Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline White House 20201116

By stoking civil unrest, puts the safety of americans his refusal to concede the election entered a more dangerous phase as he Stock Exchange resistance and unrest among supporters and spreads false hoods aimed as undermining integrity of the american voting system. More than a week after the president elect joe biden was declared winner, trump continues to block his successors transition, withholding intelligence briefings, critical information about coronavirus, and access to the vast machinery of government that mr. Biden will soon oversee. Speaking of the president elect, he was asked about trump stonewalling last hour. Bidens answer was simple. More people may day if we dont coordinate. How do we get the vaccine, how do we get over 300 million americans vaccinated . Whats the game plan . It is a huge, huge, huge undertaking. If we have to wait until january 20th to start that planning, it puts us behind, a month, month and a half. So it is important that it be done, that there be coordination now. The president s obstruction of the transition comes at a moment local leaders, Public Health officials, front line medical workers are begging people to take drastic measures such as cancelling family gatherings over the holidays to stop the surge of new infections. This weekend, our country hit 11 million cases, a full million of those detected in the last week. We are likely to cause 250,000 deaths in the next several days if not hours. The latest projection is 360,000 deaths by inauguration day. Dr. Michael osterholm, a member of president elect bidens Advisory Board didnt sugar coat concerns. My worst fear is what we saw in other countries where people were dying on the streets, people literally were dying in Emergency Rooms after spending ten hours waiting to be seen. Thats going to start happen, the media will start reporting it, we will see the breadth and depth of this tragedy. Instead of focusing on protecting americans and saving lives, the president s chief medical advise or scott atlas is adding his voice to the president s call for uprisings against Public Health measures, tweeting to michigan residents to rise up and protest stay at home orders. He tweeted this. The only way this stops is if people rise up. You get what you accept. Freedom matters. Step up. Undeniable echo of Donald Trumps liberate michigan tweet during the first spike of the pandemic which contributed to animosity towards Gretchen Whitmer that culminated in a plot to harm her. He does as much damage to the country he leads as possible in remaining days, where we start with some of our favorite reporters and friends. White house reporter Ashley Parker is here, dr. Patel, former Obama White House Health Policy director, and former Obama Campaign manager David Plouffe is back. Lucky for us, all msnbc contributors. Ashley, you have several remarkable pieces in the newspaper this weekend. Take us through the dereliction of duty in a piece with some of your colleagues. Talk about what you reported about trump being completely awal in terms of participating or Pay Attention to or seeming to care about work of the Coronavirus Task force. Absolutely. Even before the election, but became more pronounced and on steroids after the election, trump abdicated his duties for handling the pandemic. We reported, members of the task force later publicly confirmed on sunday shows that donald trump had not attended a Coronavirus Task force meeting in over five months. We spoke to people inside the administration that said the medical experts said they actively want to be helping the biden Transition Team, but when they try to do so, they are actively, specifically told not to, that they cannot talk to them. Even when the president s interest has only been focused on one aspect, operation warp speed and vaccines, the president very much wanted a miracle cure. Even when good news was announced first by phizer, then by moderna, when phizer came out six days after election day with news they had a vaccine, 90 effica efficacy rate, the president was so frustrated it came out after the election. He believed phizer and his own fda were sitting on data to harden him at the poll. That he didnt want to go out and take a victory lap as advisers urged him to do to get the message out. They said it was a good achievement for his presidency, and b, it was an Important Health message for the citizens of the country to know and he didnt want to do that. Finally begrudgingly friday gave the update on operation warp speed and progress on the vaccines. Ashley, do you have any reporting on the woman who was holding up certifying the transition funds and green lighting it, another News Organization has reported shes looking for employment. Shes still one of the obstacles to the transition funds and Transition Office space being turned over to the biden team. Well, more generally she is one of these people, again, i want to be clear, i am not specifically talking about her, it was a tough situation. The president hasnt conceded the election. He made clear he doesnt want the transition to begin. So you have varying degrees of People Holding things up because theyre true trump loyalists, believers, and think incorrectly with no evidence that he is going to be victorious. Then theres a group of people like i mentioned earlier that very much want to start the process, feel like theyre being h hamstrung by their supervisors and the president s wishes. We reported in the story on emails where some began with if there is a transition to biden, if trump does not get a second term, so when you have that mentality, whether it is a loyalist or someone that feels they cant do their job because theyll be penalized if it turns out, theyre operating in the reality based community, it very much freezes everything on every level regardless of a sole persons intentions or beliefs in their heart, so to speak. Dr. Patel, my colleague usually makes the transition by saying over here on planet earth. I like ashleys description of reality based community. Reality based community on planet earth, joe biden is the next president. Donald trump it would appear is willfully endangering lives of American People by not allowing a transition. I saw that reporting in the Washington Post that trump was enraged that phizer came up with a vaccine. It is a hallelujah moment that they made such, seems like important and Good Progress on a vaccine. It answers any remaining dead enders as to whether or not this was about anything other than Donald Trumps political destiny, what ashley reports is the case, that he was fuming it came out six days after the election. I know. Nicole, isnt it amazing, the depth of his selfishness, all the while breaking record numbers of cases, deaths, hospitalizations. Youve got hospital doctors in red and blue states, doesnt matter, who are crying for help. We reported on it, talked about it here, i think even more critical in light of what i consider Ground Breaking news, Novel Technology in a vaccine thats never been done before, absolutely amazing numbers which still, we need to see the data, it is all by press release, lets caveat all of that, but my goodness, if anything, use this as an instance to say look at this, this is what Research Dollars and American Innovation can do. Instead, youre just hearing blockades and obstacles. And something that hasnt gotten enough attention, nicole, theres no funding because of lack of action on Mitch Mcconnells desk, theres no funding to help the states get the vaccine distributed, so we will have incredible promise. We prepurchased doses, but if it doesnt get into americans arms, then thats not going to see an end to the nightmare, which we are all eagerly awaiting. Dr. Patel, it was theoretical for a few months how the president s refusal to model Good Behavior like mask wearing or social distancing, refusal to acknowledge after his own hospitalization the dire situation. Youre now seeing the product of that information pumped into millions of supporters and followers, and hearing it from doctors and nurses who have no political bone, not from a political Vantage Point but at the bedside of sick people that dont believe covid is real. How do you fix that . How does a President Biden fix that . One thing that i think needs to happen is we need to actually understand a bit about the detrimental effect on human psychology that the president and candidly, his qanon, the social Media Support he has received, all that damage needs to be acknowledged, nicole. It is the same thing we have to do when trying to get people to get motivated to lose weight, to take hard medication they may need to. We cant just tell people Wearing Masks and doing things we have been saying. Clearly theyre not doing it. We need to acknowledge what has been this disinformation pandemic and try to counter it. Honestly, one way to counter it is what president elect biden is doing, he is sticking to the same language, trying to tell people it is not about you or me, it is about protecting our mothers, our children, sisters, brothers. And we also need to keep doing what we have been doing, showing the reality of it, showing young people getting infected. I have seen patients in my clinic months out, nicole, who have been infected from march and april, coming in with headaches, nonspecific complaints, and it is terrifying us. We need to put more sunlight onto what were actually seeing and need to acknowledge that americans are just not listening to the standard wear a mask, keep a distance, all the while supporting the governors and local mayors that are giving the right messages. What lori lightfoot, Governor Whitmer, governor dewine in ohio, a republican governor, red state, theyre the ones picking up the pieces of the chaotic mess. We need to do more of that and less of just the blindness. David, i want to show you something that tony fauci said. We should remind people that tony fauci worked for four or five president s, he has been part of the transition, albeit not during the pandemic, but between multiple administrations. Heres what tony fauci had to say about the impact of no transition being permitted by a president who refuses we dont have the sound. I will read you the quote. Tony fauci said the virus is not going to stop and call a time out while things change, the virus will just keep going. The process will just keep going. This is something that is now going in a strong direction. Vaccines are effective, very strong right direction. Vaccines are effective, want it approved as quickly as we can. Get doses to people in december and get the ball rolling as we get to january, february, march. Want a smooth process for that. The way you do that is having the two groups speak to each other, exchange information. Meyer old boss, george w. Bush, insisted upon a smooth and very productive transition to your old boss which i think became the foundation eventually for friendship between the two families. Your old boss insisted on, demanded a smooth transition of power to whatever trump did in the transition. It is hard to sort of articulate how important this period is of time unless you lived through it. You and i lived through it. Youre exhausted from the campaign but you have a more important task, youre in charge of the federal government. Can you just speak to how detrimental in the middle of a crisis, listen to the time line from fauci, the transition is when the logistics, and it is almost like wartime operation, figuring how to move vaccines into every community, most vulnerable ones first into peoples arms as dr. Patel said, is it going to happen because trump wont acknowledge the election. You know, nicole, it is remarkable to say this given the last four years, but i think we now reached where trump is handling lack of concession, lack of transition cooperation, dealing with a once in a century pandemic. It is the most reckless and irresponsible thing hes ever done. We have an election early november, new president takes over third week of january. It is no time at all, over in the blink of an eye. So the damage here is severe. Its all to satisfy his childlike ego. This election is not even that close. He tweeted at the governor of ohio today, he is much more enraged about the governor of ohio saying joe biden won an election than about the pandemic raging all around us, and listen, at the end of the day, we pay a price all the time for this, but i think it is coming to crescendo. You put one of the worst human being on the planet in the most powerful office, bad things are going to happen. I wish i could say thursday of this week, tuesday next week, he is going to come to higs senses. In 1981, iranians released hostage after Ronald Reagan took office. We have to wait until then to be fully released from irresponsibility of this administration. Joe biden is right, people are going to die, a lot of them are going to die, because the president refuses to acknowledge the outcome of the election. Someone whose life was threatened and we know that because the fbi foiled a plot against her, David Plouffe, the michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer. Donald trumps top medical adviser, unclear why he is the president s medical adviser, tweeted more sort of flame fanning rhetoric against her. Do you sense theres anyone in the room that is doing anything other than dealing with the president s hurt feelings as you said or spreading disinformation . Yeah. It is remarkable. He is paid by the taxpayers, supposedly paid to help manage covid, and a disaster at that. Picking up Donald Trumps comments about the proud boys from the debate, stand by. He is calling people to arm vigilante. No matter how he tries to clean it up, thats what happened. Listen, at the end of the day the only people that can get him to potentially acknowledge election results, it would be his kids. And they seem to be the ones, particularly the boys, who are rallying the cages loudest. He is living in a fantasy world. He wants to be able to leave with himself convinced and viewers of news max convinced that he won the election. And again, this is not a close election. He is going to lose by the same electoral vote margin he won in 2016. The michigan margins triple what he won those states by, pennsylvania over 70,000 votes. We are all paying a price for childish ego. Again, we are going to have tens of thousands die unnecessarily. The logistical challenges of getting the vaccine out, it is not just logistical, we have behavioral, we have financial, we have public education. It is a massive, massive challenge. And i think at the end of the day, the weeks were going to lose here are going to be devastating for the country. Ashley, i want to show you Governor Whitmer standing up to the president , something that i guess there are seven republican senators have been able to acknowledge the truth. Makes me laugh that thats breaking news, when a republican senator acknowledges election results. Heres a democratic governor telling the truth about the impact of the tweets, that she wont be bullied. We know that the white house likes to single us out here in michigan, me out in particular. Im not going to be bullied into not following reputable scientists and medical professionals. Shes right that she is following the science. She is accepting the results of the election. But you do see the president s tweets and the president s words and the president s actions have consequences. Sometimes dangerously so. There was a plot against her. You know, the fbi foiled the plot that was good work on their part, but it is not as if his tweets and again, his comments go off into a vacuum. David was mentioning all of the challenges of mobilizing the vaccine. One word that caught my mind was behavioral. In addition to biden, and the challenge where he doesnt have time for robust transition, he is inheriting a challenge where because of just the president s mere words and his own poor example, you have something as basic and simple and frankly as lifesaving as wearing a mask thats been so deeply politicized that it is maddening, i have to imagine, for Public Health experts and medical doctors to realize one of bidens first challenges will be to convince a significant portion of the public to wear a mask to protect themselves, protect their neighbors, their families. It is an unbelievable state of affairs. Ashley parker, dr. Patel, David Plouffe, thank you for starting us off today. With trump abdicating his day job for frivolous lawsuits, following coronavirus falls to local leaders. We get response to the numbers from atlantas mayor who is at the center of the political universe this season. And reading tea leaves. How joe biden plans to erase some of the gravest policies of Donald Trumps immigration agenda. And former president barack obama with a warning that disinformation still presents a clear and present danger to our democracy. All those stories coming up. Dont go anywhere. L those stori. Dont go anywhere. Tired of overpaying for your prescriptions . Try optum perks. Its a new way to save up to 80 . And everyone can do it. Its from optum, a Health Care Company thats trusted by millions of people. You dont have to sign up for anything. Just go to optumperks. Com. And get a coupon to use at your pharmacy. Thats it. I opted in. I opted in. You can, too. Opt in and save big today. Its time for aerotrainer, with your weight and health . You can, too. 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Do you wanna see something really cool . My man cave. Another sharma . Its a place to relax. Its hot in here. Uh, you might be more comfortable if you removed your fur pelt. I already did. Oh. The idea that the president is now resisting the advise or of covid saying they should resist. What the hell is the matter with these guys. What is the matter with them. Resist . Every major individual of any consequence in the health field is saying we can save a hundred thousand lives between now and january 21st by wearing these masks. You still have to say it, president elect joe biden there on the importance of wearing a mask, especially now and startling tweet over the weekend by the trump pandemic adviser scott atlas telling people to rise up against restrictions and retweet about the governors three week order closing schools and in person dining. Reactions to the promising vaccine today is another example of stark contrast between the leadership styles of the outgoing incoming president s. Trump taking credit, tweeting for great historians, remember these great discoveries took place on my watch. Joe biden, gracious and president ial, tweeted this. Todays news of a second vaccine is further reason to feel hopeful. I congratulate the brilliant women and men that produced this break through and brought us one step closer to beating the virus. Joining us, mayor of atlanta, keisha lance bottoms. First of all, how are you doing, how is your family doing and your city doing in light of this new wave, frightening wave of infection sweeping the country. Thank you for having me, and thank you for asking. I am doing fine. My son is doing fine. My husband still has lingering side effects from covid. Had it in july, went in perfectly healthy. Still has migraine headaches, fatigue, and new symptom. Sense of smell comes and goes, thats not something he experienced while he was ill, so i share that because it is just a reminder to people, this is nothing to play with. And especially as we get into the holidays, i am extremely concerned for families across our city and across our state and across our country. We know so many people will be gathering together and that we will likely see our numbers continue to rise. We are already seeing that happening in atlanta and across the state of georgia. It is extremely concerning. You know, were starting to hear from front line medical workers all over the country about patients that are very, very sick, even in the hospital, are in denial about covid. You live in a true battleground state, only state with automatic recount taking place. Joe biden ahead by more than 14, 15,000 votes there. What does that look like on the ground . What is the persuasion effort look like when you have half the residents of your state getting information from donald trump. Well, you know, fortunately as i move about in and around metro atlanta, i see people Wearing Masks. I think as unfortunate as my public battle was with the governor of our state and he filed a lawsuit against me personally regarding our mask mandate, i think that very public battle helped to educate the public on masks. So ive been pleasantly surprised at the number of people, and of course, while numbers are going up in our state are not as high as they were several months ago before we had the fight about the mask mandate, so on the other side of that battle, it allowed mayors across our state to institute a mask mandate. I think thats been helpful. Ill just tell you that disparities with covid are startling to me. In atlanta, about 44 of our residents who have been infected are africanamerican, yet 83. 9 of deaths arent africanamerican. It is very concerning, disparities we are continuing to see, and it is my hope that people will be mindful of other people who may not be as healthy as they are going into a battle with this disease. I want to ask you about the election that has already passed and its result and the election that is ahead, the two runoff races for senate seats in your state. First, i know you tweeted that the hand counting is a waste of time, that the vote count will stand. Just your thoughts on the result. Well, georgia is blue, even if just for a moment. It is my hope that will last through january. I say that because i dont want people to get comfortable and assume in january two senate seats will be easy to win because they wont be. Theyll only be won if people show up and vote and the hand count, look, our state law says that you can have a recount. If that gives people confidence in integrity of the election, it should go on as it is happening. I know the results will stand and im just very proud of our state, proud of the turnout across the state, very happy it went for joe biden which i have been saying it all year, that this would be our year to flip. So im glad the voters helped validate what i have been saying all year to the biden campaign. Madam mayor, you have front line experience with two of the great crises that gripped this country this year, the racial reckoning, we watched you in the streets of the city telling people to go home, you said it more forcefully than i just did, and not just your familys battle with coronavirus but working in a pretty divided state and city to protect the most vulnerable and protect your citizens against cross currents. You seem like the perfect candidate for a cabinet position. If offered, would you take one . As my mother said, thank you for the rumor. My focus is on atlanta, more than a notion to be the mayor. I know that president elect biden has not gotten to that part of the transition, so i dont know if ill be offered anything, but i have a pretty good job right now. But what ill say is what im most looking forward to is that the day to day distractions that come with donald trump wont be part of my job any more because i cannot tell you how taxing his behavior is on leaders across this country. We spend more time and energy responding to and having to adjust for his bad behavior than anybody should have to. Im looking forward to something normal, whatever that normal is, im looking forward to it. I think we all are. It is a Perfect Point to end on, the fact that joe biden still has to spend his time telling people to put a mask on, that we havent heard that message loud and clear yet is remarkable proof point of what you just said. Atlanta mayor, keisha lance bottoms, pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much. Up next for us. President elect joe biden has his work cut out for him. He spoke today on rebuilding the economy and there will also be challenges he will confront with tackling immigration. Homeland Security Department reshaped the last four years by donald trump, how to unwind that. Thats next. How to unwind that thats next. Ever since darrells family started using gain flings, their laundry smells more amazing than ever. Uh, honey . Isnt that the dogs towel . Hey, me towel su towel. Theres more gain scent plus oxi boost and febreze odor remover in every fling. Gain. Seriously good scent americans from both parties. Turned out to vote in numbers like we havent seen in a hundred years. And Election Officials counted those votes carefully, transparently and in accordance with the law. So, no matter who you voted for, if you cast a ballot, or counted them. Thank you for showing the world that even in times like these, america is still going strong. Refusal of democrats and republicans to cooperate with one another is not due to some Mysterious Force beyond our control, it is a conscious decision, a choice we make. We decide not to cooperate, we can decide to cooperate. I believe this is the part that mandate from the American People, part of the mandate they gave us, they want us to cooperate. With 65 days to go until he goes from president elect to president , joe biden is extending a hand to republicans, urging cooperation on a host of issues like covid relief. Negotiations on a package have been stalled in congress for months. Axios reports one of the biggest failures of the Current Administration and congress will be a day one problem for president elect joe biden, in an urgent test of his theory republicans will be more willing to work with him once President Trump is gone. Joining us, hans nichols, and reverend al sharpton, host of politics nation. President of National Action network. Rev, is he right, republicans going to work with him . I hope hes right for the good of the country. I am doubtful because so far we have seen the republicans have turned into a cult group for President Trump rather than a party thats dealing with maybe issues and policies i dont agree with, but at least they were the party. I hope joe biden is right. All that i see or signs that the public is in charge of the Republican Party. Hans, you report something, i didnt know whether to laugh or cry when i read this. Many republicans indicated they plan to return to their traditional orthodox ee of fiscal responsibility, despite driving up National Debt by trillions under trump. Could make bidens job harder. I guess this is what is to be expected. These are republicans, john mccain might have been said spending like drunken sailors to go along with trump as sort of the zombie enablers. Still havent concede the election, already have a plan to obstruct joe bidens legislative agenda . Apparently. All the signaling from republicans is theyre not going to spend the way theyre willing to spend, at least spring of this year. You mention john mccain, spending like drunken sailors, that they want to spend responsibly, it is a question of what that means, right . And in all the formulas you talk about, whats the multiplier effect, how much you need for unemployment insurance, these are real questions for real americans that are struggling. And as biden, as we get closer to inauguration day, one other challenge for biden is they dont know how big the hole will be. They simply dont know how much fiscal stimulus will be needed, how much relief for restaurants, hotels, airlines, a range of industries, because we dont know the extent of what the virus will look like in january. Those are big variables, big factors. Things can change, but it is not like theyre Getting Better for the challenge that biden will face. It sounds like an excuse looking for an obstruction. Rev, how does, i mean, i think people that havent covered or followed joe biden throughout his Senate Career mistake how much it is in his dna to understand the other side if not always agree with the other side. Do you think theres any point he will throw up his hands and say this is obstruction for obstruction sake or do you think he will really be on the phone doing the hard work, trying to compromise with a caucus that as hans is reporting has already come up with excuse for not helping millions of americans out of work because of the pandemic. From what i have observed and knowing joe biden for the last several years when he was Vice President under barack obama, i would work on certain things that i had access to him. I think what will force him to just say this is on the obstruction, were not in regular times. News flash to the republicans of the senate, were in a pandemic. We are dealing with people, tens of thousands found positive every day, so i think even the most reasonable people are going to have to at some point say enough is enough. We are going to have to do some things your orthodoxy may not be comfortable with, but people are dying and we are in the middle of unusual times. Youre going to have to stop and get out of your usual partisanship. You know, hans, speaking of all of the work before joe biden, theres reporting over the weekend about the immediate things that can be done at Homeland Security to reverse the muslim ban, some of the trump era immigration policies and there have been a lot of folks come out, olivia troy, elizabeth newman, a lot of people came out, told stories how egregious trumps overreaches were, how heinous policies were. Justice department is working on Inspector General report about child separation policy. What do you pick up about how much priority it is and how much unraveling of policies, how much leg work it takes, or is a lot of this president ial edicts, thinking of the coolest thing they could do eating oreos. In terms of how quickly you roll back, these are executive orders. Thats the danger of not going through congress. The next president if he or she wins can do it rather quickly. The big challenge that the Biden Administration will think about, they havent been able to look at the books, able to look underneath the hood. Number one, they want access, gsa has to make their ascertainment, at the same time, a lot of trump officials, referred to this over the weekend as refers to china, they want to cement their game, borough in some federal regulations. Next six days are a race. The Trump Administration will put many regulations in there. Not going to say theyll hide them, that gets to intent and motive, but these are things they believe in ideologically, theyll try to make it difficult for the next president to unwind. The next president wants to get in there and see whats going on. Thats why we get, i dont mean to say Agency Review teams on air, put everyone to sleep, but thats why this ascertainment by the gsa is so important. It allows the biden people to go in and take a look and see whats happened and what they can do to remedy it administratively or legislatively. Youre not putting anyone to sleep. It is the most important story in the federal government government now, the transition is stalled. It is important to remind people that didnt even happen in 2000 when an automatic recount was triggered because of margin in florida and there was real legal action. This is a fake recount. Theres no legal cause for reevaluating results, nothing that would change the result, yet theres no transition. Nobody is going anywhere. Youre staying put. When we come back, former president obama has a lot to say about the state of our democracy today. Thats next. Dont go anywhere. Today. Thats next. Dont go anywhere. An official message from medicare. Did you try it yet . Comparing plans . Oh yeah. They sure can change year to year. I found lower premiums and lower prescription costs. And those new insulin savings hundreds of plans, 35 a month. Thatll save you money. So uh, mark . On medicare. Gov now. Open enrollment ends dec 7th. Comparing plans. Really pays. Paid for by the u. S. Department of health human services. For members like martin. An air force veteran made of doing whats right, not whats easy. So when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. Thats how you do it right. Usaa insurance is made just the way martins family needs it with hasslefree claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. Because doing right by our members, thats whats right. Usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Usaa what it says is that we are still deeply divided. The power of that alternative world view thats presented in the media that those voters consume, it carries a lot of weight. Are you worried about that . Yes. It is very hard for our democracy to function if we are operating on just completely different sets of facts. Former president barack obama speaking out about the state of our democracy in his memoir in a series of new interviews. Describes the current moment on the brink of crisis, not just because trump is sewing division, but alternative reality of every issue we face. Back with hans nichols and al sharpton. I was off a couple days last week, i tuned into a little fox news in prime time and was aghast. I mean, they are pumping flagrant lies into millions of viewers. Theyre interviewing lunatics, they call them lawyers, not sure how any of them have law degrees, saying there are a million votes here, observers here. These cases have been filed. Theyve gone before judges that were democratic and republican appointees, and theyve all been thrown out. Do you share president obamas concern about the alternate universe of fact free information thats being pumped into trumps base . I see it absolutely and then some. We can have in any Political Climate different opinions, but cant have different facts. Were now in a nation where facts dont matter. You makeup facts. And not only do you have an alternative reality, how do you debate someone that is dealing from a totally fictitious premise . How do you debate a fantasy that someone wants to sell and people want to believe and i think the danger of that is in the middle of having to engage and try to knock down fantasies, we put ourselves at risk to a foreign enemy or some enemy like a pandemic that is a Natural Disaster because reality is not going to spare fantasy. We can go into fantasy land all we want. A reality will set in that will be detrimental, that we will be ill prepared to deal with because somewhere on fantasy island, rather than having two feet on the ground, that can have an intelligent disagreement but not debate the facts. You know, hans, i think about the white house in which i served, you i think that the difference there, because i was listen to president obama and i share his concern that the Bush Administration was covered obviously more favorably on fox news and far for critically on msnbc and other platforms. But the story that led the news was often the same, particularly in the months and years after september 11th. You know how a true alternate realty whe reality. But i want to play more of president obama because it seems that his warning for all of us is we have a new president but we dont have a new country. And we have half of the country that doesnt recognize the truth. Watch. We have gone through a presidency that disregarded a whole host of basic institutional norms. Expectations we have for a president that had been observed by republicans and democrats previously. And maybe most importantly and most disconcertingly, what weve seen is what some people call truth decay. Something that is accelerating by outgoing President Trump, the sense that not only do we not have to tell the truth, but the truth doesnt even matter. Hans, what do you think of that . Well, i think that president barack obama is considerably more pessimistic, im searching for the right word, that president elect joe biden. Aid i dont know who is right. That is not for me to adjudicate. But what you listen to what biden is saying, he is thinking he can get republicans to join him on his reality island. He is optimistic he could cut deals with some Senate Republicans whether that is Mitch Mcconnell, with whom he has a long rl wielationship witd i dont mean this divisively but he has confidence in the coming days and weeks and months and potentially years is him reaching across the aisle. And youve seen that. He wants to use the reverend als example, he wants to look past fantasy island. Hes throwing over it and trying to find republicans that are living in a reality and wants to have a deal with them to get to 51 votes to get aid out there to the American People that need it. But to the broader point of reality and their two realities now, if only, nicolle, there were two realities. Number of realities are about to refract and splinter as axio reported about a new trump channel. You could have center right and something several degrees to the right of fox and we have no idea what will help with 5g and the internet but two realities is at least manageable. 20 realities is impossible. And i dont know if the number gets to 20 but clearly things are fracturing and these are centrifugal forces that are in american politics right now and not spinning any slower. You know, and rev, market place of ideas and information and journalism is a wonderful thing. It is healthy for our democracy. I think obamas narrow point on truth and fiction is that it is not all an even Playing Field and i think folks in my line of work will spend time trying to decide if we covered two sides when only one side was telling the truth. I want to get the thoughts you wrote on joe bidens relationship with africanamerican voters. He said at his victory speech that africanamerican voters had always had his become and when he was down and out they were there for him and he would have their backs and what would that look like as policy and personnel and governing. Policy wise, lets start with the pandemic. Africanamericans are suffering disproportionately because the Health Infrastructure in our communities are not there. We talked on politics nation last night with Governor Cuomo who said that the president has laid out to distribution of a vaccine if a vaccine is available, is through hospitals and pharmacies. Well many of our communities have another. So how do we get equal distribution and deal with the fact that many blacks are suspect of the vaccine like the tuskegee experiment. How do we deal with the wealth gap are the average black family is the 10 of the wealth of a white family at a time were dealing with republicans talking about going back to othrthodoxy. And i sat in a room with joe biden and the floyd family before we do the final funeral. He talked about we have to deal with police reform. Well, does that mean he could talk to the other side about passing the georgia floyd policing and justice act that deals with policing, or the john lewis Voting Rights act. So there are substantive concrete things we want to talk to joe biden about and i think that we will be able to do that. I do not know how you reach across the aisle to a party who a man ran on saying i can shoot somebody on fifth avenue and theyll still vote for me. That is not a man that you can deal with hope. Im a preacher. I believe in faith. But i have little hope in donald trump and those that support him when he could tell you on his way in that he could shoot somebody and you would still vote for him. So we should not be surprised when we see him behaving that way and they still support him. And it is a marvel that will be studied for many years to come. Hans nicolles and the rev al sharpton, tahank you so much. The next hour of deadline white house starts offer a quick break. Dont go any where. Dont go any where [narrator] this is steve. He used to have gum problems. Now, he uses therabreath healthy gums oral rinse with clinicallyproven ingredients and his gum problems have vanished. crowd applauding therabreath, its a better mouthwash. At walmart, target and other fine stores. A president is a public servant. They are temporary occupants of the office. By design. And when your time is up, then it is your job to put the Country First and think beyond your own ego and your own interests and your own disappointments. My advice to President Trump is in you want at this late stage in the game to be remembered as somebody who put Country First, it is time for to you do the same thing. Hi, again, everyone. It is 5 00 in the east. The only problem with president obamas advice for donald trump is that at every fork in the road between the National Interest and donald trump pathological impulse to lie and cheat and deny reality, donald trump chooses the latter. The problem for the country is that now hes playing with our National Security in a moment that our adversaries where watching and a delayed tra transition puts the nation at risk which may explain why officials are calling on republicans to cut the cord on trumps election fantasies. Here is john bolton. I think it is very important for leaders of the Republican Party to explain to our voters who are not as stupid as the democrats think, that in fact, trump has lost the election and that his claims of Election Fraud are baseless. Every day that he delays under the pretense that hes simply asking for his legal remedies, ultimately is to the countrys disadvantage. In addition to john bolton, john kelly has the unwillingness to transfer power to president elect biden, catastrophic for the American People and brett mcgurk from the coalition to defeat isis who works for democratic and republican president s writes this, quote, the 9 11 Commission Report em facized personal and knowledge of pending threats and decisions, specifically it recommended that future administrations minimize National Security risks by providing after election day a classified compartment list that catsa logs operational threats to National Security. Major military and covert frags operations and as more time passes cracks from the inside are beginning to show. At a Global Security forum last week, remarks which were just made public today, Donald Trumps current National Security adviser Robert Obrien toke about facilitating a smooth transition. Look, if the biden harris ticket is determined to be the winner and obviously things look that way now, well have a very professional transition from the National Security council, there is no question about it. A near recognition that his boss didnt exactly win. And it is i striking contrast from the president s latest cries that hell concede nothing. What is becoming very apparent is that donald trump does not have the americas National Security in mind as he orchestrates purges at the pentagon and tweets lies from his twitter feed. New york times reports it this way. Facing the final 65 days in office, mr. Trump peers unwilling to rip from his gut and exercise of authority in the past five and a half years, a fierce determination to act only in his self interest and a near total refusal to accept blame or responsibility for his failures. Just over an hour ago the president elect joe biden told our colleague Geoff Bennett the consequences of a delayed transition are in fact grave. You spoke about the need to access the outgoing administrations Covid Vaccine distribution plans. What do you see as the biggest threat to your transition right now given President Trumps unprecedented attempt to obstruct and delay a smooth transfer of power . More people may die. If we dont coordinate. The outgoing president is a threat to our National Security is where we start with this hour. Ben rhodes is here and an msnbc contributor. Also joining us elizabeth neumann, former assistant sect for the department of Homeland Security. And now an adviser to the republican Political Alliance for integrity and reform. And John Heilemann is back and msnbc affairs nall, executive editor of the recount and host of the hell and high water podcast. Let me start with you, ben rhodes. Because ive been riveted by your twitter feed. Well, look, nicolle, i think there are two threats to our National Security. The first is that transition is a time when you get to up to speed so you could hit the ground running on january 20th and that means knowing everything from, yes, what is the current state of the Vaccine Distribution plan, what is the science about covid that people like dr. Fauci are following, but also what the Covid Operations that the United States is involved in around the world and the terrorist threat around the world and key adversaries like russia and china right now. If youre blind on that and taking responsibility for the entire u. S. Government on january 20th. It is going to take you a few weeks to figure out what is going on and that is time lost and that is time lost to deal with threats of covid. The second problem is this recentless effort to leigh legitimatize. If the country doesnt accept him as a legts presideitimate p and it appears that the Republican Party is trying to convince supporters that he is not a legitimate president and that is going to hamstring him both at home and abroad. Ben, i want to ask you about Brett Mcgurks oped. He invited the 9 11 Commission Report because the 9 11 Commission Found that one of the, as it went back and uned all of the various things that contributed to the attacks of 9 11, one of them was this shortened transition. I mean, it is no joke to say that Donald Trumps conduct could kill people. No, with covid it is very clear. It already has but delaying biden the information he needs to be the best president managing Covid Response on january 20th. Believe it or not, im old enough, i worked with the vice chair of the 9 11 commission at that time and part of what was happening is that the al qaeda threat was building and the Bush Administration was slow in getting up to speed and putting in place a krounter terrorism strategy and it took a month after the florida recounts were done. This is such precious time. Youre trying to do so many things as once. I remember from that time in 2008 part of the transition, youre hiring hundreds if not thousands of people but you need to know what youre you can wag in what youre walking into and you deal with the world you int int inherit and it is like you come in and prepare legislation in transition. You need to know what is going on in the middle east and what the russians are up to. There are so many things that are being hidden from the incoming Biden Administration. So that theyre not ready if they should be to do their job. Elizabeth, you were on the inside. You know what they might be hiding and you oversaw threats and sort of crafting policy to deal with threats. What is joe biden walking into in a Homeland Security regard . Well, ill echo what ben said. The whole process of hiring, thousands of people, getting them security clearances and then even those that served previously, people change overseas. You have leadership changes. Dynamic within the agencies themselves shift. You have different personalities in carth of different programs and you have policies shifts an all of that take times time to process and then take and there is a synchronization and a sin th sin thet is and now that you have additional sets of facts how you approach whatever your policy goals and aims are. That takes and when youre dealing with National Security issues and threats in particular, you cant catch up on four years worth of Threat Intelligence in a couple of weeks. And i know that there are republicans out there saying just wait until the electorate college, that is december and then they could start the transition. That means theyll have missed out on a month. It is a very short transition period for the size of the government. Losing a third of the transition time is not insignificant. It makes us at risk and there is no loss here. There is no it is very limited dollars that were talking about. It is mainly the access to the information and the personnel and the agencies. They could turn it around today with very little impact, if some bizarre something happens in the courts and trump is still ending up winning, you could revert back. You havent lost any time by investing in the biden Transition Team. So it makes no sense other than the political angle and for not wanting to upset the president , it makes no sense why there are more voices calling on Trump Administration to start the transition apparatus for the biden team. And john, i dont think this is what elizabeth meant, but there is no one on either side of the aisle that think any of the legal challenges have the capacity to change the result of the election. I want to read you something that lauren tribe wrote in the guardian. Our government requires legitimate elections. The senator chris murphy put it in republicans convince half of the country that those people that got elected were illegitimately chosen then so must be the actions they take when te get in office. American has a history of disobeying governments scheduling to the recount and plot to execute the governor for covid19 restrictions and even if violence doesnt ensue, this will reverberate for years to come. Weve talked about how dark and sinister and out in the open the plot was to kidnap and kill Gretchen Whitmer. I watched fox news and i what gast at the lies that theyre knowingly, these are not dumb people, theyre knowingly pumping lives into millions of americans. Yeah, hi, nicolle, how are you . Hi. Good to see you on this monday. It is such a dark picture. And i just want to double and triple down on what ive been watching your Program Since 4 00 and what everybody has been saying. You know, it is a dangerous world. It is a the world is dark and dangerous. It is always dark and dangerous. Were surrounded by adversaries and enemies all over the world. And now were also in the grip of a deadly pandemic. The most significant Public Health catastrophe that the country has faced since 1918. So we have enemies foreign and domestic in that sense. The pandemic is a giant enemy and we have other enemies around the world. It is hard for us to stay safe and keep alive in the best of circumstances. And to have a president and a party that are willfully, wantonly disregarding what the core of our strength in this moment. It is one thing to talk about these things in the high blown peaceful transfer of power is important. That is all true. But in a very practical way in this moment between an election and a new administration, this is always our maximum moment of vulnerability. It is the moment when, yeah, there is only one president at a time but the guy who is in there has lost and the guy who has won is not quite there. And so our adversaries around the world are always looking at this moment as a moment to strike. As a moment to try to pick off america. Weve seen it over and over again in my lifetime and yours. So to not engage in a active way, in a peaceful and smooth transition of power, is a kind of treason it seems to me. It is just outrageous and every republican and weve been saying this for a couple weeks but toss to the point where you add the foreign situation to the state of pandemic, where any sane patriotic humane leader of the Republican Party and the president who currently still occupied the oval office would be like im going to do anything i could to save the most american lives. Let me help to try to that is paramount. And of course the exact opposite is happening right now. Not just on the part of the president , who we really have no reason to expect anything better from after four years we should not expect better. We never should have and i never have. But the behavior on the part of so many people around the president , elected republicans, to continue this dark fantasy is really one of the most ive seen a lot of despicable things over the last four years but this takes the cake. Well, lets name names. I was off for a couple of days so i might have missed one but you only sound seven u. S. Republican senators for petes sake, to rubio, toomey, romney, and sasse, i talked to a trump adviser the day before the election who said their oeb polls dont have them getting to 270 and what will he do if he loses, why have we lowered the bar along with the people that know what a narcissistic weenie trump is. I dont think weve lowered the bar but i think that the republicans calculus here has been not Country First, the exact opposite of what your old boss used to say. Not Country First, but party first. And they have lhave lived in ab of donald trump and voters for the last four years. More than that. Stretching back in to 2016 and 2015. Theyve lived in terror of trumps power over the voters. And we saw on election day and weve discussed this, is that trump still has power over more than 70 million american voters, over a large chunk of the Republican Party and his suppose lick ants and his enablers that underlings in the Republican Party are terrified of his ability to turn voters against them in particular their focused on georgia recount elections in that is obviously what Mitch Mcconnell is paying attention to. He thinks he needs too mumaximu turnout to keep in the majority lead job and across the spectrum that are not the seven that youve mentioned who have done the minimum required of what a republican senator should do in this situation, other than that the rest of them are behaving in the exact same way of four years which is not loyal to donald trump and theyre not stupid, they know exactly what happened, they are terrified an putting themselves and what they see at of the partys interest ahead of the countrys interest every minute they dont come out and tell the truth and demand that donald trump do the same. Well, elizabeth newman, i know jon bolton is a polarizing figure, but it is important to cover what he said because hes not just a conservatives conservative, right of atilla the hun, boltons pac, he is the most conservative stripe and he wrote in an oped today that he expects a retaliation tour that he said trump will draw up a hit list of traitors to blame. I fully expect do be on it. The likely outcome is that the legal offensive will collapse and within a week. That doesnt mean trump will concede. Instead, he will proclaim stab in the back theories about why he lost and list the traitors in his administration and campaign who undercut him. I expect to be on that list and in very good company indeed and an attack the always unpopular news media and left wing activists poised to destroy the country. Are you afraid of a hit list that has your name on it . You know, i dont know that it is a good tling to be aware of. I dont spend much time worrying about. It is most important to focus on the country and what we need to do to build back conservatism and i cant even say that im trying to repair the Republican Party any more. It seems so far gone that they cant even call out facts like the facts that biden is the president elect. But at least we could start to find a path for rebuilding conservatism. So im focused on what we need to do to bring healing and to Cast Division for what conservatism is and hopefully find a way to work with president elect biden in addressing some very Critical Issues that our country is facing right now. So i the president will love to squawk. His bark is worse than his bite usually. And it is very effective, his bark. Because a lot of people are intimidated by it. Theyre scared that he really can harm them. And what i found is that there tends to not be much they could do if you stay within the bounds of the law and careful with how you approach your outspokenness against him, there is not much that they could do. So it is a good thing to be aware of. But i think being on side of what is best for the country is the best place to be and to stay safe. Well your courage and clarity always inspire in me. Thank you for spending time with us. Ben rhodes thank you as well. John is sticking around. When we come back. Another glimmer hope of on the horizon in the battle against coronavirus. But the hospitalizations and cases breaking records, things look like they might get a lot worse before they get better. That is ahead. Plus Donald Trumps refusal to go quietly, means he is aware of the serious legal jeopardy when he leaves office and as more allies congratulate joe biden on his election victory, what could they possibly have to say to trumps secretary of state, the one to promised a smooth transition to a second trump turn. That is ahead when deadline white house returns after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Just get started. I didnt know why my body was moving on its own. It turns out i have tardive dyskinesia, a condition that may be related to important medications i take for my bipolar disorder. Tardive dyskinesia can affect different parts of the body. It may also affect people who take medication for depression and schizophrenia. 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Right now i would ask that everybody in the community do their part. It is important to do social distancing, to wear your masks, not just for yourself but to please keep the members of your community safe. There are doctors and nurses and other hospital staff living in your community and if they catch covid, and they get sick, they wont be available to take care of you, your family and your friends. Warnings from Front Line Health Care workers that are growing louder after another weekend of startling kroecoronas numbers. The United States has surpassed 11. 1 million coronavirus cases and more than 247,000 americans have died. In this third wave, we are now averaging 145,000 cases and 1,000 deaths per day. Averaging. And experts warn that things will get worse before they get better. But today there was some promising news. The second medical breakthrough in a week. Moderna said early data shows its vaccine is 94. 5 effective. Joining us now, lori garrett, yurnlist and columnist and marla gai. First im out of words for the numbers. And as you do obituaries every day, every person that dies is blowing up a family, a community, a school, a nursing home, the community in which they live and were now looking at numbers and shrugging people online to get into bars and eating indoors and restaurants and still ignoring mask mandates. Where are we . Well, nicolle, it is grim. Your tone of your correction correctly mirrors the situation were in. About 40 of americans say they plan to go have a feast on thanksgiving with ten or more other people. And it is just astounding that the highest rates of per capita of covid are in counties that voted solidly for donald trump. It is overwhelming a sense that a very significant percentage of our population is kind of in a mass state of denial. It doesnt really want to accept the news about this terrible epidemic, indeed, one young nurse was posting today on twitter that her patients actually curse at her and yell at her. There is no such disease. This is all a hoax. Shes working in south dakota. I think were in a really dire situation here with a president that is exiting and continues to downplay the significance of the epidemic claiming credit for todays vaccine announcements. And the public at large is just not getting it. You know, youve written about the coming plague, youve studied other countries reaction this year to this pandemic, is anyone else, is there any other variable to just how sick were becoming in terms of infections and flouting the few things that we could do, wear masks and social distance and not gather indoors. Well of course other countries also have surges and also seen a segment of their population resist Wearing Masks or protest against social distancing efforts by the governments. But nothing, nothing compares to the United States. Not even close. And it is in large part because of the biggest denier is the president of the United States himself. And his white house leadership. And so the average person that is tired of being in lockdown, tired of not going to the favorite bar or not eating out, could say well the president said dot, dot, dot and off you go to the bar or to eat out, off you go to invite 40 people over for a little party among friends. And it is there is just no other country where the president or the leader of the nation is in such a absolutely profound state of denial. You know, marg you have shared your own experience with covid, your own long recovery. And you wrote about the pandemic as it started to sweep across the country, beyond our home state of new york. Are you surprised that now that i think the New York Times reported that one in every three or four people now know somebody infected with coronavirus. There people still arent doing the few things they could do to protect themself . I think im not surprised. Im still shocked. I hope that we havent lost our sense of outrage. Which comes from the best scenario compassion for one another as human bgz. When i wrote about my experience months ago, i really tried to send a warning to those outside of new york that this is not the flu, that is it is real and whether you have no symptoms at all, or become very ill or die, you could spread this to others and there is in some ways now given how little we know rhyme or reason why some become sick and die and others dont. But what were learning more and more what is really matters is not just the kind of information that we receive in this divided country. But who gives it to us. And my hope is that this suffering is not in vain across the country. My fervent home is that those who are strong enough, brave enough to share their own experiences, this terrible virus in south dakota, in the midwest, all across the country, and in trump country, that they would be talking to their neighbors and their fellow parishioners and Community Members about this virus and what it could do and how important it is to take it seriously. I also think were dealing with a leadership vacuum obviously from the white house. And across the country. So that is not to be underestimated. But there has been an important shift in the past few days ive noticed. In which people are starting to talk not just about statistics, but about the real human toll of the virus. That is something that we real understood early on in new york. But, unfortunately, that lesson wasnt heeded and now you see papers in minneapolis having pages and pages of obituaries in the past couple of days. And tragic as that is, i think that is what is going to bring home to people that it is real. You know, lori, i want to ask you about the two breakthroughs but in the context of this conversation, it would see that i just canceled plans to see very small family gatherings over the holidays because it seems like this is the most dangerous moment and this means that this wont be the situation next thanksgiving and next campus. And my experience is different but working for george w. Bush after 9 11, there was an effort on the part of the white house to call on the country to not be afraid, to go out and do normal things, to heed the safety precautions of the tsa, to take our shoes off. If you see something, say something. Do you think that joe biden, if he sort of assumes office with the posture and the mindset of the a warm time president at war against a deadly pandemic with hope on the horizon that he could turn these trajectories around. Well, nicolle, right now, he has a tough ordeal. Because hes not his Transition Team is not being allowed inside of the fda and inside of the cdc where they could map out a reasonable arc of response. That would carry what is going on right now, the approval process for the two first vaccines out the chute, and there are several more behind them that are likely to come forward for fda approval in the next four or five weeks. And theyre all complicated. They all have interesting innovative aspects that weve never put to the test before and it requires sophistication to get into the middle of it and decide how will we choose between them and which ones warrant the most attention and how should they be implemented across america but without a transition the trump people are mapping out a strategy that they will not be around to execute. And the biden people will be saddled with whatever gets handed off to them. This is just looney tunes. And on top of it all, it is going to put President Biden in the uncomfortable position, if they cant shake things up before inauguration day, of having to defend policies that he did not actually promulgate. Yeah. What a complicated state of affairs we have ourselves in. Lori garrett and marg gay. Thank you both for spending time with us today. When we come back, one reason donald trump may be fighting to hold on to the presidency, he faces some very serious legal problems on the other side. That is next when deadline white house continues. Dont go anywhere. Continues dont go anywhere. With sweet potato fries. doorbell rings thanks splitsies . Oooh. You meant the food, didnt you . combative yelling he used to have bad breath. Now, he uses a capful of therabreath fresh breath oral rinse to keep his breath smelling great, all day long. combative yelling therabreath, its a better mouthwash. At walmart, target and other fine stores. The end of the Trump Presidency could mean the start of a must chapter in Donald Trumps legal troubles. Donald trump will become a private citizen on january 20th and that means he loses immunity from prosecution while there are two investigations into the president s businesses. One of which is a criminal probe being conducted by Manhattan District Attorney sigh vance. Hes made a lastditch effort to the Supreme Court to try to get him financial records and if he uncovers possible crimes, inflaming political tensions and raising the startling spector of a criminal conviction on even prison for a former president. Joining our conversation Nick Confessore and John Heilemann is still here. This piece was so stark in sort of articulating the why. Were all watching Donald Trumps crazy inain conduct but the why as someone close to him said there is fear on his part of criminal prosecution. Nick . Well, yes, absolutely. Look, he faces two separate investigations in new york alone. The first is a criminal investigation into allegations of tax fraud. Substantiated in the New York Times, in my paper, some years agoch an that is really serious and the prosecutor there has their own constituency and will not be happy if he goes easy on donald trump. But either of these carries a lot of consequences. An tax fraud is a hard thing to prosecute. Cases are complex and they take time to build and bring but it is fascinating to stop and consider that these are all allegations concerning things that he did before he was president. It is all for conduct prepresidency. And it is pretty hard to imagine if youre honest that he would be facing these problems if he hadnt run for president in the first place. It is a good point. Youre paper has done extraordinary body of reporting about his financial troubles and the financial posturing of his company. The wall street journal adds to some of that reporting today. Basically by talking about how leveraged he is. Two new york investigations continue that weve been talking about and the Trump Organization has a cash crunch caused by guaranteed he made on the organizations debt at urgency to shore up the financial position. We talked about this as a National Security crisis for the country and for donald trump it takes on totally different dynamic, nick. Absolutely. Look, he has 400 million in loans that he personally guaranteed coming into the next two years. He got all of this business to his properties from people who wanted something from a President Trump but he lost more business from people who didnt want to be associated with President Trump. So he probably losing the influence peddling business. It is not clear he gains back the people who shied away because he was a toxic president. So that adds up to a real business conundrum for him. If his if his money and income is in the brand and the brand is tarnished in many of the country, so how does he make up enough money to hold on to doral and the other properties. It is not clear yet. John, it is out there and i dont know if was been reported by anyone yet but this conversation about whether the president will pardon himself and i could just imagine him on google, googling whether or not you could pardon one self. But what do you think hell do for his family and other people in the trump org in the pardon space . You know, nicolle, i imagine that well have in the last week or so before he departs, i could imagine well have an unprecedented pardon flood for a lot of friends of the president. People who he who owe him favors and debts that are going to come due and ill try to doll out. Whether there is obviously all of this kind of legal question about exactly what the president can or cant do for himself. I think for a while that as you watch him right now trying to wage this obviously futile campaign to keep a kind of obviously bogus legal charges alive, to keep the notion that hes that the presidency has been stolen from him and it is all illegitimate, that what were seeing is him trying to run a play that was designed for a different set of circumstances that he had in his head and there is smrt soome part of wha was thinking if this election is really close, and i could rally my people enough and i could hold out the threat of sort of civil unrest, that i might be able to somehow cut a deal with someone to back off and if the election is close and there is enough chaos that i have the power to inflict, if i could turn somewhere or to more than one direction, could i somehow cut a deal. James car vel floats this notion that he was setting himself up to lose by narrowly enough to hold the country hostage and say, the only path to peace is by letting me off the hook. Let me out of all of these legal entanglements that im in. But the problem is the election wasnt not that close and joe biden ended with a pretty decisive victory where the ability to hold the country hostage was dependent on the outcome but we have 306 electorate votes and margins that arent big enough to ever close through what any kind of a legal challenge and that leaves trump playing out kind of calling a play for a game that isnt the game that this is actually unfolding on the field and make it look ridiculous at this moment. That is such an interesting theory. And it seems like the wrinkle in it is that even if he thinks he could sort of engineer some scenario with the federal government, new york state has proven to be very or the office has been independent minded in all of this. Wonderful to see both of you. Thank you for spending time with us. When we come back, what does it say that among the other people who havent congratulated joe biden are donald trump, most of the Republican Party, and Vladimir Putin. Our Senior International correspondent keir simmons will answer that question next from london. T question next from london for members like martin. An air force veteran made of doing whats right, not whats easy. So when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. Thats how you do it right. Usaa insurance is made just the way martins family needs it with hasslefree claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. Because doing right by our members, thats whats right. Usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Usaa there will be a smooth transition to a second Trump Administration. All right. Were ready. The world is watching what is taking place. Were going to count all of the votes. When the process is complete, theyll be electors selected. That was yu secretary of state, mike pompeo debasing the podium six days ago affirming a Trump Victory that does not exist. That isnt real. Today he has begun his first leg of an overseas trip to visit sen nations across europe and the middle east that has publicly congratulated joe biden on his election victory and pledged to work with the Incoming Administration as trump and his administration refused to concede to joe biden. World leaders are bracing for whiplash as biden plans to reverse a number of trump policies on the very first day in office. Lets bring into the conversation International Correspondent keir simmons. What does this look like inside of the room . Does mike pompeo act like hes on planet earth or carry the lie to foreign capitols . Reporter i dont think hes to people honestly here, nicolle. Why the secretary of state is on such a long foreign tour to many places like paris that are in the midst of a coronavirus pandemic and in lockdown, the french have a unique ability of for con de sengs and today president macron described the meeting with mike pompeo as a courtesy visit. It is being described by others here as a lame duck tour. There is concern in capitals in europe about potential plans for example to draw down u. S. Troops in afghanistan. I think the French Foreign ministry would have put pressure on about that. But there was no News Conference because i think it all just feels so awkward. And then the secretary of state is going on to turkey where he will meet with no government ministers at wuall, just member of the orthodox ministry church. The secretary of state is going there and not meeting with a single government official. So, look, it is a tour paid for by the texas and hes traveling with his wife and hes entitled to and it might be potential voters for him in a future political campaign. But not getting great headlines here. And Vladimir Putin is holding out as we discussed there before. There were legal machinations on going. And he and Rudy Giuliani is about it. Is there any pressure in his country to acknowledge the next american president . I dont think there is, nicolle. Honestly, and i was in moscow a few weeks ago, talked to some people from the kremlin. I think they are pretty negative about it all. If you think back to 2016, actually there was some genuine hope in the higher echelons in russia that there might be a change to the u. S. Russia relationship through President Trump. They clearly know that isnt happening now and they have big domestic challenges, too. So russia, i think, is locked down, not just with the coronavirus, but also politically in terms of its relationship with america now. We will stay on this story with you. Nbcs keir simmons live for us in london. Thank you so much, my friend. When we come back, as we do every day, remembering lives well lived. Im not a person thats going to sit too long. In the morning, i wake up and the first thing i do is go to my art studio. A couple came up and handed me a brochure on prevagen. Ive been taking prevagen for about four years. I feel a little bit brighter and my mind just feels sharper. I would recommend it to anyone. It absolutely works. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Here . Nah. Introducing the all new chevy trailblazer. Here . Nope. Here. When the middle of nowhere, is somewhere. The all new chevy trailblazer. Making lifes journey, just better. So we mentioned at the top of todays program that the United States is poised to surge past 250,000 covidrelated deaths at some point in the next few days. Think about that. 250,000 people gone. A number that big, that abstract can be difficult to wrap your head around, to visualize. So in an effort to grasp the catastrophic enormity of this pandemic, lets talk about what the number 250,000 looks like. Maybe this will help. 250,000 is greater than the entire population of richmond, virginia, by about 20,000 people. If youre more spatially inclined, pictured this. So say you wrote the name of an american covid victim on a postit note and then you stuck it at the base of the statue of liberty. After that, another postit note with another name, repeat that 250,000 times and youd go from Lady Libertys toe to her torch 23 times over. Take it a step further. Lets say we read all of those postit notes, three seconds a name, wed be reading names until wednesday morning. As in next wednesday. Nine days from right now. And if we continued on with our lives well lived segment, one person every day, even on weekends, wed be reading obituaries until october 22nd in the year 2705. Thats more than 680 years. For perspective, going the other way, 680 years in the past, that was a century before joan of arc was even born. Thats what were up against. Like we said, 250,000 is a big number. But for so many families all that means, all that matters is one. One parent. One friend. One neighbor. One child. This is 5 yieyearold teagan. She just started kindergarten. She was smart. He loved to spell. She adored peppa pig. She always wore a mask outside and made her mom do the same. According to the nbc affiliate in amarillo, texas, teagan started feeling tired and sick at the end of last month, so, of course, her parents took her to the doctor. And 15 hours after, she was gone. Like we said, big numbers are abstract, but faces, faces are not abstract. And this one, this face belongs to teagan drone, one of nearly 250,000 lives well lived. Cut too short. Well be right back. Youre still the one that i love to touch still the one and i cant get enough were still having fun, and youre still the one. Applebees 2 for 20. Its date night in the neighborhood. Renew active. Only from unitedhealthcare. Applebees 2 for 20. Watch it sweat it bend and stretch it track it share it and compare it renew active gives you so many ways to be healthy. Get medicare with more. I guess i look pretty. Ridiculous. [ chuckles ] no one looks ridiculous, bob. Progressive is always here for you with roundtheclock service. Just so you know, next time, you can submit a claim with our mobile app. Good. Thanks again for for rushing over. Are you kidding . This is what 24 7 protection looks like. Okay. You smell like fish. Sorry. I was talking to jamie. You smell like fish. Sorry. Its moving day. And are doing the heavy lifting, jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. It only takes about a minute. Wait, a minute . But what have you been doing for the last two hours . Delegating . Oh, good one. Move your Xfinity Services without breaking a sweat. Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Xfinity makes moving easy. Go online to transfer your services in about a minute. Get started today. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. Were so grateful. The beat with my friend ari melber starts right now. Hi, ari. Thank you for filling in, doing double duty. Im grateful. Of course. And you know that was just one. I dont know how you do two hours in a row every single day but you do it well, nicolle. Its the good graces of our viewers who keep me for two hours. Thank you very much. I hope you enjoyed your rest. Have a good show. As i told people at the time, you deserved it. We will have a good show. Thanks, nicolle. I want to welcome everyone to the beat. Im ari melber. President trump made today, get this, his first reference to president elect bidens victory,