Individual whos talking about shutting down the government. Im well aware of the deadline. So are my colleagues. They cant lead their caucus to a deal. Anything that is remotely associated with me, they feel obliged to oppose. In an interview that aired this morning, president obama talked about everything from syria to congress, the constitution and his assessment of our economy. Five years after the financial crisis. The president sat down with Abcs George Stephanopoulos on friday before the breakthrough u. S. russian deal on syrias chemical weapons. Of course, the president had some interesting things to say about his counterpart in moscow. I dont think that mr. Putin has the same values that we do. And i think obviously by protecting mr. Assad, he has a different attitude about the assad regime. But what ive also said to him directly is that we both have an interest in preventing chaos. We both have an interest in preventing terrorism. The situation in syria right now is untenable. It remains to be seen whether those common interests will be enough to sustain a partnership between the two countries and two leaders with a notoriously strained relationship. The diplomatic twostep continues this week with secretary kerry meeting with u. S. Allies in paris tomorrow. Also tomorrow, the u. N. Releases its report on the august 21st chemical attack that set everything in motion. Its expected to support what the Obama Administration has alleged all along. That assad was responsible for killing more than 1,000 of his own people. Joining me now to discuss is democratic senator bob casey of pennsylvania. Thank you so much, senator, for joining me. Thanks, karen. Good to be with you. Senator, id like to start by getting your reaction to the deal thats been announced over the weekend. I know at one point you were sort of skeptical that a diplomatic solution had, perhaps, like a 50 50 shot of actually being effective . Yeah. Im still skeptical. But this is certainly encouraging news when you consider if its fully implemented and effectuated over a long period of time, months, really, that you would have the result being the removal of all chemical weapons from syria. Something no one was even contemplating not only a week ago, but certainly months ago. The result could be good. Could be the best, really, result. But heres the problem. Its very difficult to achieve this. There are major challenges. I think were going to know frankly within days, maybe at this time next week, depending on what mr. Assad does in terms of giving us an inventory of all the chemical weapons, the agents, the munitions, the research and production facilities, all of that detail for what the published reports say are 45 sites in about 1,000 tons of this. So its a very difficult assignment for the weapons inspectors. But the pressure and the responsibility now is on russia and the Syrian Regime. They have to deliver. Were going to know, i think, in a week whether or not they can deliver. Senator, one of the things we noticed is it did not take long for some of your colleagues from the other side of the aisle to already criticize this deal. Senator mccain this morning said its a loser. That doesnt seem to help the process. As you say, weve got to at least, i think, give it a few days to see what happens and to see if assad and the russians start to meet their end of the bargain. It doesnt seem to be helpful to have that kind of criticism right out of the gate. I think what were going to see, though, now that this is operative and its moving, the next part of this, of course, will be to get a u. N. Security Council Resolution and begin to do the work that our government has to do to make it move forward. But i think youre going to see much more of a consensus as we go down the road as it relates to this part of it. The next part of this, as it relates to syria policy, now that this part is on a different track, is what do we do about the overall conflict. And i would i would argue that were already there in terms of choosing a side. The question is are we going to support the opposition more robustly or not . I think that senator mccain has actually been been more constructive than some other republicans. Thats true. Its interesting when you hear from some republicans who said last week that they were 100 against a strike. They wanted tip lo eed diplomac. Now that diplomacy is under way the same republicans say its not going to work. At least in the case of john mccain hes been constructive in trying to get everyone in the same room. Even though he tends to be critical of the administration. I want to switch gears just a little bit. Part of the calculation that the president talked about this morning as you were saying sort of in terms of the regional players is iran. We learned this morning in the interview that he did with Abcs George Stephanopoulos that hes actually been in what he would call indirect contact with the leader of iran. Weve got some sound on that. I want to hear from the president and then some different ideas from senator Lindsey Graham and john mccain. Then well talk about it on the other side. I think the iranians, who we communicate with in indirect ways. Have you reached out personally to the new president . I have. Hes reached out to me. We havent spoken directly. Letters. Yeah. Use of force resolution allowing our country to use military force as a last resort to stop the Iranian Nuclear program to make sure they get a clear signal that all this debacle called syria doesnt mean were confused about iran. So, senator, i want to get your take with regard to iran and the role that iran seems to be playing in this moving forward. Well, i think thats one of the reasons why i think we have to continue to make sure that the Syrian Regime and the Iranian Regime know that the credible use of force is Still Available to the president. I do think as much as theres been discord in voices on some of this, theres a i think a fairly strong, unanimous consensus that iran obtaining Nuclear Weapons capability is something weve got to work to prevent. And thats i think thats both democrat and republican in a broad based consensus. This syrian policy, i think, affects that ultimately. I would argue iran is a threat even without the Nuclear Capability they seek to obtain. If you look at some of the things that have played out in the last couple of years, either the Iranian Regime on their own or allied with hezbollah, they plot against us and weve got to be vigilant about their threat. Senator, if i may, id like to switch gears and talk about the financial crisis. We know that the president is going to give an address tomorrow from the rose garden. Its five years since the crash happened, if you will. As we learned last week, it appears, you know, banks are doing fine. Theyre strong. Ceos are fine. Their numbers are strong. Were seeing, you know, that 1 doing quite well. But it just has not made its way yet to the middle class in the way that i think a lot of people believe that it should. I know you supported stimulus in the beginning. Im wondering what your thoughts are on what we need to do now to try to ensure that we speed up the recovery, if you will. Its a great question, karen. Because i think in some ways its been left unaddressed. I dont think either party has done enough to make the case that the question of jobs and the wage loss of the middle class is still the number one economic challenge we face. Weve got to put more tools on the table to jump start the economy. We had a payroll tax cut in 2011 and 2012. I thought we should have put that in place for a third year because of the jump starting jobs impact. Without Something Like that operative and moving, i think we should try a hiring credit. So if you hire you get 10 tax credit. We should focus on the plight of the middle class. Which even predated the downturn of 07, 08 and 09. Its made ever worse by the numbers that were seeing today. Were getting job growth, but not at a fast enough clip. Not enough momentum yet. All right. Thank you so much for your time today, senator bob casey of pennsylvania. Thanks, karen. At this hour we continue to watch the devastating storms that are sweeping colorado. The confirmed death toll there stands at four with another two people assumed dead. Nearly 500 people unaccounted for. President obama whos already declared a state of emergency called governor Don Hickenlooper today to receive an update on the situation and, of course, expressed his concern for the colorado citizens. Please visit redcross. Org to find out how you can help. Msnbc will continue to bring the details of this historic flooding as they unfold. Later in this hour, congressman john lewis on the 50th anniversary of the birmingham bombing. And what kind of reception is secretary kerry getting in israel today . Thats coming up. We need a word for when you change your mind because obama has agreed with you. We came up with this word. It should be in the dictionary. Blacktrack. With the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his Small Business. Take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorns Small Business earns double miles on every purchase every day. Produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less . Ahh, oh [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. Heres your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark Business Card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. Choose double miles or 2 cash back on every purchase every day. Whats in your wallet . [ crows ] now wheres the Snooze Button . Car Insurance Companies say theyll save you by switching, youd have, like, a ton of dollars. But how are they saving you those dollars . A lot of Companies Might answer um or no comment. Then theres esurance. Born online, raised by technology and majors in efficiency. So whatever they save, you save. Hassle, time, paperwork, hairtearing out, and, yes, especially dollars. Esurance. Insurance for the modern world. Now backed by allstate. Click or call. All your important legal matters in just minutes. Protect your family. And launch your dreams. At legalzoom. Com we put the law on your side. The ongoing conflict in syria has enormous the fact of weapon of mass destruction having been used. Against the people of their own state. These are crimes against humanity. They cannot be tolerated and they are a threat to the capacity of the Global Community to be able to live by standards of rules of law. That was secretary of state john kerry speaking today in jerusalem after meeting with israeli president benjamin netanyahu. Its part of the administrations diplomatic push to make the proposed disposal of syrias chemical weapons a reality. While kerry heads to paris where hell meet tomorrow with Foreign Ministers from france, the uk and saudi arabia, reports of ongoing violence inside syria raised questions about the assad regimes willingness to cooperate with the International Community. Joining me now to discuss the reaction in the region, nbcs m ayman mo ha deen. We hear on the one sense the rebels from their perspective, this doesnt really solve their problem. Theyre not particularly pleased with it. Many are skeptical of assad. Many sort of regular syrians. Because in the past they believe, you know, hes been a liar. Theyve heard this before. They dont necessarily think things reporter come out and said this was a victory to avert a war. It was a major breakthrough for peace in the region, if you will. More importantly for the United States in the sense that it has backed down from what they describe as a possible aggression against the syrian people. Nonetheless, there are those here across the region, particularly the Syrian Opposition, who are really set back by all of the developments of the last two weeks. About a possible military strike that could have weakened the regime. Now this agreement that in some ways almost kind of puts president Bashar Al Assad in power for at least the next year. That is at least what one opposition syrian described it to me. He said that by having this agreement that effectively allows the Syrian Government to dismantle its chemical weapons by the middle of next year, youve almost locked the Syrian Government into this International Agreement or International Frame work thatll even make it more difficult to have calls for the president to step down or to have regime change. Nonetheless, the Syrian Opposition is calling on not only the ban of chemical weapons by the syrian reyeem, but more importantly for the International Community to impose a no fly zone in the northern part of the country and to also ban the use of Ballistic Missiles and weapons that are being used by the Syrian Regime against the opposition and the syrian rebels. They are looking at this as an opportunity. Theyre trying to spin it in their favor by saying this is a first step. Its a good step because it does at least prevent the use of chemical weapons. But it must be expanded to include other types of weapons that the regime is using against its own people. Ayman, to that point we heard reports today that the russians, while were moving forward on removing chemical weapons, may actually be rearming or bringing in more conventional weapons to the assad regime. To the point the rebels are making, that really doesnt go to solving the underlying problem. It takes out one kind of weaponry but replaces it with yet another. Reporter well, yeah. That has been one of the criticisms of the way the u. S. Has handled this. Or at least some of the arguing points against the u. S. And International Community. Yes, they were very concerned about the use of chemical weapons, that 1,400 people by u. S. Estimates were killed in that chemical weapons attack back on august 21st. By the overwhelming majority, the 100,000plus people that have been killed over the course of the last two years have been killed by conventional weapons. And theres not enough being done to stop the use of these conventional weapons. Part of that is because you have countries like russia who are standing by the Syrian Regime, still supplies it with arms. More importantly, you also have some of the regional countries and players here including hezbollah and lebanon sending fighters, sending weapons as well as iran who have also come out and publicly stated that they are supporting the regime. Given the fact that you have an influx of weapons coming into syria from all sides, really, including the saudis and qatarries helping the rebels, you can understand why people are concerned the developments of this past week are not enough to stop the violence. Steve, to you. Theres obviously been quite a bit of criticism, not surprisingly, of the president. One point that was made was that actually president obama, this may be, you know, a genius sort of move in that you now have a situation where putin owns this process. And whether it, you know, fails or moves forward, he will really has really put himself out there on the international stage. And that that actually, while some see that as a negative to obama, it actually could end up being a positive. Look, this is showing a very mature president. He may be a lucky mature president whos just fine with another world leader getting a bit of spotlight, being allowed to strut his stuff. Therefore being accountable. We cant have a world where the United States and russia are permanently divided on all things. There are too many major challenges out there in the International System that are going to require cooperation and collaboration between russia and the United States. In this particular case, as unlikely as it is, Vladimir Putin is the one. It has given president obama, i think, a very big potential win if this syria deal on chemical weapons really comes through. When you look at the region, you know, i think everything that ayman said is absolutely right. You may end up with the opposition in syria basically routed by the regime. You know, israel doesnt really want to see islamic radicals running syria. You may have a weaker, degraded syria Still Holding in place in the region largely like it looks today. Steve, i mean, you know, lets talk about what happens next. Youve obviously had a number of different conversations with, you know, folks on all sides of this. Obviously secretary kerry is trying to get support from our allies. Weve got the u. N. Meeting beginning this week here in new york. What will it take to ensure that this process keeps moving forward and also how are we going to be able to verify . Theres been a lot of conversation about this trust but verify. But i havent heard much in the way of details in terms of how we will actually be able to verify that the syrians are making good on the deal thats been cut. Everyone should be skeptical. But the key element is that john kerry and Sergey Lavrov agreed that those inspectors and those responsible for dealing with a chemical weapons inside syria will have chapter 7 authority which means the threat of use of force behind them. The reason i think barack obama kicked this into the congress was that he felt that there wasnt a lot of, you know, instruments out there endorsing or legit mating the move he was going to make. If theres an agreement in the u. N. Security council of chapter 7 authority behind it and if the syrians begin to wriggle or slip away or not cooperate, its very easy to see without congressional authorization president obama taking immediate military action because he will have in hand what he didnt have before. Which is a u. N. Security Council Resolution authorizing use of force. I think thats a very big game changer in this equation. All right. Thank you to Ayman Mohyeldin and steve clemmons. Next, the president tells Speaker Boehner to stand up to his partys fringe. Thats coming up. If that president is in a situation in which each time the United States is called upon to pay its bills, the other party can simply sit there and say, well, were not going to pay the bills unless you give us what we want, that changes the constitutional structure of this government entirely. Is this the bacon and cheese diet . This is the creamy chicken corn chowder. I mean, look at it. So indulgent. Did i tell you i am on the. [ both ] Chicken Pot Pie diet me too [ male announcer ] so indulgent, youll never believe theyre light. 100calorie progresso light soups. I dont miss out. You sat out most of our game yesterday asthma doesnt affect my job. You were out sick last week. My asthma doesnt bother my family. You coughed all through our date night i hardly use my rescue inhaler at all. What did you say . How about every day . Coping with asthma isnt controlling it. 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[ male announcer ] bobs heart attack didnt come with a warning. Today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. If youve had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. When it comes to budgets, weve never had a situation in which a party said that, you know, unless we get our way 100 , then were going to let the United States default. That was the president on offense this morning trying to get ahead of what will be another week occupied by, you guessed it, a manufactured republican crisis. Their effort to shut down the government. Hell make his case tomorrow, as he marks the fifth anniversary of the financial crisis. On wednesday hell deliver remarks to the business round table. All that as Republican House leaders, if you can call them that, try to rein in their tea party friends. Something they failed at this week when Speaker John Boehner and majority leader eric cantor tried to convince them to pass a spending bill. That left obama care intact. It was texas senator ted cruz who called that plan chicanery. Congressman Jason Chaffets called it hocus pocus. Joining me now is associate editor of the the hill amy stoddard. Msnbc contributor james peterson. Thanks to you both. Thanks, karen. I want to start with you. It strikes me weve had syria kind of playing itself out. Last week we did see the beginnings, again, of the drama that we were really expecting to kick off is fall. That is obviously this question about the debt ceiling and shutting down the government. It strikes me that the president is trying to go on offense and get ahead of what he knows, i think, and what we all can see is going to be another kind of messy week, messy messaging from the republicans this week on capitol hill. But do you think its going to work . Well, i mean, its one thing for president obama to say this wasnt the way it used to be and its not the way it should be. All this Political Polarization can bring the greatest nation on earth to the brink of default and hold global markets, you know, in its palm while these fights continue to the 11th hour. And threaten our, you know, Credit Ratings and everything like that. But the truth is things have changed. And its its a good goal that he wants to go back to the days when this didnt happen. After 2011 july and we were at right at the brink passing that deal on august 2nd, that then created a supercommittee that then failed that then brought the sequester that people are still trying to block, it really is things are different now. Now what we thought was going to happen was that the Republican Leaders would find a way to pass a really quick, shortterm spending bill that would get us till december. Because the receipts were looking so good coming into the government, because of the sequester and the tax hike of january 1, that we were going to not have this fight till december. Now the administration has warned congressional leaders that this is actually happening in midoctober. All the sudden they have five legislative days to figure it out. You are right, john boehner has no idea how hes going to get through this. I dont think that president obama really can say were not going to negotiate. If you look at Public Opinion polls, the majority of americans dont want to raise the debt ceiling. They do believe in a formula of commensurate spending cuts with, you know, with the same ratio as the increase in the debt ceiling. That part is where republicans believe that they have the public will on their side. The defund obama care and shut the government down, you know, if we dont is not going to work. Republicans in leadership will tell you its not going to work. Thats what theyre fighting with conservatives about now. The debt ceiling thing is not something president obama can actually believe that he can walk away from simply because default is too frightening. To that point, james, i think the president , hes also got a couple of other things on his mind. We saw the reports last week that indicate as the president has talked about, the recovery is not reaching enough of american citizens. And the middle class and working people. Right . Its the 1 is doing fine. The banks are doing fine. Thats right. We saw some poll numbers that suggest that his support on his handling of the economy is actually waning. But i think when then when you are up against a Republican Caucus that says delay obama care, which we also know majority of americans dont necessarily favor that, how can he possibly give away his most valuable negotiating chip which is to say im not going to negotiate with you over the, you know, raising of the debt ceiling, more the shutting down of the government because its not the way its ever been done before . Thats not the way we do things. Yeah. I mean, and its maybe it makes sense in some sort of political back room where people are afraid of being out flanked by tea party challengers. But in the real world, no. This kind of playing politics with the debt ceiling doesnt make sense. I dont really trust the polls. I know we use polls a lot here. Youve got to be careful with polls. They can be worded in certain ways that folk may not really understand exactly what the debt ceiling means and what the debt ceiling battle actually means. Because its really about paying our bills. Its not about necessarily increased spending. When you look across this economy, when you take a look at the fact that out of those 7. 5 million jobs that the president s touting this morning, you know, about 1 million of those jobs are manufacturing and auto. But a lot of those jobs are parttime jobs. A lot of those jobs are, like, fast food jobs. Whats missing from this recovery is the kind of infrastructure spending, the kind of robust Government Support of important infrastructure and rebuilding of america thats been a part of every recovery in the history of this country. Thats whats missing here. Thats really where we need to continue to push this fight. The debt ceiling to me is kind of a distraction from what the real challenges are around this economy. I hope that the president will continue to push the envelope with republicans and with members of congress so we can actually get to the real work of making sure that were creating jobs in this economy. Not just on the private side, but also on the public side. Guys, i also thought, weve got some sound from the president earlier today in this interview that he did where he was talking about the tea party. I do think that it was wise of him to i dont think most people understand what really happens when the debt ceiling goes up or down. They get what Government Shutdown means to them in their lives. I thought from the president s perspective trying to sort of reframe this and simplify this conversation in terms of how unprecedented it is, how this is not the way the constitution is supposed to work, thats something i think ordinary americans, everybody can kind of understand what that means. Lets take a listen to the president and i want to get your reaction. The problem we have is we have a faction of the Republican Party in the house of representatives in particular that view compromise as a dirty word. And anything that is even remotely associated with me, they feel obliged to oppose. Quickly i want to get both of your response. A. B. , what do you have . You have members republican members of the house saying what we really need is a 42nd vote against obama care. Wait. Karen, theres a difference between a vote to what Republican Leadership wants is to ask in exchange for a the administration has given a year delay to businesses for the employer mandate. The Business Community asked for that. Well, theyre arguing that americans should not be forced on january 1 to go to an exchange and find, you know, health care that may no longer be provided by their employer. They might find its actually more expensive than what they had before with higher deductibles and less coverage. Thats actually something that Many Americans are anxious about. Its why obama care is only looking at 39 approval in the polls. Thats the corner of the leadership thinks they really would have the president in. They know the Defund Movement which is different than delay is unrealistic. It wouldnt work. And that a majority of americans put in polls dont want it to be defunded or entirely repealed. Also i think you know, this was a clever shift. Theyve gone from, again, shutdown, which i think the republicans recognized they would have taken a big hit on that. To a message that outilizes the debt ceiling which more people dont fully understand. Theyve gone from defund to delay. It still has that feeling of desperation that, you know, once we hit october 1st and the program really comes online, the more people in the system, the more its working, the more president obama gets credit and it feels like that is the one thing the republicans feel like they cannot have happen. We unfortunately are to leave it there. I want to thank a. B. Stoddard and james pettersson. Thanks, karen. Next, 50 years after racing to the scene of the Birmingham Church bombing, congressman john lewis joins us live to reflect on the impact of the loss of four innocent children. And what impact that had on the movement. Hat the reason were always stopping is because i have to go to the bathroom. And when were sitting in traffic, i worry ill have an accident. Be right back. So today, im finally going to talk to my doctor about Overactive Bladder symptoms. [ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling . Ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. One toviaz pill a day significantly reduces sudden urges and accidents for 24 hours. If you have certain stomach problems or glaucoma, or cannot empty your bladder, you should not take toviaz. Get emergency medical help right away if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. Toviaz can cause blurred vision, dizziness, drowsiness, and decreased sweating. Do not drive, operate machinery or do unsafe tasks until you know how toviaz affects you. The most common side effects are dry mouth and constipation. [ susan ] today, im visiting my son without visiting every single bathroom. [ female announcer ] today, talk to your doctor about toviaz. In birmingham today, Church Bells Rang at the 16th Street Baptist Church at 10 22 a. M. Central time, marking the moment 50 years ago when four young girls were killed in a racist bombing. September 15th, 1963, was a sunday just like today. The girls were in the basement preparing for youth service. 11yearold Denise Mcnear had just asked 14yearold addy may collins to help her tie her belt when a box of dynamite went off under the church steps, blowing a hole in the churchs rear wall and destroying all but one of the stained glass windows. It was the fourth bombing in birmingham in four weeks. It was meant to send a message. Birmingham city schools had been integrated by National Guards men just a few days earlier. Only a week before the church bombing, governor George Wallace said New York Times in the alabama could stop integration with a few, quote, first class funerals, unquote. The governor tried to walk that back after the bombing by adding to the reward for the killers. Martin luther king told him in a telegram that, quote, the blood of four little children is on your hands. Your irresponsible and misguided actions have created in birmingham and alabama the atmosphere that has induced continued violence and now murder. Y justice came slowly with the last bomber not being convicted until 2002. These murders were part of a nexus of events that pushed Civil Rights Movement forward. Martin luther king had delivered his i have a dream speech less than three weeks earlier. Me medger evers has been murdered just that previous june. Poll taxes were outlawed. The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964. Congressman john lewis was in birmingham that day in 1963 as the head of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. He returned there this week after he and the Congressional Black Caucus awarded the girls the congressional medal of honor. He joins me now. Congressman lewis, its an honor to have you with me. Thank you very much, karen. Thank you for having me. To hear you make the statement, it just reminded me of what happened in birmingham 50 years ago. And its still hard to believe that it did happen. But it did happen. You know, congressman, can you for those who dont know, talk a little bit about the significance of the 16th Street Baptist Church. It was a very intentional target of those bombings. The 16th Street Baptist Church was the meeting place. It was where many of the mass meetings were held during the spring of 1963. And many of the young people, especially the students, would gather at 16th Street Baptist Church along with the adults. And lead the church in an orderly, peaceful, nonviolent fashion. To march the steps through a park to make it downtown. And it was in the park across the street from the church that they used the dogs, the fire hoses, on little children and women. The power of the fire hoses was so strong, it would knock bark off of the trees. It would literally pick up people and drop them. It was it was unreal. Unbelievable. It was just a vicious act on the part of the commissioner of public safety, eugene connor. Congressman, i know youve share sd so many of your experiences from that period. Its my understanding you arrived in birmingham a short period of time after the bombing. I wonder if you could tell us kind of what your thoughts were when you arrived and the experiences that you had in the days that followed. Well, i arrived there only about four hours after the bombing. And stood across the street, directly from the church. And i met my friend and my colleague from the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, julian bond. And we just stood there. Not saying a word. It was just hard for us to believe what had happened. But we made a decision. Those of us in the movement. Not just the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee members. Not just the young people, the young activists. To intensify our efforts, to go into selma, alabama. To go deeper into the state of mississippi and fight for the right to vote. We had attended the funerals of the four little girls. And weve heard dr. King deliver the wruljy. We had to act. We had to move. We could not let the bombing of the church that took the lives of these four little girls stop a Nonviolent Movement for the right to vote and to end discrimination and segregation throughout the south. One of the things you have done that i think is really incredible to bring this story of the movement to a younger generation, because theres obvious so many lessons, particularly the lesson of nonviolence and what it means to really live in a nonviolent way to this younger generation. Particularly as were at a time when were still fighting for jobs. Were still fighting poverty. So many of the issues. So the graphic novel, many people may not know. But you are publishing a series of graphic novels. The first one march was out earlier this year. You actually went to comiccon. I understand you meant lou ferigno, the hulk, while you were there. Sounds incredibly fun. The second one i understand comes out in the fall. Talk about why you wanted to do these graphic novels. Well, i wanted to do this book, a graphic novel called march, book one. And there will be a book two. Then a book three. To try to dramatize it with the illustrator nate powell. This gifted artist. Make it real. Make it come alive. And with the help of my cowrit cowriter, its a beautiful book. Its doing very, very well. A lot of young people, a lot of students, high school teachers, College History professors are reading it. Theyre telling their students to read it. To get people to understand and saying to another generation, you, too, can get involved in bringing about change. And saying to people, dont be afraid. Use the way of peace. The way of love. The way of nonviolence. Congressman lewis, thank you so very much for joining us today. Thank you. Coming up next, a 501c6 . A new class of weapons and the money raised for Campaign Cash. How the coke brothers refuse to take defeat sitting down. Thats coming up. No two people have the same financial goals. Pnc investments works with you to understand yours and helps plan for your retirement. Talk to a pnc investments Financial Advisor today. You feel. Squeezed. Congested. Beat down. Crushed. 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Earlier this week politico broke news about the billionaire Koch Brothers and their super secret conservative group which pumped hundred of millions of dollars into the 2012 election cycle. How did they do it without anyone noticing . The 501c6. According to politico the Group Freedom partners and its president mark short serve as an outlet for the ideas and funds of the mysterious Koch Brothers cutting checks as large as 63 million to groups promoting conservative causes. According to an irs document to be filed shortly. Heres what we know about freedom partners. There are roughly 200 donors each paying at least 100,000 in annual dues. It raised 256 million after its creation in 2011. And made grants of 236 million during the last election cycle. So wheres all that money going . Well, heres a list of the various groups that have been identified as receiving money from freedom partners. Among them, the nra and americans for prosperity. What do the billionaire brothers have to say for themselves . According to to a statement on kochfacts. Com freedom partners a nonprofit, nonpartisan Business League that promotes the benefits of free markets and a free society. Okay. Joining me now to discuss the various layers of secrecy, Washington PostPolitical Columnist dana milbank and salon. Coms katie mcdonough. Dana, i want to start with you. Weve talked many times about the Campaign Cash wars. I didnt really even know what a 501c6 was. Right . We have a definition from the irs. But basically that definition, i think, boils down to another way to write a big check to a group that can then give money to a cause you care about. Or campaign. Yeah. I guess you could sort of think of it as the Bernie Madoff for the political world. Yeah. Its just a way of higher price admission. This is a hedge fund equivalent so they can get in yet another way. The only thing i dont quite understand here is why its necessary. Theres really you know, the flood gates are completely open for all kinds of corporate activity. Okay. Heres one more way that they can do it. Theyre not one step ahead of the sheriff here. Theyre a mile ahead. Well the whole thing has become the wild west. They have, what, given to 501c 3s and 4s. Lets get in a six to round out the numbers. By the time they can figure out this is a scam theyll be on to the c7. Its my understanding companies can actually write off direct contributions to the group as a business expense. A lot easier than they can a 501c4. Perhaps thats part of the pitch of getting people to give money. Katie, one of the things that strikes me is the way theres really these layers of secrecy. They give to one group that then gives to another group. Whereas, for example, youve heard david koch, i believe it is, said hes not really so interested in the social issues. At the same time, if you look at where the money goes, a lot of their money has gone to organizations that fight choice. The antiabortion movement. You specifically wrote this week about texas and their involvement in that movement. So its twofold. In texas, you had specifically the legislation itself was model legislation from americans united for life. It wasnt something that lautenberg came up with her own. It was a d. C. Based Advocacy Group called americans united for life. That model legislation sent out across the country. Thats what hb2 is. Americans united for life is a grantee of a group called a center to protect life. Its a layering of layering of layering. Koch money is all over the place when it comes to antichoice politicians and antichoice groups in the United States. Dana, quickly before we go, the other thing weve seen is that with these groups, theyve also been able to get involved more easily in state issues. I mean, we saw the koches very involved not talking about the phone call. Involved in wisconsin and very much involved in the movement there with scott walker against the Labor Movement there. Yeah. Its yet another vehicle to get into every nook and cranny that that they have not been able to exploit before. You think of grants in terms of somebodys curing cancer. Somebodys developing underprivileged communities. No. These grants are going for very fundamental political pups unrp under the guise of some humanitarian benefit. I think the term, dana, is social i dont know. Social welfare organization. Thats exactly what it is. Somebodys welfare. They do like welfare, the coo Koch Brothers. They just didnt know it. Stay with us. Much more ahead. You make me, make me, make me go crazy you make me, make me, make me go crazy. Not doubletalk. If you have the nerve to believe that in a puzzling financial world, clarity is king. 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