truth stand in the way of a good story. for republicans, the affordable care act is work, it's a disast disaster, the worst legislation in the history of america. it's even been compared to slavery. it's a narrative that whipped the base into a foaming at the mouth frenzy. the only problem -- the truth. despite a disastrous launch last fall, the president announced yesterday they shattered their original enrollment goals. 8 million people have now signed up. gallup says the number might be closer to 10 million. the mix of young and old is just about right. the law is costing even less than the congressional budget office thought it would. and the rise in health care costs all over the country is slowing. it's pretty clear the law is doing what it was designed to do, help people. as the president said the other day, now it's time to move on. >> they still can't bring themselves to admit that the affordable care act is working. they said nobody would sign up. they were wrong about that. they said it would be unaffordable for the country,er. wrong about that. they were wrong to keep trying to repeal a law that is working. i know every american isn't going to agree with this law, but i think we can agree that it's well passed time to move on. >> the republican party's response? yeah, whatever, man. the wall street journal has a remarkable story. they report that republican leaders are telling house members that persistent criticism of the federal health care law is the best path to victory this fall, regardless of how the implementation evolving ahead of the elections. "the washington post" reports that after intense polling and focus groups, they decided that the i rallying cry is obama care, grrr. >> this system is ritled with errors and december tinned f for -- destined for failure obviously. >> it's hurting the doctors, the patient, the economy, it's going to cost a fortune. >> i don't understand why he can't help himself to just lead and say i have some good news to share with you, america. i would like to take your questions and people wouldn't say why is he such a jerk all the time. >> republicans have their story and they're sticking to it, no matter what truth might stand in their way. david corn is a washington bureau chief and chip, i'm going to go right to you. what is this sort of refusenikism on the part of your party. why not just admit it, the law is working. >> i would disagree with you. i know that's going to shock you and david botha i'm going to disagree with you. but let's say he's got 8 million sign-ups. we know there's going to be probably, as you look at what the consulting groups and health care experts say, 25% of those people probably won't take those premiums. let's be optimistic, 20%. that takes us to 6 million. even though you said the mix is about right, the mix isn't right. they're underperform on the most important demographic, which is the 18 to 34 and those are the ones most likely not to pay their premiums. you need that group if you're going to sustain this long term. the proof is in the pudding. we still don't know what's in the numbers. they're just saying they've got 8 million enrollees and i think it's going to be interesting in the next couple of months to see exactly what comes out with those numbers. >> chip, is that working at town hall? your basically the answer is hey, i finally got health care for the first time in 10, 15 years, is your answer yeah, but. i know you think it's nice to have is health care, but it's really bad. you don't know how bad it is. is that your bumper sticker, chip? >> we still don't know how many uninsured actually signed up. a lot of these number, i heard it's going to be as low as 15%. and a lot of these numbers are people that lost their health insurance coverage because of obama care and then they signed up. >> here we go. >> it's true. you talk about the truth, it is the truth. >> david corn, your witness. >> chip, i know you'll be surprised to know that i do disagree with you. one reason there may be the sign-ups that you want is that your side has been declaring that obama is apocalypse and encouraging people under the age of 35 to sign up. there are more sign-ups than expected, than even projected. obama is outperforming on that regard. and it is true, it really is true, we won't know the full ramifications of obama care, if not for a year, maybe not for two years or three years or four year, but the signs at the moment are far more positive than they were six months ago. and still not you yourself, but others out there are saying this is the worst thing that happened in america. they're citing these apocalyptic consequences that have not happened. and one more point. other than the 8 million people who have signed up, you have tens of millions of people who are getting benefits because they're covered now because of pre-existing conditions. 3 million young adults on their parents plan. 3 million people on medicaid. altogether, if you put in those 8 million, several tens of millions of americans who are benefitting from this. >> chip, the problem is -- let me just ask you this question. what david just siteth cited was tangible facts. you have people getting on medicare who exist. people gettinging health care. what you have are theoretical horrible things that could happen in the future. what would it take for you to say you know, i ood mitt it, this law is working. what would you need to hear? >> a huge expansion of government health care is what just happen pd. >> but people have health care. why is that a bad thing? >> government run health care doesn't run as effective -- >> if you didn't have health care -- hold on a second. >> how do we long term deal with that? i was involved in ten care, a small piece of the pie, a state-run health care system that obamacare, the massachusetts health care plan that obamacare was. they preloaded it. they had lots of savings. everybody got health care, then you know what happened five or six years later? it was eating up every new state dollar in the state of tennessee. and there was only one solution. the democrat governor had to turn away really hundreds of thousands of people to make the budget balance. if you look at this long term, adding everybody in the country to a government-run health care program -- >> chip, i actually want to go back and i want to play you an example of sort of what's going on in your party right now. if somebody stands up in a town hall and says i'm on medicaid, your message of i promise to take that away from you doesn't sound like smart politics. but here is a congressman actually attempting to discuss what the republicans would offer that person instead. this is dennis ross. he is a florida congressman and he's admitting to his constituents this week that there actually is no way that republicans can come up with an alternative. take a listen. '. >> we're going into the next election knowing that we don't have an alternative to say yes, too. the american public, is going to look at that before they look at substance. >> chip, since when in politics can you replace something with nothing and succeed as a political message? >> i think it's a political party in the health care side of things, nothing much is going to move over the next six month bs the law is the law of the land. the republicans need to have a message of what they would do if they want to replace it, if you want to add to it, if they wanted to block grant it to the states, which is what i'm in favor of. you're asking about the town hall questions. the town hall questions that i've been to, and i've been through with a couple of members of congress. it's a lot of small business people, how do i deal with this health care plan? do i add employees or lose employees, but the extra cost is not making me able to hire one or two more. these are small business people, that 50-person range group that's spening literally thousands of dollars on accountants and cpa's and lawyers to tell them what the law means and i think the big winner in obamacare has been cpa's and lawyers because most of the small business people are trying to plow through saying what is the health care law mean to me, my small business and employers. >> sounds like you need a pamp thet to explain the law, not say i'm going to take it away. people actually don't want this message of repeal. if you look at the polls, and kaiser has done the best wol polling on this. they've done a poll where they discovered only 11% of people want to actually replace the affordable care act with some nebulous republican alternative. so can republicans keep up the passion to repeal when actually there is only about 1 in 10 people polled who say they want repeal at all? >> well, they can. i think for a lot of republican, conservatives and a good part of the voting bloc, the base of the republican party, this is not a question of rational politics, this is theology. obama care is now the surrogate, the stand-in for everything they hate about obama. he's for socialism, he's against freedom, he wants to destroy the country, all things we've heard conservatives say for the last five, six year ps and they're not going to give it up because the early signs are positive. we talked about this, about being a base election, getting the base riled up. and the republican party has moved so far to the right, they can't really come up with any plan. all health care policies involves tradeoffs and difficulties and paying for things. they can't come up with a consensus plan they agree with. all they can do is continue to claim that obama care is apocalyptic and there may have been problems in tennessee, chip, the obama care, other wise known as romney care in massachusetts is working. if you do see those problems, it would be great in republicans in washington would come together and work with democrats to figure out how to make this work in the long run if you have fears for what might happen in five or ten years from now. >> chip, isn't the idea that your party is simply -- it doesn't matter about the truth and the facts about the law, whether it's working. it's about stoking the base by repeating over and over, obamacare bad. >> the truth does matter and my party wants to get to the truth. the bottom line, this is a big government health care program, we know that. and at the end of the day, conservatives don't think a big centralized federal government can do this better than the states or the local government or the private insurance companies. you're sending millions of people new to the government roles they can't pay for in the lorng term. >> where was the republican party since 2010 in the house when it's a majority or any time in the last 20 years in terms of putting together something if it doesn't like this sort of program? it hasn't cared about health care. >> bill frist, bobby jindhal, republican leaders that talked about health care in their states and the country that can work long term. >> a bloc grant to the states is still the exact same federal mon no money. it's the exact same money. >> but there's a limit put on it. >> it's going to be hard to take something away from people. baby steps, conservatives are clinging to the possibility that hillary clinton won't run for president now that she's going to be a grandmother. but have you heard anyone suggest that jeb bush won't run now that he's a grandpa? also we had some fun at the expense of that welfare cowboy in nevada. but he did get the feds to back off. tonight what that tells us about the power of the so-called patriot groups. plus those leaflets in ukraine telling jews to register with the new government or sells. it's generated concerns about anti-semitism and a lot of skepticism. who was really behind it? and someone who has the make the biggest decision of her life all i a loan with the whole world watching. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the nissan altima with nasa inspired zero gravity seats. ♪ let it take the weight off your drive. ♪ ♪ nissan. innovation that excites. 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[ female announcer ] some questions take more than a bank. they take a banker. make a my financial priorities appointment today. because when people talk, great things happen. president obama pushes democrats to run on obamacare, outgoing health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius is not considering running for the senate in her home state of kansas. she was said to be considering running against incumbent republican senator pat roberts. sebelius served as two terms of governor of kansas before joining president obama's cabinet. kansas, by the way, hasn't elected a democrat to the united states senate since 1938. we'll be right back. (vo) you are a business pro. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. and only national is ranked highest in car rental customer satisfaction by j.d. power. (aaron) purrrfect. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro. could mean less waiting for things like security backups and file downloads you'd take that test, right? what are you waiting for? you could literally be done with the test by now. now you could have done it twice. this is awkward. go to comcastbusiness.com/ checkyourspeed. if we can't offer faster speeds or save you money we'll give you $150. comcast business built for business. >> i want a happy wife and she won't be unless she's a grandmoth grandmother. i think she wants that more than she wants to be president. >> hillary is now a grand mother in waiting started a flurry of speculation about what chelsea's maternity could mean for 2016. >> mark and i are very excited that we have our first child arriving later this year. >> most exciting title yet, grandmother to be. but could a baby in the family take hillary out of politics. there was sol wishful thinking about republicans and hand wringing among democrats that a new grandchild might cause hillary to rethink what everyone assumes is her plan to run i suppose we have to do it, guys. so i will actually go ahead and go around the table. do you believe that hillary's grandmother to be status makes her more or less likely to run? >> it doesn't hurt, that's for sure. it's fun to speculate about. >> i guess as a woman, when you hear that it softens her image, i wonder how that strikes you. he nooe needs softening somehow and this does the trick. >> would anyone ever ask if jeb push or mitt romney would somehow impact their decision to run for president of the united states. prigcy, mother hood and grandmother hood are not disabilities. i don't think it will have any impact on whether she will run for president. it will show people that hillary clinton is softened. in 2008 after that new hampshire primary when we saw her get a little teary and talking about how hard it was, it was the first time that people saw her not as a quote, unquote, se semi nazi, but as a woman. the other thing we should remark on, joy, is that this could do so much for women in the sense that it could show it embodies the fruition of second wave feminism. she will show you can have it all. she's had an incredible political career, and you can be a mother and a grandmother and you can run for the highest office of the land and maybe even win. >> i wonder if it strikes you that in sort of that's the duality of the idea of a woman president. the same thing that makes her so appealing to especially a lot of younger women is this notion that she could break this highest political glass cell ceiling. but the fact that the rest of that is loaded into it, showing that she's a mom, the fact that her image is considered hardened because it lacks that sort of maternal softness. that is the duality of running as a woman president. is it just inevitable? or something particular to hillary clinton>> it's inevitable and it's not just sexism. let's remember back in '88 when everybody who was skeptical or even hostile to jesse jackson saw him soften up when they saw his family on the stage and talk about what wonderful parents they've been. it helps every pligs. it's affected jeb bush a few years ago when there was some domestic turmoil. this kind of speculation happens to everybody. bill clinton is the master of projecting warmth and charisma. well, he came here just for me. hillary clinton has always had to work a little harder at that as do most politicians. i still say she's the front-runner on the democratic side by a long shot and she's still got a lot of great good will out there from people who wanted to vote for her back in '08 and didn't get the chance. >> i think it's different for women. i mean, i'm not fan of sarah palin, but in 2008, remember all of the headlines were how is this woman going to be on the vice presidential ticket when she has so many children. when joe biden's first wife passed away, i have not been able to find any headlines that said can joe biden actually be a senator when he has lost his wife? who's going to raise his children? there is a double standard. it is getting better. we're not seeing the type of headlines today that we saw in 2008 about hillary clinton and other women, there's something particular to the clintons. got the conspiracy theorizing that maybe this was all plan planned to detract from something nefarious. i wonder if she has the grav tasz for even republican conservative women to vote for her. . >> we have a whole group of women called red state feminists who are conservative women, stayed at home, raised children, maybe are even involved in home schooling and sort of fit like the feminist movement turn their noses on them and forgot about them and for those people, i think seeing hillary clinton in this role gives them hope that people will understand that they are no less feminists because of the decisions that they've made in term of of how they're going to rear their families. well, i don't think we dialled down the pressure on hillary clinton to run for president. all right, up next, you probably could have predicted this reaction on the far right to chelsea clinton's announcement. this is "hardball." a place for politics. the conversation about his car loan didn't start here. it began way, way back. before he had children. before he got married. it started in his very first apartment. see that overdue bill? it arrived after he moved out. and he never got it. but he's not worried. checking his credit report and score at experian.com allowed him to identify and better address the issue... ... and drive off into the sunset. experian . live credit confident.™ >> on november 2, the people of toronto, you folks, you folks will continue the most open, honest, hardworking mayor that this city has ever seen. >> and hard partying. time for "the side show." rob ford has been a familiar face in the side show since his antics made him infamous in this country since last year. and now he's officially declared his candidacy for re-election. we're likely to see more of him to come. next, texas gubernatorial candidate wendy davis hit a republican opponent for his ties to a short-lived political action committee are with a rather unsavory name. boats and hoes pac. seriously. created just 17 days ago. the pac borrowed its name from the will ferrell comedy "step phat brothers." the texas republicans say they want to reach out to women to be more inclusive, but actions like this reinforce a pattern of disrespect. there's no defending the use of a doctoring toir a-- derogatory offensive terms like hos. the pac was officially shut down yesterday. abbott is leading in the polls but this certainly won't help him with women. we saw the shoe truthers, folks like rush limbaugh who claimed hillary staged the altercation when a disturbed woman hurled a shoe at her on stage. but now, a new conspiracy theory is emerging from the right wing woodwork. hillary birtherism. as unbelievable as it may seem, the idea is that chelsea clinton's pregnancy is politically motivated to help hillary clinton in 2016 here's the explanation to that theory. >> i don't think she's making up that she's pregnant, but what great timing. purely accidental, purely an act of nature, purely just left up to god. and god answered hillary clinton's prayers and she's going to have the problem of being a new grandma while she runs for president. it warms the heart. >> i have no words. up next, that anti-government rancher in nevada managed to get the feds to back down. so what does that tell us about the power of these right wing patriot groups? 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[male announcer] glucerna. delicious shakes and bars... carsthey're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people. we are volvo of sweden. >> a captain and two crew members of the ferry that capsized in south korea have been arrested. the captain faces five charges including criminal negligence. 28 people are dead, 274 are missing. mohammad whitaker has been charged with shootings that left three people wounded. and the pope marks good friday. back to "hardball." >> welcome back to "hardball." a patriot party is designed to thank those who turned out to support the rampblers high profile stand against federal authorities. but the tense standoff has raised new questions about how to especially force the law in the face of defiebt, in this case heavily armed opposition. it may sound like a scene from the pron tier days of the wild west, but bundy and his supporters have been emboldened to the point of delusion, enabled by loud voices on the hard right. they call themselves patriot the, but yesterday, nevada senator harry reid characterized them differently. >> there are hundreds, hundreds of people from around the country that came there. they had sniper rifles on the freeway. they had assault weapons. they had automatic weapons. these people who hold themselves out to be patriots are not. they're nothing more than domestic terrorists. and i think we are a country that people should follow the law. >> in response, bundy took to fox news last night. now listen carefully, though, because he's not exactly quick to reject reid's label. >> when you hear senator harry reid call you a domestic terrorist, what do you have to say to the senator? >> well, i guess he's right. i don't know what else we would be. we're definitely citizens round up. i don't know if you can call us terrorists. we're most loving people. i guess i can't see how he gets that type of description out of these people. >> terrorist or not, jonathan allen of rueters reports we may see more armed confrontations like this to come. quote, energized by their success, bundy supporters are already talking about where else they can exercise armed defiance. in the days since the showdown, right wing websites have begun searching for other bundys. brian, i want to start with you. loving people. is that the way you would describe these patriot groups? >> they're loving people who hate the federal goth, i'll tell you that. i want to be careful. these are not people interested in participating in a representative democracy. mr. bundy lost every court fight he had. this is going on for 20 year, and he owes $1 million to the government. these are people who are declaring war on the government. and this kind of armed confrontation that we've seen here is unprecedented. >> to your point about being unpress tented. they said they could not actually think of another example in rekent decades where different militia groups from around the country banded together to offer this kind of armed resistance to thwart law enforcement. how unpriested is this? >> it is unprecedented. we saw the banking and farm crisis during the '80s show up and protest. we saw similar things in the militia movements of the 1990s but not to the extent where we had this armed accomplish presence actually soliciting for new catalytic events, if you will, that they can show up and band together with. indeed, mr. bundy called it the battle of bunkerville. this is an extremely situation and i'm glad you're all covering it. this is sending a really nefarious message to would be aiders and abettors to lawbreakers nationwide. >> and given the fact that guns are involved, people are fanning out in militia style and banding together, is harry reid right to use the determine domestic terrorist? is it too inflammatory? or what's your view on reid's statement? >> nobody can really control what comes out of harry reid's mouth. he has the tendency to pop off like that. i think the blm had the right idea to deescalate here. thoo there's nothing these groups want so much as a martyr. you don't get the oklahoma city bombing unless you have the conflagration in waco. there's going to be other would-be matterers if thing has a celebrated explosion as well. it is very smart to deescalate this. the federal government can outwait this moment. and this is not the rebirth of the militia movement. >> while the federal government is deescalating, you have conspiracy theorists that are promoting bundy and actually stoking this kind of activity. he said this. americans showed up with guns and said no, you're not, before confronting the armed blm agent and they said shoot us and they did not. that's epic and it's going to happen more. when you have alan jones stoking this kind of behavior, should we be worried that this ent eventually escalating into violence? >> we do not want a catalytic violent event like we had with waco. and as someone who trains state and federal agent, they did the right thing. we have an isolated and contained situation. but i think what we have here today, unlike in the past, we now have the internet and we now have an echo chamber consistenting of mainstream politicians as well as journalists really fuelling the fire here. we now have a moment that's much more sophisticated with their information and technology exchange. i worry even though we don't have a violent catalystic event, we do have a very active militia movement in the united states with over 1,000 active patriot groups who, by the way, many are legal, and many are exercising their political right, as well as about 240 militias. and many of them are relatively harmless. but the fact is in a representative democracy like we have, the presence of private armies who challenge law enforcement to armed confrontations is a dangerous thing and is not something that we should underestimate. >> dana, that is the key as well. they can communicate over the internet, but also are being reinforced by all of these media entities including what is pretty mainstream conservative tv. that's the new el pmt isn't that what makes it more dangerous? >> i think that's a crucial piece of this, the fox news, rush limbaugh glenn beck access there. but the other piece that was just mentioned is you've got dean helder, the united states senator from n nv calling these guys patriots. brian sandoval, the republican governor of nevada declining to criticize bundy and his people as much as he's interested in criticizing the federal government's response to this. you have the rand paul wing saying the federal government is misbehaving. so i think that's a new and very ominous thing. enate fits a lot with the sovereign state, the states rights movements and aimless talks of secession you're hearing every from texas to wisconsin. that, i think, is important because you're hearing that from officials not just some guy in a t-shirt with an automatic weapon. >> that's an excellent point. coming up, who's really behind those leaflets telling ukrainian jews to register with the new government there? 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>> well, i thought the president said it exactly right, which is we hope for a better outcome, and we prepare for a different outcome. and what he means in terms of preparing for a different outcome, if we have to, we, the united states, and the rest of europe, would be to increase economic sanctions, not just against individuals, as was done before, but against whole sectors of the economy against major economic institutions inside russia. he's threatened that before. the president has. and i fully expect that if there is increased violence in eastern ukraine, that will be the western response. >> so mike the, there's a really disturbing story this week out of the city in eastern ukraine under the control of pro-russian forces. on wednesday jewish worshippers leaving a synagogue were confronted by three masked men on the sidewalk handing out leaflets demanding jews register with local authorities and pay a fine. other flyers were reportedly left on parked cars in the area and supposedly signed by a leader of a pro-russian group. that man has denied having anything to do with it. secretary kerry quickly condemned whoever is behind it. >> just in the last couple of days notices were sent to jews in one city indicating that they have to identify themselves as jews. in the year 2014, after all of the miles traveled and all of the journey of history, this is not just intolerable it's grotesque. it is beyond unacceptable. >> so president obama's national security adviser susan rice also spoke about it today at the white house briefing. take a listen. >> president expressed his disgust quite bluntly, i think we all found word of those pamphlets to be utterly sickening, and they have no place in the 21st century. >> many have pointed out that the origin is still unknown so caution is necessary. but abraham fossey the national director of the anti-defamation league said we're skeptical about the flyers' authenticity but the restrictions clearly recall the nazi area and have the effect of intimidating the local jewish community. what do you make of this development in this already disturbing story? >> well, of course, it's horrific. especially if you know the history of those very towns and cities that this is being circulated in. and i don't claim to know who actually put out that pam let but what i am sure about is that the nationalistic fervor that president putin has stirred up, creates these kinds of unintended consequences. i don't believe that president putin would in any way endorse this. but he is fomenting a kind of ethnic nationalism. it used to be more of a nationalistic kind of patriotism. now, if you watch television, and they're all watching television in that part of eastern ukraine coming from russia, it is this new nationalistic sentiment and this is what happens. and that's why it's extremely dangerous and can spin out of control from leaders, even vladimir putin's control. >> yeah, indeed. thanks so much, ambassador michael mcfaul. >> thank you. >> and we'll be back in just a moment. but before we go, here's a picture of chris and his wife kathleen on their travels in beijing. in 1953. afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971. 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(vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro. let me finish tonight with hillary clinton and the momentous decision she will make and that only she can make, whether or not to run for president. now normally it's a decision that a candidate makes with the counsel of their family and their trusted advisers and in their own spirit and conscience. but for hillary, the terrible truth is that her agency, her ability to make this most grave decision, is being handed around to all of those whose hopes are pinned firmly to her, and her alone. that especially includes women, particularly democratic women who watched the presidency slip from their collective hands in 2008 as barack obama outsprinted hillary toward breaking that other glass ceiling to give america its first black president. a recent gallup poll finds that 18% of americans said hillary being the first woman president would be the best thing about her gaining the office. twice the number who said her experience. and that number was 22% for women, 27% for 18 to 29-year-olds, and 30% for democrats. and last month when hillary gave a speech at the close of the clinton global initiative conference at arizona state a young woman student took to the microphone and pointedly asked hillary, mrs. clinton, if you don't represent women in politics in america as future president, who will? and that's the problem. democrats don't have a plan "b" for who will. as much as we all love joe biden, the red lights flashing in front of him by the halls of washington couldn't be brighter and with even the possibility of hillary on the table, no other democrat is out there auditioning for the job. there's no democratic equivalent to rand paul or chris christie or jeb bush or even american/canadian ted cruz. and there's no barack obama riding a singular moment like his 2004 convention speech into even the possibility of a run. so for better or for worse, it's all on hillary. all of it. the dreams of women, the plans of democrats, and that doesn't leave much room for her to make this crucial decision all by and for herself. would she be willing to walk away and take the silent blame if democrats somehow fail to keep the white house in 2016? could she walk away and keep her legacy intact? we shouldn't have to ask. she should be able to just be grandma, if that's what she wants. but then, she wouldn't be hillary clinton. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from new york i'm chris hayes at this hour the family of cliven bundy is celebrating. this is the barbecue the bundy family is hosting right now near their nevada ranch for some of the roughly 1,000 militiamen, gun rights advocates and supporters who helped the bundy family stare down the federal government's attempt to collect cliven bundy's cattle because bundy has refused to pay federal grazing fees for 20 years and now owes the government about $1 million. after a tense standoff the bureau of land management backed down, after bundy supporters took up sniper positions, and vowed to lay down their lives in support of the cause.