On policy and high on fear mongering. If last night was any indication, buckle up. Speaker after speaker spread the usual stew of mistruths, halflies, and outright lies about Donald Trumps accomplishments, or lack thereof, and leaned hard into a message designed only for the base. But the biggest takeaway was the fear mongering about a dystopian future they claim would unfold under democrats. In other words, hide your kids, hide your wife, only trump can save you we may not have realized it at the time, but trump is the bodyguard of western civilization. The woke topians will make him an extra in a movie produced and directed by others. Its a horror film really. They want to abolish the suburbs all together. Joe biden is basically the lochness monster of the swamp. Its almost like this election is working up to church and school, versus rioting and vandalism. They want to destroy this country and everything that we have fought for and hold dear. Ladies and gentlemen, leaders and fighters for freedom and liberty and the american dream, the best is yet to come okay. Theres a very different reality at this hour in kenosha, wisconsin. Just a short time ago jacob blakes family spoke out for the first time after he was shot repeatedly in the back after reportedly trying to break up a dispute. They shot my son. Seven times seven times. Like he didnt matter. But my son matters. Lets use our hearts, our love, and our intelligence to Work Together to show the rest of the world how humans are supposed to treat each other. He was not treated like a human that day. He was treated like some foreign object that didnt belong. How much more Inhumane Treatment are we going to have to deal with before the world makes a change . His family says blake is now paralyzed from the waste down. And doctors dont yet know if the paralysis is permanent. Protests in support of blake and against Police Brutality took place in cities across the country. Some took advantage of those peaceful protests to commit acts of destruction overnight. National guard troops will be deployed for a second night in kenosha where more protests are expected. Also today, the Justice Department announced that it will be assisting in the investigation and well leave it to you, the viewer, to decide what extent you believe an agency headed by william barr will be helpful. So far, Kenosha Police have had little to say about the shooting. The officers involved have been placed on administrative leave. Joining me now is jacob blakes mother and ben crump, the familys attorney. Ms. Jackson, thank you for taking the time. I want to start with you and first ask you if you can give us any of the latest updates on mr. Blake and how hes doing. He is currently still in surgery. And i mentioned toward the end here that the Justice Department has said that theyre going to get involved in the case. Have you heard from anyone at the Justice Department so far . We have not. The Governors Office reached out, but we havent heard nothing from the department of justice. So the Governors Office has reached out, and what did the Governors Office say that theyre willing to do for the family . Well, at this point, they havent went into details about that aspect. But ms. Jackson is very grateful to the governors assistance for cutting through the red tape so she could visit her son in the hospital. Because initially her and her pastor were turned away at the door. Were turned away . Yes. Can you describe how police treated the family some because one of the things thats so jarring when you look at the video is the fact that you can see that members of the family, other people were there. There were witnesses all around. You could hear people screaming. You could see them really close to the officer when the shots rang out. What did police say to your family members . What did they say to your children . Did they try to comfort them . Did they say anything to the family at that time . Um, i wasnt there obviously. So, i cant really say exactly what was said or wasnt said. But did your family members indicate that police had any explanation for what was happening, or have you heard that they said anything to your family members . No. No. Not at all. But what we have heard is that the person who videotaped the encounter, the police harassed that individual. And in george floyd the young lady who was filming, she got targeted as well. So what is wrong with transparency . Right. And your grandchildren were there. Am i correct . Three of them, yes. Three of jacobs sons. And how are they . How are they doing tonight . As to be expected. Asking a lot of questions, saying they miss their dad, they want to see him. And they told me, grandma, the police shot my dad. And why . And i have no answers. How did your grandkids, if you know the answer to that, in general, feel about police before this happened . What were their impressions of police . Well, um, even with my children when i was raising my children, i taught them as i was taught as a child. Officer friendly. So i did that with my grandchildren as well. I cant really tell you how they feel inside at that age. They are very young. I want it to be known that i have the utmost respect for our police departments, and i dont believe that all Police Officers are monsters or anything like that. There are bad apples in every walk of life. And people make bad decisions, and they have a horrible job. And its scary, i get that. I just wish there was more training, more something that they would choose better and learn how to diffuse a situation instead of shooting people when not necessary. In some cases it may be necessary. But in this case and several others, it was not. So im not trying to just for the record im not trying to demonize police. I have some officers that i am very close to and have a Good Relationship with them. And at the hospital. We had a nice conversation and all of the officers assisted me and escorted me to and from jacobs room were phenomenal. Do you know the details of what jacob was trying to do when Police Arrived . I think for a lot of people theyre wondering how this began. Do you know the details of what sort of a dispute he was trying to intervene in . And what was he doing before this shooting took place . No, i dont. I know that jacob called me earlier that morning. He and israel, whose birthday it was on that day, were picking out toys and other things for his birthday party. Outside of that, i know nothing. And, ben, the thing i think for a lot of people is that the whole incident seems very murky. Its very difficult to understand what how things would escalate to the point where an officer would get so close to a man, an unarmed man and just begin shooting him. Have police explained from their point of view what happened and why he was shot, why jacob blake was shot . They have not, joy. And what they have said is dont rush to judgment. We have to put it all in context. That is so shocking, joy, because they always use a video when its a person of color who is accused of something nefarious, they say, well, we have video, but now that we have video of the police doing something, shooting a man seven times in his man at pointblank range when hes going away from them, they say dont rush to judgment, even though they rush and shot him. Why is it, joy reid, that the video is not enough . We saw what happened. The video speaks for itself. So, we are saying these Police Officers should be held accountable. Her son should not be lying in surgery or fighting for his life. And the last question to you, ms. Jackson. Do you want to see the officer arrested . Most definitely. Im sorry that all of this has happened. But there has to be some serious consequences. Like when we make bad decisions, theres consequences no matter who you are. Julia jackson, ben crump, i really appreciate you both. Were so sorry to see that this happened to your family. Best of luck to you and your family. Thank you. Joining me now is retired nypd detective and director of the black Law Enforcement alliance. I guess ill just ask you the same question, mark. Because i think for a lot of people, its very difficult to understand how supposedly professionally trained Police Officers can get to the point where in a crowded area with lots of people watching with witnesses, with people screaming, right nearby, would feel comfortable shooting a man multiple times in the back. It doesnt sound to me like anything any Police Officer would be trained or allowed to do but they do it. Can you give us some explanation as to how this possibly couldve happened . I think its wise to start off and say if only Police Officers felt a sense of compassion and empathy and respect for humanity for black and brown people that ms. Jackson showed towards Police Officers just now, we wouldnt be in this predicament. What causes these incidents and how this happens is because of a toxic Police Culture. A Police Culture that grants automatic absolution without the burden of confession or even acknowledgment of culpability. A Police Culture that cultivates an air of invincibility in Police Agents and entities. Where police operate in a bubble where they have no situational awareness. Who could imagine that in the midst of what were going through as a nation, discussions about the role of Law Enforcement and race as it pertains to Law Enforcement, the Police Officer would engage in this level of brutality and criminality, alleged criminality towards an individual. In the midst of what is going on across the nation. Thats toxic Police Culture where the culture of policing subsumes humanity. It doesnt allow you the breathing room for compassion, of full understanding. It establishes and affirms us against them regardless of whats happening across the nation. And can i just play i want to play lebron james who has had a lot of comment about this today. And i think he speaks for a lot of people. Take a listen. Quite frankly, its just [ bleep ] up in our community. I know people get tired of hearing me say it, but we are scared as black people in america. Black men, black women, black kids, we are terrified. As you watch the video, there was multiple moments where if they wanted to, they could have tackled him. They could have grabbed him. They could have done that. And why does it always have to get to a point where we see the guns firing . Its hard for i think most people to imagine that if this had been a white gentleman that was being confronted on the street that they wouldnt have just tackled him. So can you answer that question . It doesnt sound to me like this is something are Police Officers trained . Skip the tackling and go ahead and shoot him . Or is this something you think is happening because theyre seeing a black person reacting differently . We see this time and time again and this is a prime example of it. The mere presence of a black presence, a black body is too often perceived as a threat to the officers. We have a situation here where both officers had their guns unholstered pointed towards mr. Blake. Both of them. At what point did they perceive him to be that level of a threat where they were prepared and did actually use Deadly Physical force . You see, its the mere presence of the black body that these Police Officers react to. Its the mere presence of the black body that is established as a threat to them. And thats why these things escalate to the point too often fatali fatalities. Thank god mr. Blake has his life right now. Its hard to think of any other explanation. Thank you for being here tonight. And up next on the reidout, night two of the Republican Convention. We can expect much more from the republicans disinformation machine, such as this. One leader took Decisive Action to save lives. Misleading america and still not taking the pandemic seriously. Plus, miles taylor joins me. Hes the former trump official whos helping launch a major effort to defeat trump. And he says other senior officials will be joining him. New details in Jerry Falwell jr. s pool boy scandal and what it tells us about trumps base. More of the reidout after this. But come ye back when su mom, dad. Whys jamie here . Its sunday. Sunday sing along. And he helped us get a home and auto bundle. Hes been our insurance guy for five years now. He makes us feel like were worth protecting. [ gasps ] why didnt you tell us about these savings, flo . Ive literally told you a thousand times. Oh, danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling im just gonna. From glen to glen night two of the Republican Convention is set to take off in about an hour. Once again, showcasing that this isnt the old grand old party. Its the trump party. Typically wed be hearing from leaders of the religious rite like say Jerry Falwell jr. , but he is, shall we say, preoccupied. Instead well be hearing from the sitting head of the state department, mike pompeo, broadcast from jerusalem. One diplomat told nbc news that its all just shredding the hatch act, the law prohibiting Government Employees from engaging in Political Activities on the job, which, by the way, p pompeo scolded other diplomats from doing. Speeches from first lady melania trump, from the newly altered rose garden and son eric and daughter tiffany who are also speaking from government property. Well also hear from senator let the rurals wait for their mail rand paul. And an unusual choice for a political convention, the president s impeachment attorney, pam bondi. Tonight the Republican Conventions theme is land of opportunity after a night of genuflecting, well see if that extends to the lowincome minority who are apparently invading the suburbs that you heard about so much last night. I am joined now by the former aid to the Bush White House and former rnc chair and state department. Im merging them together. You didnt work in the state department. Hes former rnc chairman. Thank you guys for both being here. I want to go back really quickly. I just got a chance to speak with julia jackson, the father of jacob blake who we see protests are going on again because of what happened in kenosha, wisconsin. Tonight theres going to be one of the speakers at the convention whose name is abby johnson. This is what she said. She is an antiabortion activist. And she says that police would be smart to racially profile her biracial son. She has several children, and one of them is an adopted biracial son. She said it would be smart for a Police Officer to racially profile her biracial son because, quote, statistically my brown son is more likely to commit a violent offense over her white children. I dont have a question. Im just going to throw it to you for a reaction. I know. And i am recalling my seminary training right now as i prepare look to jesus, look to him. I am looking to the lord on this one. So, i guess the only question that pops into my mind is then why did you adopt him . And why would you even begin to raise a child in which you would be okay to sick the police on your child because of his racial mix . Or you have the expectation that, well, the police would be good to profile him because i dont expect him to grow up to be nothing than a thug or something that they should be suspicious of. So well just leave that at that, joy, because after this period, it gets ugly for me. Yeah. See, that seminary training really works. It does. God is good. Lets go over to you, elise. Lets talk pompeo. So mike pompeo, this is number three from my wonderful producers. The state department put a statement out saying president ial and political appointees and career ses are subject to significant restrictions on their political activity. Activity can you explain what mike pompeo is doing in israel speaking at the Republican National convention . Well, joy, secretary of state mike pompeo is using government resources, a government plane, government security. He is in government paid lodging. And he is giving a political address tonight. I had read that it was going to be from the rooftop of the King David Hotel in jerusalem. But the idea is to highlight President Trumps initiatives on middle east peace. But that is distinctly political when you are speaking at the rnc convention. And no prior secretary of state has done this. Colin powell specifically spoke out in 2004 and said he would not be part of the convention. Certainly Condoleezza Rice did not speak at the 2008 convention. And its just yet another example of how mike pompeo really flouts ethics rules that have been norms and have been abided by and rank and File State Department employees are expected to abide by, but the rules do not apply to him apparently. You know, and you have colin powell whos been secretary of state. Hes a big man in the Republican Party. He did endorse previous Democratic Candidates for president. He endorsed barack obama. But he spoke at a convention but it was a democratic convention. What is going on with your party, michael . I know that youve now joined the lincoln project. So i guess youre in the bucket of evils that donald trump will be trying to attack on twitter. But your party has lost colin powell, and theyve pained people who were ranting and raving and screaming about donald trump being the savior of western civilization. What is happening and what is this conventions message . Well, i think thats the unfortunate part of this. I was reading a number of conservative journalists and sort of assessing how they saw this. It was interesting how they put the best spin they could on that very question. And sort of found the nuggets and the little bread crumbs to sort of cobble together a sandwich that they think is palatable to the American People. The problem is that even if you put all that together, it still aint going to taste right. It still wont have flavor to it. It still will not be out of the spirit of reagan. It still wont reflect the spirit of compassion, conservatism. It still wont understand or outgive residents to the kind of leadership that we saw with dwight eisenhower. So, when you have this thing, this message thats being developed, and elise knows a lot about it. She had to communicate policy and translate it in a way that the American People could see what the agenda was, what the ideas were, what the value was. Not just the value of doing it, but the values underlining it. And thats missing here because trump doesnt have any of that. There are no values coming from trump on anything. So how do you put together the message . You put your children on the stage. You put your family on the stage. And you find people like this woman who thinks her son should be profiled by the police because he has black you know, black roots or whatever. This is what you do. Oh, and then you line up africanamericans and say, see . We connect between the combination of low unemployment and having, you know, black voices on a political stage for one night, yeah, we connect to the community. That just theres no value to that. Elise, the message is supposed to be designed to, they say, the suburban housewife, which is its interesting that the most powerful woman in the Republican Party, mcdaniel, right now she has the job that our friend michael had. Shes chairman of the rnc. But shes out there and youve got all these people like the mccloskeys saying hide your kids, hide your wife, you know, the vegans from new jersey are black, cory booker is coming to get you. Do republicans behind the scenes off camera when theyre not flacking, do they really think that this is going to add people . We know that trump people like it. But do they really think this is going to add new people to his roster in november . Just look at how it played out in the 2018 midterms, joy. You saw the suburbs flee donald trump and other republicans in the blue wave. And you saw these lifetime republicans, educated voters that the Republican Party had counted on. They had moved democratic. Are they going to move back . Are they going to stop voting for democrats after this trump era . That remains to be seen. But it has been a pretty appalling experiment to watch the ways in which trump has tried to appeal, and he is the caravan last go around. Now hes using a suburban horror story. Im betting on rage mobs. And he picked the nicest person, cory booker, and used him. Anyway, both of you all know rand paul. Can one of you all please call him and let him know that rural people need their mail and they shouldnt only get their mail three, four days a week. Thank you both of you. Up next, more highprofile republicans are jumping ship from the party of trump. Well talk with one of them next. Stay with us. Allstate wont raise your rates just because of an accident. Cut is that good . No you were talking about allstate and. I just. When i. Accident forgiveness from allstate. Click or call for a quote today. Where Everybody Knows someyour name ant to go and theyre always glad you came applebees. Now thats eating good in the neighborhood. Find your getupandgo. Find pants that arent sweats. Find your friends. Find your sense of wander. Find the world is new, again. At chevy wed like to take you there. 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I got it all from you im always pushing through i know well make it to the finish line i know youre waiting on the other side im like you ondemand glucose monitoring. Because theyre always on. Another lifechanging technology from abbott. So you dont wait for life. You live it. As the Republican Convention continues in washington with its mix of fear mongering and loyalty oaths to donald trump, a group of conservative current and former Administration Officials are issuing a warning about electing trump to a second term. The group is called repair. And is led by former Homeland Security official miles taylor and launched the same day more than two dozen former republican members of congress endorsed joe biden. In an oped in the Washington Post last week, taylor sounded the alarm about donald trump, saying at Homeland Security i saw firsthand how dangerous trump is for america. And joining me now is miles taylor. Mr. Taylor, thank you so much. Really appreciate you spending some time here tonight. And i just want to jump right in it and sort of dig in a little bit on some issues regarding Homeland Security. But i want to start by asking you if you can give me your reaction to the indictment of steve bannon who is indicted for allegedly defrauding people who were donating 25 million, it turns out, to build the wall. And if you know anything about whether or not at the time that the whole build the wall fixation was taking place inside the white house, a company that mr. Bannon was involved called fisher, sand, gravel that supposedly this fundraiser was meant to benefit, that this is the company that should be used to build the wall . First of all, thanks for having me tonight. I really do appreciate it. And its interesting that you bring up fisher because i do have recollections about that. As i recall, the senator from that home state, i believe that was senator danes at the time, sent a letter to the president and said ive got a company that works in my state who can build the wall so much cheaper than its being built. And i think, if i remember correctly, it was Something Like they said we could build it for a third of the cost. This was problematic for a few reasons. When you go into government, one of the first things they teach you in the bureaucracy is when it comes to procurement, youve got to be very, very careful. People can protest and they can sue and it has to go through an impartial process and a competition. Then theres awards and selection. Rarely, if ever, do president s of the United States get involved in that process because that can lead to political unfairness and corruption and kickbacks and all kinds of bad things. So i remember sitting in his office and he said, look, hes telling me that his company can do it for a third of the cost. Why dont we go with them . And everyones hair stood up on edge because the last thing you want is the president involved in a procurement especially when a political ally has sent him for a letter in a company in his district. It was red flags all around. We said, mr. President , it all goes through the same process. If their bid legitimately is the best bid, then they will win the competition. But it doesnt work by just raising a letter from your favorite politician and saying hes got a company that works great. So a lot of the ways in which the whole Homeland Security process worked i think alarmed a lot of people, one of which was this idea that donald trump wanted the border closed, that he essentially said do what you got to do to process and ill pardon anyone in the process. Not widely within the department, but when that episode happened in april of 2019, at least for me that was a moment where i decided i have to go. I mean, i cant stay in this administration any longer. The president wanted officials to do things that were illegal. He wanted us to say that people seeking asylum at the border could not come into the country. He wanted us to tell them you cannot come in, each though our law affords Asylum Seekers to the president said i dont care, dont let any of them in, and if you get in trouble, ill pardon you. Thats pretty damning. And i went back to the department after that, i talked to our chief lawyer and i said did what we just hear come across as illegal . And if so, what do we do about it when its the president of the United States . Ultimately our lawyers determined we dont think that him saying that is illegal. But its certainly corrupt and its wrong. And at that point in time, like i said, it was time to get out. Kirstjen nielsen, who emerged as sort of a villainess as a separation of children from their parents. What a lot of people say of the stealing of children because its not clear that all of them have been returned to their families or reunited with their families. She has tried to insist that she was against this policy. My understanding is that she was opposed to it at least in a show of hands. But she still did it. Did you get the sense that there was a strong opposition to what was done to these children inside of the agency, or was there more of a motivation to do it because they knew donald trump wanted it . This is where it gets tricky. And its really hard to explain this publicly. But what happened was in year one of the administration, there were people in the white house who wanted to do a deliberate policy of ripping children away from their parents at the border. So no matter where they showed up. If they came across illegally or showed up at a port of entry, they wanted to just pull them apart. When that was suggested to the department, we said hell no, thats the craziest thing, thats cruel, thats unamerican. So then Jeff Sessions the next year proposed a zerotolerance policy. Fine, he said, everyone who crosses illegally will be prosecuted. Now, if that worked well and the system was efficient, it would be a few hours that a parent would be away from their child, which happens every day, its still happening now. But then quickly theyre reunited once the case is adjudicated. The problem here, joy, when the attorney general said 100 youre talking about thousands of additional people overnight being prosecuted. So the secondary consequence and a predictable consequence was that youd have thousands of children that might not be able to be reunited in time. Now, the secretary saw that disaster coming. In fact, thats the reason the white house got so frustrated is the attorney general announced the policy and weeks and weeks go by and they said dhs, why arent you referring us these cases . And we said because were not ready to do it until you tell us theres the resources to make sure that we wont have this problem and that people wont get put back together that. Meeting happened and of course the white house said were going to take a vote. Everyone outvoted the secretary. Even agencies within our Department Said we think we have the resources. A few weeks later it became true that that was not the case. There werent the resources. And this shouldve been a disaster that never happened in the first place. But it shows you what happens in a culture in an administration where policymaking isnt taken seriously, they dont run a good process and the president s willing to sign onto anything before its been vetted. I wish i had an hour to talk to you. I was going to ask you about donald trump wanting to exchange puerto rico for greenland, which is insane that that is the case. But quickly before i let you go, whats the thing you fear most . You have a new organization to make sure that donald trump is not elected again. Whats the thing you fear most if he gets elected again . As a republican, joy, and im still a republican, i think the party is on life support. If donald trump wins a second term, at a minimum, the Republican Party will be on hospice. Well be near death as a party. But my bigger concern is what this is going to mean for the republic. I dont say that to try to sound highminded and above the fray. But genuinely i think the president has done such great damage to american institutions that our concern will be that four years will take decades to recover from. So, i worry about his attacks on the justice system. I worry about his astacks on americas Civil Service and americans themselves. Look what happened this summer. The president was more interested in using dhs to protect confederate statues than he was to protect the lives of black americans who feel like theyre still being targeted in some corners of our country because of the color of our skin. If that man is still president for four more years, itll be a damage to our National Security most certainly, but it will do damage to our national character. Thats what i worry about. Thats why im going to fight against him. Thats why even as a republican i think joe biden should win on november 3rd. We are out of time. Do you want to tell us who the other officials in your organization are . Do you want to break that they wills tonight . Well tell you very soon. Weve even got some people inside the administration. And the president s really not going to like that. Feel free to come back and tell us on the show. Miles taylor, appreciate you. Thanks, joy. Still ahead, the fall of Jerry Falwell jr. And his bizarre almost symbiotic relationship with donald trump. What a long, strange trip it has been. Well be right back. We see you. Looking out for all of us. But you cant lose sight of your own wellbeing especially if you have a serious chronic medical condition. At aetna, were always here to help you focus on your health. Because its always time for care. Instead of using aloe, or baby wipes, or powders. Try the cooling, soothing relief of preparation h. Because your derriere deserves expert care. Try new soothing relief. If your child doesnt 1 iseem themself at times,ed. They may not be hydrated enough. Wabba wabba all new, Plant Powered creative roots gives kids the hydration they need, with the fruit flavors they love, and 1 gram of sugar. Find new creative roots in the kids juice aisle. Im leading every poll with the evangelicals. Evangelicals like donald trump. They like donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] and i want to thank, by the way, Jerry Falwell jr. Who has been so instrumental in this. We won with the evangelicals, which is very important to me. You know, the evangelicals have been amazing. And Jerry Falwell jr. Whos an incredible guy from liberty university, he endorsed me. Jerry falwell jr. Has had so much to do with my success with the evangelicals. The evangelical leader Jerry Falwell jr. s endorsement of donald trump in the 2016 campaign played a large role in cementing trump support among evangelicals. Trump reminds me so much of my father who says exactly what he thinks no matter what anybody cares. In my opinion, donald trump lives the life of loving and helping others as jesus taught in the great commandment. I really believe donald trump is uniquely qualified to run this country. And im proud to be endorsing him. As the New York Times put it, falwells endorsement became a permission slip for deeply religious conservatives who are attracted by mr. Trumps promises but weary of his wellknown history. He made that endorsement mainstream at the 2016 Republican Convention. We are at a crossroads where our First Priority must be saving our nation. [ applause ] we must unite behind donald trump and mike pence. But he wont be speaking at this years convention. Up next, well have new details on the scandal involving falwell, his wife and their pool boy. Go go go go go go go on a real vacation. Visit go rving. Com or your nearest rv dealer. Guys guys safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 thats safe drivers save 40 . It is, thats safe drivers save 40 . Hes right there. Its him safe drivers do save 40 . Click or call for a quote today. Dont just think about where syoure headed this summer. Think about how youll get there. And now that you can lease or buy a new lincoln remotely or in person. Discovering that feeling has never been more effortless. Its the final days of the lincoln summer invitation sales event. Right now, get zero percent apr on all 2020 lincoln vehicles. Welcome to camp tonsafun on xfinity its summer camp, but in your living room. Learn how to draw with a minions expert. How to build an indoor Obstacle Course plus. Whatever shes doing. And me, jade cattapreta. The host of es the soup camp tonsafun. Its like summer camp, but minus the poison ivy. Unless you own poison ivy. In which case, why . Just say summer camp into your xfinity voice remote to join. Jerry falwell, jr. , has officially resigned as president of liberty university, after reuters reported that a Business Partner of falwells said he had a years long sexual relationship involving falwells wife and the evangelical leader. Falwell confirmed his wife had an affair, but denied participating in it. Liberty has a strict honor code that prohibits sexual relations outside of a biblically ordained marriage. Tim, im going to go to you first. Just for those that have not been following, reuters in 2019 said that Michael Cohen had claimed he had racy photos of Jerry Falwell, jr. , and that he had these personal photographs and a source said the person who possessed the photos destroyed them. Another thing that happened is falwell endorsed donald trump, and another story saying that falwell sought to cut ties to the pool attendant, not too long before Donald Trumps campaign. What does it say about the Trump Campaign that part of the thing they had to do to get prepared was to clean up the pool boy thing so that falwell could cleanly endorse . Well, i mean, it says that President Trump and everyone around him are grifters, and they know how to spot other grifters. And its pretty clear from the fact pattern thats emerging in all this that falwell himself was a grifter. We know that ted cruzs campaign was shocked that falwell suddenly spun around and endorsed donald trump. I think thats because they had the goods on falwell, according to whats in all of the stories being reported right now. Yeah. And they know how to leverage people. This is where President Trump operates. It does not come from a place of christian good will. It does not come from love or generosity. President trump is a racist, a big got. Hes rupt. He lies. He doesnt go to church or read the bible. He doesnt love others as he loves himself, and he doesnt do unto others as he does to himself. He is the farthest thing from a christian imaginable. But he knows how to put people in corners and try to leverage them. Its clear thats what happened to falwell. Your book is all the title is its all a lie, but the evangelical support for donald trump is so solid. We have Donald Trumps support among evangelicals 82 now, it was 81 in 2016. Its hard to believe this will change it. So what should we make of the sort of white evangelical world . Im just assuming it wont change, their attitude, toward falwell, trump, any of it. Im glad you said white evangelical, because thats a distinction. Africanamerican evangelicals are overwhelmingly against donald trump. They were overwhelmingly against roy moore. And i think theyre the ones that have emerged here as being truer to their faith. Look, theres sort of an industrial white evangelical complex out there that is about power and money. And the thing about President Trump is, as tim was saying, he realizes weakness and hes completely transactional. So he gave them, promised them and then gave them what they wanted, which was power. And i think the most disturbing thing to me about this is not the sexual stuff, but its just that the cruelty that President Trump represents, that is so antichristian. And the cruelty of falwell. They have weaponized christianity. I write about this in the book. No one really wanted to live like that, most of them didnt. They just used it as a weapon to beat democrats. Yeah, you know, tim, i mean, President Trump is not an evangelical christian, right . Youre a biographer of his hes not any version of christian, joy, much less evangelical christian. Stewart put his finger on it, about this distinction between white and black evangelicals. President trump grew up essentially with the prosperity gospel. Norman Vincent Peale telling wealthy people they could get into heaven by getting rich. He aligns himself with paula white in florida who preaches the prosperity gospel. Theres a Long Foundation of this in his life and none of it has anything to do with christianity. Christianity is a simple message, we should love one another, we should be tolerant and forgiving. Hes none of those things. But what hes interested in is the institution at a path to power and hes do it it politically and socially. Before we go, stewart, what is going to happen to the white evangelical movement if President Trump loses . You know, thats a very good question. I would like to say that theyll have a moment of reckoning with god. But i dont know. Im pessimistic about it, lets put it that way. Well have to have you back on. Thank you both very much. Stay here. After the break, i will be back with Rachel Maddow and Nicolle Wallace for full coverage and a fact check of the second night of the Republican National convention. Stay right there. N naontial Convention Stay right there cancer wont wait. It wont wait for appointments to open up or test results to come back. Thats why at Cancer Treatment centers of america, our worldclass experts give you the care you need, when you need it. With appointments in as little as 24 hours and rapid test results to get you a personalized treatment plan. Because cancer isnt just what we do, its all we do. Call today. Appointments available now. Come out of the dryer wrinkled . Next time try bounce wrinkle guard dryer sheets. 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