0 managed to slip right through. gone. the whole ball game. the game they had won now lost. and that's why they're looking for someone to blame. they can't blame that liberal obama, so they're blaming that liberal romney. that northeastern liberal crowd. texas senator-elect ted cruz is crueler still. he accuses romney of going out there and french kissing obama. yes, they're blaming romney now. they were blaming chris christie for working with obama during hurricane sandy. now they're blaming romney for dancing with him through the election. get it? the strict orthodox side of the republican party are blaming the candidate himself for giving away their virtue. ed rendell is the former governor of pennsylvania, and msnbc political analyst. matt kibbe is the president of freedomworks. governor and matt, this is the most unusual pairing i've ever been part of, you and matt kibbe, you and the man of the northeast establishment, a moderate governor of pennsylvania. here is matt railing at the ramparts against all you represent. this should be interesting. the right fights back. since the election a lot of quote, what i learned is the people who are still out there running on bold ideas, those conservatives won. in the case of rehberg, berg, and tommy thompson, having a moderate candidate does not win races for republicans. i want to start with you, matt, because you're on the right, and your sense of this election. was romney too moderate and too big tent and not fervent enough and not that much of a conviction politician or was he unable to reach all kinds of people that just didn't go for the conservative message? >> you know, if you look at this race, it wasn't so much conservative versus moderate. it was lacking a set of issues. you really struggled to see what mitt romney was for, and there is a sense amongst the establishment republican political class to not run on issues, to almost run a beauty contest, and mitt romney lost that fight against barack obama. i think it's pretty clear that when republicans run on core fiscal conservative issues and offer a positive, compelling about that woman out in -- i forget her name, unfortunately, out in nevada who was really tough on -- sharron angle who was so tough on issues she was talking about. do you think they're saying it the wrong way when they're speaking conservative language or they're saying something wrong? >> well, you know, todd akin -- >> which is it? >> todd akin was never a tea party candidate. that's important. there were two other primary challengers who were the favorite of the tea party who focused on fiscal -- >> were they to his right? >> no -- well, they were focused on economic issues. he was always from the social conservative wing of the party, but a big fan of earmarks. even claire mccaskill discovered she was against earmarks. democrats ran on what i would call tea party issues, but there is no tea party. there is a set of issues that define the tea party movement, and you had both republicans and democrats successfully running against earmarks, distancing themselves from obama care, running for balanced budget. >> you say it's fiscal issues, but below the surface you hear a lot of concern about illegal immigration, anger about it from tea party people. it's not all numbers. >> it's not -- that's -- >> tell me how you deal with the immigration issue when you're talking to people who are here without papers or their families came here without papers and they come in that situation? they hear you say self-deport. they hear get out of here, which is literally what romney was saying, get out of here. is that -- did he say it wrong or did he say something wrong? did he say it the wrong way? >> are you calling mitt romney a tea party candidate? this is how it gets so confusing. >> you take a strict line on immigration. are you appealing to immigrants or not? >> here is what i think the tea party philosophy is on a lot of things. everybody should follow the same rules as everybody else, and we don't like changing the rules after the fact, and we'd like to get at the government failure on immigration. why is it that people who want to come here and work can't go through a rational process? isn't that part of the illegal problem? why don't we fix the government failure first? >> yeah, i'm with you. i would like to see work permits like in every other country in the universe, but the libertarians on the right don't believe in work permits. do they? the dick armeys of the world hate work permits. your witness, governor. >> but work permits are one of the answers to a long-term immigration bill. look, the problem is, on fiscal policy, first of all, matt, i would honestly say that this election rejected a lot of the fiscal policy that the right has been pushing. and i don't know specifically tea party, but i think americans do want government to be involved. i think sandy brought that issue home with a crashing reality. they don't want big government, but they want effective government. they want government to play a role in their life. they don't want a government that doesn't spend money on the things that are important to them. >> i want you to take this challenge from rush limbaugh, matt, and you are a good guy, so take on rushbo because either you're a solution, the cheerleader, or a problem. the day after the election rush limb bowe bau was saying, don't go crazy, republicans, you already have your outreach efforts in place. listen to this guy. i think he gets the point of it, ironically. >> clarence thomas, herman cain, none of it counts. don't tell me the republican party doesn't have outreach. we do. but what are we supposed to do now? are we supposed to -- in order to get the hispanic or latino vote, does that mean open the borders and embrace the illegals? is that -- i want you to think about this. if we're not getting the female vote, do we become pro-choice? do we start passing out birth control pills? is that what we have to do? >> is that what they have to do, matt? >> no. i think our movement is colorblind, and the irony of what we've done is we've repopulated the republican party with men and women, black, brown, white, it doesn't really matter because we judge people on issues. where do you think ted cruz came from? where do you think marco rubio came from? it wasn't the establishment of the party. it was us. we don't judge people based on the color of your skin. i thought that's what we all believed. >> they judge you that way. >> i think they judge you that rights are appropriate, life, liberty, and property. whatever that means. >> i think any conversation that's not about the fiscal crisis and the government spending too much money it doesn't have is off base right now, and i think that's what the tea party brought back to the conversation. we're actually concerned -- >> you say that. now, look, you keep saying it's only about money and dollars and cents. if it's only about that, the conservative party would be doing very well. but you always go off into this other -- here's senator marco rubio. i thought he was just a fiscal conservative. >> unbelievable. >> he looks pretty eager to curry favor with the hard right. take a look at what he said in an interview with "gq" magazine when asked how old the earth is. i'm not a scientist, man. i can tell what you recorded history says. i can tell what you the bible says, but i think that's a dispute among theologians. i think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the united states, whether the earth was created in seven days or seven actual eras. i'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer it. it's one of the great mysteries. the question to him is do you believe in science. that's a reasonable question. if lucy is over 2 million years old and we have scientific evidence of human life of some form going way back 2 million years, do you just ignore that because it says something in the bible? what do you do? and a person who believes that like that, doesn't separate his religion from his scientific faith, don't you have a problem with that person talking to them? >> i wonder why -- why do we care what -- >> why does he say that? why doesn't he say i believe in science? just say it. >> why do we care about what any politician -- >> because we talk about global warming and things like that. you would like to think you can start from a common basis believing in a scientific method. or else not. if you don't, then how do you have a conversation? >> i don't even see the link between the two. i happen to not know how old the earth is and -- >> governor, you again, because i don't know -- i'd like -- if i saw a doctor and on his wallet said imaginative design or some theory, i would say i wish you had taken biology in school just to start or organic chem. >> i think -- just answer the question. >> sure it does. if he denies science, he should say i believe in science. >> he doesn't deny science. i mean, that's ridiculous. >> he did on that. >> let me ask you -- i got up in philadelphia putting chains on my tires about every day when i went to high school. getting chains on the tires with the ice and snow is the way we lived. what happened? just what happened? >> weather changes. i mean -- >> it changes. i get you. >> have you noticed that? >> i would say it has been changing. i'd say new york is refitting itself from being under water practically. >> let's talk about a practical thing. if -- >> global warming is very important. >> okay. global warming is very important. what is it that we think that a bunch of politicians in washington, d.c., who can't even balance the budget, what are they going to do about global warming, seriously? >> i'll give you a perfect example. >> there's such a thing as political failure. there's such a thing as the limits to what government can do. if you really think that the climate is changing, do you really think that government can redesign the entire global economy, not just in the united states but in the entire world, in a more rational way? i think you're expecting too much from politics. >> not at all, matt. i'll give you just one example. and there are a legion of examples, by building up the c.a.f.e. standards, the miles per hour the cars are to get. we are burning significantly less petroleum because of what the obama administration has done to raise those standards. for every time we double the mileage requirement for cars, we are eliminating a significant amount of co2 that goes into the atmosphere. that's something government did, did it, you know, in a forthright fashion, and it is making a difference. >> okay. government put a man on the moon. government is not essentially incompetent. that's ridiculous argument. when we start taking steamship rides across the polar cap, i think you should admit something is going on a little different than, as you put it, weather changes. there ain't going to be a north pole anymore. where is santa claus going to live? anyway, ed rendell, thank you, governor, and thank you, matt for putting up with the truth, at least for ten minutes. >> more on the republican civil war. a crush rush. the sensible voices in the republican party are letting old rushbo in on a secret. it's not your grandfather's rural, white, conservative america anymore. plus, cementing our legacy. hillary clinton lands in israel. she's there to broker a truce between israel and hamas. and what could be her last big act before she leaves the stage. for now. and that was -- was this the best out of the 2012 campaign? ♪ oh beautiful for spacious skies ♪ ♪ for amber waves of grain >> the best and worst political ads and candidates coming up in the "sideshow." and let me finish with my advice for the president's second term. i think it's important for him and us. this is "hardball," the place for politics. how can you get back pain relief that lasts up to 16 hours? with thermacare heatwraps. thermacare works differently. it's the only wrap with patented heat cells that penetrate deep to relax, soothe, and unlock tight muscles. for up to 16 hours of relief, try thermacare. i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? 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