Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline White House 20200625

Doesnt seem to be working right now for a variety of reasons. Its a perfect storm in part of the president s making. You have an American Population that is uninterested in seeing him, seeing the president be so divisive and racist and the views of americans seem actually the sentiment is with the protesters. You have white liberals and younger white voters in general who have very different views on this than the president. You see a softening of the president s base in older voters who are extremely concerned about the virus. If you look at michigan, the president is really under water compared to joe biden. Michiganders say they believe their state has been treated worse during the pandemic by the president. Thats not a good number for President Trump. Hes under water for a reason. He keeps going back to the same playbook, but his audience isnt there. Its shrinking. Its not working. I dont know if hes capable of being empathetic and the leader we need at this time. Rallies arent going to cut it. Robert, i guess the assumption is you go to war with the demographic you have. Theres a real politic angle to this decision hes made to go deep on law and order, policing and the statue preservation. He is passing up what appears to be a democrat graphic change under way under our feet. Hes also passing up the chance for now to lean into the congressional negotiations about Police Reform. Its stalled in the senate. The House Democrats i spoke with Speaker Pelosi today. Shes moving forward with a vote on the George Floyd Justice and policing act in the house. It doesnt have much of a road ahead. It would take Political Capital from the white house to put together something that would ban chokeholds and establish a database for police conduct. The president is being told by his advisers you have to make gains with suburban voters. He has a belief that if hectic up his support in places like rural wisconsin and south western pennsylvania that will help balance the erosion of his support in the suburbs. Every day whether its the bolton book or the lincoln project, some conservatives are coming at the president s gop support. Mara gay, new yorker and coronavirus survivor, how does it feel to live in a state where if you have a guest driving up to visit you from florida they would have to voluntarily agree to quarantine for 14 days . I have to say that its very disappointing. Its disheartening because it was bad enough that we mishandled things here in new york and led to 24,000 deaths, an estimated 24,000 deaths here in new york city, my plea has been to learn from us, learn from our mistakes to take this virus seriously, to understand it isnt the flu. It could be extremely deadly or serious for you or someone you love or a neighbor you come into contact with. Im very frustrated because this has become politicized in a way it shouldnt be. Its led to be its led some americans, i think, to distrust the experts and to not really follow the guidance of Health Officials. Some Health Officials are getting threats locally across the country. I understand that americans are suffering greatly from unemployment. The least we can do is take precautions to wear masks and keep your distance and avoid events like the president s rallies, especially inside. Just take good care of each other. Mara gay, robert costa, thank you for spending a few minutes with us this afternoon. We appreciate it. When we return on this thursday afternoon, its been one month since the death of george floyd and the start of a protest movement in his name that has quietly and slowly in some cases not so quietly, transformed our country. On capitol hill theres no clear way forward on Police Reform as House Democrats are set to pass a sweeping reform bill that republicans and the president say has no chance to become law. All this as a new case of a suspicious death in Police Custody is coming to light. Custody is coming to light lets be honest. Quitting smoking is hard. Like, quitting every monday hard. Quitting feels so big. So try making it smaller, and youll be surprised at how easily starting small can lead to something big. Start stopping with nicorette. Starting small can lead to something big. You may be learning about, medicare and supplemental insurance. Medicare is great, but it doesnt cover everything. Only about 80 of your part b medicare costs. A Medicare Supplement Insurance Plan may help cover some of the rest. Learn how an aarp Medicare Supplement Insurance Plan, insured by Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company might be the right choice for you. A free decision guide is a great place to start. 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Huh run the newest streaming app has landed on xfinity x1. Now thats. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Xfinity x1 just got even better with peacock premium included at no additional cost. No strings attached. Just say peacock into your voice remote to start watching today. The police chief in tucson, arizona has offered to resign two months after 27yearold Carlos Ingram lopez died in Police Custody while being held face down and handcuffed. The chief released body cam footage of the incident yesterday. It comes with a warning to our viewers, like so many other videos weve seen this is disturbing to watch. Police say no choke holds or blows or strikes or knees to the neck were used by lopez was restrained. The medical examiner didnt determine a manner of death but said he died by cardiac arrest by intoxicated by cocaine. The four officers involved resigned. The incident in tucson the latest in a string of deaths related to police. Its making headlines after the death of george floyd beneath the knee of a Police Officer in minneapolis. Floyds death fueled weeks of global demonstrations, but theres growing uncertainty about whether the call by those millions who took to the streets will be answered at the federal level and whether Police Reform legislation will become law this year. Today the house is expected to pass a Police Reform bill introduced by democrats in congress in floyds name. That vote will likely be along party lines and will go nowhere in the republicanled senate. Thats because republican senators have their own bill blocked by democrats, but supported by the president who is choosing to use his executive powers to protect confederate statutes and to set policing standards as high and strong as there is on earth. Were happy to be joined by the chair of the Congressional Black Caucus who has coresponsponsor democratic bill. Congresswoman, for all those who have learned over the years not to expect much from washington, isnt this sadly just more confirmation by us that we shouldnt expect much from washington . No, absolutely not. Im proud well pass the bill off the floor today. You described what happened in the senate. The process doesnt end there. Theres more discussions to happen. I was on the floor talking to my republican colleagues today. I called senator scott. There will be conversations. I dont see this as the end of the process. The world is witnessing how the sausage is made. With the tens of thousands of people marching in every state of the union, the fact there are people in other countries marching for human rights in the United States, i believe you know this was raised at the United Nations by 54 african countries. We absolutely must act. Its important we not act sym l symbolly. If you think about it, bryaian, you know congress can take 20 years to act. The fact we are acting on anything this soon, it took us one month to develop comprehensive legislation, thats record speed for congress. Were not going to stop until we get a transformative bill on the president s desk. Ill give you that much. As you guys in congress do your thing thank you. Maybe the other way to ask this is isnt it a great time for governors and mayors to step up . Absolutely, it is. Thats one of the things about the process too. While were undergoing what were doing in washington, it has helped states and local governments act as well. So i think all of the movement that is happening right now is really exciting to me. It takes a while. Its better that we take a while and get it right rather than just pass something that is superficial. Why do we need to study chokeholds . Why do we need to study noknock warrants . We know about these things. You showed the young man there. He may have been intoxicated, but try and have two or three people sit on your chest and see if you live. Sometimes its not about the neck. Sometimes its about the chest. Thats what happened to that young man. I think were further ahead than i would have thought. I dont know when the last time both houses of congress entertained any legislation related to police. Finally, about the phrase defund the police, i watched an interview with you so closely because you have been around and you live in the real world. You kind of knew i do. When it first became public, you knew it was going to be trouble. Here we note all the people who believe in it passionately. We also note that everyone who has been on my broadcast to talk about it, felt the need to explain what it means. I believe you were one of the first to say, folks, this is going to become an ad for republicans. This is going to be used against us politically and, of course, it has already. But, you know, the thing is in our bill we provide for grants to communitybased organizations to begin to reenvision policing. You can talk to a Police Officer any day of the week, theyre the first to tell you theyre not a social worker. Why should they be involved in solving marital disputes . Why should they be involved in helping people who are mentally ill . In l. A. We have a jail called the twin towers. We say its the Biggest Mental Health ward in the country. Police budgets keep going up when social services and Health Services and economic support goes down. We need to right that ship. We believe our bill takes the first step in that direction. Well get it done, brian. Have some faith. We want the American People to keep protesting every day. I want the protests to be peaceful. Thats the kind of pressure that Congress Needs in order to act. Optimism noted. Before i let you go, can you confirm something i read about you. You are being vetted by joe biden to potentially be a vp pick . You know what, well leave that to the campaign to say. I want you to know i have singular focus right now. Thats on the George Floyd Justice and policing act. The veteran congresswoman, karen bass. Thanks very much for spending time with us. Good luck to you at your day job. A programming note joy reed will host a special hour tomorrow night, 7 00 p. M. Eastern. Were calling it the road to reform. Joy will be talking to members of the Congressional Black Caucus including one congresswoman karen bass. When we come back, its home to more people that wyoming and vermont, yet the District Of Columbia has no voting representation in congress. After the National Guard was deployed to break up protests, were on the eve of a historymaking vote as washingtonians continue their demand for state hood. Theyre getting a lot of help. G. Taking align probiotic daily can help. 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Get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. Dont stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection, or your asthma worsens. Headache and sore throat may occur. Could you be living a bigger life . Ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. This moment right now. This is our commencement. No, well not get a diploma or a degree of any kind. But we are entering a new chapter in our lives. Our confidence is shaken; our hearts cracked. The kind of a crack that comes from the loss of a job; from life plans falling apart. We didnt ask for it. But we are rising to meet it. And how far weve come isnt even close to how far we can go. We just have to remember how patient we were. How strong we can be. how strong you can be. and remember this; theres a crack in everything for a reason. How else can the light get in . Tomorrow starts today. For spending a perfectly reasonable amount of time on the couch with tacos from grubhub . Grubhubs gonna reward you for that with a 5 off perk. doorbell rings [crowd] grubhub fireworks exploding they get that no two people are alike and customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. What do you think . I dont see it. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Begging us not to be cynical about congress. Tomorrow the house of representatives is going to vote to make washington, d. C. A state. But majority leader mcconnell says he wont bring this up for a vote in the senate. The white house says the president would veto it. The issue has new importance after President Trump released the National Guard to remove protesters. D. C. Is not a state and doesnt have the protections that other states have. Because of that, the mayor of d. C. Painted on the street black lives matter. Were joined by the host of andrea mitch reports, one andrea mitchell. Even the license plates in washington, d. C. Say taxation without representation. Reporter youre right. The renewed effort for d. C. State hood gained Fresh Movement after the killing of george floyd when President Trump threatened to deploy the military against protesters. The National Guard was deployed. That demonstrated anew how local officials were powerless to object. Its the city where federal forces cleared protesters across from the white house with chemical gas so the president could cross the park to a photo op. While a military helicopter swooped down over city streets to chase urban demonstrators, a combat zone maneuver. The citys mayor could not stop any of that or troops being stationed at is a credsacred mu because washington is the only jurisdiction where the National Guard answers to the president. We have two senators that vote for us around speak for us, but we need to make sure our borders arent breached by the federal government. The capital has 702,000 residents more than vermont of wyoming. People here pay more federal taxes than 22 states. They dont have a vote in congress not since a law passed in 1801 when Thomas Jefferson was president. What does it feel like to never be able to vote on final passage for one of your bills . Its like my city is not fully respected despite paying the highest federal income taxs per capita in the United States. Narrator Eleanor Holmes norton was born in d. C. 88 years ago, the great grand daughter of a virginia slave who made it to d. C. For freedom. He made it to freedom, but never made it to equality. Thats why we need personally. So help me god. Reporter with no senator, d. C. Residents have no say on confirming Supreme Court justices, cabinet members or other officials. Congress hasnt debated state hood since 1983 when it lost. Despite strong support in the house, most Senate Republicans are still opposed. I dont think youll have many in the republican conference for that. Reporter fridays debate will give washington a chance to protest against taxation without representation, a principle that was supposed to be settled by the founders more than 200 years ago. On the Senate Floor Today Senate Tom Cotton said state hood would turn the States Capital into a gerrymandered government theme park. Whats the objection to it really, andrea . Reporter its politics. The d. C. Population is mostly democratic. They vote for democrats in local elections and in the president ial election. They would be diluting the senate, adding two more Democratic Senators likely. In the old days it was the southern democrats who were against it because it was a predominantly black city and they didnt want more blacks in the senate or the house. You have 229 house members sponsoring, but its not going to pass. Just a novel idea that Many Americans without representation in congress to say nothing geographically of where they are and what so many do for a living. Andrea mitchell, thank you. Thanks to everyone watching for joining us for this hour of coverage. Ill be back with you at 11 00 p. M. Eastern time. Nicolle wallace is back with us. She will be with you at the top of the hour for deadline white house. L baking, or polar ice cap airconditioner mode. Because the tempurpedic breeze delivers superior cooling from cover to core. Helping you sleep cool, all night long. During the tempurpedic summer of sleep, save 500 on all tempurbreeze mattresses. And experience your coolest sleep this summer, on our best breeze savings of the year. I see all the Amazing Things you have been doing. You are transforming business models, and virtualizing workforces overnight. Because so much of that relies on financing, we have committed two billion dollars to relieve the pressure on your business. As you adapt and transform, were here with the people, financing, and technology, ready to help. remember when any footlong was five dollars . hit it, charlie. Oh, youre five, five. Fivedollar, five dollar fivedollar footlong. Its freshly made with veggies. Its back. Fivedollar footlongs are back when you buy two. For a limited time. When you buy two. There are times when our need to connect really matters. To keep customers and employees in the know. To keep business moving. Comcast business is prepared for times like these. Powered by the nations largest gigspeed network. To help give you the speed, reliability, and security you need. Tools to manage your business from any device, anywhere. And a team of experts here for you 24 7. Weve always believed in the power of working together. Thats why, when every connection counts. You can count on us. Hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in the east. New Battle Ground polls out today show how badly Donald Trumps 2020 Campaign Strategy of preserving the history of the confederacy are polling four and a half months out from the november election. The rising number of Coronavirus Infections in the United States and Donald Trumps abdication of leading a robust federal response to the pandemic have contributed to his plunging poll numbers. Axios reporting over half the country, 26 states, have seen their coronavirus case loads increase over the past week. New cases are up 77 in arizona, 75 in michigan, 70 in texas and 66 in florida. The latest polls of voters in battle states find trump severely trailing his democratic rifl rival, all of those states he won in 2016. In michigan joe biden leads donald trump by 11 points. In wisconsin joe biden also leads donald trump by 11 points. In florida its biden by 6. In arizona biden by 7. In North Carolina joe biden now has a sizeable 9point lead. Donald trump is facing a hurdle that an incumbent hasnt seen since george h. W. Bush in 1992. Bush went on to lose that election. Calling into question trumps priorities theres no denying where trump travels he endangers those he forces to make those rallies happen, including his own supporters. From the Washington Post dozens of secret Service Officers and agents who were on site in tulsa were ordered to selfquarantine after two of their colleagues tested positive for the coronavirus, part of the fall out from trumps insistent of holding the gatherings over the objections of public Health Officials. Trumps botching of the pandemic has claimed the lives of over 122,000 americans. This has now reached the stage of trumps personal defiance from the guidance of his own cdc, contributing to the countrys inability to stop the spread. Golf is heading to his golf club in new jersey tomorrow. The people in the garden state have been warned the president will defy the quarantine order, making him the neighbor nobody wants at their fourth of july barbecue. In case theres any doubt about his am bif lance for testing, trump joe biden slamming President Trumps approach to testing and why. Take a listen. Testing unequivocally saves lives. Widespread testing is the key to opening our economy again. Thats one edge of the sword. The other edge is he thinks that finding out that more americans are sick will make him look bad. Thats what hes worried about. His worried about looking bad. Well, donald trump needs to stop caring about how he looks and start caring about whats happening in the rest of america. That is where we start with some of our favorite reporters friends. Dr. Lena wen is back, Ashley Parker and eugene robinson. Eugene, im going to start with you. Donald trump has now nothing is behind the curtain. Hes now running on the restoration of confederate monuments and history for some inexplicable rationale and spreading the plague. The polls would speak for himself. Is it too late . Is this a nose dive or can he still recalibrate . Well, nicolle, if this isnt a nose dive, it will do until the nose dive arrives. Not just the New York Times poll, but every poll in the luka sabb last couple weeks show President Trumps poll numbers heading south. Theyll surely bottom out at some point because he has a solid, loyal, fanatical base. Thats not nearly enough to win an election. If it gets down to that point and thats where hes rapidly heading at his 35 or whatever it is of the electorate thats going to follow him anywhere, even on these terribly fraught issues of race and covid where hes on the wrong side on both issues. If he gets down there, then he takes the rest of the party with him. Its amazing to me that these republican senators who are in danger and the Majority Leader Mitch Mcconnell whose majority is certainly in danger continue to stick with him blindly. They must see by now that this is a road they dont want to be on. This is a road that does not end well for them. They stick with him. Theyre afraid of him. Maybe they all go down together. Wouldnt that be something . Ashley parker heres some of those republicans who marched in lock step with donald trump every day from the access hollywood tape, through all the crises, not one has broken with trump or suggested they would vote for joe biden. Here they are today at this hour. I mean, we havent beat it. Every thing people are doing, they have to wear masks. Are you social distancing . Hope everybody takes it seriously. Everyone should just wear a damn mask like i am right now. Its a virus. Its a respiratory virus that spreads from person to person. The more people you come in contact with, the likely you are to be infected. I hope everybody does the best they can to protect themselves. Weve been told how to do it. Just do it. These are republican senators from florida now having to undo damage that trump and mike pence have done by not modelling the most basic kind of measures to bend a curve which is in everybodys interest. You want to reopen your economy . Bend the curve. You want to prevent deaths . Bend the curve. Whatever your motive, it winds its way through social distancing and mask wearing. Why did they come to it today, ashley . Theres an actual reality of this virus. Its the numbers you talked about before. The more than 120,000 americans dead. The spikes in the cases we are seeing nationwide, especially in the south and the west, states that started to reopen, some perhaps too quickly. There are the infections on the president s own team of the event staffers who went to his tulsa rally. No matter how skilled the politician, no matter all caps and loud his tweets, you simply cannot fight a reality which is a deadly pandemic that has not been particularly well handled in this country. When you look at the polling, thats one of the things. You see all this eroding in the president s base. Not just the New York Times polls, but a range of polls. Voters in general dont think the president has risen to the moment on the coronavirus, on the deepseeded racial unrust a unrest and its coming home to roost for the president. Youre seeing republican officials having to grapple with a tangible reality they simply can no longer ignore. Lena wen, its an unbelievable state of being to be an american, to look at the graphs of not just virtual countries, but other countries that have been hit by coronavirus before us, all of their charts look like this. Some of them look like this. Some of them look like this. We look like this. How long will that be the case . Well, how long depends on the actions that we take right now. Right now i am unfortunately optimistic at all given what we have seen in terms of lack of national strategy. By now we actually know based on the experiences of other countries what it takes to contain covid19. We keep talking about it, but its still the same things. Testing, contact tracing, isolation, those tools and social distancing, Wearing Masks to contain and reduce the number of infections to a low enough level. Boosting that testing, tracing and isolation so we can identify each new case and box it in. We know thats what worked in other countries. That could have worked in the u. S. And still could work now. It depends on whether we have the political will in order to get there. We need a national strategy. I cant believe were talking about this still. We still dont have a plan for widespread testing. We need clear direct messaging. We also need bold, aggressive action that weve seen from state officials and local officials. We need this from the federal government and a lot of these states where were seeing coronavirus surging and icus being filled to capacity. Let me read you a quote from the head of the cdc. Robert redfield from the Washington Post estimated thursday for every confirmed coronavirus case there are possibly ten more that are undiagnosed. 92 to 95 of the u. S. Population is still susceptible to the virus and young people are driving the recent surge in cases in parts of the south and west. What should we be doing dr. Wen if you were advising policy makers and they were receptive to advice . We need to be preparing for the surge right now. Were seeing the surge in multiple states. Weve hit record numbers of hospitalizations over and over. Yesterday seven states hit those numbers. We need to make sure we dont run out of masks and ventilators and Health Care Workers and space. This is what we were talking about in new york back in march. We should have been preparing for that all across the country. We need to look at whether we need to pause reopening or reapply some restrictions we removed. At the end of the day we dont have a vaccine. Its that social distancing and keeping people apart thats going to allow us to rein in this virus. We need for everyone, including young people, to know theyre not immune and even if they dont get very sick, they could be the transmission. Everyone needs to heed these precautions like Wearing Masks, staying outdoors and using an abundance of caution. Eugene, i want to show you what ashley describes as this failure to rise and how its being weaponized by the lincoln project. Lets watch the ad. We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, as they slipped the bonds of earth to touch the face of god. Those who are lost now, their legacy must be our lives. We can hear you and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon. Amazing grace i am dispatching thousands and thousands of heavilyarmed soldiers. We dominate the streets. I wont traffic in fear and division. I wont fan the flames of hate. Its time to pick up our heads and remember who we are. This is the United States of america. Eugene, its a remarkable road map if joe biden chooses to follow it. Its from a group of republicans. Take it for what it is. Basically attacking donald trump with his own smallness. I hope in say february of next year i get to see President Joe Biden present the president ial medal of freedom to the members of the lincoln project. They are doing these incredible ads that do just what great political ads are supposed to do. They come at you, not only at your intellect, but at your heart and at your gut. They use emotion and image in a powerful way. I wont be a broken record. The Democratic Party needed to learn for years from their republican counter parts how its done. I think theyre getting a lesson in real time. Theyre really effective ads. They have the bonus of so getting under President Trumps skin. I just think its i think its great patriotic work theyre doing. Nothing that theyre saying is anything but gods gospel truth. Its absolutely the truth. The truth we have to hope will set us free. Someone else telling the truth is john bolton. Were going to be speaking to him next. I thank you all. Dr. Lena wen, Ashley Parker and eugene. Our next guest says the president of the United States is not fitting of the office he holds. His name is not adam shift or joe biden. Its john bolton. Ill talk to him about Donald Trumps threat to jail him from what hes written, next. At hes. Because when caught early, its more treatable. Im cologuard. Im noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool to find 92 of colon cancers even in early stages. Tell me more. Its for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your prescriber if cologuard is right for you. Im on it. Thats a step in the right direction. Wayfair has way more ways to renovate your home, from inspiration to installation. Like way more vanities perfect for you. Nice. Way more unique fixtures and tiles. Pairing. Nice. Way more top brands in sinks and faucets. Way more ways to rule your renovation. Nice on any budget, with free shipping. Wayfair. Way more than furniture. A specific instruction was that i had to go to the lawyers to john eisenberg, i was senior counsel for the National Security council and say i am not of whatever drug deal mulvaney and sondland are cooking up. Which so irritated john bolton that he ended the meeting. He directed dr. Hill to brief the lawyers. Did you tell ambassador bolton about the conversation . I reached out to him. What was his response . Tell the lawyers. John boltons absence from the impeachment proceedings and to donald trump sparked a fire storm and called into question boltons motives for skipping them. His alarm over what he witnessed as National Security adviser found its way into the record anyway from the patriotism from boltons aides. Tell the lawyers was a refrain for bolton. He too says that he told the lawyers in the white house and at the Justice Department when he grew disturbed by what he saw and worried the illegality or corruption was under way in some of the rooms it happened, rooms he places himself in in his new book. Boltons memoire the room where it happened almost didnt get p publish published. He says he reported to attorney general barr his concern that President Trump was offering favors to foreign leaders for favors. Bolton writes he witnessed firsthand the quid pro quo with ukraine and that the july 25th phone call between trump and ukraines president was deserving of the fall out. He writes, whether impeachable, criminal or otherwise. Joining us now former white house National Security advise and author of the room where it happened ambassador john bolton. How you doing . Doing fine. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. I want to ask you what that phone call was like to attorney general barr . Well, actually i think i had a couple conversations with the attorney general on this subject of ukraine and some of the other things i talk about in the book. I briefed white House Counsel Pat Cipollone as well. In both cases they were unhappy with what they were hearing about the president s conduct. They listened very carefully was my recollection. They didnt necessarily respond to it. I didnt expect they would. As good lawyers, it was their responsibility to see what was really up. That was my obligation in the white house and, as youve just shown, i tried to be consistent with the staff of the National Security council so they were alert to these issues as well as they were on their own. I guess i wonder what you thought would happen. Barr put his finger on the scale and distorted muellers finding. Barr has been called by someone i think who probably served in a couple of republican administrations as the most corrupt person to ever lead the Justice Department. Was it your hope or intention that the possible criminality would be investigated or did you just want it off your plate like a hot potato . Ive known bill barr for well over 30 years. Hes a man of integrity. I believed he would do his job. I would say the same about Pat Cipollone. I dont automatically assume that everyone i come in contact with is corrupt. One of the criticisms i get, ive gotten my fair share of criticism, is i was trying to do too many other peoples jobs on at the white house. I passed the information on to the people i should have passed it on to and i dont have any second thoughts about this. Let me show you this. I am here because i believe that william barr poses the greatest thats true in my lifetime to public law, thats because he doesnt believe that no person is above the law. Since taking office he has worked to advance his life long conviction that the president should hold autocratic powers. That includes immunity from checks and balances and giving special treatment to himself and his friends. John, youre on the record with what you think of the attorney general. Let me ask you, is donald trump corrupt . Well, let me deal with don a ayers. Ive known him for a long time. Hes a man of integrity as well. What i think donald trump focuses on is donald trump. A lot of people think hes a conservative republican and this is a race in november between a conservative republican and a liberal democrat. I know joe biden well too. Ive crossed swords with him in the Foreign Affairs field and in the judiciary field. Hes a liberal democrat. Donald trump is not a conservative republican. What i tried to how in the book is he doesnt operate on the basis of philosophy. He doesnt operate on the strategy or policy. He operates on whats good for donald trump. I understand every president takes politics into account in almost all their decisions. No surprises there. The difference there is not a matter of small degree. Its a qualitative difference in the way donald trump approaches the job. Thats what you saw reflected in the ukraine experience. I guess im trying to get at my viewers know this by now. I covered your absence from the impeachment proceedings with this perhaps fantasy that you would show up and tell your story and corroborate the accounts of fiona hill who i know you hold in high regard. I understand the lawsuit. Help me understand how you feel about not telling your story at a time when it might have changed the horse. We might have been had mike pence in charge of the countrys coronavirus response. As i write in the book the democrat leadership in the house created impeachment malpractice. We know how to conduct an impeachment process that leads to a result, that is the removal of the president from office. If your job is to rally the base or do virtual signaling to make you feel good, theres a way to do that. The democrats by their own choice didnt follow the example of sam ervin and howard baker. They didnt try to Work Together with the republicans. As a consequence they drove the republicans into their corner and you basically got a partisan process. Whats frustrating about that to me and i think should be to americans is that the end result is not what nancy pelosi said that the impeachment would deter trump from the conduct that they objected to, theres impeachment and then theres the senate trial and trump was acquitted in the senate. He was not deterred. He was empowered by a badly flawed impeachment process. I dont march to Nancy Pelosis drum. I decided that i would make myself available to the senate. By that point they had been persuaded by the white house legal argument that no matter what any other witness said, even if every bad motive could be attributed to trump on ukraine, his conduct didnt rise to the level of an impeachable offense. That meant anything anybody would have said, myself included, would have been swept aside. I thought the better part was to put it before the ultimate judge, the American People. Thats what ive tried to do. If they look at whats in the book, theyll make up their own mind. If we cant trust their judgment, the country is in deep trouble. So you dont march to Nancy Pelosis drum. You clearly no longer march to Donald Trumps drum. The first page of your book is a stinging review of your predecessors who ran the National Security council before you got there. Do you understand the criticism you hold yourself above . After 9 11 the motto that we helped spread was if you see something say something. Im having a hard time you saw so much. Did you say anything to anyone other than the couple calls to bill barr . And to Pat Cipollone. I told the people who who defended donald trump in impeachment. I did what i thought was the right thing to do. When i served as long as i could in the administration, i resigned. Look, im not into virtue signaling. What i tried to do in ukraine and what a number of other people did was get the Security Assistance delivered to the ukraine. We were faced with a circumstance that we couldnt judge. We had Rudy Giuliani and a shadow Foreign Policy operation in ukraine working to try to advance the president s reelection. We certainly at least i didnt know all the facts. What i did know is it was important and in the best interest of the United States to get the Security Assistance delivered. Thats what we worked on. Although i was gone by the time it happened, it got delivered. Thats what we were focussed on. Tell me about the room where donald trump asked you to be involved in getting rudy in the middle of u. S. ukrainian relations. Its one of the more riveting scenes. Well, rudy wanted to go to ukraine and meet with the newly elected president zelensky, if thats the incident youre referring to. I got called down to the oval office. It was very clear that there was a vast spaghetti bowl of conspiracy theories out there about what had happened in the 2016 election, notions about how the Ukrainian Government had been involved in, as the president said, tried to take him down. Ill leave the obscenities out of it. What the president was focussed on was not corruption in ukraine. He was focussed on getting revenge against, not just joe biden, but Hillary Clinton as well. The president said, look, you call zelensky and tell him he should meet with rudy. I went back to my office and looked at the clock. Theres a substantial time difference between washington and ukraine. I concluded it was not possible to have that call take place that day. Certain other circumstances occurred where it became clear to everybody that rudy couldnt go. Fortunately i never did call president zelensky to tell him to meet Rudy Giuliani. When i finally went to kiev myself, i pulled aside zelenskys new prosecutor general and said youll hear a lot of things about corruption. Talk to the u. S. Justice department. Talk to bill barr. Dont talk to Rudy Giuliani. I hoped that message would put things back in the regular course between the two countries and let it go at that. John, Rudy Giuliani is under investigation for some of his foreign dealings, including in this part of the world, by sdny. You write in your book what sounds like a quote or paraphrasing. It sounds like donald trump talking about how he doesnt have his guys in yet at sdny. Did you have any sense of what Rudy Giuliani was under investigation for and whether it reached as high up to the president . Were you ever asked to answer questions by anyone at sdny about the criminal investigation into rudy . No. I have had no contact with them at all. Rudy was involved with an aspect of the litigation regarding hawk bank which is a major turkish bank that was accused of violating american sanctions with iran and committing financial fraud by failing to disclose that in reporting obligations. If this was an american bank, we should have toasted them. The Southern District was looking into it. I didnt hear from them about that. I heard from president erdogan in his conversations with President Trump he wanted the prosecution stopped. They wanted a settlement agreement. This can happen with an american president. You get those requests. The president has the respon responsibility of balancing the obligations. The reaction of President Trump was to basically try and do a favor for his friend erdogan. In a conversation he said sort of what you said. Look, these people in new york are obama. When i get my people in, well fix it. It was appalling. How that played out later, obviously it was after i left the government. The government did bring another prosecution against hawk bank. Where that stands now, whether its part of any further deliberations, i dont know. I want to ask you more about the president s dealings with erdogan and the military operation he green lit and his views about the kurds. You write about all that. Please stay with us. When we come back, well ask you to describe the two hours donald trump spent alone with putin in helsinki before he threw the u. S. Intelligence community under the bus. Well also ask john why he thinks trump is so subservient to putin. Stay with us. American adversaries can see right through the president of the United States. Thats one of the most consistent and alarming take aways from the book out by john bolton who writes of trumps x fixation with dictatodictators. Putins personal relationships didnt hurt him. One of the most harrowing parts of the book is helsinki. Trump insisting on this one on one meeting, insisting no notes be taken and spending two hours alone with him. Take us through that part of what you write. It was a very long two hours. I can tell you that. I spent it in conversation with john kelly and mike pompeo. We wondered what was going on. At the end of it, having heard from what the president himself said, what we heard from our interpreter in the room and what was discussed at the subsequent working lunch between the two leaders that a number of us attended, i dont think that anything happened in that one on one meeting that compromised american National Security. The bulk of it was about syria. You dont think . You were the National Security adviser. You dont think anything happen . He came out and through the entire Intelligence Community under the bus. You dont think anything endangered National Security . Thats a different story. Tell us both. I have no reason to believe the interpreter who has pretty good memory, especially because they werent allowed to take notes, said it basically was about syria. So from that perspective, that was the subject that putin wanted to talk about. I think its look, its not unusual for World Leaders to have one on ones. There are benefits to that, but it would be better if we had more of a sense of what the president s objectives were. Im not sure he had objectives going into the conversation. He did say president putin said this himself, that the president first raised the question of russian interference in American Elections. At least he got that on the table. But barely because you prepared a onepage sheet for him so he wouldnt freelance and he was reluctant to read it, right . Hes reluctant to do most things like that. I would like to try and make a point here that this book is very critical of President Trump. You have been critical of President Trump. Others have. Its important to make the criticisms based on fact and not on speculation of how bad it might be. The speculation may turn out to be accurate. I dont think it advances the ball of convincing the American People that we have to overstate the criticism. Theres plenty to go around. The facts as you describe them in your book are that you get on the plane from hell kls and you had to plead with dan coats not to resign. Have you ever seen an american president with so much benefit of the doubt given to a foreign leader, especially the russian president , without explanation . No. It was a just a terrible, appalling comment by the president to equate an assertion of a russian leader with what his own Intelligence Community was telling him. For what its worth he came down the next day to the oval office saying i misspoke, i left out a word. Trump nknew what a disaster it was. Whether he meant what he said in helsinki and made up the conversation later about dropping the word, i dont know. What he said in helsinki was consistent with attitudes he displayed in other conversations about the russians and what they did in the election. You also describe putins views of trump, that putin is obviously, for lack of a better word, savvy and sees and understands that he can play trump like a fiddle. What do you think putin has planned for the American Election in 2020 . Well, i think people need to appreciate putin is a former kgb agent. He was a man born with a poker face. In the meetings that he had with trump i thought i could see behind those eyes a man who was just having a great time because he didnt consider he was facing an equal on the other side of the table. I believe the russians, the chinese, perhaps the aariranian and the north koreans, are trying to plant discourse in our elections. This is a serious problem. I think that inside the Trump Administration a number of steps were taken. I talk about some of them in the book to prepare us better, not to just defend against assaults on the constitution which is what i think foreign interference is, but to have the capability to help them pay a price, something that will lead them to conclude its too costly for them to interfere in our elections. Its important to have that discussion because the threat evolves. John, i want to ask you what you think motivated Donald Trumps affinity for everything erdogan wanted and his green lighting of erdogans military operations, i think this was the genesis of mattis resignation, the death and slaughter of our great allies, the kurds. Trump has commented how much he enjoys talking to authoritarian leaders and how much difficult he has talking to americas allies. Im not a shrink. I cant give you a good reason for that. The tendency, the attitude that it demonstrated put our security interests in jeopardy and in the case of syria erdogan said he wanted the United States to pull out, to get out of Northern Syria so the turks could come in to protect themselves against the kurds. This space that erdogan wanted to put troops into was the same space turkey invaded in 1957. I thought it was a mistake to pull out. The president agreed to it. He then changed his mind because he realized at some point the dangers that he was creating. I think, not because of my arguments or mattis arguments or pompeos arguments, i think he was convinced on his christmas night trip to iraq where some of the officers explained why we were in northeast syria, what we could do there and why we should remain. Do you think thats what changed his mind, not the devastating press he got . You think donald trump ever changed his mind because he became informed of the good or bad policy choice or do you think he responds to press coverage . He was getting killed in the press. Well, he was, but i think erdogan had real persuasive power visavis trump. While i certainly believe and written that Donald Trumps focus is on the politics of reelection, his Situational Awareness is not perfect and theres some places, like the rest of us, he can make mistakes. Then he made the mistake again and wanted to get out of syria and withdrew further than we should have, although were not gone entirely yet. You mention pompeo a couple times. Hes attacked you more brutally than any of your other colleagues. Having been a republican once, i know the two of you really ideologically are not far apart on issues. What so threatens him about what hes written . Is it because you wrote that he said trump is full of shit . Its no surprise that mike is repeating the president s lines. Hes got higher aspirations politically. Good for him. I think hes seen one way to advance those aspirations to be tied very closely to donald trump. I think its reflected in his behavior. All i can say is i feel sorry for him. Are you scared . I mean i know a judge ruled you could Face Criminal Charges for writing or including what could be, i guess, considered classified. I know its not your first rod o rodeo. Youve written other books. Theyre not messing around. They pursued jim comey and andy mccabe, theyve pursued other people who have told the truth about donald trump around russia and Foreign Policy. I was concerned and am concerned about all these things. There were times when writing the book i thought to myself this is not going to be worth the grief ill have to go through. There are a lot of people in town that dont want to go through a twominute hate by donald trump on his twitter feed. I have been around classified information a lot. The last thing i would ever do is harm the United States by releasing classified information that a foreign power could take advantage of. I wrote the manuscript originally as carefully as i could to keep out anything that was classified. By the way, anything that was left out that was classified would not have shown donald trump in a better light. I can assure you of that. Then although i dont think i was required to do it, i submitted the book for through months. It was not it was not a free pass, i can assure you of that too. At the end of it, the responsible career official who with her staff did the review said and the government admitted in its own papers she concluded there was no classified information in it. What happened then what happened then was that trump several months before had said im not going to let this book come out before the election. He took the almost unprecedented step of trying to get a temporary restraining order and a preliminary injunction against the book. The judge denied that. Today his family is suing his niece, trying to stop the publication of another book. Theres a pattern here. Look, i dont believe theres any classified information in the book, and well go through the process and i think well prove that. John, people who have told the truth about their time with donald trump end up on an island. I know you have a pac and a super pac. Are you going to continue to give money to republicans or do you view them as having marched in lockstep with a president who in your view is unfit . No, thats not my view. Im not going to become a democrat. Im not going to vote for joe biden. When i get i didnt say anything about the democrats or joe biden. I asked you about these i didnt say anything about you becoming a democrat. I know you, i know youre not going to become a democrat. Im just asking you about whether you feel politically isolated. You indict Donald Trumps fitness, first and foremost. That is the through line. You also detail political or personal corruption. Its left a little unclear to the reader whether you believe its personal or merely political. But the entire Senate Republican caucus has marched in lockstep with him. And other than a couple of peeps here and there, largely around the incidents weve talked about, helsinki and syria, are they worthy of keeping in place . I was working my way toward an answer for your question. The. Sorry. The answer is i think its very important thats all right. I think its very important for the Republican Party to keep a majority in the senate. You know the old saying in american politics, ill be for you or against you whichever helps you more. Im still thinking about what my plans would be for the fall. I dont have i dont have them well formulated at this point, but i hope to fairly soon because i think whether trump wins or loses, its important to have a republican majority there. If biden wins, thats the last check that we have against the leftwing pressure inside the Democratic Party. The effect of trump on the american body politic has been extremely damaging in a number of respects. One of which is everything is torqued around donald trump. Youre either loyal to him or not loyal to him. I think thats a mistake. The first politician i really had a job working for was spiro agnew. I was a white house summer intern in 1972 for spiro agnew. I thought he was a great guy. He was nice, he was pleasant, he was pretty conservative and then i found out later he was corrupt. The lesson that taught me is believe in your philosophy, dont believe in any one individual. And that, i think, is what weve got to talk about in the Republican Party after the election on november the 3rd. Whether trump wins or loses, that conversation needs to be had. Do you regret going in i saw you, i think, on Stephen Colbert talk about how you thought maybe youd be different and you are really harsh on the people that came before you. Did you think that youd be different . Did you think that the Trump White House would be different than what you encountered . Well, i dont think im harsh on all of them. Im harsh on some who had a higher opinion of themselves than perhaps they should have. But i do think lets take jim mattis, who youve noted our policy disagreements. I dont have anything but respect for mattis patriotism and his integrity. I think he didnt advance his own interests actually as well as he could have. He didnt advance his own arguments as well as he could have. All of us who went in who thought we could make a contribution, it was a personal decision, it was a hard, personal decision to go in and hard to come out. So i dont mean to criticize anybody on that ground and im fully prepared to say and i hope i put forward in the book some of the mistakes i made. Maybe i made more than my share. But i dont secondguess going in. Its an honor to serve the country. We all are mortal. Youve got to do the best you can. With this president it just proved it just proved impossible to do better. I asked jeb bush this question four years ago and ill ask you in two sentences. If you wake up the morning after the election this year and donald trump has won, you will feel what . Ive lost the sound here. Can you hear me, john . Can you hear us . No sound. We lost ambassador bolton. Well, if we get an answer to that question, well share it to you. We certainly thank ambassador bolton for spending some time with us. Almost 600 pages of life inside the trump west wing. Whatever you think of how impeachment went down or republicans in general, the room where it happened is a riveting tale from the inside. That does it for our hour. Our coverage continues with chuck todd after a quick break. K when you shop with wayfair, you spend less and get way more. So you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams. Spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair today. Hit it, charlie matthew, says to bring it back. The fivedollar footlong. Better choice for matthew. Its back sandwich emoji. Fivedollar footlongs are back when you buy two. For a limited time. There are people searching headed in your direction. So, since people are still looking for what you do, godaddy is making it possible for you to create a website for free. Start now at godaddy. Com uptick in kind of clusters of patients that were out at bars and clubs over the past two or three weeks have been coming in in droves testing positive, unfortunately. Were trying to prepare for this surge, and were trying to find ways to be proactive. Were just learning so much about it as we go. In some ways its almost Like Fighting a ghost because we just dont know what youre up against. We need to educate one another. We have confidence in our providers and health care in general and stick together. Im afraid that were going to get to a point where all of a sudden everybody realizes this is bad but a lot of the damage is done. This is not going to go away quickly, and i know people are exhausted and have kind of gotten tired about hearing news about this, but this is what we get to deal with here for the next weeks to months. Once again, we start the show with voices from medical workers on the front lines of this pandemic. As you can see geographically, that front line is in americas sun belt. Welcome to thursday, it is meet the press daily. Im chuck todd on a day of bleak and ominous coronavirus headlines in the United States. As