Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline White House 20201117

Eventually become an illegal attempt at election interference by the president s most subservient ally in the senate. Watching the news that prominent republicans leaned on the georgia secretary of state, also a republican, exclude legitimate ballots from being counted from the blockbuster report. Secretary Brad Raffensperger said he is under increasing pressure recent days from fellow republicans, including senator Lindsey Graham who he said questioned the validity of legally cast absentee ballots in effort to reverse President Trumps narrow loss in the state. Raffensperger said he was stunned graham appeared to suggest that he find a way to toss legally cast ballots. Today a witness to that call has come forward. He works in the secretarys offense, confirming graham did pursue the line of inquiry raffensperger describes, adding he couldnt speak to grahams state of mind or his intentions. But secretary raffensperger says he believes it was perfectly clear what graham was trying to achieve and it is worth keeping in mind that raffensperger is known as a staunch conservative, one that donald trump himself endorsed in 2018. Heres his version of that exchange with Lindsey Graham and why he says it is so significant. Senator graham asked to audit envelopes, throw them out for counties with the highest frequen frequency of signatures. A lot of people spinning up the crowd used to be democrats. I have always been a conservative republican, i want to be sure we have a lawful process. I think integrity still matters. Lindsey graham is spinning away today, maintaining he was simply seeking clarity on another states signature matching laws, but grahams intervention in a neighboring state is completely in line with Donald Trumps ailing National Legal strategy to falsify and manufacture Election Fraud. In a comment to the Washington Post, raffensperger addressed his disgust over threats to his life as georgia undergoes a hand recount that has no real chance of erasing joe bidens more than 14,000 vote victory there. Quote, other than getting you angry, its also very disillusioning, he said of the threats, particularly when it comes to people on my side of the aisle. Everyone thats working on this needs to elevate their speech, we need to be thoughtful and careful about what we say. That warning falling on deaf ears today at the white house where the president continues to tweet fictional claims of Election Fraud. The state official with more courage in his Little Finger than the rest of the trump gop is where we start. Jonathan lemire is here, and senator mccains long time adviser, speech writer, chief of staff, and amy stoddard, columnist for real clear politics. I have to start with you, mark stalter, ask you what happened to Lindsey Graham, i have this sense, i spent a lot of time as did you in the back of a suburban with lindsey and senator mccain and lindsey views himself delusionally i might add as a fixer, totally in line with the way he tries to become relevant to the politicians he at the time feels loyal to. Right. He does have a tendency to insert himself in controversies better left to stay out of. Out of deference to old times, he denied it, ill, if i cant take his word for it, i wont call him a liar. No serious politician could make a claim that theyre asking questions because they have doubts about the integrity of the election. Clear to everybody this was a fine election, nothing wrong with it, it is all nonsense. To that extent i think lindsey is spinning it a little bit. Whether he went in and tried to get lawful votes thrown away i dont know. I will say this, the secretary of state has shown something thats in short supply in the Republican Party, political courage. It is true. Amy stoddard, whats stark about the state official is that he is holding the line on the integrity of a vote because it is his job to maintain the integrity of the vote, so his account carries tremendous weight in what is clear fiction, donald trump hasnt conceded what mark salter articulated is a clear and decisive defeat. He called his own electoral margin which was the same as bidens in 2020 a landslide. He has been defeated in a landslide by his own definitions, and the conduct is in line with the largely losing legal strategy. Rudy giuliani was just dealt another blow, Pennsylvania Supreme Court in a 53 decision knocked down another one of their cases which had been narrowed, amended, i think on the third or fourth set of attorneys. Theyre not making any ground in the courts. They have not been able to find or manufacture any fraud, so this is very much in line with the white house effort. Right. It is interesting if you look at what the secretary of state of georgia is saying. He is vouching for his own system which he believes put on a free and Fair Election without medium, wide scale or tiny fraud that would make a difference in the numbers. He is protecting his team that worked in a primary during pandemic, general election during a pandemic. I interviewed him months ago about mail in balloting, they were working extremely hard to make it work for as many people as possible given the risk of infection, and he knows what you just described, nicole, which is that no fraud is being presented in these cases. Many of the cases, suits are being dropped and cases are losing. The lawyers are quitting. And what President Trump and his sons and people describe on social media isnt being presented by his legal team in court and they dont have anything thats standing up in court. So secretary raffensperger knows this as he is talking, but the threats, the Death Threats he is under, the political pressure he is under, people telling him you better get the recount life or his life could be in danger, then there will be runoffs january 5th, he is taking a bunch of crap from congressman doug collins. He is facing enormous head winds from the Trump Campaign, the crazy tweets every day, i won the election. Lindsey graham on the telephone. So mark is right, its not just, i mean, he knows that, he understands and appreciates and is confident in the integrity of his own election and then of those in pennsylvania and other places and nationally but he is in an incredible spot and will be until january 5th. Took a lot in this era for him to come out, say what he said, be explicit about Death Threats, about what Lindsey Graham told him. I mean, he is sort of the 2020 Election Integrity hero that we least expected but it is notable. Strikes me, amy, listening to what is a spot on analysis of why this is such a big deal, why this is where we are starting today, it is as much a commentary on how screwed up Everything Else is. He is in essence just doing his job. Has nothing to gain politically. Thats what makes it a stunning story, that this i am perils him politically, but were gobsmacked somebody is still doing their job. What does it say about the rest of the Republican Party . Oh, this is such a shameful time, so much worse than we could have imagined, when raffensperger says integrity still matters, we are gobsmacked he is telling the truth, going to the press, telling what he is going through, but we watched kevin mccarthy, House Republican leader, we watched senator mcconnell, the Republican Senate leader, we watched leaders of the Republican Party. We may say to the 71, 2, 3 million that voted for President Trump, well, he has the right to pursue these remedies in court, what theyre not saying is everything he is telling you about stolen election is a lie and this was a free and Fair Election. We will get through legal remedies in court, hes allowed to pursue that. What he told you november 5th and several days later and this week is a lie. It should not be allowed and it is not only an effort to delegitimize joe biden but to basically trash every future election in this proud democracy so that is whats so stunning. Raffensperger knows the entire party is waiting until after the georgia runoff and i wonder, nicolle, if theyll say joe biden won a free and Fair Election. Theres some reporting in the Washington Post that suggests that privately thats exactly what theyre saying. Jonathan lemire, i know it is happening at the white house, it appears donald trump is hold up main lining his fantasies to his allies in the media and tragically there are plenty of people consuming them, spitting them back out. I want to drill down a little bit on Lindsey Grahams response because as mark said, he did deny the intent of the call, didnt deny he called a state he doesnt represent and probe about their signature matching policies. Let me play my colleague, garrett haake, with Lindsey Graham. Did you or did you not ask him to throw out votes . No, thats ridiculous. I talked about how you verify signatures. Right now, a Single Person verifies signatures and i suggested if you go forward, can you change it to make sure that a Bipartisan Team verifies signatures and if theres a dispute, come up with a field process. Why is the senator from South Carolina calling the state of georgia . The future of the country hangs in the balance. Does it . It really does. So let me just add, recount does exactly what Lindsey Graham just said, he was alive, if i was alive for the florida recount, he was too. He knows exactly a Bipartisan Group looks at it. Thats what the recount does. You have observers. Every lawsuit that the Trump Campaign brought about lack of observers was thrown out of court because there isnt lack of observers. There are republican observers. Trump campaign observers in every counting room they want to be in. They were denied access to none. Why is Lindsey Graham lying. Let me read you the admission from Lindsey Graham, jonathan lemire, he is calling around other states was described by walter shob, former director of office of ethics this way. Grahams response is a damning admission. Chairman of the Judiciary Committee has no business quietly contacting an elected member of his party responsible for an ongoing count of ballots to discuss the legitimacy of mailin votes. This misconduct should not be tolerated. Graham has also been fishy, making it sound like i do this all the time. Said he has spoken to secretaries of state in nevada, arizona, arizona secretary of state immediately tweeted this is false. I have not spoken with Lindsey Graham. Whats the theory of the case there . Well, it is puzzle. Last i checked, senator graham doesnt represent any of those states you just mentioned, certainly not georgia. Lets also take a step back, remind viewers that recounts rarely change the vote totals. Theres no suggestion that donald trump is going to win any of these states. Certainly theres focus now on georgia because of the Senate Runoff, but it seems like another display of loyalty from senator graham to President Trump, the outgoing president , trying to stay on his good side as the president heads towards the exit, kicking and screaming. We know that senator graham has come under fire from conservative media, Tucker Carlson week or so back unloaded on him in the evening on one of his programs and i think some people around the president suggest this is graham trying to stay as close as possible in final days to ward off any threats on the right even though he won reelection, and has now six years, you wouldnt think you have to worry about this. It shows President Trumps continued hold on the vast majority of the Republican Party, and which is why so many people, including someone like graham who as chairman of the Judiciary Committee could nudge the president toward the exit and conceding, nudge him towards offering joe biden the transition keys and also Intelligence Briefings that are vital to National Security here, particularly in the time of the paemd. But he is not doing that. Neither is mcconnell or other influential republicans that seem terrified of President Trumps twitter account and hold he has on the party, whether or not trump actually declares that he will run again, the mere speculation that he might seems to be enough to scare other republicans not wanting to alienate his base and wont challenge him. It puts raffenspergers conduct in more extraordinary light. One person he never had hold of was john mccain. Something his widow, cindy mccain told the Washington Post, she had to come out for biden as he described wounded and Fallen Soldiers as losers and suckers. I was oversees once a month or more. I watched demise of respect for our country around the globe, watch us leave our allies on the battlefield, you say were better than that. Finally theres no explanation any more. That was very much the case with me. There were so many people like my husband and so many millions of other people that served so nobly and to have it tossed by someone that i dont think understands what it means to have served, this sentiment is playing out real time with Donald Trumps seeming last acts of withdrawing troops from hot spots all over the world. What do you hear privately around john mccains inner circle, so many heard what he said about senator mccain and soldiers that give their lives, none of those accounts were ever really successfully disprove en, even though donald trump denied them. It is very discouraging. I dont think a lot of people in the military overlooked it, i dont think a lot of veterans overlooked it. Well wait and see months from now, once exit polls, waiting for turnout, i think he lost a lot of votes that way. Cindy was channeling john in that. I remember john had a lot of disagreements with trump, the one i was probably hottest over and most effected by was his attack of the family. I would think people that dont call him out are disgracing the party as well, you know. Notable exceptions, mitt romney and others, you think sometimes it is appalling. I dont know what it means for the party, if the party is going to recover from this. What would john be doing right now if you were still talking to him on the phone during these extraordinary times, during this election that donald trump refuses to concede as the author of what john said to me was your best speech, his concession speech, what do you think he would be saying and doing, would he be out there urging republicans to accept reality, to congratulate joe biden . You know, i have always been reluctant to put him in a contemporary context, say how he would act, but i have no doubt he would make clear whats unmistakably obvious, that joe biden won a decisive victory, going to be president , needs to get Intelligence Briefings, transition needs to begin and lets get on with it and move on. Mccain was a man that had a sense of responsibility to the country and sense of history, something thats utterly missing in the party with a few exceptions, but otherwise generally missing in the country. That concession speech, thats the first thing he felt he was as a defeated candidate, had a responsibility to the country to make clear not only does he accept his defeat but recognizes the significance of obamas victory. It was important of him to be effected by that history. Donald trump is a man of zero responsibility, reckless, irresponsible guy whose fragile psyche takes nourishment from the countrys distress. He is going to try to burn it all down before he goes. One thing for a guy with his psychological problems but for republicans just to cynically turn from it, think they dont have responsibility to move on, tell the country whats obvious, let half the country, a third of the country believe somehow our elections are no longer fair and clean, it is as reckless and irresponsible as trump has been. It is truly remarkable. Reading your book as i am, just reminded that the party wasnt always like this, but now it will always be stained by this. Thank you so much for starting us off. Grateful to all of you. Why senator graham might be trying hard to meddle in election results. He and colleagues are sounding alarm bells hanging on to slim majority rule in the senate. We talk with the reporter with the big scoop. And trumps barrage of false hoods and disinformation shows no signs of slowing down. How to stop the spread of president ial lies. Plus, new coronavirus records being broken every single day. Grim statistics as we head into the holiday season, as the country remains more divided. All those stories when deadline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. S after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. With this seal, this restaurant is committing to higher levels of cleanliness. The expertise that helps keep hospitals clean, is helping keep businesses clean too. Look for the ecolab science certified seal. Donald trumps refusal to concede the presidency to joe biden generally and specifically the race in georgia, false claims of victory and voter fraud have Republican Leaders worried the president could be a burden on the states two u. S. Senate runoffs. The Washington Post is reporting the races were recently the focus of a private call with Republican Leaders and strategists and donors where senator david perdue underscored a trump loss, telling attendees that the party needs core republican general election voters back to polls, saying thats always a hard thing to do in a president ial year, particularly this year given that President Trump it looks like now may not be able to hold out. Joining us, former democratic congressman doanna edwards. Tell us about the phone call, recreate this. The article is extraordinary. Karl rove still involved in Senate Republican campaigns was on the phone, offering advice, two candidates were talking about challenges. Explain. The phone call occurred on november 10th, it was held by senator perdue, senator loeffler, and karl rove who is running fundraising for two Senate Runoff races in georgia. In belief, it was a glimpse into the actual gop perspective on georgia right now, and there is alarm inside the gop because they see a new diverse electorate in georgia that helped lift president elect biden, almost powered Stacey Abrams into the Governors Mansion in 2018, and they see President Trump as diminished, even as they stand with him publicly and his defiance, they know he may not be enough to get them across the finish line. Donna, great line in this. Robert acosta, it is revealing of the republican dilemma in the winter of trumps presidency. Fear of offending him and fervent supporters hovering over a cold political reality. Do you think that cold political reality results in democratic victories in georgia . Well, i think democrats are super excited about the prospects. I have been talking with georgia democrats, groups on the ground, and i think they see an enthusiasm in requesting and getting absentee ballots. They see people are charged for whats ahead based on the performance both in Stacey Abrams race for governor but also in joe bidens victory in georgia, so they see a lot of opportunity. On the other hand, for republicans you have them attacking their secretary of state around the president ial, President Trump not accepting results of the election, so republicans want the candidates to run their races, also throw a fig leaf to donald trump and supporters about the election results. It is a disaster for republicans. I think that they really discount the fact that those were trump voters that showed up for donald trump in georgia. They were not republican voters, they were trump voters. I think theyre rightfully concerned about getting enthusiasm up, and democrats dont share the same concern. Thats a good point. Robert costa, your paper had this extraordinary scoop about the secretary of states phone call from Lindsey Graham. I want to play his comment about the lies being told by republicans about that states vote, the integrity of the georgia vote. Let me play that. People out there make bold faced lies, you have to call it out with facts. Were basically fact bombing them with the truth. So this is a very conservative republican in georgia fact bombing, well, i dont know if you call it conservative, but trumpy republicans. Name names like doug collins. Had some of the harshest attacks for doug collins, basically accusing Lindsey Graham of asking him to throw out ballots. We will see not a war but front in the battle between republicans who still believe, i dont know that you have seen Something Like this burst into public in such a dramatic fashion. What do you make of the fight in georgia . You know who does notice this dynamic in georgia is senator david perdue. He says on the phone call he needs to do a better job, republicans need to do a better job in the Runoff Election of winning over what he calls the antitrump voters, moderate republican in the atlantic suburbs. White voter, business person, working mother who doesnt like President Trumps rhetoric, doesnt like how he is contesting the integrity of the election, so they have to pull that person back. The challenge for senator purdue and loeffler, theyre so much now in the trump camp, rallying to his side that theyre not speaking to all Georgia Republican voters, and the episode with the secretary of state is so revealing about how the republican vote in georgia is not necessarily a monolith. To that point, theyre complaining a lot of people moved to the state from the northeast, but Stacey Abrams is sort of the why. I mean, turning out the democratic vote, keeping that effort up in those awful election years, seems like if revenge is a dish best served cold, shes maybe having her ice cold serving of how competitive and hard it is for the republicans who probably at one point thought they would be easily sailing to reelection in georgia. I think stacy knows and certainly the campaigns of warnock and ossoff know that the key to winning both those races is really going to be turnout. It is interesting, the interplay between ossoff and warnock. Each one of them brings out a different part of the democratic electorate. Together, they can win the elections. At the same time, youve got the republican senators, you know, so busy in this muck of the president ial recount and attacks on the secretary of state, they havent focused on the campaign and turning out their voters. I see a lot of energy that she and others generated in georgia. And it is better to work off a winning president ial than it is to work off a losing one and i think thats where you see the democrats having the advantage. Interesting, great piece of reporting. Thank you for spending time to talk about it. Up next for us, the dangers of donald trump living in his own alternative reality with a large platform from which to shout from. What, if anything, can be done about it. Aaaand welcome bact it ess. Sal. What do you do . Oh, im a retired postal worker. Fantastic. Are you ready to play . Oh, heck yeah. Ok johnny, tell him about eargo. These top of the line hearing aids from eargo are straight out of the future. Theyre rechargeable and virtually invisible in your ears host ok sal, how much do you think they cost . Oh gee i dont know. Um er 5000 . Well, actually for you they dont cost anything holy heck. Thats because federal employees, retirees and their families get these life changing hearing aids at no cost. 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For the second time in three weeks, ceos of twitter and facebook appeared before a committee on how they moderate content, as part of growing tech lash on capitol hill, jack dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg took incoming from both sides. Republicans slammed the companies for alleged bias, partly because many posts about Election Fraud were labelled misleading because theyre lies. Democrats accuse the social Media Companies of not doing enough to curb spread of disinformation, especially as the current president with his massive social media following seeks to undermine the legitimacy of the election. Daily, the president shocks our conscience, shakes the very foundations of our democracy, using a powerful megaphone, social media. The president has used this megaphone to spread vicious falsehoods in apparent attempt to overturn the will of voters. Joining the conversation, cohost of the pivot podcast, msnbc, New York Times contributor, kara swisher, and branding and marketing expert don donny deutsche. I spent time after the election on the road interviewing trump supporters, even more than fox news, more than breitbart, they all got their news from facebook. Why are they bad at weeding out lies . Because thats not their job. So essentially youre talking about ineffective gate keepers. The old word for old media is gate keepers, it is editing, things like that. Theyre bad at doing what theyre not good at doing. It sounds confusing. They never expected to be in this role, yet they are in the way they built their systems forces them into it. Even though Mark Zuckerberg doesnt want to be ab bitter of the truth, he built a system that requires one and theyre bad at it. Thats what youre seeing, thats why you see herky jerky motions from all of them. How do they get to the position of basically being the sticker on the carton saying reading this tweet, the tweet is a lie, others say this isnt true. How do they go from not seeing it as their job to flagging everything Donald Trump Tweets because it is a lie. Some people think the labels are ineffective. It is like putting it on cigarettes, cigarettes might cause cancer, could be, a lot of people think the labels are inadequate. I think they have a cumulative effect of saying something is wrong here, but i think they have to, they have been forced into. They have seen the proof that allowing these platforms to operate as if benign or just a platform like water going through a tunnel or Something Like that, they just arent that, so they have to figure out theyre Media Companies, what kind of Media Companies they are, that they are Media Companies, they have to exercise editorial discretion. Given the volume of stuff that comes over, it is almost impossible to do so. It is very much impossible to do well. Theyre trying. Thats what theyre doing now. They decided it was shameful what happened the last couple years, now theyre going to do something about it. Kara, i asked you about this before, i think the thing that rubs a lot of people the wrong way is they think theyre good. You watch the facebook ads, they think theyre digital hallmark, and theyre perfect vars of political porn. Do they still think theyre good guys . I think what they have to do is defend an indefensible thing. Whether it is addictive, Mark Zuckerberg said it is meaningful, useful. He sounds kind of ridiculous when he does that. Whats interesting is you have people on both sides having problems with them for different reasons. Just today before i came on here, Sacha Baron Cohen making one complaint, and senator hawley was making another one. I think the issue is enormous power by people able to wield it properly, and thats what we have to figure out. There should be a bipartisan effort to get together to figure out what are the guardrails, what is free speech. Are these public platforms . Then they should go regulated like a utility. These are discussions that need to happen, not nonsense about conservative bias. The reason conservatives get dinged more, they lie more on the platforms, there are new rules. That may not be a good way to solve the problem, but should be discussed in a way to try to protect as much of the truth as possible. It is not going to be perfect, but there hasnt ever been a discussion what true power means, which means Mark Zuckerberg runs a system that he controls completely, the only system in town. Thats really the problem. We have a Company Store thats controlling our civic discussion. Donny, when i think about these companies, i think about that documentary where the guy went and ate mcdonalds every day for weeks and weeks to see the body systems that shut down when he gorged on junk food. Yeah. What was that called . Super size me. I think of people on facebook and twitter, gorging on bad quality information. What do you think of the pranbr and what should they do . I want to remind everybody what social media is. Whats happened over time, we started to layer social media and it was set up as news and information. Social media are websites and applications that enable users to create and share content or participate in social networking. Part of the problem is, i would challenge the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world and jack dorseys of the world, put money behind a service campaign, same way you tell people not to drink and drive. Lets designate it, stop acting like idiots, just because i saw it there, thats true. Number two, to that point, why dont we designate within social media, if you want to be seen as news and information source, then you have to go through a different litmus test. Instead of doing it tweet by tweet, if you want to be seen, otherwise display from twitter is we are not news and information. This is opinion. This is social media. This is instagram. Part of the problem is we have allowed this overall huge behemoth category take honestens, meaning, purpose that it never had. I want to put that challenge back to these companies to remind what their service is, and at the same time one last thing i want to say is we cant abdicate, i come from a background where advertising was blamed for everything. People wouldnt smoke without advertising. I always say thats baloney. If people want the truth or dont want the truth, thats up to them. So many people at this point dont want the truth. They want to justify their point of view, we end up blaming Media Companies versus the individual that has some responsibility to do their own editing and understanding of what the truth is. Let me push back a little bit. I think president obama made clear in his interviews this week, i think the problem is it is now a threat to the democracy in which we live that theres such a prevalence of disinformation. I send that back to you, kara. It is now appearing the country has no need to be controlled by the russians, we do a perfectly adequate job dividing ourselves with disinformation domestically. Do they see or feel any urgency because of any acknowledgment or understanding of their detrimental role in spreading disinformation . I think they do, and i am going to push back on donny. This is information like youve never seen. Amplification and weaponization of information, not like a billboard or advertising in a magazine or television, those are limited to the number of eyeballs. In this system you can send 1 million different ideas to 1 million different people, and thats a big difference. And the flood of information is the problem. It is flooding. Not just a drip drip of cigarettes sold to teenagers, by the way, advertising did help people smoke a lot more, just did. It was very clear. Think about that on steroids to the endth degree. Thats whats happening here. Then the level of players of which there are many, whether domestic or foreign, get on the system and game it. It is an almost perfect system of propaganda. Anything you put over it causes you to believe it. Wow. Guys, maybe you misunderstood, i was making two points. Number one, not putting the jeannie back in the bottle. Remind people what social media is and take individual responsibility, stop acting like were all idiots. Thats the learned helplessness that allows this to happen. It starts at the home, starts with parents teaching children what truth is and what fact is. I dont blame the low life donald trump, i blame the 50 or 60, 70 Million People that refuse, dont want to experience what the truth is. They make everybody out to be idiots. Theyre not idiots, but it is not like people cant, we need a healthy information diet, you do well. If they stick it full of sugar, salt, nicotine, you cant control that. I think people should be smarter, shouldnt believe everything they see. The way this is given to you in addictive manner, it is addictive, you have to think of it systematically, it is constant, always on, and it certain articles look like New York Times, they hide it, package it, manipulate it, have psychologists figuring out how you receive things. It is a different game. I dont think the people are stupid, you have no defense against it just the way people didnt have defense against nicotine. You can say they dont have to smoke those cigarettes, but they kind of did. They kind of had to eat the twinkies. I guess this is a big discussion because i think were giving up a lot of control in the home what we can and cant. Oops, truth is over. I have to believe it if i see it. Maybe if we at home start with our children, being a little more learned about social media and what they see and dont see, were just giving up at this point. Thats my concern. I gave one solution about social Media Companies, bigger level, maybe we can all look in the mirror harder, not give up the fact were helpless idiots and believe everything we see. Maybe we should do this every day. I feel like the two of you, we could figure this out. I am living all of this. I have an eightyearold probably upstairs on youtube now. Constantly depressed by people believing lies. Maybe we should make this a regular thing. You can look at it in a benign way, i will say tiktok and leave out the chinese part. You can get on tiktok and youre down that rabbit hole for hours. I was watching tie dye for hours. I dont know why. Speak for yourself, kara. Tiktok virgin. Kara swisher, donny deutsche. Promise to come back, well do it again regularly. Thank you so much. When we come back, with thanksgiving a little more than a week away, will people start taking warnings about indoor gatherings with families and friends more seriously . New numbers suggest they might not. Thats next. Might not. Thats next. If youre on medicare, remember, the annual Enrollment Period is here. The time to choose your coverage. Begins october 15th and ends december 7th. So call unitedhealthcare. And take advantage of a wide choice of plans. Including an aarp Medicare Advantage plan from unitedhealthcare. It can combine your hospital and doctor coverage. With part d Prescription Drug coverage, and more, all in one simple plan. For a low monthly premium or in some areas, no plan premium at all. Take advantage of 0 copays on all primary care doctor visits, all virtual visits, and all lab tests. Also get 0 copays for preventive dental care, 0 copays for routine hearing exams, and 0 copays for eye exams. Plus, free designer frames and prescription lenses. 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The only Medicare Advantage plans with the aarp name. [sfx mnemonic] since pioneering the suv in 1935, the chevy suburban has carried many things. Nothing more important than family. Introducing the most versatile and advanced chevy suburban and tahoe ever. The surge we thought was nothing compared to what were experiencing now. Were more than double where we were back in may and it is tiring. Our patients are sicker. This unit is now icu which has created a strain on staffing. We need the community to help us. We need them to be on board with wearing a mask and making sacrifices because were making sacrifices every day as Health Care Workers and we weant to fel like were making a difference. Making a difference. A record 73,000 americans are curbly hospitalized with the coronavirus. More than 14,000 of them are in icus and more than 4,000 are on ventilators. It is the reality of the startling case numbers reported day after day after day in this country. Just yesterday more than 167,000 new infections here. In the last week, more than a million new cases. So far more than 11. 3 million americans have been sickened an tragically more than 248,000 souls have been lost. Joining us now is a medical director of the special pathogens unit at Boston Medical Center and msnbc medical contributor, dr. Bhadelia. I want to put you will the headlines from around the country. Hospitalizations in north texas surpassed the july peak and iowa is in a perilous stage and a surge in northeast ohio. There is really no part of this country that is spared and yet you heard there and you hear this increasingly from Health Care Workers, they leave the hospital where their treating sick patients and they see people in lines outside of bars not Wearing Masks. Yeah, nicolle, good afternoon. Weve in the past talked about the fact that it is so hard to convince because this is a disease that in some cases causes wild disease and in others it kills people. It is hard to convince people with mild disease that, look, youre actions are hurting people and overwhelming the Health Care System so we are entering entering a phase that that will change and a Health Care Crisis the likes of which the country hasnt seen yet. Up from 28,000 at the end of the august and a covid tracking project there was reported that a thousand hospitals are reporting Health Care Worker shortages before the impact of the subsequent millions of new cases that were seeing every single week now in this country. When this plays out, it will not leave anyone untouched. It wont be new york or california. All of the other places are already feeling not just the people who are impacted directly by covid but others who will see their care impacted because when they seek care the hospitals are becoming more and more repository of Health Care Units and caring for those patients and there is ceiling and that is what theyre saying, and there is no ceiling and now is the time to roll back and really think about what we do. It is well past that time, i think. Well, can you just, because i think even people that want to do all of the right things are confused about why thanksgiving gatherings are so dangerous. You could explain that. Yeah, im happy to. Partly because im also undoing misinformation from the white house dr. Scott atlas who this week said go ahead, gather everybody in your homes. But the concern is indoor spaces remain so much more dangerous and transmission of infections, we know there are 20 times more dangerous because this virus sticks around inside and if you bring in more people in your house whose status you dont know youre likely to bring the virus into your home and it might be the last in fact, might be the last thanksgiving that many people have because of that. So limit the number of people to just those in your household. Dont travel this year if you dont have to. Wear that mask. Please, please, reduce the number of people youre around and the indoor time that youre around and for the states mandate those masks and roll back indoor capacity in bars and restaurants and gyms and everywhere else people gather. Dr. Bhadelia, thank you for spending time with us. Grateful to your advice for people trying to do all of the right thing this is season and i guess the good news is with vaccines on the horizon, it might be just one christmas and thanksgiving and hanukkah season that people miss. Thank you. The next hour of deadline white house starts after a very short break for us. Dont go anywhere. Go anywhere. U . Try optum perks. Its a new way to save up to 80 . And everyone can do it. Its from optum, a Health Care Company thats trusted by millions of people. You dont have to sign up for anything. Just go to optumperks. Com. And get a coupon to use at your pharmacy. Thats it. I opted in. I opted in. You can, too. Opt in and save big today. Their laundry smells moremily amazing than ever. In flings, you can, too. Uh, honey . Isnt that the dogs towel . Hey, me towel su towel. Theres more gain scent plus oxi boost and febreze odor remover in every fling. Gain. Seriously good scent i got it all from you im always pushing through i know well make it to the finish line i know youre waiting on the other side im like you ondemand glucose monitoring. Because theyre always on. Another lifechanging technology from abbott. So you dont wait for life. You live it. Welco welcome to my house live. Do you wanna see something really cool . My man cave. Another sharma . Its a place to relax. Its hot in here. Uh, you might be more comfortable if you removed your fur pelt. I already did. Oh. Other nations are not sitting still. Our adversaries look at this period of disarray. Were already suffering a Foreign Policy defeat right now because one of the pillars of american Foreign Policy for decades has been the promulgation, the propagation of support for democracy and democratic institutions. That pillar has just been destroyed. I mean, how do we make those arguments with a straight face now given what this president is doing. Hi, again, everyone. It is 5 00 in the east. The chaos president bringing the nation to the brink of more chaos. This time on the world stage as donald trump ignores warnings of the top military National Security officials and even of other allies like mitch mcconnell. Trump intent on following through with his 2016 campaign promise, even in the waning days of his lame duck administration. Acting defense secretary Christopher Miller announcing the withdrawal of american troops from afghanistan and iraq down to 2,500 troops in each country. Miller said this is done by january 15th, right before joe biden is inaugurated. Accelerating u. S. Troop withdrawal in area wheres situations on the ground remain sensitive is seen by many as too hasty. A move that could provide an opportunity for terror groups to swoop in. Like we saw with the rise of the Islamic State after the u. S. Pulled out of iraq in 2011. That danger underscored by comments from the nato secretary general who said the price for leaving too soon or in uncoordinated way could be very lie. Our nato allies have thousands of troops fighting alongside our men and women. The New York Times out with blockbuster new reporting that finds that, quote, President Trump ask senior advisers in an Oval Office Meeting on thursday whether he had options to take action against irans main nuclear site in the coming weeks. The meeting occurred a day after International Inspectors reported a significant increase in that countrys stockpile of nuclear material. A range of senior advisers dissuaded the president from moving ahead with a military action. Christopher miller and general mark milley, the chairman of the joints chiefs of staff warned that a strike against iran facilities could easily escalate into a broader conflict in the last weeks of mr. Trumps presidency. We should note that the white house has declined to comment on that reporting. And that nbc news has yet to match that paper reporting. With the u. S. In a vulnerable state, having a president unwilling to accept defeat and outright blocking the transition of his successor, envoy to the Coalition Brett Mcgurk write this is, if trump is debating Major Military operations of any kind it is all the more urgent for the incoming commander in chief to have immediate access to National Security information and reporting. The stonewalling from the Trump Administration is so damaging, president elect biden and his team have had to take matter news their own hands. Just a few hours ago the president elect received a National Security briefing but no current government officials were present since the transition has yet to be formally approved. According to joe bidens transition team, he met with outside diplomatic intelligence and defense experts and here is a bit of what he said to them. Im not being critical, just stating the obvious. You know that ive been unable to get the briefings that ordinarily would come by now. And so i just want to get your input on what you see ahead. And to state the obvious, there is no president ial responsibility more important than protecting the American People and so i appreciate you taking the time. Im anxious to hear what you all have to say. A lame duck president holding the countrys National Security hostage is where we start this hour with some of our very good friends. Brett mcgurk, at forementioned envoy is here and msnbc Foreign Affairs analyst for us. Also joining us jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense, also an msnbc National Security analysts. And former u. S. Ambassador to russia, Michael Mcfaul is here. The three of you would be the three i want to be briefed by if i was joe biden. Let me start with you, brett, because ive mentioned you in the last few days how it is not even a delayed transition, it is a canceled transition and how that impacts National Security. You wrote something that i think is haunting to anyone, really any american that won of the many, many factors that contributed to the attacks of 9 11 was a delay the transition, a delayed ability to integrate an incoming team with an Outgoing Team on the topic of terror threats. Talk about how that could be a danger right now. Well, thanks, nicolle. For having me on such an important topic. I served through the last two post 9 11 transitions with george w. Bush and with president obama and both of them by the lessons of the 9 11 Commission Report just that the culture that is created in that months after the election and the inauguration is of a caretaker. And those of us serving in public trust are stewards of the institutions and we welcome the new team with open arms. You do not make major decisions without some consultation. But what the 9 11 Commission Report recommended and found was that an outgoing administration, it said specifically, as soon as possible after election day, should hand over to a new team a classified briefing with all covert operations an all classified military reporting so the incoming could figure out what is going on and inquire with further information. Every day that goes on that that is not happening, our country takes on more risk and it is more difficult for the new team in 65 days to take the rein. Jeremy bash, i guess for all of the gaslighting that trump has done and for all of the permission that Republican Leaders have granted him to do that, to their party, to the country, to the office of the presidency, to the cia, to the fbi, now most recently to the military, im stunned, im just stunned that theyre all willing to give him permission to increase the risk of terror attacks or frankly of a raging pandemic, joe biden is going to assume the presidency as a president at war with a virus. I mean, why do you think there isnt more pressure on this white house to simply connect with an Incoming Administration and share this kind of information. If nothing else, just around the National Security portfolio. I think the pressure is building, nicolle. Twice in the last two days, Senior Executive branch officials, president ial appointees have reached out to folks around town saying, hey, look, it is kind of getting dangerous. And although were not officially allowed to talk we want to have a back channel or a side channel. Now that is not going to go forward unless trump approves it. But i also think about the transition that i served in in 2008 when george w. Bush was transitioning to president obama and Vice President biden at the time. Look what happened during the transition itself. First, israel and hamas went to war in gaza. Second, tieba undertook an attack in mumbai in which americans were targeted and killed and then of course the intelligence about Irans Nuclear program at fordow came to light then and serving if the transition when we had the intelligence and went into the cia and do our jobs in government we could hit the job running with operational responses. So it is dangerous for this transition to proceed this way and i think the Trump Administration needs to begin to work with the new biden team so that everybody is ready on day one. I have to just press because you dangled it out there. What does this back channel look like . Is it off the record and informal or really an opening of a conversation about a transition of power . No, i think officials want to reach out to the Biden Transition Team but theyre being prohibited from doing so. And of course nothing will happen until this ascertainment from the gsa actually occurs. And so notwithstanding these misgivings by senior trump officials, nothing will happen and it shows that pressure is building inside of the Trump Administration because people even though theyre loyal to the understand just how risky and dangerous the situation is becoming. And ambassador mcfaul, it looks like this is where the president has focused some of his defeat blues. Summoning aides to his new acting secretary of defense and others to the oval office based on New York Times reporting, to understand his options for military strike in iran. It is New York Times reporting that nbc has not confirmed but it is out there and according to four former and current officials you also have this massive shakeup that has de stabilized the pentagonin pentagon installing real trump loyalists. How much harm could trump do in the next 60 days. I dont know where to start. Because there are multiple dimensions of harm that hes already done. Hes a lame duck president and he shouldnt be doing that. Number two, hes decapitating the pentagon. If there is a National Security crisis and we have all of the acting people with no legitimate, no de facto legitimacy in the building, that is dangerous. Number three, theyre not paying tension to things going on in the world. Theyre not paying attention to what is happening in ethiopia or in balk, they should be focuses on those crises and theyre not doing that. And the final part of the transition, i worked on the 20089 transition, i dont think it is getting enough attention. Were con stabtsly talking about the security briefings from intel. That is important. But landing teams, that is what theyre calling, they show up at the National Security council and they show up at the state department throughout the administration and they gib to interview not just the outgoing people, that is just the top people, right, they talk to directors at the National Security council, the Deputy Assistant secretaries at the pentagon and the state department and that transfer of communication and information, that i think is what really being hamstrung right now. Well that is so interesting. Let me follow up with you. And brett writes about this. That there were decisions, if a decision is delayed, it is the landing teams an they go to work inside of the agency. They get office space inside of the department of agriculture, in the department of education and the state department. So you start to get a ground truth. And youre right, an Incoming Administration by nature often has different priorities could you isnt just talk to the political heads to find out what is going on. That is how you become reintegrated or sort of turn the government in your chosen policy direction. But if i could just push you a little bit, ambassador. What sorts of things would benefit trump if he wanted to try to pull off in the final days a not having biden teams working inside of these departments, National Security specifically. None that i could think of it. Theyre trying to create a legacy. They dropped a big document on how to deal with china today. On the way out. Not beginning. And that is fine. I dont have a disagreement with that. But there is no upside, i can see, to trump doing this. And there is one other one i want to mention because i forgot in my long list of damage. We look ridiculous. A lot of people i want people to understand that. I reach every day and putin and his media, theyre having a field day with this because it underscores that our democracy is not working. And that is just that is helping our enemies, that what we dont look like our democracy is functioning, that only helps our enemies abroad and that is longterm because that will last well after the transition if millions of americans dont recognize President Biden at the duly elected president of the United States of america, that will continue to do damage to our international reputation. And that is, brett, that is Donald Trumps aim and his enablers include his allies in the conservative media. That is the specific ambition of donald trump. And the current president of this country in his final days. I want to push you, brett mcgurk, to just explain what it looks like, i think that is startling but the view from our adversaries, what did it look like to our allies . I quoted the nato general secretary but what do our allies think and how do we get the gears turning in the right direction in terms of reengaging our alliances . Well, nicolle, you led with jen stoltenbergs statement. I worked with him, hes a former Prime Minister of norway. He used his words extremely carefully over the last four years. Hes rarely criticized, i dont think ever, criticized the Trump Administration. He tried to give trump praise so he could work with him. He a statement which you cited if nothing it done in afghanistan the price could be extremely high and those were his words and there are 12,000 froop troops in afghanistan theyre our allies and working and build and maintaining a coalition, you do not make military moves with a coalition without consulting in those capitals. They have made decisions to send men and women over with us and here we are making this major unilateral move. So nothing that is happening here that we are talking about is surprising. Anybody who watched donald trump the last four years. But it is still shocking. For everything that mike just talked about, about just the fabric of our democracy, the maintenance of our alliances and the world is moving on without us, our allies in the pacific and asia just signed the largest trade block in history with china. The world is moving on without us. Were taking on risk day after day and that is why this transition has to get underway. It is shocking and irresponsible and reckless disregard for our National Security and everything weve seen for the last four years. And jeremy, just to pick up on that, with donald trump it is hard to say that no part of the government has suffered more than the National Security agencies but it certainly is a claim you could defend. For someone in his own transition liken american intelligence agencies to nazis, someone who denanded loyalty from the first fbi director and now flirts with firing his secondhand picked fbi director and somebody with the current direct your of the cia walking on eggshells because hes made so abundantly clear how angry he is that she wont de classify america of sources and methods when it comes to russia intelligence gathering and analysis. There isnt an area of our National Security that hasnt been weakened, damaged and harmed by donald trump. How do you get all of that up to speed without a transition for day one of the biden presidency . Well, the good news, nickoll, if you look the transition team, the people that briefed joe biden today, if you look at those briefers, they know more about National Security and they will know more on day one than the Donald Trump Team will know after four years. I mean, joe biden having served as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Vice President for years is one of the most prepared person to ever go into the oval office with respect to National Security. I cant think of another. So im not worried about the new team as much. Im worried about the information, the intelligence gap and im worried about our standing in the world because i think as michael pointed out, it is not just that were bumbling into this mistake of transmitting mixed messages atour adversaries that is the objective and the Foreign Policy now is to undermine the peaceful transfer of power and it will take a long time, maybe a whole generation, to make up that ground. It is an unbelievable, unbelievable state of affairs and i cannot think of three people that i was more excited to talk to about it than the three of you. Thank you. Thank you so much for starting us off. When we come back, brandnew reporting from nbc news about how joe biden doesnt want his presidency bogged down with investigations into donald trump. Even as some democrats want to hold him accountable. Plus the rise in covid cases around this country is being met by rise in Court Challenges to the Public Health measures that could help bring the pandemic under control. And that has Health Experts worried that a bad fall could get much, much worse in the winter. Deadline white house is back after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Just getting started. Rtedwe alws come here for the holidays . How did you find greatgrandmas recipe . Were related to them . Were portuguese . I thought we were hungarian . Grandpa, can you tell me the story again . Behind every question is a story waiting to be discovered. But you can work out anything wowith comcast business. W. Get fast, reliable, and secure internet on the nations largest gig speed network. Flexible tools like wifi you control. Voice solutions that connect you from anywhere. And expert advice here, here, or even here. Be fast. Be flexible. Bounce forward with comcast business. Get started with a powerful internet and voice solution for just 64. 90 a month. Plus, for a limited time, ask how to get a 500 prepaid card when you upgrade. Switch today. What to do about donald trump target of investigations. It is facing joe biden as he prepares to assume the office. Amid a storm of ongoing investigations by congress and new york state and Unanswered Questions about his tenure and policies like child separation, to conflicts of interest with his businesses to his taxes. Joe biden is pledged to undo a number of trumps policies but when comes to investigating trump, nbc is reporting that joe biden is hoping to turn the page. President elect joe biden has privately told advisers that he doesnt want his presidency to be consumed by investigations of his predecessor. Biden has raised concerns that investigations would further divide a country he is trying to unite and risk making every day of his presidency about trump. Said the sources who spoke on background to offer details of private kovconversations. Joining us in our is carol lee and also with us Homeland Security security correspondent for the New York Times and about the task ahead for whom ever joe biden picks to run the department of Homeland Security. And i guess starting a policy mace and work back to potential criminal investigations and it seems the spirit of your reporting is that whom ever takes over that agency is going to quickly reverse some of the most egregious policies in the eyes not just of biden supporters but many, Many Americans such as child separations and the muslim ban. But where does that line get drawn . I know there is a doj report into the child separation policy and if there is a criminal referral, is there a sense those things will continue to churn through the process . So this is one of those points where the Incoming Administration is going to face some pressure from factions of the Democratic Party and theyre base when itms could to the changes that youre talking about, nicolle. So the Incoming Administration, when it comes to Something Like the remain in mexico policy that is forcing thousands of asylumseekers to wait in mox for ahearing, travel bans against muslim or african countries could stick we be stopped but when comes to the overlapping asylum restrictions that the white house and steen miller has really pushed, that is not going to be easy. When it comes to the public charge regulation, they need to do that through a settlement in court or introducing a new regulation. That cant be done with executive action. Now when it comes to child separation, that is a point that many add volk apt add volk ants have said in addition to the policy by the Trump Administration but that the entire system at the border of having cbp assess the families and referring them over to i. C. E. , or if it is an unaccompanied child hhs, and that system allowed for family separations to happen. So theyre calling for a complete upheaval for that. That is not something we have heard as much from the president elect on when it comes to child separation. What we have heard thus far is that he would basically introduce a council that would review the Trump Administrations zerotolerance policy but it is worth remembers when it comes to finding the parent, that is done by Court Appointed volunteers and that is through a Court Process so hell face pressure on many of the sweeping immigration policies. Le be able to roll back some but toss not easy for each of those regulations. And i think, carol, it underscores the point that i understand what it seems the biden team is saying, they dont want to talk about donald trump and be consumed by investigations either on the policy level or potential criminal conduct by him, conflicts of interest, but just listen to that answer of how complicated undoing these policies that took the country to unprecedented actions. It seems like it will be very difficult thing to pull off, carol. Yeah, i mean, there is the policy and the undoing of the policies and then there is some other issue that the president elect is going to have to contend with and that is just that there are a lot of democrats who want President Trump, people who work for him, members of his administration, to just be held accountable for what they think are wrongs. And that is everything from potentially something involving his taxes to obstruction of justice that they feel he should have been charged with or had some sort of other additional repercussions for outside of the mueller report, whether it is Campaign Finance violations. It runs the gamut. And the concern that were told the president elect has expressed to his advisers is that hes coming in, he wanted a reset with the country to try and unify the country and he doesnt want every day of his presidency to just be about donald trump. For that to be the headline. At the same time he said this publicly and the aides stress this, he wants to reestablish the boundaries between the white house and the Justice Department that have been there and Many Democrats including president elect biden think donald trump eroded and completely erased. This is a president when Biden Takes Office who is not going to tell his attorney general who to investigate and whether they somebody should be investigated or not. So that may in the end wind up being how he threads this needle because there is going to be various heads and based on the email im getting in response to this story, there is say lot of pressure on president elect biden to do something here. Even if democrats dont know exactly what they want him to do. They just want President Trump, this feeling out there that he should be held accountable and is going to have to contend that with. And youll remember this very well in the way that president obama had to contend this with democrats when he came to office other george bushs policy of enhanced interrogations and what president obama wound up doing is said were not going there and were not doing that and that angered a lot of members of his own party. You havent seen president elect biden do that. Will he wind up having to do Something Like that . Dont know right now. Theyre just trying to say we dont want to be involved, were going to have an independent Justice Department and hes not going to tell people what to do. I dont know if that is going to hold. And zollan, i think threading the needle is the right political analysis but it is a return to a norm that a president would leave a Justice Department to go out and investigate the fbi and the doj to prosecute crimes wherever they find them. So i think people are overreading this a little bit, carol. Ive heard of some this too. But ive asked joe biden on this show whether he would direct an attorney general to investigator not donald trump and he said woe leave an attorney general alone to make her own choices. So do you think this may represent just a restoration in some ways to what a normal Justice Department is and does and in a nontrump presidency . That may be the case. But i think the consistency here when it comes to the criticism that hes likely to face, is that many of the supporters of the president elect arent exactly or may not be looking for restoration back to the way that it was. I mean for the department of Homeland Security, another area that you could look to is the calls to abolish i. C. E. The calls for substantial reforms or even at the abolishment of cbp and the involvement of protests in portland and the dismantling of the department. The president elect isnt going to do that. His advisers said that they are going to stop, that they stop there. They will establish independent oversight, similar to what carol was saying and theyre saying that they will appoint folks to conduct over sight which is what were used to, back to the restoration of normalcy, but what he will face pressure, a huge pressure for him and for his first term are going to be those that may not be looking for that restoration and looking for something even further. We will continue to turn to both of you in your reporting on this. It is bound to be a topic of great interest on all sides. Carol lee, zollan, thank you so much for spending time with us today. When we come back, with cases of coronavirus reaching shocking new highs, republican governors are beginning to embrace the one thing experts say works masks. That story when deadline white house continues after a quick break. Stay with us. After a quick break. Stay with us children laughing music swells dog barking music fades exhales experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. Sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first months payment. Its timnew sleep numberte sleep360 smart bed. On the what if i sleep hot . Or cold . No problem, with temperature balancing, you can sleep better together. Can it help keep me asleep . Absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. Will it help me keep up with mom . You got this. So you can really promise better sleep . Not promise, prove. And now, during the ultimate sleep number event, save 800 on new sleep number 360® smart beds. Only for a limited time. To learn more, go to sleepnumber. Com. I got it all from you im always pushing through i know well make it to the finish line i know youre waiting on the other side im like you ondemand glucose monitoring. Because theyre always on. Another lifechanging technology from abbott. So you dont wait for life. You live it. What is the matter with these guys. What is the matter with them. Resist. Any major individual in the health field is saying we could save a hundred thousand lives between now and january 21st by wearing these masks. What are they doing . It is totally irresponsible. Irresponsible. And so i complement the governors who have stepped forward, who have been stepping forward. That is president elect joe biden yesterday on the continued resistance to Public Health measures even as we continue to see staggering surging in coronavirus cases every single day. Yesterday the u. S. Reported more than 167,000 new cases in the last week more than 1 million new cases have been reported and more than 8,000 lives lost. In total, more than 11. 3 million americans have contracted the virus and tragically more than 248,000 have died. Across this country new covid restrictions are being introduced every day even by members of the Republican Party. Utah and north dakota and mississippi have implemented or extended mask mandates. Today ohios republican governor issued a 21day curfew that starts on thursday to reduce the contacts that are taking place. But in wisconsin, where the Positivity Rate is at a record 36. 4 and more than 72,000 people currently have active infections, the governors attempts to keep his state safe are again being challenged in that states conservative Supreme Court. Lets bring in Shaquille Brewster live in madison, wisconsin. What is sort of the ground truth there . Are people rooting for the Supreme Court or would they like to see the governors Public Health measures upheld . Reporter it really depends on where you are. Latest numbers that we saw out of the state of wisconsin today paint the picture in such dire situations. We learned today that today was the the past 24 hours has been the deadliest day here in the state of wisconsin. 92 lives lost over the past 24 hours. It was another day of more than 7,000 new confirmed infections and more than 300 people entering the hospital fighting this virus. And i want to you take a look at this drone video that our team shot earlier today of the testing facility that were at right now. If you look at all of the cars there, hundreds and hundreds of cars, based on that Positivity Rate, you could counts assuming there is only one person in each car, every third car that youre looking at right now has someone who is positive with this coronavirus. So as you mentioned, the state Supreme Court is taking up and listening and heard arguments yesterday of the governors mask mandate. They previously struck down his stayathome orders. There is another court that has limited his restrictions on bars and restaurants. But you have medical officials and doctors and physicians saying despite what happens with the courts, despite the gridlock that youre seeing at the political level, they are pleading with people dont have thanksgiving gathering and wear your mask and stay inside as much as you can. The spread near in wisconsin is out of control. An we just saw a report from the White House Task force and they say the Current Situation, this is me quoting, the Current Situation is critical in that additional measures could limit further cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. But youre seeing with the inaction and the inability of the governor to be able to maintain his orders that hes putting in place. Youre seeing that action is not really coming any time soon. Nicolle. Shaq brewster in madison, wisconsin. Thank you so much for your reporting there. And for spending some time with us. Joining us now is William Schaffner from Vanderbilt University and an adviser to the cdc and one of my most favorite people to talk to about the stuff that really matters. And i guess my question for you is, it is obvious why things like Wearing Masks and canceling holiday gatherings and eating indoors are so politically charged when you have the president and his press secretary and chief of staff refusing to wear mask and convening massive gatherings throughout the course of the campaign. But i know for a fact that every parent in an emergency room with their sick child or at a Doctors Office with a sick parent doesnt care about politics, or about your politics or about anything partisan. And so im curious what your theory is now that so many people are sick, why are these things still to political . Nicolle, youre speaking from the heart as well as your mind. Both of those things are involved. You know, ive learned from my psychology friends that when people have a very strong opinion and then they encounter facts that are contrary to that opinion, it is the human condition, all of us, myself included, the initial response is to hunker down and be more firm despite the fact that you counter information that is quite contrary to it and i think we see that all over the country. It is not just covid fatigue, it is covid disdain. It is being stubborn and it stills have this political veneer. This could be turned around. I would im applauding the governors that have changed their mind on this. And i would wish they would Work Together now to do something regional so that they could collaborate rather than coerce and wouldnt that be better if they all began speaking with one voice. What is the opportunity ahead of joe biden to assume the office of the presidency and sort of tap into this countrys history, we have a history of being so much better than this. A history of making sacrifices for one another. A history of shared sacrifice in the shortterm benefit in the longterm with vaccines on the horizon, im stunned that we dont have leaders saying, look, please cancel your Holiday Plans this year but i promise things will be better a year from now. What is sort of the vacuum in that space and what is the opportunity for a new president to change that dialogue . Of course that is the high road and that is the opportunity for the president. And if the president elect could recruit any number of other governors, rels leaders, Business Leaders all to sing the same song, i think we would begin to hear that. And appeal to all of our best sides. And then to point ahead that although this is a transit