont think it came from me, but its certainly what i think is right. It shows me he wants to lead with swagger and dare the republicans to say no to a really good centrist idea. If you watched the super bowl last night, you heard plenty of talk about this guy, Chris Matthews. The seahawks Chris Matthews. Finally, let me finish with why i think the democrats need to hold their Convention Next year, national convention, in philadelphia. And this is hardball. The place for politics. Dish issues . Cascade platinum powers through your toughest messes better than the competition the first time. Cascade. Now thats clean. Well, new england is celebrating its super bowl win and the patriots are expected to arrive in home in bostons Logan Airport in the next few minutes but theyre arriving home in the midst of a huge winter storm, the second in a week. Nbcs Miguel Almaguer is in boston and joins us with the latest. Will they be allowed to get off the plane . Reporter they will if theyre wearing jackets. The temperatures are going to plummet over the next 24 hours. I should point out boston has had some 14 hours of steady snow here and also those whipping winds were actually on boylston street, this is the parade route. This is a problem, the reason why the parade has been delayed until wednesday. The street is a mess. There are mounds and piles of snow five, six feet high in this area. And its only getting worse. Were going to see steady snow over the next few hours and then its going to turn to bitterly cold temperatures. Roads across this region are a mess. In new york, there were several spinouts, at least two people were killed on the roadways. The conditions here only getting worse. As it gets colder. But the good news is the snow will stop overnight. Its just going to be those frigid temperatures theyre going to have to deal with. School has been canceled tomorrow as well as, of course, as you know, the parade has been pushed back until wednesday. When the patriots do make their way out here, its certainly going to be cold, but probably not snowing, chris. Great story. Boston is strong, miguel. You know that. Anyway, Miguel Almaguer, thank you, up in boston, for that report. Well be right back. Welcome back to hardball. New jersey governor Chris Christie today opened a pandoras box over Public Health suggesting at a press conference in london today parents should have more of a choice when it comes to vaccinating their kids from Infectious Diseases like measles. Do you think americans should vaccinate their kids . Is the measles vaccine safe . All i can say is we vaccinate ours, so, you know, thats the best expression i can give you my opinion. Its much more important, i think, when you think as a parent, than what you think as a public official. And thats what we do. But i also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well. So thats the balance that the government has to decide. It depends on what the vaccine is, what the disease type is, and all the rest. And so i didnt say im leaving people the option. What im saying is you have to have that balance in considering parental concerns because no parent, no parent cares about anything more than they care about protecting their own childs health. Theres a baseball player trying to tag every base at once. Anyway, his statement comes as the country here, our country is going through the worst Measles Outbreak in two decades. A disease many thought had been eliminated just 15 years ago. In 2014, the number of reported cases of measles was tripled out of previous years according to the centers for disease control, with 644 cases against 27 cases. That spike is attributed to the growing antivaccination movement in this country. Those who believe there are dangers associated with childhood vaccinations since the despite the Scientific Evidence thereto is not. President obama is far less ambiguous about the subject when he was asked about it over the weekend. The science is, you know, pretty indisputable. We looked at this again and again. There is every reason to get vaccinated. There arent reasons to not get vaccinated. Are you telling parents you should get your kids vaccinated . You should get your kids vaccinated. Christies statement, the governor thinks vaccines are an important Public Health theres no question kids should be vaccinated. Joining me, howard dean, a medical doctor, of course, and usa todays susan. Dr. Dean, i have to tell you, i dont understand what game christie is playing there. He seemed to be saying everything at once. The only reason i can think hes playing that game is for trying to reach the republican hard right or somebody out there on the yahoo regions that doesnt like science. I dont know what hes up to. What do you think hes up to is. I think hes pandering. This is the second time for him on Public Health. In general, politicians shouldnt talk about something they dont know anything about. He clearly doesnt know anything about Public Health. He tried to quarantine some lady who came back from liberia who did not need to be quarantined, and she unfortunately, he stuck her in a tent outside a hospital in new jersey and she finally got to go up to got to go up to maine which is where she lived, and the governor up there carried on about it. You know, theres a Science Associated with medicine, and people probably ought to listen to what it is before they come to these kinds of conclusions especially people who are running for president. Susan, i didnt understand i listened closely. I read what he said before. He was asked about the measles epidemic then he ended up saying we ought to have Parental Choice of some kind, and then his office put back, well, in cases of measles, they should be vaccinated which is what he was asked about. So what game is he playing . Well, you know, if hes i think youre. Im sorry, go ahead, susan. Susan first. Lets look at the politics of this. I dont think this makes much sense for governor christie because in the first place if hes pandering the way dr. Dean says and theres a perception of that, thats quite at odds with the kind of truth tellers, ill stand up and tell you like it is image he has. And if hes pandering, hes pandering to voters who are not really his voters. The voters who are alarmed about vaccinations and likely to disbelieve that theyre the right things to do for their kids and they home school their kids, this is not the christie consolation voters. Those are voters who will go to somebody like Mike Huckabee or rand paul. Another perspective republican candidate weighed in on the vaccination debate today suggesting vaccinations can cause mental problems. Heres senator rand paul on cnbc earlier today. Earlier this evening. Ive heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines. Im not arguing vaccines are a bad idea. I think theyre a good thing, but i think the parents should have some input. The state doesnt own your children. Okay. Parents own the children. It is an issue of freedom. Dr. Dean, governor dean, that seems like a pretty looseygoosey case of causality here. If you heard what he said there, they ended up having problems after they were vaccinated. Well, people have problems after they, you know, do everything. Go to new jersey for the weekend. I dont know. Everything happens after Something Else happens. This causality argument i think is pretty weakly explained there. He didnt explain how vaccination leads to autism or anything else. Well, first of all, it doesnt lead to autism, and that was grossly discredited. I mean, that never should have been put out in the press 15, 20 years ago when it happened. Second of all, i actually believe this disqualifies rand paul from becoming president of the united states. If youre a physician and you say what he just said, then you are clearly willing to override any set of facts that you ought to know. Its one thing for christie to blunder his way through this and try to pander. For rand paul to deny his entire education as a physician, i assume he went to a good medical school and knows something about medicine. That is truly appalling. And he a guy like that should never be let near the white house. Well, he may not be. Anyway, in 2009, a Campaign Letter to governor christie, himself, appeared to suggest a link between vaccinations and autism in children. I have met families affected by this is so much part of home schooling, all this sort of, you know, get out of the government, get the government out of the way, the governments bad. Anything the government does is bad. And its like this so, chris back to you then back to susan. Go ahead, governor. Okay. Just very quickly, this is look, just so i dont want to be unfair to parents who are legitimately worried and anxious. Theyre not legitimately, but theyre anxious and worried and that matters. But the issue is this. There are 310 Million People in this country. A fairly significant number of them are either very small, that is too young to be vaccinated and, therefore, at risk, or immunocompromised. Before vaccines we used to lose almost a thousand kids to measles. This is not something you can just choose for your own kids. This affects every kid in your school that your kid goes to, this affects a great many people besides you. And, of course, that goes to real consequences of just having this debate because it feeds the concerns of parents who maybe have kids at the age that they should be getting vaccinated to worry about whether its the right thing to do it. It makes them, perhaps, not vaccinate air kids. That affects, as governor dean said, other families who for whatever reason their kids havent been vaccinated. Thats why weve seen the numbers in the measles epidemic across this country. This is not really just an academic debate that politicians are having. It seems irresponsible in the absence of being able to cite actual medical evidence that shows what theyre saying has some validity. 2011 study by the cdc, the centers for disease control, found out 40 of American Parents delayed or refuse the some vaccinations for their children. The data from Pew Research Shows a generational shift on childhood vaccinations. Those over the age of 65 believe vaccination should be required and 20 said parents should decide. Young adults 18 to 29 years old, 59 said evacuations should be required. 40 say let parents decide. When we were growing up, the debates of fluoridation of water. It save teeth, it was decided to have fluoride in the water. We have better teeth than other countries do. We know that. The word went out on the hard right wing, oh, this is a communist plot that euthanizes or makes us weak or stupid or whatever the plan was. It was supposed to do something to weaken us and got all over out there on the right wing. The whispers, you know what fluoride does to you. I dont know. Whatever. In fairness, its not just the right, theres also some people on the left who believe this often and sort of higher income groups that this sort of an entitlement not to do this. There are a lot of things we eat that are not good for us. A lot of antibiotics in meat we shouldnt have. Hormones injected into chickens and meat and things like that. I understand why people are worried about this stuff. But i think part of it, chris, is i grew up when i mean, i knew people who had had polio who were limping around, who were in wheelchairs as a result of that. My stepgrandfather had polio and limped for his entire adult life. So i think for our age, weve seen what happens when you dont have vaccines. I think thats something the 18 to 29yearolds, you cited in the poll, have never seen. They dont understand what the real danger to the public is by not getting vaccinated. And a lot of the young people today are not so prochoice because they dont know what it was like to live in an environment where you didnt have a choice. And if we go in this direction on vaccinations, maybe well once again have a situation where people see the consequences of having these diseases come back. Yeah. I hope not. I hope thats not the only corrective we have at hand. Thank you, doctor and governor dean for joining us. Great to have your expertise. I mean that. Susan page as always. Up next, had the Seattle Seahawks won last nights super bowl, a guy named Chris Matthews might have been the mvp. Thats a very good bet. Four interceptions. Big ones. He has a great name but an even better story personally. Were going to tell you the story of the other Chris Matthews, maybe the better one. This is hardball. Im not that nice. The other one. This is hardball. The place for politics. Welcome back to hardball. More than 114 Million Viewers watched the new England Patriots take home the win in super bowl xlix according to nbc. Thats the largest audience, catch this, for anything in television history. It was a close game, of course, but there was one player with the Seattle Seahawks with a scarily familiar name, at least to me. His name, Chris Matthews, of course. Listen to this. You know, we were talking about Chris Matthews. Darrell bevell, the offensive coordinator nicknamed him hardball for Chris Matthews of msnbc whos here at the game today. And this Chris Matthews, the seahawks Chris Matthews said i cant believe it, every time i wikipedia myself it keeps coming up with the other side. All right. Here we go. A little hardball with Chris Matthews, down the field, this is the one. Oh, my god. What a catch. Wow. Anyway, despite the seahawks, matthews had a great night scoring a touchdown before halftime. He had plenty of fans on social media throughout the game. The chrismatthews has been tweeted out thousands of times since last night. Whats even more amazing is this other Chris Matthews back story. This time last year, the 25yearold was playing for the Canadian Football League and working two jobs in the offseason. One as a Security Guard and another at a footlocker. Anyway, he got the call from the seahawks in february to try out and his response at first, according to sports illustrated, was i dont get out of work until 9 00 p. M. , i dont know if i can make it. A few minutes later matthews agent called saying, are you out of your mind . He made the flight but also made the seahawks practice squad. He was bumped up to the practice squad this past december. Not only two months later hes scoring a touchdown in the super bowl. Thats a cinderella story. Up next, president obamas still got that swagger. He laid out the priority for this year. Big spending on infrastructure and a tax hike on the wealthy to pay for it. Hes daring the republicans to say no to the deal. Youre watching hardball. Hardball. The place for politics. The conference call. The ultimate arena for business. Hour after hour of diving deep, touching base, and putting ducks in rows. The only problem with Conference Calls eventually they have to end. Unless you have the comcast business voiceedge mobile app. It lets you switch seamlessly from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. Ive never felt so alive. Get the future of phone and the phones are free. Comcast business. Built for business. The economy is doing better, but you laid out a bunch of proposals that you know cannot get through this congress that is run by republicans now. Isnt that kind of counterproductive . No, i disagree with that. I think republicans that believe that we should be building our infrastructure, the question is how do we pay for it . Thats a negotiation that we should have. Youre offering tax hikes for the healthy. Thats something they couldnt get through the congress when it was run by democrats. Savannah, my job is to present the right ideas, and if the republicans think theyve got a better idea, they should present them. But my job is not to trim my sails and not tell the American People what were doing. Welcome back to hardball. Today president obama revealed his Budget Proposal and mirrors the goals he laid out in his state of the union. Unabashedly liberal. While its chance of getting through a Republicancontrolled Congress are slim to none, it sets the tone for the kinds of fights to come. Revenue from taxes on the rich and corporations and uses that money for infrastructure projects. And spends money on proposals like Free Community college. We lay out the challenge. The spending blueprint Jonathan Allen joins me now. Along with huffington posts Sabrina Siddiqui and mother jones david corn. Sabrina, first of all, you started with this piece. It seems to me that you go where the money is and you go where there might be a chance for a deal. Now, republicans have always believed in highways. They love it. Construction jobs. Companies make money off that. Not just workers but businesses. They love bringing home the bacon. Were going to get the road fixed in your neighborhood, get the bridge fixed, sewers paid for. All kinds water projects. All that stuff has always been immensely popular with republican members of congress and Corporate Tax reform of some kind to lower the rates. Right. Thats the door opener, two doors opening here. The president is daring republicans to basically vote against taxing corporations that keep profits overseas and taking that money and using it for infrastructure. And what you see today is a twisting in the business community, they want the infrastructure projects. They want the money spent on that. They obviously dont want the taxes. Even within the business community, tech companies, pharmaceutical companies, they get hit hard by this. Other Companies Make roads, bridges, work on the waterways and want to see this spending. Hes trying to divide republicans and peel some of them off and bring them to democratic constituencies doing the same thing by offering more money for the Defense Department in exchange for domestic programs. Sabrina, the question to you is, wheres the politics in this . I know where the parties stand. Join go for the middle, is the middle more concerned about income inequality right now . Are they more concerned about protecting the rich so they can invest more . I think the reality is which way . Theres an answer, theres a question here. Which one is it . Wheres the politics now . Is it fighting the problem of income inequality or the old thing of softening the bed of the rich . By the income inequality. I think even republicans, youve heard them acknowledge a lot more in recent months the need to address americans who feel left out of this economic recovery. As positive news abounds about the obama administrations economic progress, they have to find a new area to go after and thats those americans who arent actually feeling the benefits. One of the things that republicans face in terms of a challenge is we finally got them to admit that the rich are getting richer. The problem is the proposals to actually dress that issue are ones that face deep divisions within their party. Or pose deep divisions. What are they for . There are some things they are for. Now paul ryan did say he would be open to extending, for example, the earned income tax credit. Thats a lowwage subsidy to childless adults. They also are interested in reforming the Corporate Tax code in some way. Its worth noting that the idea of taking money from overseas profits and putting that into spending toward infrastructure is something that dave kemp, former chair of the Ways Means Committee also proposed at one point in time. You have to remember there are in the Republican Coalition the tea partyers who really dont want any new spending. They dont want whether its highways, they dont care. They get voted out of office. They say they dont care. And if it comes from obama, they really dont care for this. The old gop which used to have some the congress used to have maybe some mayors or governors who had become senators who liked all the shovelready projects that we talked about, particularly in states like pennsylvania and midwestern states like michigan and ohio. Theyre going to be up against their right flank. Particularly if it comes with, you know, attached to tax hikes. Paul ryans already out there talking about envy economics. Any time you talk about taxing the rich, the republicans start to run away. No matter what its for. Well, thats why because they have to pay the piper. Whos paying for the campaigns . Anyway, Republican Congress man paul ryan the Koch Brothers like that. The chairman of the Ways Means Committee which he is now challenged the president s plan on meet the press yesterday. Lets watch. What i think the president is trying to do here is to, again, exploit envy economics. This topdown redistribution doesnt work. Weve been doing it for six years. Look, it may make for good politics. It doesnt make for good economic growth. Okay. Whos smart enough to tell me if were getting anything done here or if were going to be talking about infrastructure for the next 20 years or actually fix this country . Anybody who gets to travel overseas, whether you go to switzerland, germany i was there last year, or china i was there this year with my wife. Shes in the hotel business. She brings me along. What a deal for you. You see the world passing us. America used to be the ones that had the railroad across the continue innocent. Airports. And you get the best airport in johannesburg or anywhere in china. Were not going to catch up under the obama administration. As dave was talking about, there are too many republicans in congress who oppose giving him any of those larger whats he willing to put on the table . Whats the president willing to cut to pay for infrastructure . Doesnt he have to put up something on the table is. Thats what remains to be seen, what he might be willing to offer them. I think that we have to also see whether now that they have control of both changes of congress they feel they have more leverage in showdowns over the death ceiling, funding the government. Theyre playing games with dhs funding. Its a clash of fundamentals because the things that they want, at least the base of the party, go completely against what obama wants to do. What can he give them . They want low tax cuts and no government. They think Government Spending is the problem. So obama wants to get the infrastructure going, invest in education. Theres a law in this budget, jonathan, for nih spending, medical research. You think people can get behind that . Most republicans dont want any of this. What do you offer up to get them off the dime . I dont know. They might do chain cpi. The Highway Trust Fund is running out of money. Theyre going to have to do something to keep alive just the basic base level. There are a lot of other ideas in this tax plan for overseas. Lets be honest. You might see an increase in the gas tax. The white house is not ruling that out right now. Youve heard republicans on capitol hill start to say they might do that. They have to find some money to keep road projects going. I know this sounds very traditional, but were spending a lot of money we dont have. Debt, debt, debt. Were going to add 6 trillion debt right in this document the president came out with today. 6 trillion. The fact theres a lot of things were not even paying for let alone coughing up a few bucks to pay for something. Were doing it less than we were a few years ago. Thats a great argument. We owe more money than we make. Anyway, the roundtable is staying with us. Up next, what did Mike Huckabee mean when he appeared to be comparing being gay to Drinking Alcohol or using profanity . This is hardball. The place for politics. Man sternly where do you think youre going . Mr. Mucus to work, with you. Its taco tuesday. Man youre not coming. I took mucinex to help get rid of my mucusy congestion. Im good all day. [announcer ] mucinex keeps working. Not 4, not 6 but 12 hours. Lets end this last week we showed you how john mccain went off some code pink protesters who disrupted a Senate Armed ServicesCommittee Hearing and called for Henry Kissinger to be charged with war crimes. Mccain called those protesters low life scum. Over the weekend, he was still fuming. Here he is. I think theyre terrible people. Okay . I think theyre terrible people that would do that to a 91yearold man with a broken shoulder that to physically threaten him. That is that is beyond any normal behavior that i have ever observed. Well, senator mccain called kissinger one of the great statesmen of the 20th century which is by many peoples standards debatable. Well be right back. A lot of republicans particularly in the establishment and those who live on the either left coast or those who live up in the bubbles of new york and washington are convinced that if we dont capitulate on the samesex marriage issue, and if we dont raise the white flag of surrender, and just accept the inevitable, then were going to be losers. I tell you, tim, it is the absolute opposite of that. And if the republicans want to lose guys like me and a whole bunch of still godfearing bible believing people, go ahead and on this issue, go ahead and say abortion doesnt matter either because at that point you lose me, im gone. Im gone. That is a pretty strong statement by Mike Huckabee. He vowed to leave the Republican Party if. Establishment leaders do not hold fast on their opposition to gay marriage. He was asked how he could. You do right about it being opposed to gay marriage, and the biblical backings of being heterosexual. How do you square that religious conviction with being open to having gay friends. People can be my friends that are lifestyles that are not my lifestyle. I dont drink alcohol, but most of my friends do. You know i dont use profanity, but believe me i have a lot of friends who do unless i can get a new version of the scriptures, its not my place to say okay, im just going to evolve. It is like asking someone who is jewish to serve bacon wrapped shrimp in their stores. Jonathan and sabrina and david, david what can you say on this i order shrimp in delis. Again, being gay is a lifestyle, a choice so is it a person that believes in nature not nurture. He says he is not evolving and he is a little bit. Sarcasm in the morning here. We compared homosexuality with pedophilia andneyrophilia. That is what he used to say. Alcoholism, im not a signist, but alcoholism has a genetic component. It gets passed down, but to be serious, he is expressing a view that is not bigoted about policy, per se, but about the people. And he is basically saying theyre making a choice to do something he finds to be reprehensible. Forgetting the science for a minute, that could turn off a lot of voters and certainly in the general election. I dont think we have to decide nature versus nurture. Every time i talk to someone who is day, they tell me very early in theyre they knew their orientation. It wasnt an argue or a stuff call. So im sort of with the nature thing, but it could be something from a very young age he wants to position himself as a values candidate and the socially conservative wing of the party which is already a crowded space. He is trying to get out ahead by generating these head lines. Sabrina, youre new here and i want to try something on you. Could it be that he means it. This is what he thinks . We always assume theyre sometimes they tell you what they think. My previous comments, this is about as far as Mike Huckabee can go when you look at the turning tide of support. He says he will never evolve on the issue. So he has to find a less demeaning way. I think he is trimming his sails. Ill go drinking with a gay person, he is essentially saying, it gets him attention. He gets talk and radio shows welcome but i dont think this is a winning strategy. He won iowa in 2008 but he didnt go anywhere after that. In a primary, i think it is a great strategy and it has a benefit of being what he believes. I think that is him. And one of the thing Social Security there was a recent pole that shows among voters in iowa, the area he is boxes himself in is the top three issues are terrorism, the deficit, and jobs and the economy. Social issues like abortion and gay marriage only 7 said they feel strongly. When we return, i will say why i think philadelphia should be the Convention City in 2016 for a lot of good reasons. Ill give you a good one. Uhoh. The name your price tool. Shes not to be trusted. Kill her. Flo it will save you money the name your price tool isnt witchcraft and i didnt turn your daughter into a rooster. She just looks like that. Burn the witch the name your price tool a dangerously progressive idea. Hey matt, whats up . Im just looking over the company bills. Is that what we pay for internet . Yup. Dsl is about 90 bucks a month. Thats funny, for that price with comcast business, i think you get like 50 megabits. Wow, thats fast. Personally, i prefer a slow internet. There is something about the sweet meditative glow of a loading website. Dont listen to the naysayer. Switch to comcast Business Today and get 50 megabits per second for 89. 95. Comcast business. Built for business. Let me finish tonight with this. This weekend the Washington Post was kind enough to publish my case for the republicans in 2016. When i lived there, my mother took me to see the liberty bell. She wanted her children to know the history of our city which was vital to the beginnings of our country. Theyre in quick walking distance of philadelphias center. When delegates come, they could visit much of the history without leaving market street. A greater reason is what a Philadelphia Convention could do on television. Consider the heart of the current debates. We hold these truths to be selfevident. That all men are created with equal rights. The four knights of the Democratic Convention could highlight these powerful words and phrases of the declaration of independence. A gay couple could talk about Marriage Equality and their right to the pursuit of happiness. A female delegate could make the case for equal pay in the workplace. Democrats could lay claim to not just the flag, but what is stands for. That is hardball for now. All in is right now. Tonight on all in. Chris christie suggesting the government should let parents have a choice about vaccinating his kids. October he had a different opinion about the governments responsibility. Casey hiccocks joins me exclusively tonight. Plus the president goes honey badger with the budget, and the super bowl ads go dark