"go crawling to the federal government if you mess up "like paul gts a lot of republicans are. the federal government is the problem and not the solution. but we at "hardball" have been calling republican governors and members of congress whose districts were in irene's path. none said they plan to reject government help. seems they understand the idea that people hate the government until they need the government. plus, michele bachmann joked that irene and last week's earthquake are god's way of telling politicians to listen to the people. and pat robertson figures the quake's crack in the washington monument is a divine message. ask tougher xe questions about candidates' faith. and aren't exploding over the book, colin powell says the former vice president is like a gossip whose new book is full of cheap shots. rick perry doubles down on his claims associate security is a ponzi scheme. that may be a fine way to win tea party votes, but is this any way to run a national campaign. let me finish with the complaints that hurricane irene was overhyped. starting with the politics of the hurricane. ed rendell, former governor of pennsylvania. michael steele, former chairman of the rnc and both are msnbc political analysts. governor, start with you. a quote from lee siegal who wrote something for the "daily beast" and "newsweek." he said, after katrina our elected officials are acting responsibly by acting hysterically. is there truth in that statement? >> well, there is. look, if you're an elected official you want to err on the side of caution. want to get as many people out as you can, because you don't want to take the chance that the way these storms veered, that it veers at the last second or intensifies at the last second and peel get bound and you don't want to be responsible for any single death. better people are inconvenienced for a day moving out of an area than not. so i think governor christie, mayor bloomberg, mayor nutter, they all acted responsibly. >> if were you to grade them collectively, governor what would you be saying? >> b plus, a minus. good job. what's at fault here is the media, michael. let me explain why. there was an article by will bunch ever the "daily news" who you know is a great reporter. he quoted some weather scientist as saying by thursday we knew this hurricane was not going to be as severe as we were telling people on tv, and i thinked media has a responsibility to try to get it right. they can say, look, there's always a chance it could intensify, but you've got to tell people the truth, because the downside is, like crying wolf. the next time a situation comes around, people are going to say, i'm going to go leave. gosh, the last time they told us it was going to be so terrible it really wasn't. that's the down side to this overhype. >> michael steele, i tweeted on saturday, and i said, is it worth as a category 1 all of this reaction? i was asking the question. the response was vehement, both from those who said i agree with you asking it and others who said it's a disgrace you would even raise the question. where do we strike the right balance? that's the question. i think the governor hit it right on the head. the reality is, it rests with the leadership on the ground and every state of the union, and even down to county and local government operations. how they are coordinating, how they work together is really what matters. it doesn't matter so much whether my local reporter or the national reporter is standing out and getting blown from here to kingdom come, which i think is one of the silliest thing i've ever seen own television. than as a may, what matters is when comes to the reality of moving people and getting the help that they need, that the local, state and federal government coordinate themselves in such a way that we don't have a revisit of katrina that we have the operations in place that people can turn to do get the correct information, the updated information, and the local officials know exactly what's going on to declare an emergency when that hits, what happens, happens. in this instance, yeah, there was a lot more hype, but i think the governor is right. this was a solid b plus, a minus performance across the board from vermont all the way down to virginia. >> governor, let me ask you this question, another monday morning or monday evening question about katrina. is it hypocritical for republicans who are critiquing the size of government and constantly saying government has grown too large to now say, yes, please, i'll accept money in terms of fema relief as a result of the storm? what prompts this among other things, a "usa today" editorial saying agencies such as the geological survey and weather service are financed through the non-defense discretionary part of the federal budget, concentrated in the search for a fix to the nation's debt woeses. a neemt ask the ax wielders are hacking at their own trees? >> no question. you asked two questions. one, is it wrong for the people to criticize the federal government for being too big to take disaster relief? no. their obligation it to their citizens, number one. most governor, republicans and democrats alike take that seriously. number two, should the budget hackers all of a sudden sit up and take notice? hey, it's the weather center that allowed us to be in a position to have all of this data and evacuate what could have turned into a terrible situation. do we want to cut people from the weather center? do we want to do this? do we want to do that? you know, there are good government programs and bad wasteful government programs. and the trick, michael, is to find out the difference, and that's the trick. >> michael steele will this make it more difficult for republican critics of the size of government to mount their offenses? >> no, i don't think so, because i still see this as a little bit more apples and oranges than a one for one correlation. i think governor rendell is right. you have to look at each program and what they bring to the table. when you have a national emergency like this, everyone likes to talk about, see, if you cut this program, then, hey, we wouldn't have had the weatherman standing out in front of the storm. but the reality of it is, there's so much more that goes into those numbers than the top line wanting to cut. i think the smarter thing to do is look at what of the best services that government provides? how well, efficient and capable of they in providing -- who is given the largest benefit tra that? that should drive this, not just an arbitrary cut epa, cut the weather program, because we want to cut. i think republican leadership has at least said we want to take a strategic look at what -- what works for government versus what does government spend money on. >> also, michael, if i could interrupt quickly. the republican candidates for president have got to have is a reality check. rick perry said he promised in his opening speech, he promised voters that he would work every day to make government and inkweshl as possible in their lives. do you think any people who in the line of fire of the hurricane wanted government to be inconsequential? of course not. that's a ridiculous statement. that's a ridiculous statement. >> put it in context here, governor. i mean, i understand, yeah, if you're going to apply it to the hurricane, yeah, it's ridiculous. >> ridiculous to anything. apply it to social security. >> apply it to government that doesn't touch on the safety net. >> how about social security? >> what did i just say? >> governor perry says associate security is a ponzi scheme. >> if i could make my point and you can say whatever you want. i have my issues with social security. that aside. the broader question is, you guys tend to look at, government as this great savior of all things to people, and people don't see their government that way. they want government to be there when they need it, but in all other times they expect government to get out of their way and let government do their thing. that's the crust of the argument since 2009 and something we want in 2010. see what happens in 2012. >> let me offer a specific what the governor is saying about republicans and critique of the size of government. talk fema. weren't of the gop candidates for president, ron paul. ron paul went on the attack against fema last friday in an interview with nbc saying the following -- >> i live on the gulf coast. we put up with hurricane all the time. gag veston is in my direct, worst one, 1900. before fema, rebuilt the city, built a sea wall and survived without fema. and fema is not a good friend of most people in texas, because all they do, come in and tell you what to do, can't do, can't get in your houses and hinder the local people and they hinder volunteers from going in. so there's no magic about fema. and more people are starting to recognize that, because they are a great country, with deficit and financing and quite frankly don't have a penny in the bank. >> i aired that audio on my radio program today. half the lines illuminated from hard core gop folks who bought in entirely to what ron paul was saying. i don't know that's the kind of message that helps you in the fall. >> i don't know if it's a message that helps us in the fall moop know what's that message is going to be. there is have a lid toy what ron paul is saying. there was a time, maybe question get back to some of that, where local communities helped themselves. people came together and they provided for their own welfare after devastations like this. now, again, times have changed. the scale is much larger. the costs are much greater. you still need that help, if you can get, from sources that may include the federal government. may include state government, but i think -- i see it much more holistically than relying solely on one or the other and i understand where ron paul is coming from from a libber tarli standpoint, today requires some different than the early 1900s. >> governor rendell, does he have a point, fema-like programs encourage people to build in wraers of the country where frankly they shouldn't be doing so? >> that is correct. and programs should be, and some are. if you are in a flood lane and get hit the first time and get relief, if you build again in the flood lane you're not entitled to relief. weren't of the things the program does, try to help a person in a flood plain, whose house gets destroyed, to move to some other place and get started. but, look. the realities of life is that no one knows what's around the corner, and when disaster strikes, true disaster trikes, i believe that we ought to be there to help people. and i agree with michael. look, you're talking to somebody. you know this, michael smerconish. when i was mayor i cut the budget. when i was governor, i cut out a tremendous amount of waste in the government. i believe government spend hag to be targeted and effective. the day government is inconsequential in this country is the day this country is cooked. >> final question for both of you. it's a one-word answer, if you don't mind. does the presence of all of this extreme weather, take your pick what's gone on in the last six months or so, mean there's about to be a change with regard to global warming in the congress? will it now be taken more seriously than it has been in the past? michael steele? >> yes. >> governor rendell? >> sadly, no. >> thank you both for being here. appreciate your time. coming up, michele bachmann jokes hurricane irene is god's sign for politicians to listen to the people. isn't it time we asked presidential candidates some tough questions about faith? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. have you been thinking america will give awe government? you're right. according to a gallup poll released today, americans have a less favorable view of the government than any other industry. the first time the federal government ranked at the bottom lower than retail, electric, gas, accounting and banking just to name a few. only 17% of americans have a positive view of the government. at the top of the list with 72% positive ranking, the computer industry. we'll be right back. or the accolades. no, it was good because you told us so. the chevy model year wrap up. get in on our greatest model year yet. just announced -- celebrate labor day with an additional $500 bonus cash. with all other offers, including the all-star edition discount, that's a total value of $6,500. ♪ our greatest model year yet is wrapping up. really? 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[ female announcer ] as you get older, protein is an important part of staying active and strong. new ensure high protein... fifty percent of your daily value of protein. low fat and five grams of sugars. see? he's a good egg. [ major nutrition ] new ensure high protein. ensure! nutrition in charge! welcome back to "hardball." religion and politics aren't exactly strange bedfellows especially around election time. many of the 2012 gop front-runners take their public faith to new levels. "new york times" executive editor bill keller says candidates aren't being questioned enough about their beliefs. yesterday he wrote, when it comes to the religious beliefs of our would-be presidents we're squeamish about probing too aggressively. a sense encouraged by candidates what go goes on between a candidate is his or her god is a sensitive even privileged domain. except when it is useful for mobilizing the religious base and prying. we're joined by msnbc political analyst richard wolfe and john heilemann. you've been on the campaign trail with all of these folks. >> it's clear bill keller is right in the sense that a lot of candidates use their religious connections to, as he said, pry open people's wallets in certain religious parts of the base. that's on display in this republican primary season. it's also the case that i think more broadly that presidential contest, presidential elections, are about character to a large extent and voters want to understand what the candidates they're about to vote for or not vote for what they believe in. those candidates do put their faith as they put their families on display to try to show people who they are at a deep level. to that extent i think it is fair as keller suggests to ask certain kinds of questions about what they're beliefs are and how they bear on public policy. >> look what happens when you do that, richard wolffe. as a fox news debate, michele bachmann was asked about comment she made in the past about a wife's duty to be sub miss toiv a husband. pay attention not only to the question but the way the audience reacted. >> in 2006 when you were running for congress, you described a moment in your life when your husband said you should study for a degree and in tax law. you said you hated the idea, and then you explained "but the lord said, be submissive. wives who are to be submissive to your husbands." as president, would you be suss missive to your husband? submissive to your husband? >> what submission means to us,that's your question, it means respect. >> richard wolffe, interpreted by the audience as a cheap shot. that's what you just saw. >> the sweet irony, of course, is seeing fox news people being treated as the evil mainstream media. a tone around that debate from the audience and the candidates. questions typical of the media and priceless for them battering the media. any question is accept al. journalists have the right to ask any questions of presidential candidates or anyone in public life. the question, really, should be more i think, precisely focused about what their religion does to their positions on policy, on public affairs, on events in general, and so the question's legitimately, the attitude against it, bachmann is making pronouncements about her religion, how that affects her world view, perfectly acceptable to go after that. not because of religion, because they likebeating up on the media. >> let's watch this. maybe there's truth in jest. let's all see. >> i don't know what i have to do to get the attention of politicians. we got an earthquake. we've had a hurricane. start lining to me, here. listen to the american people, because the american people are roaring right now. because they know what needs to be done. they know that the government is on a morbid obesity diet, it's got to rein in spending. >> john heilemann is it suitable to follow-up with michele bachmann and say had you made that comment did you really believe this was some kind of a sign from god? a la pat robertson saying something about the washington monument at the end of last week? >> i do. yes. >> and people would boo and his at you like they did byron. >> our lot in life, michael, to be booed and hissed at by crowds of people. look, i think richard and i both said sort of the same thing a second ago. these views they have, the candidates have on their religious faith do and can have implications fwloor they believe about politics and policy. those thing, i think voters deserve to know the answers to. bill kellner his column suggested respectful questions that can be asked. do you believe this is a judeo-christian nigs. if so, what are the implications? any hesitance appointing a muslim to the federal bench? questions about evolution taught in the public schools? those things are not controversial in my mind whether they're legitimate questions that go to the core our faith intersects with public policy and these candidates should all have the answers on the democratic and republican side. >> we have questions on the screen, if i can put them up. do you agree with religious leaders who say america is a christian nation, or a judeo-christian sags natination does that mean in practice? what about appointing a muslim to a federal bench? i like this. what about an atheist, are there candidates, richard wolffe, who fear answering those questions on a public stage? >> you know, i find that in the elections i've covered, candidates have not been squeamish other journalists about answering questions. i actually think there's been too much focus on -- underlying question with the religion -- with awful these religious topics. which is, are these people taking orders from some kind of religious factor, cult or more broadly in church? i find that incredibly narrow minded and easy for the candidates to dodge. so whether it's mormonism. do you take your orders from a preacher or from a high archbishop, whatever it is, in actual fact, michele bachmann raised a really interesting idea there. which is that she's interpreting current events, things in the news, through a religious prism. now, that is relevant. that is a really important question of how a future president may respond to current events. that's what you're trying to assess with a campaign, where journalists should be probing for. if she thinks hurricanes are an act of god, then that might affect how she prepare for a hurricane. willfully accept that? say we're just going to take that message? that is an interesting line of attack, not whether or not they are taking orders from some priest somewhere. >> john heilemann, to go back to the second question that was suggested by bill keller. could a republican survive the primary season if they said, yes, i would appoint an atheist to the federal bench? my hunch is not. >> very difficult in today's republican party to make the case for that. although there are a couple of candidates who might well try. you can imagine perhaps someone like jon huntsman making that argument, trying to play for a more moderate flight to the republican electorate, but it would be very tough. frankly, in some of the debates, two of the debates prior to this, michael, we've seen herman cain with various view about his reluctance to have muslims with the white house. that question i think would also be really incendiary and would put, i think, some republicans into a very difficult bind if they had to answer it. >> richard, just to follow out the politics of all this. one wonders if jon huntsman and mitt romney wish to have this kind of a public discussion of their respective faiths? mitt romney more closely follows the mormon tradition than jon huntsman. maybe i'm mistaken. i don't think it bodes well for either if religious questioning plays a morinant place in the debates? >> for the general a broader public here, this is much ado made about mitt romney's speech about religion. his faith, in the last presidential cycle. to my mind he didn't go nearly far enough, again, in talking about what his faith meant to him and what mormon practice meant to him. all of those things should be on the table. opportunities to talk about our lives, our beliefs and they should take those moments and express them for themselves and for their religion . >> i agree. thank you, appreciate your time. up next, mayor michael bloomberg is getting high fives for his response to hurricane irene. no good deed goes unpunished. that's coming up on the "sideshow" you're watching "hardball," oath on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the most headroom per dollar of any car in america. the all-new nissan versa sedan from $10,990. innovation upsized. innovation for all. [ female announcer ] something unexpected to the world of multigrain... taste. ♪ delicious pringles multigrain. with a variety of flavors, multigrain pops with pringles. welcome back to "hardball." time now for the "sideshow." first up, it's nots new to launch an attack on washington in an attempt to garner support from voters especially recently. the gop candidate michele bachmann seems to taking this to a whole new level, and with a few interesting spins. just weeks ago the candidate explained that her reasoning in working for the irs was "because the first rule of war is to know your enemies." going a step further, bachmann credited define intervention towards washington for the recent earthquake and it damaging hurricane irene. questionable. and bachmann took to mocking the intelligence of her colleagues in washington. let's listen. >> i'm also privileged to sit on the permanent committee for the intelligence in the house of representatives, and i know that's odd, probably an oxymorin, how's a pubic representative -- >> what's makes her odd one out of all government employee, the whole irs plan is still a work in progress. ho who knows. former vice president cheney's memoir revealing more than a few rifts. the former vice president and his boss could not even get their pets to be on friendly terms. in the memoir, cheney recounts the time all hell broke loose when his yellow lab joined him on a retreat to camp david. no sooner had we walked inside did dave catch sight of the president's dog barney. cheney describes the hot pursuit as dave tore through the dining room determined to take down barney. in walked the president himself. after retreating to his cabin with dave, cheney recalls, i hadn't been there long. a knock at the door. the camp commander saying, mr. vice president, your dog has been banned from laurel. so much for second chances. trying to act on frustration on behalf of his owner, we're never going to know. lastly, an a for effort? mayor bloomberg may have guided new york city through hurricane irene with relative ease this past weekend but didn't think he himself would make it through unscathed, did he? throughout the weekend the mayor addressed new yorkers numerous times to update them on the coming storm, even speaking spanish to maximize the amount of people that got the right information. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> all right. add merable, yes, but safe to say room for improvement with the spanish and it didn't go unnoechted. so much so a fake twitter accounter was created to mock the mayor's subpar linguistics. an example, how about this? >> in the end, the fake twitter account garnered 10,000 followers over the course of 64 tweets. pretty funny stuff. coming up, they're back. dick cheney went after colin powell. so now colin powell is going after him. that's next. you're watching "hardball." only on msnbc. 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[ male announcer ] with interactive learning solutions from dell, mrs. davis can make every student feel like her only student. dell. the power to do more. good afternoon, everyone. i'm grad goode with your cnbc market wrap. a rally of relief, hurricane irene causes far less damage than fear. a triple digit move climbing 254 points. the s&p climbing 33 and the nasdaq soared for 82 points pap broad based rally led by insurers as analysts estimate liability ands ds billion, $3 billion, far less than the $6 billion paid out in the wake of harry contain iz bem in 2003. oil prices rose in the stronger reef bound in consumer spending. demand more if you cars. and sitting pretty, an 18% jump in coffee prices over the last two weeks spurs rest in its single serves k cups. prices for. hemy moch manies rose for the third day in arow after being sagment the last three months. and a blood thinner co-developed for strokes outperformed expect atss in a reevlt study. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." if if you watched anything on television this weekend other than the coverage of harry contain irene you probably noticed the re-emergence of both former president george w. bush and his vice president dick chain cheney. joins me fou nor a postgame wrap-up of the bush administration intramurals, lynn sweet and david corn an msnbc political analyst. allow me to say first what dick cheney said in his memoir. the former vice president said he hoped powell would be success 238 at secretary of state but disappointed by powell's terms and abcs and wrote, as though he felt the proper way to express his views was by criticizing administration policy to people outside the government. and what president bush accepted powell's resignation i thought it was for the best. so now colin powell hit back yesterday in an appearance on cbs's "face the nation." he takes issue with the former vice president's portrayal of condoleezza rice and himself. let's listen. >> while he's taken -- taken the same shots at condi, almost condescending tone she tearfully did this or that. nothing wrong with saying she disagreed, but not necessary to try to pump a book up saying heads will be exploding. i think dick overshot the runway with that kind of caught up. >> lynn sweet, what's the origin of the rift between these two? >> oh, deep differences over the execution of the run-up to the iraq war, plus the rule of the state department and defense department. it you're taking in condoleezza rice during that time. so that -- know, they have had bad blood before it had been submerged in the years and, of course, the book comes out. now, the way that powell reacted to it, i would think is something that the vice president could have anticipated, yet when jamie gangel asked him about whether or not, you know, he even would have hurt president bush's feelings in the way he taked about him, he said, no. maybe he doesn't count reaction? >> does it stem in part from colin powell thinking he was hng out to dry with the presentation he played to the u.n. security council by individuals who were massaging the iraq data? >> well, i don't mean to interrupt, but in the book i did with michael isikoff a few years ago we quoted powell as being very upset. you know, he carries his burden that he was the only guy who put that statement out. he said, listen, it wasn't just me. it was bush. it was the vice president, but everyone always points to colin powell. he gave that u.n. speech, and so he's very embittered about that, and i think he holds it against dick cheney who is pushing the intelligence establishment to come up with any iota of evidence to back up his hyperbowl eck claims about iraq's wmds. >> is it partially, lynn, david, is it partially now vice president cheney looks at secretary of state colin powell as a turncoat for embracing president barack obama in the last cycle? >> basically called him a traitor, but from the political perspective, i think any time dick cheney is on tv, it's a good day for the democrats. you know, in poll after poll after poll, people still blame bush and cheney more than barack obama and joe biden for the bad economic mess we're having today. anytime dick cheney is out there, even to sell books, it's a reminder of the bad old days and colin powell looks good if he's attacking dick cheney and there's nothing dick cheney can say now that will redeem his representation and george bush with the american public. >> you mentioned the nbc news interview with jamie gangel, and the decision to go into iraq is sharply differ from the one offered by his boss, president bush. let me play this for you. >> president bush writes, i turned to the team gathered in the oval office and said, let's go. you write, the president kicked everyone else out of the oval office, looked at me and said, dick, what could you think we ought to do? >> that's the way i recall it. >> lynn sweet, reacted to what you just heard? >> gets the story straight pup don't know. we weren't there. you have two of the principals in the room. i wish we had the video or audiotapes to straighten this out. something about the bad old days. we don't know. i think until one really goes through all the books and does more interviews as time goes on to see if there's any way of being more conclusive about this fact, it's what it -- you know, somebody telling history. what the former vice president is trying to do though, mike, is set the stage for history. not so much whether or not there's a spat on the sunday shows or this week or next with colin powell. you know, this book is not a -- it is to advise history, one other thing is, not only a record that he's laying down in his book. these interviews themself. what he did with nbc. what he'll do tomorrow on fox, on his book tour, these parallel history. all of these interview are part of the record. >> if indeed he's telling the truth, the interesting thing about this discrepancy, so happens, coincidentally, i'm sure, in cheney's account, he's the central figure in the decision. not the president. but the president asks him, what should happen. and the president's account, it's more of a group endeavor. but the central truth is that they both agreed on the fact that they ought to grease they're way to war with hyperbolic statements about iraq's wmds. whoever said, yeah, let's go. let's roll. that is large lly inconsequenti to the big roos told in kicking off the war. >> i was intrigued by the national geographic interview with w i watched. weren't of the interesting footnotes to the september 11th chronology, between them, who was it that gave the order to take down a civilian airliner that would remain in airspace and be unresponsive, bush said he was the one that had given that order. flight 93, he learned of the crash, he thought perhaps it had been shots oust sky based on his order. i've read to read the cheney book but an anxious to see if there's a different account who gave the order on the morning of september 11th. >> i would be freinterested in that, too. the national geographic interview was taped before the book was out. doesn't seem to be the former vice president sent over a draft for bush to look at ahead of time. so, right. we'll be looking at these discrepancies. as david points out, these are din tindistinction, but any sta difference? >> the criticism of president bush having remained in the florida classroom for far too long reading aloud. the book was "my pet goat." he explained himself last night. here wrap he said. >> my first reaction was anger. who the hell would do that to america? and then immediately focused on the children, and the contrast between the notion of attack and the innocence of children clarified my job. and that's to protect people. instantly after that the press corps started getting the calls, getting the same message i got. which meant that a lot of people would be watching my reactions to this crises. so i made the decision not to jump up immediately. now, i didn't want to -- in the classroom i didn't want to rattle the kids. i wanted to project a sense of calm. >> there's a lot about which you can criticize the president. a cheap shot at those who isolated, ran a stop watch how long to react to the that moment. quick response. >> at that point in time, he had no idea what the nature of the attack was. whether it was two plane, four, 16. whether they were dirty bomb. other things that would happen. listen, it's not too hard to stand up if you're the president of the united states and say, excuse me. something's come up. i have to attend to it. i'll come back later to finish the book. >> right. not as if he was in the back of the classroom and throttled the guy right there. >> you don't know what was about to happen. it was the wrong decision. not the worst he made in this presidency, but i don't think it was the right decision. >> thank you both. we're limited on time, can you all see jamie gangel's interview with dick cheney tonight at 10:00 eastern on your local nbc station on "dateline." and a ponzi scheme, atta attacking the most popular program ever. is that the way to win a national election? this is "hardball" only on msnbc. president obama is society to dliv e a new jobs program next week. he named alan krooger as the next economic adviser. with the nation's unemployment stuck above 9%, he expects krueger to provide him with guidance, not partisan political advice. we'll be right back. also get a free flight. you know that comes with a private island. really? no. it comes with a hat. you see, airline credit cards promise flights for 25,000 miles, but... 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let me show you both what he wrote in the book. perry writes ponzi schemes like the one that send bernard madoff to prison are illegal in this country for a reason. they're fraudulent systems designed to take in a lot of money at the frond and pay out none in the end. of social secu. i can hear them cheering in primaries but in general election turning away from that message. >> it is a problem. i think the way he is phrasing this is a problem. i think people in general can be sold a message that there is nothing for social secure for this generation but that is not now this is framed. this is compared as bernie madoff, as you noted. this may not necessarily play in iowa but this is providing a ton of opposition research for democrats in the general. >> wayne, did he know he was running for president when he wrote that book? usually writing a such a book is a precursor to throwing your hat in the ring. i'm not so sure that's the way it happened in governor perry's case. >> he did not know he was good og run for president when he wrote the book. he wrote the book last year. it was publish bed nine, ten months ago. in fact when it came out, he told me and other reporters here in austin, this is he evidence that i'm not going to run for president. if i were going to run for president, i wouldn't say these kinds of things. real candidate for the white house. so he didn't think he was going to run for president. he laid down the marker. he was going to be the big strong republican voice against washington and the barack obama admin station. and now a few months later be we is running for president and has to either face the music for try to disown what he said. >> wayne, one follow-up with you if i may, has he always been a 10th amendment guy? states rights not enumerated to the federal government? >> not in the way he does now. he is a conservative guy and obviously the tenth amendment is important and in part of what he said. but he is on the tenth amendment only recently, only before the 2009 rejs legislative session. we saw it several times with rick prry, that he is very good at judging the political environment and adjusting accordingly. >> maggie, i'm sure the read the front page, there were a couple of things noted that running against the size of government. he used 17 billion in stimulus money. he accepted a million dollar federal grant related carrying out. is this going to catch up with him sooner or later that he is accepting on one hand and being critical on the other? >> absolutely. i think if his rivals frame it correctly that he is not what he seems to be, it could hurt him going forward. what he has going for him is early state caucus goers and voters look at him and think, he is what he says he is. he is ehe is not lashl blank slate. they don't know much about him. they will learn a lot going forward. i think that's why it is such a question for mitt romney own democrats of how soon do you go on the air with attack ads? the time will run out where he does start defining himself and the stories like the new york times story are a pretty good roadmap for that. >> wayne slader, the best thing he has going for him is his resem blins to outsiders from your staple to george w. bush and the worst thing has going for him in a general election is george w. bush. >> that's absolutely right. i know they are worried about this on the inside. that's part of the reason, if you read the book, "fed up", he is saying in there all the places on fiscal policy where he differs sharply from george w. bush pch bush spent to much money. not a fiscal conservative. so what perry is going to have to do, enhe is playing a primary game right now, pale to the primary voters, if he get the nomination, it is how can he pivot and emphasize he is not george w. bush in a general election. >> wayne slater and maggie haberman, thanks for joining us on "hardball." >> thank you. >> when we return, was irene worthy of the treatment she received? 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nobody wants a replay of katrina. if we found the alarm and it doesn't pan out, next time it will be treated like the boy who cried wolf. yet, if we don't sound the alarm, we chart a path that will most certainly lead to death and destruction. everybody has a job to do where there is darkness on the horizon. forecasters have to make predictions. media has it tell us what the fo