Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline White House 20210105

Will be followed. And a raging pandemic, that now shows signs of becoming more contagious, more dangerous, and doing more harm to our fellow citizens. An outgoing lame duck president who refuses to concede an election he lost. And is intent on burning down our democracy on his way out the door. And this hour kicks off what will be continuing coverage of the Georgia Special elections for us into the night. My colleagues and friends, rachel maddow, brian williams, and joy reid will be along starting at 6 30 p. M. Eastern. But right now, long lines at polling places on top of the recordshattering 3 millionplus early votes that have already been cast. Democratic candidates ossoff and warnock must win for the party to take control of the u. S. Senate. While republicans loeffler and perdue are clinging to donald trump, in what has become his desperate, allout assault on democracy itself. In clearer language, its a coup attempt. Heres what is coming to a head this hour. Mike pence is being pressured by trump to turn his ceremonial role tomorrow into an insurgent act. Trump today falsely claiming that the Vice President has the power to reject electors. The Vice President has no such power to reject electors. The president s final attempt to cling to power is being fueled by what has been termed the sedition caucus, 12 u. S. Senators and more than 100 house members. All that is left for mike pence is the stark choice between fealty to donald trump and loyalty to the constitution. Were also covering breaking news, 2020 also ushered in a longoverdue racial reckoning. One of the most searing instances of Excessive Force used against a black man was in the case of jacob blake. He was shot by a Police Officer in front of his children. That shooting has left him paralyzed. Any moment, the kenosha, wisconsin, District Attorney will announce whether any of the Police Officers involved in the shooting will face charges. We do not know what the decision will be. But we can report the city is already bracing for unrest. Wisconsins governor has mobilized 500 National Guard troops. Were going to cover it as soon as it gets under way. Were going to start with election day in georgia. Were joined by Yamiche Alcindor joins us. Also, cornell belcher, and greg bluestein. All eyes are on georgia. What is the latest reporting on the state of the final hours of that race, and how if in any way, Donald Trumps call this weekend changed it . My Text Messages are filled operatives worried about different tea leaves theyre e seeing. We know there are some republican territories with turnout that is pretty solid. And in metro atlanta, its hit or miss. Light turnout, and some heavy turnout. Right now, we know that republicans have a hole to fill. Democrats built an early advantage with early voting, and republicans are reliant on a surge in tuesday turnout to fill that hole. Greg, we have talked over the course of these runoffs, because all eyes instantly turn to georgia. The president elect was in the state yesterday, and his closing message was back on the agenda. Its likely only passable if the two Democratic Candidates win their races tonight. How much is that in the water, that everything were facing as a country, the pandemic, economic support, everything that people live in their daily lives is on the line with tonights votes . Thats a key part of the democratic message. Ignore President Trump, all the distractions, focus on a posttrump american political era. The democrats are saying in just a few weeks, if they win these senate runoffs, they can usher in sweeping Voting Rights measures, new funding to contain the coronavirus. Theyre tuning out President Trump, and focusing on what they can achieve. I got a little chill when you said Voting Rights. Kelly loeffler and david perdue have aligned themselves with Donald Trumps coup attempt, which is literally the disenfranchisement of voters in all the states that donald trump lost. I know nothing surprises you in covering this Republican Party at this hour, but were any of the operatives or advisers to loeffler or perdue troubled by Donald Trumps message last night, where he threatened his own vp at a rally . I got scattered, not just operative, but also some voters, especially more moderate voters. Moderate Republican Voters who may have held their nose and voted for President Trump, they like divided government. But you see this gradual embrace of escalating moves to inv invalidate the election results. They backed the texas lawsuit, and when loeffler last night said she indeed would back trump in congress tomorrow. You know, what is happening tomorrow is very much in the news on the white house beat, yamiche. Reports that donald trump and mike pence lunched today. Ive read every legal analysis of the options before mike pence tomorrow, and there arent any. His role tomorrow is ceremonial. His job is to read the count, not to count it himself or replace it. That said, what is your latest reporting on what pence is expected to do tomorrow . Its tough to say what pence is expected to do. My reporting is based on what he should do, and what legal avenues for him there are. And my understanding is, this is a ceremonial role. He could have opted out, and it still would have gone forward. So the feeling is, he doesnt have any options before him. But hes facing intense pressure from President Trump, but the votes were counted, the election is over, and has been for weeks now. So Vice President pence, unless he wants to completely upend things in a way that is completely out of the norm and beyond any of the experts ive talked to, there are not really any options before him. We have seen with President Trump, people thought it was about fundraising, about the president trying to think of his future, when we saw him continuing to talk about the fact that he was going to win the election and fundraise for the election defense fund. Sunday night, we learned the president is intent on trying to shake down local elected officials to try to find votes and take back the election. It has started this kind of civil war you see going on in the Republican Party. One camp of people, some of them used to be trump allies, and then the others who are sticking by the president. But this really what well see tomorrow should go smoothly, even if it is in some ways raucous. The smooth part will be, joe biden will remain the person who will be president. Cornell, i think yamiche found a way to describe the times. Smooth but raucous. But i sense some angst. And some people around pence are feeling the heat of the direct pressure from donald trump. Im not going to play it, but donald trump at his rally last night started by saying he wont like pence very much anymore if he doesnt betray the constitution and carry out trumps coup. We should call it what it is, a coup is an attack against the state, against the democracy. It also meets the definitions of sedition. But my question, with loeffler and perdue, people more extreme than don rumsfeld and dick cheney. They said what trump is doing is too extreme. Yeah, as a Good Communications person, im going to talk about Something Else entirely. Youre welcome to do so. I was on the phone earlier with mayor bottoms in atlanta, and i have to, before i get to your question, i have to give kudos to the operation that i think youre seeing from the organizations, both the party and campaign organizations, and also thirdparty ones like naacp, and other organizations on the ground. Look, we have more people voting, you know, who didnt vote. Over 40,000 people who didnt vote in the general election have already voted in this election, that we think are africanamericans. Which is extraordinary. Theyre blowing through every turnout prediction in georgia for a runoff. As one who has worked in Runoff Elections in georgia, ive never seen anything quite like this. Theyre on the ground, touching voters, and pulling voters out, and i think they have a Robust Program there. And looks like democrats are talking to the mayor, looks like democrats are going into election day with a bigger advantage today than biden had already on election day in the general election, which is just tremendous. And what republicans have to do right now is, they have to have a huge election day. What is really critical, what you should be watching for is, you know, all the republicans who did not turn out and vote early, will they get the same sort of surge and energy now that donald trump is not on the ballot, and particularly that donald trump has given mixed messages about the election there. Will they get that same sort of surge and that huge election day on the ground in georgia, that they certainly need to overcome what looks like a democrat advantage. To the questions of perdue and loeffler, sort of objecting to the vote, what i find is interesting, in their state, what theyre really doing is, theyre trying to disenfranchise black and brown voters, but more importantly, theyre disenfranchising suburban voters. The biggest difference between Hillary Clinton and biden, its in the suburbs. I have a million more questions for you, and im glad you brought it back to what has happened on the ground. Joe biden mentions Stacey Abrams every time he campaigns there. And his line about her is, theres obviously a personal relationship there and a lot of affection. He said, if i can clone Stacey Abrams and we could have 12 of them, we could change the world. Just try to talk about what you see in terms of the difference, if you can go through different parts of the state, between joe bidens election day, when he prevailed, i think we all now know after listening to the trump tape, about 11,400 what did trump keep saying . 11,440 votes. How do you see it shaping up as improving upon bidens election day in november, and where . That becomes the key question. Its all about these what we call sporadic voters, voters who dont consistently vote in elections turning out and getting a larger share of them, its a 30 30 thing, they need 30 africanamerican, and 30 of the white vote to be successful in georgia. And kudos to Stacey Abrams and the organizations on the ground, registrations increased, from 2016 to 2020, there was a huge increase in registration. When you look at where the vote was different, the portion of the electorate, 4 or 5 points larger in 2020 than in 2016. And that makes all the difference in the world. A lot of what these on the ground organizations have been doing, expanding the electorate, bringing new registrants in, and being more competitive in the suburbs. Look, biden did substantially better in the suburbs than Hillary Clinton did. A lot of that is sort of, is that a rejection of donald trump . Does perdue and loefflers embrace of donald trump, does that continue to turn off certain segments of those suburban voters who once upon a time were reliable Republican Voters . Greg, youve been covering this since the morning after the president ial election was called and all eyes turned to georgia. This dynamic, the early vote, young voters, infrequent voters. What is your sense of how all the groups, did the Democrats Bank on that vote, in the early vote, to be cautiously optimistic . What is your sense of the numbers today . I talked to democrats who are more than cautiously optimistic, theyre overall optimistic. Others are despondent. Thats why its so hard to read the tea leaves right now. But one number that folks keep coming back to, more than 100,000. Thats the number of voters who did not cast ballots in november, but are now casting ballots in the runoffs. With the margins so close, democrats feel like theyve built an advantage among new voters as well, this untapped pool. News has just broken that kenosha county, wisconsins, District Attorney has announced that no charges will be filed against Police Officers in the shooting of jacob blake. Lets listen in to that news conference. Theyll both be available at 5 00 p. M. Today. In addition, there has been a report drafted with all the findings, that also will be available at that time. So now i intend to talk about what steps were taken specifically by the d. A. s office to prepare for the investigation, and what our conclusions are about the law and the evidence in this case. As soon as i saw the video, and shared the same emotional reactions that i think so many people in the public did, my first viewing of the circumstances of the video that certainly went viral immediately, i knew at that time that we needed to do the most independent charging and processing decision that could be done. At the first moment i learned that, i called on the u. S. Attorneys office to do a parallel civil rights investigation that would be a separate investigation and conclusion and findings from our own. The u. S. Attorneys office has a civil rights specialist who prosecutes and makes charging decisions about officers and any misconduct. So they have specialists who do that. They work out of their washington, d. C. , office. They did agree to do an investigation. I know that is going on. And i invite you to contact that office to find out what their status is. Kenosha deserves a second legal opinion other than my own. Im confident about the things im talking about today. But i believe that the healing process begins or is improved by an opportunity for members of the public to see other prosecuting agencies make decisions. And the other thing i did, and i think this is unprecedented in the state of wisconsin, i dont think this has been ever done before. I asked the Wisconsin Attorney general to select for this particular case a use of force expert who i had nothing to do with hiring. I asked them to find someone, so there would be a truly and completely independent expert on issues of police training, and issues of whether the use of force in this case was reasonable. I asked them to select the person without me having any input. What the attorney general did was he asked noble ray, who is with me today, who accepted. And i knew noble rays name, i knew him as a national and state spokesperson for police reform. And talking about bias in policing, and a person hoping to who had spent after a long career at the Madison Police department, his second career was trying to be a voice on those issues on a national level. When i first had my contact with noble ray, had never spoken to him in my life, had never met him in person until after this selection was made, my first conversation with him was about how i wanted in no way to influence the decision he came to about the matters that mattered in this case. I told him, no matter what you conclude, were going to publish that, that will be an independently formed opinion. I wont have any influence, and you will be allowed to put anything you want in there. And i will invite you to offer any opinions we just want to tell you what youre listening to. Thats the kenosha, wisconsin, District Attorney. He said it will take one hour to explain the decision. But the decision is that no charges will be brought against the Police Officer or any of the Police Officers involved in the shooting of jacob blake. He was an unarmed black man who was shot, and the shooting resulted in becoming paralyzed, it happened as he was at the front door of his vehicle with his children in the backseat. I want to bring in gabe gutierrez, live in kenosha, wisconsin, for us. Gabe . Reporter i want to paint the picture of where we are right now. Right behind me, we see a Police Cruiser with several members of the wisconsin National Guard. As you mentioned earlier, the governor has mobilized several hundred members, 500 drootroopsd i want to get to what you just heard from the local District Attorney. Yes, as you mentioned, no charges in this case. A case that has captured nationwide attention. There was unrest following the death of george floyd and the shooting of jacob blake. He was shot seven times. What you just heard from the District Attorney is that applying the law to this case, he believes no charges should be filed in this case. But there is still an investigation ongoing at the federal level as well. But this is what jacob blakes family expected, last night, there was a protest here in kenosha, where his father said this is perhaps what he expected. Late last night, the city Council Voted to approve an emergency declaration, expected to extend for eight days now. But this is a city that really was brought to a standstill when this case happened back in august. Over the last several months, many of the businesses here in kenosha, wisconsin, have remained boarded up. And as you can see behind me, there is great concern of whether anger might boil over once again in this community. But again, the breaking news, the District Attorney here announcing his longawaited decision that no charges will be brought against any of the officers here in this case. The one who fired the shots, his attorney had previously said he believed that jacob blake had a weapon on him. And that is why he fired those shots. But again, the District Attorney now saying theres not enough evidence to convict any of those officers. Gabe gutierrez, thank you. Please jump back on if anything develops. Joining our conversation, paul butler. A few questions come to my mind. Is there a standard being set that a Police Officer can have a suspects shirt in his hand, and fire eight shots, and no legal lines have been crossed . Indeed there is a standard being set. A standard of miscarriage of justice once again. Another example of africanamericans not receiving equal protection of law. Michael brown, breonna taylor, and now jacob blake. We have a man shot seven times in the back while his three children are watching. Mr. Blake was unarmed at the time he was shot. So the District Attorneys options range from attempted murder to Reckless Endangerment to assault. Here we have once again, no legal consequences. When you ask whether this sets a standard, criminal prosecutions are expressive, theyre designed to deter future misconduct and to demonstrate respect for the humanity and dignity of victims. When prosecutors fail to bring charges, thats expressive as well. It means in the eyes of the government, what happened to mr. Blake is not a crime. That someone can be shot in the back seven times in front of their children while unarmed and the person who did the shooting suffers no criminal consequences. It seems that when you see the Police Officer holding jacob blakes tshirt, he has control of jacob blakes body when he shoots him seven times. Can you explain what that could usher in, that someone could literally be Holding Someone while they shoot them in front of their children . So, no cases against Police Officers are easy. And most do not result in convictions for murder or attempted murder. What was different about this case is that mr. Jacob was shot in the back. Its harder for the officer to make the case that he reasonably feared for his life, which is the legal standard. We know that none of the other officers on the scene discharged their weapons. That supports an inference that this officer may have been triggerhappy. And then we have that harrowing videotape. When you watch that tape, you see a black man being hunted down by a Police Officer with a gun and you dont see that man posing any threat. You could believe your own eyes. Paul butler, gabe only made an oblique reference to it, but obviously, jacob blakes shooting ushered in extremist violence in the streets. Kyle rittenhouse, celebrated by some rightwing hosts, took to the streets as a vigilante, and acquired a weapon, and strolled past police after fatally shooting other people in a melee in a protest. What do we know about what impressions people of kenosha may have from all of these events . The accurate impression from the two events is that in kenosha, wisconsin, as in too many places around this country, there are two different sets of law. One for people of color and especially africanamericans, and another for Police Officers. And too frequently, Police Officers are held above the law. They dont have to follow the same rules as everybody else. If theres any encouraging news, its that president elect biden and Vice President elect harris as candidates met with mr. Blakes family and they expressed their outrage. And upon assuming the power of the presidency, they have the opportunity to make a difference. So far, we havent seen any changes by this national reckoning. American cops kill about 1,000 people every year, they killed about 1,000 people in 2020. The Biden Administration can get back in the business of civil rights. It can bring pattern and practice investigations against local Police Officers. The Obama Administration brought 25 different investigations against local police departments. The Trump Administration brought one. Wow. That is just staggering. Its a conversation that we will continue. Paul butler, thank you. I want to bring in my colleague, reverend al sharpton. And i know youve been in touch with the blake family since this happened. Have you talked to them today . I literally am landing at columbus, ohio, and the family attorney, ben crump, is with me. Im literally in the airport, landing back. Hes on his way to kenosha, im going probably tomorrow. This is an outrage, even though its expected. The local District Attorney was not going to do anything, nicole. I think this puts further energy to the civil rights leaders who met with president elect biden and Vice President elect harris to have an attorney general who is committed to having proper policing. I said i prefer a black attorney general, but at least have one with a background in civil rights and in police reform. That puts further pressure, since they have not announced an attorney general, that they appoint someone who is sensitive to this. I just preached a funeral two hours ago in columbus, ohio, of a man shot, unarmed, several times. The policeman had 90 complaints against him. And in kenosha, a man shot on tape, seven times, in the back. And the local prosecutor sees no misuse of force. It is on this Incoming Administration to redeem proper policing in this country. I think theyll live up to it, and i think they will show us what policing should be about. When you compare the policing task force that we had under obama that brought several investigations, with the Trump Administration, it didnt do any. I think you see why many of us are saying change was needed. What happened to jacob blake jr. , who did live, but was clearly wounded. Seven shots in the back, compare those that have been killed like andre hill, its time for us to deal with the issue of policing in this country in a fair and just way. Theyre bracing for whether there will be violence tonight. And we dont condone any violence. But what about the violence that happened to jacob blake jr. . To be shot in the back is violence. You need to do something about the Police Violence that has already occurred unjustifiably. You were the first person we wanted to talk to, and a lot of people around the country have sought you out. All summer weve covered your eulogies at George Floyds funeral and others. What do you want to say to people who are just feeling retraumatized and feeling all the pain and anger and dont have the patience for all the policy work you just articulated . I want to say to them that the outrage and anger all of us feel. But the question is, if we just vent our anger, and not really do something that will permanently stop this, were going to go from one funeral to the next and not get justice. So to just vent and show our anger will play into the hands of those that dont want to see fundamental change. We must be strategic enough to channel our anger into real change. As i said, during christmas, we saw during the holiday season, we saw more police shootings. I just left a funeral where a family is burying another victim. It only helps to justify their position if we become violent, oh, we were afraid. What they care about is to put people in power who will hold them accountable and will change the laws to where police are accountable as anyone else. Were not antipolice, were antibad policing and violent policing. We need to have the blakes and and the floyds of this world get justice. And we stop going from one episode of injustice to another. This District Attorney is representative of many local authorities around this country. Thats why we need federal laws like the george floyd policing act, and federal oversight of policing, which started under consent decrees in the last administration, and was eliminated under the Trump Administration. We need biden and harris to bring this country back on to the course of Mutual Respect for life, for police and for citizens, and not where you have a society where people can be shot in the back by police. That didnt even happen in the wild, wild west, they can be shot in the back, and experts say its justified. It wouldnt have been justified, as i said, in the wild, wild west. Why is it justified in kenosha . I cant wait until the day when were not tracking you down in the airport when you just delivered a eulogy, about another tragic event. Thank you. Were going to sneak in a break. New reporting on Donald Trumps Pressure Campaign against his own Vice President to aid and abet his coup attempt in congress. All that and more as deadline white houses special election coverage continues. Dont go anywhere. Al election coverage continues dont go anywhere. Did you know you can go to libertymutual. Com to customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need . Really . I didnt aah ok. Im on vibrate. Aaah only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Hey kaleb, whats up . How you doing . Hey, im good, guess what, i just had my 13th surgery. Really . I just had my 17th surgery. Well, you beat me. Well, i am a little bit older than you. Yeah its true. How are you doing . Im doing good. Im encouraged by seeing how people are coming together to help each other during times like these. Kind of like how shriners hospitals for children is there for us. Imagine if i couldnt get my surgery. Who knows what would have happened. Same for me. 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I think thats about it buddy, good job. My pleasure captain. Please call now. If operators are busy with all the other caring people, please wait patiently, or you can go to loveshriners. Org to give right away. [alec] big or small, your gift helps us all. [both] thank you. giggling i hope mike pence comes through for us. I have to tell you. I hope that our great Vice President , our great Vice President comes through for us. Hes a great guy. Of course, if he doesnt come through, i wont like him quite as much. Mike pence has been one of trumps most loyal aides. Standing with the president through every crisis and juncture in the Trump Presidency and candidacy. Even backing trumps baseless claims of voter fraud. With pence set to reside over the vote in congress to certify the election results, trump is hoping the Vice President will choose him and do something crazy over the will of the people. And what is written and prescribed by the u. S. Constitution. Hes hoping that pence will find a way to throw out bidens win. Something he has zero authority to do. The New York Times has come to believe mr. Pences role will be akin to that of a chief justice and arbiter. In reality, it will be more like the person who opens an envelope in the Academy Awards, nothing to do with determining the winner. Jake, let me start with you. I made the point that the story that trump aides and allies have told all three of us, sometimes in calls made through signal, hes too stupid, too hapless, to have worked with russia or obstructed the mueller investigation. Now, with this thing with pence, is that the cover story, or is trump so maniacal that he wants pence to fabricate a role for himself . A few things here. Im trying to make sense of this now. Typically on capitol hill, we have a lot of precedent that deals with all sorts of situations, because our country has been around for a couple hundred years and a lot of things have happened in the halls of congress. But theres never been an instance where the Vice President had the possibility of going rogue, right . Where he is presiding over a joint session of congress, and he might be dishonest about what the results are. If you ask nonpartisan people who have been guiding congress for decades through all sorts of bizarre scenarios, if you ask, what happens if the Vice President does something, the answer is, we dont know. Its never happened. Listen, heres the reality. Mike pence is going to be getting advice from the house parliamentarian, a lawyer and expert on the roles of the house and the president. If he ignores that and does Something Else, the house of representatives is a maj majoritarian body. I like to think of the minimum and the maximum story were going to get. The maximum, if he goes completely off the rails, theres a majority in the house and the senate that is going to prevent that from happening. At worst case scenario. Were journeying into uncharted territory. We dont know what pence is going to try to do, or what the president is trying to make him do. But we do hope, even if its more than what the New York Times is describing, the traditional definition as prescribed by the constitution, the role for the Vice President. But could he deviate . You would hope the institution isnt presented with that. But we have to think of all sorts of scenarios as we plan for tomorrow. Im going to associate myself with your alarm, jake sherman. And i want to ask you about the political calculation. Its abundantly clear to me, no one is doing anything out of loyalty to the country. The republicans decided that democracy was so vital in places like iraq that they voted to send our country in. But its not important here . I want to show you brett baier pushing back on mr. Hawley last night, and what do you make of hawleys position . Are you trying to say that as of january 20th, that President Trump will be president . Well, that depends on what happens on wednesday. No, it doesnt. The states by the constitution say they certify the election. They did certify it. By the constitution, congress doesnt have the right to overturn the certification. This is my only opportunity during this process to raise an objection and to be heard. Dont you have a responsibility to tell them its not going to be President Trump as of january 21st as well . So, jake, let me tell you, do not tell me hes smart. Okay . Other people have made that problem on this program, ive thrown up in my mouth when people tell me where he was educated. He may be smart, but hes not a democratic politician. If he will not look in a camera and say joe biden will be the president on the 20th, hes unamerican. Is that where that 12member sedition caucus wants to be, or do they want to be where tom cotton and Chris Christie have carve out a space . Its a lot of republicans in both the house and senate. In our afternoon edition today, we had a letter from House Republicans saying it didnt go out way, but this is the reality of the situation, joe biden is president. Hawley, for some reason, sees this as an opportunity to debate or litigate the merits of these voting apparatuses, and i dont quite understand. He doesnt have standing as a prosecutor, he doesnt have investigative powers. So hes going to debate the merits of whether there was fraud, and as a lawyer, he understands the courts have already debated the merits, and theyve come to a conclusion that there was not systemic fraud, joe biden won the election, donald trump lost the election. And the halls of congress generally speaking is not the place to have this debate. Its not the forum. Listen, the political calculus is this. All of these people, many of the people, cruz, hawley, are fighting for a position in a Republican Party that they think they will lead come 2024. Its no more complicated than that. And ted cruz is going to object to arizona tomorrow, the first state he could object to. So, listen, this is just a rush to grab the trump mantle. And tom cotton is saying, there is no validity here in the constitution. The only thing these people can do is make reporters and colleagues angry tomorrow with a 24hour session that will end in a predictable manner. Joe biden will be president on january 20th. I really appreciate your clarity, jake. Yamiche, this makes Vice President pences walking of the plank, which is what he will have to do tomorrow, i know all of the reporting at the hour suggests in the end he will abide by the constitution. But ive also been warned the situation remains fluid. And i wonder if you can just take us inside, you know, weve seen reporting from people like both of you and even fictional depictions of what a Pressure Campaign, oneonone, over a meal is like. When trump went to comey, there was a lunch between trump and pence today. Pence has some skilled political hands around him. But theres no way to skin this cat, if you will. Theres no way to please trump and be loyal to american democracy. Vice president pence finds himself in a situation that a lot of people who are loyal to President Trump often find themselves at the end of their relationship with trump. He gives you an ultimatum that is even more than can be done under the constitution. Jeff sessions, when he recused himself, when attorney general bill barr, when he said my department looked at the election, there was no fraud. James comey with the dinner asking about loyalty and him having to make sure he wrote down the notes very quickly to make sure he could understand and document that the president was asking him to do something that he found fundamentally unethical. And the phone call, you see President Trump desperate, you see President Trump in the delusional state where hes yelling at Brad Raffensperger. At one point, the part of that phone call that made me stand up was when he says, come on, fellas. Youre republicans. I just need 11,000 votes. You can just imagine that President Trump is having that same conversation with Vice President pence, saying, look, youre on this ticket, man. Why arent you on my side . We can all imagine that, because weve all seen the president do this at rallies, on twitter. Its up to Vice President pence what he decides to do. Hes obviously one of the people im sure is looking at 2024, and wanting to possibly be president himself. This is a hard decision on his part. But its also, it shouldnt be that hard of a decision. We live in america, where we export our democracy. We go to other countries and teach them how to have democracies. And tomorrow should be a lesson on how to have smooth democracies, but were not sure were going to get that. Jake and yamiche, thank you so much for spending time with us. Up next, well go back to georgia, where voting is still under way. Some republicans home. Dont go anywhere. Anywhere. With the new freestyle libre 2 system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose with a painless, onesecond scan. And now with optional alarms, you can choose to be notified if you go too high or too low. And for those who qualify, the freestyle libre 2 system is now covered by medicare. Ask your doctor for a prescription. You can do it without fingersticks. Learn more at freestyle libre 2 dot u. S. You buy from us, at cayou get the freedomat car of the sevenday return policy. 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Their awardwinning content is tailored to fit your investing goals and interests. And it learns with you, so as you become smarter, so do its recommendations. So its like my streaming service. Well except now youre binge learning. See how you can become a smarter investor with a personalized education from Td Ameritrade. Visit tdameritrade. Com learn with just a little more than two hours to go until polls close in georgia, democrats are feeling cautiously optimistic thanks for a Record Number of early voters there. Now more than 3 million early votes have been cast. Republicans, however, have a little more cautious about what those numbers could mean. Adding to their concerns the president s phone call with Brad Raffensperger on sunday and fear that gop voters who stay home because of trumps mixed messages. Lets go to Shaquille Brewster in georgia, republicanleaning area of that state. What is the feeling on the ground from the voters and what is the anecdotal evidence of turnout . Reporter well, nicolle, let me set up where we are. Were in cherokee count which is a republican strong hold back in november, so two months ago it was a place where President Trump and david perdue earned about 69 of the vote. Just under 70 of that vote. So republicans are excited by what you see behind me which is long lines that have been consistently long throughout the day. This line and the nice lady a couple of minutes ago timed herself and walked over and said it took about 38 minutes to make it from the top of that hill through the line orb through the Polling Center and then back outside. Republicans are probably excited about this as excited as democrats were by the early voting numbers that we saw. You mentioned before those doors even opened, more than 3 Million People in the state already cast their ballot and that is what youre hearing from both sides. It is about turnout and driving the bases, for democrats more in the atlanta and fulton county, Dekalb County and about 69 percent of the vote that President Trump earned in november. That equated to about 99,000 votes. What is the final day of campaigning like . I know senator perdue had contact with someone with covid and trump was in the state last night. President elect biden was there as well. What is does it feel like the last day of a campaign . Reporter oh, it did yesterday. Withouta doubt. And you could tell but the surrogates that w surrogates that came into the state of georgia, talking about Vice President pence and joe biden and President Trump with the rally last night and senator pu purdue has been sidelined because of someone testing positive for the coronavirus and you get the sense when you talk to the voters, the idea that that race is determining the control of the senate. Voters understand the implications of this race. While ive talked to a lot of Republican Voters here it is important to note many of theme are repeating doubt that you hear from trump in terms of the results of november election. But their presence shows for these voters it hasnt impacted the decision to come out and vote. It will all become clear at some point. Shaq brewster, thank you so much. The next hour of our special coverage of the Georgia Special election runoff starts after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Were just getting started. Getd robinhood believes now is the time to do money. Without the Commission Fees so you can start investing today, wherever you are even hanging with your dog. So, what are you waiting for . Download now and get your first stock on us. Robinhood. So give your businesss more than resolutions. Give it solutions, from comcast business. Work more efficiently with fast internet and advanced wifi. Make your business safer with powerful cybersecurity solutions. And stay productive with 24 7 support. Make this years resolution better solutions. Bounce forward with comcast business. Get started with a powerful internet and voice solution for just 64. 90 a month. Plus, for a limited time, ask how to get a 500 prepaid card when you upgrade. Switch today. Hi, again, everyone. It is 5 00 in the east. Our first glimpse into the results of Georgia Senate run yoif races minutes away. Steve kornacki will join us to break down the exit poll data. Polling locations close in two hours. Although georgias seblcretary state has said it is likely the races will not be called until tomorrow morning. A Record Number of more than 3 million early votes have already been cast. That is through mailin ballots and early inperson voting all underscoring the high stakes of the races tonight. The outcome of both crucial in determining what the next two years in washington, d. C. Will look like. They will establish who holds control of the senate and likely shape joe bidens ability and pace that he could enact his agenda. These special races marked by the unique circumstances our country is currently in. Senator david perdue, the republican running against jon ossoff has had to quarantine the past few days because he and his wife were in close contact with someone who tested positive for covid19. And last night the race between reverend Raphael Warnock and Kelly Loeffler heated up when loeffler announced she will object to the certification of joe bidens victory tomorrow. Casting a massive shadow over the Runoff Elections has been donald trump and all of his attempts to subvert democracy. Specifically his call this weekend in which he pressured georgias republican secretary of state to quote, find ballots that would then flip the state in his favor. Big question for today is whether trumps attacks on the election and the election system and his baseless claims of voter fraud will keep any of his republican supporters away from the polls. According to the New York Times, both races could be nail biters. There are some indications that democrats have a bigger share of the early voting electorate raising hopes for a party that has been the underdog in runoff races. And t and the control the senate in the balance as we get our first look into the georgia runoffs is where we start this hour. Priscilla thompson is live at a polling station in smyrna, georgia. Also joining us, alex wagner from the circus and writer to the atlantic and chairman of the Serve America Movement former republican congressman david jolly and strategist aisha mills is back. Steve kornacki will have results when they are ready but i love to hear what youre hearing and seeing on the ground. Reporter in terms of what were seeing, it is not the long lines in the final week of early voting when the line was wrapped around the neighborhood with folks anxious to get in here and cast ballots. Were seeing a steady stream of voters but most folks were surprised to show up and find there was no line. And i think what is interesting about the conversation that ive had with voters is that for many of them it was not necessarily a easy decision here on who they would vote for. I spoke to a number of people who said they liked one candidate but not the other and were almost thinking of splitting the ticket but decided they needed to vote a straight ticket to ensure that whatever party was in office, whichever party they chose, would be able to get something done. And so that is some of what ive heard from voters today. And in terms of issues, you have folks talking about wanting business minded policies and another voter said it is about womens rights and things like that. So two very important races. And as i mentioned, the wait times have not been very high. The secretary of state saying theyre averaging one minute wait at polling locations across the state. And you talked about the president s claims of fraud. I did ask voters about that. And no voters that i spoke to said that it impacts their choice about whether or not they would turn out. And also security, which is another concern as the Georgia Bureau of investigations has said that theyre keeping a close eye on the security of the polling sites and that was another thing, safety is not something that voters said was an issue but recognizing how high stakes the races are and making sure that they made voices heard even if it was on the last day to do so. Alex wagner, you have new sound with Raphael Warnock. Well talk about it on the other side. Youre a son of georgia. President of the United States is saying that the election was a scam and hes dlibteliberatel trying to disenfranchise black voters and people say trump and the Republican Party has done a lot of bad stuff but this feels like Something Else. I think it should motivate all of us to show up. Will it . We need to show up. That is what everybody could do right now. Im outraged by what we heard but the response is to show up when we show up we make sure that our voices are not diminished. The politicians with playing games. And it is more of the same. And only way to correct that is for people to show up. And reclaim their democracy. Im struck watching your interview there, watching jon ossoff on the stump, as recently as yesterday, and over the weekend, watching joe bidens speech, we took that live in our hour, there is so much message discipline and theyre focused on the economy, focused on the pandemic and policy which after four years of trump sounds like a new and a weird thing. But there is no one sort of taking the bait on the trump story. And wondered to you what does that say about where theyre reading the georgia vote . I would say were on the same page, nicolle. I will say, i took three passes at asking reverend warnock about the trump tape and he said it is more of the same, go out and vote. They understand this election is won by having the base turnout and they do not think that while trump is on the horizon is an evil, they do not think he is the driver for georgians going to the poll. They have been so completely focused on their message and their messages dont nationalize this race, lets talk about issues that matter and those are racial justice, covid, health care and education. I talked to jon ossoff this morning, they dont want to talk about raffensperger or pence or 2,000 stimulus checks. They have a pair of democrats with message discipline unlike anything ive seen given the stakes an the chaos sown in washington, d. C. And that used to be a thing. Ip worked in a white house that we do know how to do the message discipline thing, for better or for worse. What is the feeling about what it would mean i dont have any results or crystal ball, Steve Kornacki is going to be along, but it is just tea leaf reading but what is your response about the the historic nature of these two campaigns, these two candidates and should they pull it off tonight and win . Well, i think theyre not coming at this without the hard work of groups like the new georgia project and black voters matters. There has been a years long effort to get people of color to vote in elections and this is kind of the harvest of those efforts. And part of building that Grassroots Movement toward Voter Mobilization and registration has been figuring out what do voter care about, what people of color that dont vote in Runoff Elections, what will get them to care and how to get to where they are and not where we are but these are lessons that the jon ossoff and Raphael Warnock campaigns have learned well. They know it is not the scandal of the National Media but making voters feel like they care about their issues and they will meet them there. I will say as much as we feel like were we are in a moment of crisis, right. Yeah. The message has been one of hope. You have the power and you could change things and the fact that biden turned the state blue in november has given people a taste of success and that is why i think this runoff is maybe different than any other runoff or the last 30 years of runoffs in georgia history. People feel like they are on the cusp of real change and i think the message you could change our democracy, you could make the world you want to see is resonating with people in a way that it hasnt before. Jon ossoff and Raphael Warnock have been disciplined about projecting a sense of optimism and given people a sense that their hand on the lever matter this is january 5th. I want to unpack that and i want to ask you, these stories all seem connected. We have Stacey Abrams and youre right this is years long campaigns and efforts as well as the death of john lewis. But i want to ask you to hang on because our first look at exiting polling in georgia. Were going to turn to Steve Kornacki live at the big board. I saw you tweet that you are not leaving the studio until we have results. Well hold you to that. Ill bring you juice and water and fresh shirts if you need that. I learned to regret that back in november. Lets see if this one goes quicker. We have the first wave of the exit polling. Before i show the numbers, these are not the final exit poll numbers. There are more that will come in over the next few hours so our first glimpse at what this electorate looks like in georgia for the runoff. So lets take you through a couple of different things. The composition in the first wave of the polling, the composition by race, you see a lot of big divide there in georgia when it comes to voting by race. You could see here in the first wave here, 62 of the electorate is white. In november, in the president ial raise in georgia in the final exit poll it was 61 white. So 61 and 62 . Black voters 29 in the exit poll in the biden trump president ial race back in november in georgia, 29 of the electorate was black. So same for black voters, white voters in the first wave of exit polling making up 1 more. Again the numbers could move around a little bit. We have to wait and see as we get subsequent waves. That is one thing from the exit poll. We could show you by age. Take a look at the breakdown by age. So you could see 65 plus and this 24 and the Biggest Group 38 and the Youngest Group of voters and how many will turn out to vote, right here youre seeing 13 . 13 are under 30 years old. In the november election, that number was higher. That number was 20 in the november election. Weve seen this number in particular when we do exit polling, we talk about the subsequent raise and could that raise to 20 and that is a potentially significant drop. That is going to keep an eye on it. Does it tick up or get close to the 20 or fall and short of that. So keep an eye on that one. One another to show, the question was asked, just given the climate of the runoff and everything the president is saying and doing here, do you have confidence that your vote is going to be counted accurately . 42 of voters today say they are very very confident and that is about three quarters of the electorate expressing some degree of confidence about the vote count and then about a quarter of the electorate saying they are not that confident or not at all confident. So about a three quarters to one quarter split on that question. That tells you that it is not exactly a partisan divide on that question. I have 37 followup questions but ill keep it to two. One of the things i learned from november watching you do math in your head was the outstanding vote in november representing the early vote. What is the case in georgia . How much of what we know when the early vote will be counted . Georgia is different than the other states folks might remember from november. In that tonight this is going to vary by county. So what we saw back in november and what we expect tonight is there are some counties that shortly after the polls close at 7 00, theyll release all of or most of the mailin vote for that county. There are other counties that decide to wait until the end of the night. And at midnight or 1 00 in the morning, Something Like that, will release the mail vote there. Some counties will start out with the votes cast same day. The sequence, weve been calling around and talking to different county officials trying to get a sense of this and the answer is it is all over the map here. So weve got some sense of which counties are going to do it which way, as i stand here at 7 00, 8 00 and the votes will coming in, ill give you guidance but that is an important point because for folks watching coverage tonight, it is not just enough when youre seeing partial returns from the counties come in tonight, it you see 50 of the vote in from a county it is important to see how the two candidates are doing but the most important question to answer when you see partial returns from any county is what vote is this . Am i looking at the mail or same day vote or a combination. That could be challenge in some of the counties. It is the nature in georgia. It would be very opaque but well do our best to take you through it with the question in mind. What is the vote were looking at now and what is the type of vote still to come here because that is going to be the variables that decide the election. And i think of that when i look at you kind of making some of these carve offs and comparing them to november it is difficult to have meaningful comparisons to november until we have a full representation of the vote, is that good sort of caution at this early hour . Absolutely. Here is what we want to do as the votes start coming in. Keep an eye out for, when we start getting completed counties, and last night trump was in north georgia, the heart of republican country, when we get a couple of completed counties and we want to see how many were cast in Whitfield County and what percentage does that account for . At 80 of the november turnout or 70 . You want to get a sense of that and compare it once we get a handful of democratic counties in. Is one higher than the other. Are there more democratic turnout in the democratic counties than the republican. That is the kind of thing we have to get some completed counties up on the board to see but that is a major question were tracking as soon as the polls close. I know you have so much ahead of you. Could i ask you to stick around. I want to just come back to you alex wagner on your point about really decades, generations of work by some of the groups to lead to tonight. And i wonder if there is anything that you saw in steves early report that gives you me indication of how that has gone . Well, look, i talked to the campaigns about how theyre looking at these early numbers and they have their own math. Their going to be looking intently at trump areas of the state to see what those numbers are. Because i think internally they have a number that they think is democratic votes that have come in early. And they want to know how that tallies against what happens in parts of the state that dont favor the democrats, right. They think they know where the baseline is at. At this point, nobody in any campaign believes this is a short night. They think it is a long night. Were talking about multiple changes of clothes, maybe not for Steve Kornacki because he loves those khakis. But there is no polling in georgia for a Runoff Election and even the polling that we had in november was not that reliable. So i do want to touch on something that you talked about before and i dont think we fully put our stamp on it which is it is something that you hear repeated a lot on this campaign trail by the democrats but will say it for people who arent down in laeatlanta which is the jewish son of an immigrant and the black pastor of Martin Luther king jr. s, church may be elected to the senate. And at time of tumult and america has become a country that people dont recognize, progress is being made in the same way that is a white man in politics forever and standing aside and maybe the president of the senate is the jamaican indian daughter of immigrants. America is two americas. But it is moving in a different direction and a lot of the tension were seeing and the tumult is a result of that changing america, of the seesaw tipping and georgia is the locust of that right now and it is hard and chaotic but it is a beautiful thing to watch the struggle. Alex wagner just gave me the feels. And i think we have such a hard time, i spoke for myself i have a hard time articulating in the blur and the flurry and the rage of the coup attempt on the other side, is this arc of history bending in the right direction in the view of a lot of americans before we know any of the results and before we start counting by county and grabbing on to what we know when the answer is not very much yet. Your thoughts about tonight . Yeah, i think i completely agree with everything that alex was just saying. And this is a historic moment. That moral arc of the universe that you talk about always hopefully bends toward justice. At least toward a diverse representation which is what were seeing in Kamala Harris and down in georgia. And here is the thing, is that the people of georgia may know it. We may miss that because donald trump takes up a lot of toxic nasty air in the room but theyre inspired because they put those two historic candidates in place in the first place. The thing that were also fighting against, because we have this righteousness of change in the winds really on our side i think as Diverse People in this country, is that were also now faced with the nasty underbelly of georgia, of america that is surfacing and able to kind of fight that head on in a way that at least for me feels a bit cathartic to show up when you know that purd due had a bunch of white nationalists out there stumping for him and didnt think much about it. So be able to show up at the polls and say im directly going to vote against that nasty menace, there is something that feels empowering about that. To have agency in our lives to shift the winds of change is what wee see playing out in georgia that makes voters feel like it matters. So donald trump or anyone else could claim that the elections are false and that there was compete cheating but when your ballot has been counted and your efforts have put people in place the balance of the power of the United States senate is in your hands and you just switched the state and elected joe biden, that iss tha that is invigorating. Steve just showed us that the youth turnout is lower than significantly for the general and im watching that. Because just a week ago we saw that the early vote numbers showed that so many more people were voting in the runoff than voted that had not actually voted in the general election. So presumably there was a coming of age and a first time voters that was able to participate just within a month. And so i was thinking that there might be some Youth Movement in those numbers. That is definitely one to watch. But we could note, that no matter who wins that history is made in georgia and were all on the wings of la tasha brown and Stacey Abrams down there to mobilize black voters in particular. David jolly, perdue and loeffler are now significantly to the right of dick cheney and don rumsfeld on the question of whether democracy itself matters. Rumsfeld and chainy penned an oped with every other living secretary of defense that they articulated that the vote is over. Loeffler and perdue are in another time zone from what used to be the far right position of the Republican Party. How do you see the outcome tonight shaping the future . Yeah, well and the contrast of the moment, i mean, im listen to alex and aisha talk about the transformative moment brought to the nation by the Democratic Party out of the deep south state of georgia and im thinking back to the discipline messaging if there is any and it is all about radical socialism which maybe works in a republican primary but the disconnect between reaching for the future and just the insulting narrative that were hearing from republicans is fascinating and it shows that the lack of depth in todays Republican Party and then you layer on what were seeing from trump and the republicans trying to contest the election. You ask about the future and well watch this horse race all night but we could not overstate the significance of what the results mean. If republicans hold, Mitch Mcconnell will stop all of the big agenda items of joe biden. It is done. There is no big ticket items joe biden gets done. They will make significant changes in labor and health care and Consumer Protection through the Administrative State through rule making through the annual budget that must get through congress but there is no major legislation. If democrats take these two seats tonight, the shot in the arm to democrats, even though it is a 50 50 senate will be dramatic. The amount of momentum behind a joe biden agenda will be significant tonight. And so well watch the horse race and dissect georgia turning blue but at the end of the day the entire nation is impacted and Joe Bidens Administration hangs in the balance on the results in georgia tonight. You have all made me feel variety of hope and fear and keen interest in watching everything that shakes out tonight. Thank you so much. Weve lost Steve Kornacki to the big board. They are now one for the rest of the night. David jolly is sticking around. When we come back, big challenge as head, how to reach tens of millions people fed a big fat light about Election Fraud by donald trump. Plus trumps assault on democracy now raising fears among allies around the world. Not just that hes trying to steal an election he clearly lost, but that so many republicans are helping him do it. And the number of americans hospitalized with covid19 hits a new high. It is a troubling sign as Health Officials grapple with containing the more contagious strain of the virus. Deadline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. T go anywhere. Let me tell you something, i wouldnt be here if i thought reverse mortgages took advantage of any american senior, or worse, that it was some way to take your home. Learn how homeowners are strategically using a reverse Mortgage Loan to cover expenses, pay for healthcare, preserve your portfolio and so much more. A reverse Mortgage Loan isnt some kind of trick to take your home. 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To learn more, go to sleepnumber. Com. Mr. President , there where are where americans that believe the results are legitimate. In the gentleman from florida has a point of order, he may state the point of order at this time otherwise the gentleman will suspend. May god bless our new president and our new Vice President and may god bless the United States of america. That was then Vice President al gore presiding over what pence is supposed to preside over tomorrow. Gore was on the ballot in a narrow defeat result and in that clip he shoots down an attempt to contest the certification of the vote. Vice president of both parties have to oversee this every four years. Thanks to Donald Trumps refusal to acknowledge reality and the willingness of so many republicans to aid and abet his request to overturn the election result, all eyes are on mike pence tomorrow. Trump has been putting the squeeze on him insisting that pence can throw out joe bidens victory even though pence cant. He has no authority to do so. And while the push by some republicans to object to the vote is all but certain to fail it may cause more harm to our democracy, to our country. One prominent d. C. Attorney telling the New York Times is the sedition caucus goes forward with their attack on the 2020 election abetted by the Vice President it would torque our democracy for years to come. Joining our conversation, jonathan swan, and matt visor. Jonathan swan, i follow your twitter feed for all of your reporting that you jgenerously dump into it. What is the latest on the Pressure Campaign on the president to his number two. That is the nicest thing ive ever heard about my twitter feed. The back story here is interesting and weve reported it on axy os. The president didnt realize pence had this role until very recently. And the way he found out about it was the Lincoln Project came up with this ad in which they called the ad pence and they ran it just in the d. C. Market. Mostly on trumps favorite shows on fox designed for an audience of one. And the ad sort of over the top ominous framing points out to their audience of one that pence actually plays this role and will be sort of putting the ceremonial sound of death to President Trumps presidency. Trump sees this ad, becomes enraged and begins to take this up with mike pence privately. In a number of conversations, he asked mike pence to send cease and desist letters to the Lincoln Project which he doesnt do and starts asking pence to object when he has to certify the results. Pence has been resisting but trump has become more and more irritated and now it is seeping out into public and you saw that last night in the rally in georgia. You saw that today. And the thing im picking up from allies of mike pence is theyre worried that after four years of basically tieing himself to trumps hip, never doing anything disloyal, be in fact mocked by many for what many have described as sub servience, but at this last moment which is completely symbolic, which he has no constitutional role to overturn the results they are worried the president is going to exact revenge and damage him politically for potentially 2024. It is unbelievable but it is totally believable. If you look at pence story, his political marriage to donald trump began when he had to bite his lip, would you guess until it bled and stand by him when the access Hollywood Tape came out and trump refused to apologize or interview. They scheduled one and they canceled it. So that is pences bet on the guy on the access Hollywood Tape who talked about when you are famous you could grab women in the bleep. It is not just a Pressure Campaign. It is bullying. It is online pressure. It is turning trumps voters against pence. At the rally last night, if you saw it, this is clearly a threat. And i just wonder, is all of your reporting still that pence is do what is he supposed to do, which is nothing, simply read the results of the vote. Our friends at the New York Times have had a great line today comparing mike pence to the person at the Academy Awards who reads out the winner. He has no role in deciding who the winner is. It is a ceremony task where he is just sort of announcing who won. And so he doesnt have much of a role. He doesnt have much control. But as jonathan was pointing out, mike pence is tied himself to trump so closely for four years. With the idea that he would be blessed at the end of inheriting the base that donald trump has tapped into. And now in the final throes of trumps presidency, you have the potential that all of that time that mike pence has spent tieing himself to trump could all be for not. And it is sort of in line with trumps whole history, his biography of using people when their useful and when their not, cutting them off at knees. An this is potentially another instance of that where hes frustrated that mike pence cant do something that mike pence has no power to actually do. So it is a really remarkable moment for pence, for trump, for the Republican Party, and as well see transpire tomorrow. Jonathan swan, my impression was always that pence survived this far because he had some advisers who were frankly better than anybody that worked for the president. But it is my impression that even those superior political advisers and outside voices are now in a corner. Just tell me what is happening in trump world . Are they all on call, monitoring trumps twitter feed or learning things from reporters like yourself, is going on . There is a limit amount they could do here. The law is clear, pences role it so count. It is to count. As matt said, it is entirely say ceremonial. And trump because hes been getting very creative and fairly cookie fringe legal opinions searching for the small slither of lawyers who will give him the information that he wants, is convinced that pence could somehow unilaterally overturn the results of the election and trump is being hes now seeking out the voices who are going to tell him what he wants to hear and hes not listening to anyone who tells him other wise. So pence really has no unless he wants to sort of stand up there and create a temper tantrum and do things that are illegal, if he basically does what the constitution asked him to do, he is inevitably going to get on the wrong side of President Trump. And so you then get into conversations privately about, well, procedure, does it help him that there are going to be a republican objections which he could then sort of verbally sign off on, they go off into their chambers and have two hours of debate and come back, and that might help him, but they know what donald trump who he is and that there is a good chance that hes going to be vindicive and take vengeance upon pence. This is what a circular firing squad looks like. Thank you so much. When we come back, as donald trump stakes a sledgehammer to democracy, mr. Are worried about what he will do next and shocked that so many republicans are going along with it. That story is next. Your groomers cant keep up. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base. So, you can start hiring right away. Claim your seventyfivedollar credit when you post your first job at indeed. 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Use it to eliminate monthly mortgage payments pay of credit card bills, medical costs and more. With a reverse mortgage you can pay whatever you can when it works for you, or you can wait and pay it off in one lump sum when you leave your home. Find out more, call aag for your free information kit im proud to be a part of aag. I trust em. I think you can too. Call now if only we could just erase the trump years as a brief albeit embarrassing episode in our countrys history. It wont be that easy. Yes the framers prepare ford a want to be dictator like donald trump but did they envision where so many others will play along. Imagine what theyre saying on the assault in the rule of america. To observers the kroer ossive acts are not isolated to trump but extend to the deepen ablers around him and the white house and his party and even to an American Public where significant numbers themselves believe that their democrat has been compromise pd and could not be trusted. The dangers that entail for allies will not be dispelled with a new president. Joining our conversation is msnbc contributor and former Deputy National security adviser ben rhodes and david jolly is back. And when i think about what President Biden will contend with and that is leading a country where millions of people believe the lies that have been fed to them and i dont say this in any sympathy to them, they should be accountable for Getting Better quality information but it is a systemic problem akin to reaching into any near radicalized group and i wonder what you think about both the concern among allies and the challenge that it represents for President Biden. Well, nicolle, when i traveled around the world in the trump years, one of the things i found is what concerns American Allies is not just the fact that donald trump is president , it is the fact that he was elected president and that the party has fully backed everything that donald trump has done. At a time, when countries like china and russia are very aggressively seeking to undermine the very concept of democracy. And seeking to bring an if alternative authoritarian and corrupt model into places like europe and the United States through the disinformation campaigns and the influence and the United States has been the country that imperfectly sought to promote and help dissidents in other countries and punish leaders who refused to recognize results of democratic elections and the message now is do as i say, not as i do when it comes to lindsey graham, what credibility does he or frankly the Republican Party have to ever lecture another country about democracy after what were seeing now. So the problem is two fold. It is one, countries are looking at this and thinking well even if we could get along with joe biden, what happens if this returns in 2024. But secondly, more intangibly has america lost any credibility to lecture countries and the answer is yes. We can no longer be that shining city on a hill even if joe biden takes president. We have to do the work here at home. Lindsey graham used to make sure that america could stand with democracy threatened by Vladimir Putin and the audacity if they tried to do that again, they havent stood with the american democracy and not willing to oppose Donald Trumps attempt at a coup. What do you make and it is not good for our allies or our enemies when there is such a divide, it is not good for friends or allies when there is a partisan bend to our foreign policy. What does that por tend in your view for joe bidens foreign policy, ben . Well, i think it makes it much more complicated. Because already is there a trust of an agreement signed by a american president. President trump tried to throw out anything previous president s negotiated. And in the back of every head of every adversary is im looking at republicans over joe bidens shoulder getting ready to run in 2024 and they might come in and junk the agreements themselves and then when joe biden gets on the phone to a foreign leader who refused to accepts the results of an election and ive been in the room when barack obama had to make those calls and it doesnt always work but sometimes we can make a difference and nudge countries in the direction of democracy and human rights. Those leaders will say to him, well look at your democracy, who are you to lecture us about hong kong protests or the election in belarus was that was fraudulent. So well hear back from other countries that we dont want to hear any more lectures from america. And david jolly, that is true, american president s have on a sheet for a call with a foreign leader all sorts of issues like the ones that ben is talking about and they go beyond honoring elections or making sure that elections are free and fair. They include not jailing reporters, they include not poisoning or jailing dissidents. Donald trump has betrayed almost every fundamental tent ant of democracy. He has. And his legacy has been forged and well remember him for that and the Republican Party is a broken party but performing as strong as ever which suggests that our politics are so broken that were willing to accept that type of leader in donald trump. But i dont want to pivot this to democrats responsible but i want to paint two pictures if joe biden is talking to foreign leaders. One is aworld in which donald trump goes unchecked and the other is a world where donald trump is checked and i mean by that that a house of representatives should impeach him now a second time for his phone call to the secretary of state and they could say there is a party in the United States that tries to hold him accountable. But in the silence, and the narrative from Hakeem Jeffries that were not looking backwards, were looking forward, this is a crime right now for which the house of representatives could impeach donald trump. A world in which donald trump at least faces an attempt to be held accountable here in the United States to provide a different type of credibility for joe biden to represent the values of u. S. On the foreign stage. We need an hour to have this conversation and would you like to take that hour and get both of you to commit to being a part of it. Ip think that feeds into everything. And i wonder personally if that is part of what explains a very slow and clearly deliberate process around joe bidens selection of an attorney general and because the question are we still a country that cares about the rule of law and all of the questions are on the line. I only have eight minutes left in the program. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. When we return, more americans are hospitalized with covid right now than at any other time since the pandemic began. Experts are warning that those numbers could get worse. Well be back with that story next. You have a powerful partner. New aveeno® restorative skin therapy. A unique formula with a rich complex of aloe, vitamin b5 and our highest concentration of prebiotic oat. It intensely moisturizes over time to improve skins resilience. And nothing feels better than that. Aveeno® healthy. Its our nature™. Try the dermatologisttested body wash and balm, too it been now more than one month since us as a we down dco had fewer than 100,000 americans hospitalized with covid19. Today its 128,000, the most of the entire pandemic, a record of 23,000 of them are in intensive care. As experts warn of a post holiday surge that will jolt us into a pandemic we dont even recognize, how much worse can it actually get . Headlines like this today in Southern California where icu capaci capacity is at zero. First responders told not to bring patients to hospital if survival chances are low. The u. S. Surpassed 21 million cases. More than 355,000 americans lost their lives to covid. More than 18,000 in just the last week. For some perspective, the u. S. Seen the most covid deaths in the world and now even more in the second and third world countries combined. Joining us, an Infectious Disease physician and medical director with special pathogens at boston medical center. Shes also an associate professor at Boston University school of medicine. Why is it so bad here right now . Nicole, were seeing the result of the Holiday Travel on top of what were seeing is a large amount of Community Transmission before thanksgiving and christmas and now, you know, when i want to warn people is the numbers are going to go up partly because potentially with the cases and deaths, there is a lag in reporting during the holidays. I expect the numbers will shoot up. The scariest thing to me, as you know, we have about five states that have reported this new very ye variant and with holidays, that traveled with people when they traveled across the country. What youre likely to see is more cases leading to more hospitalizations and a portion of those may lead to more deaths. We are in parts of the country facing a collapse of the health care system. Thats what that is when you have to choose between patients and who survives, thats what that is. Thats the crisis of the standard of care. What, if any, offers an off ramp for our country right now . The vaccines. Look, we got the vaccine, and now we have to get this vaccine into peoples arms and on average, youre seeing onethird of the vaccines distributed to states in peoples arms and the thing i keep coming back to, if this is a Natural Disaster or a National Security issue, you see federal agencies and state agencies set up, emergency trucks to get vaccinations in peoples arms and i wonder why isnt we doing this . More people have died in this pandemic than any war or any Natural Disaster in this country and really, sure, it might have been a lag because of the fact we only just started in the complex nightmare but we really should be opening up whatever we can to get this vaccinations in arms to stay ahead of whats likely to be a coming stream of new infections from the strain and Holiday Travels and keep following the Public Health measures. What is your ending why the shipments arent ending up in peoples arms . To me, the Biggest Issue right now seems to be the fact that there arent enough administration sites. You heard Governor Newsom said they are opening new sites and governor santos said it because currently people are only getting vaccines from hospitals and pharmacies, both which are pretty strapped. The vaccines are going through existing Health Care Delivery structures and what we need is a state organized federally supported increased number of sites where people can get these vaccines in their arms to get it out quicker. Doctor, thank you for your expertise and spending time with us. We will be right back. D spendinh us we will be right back. Where did it come from . You know im not sure. Whos peter samuel . Daddy . Yeah . Whos peter . Well sweetie, hes your greatgreat grandfather. Does he look like me . Yeah. Yeah . Yeah. Turn questions youve always had into stories you cant wait to share; with ancestry. 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