0 down with foreign leaders around the world. then there was another part of this administration, people here in this west wing. susan rice is somebody they know very well. they're very loyal to her. this is somebody who has worked her way up through the diplomatic ranks in a way that's different from john kerry. john kerry worked his way up to the political ranks. susan rice has done every job you need to have done in unelected politics, if you will, to be qualified, to have the resume, to have the experience to be secretary of state. and, by the way, don't forget there was also the fact that kerry and rice in some ways some could argue see the world a little bit differently. susan rice is somebody a little more of an interventionist. wants to get involved. look at libya. she was somebody that was strongly there. john kerry is somebody who has seen war firsthand and is somebody who is very much hesitant as an interventionist when it comes to things. voted against things. so there was a lot here i think that was more than just am i graham, don't come after me. if you want -- don't go after her, come after me if you want to attack me. don't go after my u.n. ambassador. and it was right out of, you know, michael douglas and the american president as we all noted at the time. and you're a film guy, you know what was going on there. he made it very clear he wanted her. again, in a cabinet meeting he led the applause of saw san rice. he signaled in every way possible but she was twisting in the wind. she wasn't a nominee. she didn't have the armor of a nominee. >> what stopped him from once he stuck his neck out for her in personal terms at that press conference, what stopped the president from then doubling down and saying, this is my appointment here? this is it. she will be my next secretary of state? >> the fact some of the people he's closest to, as chuck knows, the reporting that people were advising the president you do not need this fight and it is lot. so i don't think that they were going to step into that at all. i mean, i know there's always been speculation that susan rice and secretary clinton weren't close, and it all -- some of that all goes back to the '08 primary campaign. susan rice was very prominent surrogate and, in fact, you have some people who believe that that's what -- that's the issue john mccain has with her, that this goes back to the 2008 campaign when susan rice was the prominent foreign policy surrogate on behalf of then candidate obama. >> let me go back to andrea on that same question. the role of the clintons here because i have heard a couple very strong ways, good reporting from people, that the clintons did have an opinion in this matter. >> i'm sure they had an opinion, but i do not think they voiced it. i think they were very, very careful. this was dynamite, to come out against susan rice for hillary clinton. she said everything that she could to support her. and they did work out their relationship. clearly susan rice was in the camp as samantha powers and other foreign policy advisers were of obama, not clinton, during those primaries, but hillary clinton has been pitch perfect on being a loyalist to barack obama and on working out her relationship with his former advisers even those in the white house who have kept her at arm's length. >> okay. what do you think about the appointment? do it come down to two and therefore is it kerry's? >> that is my betting barring something completely unforeseen. i think john kerry is going to be nominated and i cannot imagine him not being confirmed, but then again we said that about john tower. no comparison, no comparison -- >> wow. >> chairman of the armed services committee -- >> that's -- >> let me just make my point, guys, i know you're laughing at me and jopt to be hoisted on this petard, but when committee chairman then become nominated, their colleagues look at them with great deference but you never know what you don't know. john kerry is completely qualified, healthy despite, you know, a scare back in '04, and we could imagine a very quick and easy confirmation. >> far better this. i'm not laughing at you i'm enjoying one aspect of the way you said something. do you think this is a much better appointment from kerry's point of view than had he been ut up for defense when there was the old issue of his anti-war activities? >> and of his qualifications. he has foreign policy experience but the military street cred, even though he was a war hero, it's a very controversial and he doesn't have the primary budget experience that leon panetta had as a former budget director. >> one thing this does potentially reopen back up so there had been a lot of reporting, andrea has done a lot of reporting on this, chuck hag hagel, among the leading cont d contenders to be defense secretary. however, i think the developments here and i have talked to some senior officials who sort of confirm it, the developments here may change the calculus a little bit. the president wants a second term cabinet that is both powerful and that looks like america. there's not going to be -- so i wouldn't be surprised if you see some of the prominent women candidates that were already being talked about for defense, including michele flournoy -- >> i agree completely. >> -- being considered for defense and seeing that glass ceiling broken. >> go ahead, andrea. >> she was on my show yesterday and she said she wasn't being vetted. so maybe -- i don't know what to make of that. >> you're a student of politics as well as we are. here is the question, doesn't he need a balanced ticket at the top? defense, state, treasury, and ag. we have one african-american as attorney general. doesn't he have to have a woman in the big four? don't you think? >> absolutely. janet napolitano for ag, but maybe there is a woman for treasury secretary. >> look, brainard is well respected in the international -- been involved in the european debt crisis. i think she could be somebody you see sort of re-emerge as a potential leading candidate. >> i think looking like america is a big deal these days, a very big deal. thank you so much andrea mitchell. thank you, chuck todd. chuck, you're staying with us on this political thing we're doing next. coming up, the results of our new poll are in and one thing is clear. the republican party has a sorry reputation right now. do you believe that? big time. the most frequent words people use to describe the party are bad, weak, and negative. for all the millions the party spent to sell its candidates, the american public really doesn't like what it sees when it hears the word republican. plus, a preview of coming attractions. hillary clinton and chris christie coming soon to a presidential primary near you. we're talking 2016. could clinton versus christie be the dream match-up for every political junkie this side of heaven. and president obama and john boehner talking again. can boehner deliver enough votes in his caucus. let me finish with that old question, why not the best? this is "hardball," the place for politics. your former self? c'mon, michael! get in the game! 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[ laughs ] hey! one headline from our nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. for the first time ever a majority of voters support marriage equality. catch this. 51% now say they support smetion marriage. all you have to do to look at our polls from the past few years to see how fast public opinion has changed on that issue. back in 2004, for example, when republicans used the issue to defeat john kerry, only 30% supported gay mare. in 2009 it was up to 41%. earlier this year support for same-sex was up to 49%. a solid majority, if a small one. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles