0 by these revisions. >> david, let me ask you this question, because you would know these -- david, you would know these facts better than i, perhaps. to an outsider, to a layperson, to hear there were 12 revisions to the talking points, that sounds ominous. in the normal -- in the normal course of events, how often is something like this edited, revised? >> i mean, if you look at some of the revisions, if you go through them, and i salute jonathan for putting this online. you can see in some of these revisions, some forms, one or two words were taken out that had no real substantive meaning. but it's not unusual for an interagency thing that involves multiple agencies to bounce around again and again and again and again and before it's all resolved. that's not unusual at all. >> hang on. hang on a second david. hang on just one second. >> the process here? >> the e-mails that were released by "the weekly standard" of david petraeus' reaction to this were not, oh, this was fine with me, i wanted it to be taken out. he was very surprised these were taken out. so that's number one. number two, you're totally right. lots of revisions happen. that's very normal. the issue is what was the intent here with the revisions and why did the white house feel the need to lie about it? why did they feel the need to keep lying about it? why did they feel the need to keep saying that this was about something that it wasn't about? i think that everybody who looks at this objectively can understand that the white house gave every appearance of having something to hide. and that's a big part of the problem here. >> danielle, allow me to respond to that if i might. i want to show everybody something. the idea that there was a vast cover-up involved was shut down by ambassador thomas pickering. he co-authored the most extensive independent investigation of the benghazi attacks. here's what he told andrea mitchell this week. >> i believe, in fact, the accountability review board did its work well. i think that the notion of, quote, a cover-up, has all the elements of pulitzer prize fiction attached to it. >> i play this because, danielle, that's an individual who looked at the facts and come to the conclusion there was not a lie nor a cover-up in this case. >> what's the cover-up? >> let danielle respond to that. >> you asked me a question. thanks. okay. i've known tom pickering for almost 20 years. tom was the author of that. he is an esteemed diplomat and a former foreign service officer. the bottom line is, they did not talk to gregory hicks, the deputy chief of mission in baghdad. they didn't talk to the chief security officer. they were doing a job for the state department. he's very loyal to them. i appreciate that. i would also add that tom pickering turned down an invitation from the house of representatives to defend the administrative review board. instead he went on and talked to a much more sympathetic person, andrea mitchell. nice for nbc but not good for the country. >> listen, not appearing before darrell issa's committee when he's made all sorts of outlandish charges about this i don't think is, you know, gets to the credibility of tom pickering. but the big issue here is, what is the cover-up? what -- you know, if you look -- the review board, you know, found wrongdoing in the part of the state department, and some of the people have been punished. some people have then resigned. that's been resolved. if you look at -- if you make the conservative charge is that the president is covering up some malfeasance or something, but if you look at the revisions, you don't see that the white house being involved in covering these things up. it's victoria nuland who actually is not a political appointee, but a career foreign serviceperson who worked for the national security council during the bush years. >> hey, david, when you see jay carney at 4:00 p.m. on a friday holding a briefing, having already had a background briefing, that tells you this thing is very high on the attention scale of the white house. i think -- >> indeed. >> -- unlike any time in the whole era post-september 11th, meaning this september 11th that we're talking about. >> yeah, jay carney has got caught saying something that wasn't completely true. >> that's called a lie, david. >> we in washington -- everything you say that's not true may not be a lie, but if you want to accept that premise, i'll happily accuse you of lying when you get things wrong. >> okay. i'll let you try that out on your kids. >> nevertheless, you know, in this city, if something is wrong, we have a scale of zero to ten. and so you have lindsey graham out there saying this is watergate. you have darrell issa making all sorts of ludicrous charges. if jay carney and the white house didn't tell the complete truth, that is something that deserves reporting and conversation, but it doesn't make it a major league scandal yet. >> i watched jay carney handle this this afternoon and, frankly, he didn't back off from his prior assertion. on the issue of how far this might lead, according to critics of the white house, as you were just referencing. earlier this week mike huckabee predicted the president would not fill out his term due to benghazi. today on a radio program senator james inhofe -- >> are you two guys enjoying your conversation? >> start discussing the "i" word, impeachment. listen to this. >> of all the great cover-ups in history, we're talking about the pentagon papers, the iran/contra, watergate, and all the rest of them. this, i said back on november 28th on fox, is going to go down as the most serious, most egregious cover-up in american history. people may be starting to use the "i" word before too long. >> oh, okay. the "i" word meaning impeachment? >> yeah. >> danielle, is that farfetched to you? >> yes. i think that what he said was silly, but i also think that by trotting out all of these straw men, you're failing to address the central problem here which is "a" the president of the united states went out when he knew there was a terrorist attack. and he said that it was all about a demonstration and a youtube video. the ambassador to the u.n. did the same thing. so did hillary clinton. i'm less excited about the talking points and much more excited about why they felt the need to lie for five days to the american people. if that doesn't merit an investigation, i don't know what does. >> i can't let it past that you used lie word. lie assumes malice aforethought. lie assumes someone knows what they're saying is deliberately untrue. i listened to you. just permit me a final word. i don't think the record -- >> not much. >> -- speaks to that fact. it may never speak to that fact. we've both been heard. i do thank you. danielle pletka, david corn. coming up, republicans are eager to rough up hillary. some are happily discussing impeachment. we're going to look at whether there's real political fallout here. also the horror of the cleveland kidnappings. how will the girls recover? we'll talk about their chances which turns out is better than you might have expected. the latest in our series "the unkindest cut." how sequester cuts are hurting victims of domestic violence both in and out of the military. finally, democrat, republicans and the beatles. which party prefers john? and which favors paul? that and more of the red and blue musical divide on the sideshow. this is "hardball." the place for politics. ♪ [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] new jersey governor chris christie defended himself against his critics on the right who say he's not conservative enough. take a look at what he told nbc's brian williams. >> i'll worry about the presidency if and when i ever decide to run for it. but if you're saying to me, how do i feel as a republican? i'm a damn good republican and a good conservative republican who believes in things that i believe in, but that does not mean that i would ever put party before my state or party before my country. >> brian's interview with governor christie airs tonight on "rock center." we'll be right back. ght. [ goodall ] i think the most amazing thing is how like us these chimpanzees are. [ laughing ] [ woman ] can you hear me? and you hear your voice? oh, it's exciting! [ man ] touchdown confirmed. we're safe on mars. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ hi. 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