0 thing on the left. starting howard deem. also, the whole idea of sequestration emanated -- >> what office does howard dean own? >> i'm just saying. you're pointing and saying. >> it pushes both of these folks -- >> i'm sosh ri. i just want to check your facts. what democrats holding office in the congress want to see sequestration. >> the ones who voted for it. starting with them. you mean this whole thing got passed just on republican votes? >> it was called kicking the can -- >> are you kidding? >> i'm going to ask you again, do you believe right now there are any democrats in the house or senate who want to see sequestration? >> yes. >> name one. >> there have been folks on the sure we don't have willy-nilly cuts that harm the military strength of the country, and republicans are advocating for cuts that would severely diminish the military capability of our country. it's nuts, absolutely nuts. it is politics over what's good for the country. the president, chris, put a balanced solution of cuts, significant cuts, including entitlement cuts and raising revenue by making sure that everyone who makes $1 million pays a tax rate higher than the ordinary working person. >> what's wrong with that? that's what the polls say. >> that's wrong with that. >> "the new york times" suggested that congressional republicans are not concerned about how this fight will pan out for their party. they report, quote, house republicans say they are feeling invulnerable to the current clash. redistricting has made most of them immune to political threats and entreaties for many representing conservative district where the president holds little sway. an attack by president obama is a badge of honor. here is some of the tea party types we found today, just today, michael, who are backing the cuts. ohio congressman jim jordan said back in october, quote, i would say the only thing that's worse than cutting national defense is not having any scheduled cuts in place at all. louisiana congressman steve scalise told "dow jones business news," quote, the consensus is we want the sequester numbers to come in and finally reduce spending in washington. south carolina congressman mike mulvaney said we want to keep the sequester in place and take the cuts we can get. georgia congressman paul broun, i want to see it go into place. and rand paul in his tea party response to the state of the union said, not only should the sequester stand, many pundits say the sequester really needs to be at least $4 trillion to avoid another downgrade on america's credit rating. there you have a lot of people on the record, michael, on the republican side saying they want the sequester. i'm curious why you contend this is not a partisan issue. >> because it isn't, chris. chris, it passed on a bipartisan vote. so unless you're telling me that those democrats, including those in the white house who supported -- who originated this idea of sequestration are now saying that that vote didn't matter, that's just ludicrous. that's my only point. yes, republicans have come to a point where republicans are now saying, yeah, okay, let's see what -- >> i think a fair analysis of this is that the democrats who voted for the sequestration, those who did thought that republicans would never put up with a big cut in defense. i think -- >> so they didn't mean it. they were just toying around with the economy. >> you could call it toying around. >> i can -- oh, yeah. >> i'm not defending everybody that votes -- >> look, you're not getting the democrats off -- you're not getting your side off the hook on this and dropping it all on the republicans' lap because that's the mantra and the spin you want to put on this. >> okay. >> both sides are equally responsible -- >> i have to examine that phrase, my fat off the hook. i just found that incredible as a metaphor. it must be an old time expression. >> you're trying to get your fat off the hook. >> that's a barnyard expression, i guess. governor rendell -- you've lost so much weight i don't think that counts. the fat off the hook. >> i think it means the meat off the grill so the fat doesn't burn away. am i right, michael? >> that works, too, governor. >> well, i want to ask michael one question. >> go ahead, take over. >> michael, and i agree with you, democrats did vote and support the sequester, although i don't think many democrats, if any, would be for the sequester going into effect. but what is wrong with significant cuts in entitlements, more cuts than raised revenue when the only revenue we're raising is on millionaires to make sure that they pay the same tax rate or slightly higher than ordinary working people pay? what's wrong with that? >> didn't we just do that? hey, governor, didn't we just do that last month? >> no, let me respond to that. let me respond to that. what we did the last time is we raised the rates, but we didn't stop rich people from having their accountants and tax lawyers -- >> oh, lord. >> -- rip asunder that and wind up paying 15%. while a secretary pays 28%. >> you guys are just greedy. you're just greedy. you want to spend, you want to spend, you want to spend. you don't want to deal with the issue. there's no doubt about that. but it still doesn't change the underlying facts that democrats, including the newly elected -- re-elected president, are on the hook for this just as much as the republicans are. neither side have effectively dealt with this. we've left simpson/bowles sitting on the sidelines. we've now had simpson/bowles two, no one is talking about that. sequester is something that both democrats and republicans put on the table. and now everyone is acting like, oh, my god, we're going to do this? come on. >> so the republicans are losing the fight over public opinion, governor. it's usually important in politics, public opinion. >> it's not important until it's time for an election. >> and the republicans are losing the fight and democrats are winning it, and the question is who is playing fair here? i don't think boehner is at fault. i think boehner's problem -- and i use the phrase feeding time at the zoo very accurately -- i think he's keeping the right wing of his party now satisfied. they want the sequestration. they don't mind if government takes a big hit. that's what they have been i'm not going to play the whole partisan card here and jump up and down screaming because i'm on your show. no, i think some of that is fair. >> you don't have to do that. you never do that. >> i never do that, but i think some of it -- just to bring it back into the real, i mean, i get the whole partisan game of wanting to put the blame on one side, but you know at the end of the day, that poll notwithstanding, the president also risked coming out of this thing on the 2nd of march a little bit more bloodied than he is today as do the democrats. >> they're all going to get hurt, but i do believe if the republican party were a united party today of the slightly or somewhat center right, a bit to the right, maybe a couple notches, it could come to terms -- >> you're going to give us just a couple notches? that's it. just a couple notches? >> how far right do you want to go? >> until i'm comfortable. >> i think it isn't a bargaining party. that's the problem, and the president needs somebody to bargain with like the israelis when they have a good government and can't find somebody on the other side of the river to deal with. >> like i said, when i come into the room to bargain with you, i want you to still be in the room, and the president has often times left the room, too. >> i want to say, chris, the president has no fat on the grill. he has no fat on his body at all. >> fat on the hook? michael, let's get the metaphor. fat on the hook? >> fat on the hook. >> what in god's name does it mean? >> i think it's "on the waterfront." i think it's how rod steiger ended up with that movie. thank you, michael steele and ed rendell. coming up, the karl rove schadenfreude express. he was bush's brain, the architect, the evil genius. then came 2012. now the tea party has declared war, and progressives are as happy as hell munching on popcorn and watching this whole spectacle. karl rove is in the middle of trouble. also, here is the latest critique of the gop appearing in today's "washington post." the party has become too extreme, too ideological, it's position is irresponsible. you might expect it from nancy pelosi, but it's from virginia's lieutenant governor bill bolling. it's republican lieutenant governor by the way. and things are pretty bad when republicans are talking that way about their party. and are prisoners at guantanamo getting federal benefits? no. it's an online joke that some republicans fell for. let me finish with what happened to the republican party of 1960. it was all about civil rights, all for voting for civil rights and voting rights. you should see the numbers. today it's the party of reince priebus and all that voter suppression. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. hey! did you know that honey nut cheerios has oats that can help lower cholesterol? and it tastes good? sure does! wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? be happy. be healthy.