Downplayed. He suggested he was surprised but felt that he was fine. Yes, indeed he acknowledged that he and the Vice President would now, at least for the time being, be tested every day for the coronavirus. Lets get to that for a moment here. As much as this white house is trying to project this idea of a return to normalcy, they can do so from the security of knowing that everyone in that bubble is being regularly tested. Thats how theyre able to do it. Thats why we see the president in the oval office not six feet away from staff persons. We saw at the mask factory in arizona when the president refused to wear one in front of the cameras. No one else on his staff did either because they all knew they had tested negative. But americans cant have that same confidence because theyre not able to get those tests. Great point. Thats the issue. As much as the white house is leaning towards trying to push states to reopen, to try to get businesses to open their doors again and get workers and consumers to go back, theres a lack of confidence from americans, unable to know that they can get tested so therefore they can be safe. Jonathan, thats such a great point. Thank you. Thank you both for being with us as we continue to figure out anchoring by wire. When we come back after our next break, we are witnessing the economic catastrophe that this coronavirus is causing. Wi the new job numbers are out. They are nothing like we have seen before. Back after this. Nothing like w seen before. Back after this. Its tough to quit smoking cold turkey. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. 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Once you activate, youll only have to pay for the data you need saving you up to 400 a year. There are no term contracts, no activation fees, and no credit check on the first two lines. Get a 50 prepaid card when you switch. Its the most reliable wireless network. And it could save you hundreds. Xfinity mobile. This morning, new unemployment numbers give us a clearer picture of the catastrophe toll this coronavirus pandemic has taken on our economy. Nearly 3. 2 million more American Workers filed for unemployment just over the period last week, putting the total over the past seven weeks now at a staggering 33 Million People now out of work that we know of. In some states Officials Say the Unemployment Rate now tops 25 . The job losses have wiped out all of the gains the economy saw since the recovery that followed the 08 recession, and these figures come just a day ahead of what will surely be a historymaking jobs report for the month of april. For more on all of it, we are joined by steven ratner, a longtime veteran in the world of finance who was the lead adviser to president obamas task force on the Auto Industry in 09 and is an economic analyst for morning joe of course on this very network. Steven, i have so many questions for you, i guess ill bundle them together and toss them at you. Number one, how much worse does it get . Number two, how bad does it get concerning i know its apples to oranges the Great Depression numbers that this country finally lived through, and number three, what do you do about it . If you were appointed special master for this as you were with the Auto Industry, what would you do . Well, i dont know how much time you have for all that, brian, but ill do my best. I think the important thing for today is this is obviously goes to be a historic number tomorrow. The new claims for Unemployment Insurance that we got this morning was a little bit down from previous weeks. Thats to be expected as more people have already filed. There are roughly 20 Million People who are still getting Unemployment Insurance. We did have yesterday a report from abp which produces many of the payroll checks that we all receive that gave us some granularity around these numbers and i have a few charts to run through for you if youd like. Basically the picture is that there are probably 20 Million People who are now still unemployed, who lost their jobs during this pandemic, and all of that points to an Unemployment Rate tomorrow that is going to be well in the double digits. Whats interesting about the adp numbers and if you want to show that first chart, there we go, you can see that it has hit different parts of the economy very disproportionately. If you work in leisure, recreational travel, any of those sectors, over 50 of the people who work in those sectors have been laid off or lost their jobs. In construction, its 30 33 . If you look at the bottom of this chart, youll see those who work in finance or in business and professional services, lawyers, accountants, architects, doctors, the job losses are much, much smaller. What this tells us is that the people who are losing their jobs are disproportionately people of lower income. Theyre the people who collect your tickets at the movie theaters, the people who check your boarding pass at the airport and things like that. The chart youre looking at now shows another interesting feature of this which is the fact that it is also disproportionately hurt Small Business. If you look at the top, about 21. 5 of people who work in Small Businesses have lost their jobs. If you look at the bottom, only, and i put only in quotes, about 13 of people have lost their jobs. All of that then for tomorrow points to an Unemployment Rate that as you said will be of historic proportions. If you look at this last chart, you can see theres an unusual range of uncertainty at the moment because no one has ever seen anything quite like it, but essentially the estimates point to Something Like 14, 15, 16 unemployment. Put that in context for you, it did get as high as 25 during the Great Depression. Theres your 16 . But during the Global Financial crisis and the recession that followed, it really never got above 10 . So you can see that this would be something of historic proportion and it will happen and by the way, this will not be the worst month of unemployment we will see. You will continue to see those numbers go up as more and more people file for their Unemployment Insurance. So, steven, tell me where the spending is going to come from in the third quarter, and also of course its intertwined with public health. Whos going to want to hand over a movie ticket to be torn in half . Who cant wait to get out on to americas frontline responders, thank you. Tide cleaners is offering Free Laundry Services to the family of frontline responders. Visit hope. Tidecleaners. Com to learn more. Ibut that doesnt mean ayoure in this alone. Were automatically refunding our customers a portion of their personal auto premiums. Were also offering flexible Payment Options for those whove been financially affected by the crisis. We look forward to returning to something that feels a little closer to life as we knew it, but until then you can see how were here to help at libertymutual. Com covid19. [ piano playing ] throughout his presidency, donald trump has had an obsession with big numbers, from the size of his inauguration crowd to his ratings on television. Now hes taking aim at another much more serious number, nothing to laugh about. The coronavirus death toll. Its up to more than 75,000 in this country, well on its way to the 100,000 marker trump put down as what he says would represent a, quote, very good job. Now axios is reporting that trump has been suggesting to advisers that the death toll seems inflated because of the way its calculated and thats a Senior Administration official and that a Senior Administration official begins the president to begin questioning publicly the coronavirus death toll which experts have repeatedly said is actually undercountdoed. Joining us now on this stunning piece of reporting, Axios National political reporter jonathan swan. This sounds trumpian but im having a hard time processing this. In light of all the reporting youre seeing, nursing home deaths that represent people that werent testing or deaths that werent counted because we didnt even know covid was here when some of them occurred, talk about how theyve reached a diametrically opposing view there at the white house. I cant speak to that but obviously we can make assumptions about motive but we havent seen this creep into the public rhetoric yet but i expect that it might. So theyve seized upon two things. The first is that the methodology for counting deaths changed in mid april to include presumptive deaths. There was a very good reason for that. We didnt have adequate testing. We were seeing thousands and thousands of cases around the country of excess death, very clearly from covid19, and so the cdc changed the way it counted it to include presumptive. Now, not all states are including that but President Trump privately has been complaining about that and hes mentioned privately the fact that new york, for example, added 3,000 presumptive covid cases. There are a number of his senior aides who share this view and two Senior Administration officials brought this up to me. This has been the subject of discussion in some of the meetings happening in the white house, is medicare has been paying a 20 bonus to hospitals for coronavirus patients. This is to help make up some of the lost revenue for noncoronavirus patients. Well, two separate Senior Administration officials suggested to me that this was creating an incentive for them to misdiagnose people as being infected by coronavirus. To be clear, that would be fraud. No one in the administration has actually publicly alleged that right now and we have no evidence of that happening, but thats what is being discussed in the administration right now. Jonathan, does anyone have it in their portfolio to caution the president against tossing around the number of people who have lost their lives as just another statistic or number. He talked in the interview with david muir, the numbers are pretty good, our numbers are great. There are a number of grandmas and grandpas and moms and dads who have died. Whether its in peoples portfolio or not its a futile request because the fact is that trump views most things through numbers and when he sees this death toll every day as the ticker on every television screen, on every website, its this rolling indictment of his presidency and his leadership. So these numbers cant be escaped, but secondly, it shouldnt be surprising that he is viewing this situation through those numbers. Jonathan, you always look around the corner even when we dont like what we see. Thank you very much for spending some time with us and bringing us your later reporting. Amazing. Brian williams, my friend, i understand youre leaving us to prepare for your subsequent shifts here. What a busy day. Im going to watch you. Thank you for having me. No shortage of news. There is not. Thank you, my friend. Coming up, the breaking story that we started with, the Barr Justice Department dropping charges against Donald Trumps former National Security adviser mike flynn. Deadline white house next. Er mike flynn deadline white house next thats why were still offering fast, free two day shipping on thousands of items. Even the big stuff. And doing everything it takes to ensure your safety. So you can make your home. Everything you need it to be. Wayfair. Way more than furniture. Brushing only reaches 25 of your mouth. Listerine® cleans virtually 100 . Helping to prevent gum disease and bad breath. Never settle for 25 . Always go for 100. Bring out the bold™ many of lifes moments in thare being put on hold. Are staying at home, at carvana, we understand that, for some, getting a car just cant wait. To help, were giving our customers up to 90 days to make their first payment. Shop online from the comfort of your couch, and get your car with touchless delivery to keep you safe. And for even Greater Peace of mind, all carvana cars come with a sevenday return policy. So, if you need to keep moving, were here for you. At carvana the safer way to buy a car. That family doesnt have to take out of their house. It relieves stress off of me to let me know im doing something good for the community, not just papa johns. Im doing something good for the community, around here, nobody ever does it. I didnt do it. So when i heard they added ultra oxi to the cleaning power of tide, it was just what we needed. Dad . I didnt do it. 1 stain and odor fighter, 1 trusted. Its got to be tide. Hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in the east on an extraordinary day of breaking news. The Justice Department telling nbc it is dropping its case against michael flynn, Donald Trumps first National Security adviser, who had previously pleaded guilty to lying to fbi agents about his communications with russians and has affirmed that guilty plea under oath as recently as last year, a Stunning Development coming days after trump revives his attacks on the Flynn Investigation on twitter and less than three months after a. G. Barr took the highly unusual step of ordering a review of the case. The New York Times has this reporting, quote, in a possible sign of disagreement with the Justice Department decision, brandon van grack, the Department Lawyer who led the prosecution of mr. Flynn, abruptly withdraw from the case on thursday. Mr. Flynns lawyers have repeatedly attacked mr. Van grack by name citing his, quote, incredible malfeasance. Michael flynns case resulted from an investigation by officials who believed that flynn posed a threat to u. S. National security, that he could be blackmailed by russians, and that it was trumps pressure on then fbi director jim comey to, quote, see to it to let it go, to let the Flynn Investigation go that ultimately put in motion the mueller probe. Just in the last hour trump in the oval office celebrated the news that his a. G. Has done just that, seen to it to let flynn go. I hope a lot of people are going to pay a big price because theyre dishonest, crooked people. Theyre scum and i say it a lot. Theyre scum. Theyre human scum. This should never have happened in this country. A duly elected president , and they went after him by going after fine people, and those fine people said no, im not going to lie. I cant lie. Hes not the only one. There are many of them. They all said i cant lie. They could have said Something Like, oh, make up a lie, trump loves somebody or something or some country, and they said, no, you wouldnt have any problem. Thats what they were trying to do and its a disgrace. The obama administration, Justice Department was a disgrace, and they got caught. They got caught, very dishonest people. But much more, its treason. Its treason. So im very happy for general flynn. He was a great warrior and he still is a great warrior. In my book hes an even greater warrior. Fine people, where have we heard that before . And we wouldnt play those attacks that donald trump Just Launched on the good men and women of the fbi, people who work for him, without a reality check, a fact check. Heres one from House Intel Committee chairman adam chiffon twitter. Flynn pled guilt about his lies. His lies do not now become true. This dismissal doesnt exonerate him but it does bill barr. From the New York Times chief White House Correspondent peter baker, former chief of staff for the cia and the department of defense, jeremy bash, plus former chief spokesman for the Justice Department, matt miller. Peter baker, its your newspapers account of this that we first learned about the career prosecutor on this case removing himself from the flynn prosecution, but its also been pointed out to me by a former Justice Department official who served in the trump era doj that what judge sullivan will do is not a foregone conclusion. Judge sullivan, i think a bush appoint appointee, has had stewardship of this case and has affirmed that mike flynn Still Believes hes guilty of lying to the fbi as recently as the end of last year. Thats right, exactly. Im not a lawyer but as i understand it the Justice Department can only move this case. Its up to the judge to decide if it has a good reason for doing so. It does not say that mike flynn told the truth. Mike flynn did by his own admission lie. What has changed is the Justice Department under bill barr is saying he should never have been asked the question to which he lied, that there was no basis for asking him. The original investigation was flawed in that sense. But youre right about the career prosecutor stepping aside. That reminds us of what happens of course with the roger stone case a few months ago when several career prosecutors stepped aside because of what they thought was that case on behalf of the president s friend. We havent heard why this career prosecutor stepped aside. Hes been attacked by the team, accused of malfeasance. We have not heard that at this point but were looking forward to that. Matt miller, ive heard from three former fbi officials. One of them writes, the key weasel move today is to say the fbi predicated flynns interview on the calls of kislyak. No, it was about the lies to the Vice President about the calls with kislyak that made us want to interview him. At the end of the day this was about lies told to an american official, the second most powerful person in the executive branch, the Vice President of the United States, about contacts with russia. We still dont have the answer as to who told mike flynn to lie to mike pence. No, we still dont know that and that is exactly the right point, the point that the former fbi official is making. There are two, i think, Serious Problems with the action the department of justice took today. One is a miscarriage of justice. Mike flynn absolutely lied to the fbi if you look at the facts of the case and hes admitted to it twice, once in open court. And two, mike flynn is getting treatment that wouldnt be available to any other person in the country, any other defendant. When you read through the department filing, it really is completely misleading. The argument theyre trying to make is that mike flynns lies werent material. When you talk to an fbi agent, they start the interview and say what did you have for breakfast this morning and you say you had eggs and cereal, thats not a material lie. Its material if you lie about something thats under investigation and the argument that they try to make in this filing is that lying about a conversation with the Russian Ambassador is not material to an underlying investigation into whether you are a russian agent which is the investigation that they still had open into mike flynn. It is i think breathtaking dishonesty from the Justice Department and as with the roger stone case it is a sign that if you are a friend of the president you will get different treatment from bill barr. You will get better treatment from bill barr than any other american is entitled to and that ought to worry anyone who cares about the rule of law in this country. And jeremy bash, this is from pages 14 and 15 of todays filing. There is no dispute about what was said theres no disputing that he lied and mike flynn was described to me by former prosecutors to have confessed to the lie almost immediately once confronted with it. Mike flynn was not quickly rushed out of the white house. I think there were 17 days where he stayed there but donald trump remained obsessed with what would come of an investigation into mike flynn, that now famous closed door oneonone meeting with jim comey where donald trump asked him to see to it to let flynn go. It took a few years but now he has in his back pocket a little a. G. Who saw to it to let flynn go. What does that say . Mike flynn made his career calling for the political corruption of the criminal Justice System. Remember lock her up . Today weve seen the political corruption of the Justice System that mike flynn has long been calling for. I wish that this network and the New York Times and others would not lead with the Justice Department dropped charges. The Justice Department had nothing to do with this. This is the white house 100 . President trump dropped charges against mike flynn. Mike flynn was lying to mike pence. He was lying to the fbi to cover up for donald trump, for Donald Trumps direction that mike flynn should do a secret deal with the russians to relax sanctions. Notwithstanding the president s comments today at the white house, this is not about the obama administration. Nice try. It was the Trump Administrations own career prosecutors that initially brought charges against mike flynn not one but two guilty pleas from him. He was a convicted felon and now all of a sudden donald trump said if you dont drop the charges im going to pardon him and so prosecutors had no choice but to exit stage right and now mike flynn will have the guilty plea zexonerated from his recor. Peter baker, i had heard around the time that career prosecutors one quit the department and i think others quit the case from the roger stone bill barrs involvement in roger stones sentencing, that pardons were being prepped for roger stone and mike flynn. Why not do you or your Justice Department correspondents have any reporting about why donald trump didnt just pardon mike flynn . Certainly it would have kept the Justice Department intact in a more cohesive way, wouldnt have resulted in more regular nasign from these cases. He was prepared to pardon him as recently as last week according to your reporting, and he was talked out of it by advisers who said let the Justice Department handle it, let the judge handle it, let the process of reviewing this case which was ongoing at that point take care of it rather than intervening in a direct way yourself. Whats interesting of course and everybody knew which way the president wanted to go, had this been another president , another situation and we found a secret memo saying mike flynns a good guy, unfairly prosecuted, that would be a big story. We didnt have to find a secret memo because the president told us. He told us this again and again in public on twitter and in person what he wanted the Justice Department to do. The argument that you hear from his camp is since he said it out loud theres nothing inappropriate about telling the Justice Department what to do, hes simply expressing his opinion under the First Amendment like everybody else. Of course everybody saw it including the people at the Justice Department. Matt miller, it also brings back into focus the other political investigations being steered by bill barr. Bill barr is still running a connecticut u. S. Attorney mr. Durham who is reinvestigating all of this things that have been investigated by i think three or four Inspector General investigations. Theyve been investigated by another former u. S. Attorney who was asked to look at this i think when sessions and Rod Rosenstein ran doj. Bill barr is riding over another political investigation into the origins of the russia investigation as reports simply confirm that russia is likely to be at it again in the next president ial election. Yeah, what hes done here and what hes done in these other investigations is so out of keeping with how the Justice Department typically manages investigations. Basically what hes done, every time an investigation has produced an outcome thats adverse to the president , an outcome to the president doesnt like, barr has found someone else inside the department, gone around shopping for a different prosecutor, a different forum, a different venue, someone else to reexamine the case. Thats what happened here. The department dismissed these cases after barr found the u. S. Attorney in another part of the country to go back and review the work that bob mueller had done in the same way hes asked john durham to review the origins of the investigation. There will be times that the Justice Department does it. Usually when theres a finding of misconduct on behalf of either a judge or Inspector General finds misconduct. These are cases where barr has decided to go back and look because he doesnt like the outcome, even though those were outcomes generated by prosecutors appointed by donald trump himself. Rod rosenstein appointed him to look at these cases and bob mueller brought the case against mike flynn. It goes back to the point i was making. It is a terrifying outcome because what it means is if the supposedly independent Justice Department ever finds ever ends the case with an outcome that the president of the United States doesnt like, if they bring charges against one of the president s cronies or whether they refuse to bring charges against one of the president s political opponents, the attorney general of the United States is going to go look for another prosecutor to come up with a different outcome and hes going to ram that decision through. Thats a terrifying way it is a terrifying threat to the rule of law. Jeremy, something you said this hour, everything you say creates a flashing, glaring siren in my brain but one thing you said was this was the white house but this is also the white house directing bill barr to do something that as odd as it is to point out, Rod Rosenstein, jeff sessions, and that guy that was the fillin, what was his name . Whittaker, refused to do. The Flynn Investigation was working its way through the Legal Process on the watch of three other officials. None of them would do what donald trump asked jim comey to do, see to it to let flynn go, but barr does. What should we be watching as we watch him from this day forward . I agree. In bill barr the president s found his easy mark and barr is sold very easily. Thats probably why he got the job, because he committed to do that when he signed up for this. But moreover, what youve seen is the president increasingly tightening the pressure, insisting that the coverup of flynns conversations with russia and thats what this was, a coverup, flynns conversations with russia that that was fine with trump. To go back to the initial point, weve never yet been told not just what the lies were or the conditions of the lie but why, why did mike flynn feel a need to mislead the department of justice, the federal bureau of investigation. What was he covering up that donald trump told him to do . I think its clear as day that donald trump told mike flynn, tell the russians quietry that were relaxing sanctions as soon as we get into office, and nobody to this day understands why donald trump felt compelled to make that promise to vladimir putin. Jeremy, let me give you the last word on this because i think having served in government you can explain this. Mike flynn had the right to get on the phone with the Russian Ambassador and at least after he was the National Security adviser for a sitting president. He had the right to change u. S. Policy, so the question isnt even about the policy change in direction which was to loosen sanctions. It was about lying about it. The president s talking about maybe bringing flynn back into the government. What risk might he pose . Well again, i think its clear that he lied to the Vice President and he lied to the fbi. Its true, campaigns can talk to foreign governments, transition teams can talk to foreign governments. Its even fine to say privately or publicly, hey, were changing course on American Foreign policy. In fact, trump might argue thats why he was elected to do that. Thats all legitimate and above board, but for some reason trump directed flynn to cover it up and we dont yet know why trump and flynn wanted to cover up this channel to russia. But we do know that bill barr, now part of that operation in todays breaking news, an unbelievable state of affairs. Three of the very best of the best, thank you all for starting us off. When we come back, continued coverage of breaking news, the Justice Department today choosing to drop charges in the case against former trump National Security adviser mike flynn. Senator Kamala Harris joins us next. Plus confirmation this afternoon, one of Donald Trumps personal valets, a member of the military who works at the white house, has tested positive for the coronavirus. An urgent moment for a president who still refuses to wear a mask. And a story of redemption stopped short by the coronavirus. The remarkable story of a man who vowed to make things right, coming up. Tory of a man who vowed to make things right, coming up. [music] [music] especially in times like these, strong Public Schools make a better california for all of us. Has the president or anyone at the white house ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone . Yes or no, please, sir. The president or anybody else . Seems you would remember Something Like that and be able to tell us. Yeah, but im trying to grapple with the word suggest. I mean, there have been discussions of matters out there that they have not asked me to open an investigation but perhaps they suggested . I dont know. I wouldnt say suggest. Hinted . I dont know. Inferred . You dont know, okay. Senator Kamala Harris a year ago on capitol hill practically leaving the u. S. Attorney general speechless, reminding us of the alarmingly cozy relationship the president has with his a. G. Former fbi director jim comey addressing that in a statement just released after news of the doj seeking to drop mike flynns case. Quote, the doj has lost its way. Career people, please say because America Needs you. The country is hungry for honest, competent leadership. Joining us now, california senator Kamala Harris, former democratic president ial candidate, also the former attorney general of california, former district attorney. First, senator harris, on the news that bill barr has done what donald trump sought to get jim comey to do years ago, see to it to let mike flynn go. Its not surprising, frankly, nicolle. That hearing in may of last year, so a full year ago i called for bill barr to resign. He clearly has never followed the role, the responsibility and the mission of the attorney general which is to be the peoples lawyer. He has instead consistently done Donald Trumps bidding, and this is yet another example. You know, heres the thing. Remember elliott richardson, nixons attorney general, under a republican, nominated by a republican president who refused to do the investigation of Archibald Cox and said im resigning, right . The role and responsibility of the United States department of justice is to do justice, unimpeded, uninterfered by favor or fear, and also to do the work that is about doing justice and not being interfered with by a political agenda which is clearly Donald Trumps agenda. Its outrageous and i couldnt agree more, i absolutely agree we have to make sure that the career professionals in that Department Stay there and hold down the fort in spite of the fact that theres an attorney general of the United States who is who has really done the work of disrupting justice in america. Its work thats ongoing. Attorney general barr is running a u. S. Attorney out of connecticut, mr. Durham, who is reexamining and its become a criminal investigation as well some of the very same conduct thats been examined almost half a dozen times by inspectors general and others. Is there any way to reach in and protect the kind of individuals youre talking about, career prosecutors . Well, one, we have to have oversight and weve been asking for that oversight. Ive asked that barr come before the judicial committee. Im on the Senate Judiciary committee and we need to have oversight. We need to find out what is going on. From the earliest days when you played the tape of my questions of barr when he was up for confirmation, we need to oversee what is happening in that agency in terms of what conversations bill barr is having with the president , what kind of conversations they are having that are about interfering with the justice being done by the career folks there. But this is outrageous. This is outrageous. And in the midst of this pandemic, in the midst of people standing in line for hours to get food, in the midst of i just saw some information today, one out of five mothers are saying that their children are hungry. In the midst of a crisis because this president will not use the defense production act to get the number of tests out to america that we need to actually have some control over this pandemic, in the midst of all of that, the president has his attorney general, the hand of the president doing his political work, his personal bidding, in the face of what should be a Justice Department doing the work of preserving justice and fighting for justice in america. But thats not what were going to get in bill barr. Again, i will say, he should resign. Your statistic you just mentioned, one in five mothers in this country of Young Children say that their children are hungry right now is the front page story on todays New York Times, and versions of that story on the front pages of papers from your home state to mine. Youve teamed up with a chef and with bipartisan members of congress but is this more urgent than that . Is this something that we need to solve before, with all due respect, it can work its way through congress . Yeah, it is. So thats one of the pieces of legislation that im working on that is bipartisan. We have senator tim scott from South Carolina together with chefs including jose andres, the feed act and it is about supplying local restaurants with federal support to do the work that they want and need to do to feed their communities. Theres more work that were doing. Were doing work thats about supporting Small Businesses. I also announced this week the s. O. S. Act which is save our street. In particular, save the businesses that are right down the street, be it the local restaurant or the bodega or the food truck. Those Small Businesses that have missed out on what should have been their opportunity to receive the paycheck protection program, theyve not received it and so im saying we should carve out in the next tranche those businesses that have ten or fewer employees so they can receive the benefit that they need to actually stay open and do the business that theyre doing in their communities because after all they really are part of the life blood of communities and they are the ones who feed and participate in all the work that needs to happen in communities to make sure children are not going hungry. The other thing, nicolle, we also need in this next package an extension of snap benefits which is food stamps. We tried to get it in the last democrats tried to get it. We didnt get it. The other thing about snap benefits, we need to get rid of the work rerequirement. We have 33 Million People in america who just in the last few weeks have become unemployed. To have a work requirement that people are employed in order to get food stamps is outrageous because of course we now have 33 Million People who are not working so theres a lot of work that needs to happen and needs to happen immediately, to your point, so that these children are not going hungry. What do you say about this whiplash . You look at the lines of cars in places like dallas lining up for the food banks and its clear that these were families on their way to car pool and offices 60 days ago, and now we have a president who throws around the death toll with the callousness thats unimaginable. What do you make of all the country has been through in the last 60, 70 days . Honestly, it breaks my heart. I know it does that for all of us. People are suffering right now. People are hungry. Theyre standing in lines. There is a hunger crisis in america right now, and we need to come to terms with this and this is again where we need a commanderinchief who takes on the responsibility of lifting up the American People and meeting their needs while in this crisis people are suffering literally to get food to feed their families. The fact that in America Today we have so many hungry people and that this is our crisis is unconscionable and it requires all leaders to step up and focus on what is important today. Its not letting somebody like flynn off who pled guilty because he is guilty. Its about having people in a position of leadership who are addressing the needs of people who are suffering in America Today. The coincidence that this happened, that the department of justice does this on the same day that the most recent unemployment numbers come out, on the same day that we have a report that one in five mothers is explaining that their children are hungry, talk about misplaced priorities. It is about an abject failure of leadership, abandonment of leadership when the American People need their government the most. I ask this question on behalf of a lot of our viewers. Are you being vetted as Vice President for joe biden . Im not going to talk about any personal conversations, but obviously as ive said before, id be honored to serve with joe biden if asked, but there you go. That wasnt a no to are you being vetted. I want to ask you about i want to ask you what that would look like. I mean, if youre part of his effort as his running mate or in any capacity, you have endorsed him. What does it look like to deliver the kind of messages you just delivered here, that it is not right that within 70 days a Small Business owner goes from thriving and planning summer camp and soccer camp and after School Activities for their kids to standing on line for food . This is a moment that requires leaders to lead. Weve seen this with the mayors around our country, governors around our country, people who are civic leaders, business leaders. This is a moment where we all have to lead with a sense of empathy for those who are suffering, with a sense of the determination to know that a moment of crisis requires us to embrace truth and speak truth no matter how difficult that may be to hear. This is what is required at this moment. It is required that we embrace the hard facts which is there are 33 Million People who in the last several weeks lost their jobs with no plan in place to get them through this crisis. This is a moment where we address hungry children in america. These are the issues that we have to address, and it is with a plan and this is why, for example, we are working on what we need to do around food insecurity. This is why were working on the relief that we need to bring Small Businesses now but also if we are to recover in terms of our economy, we have to understand Small Businesses are part of the life blood of the American Economy and theyre suffering right now to your point, so many that may never be able to reopen if we dont address their needs immediately. This is the work that needs to be done by all leaders regardless of their position or their title. What sort of Human Interaction is giving you hope because i think people are getting to this stage in the pandemic where were so blessed, so lucky, those of us who can work from home and teach our babies upstairs in between our job. But youre right, so many people dont have that luxury. Going back to work for them means putting themselves in harms way and how do we stay connected to our neighbors and our for me, fellow new yorkers, for you your fellow californians . Part of it is we have to see the incredible acts of generosity that we are seeing every day and where there has, yes, been a failure of our government, people in their communities and their neighborhoods are stepping up. Its a funny story but i have a friend whose brotherinlaw is one of those folks who believe that the world might come to an tend so hes been stocking up on n95 masks for years. I have a friend with that too. With meals ready to eat. So he sent her a bunch of them to which he put them all in the car and took them to the local church that is doing the work of feeding the hungry so that the people who are working there every day can have that equipment to keep them safe. Were seeing incredible acts of generosity and kindness which is an extension of strength. Ill say this, one of the greatest measures of strength that you can see about yourself is your power to actually lift someone else up and that is an incredible strength. Your ability to help someone else shows your real strength. That is the best measure of strength, is when you see that you can help other people and you do that. So, america is strong in character, in our ability to know that this is a moment that requires us to sacrifice in a way that is about helping other people. We are strong by nature. We are suffering. We are in the midst of a crisis but we are strong and we are going to fight for each other and for our future. But that requires us, again, to be honest and be smart and focused on the practical needs that people have and that our neighbors have right now. Senator Kamala Harris, please come back if theres any developments in the vetting process. We appreciate you taking our questions and spending some time with us. After the break, donald trump who wont wear a mask because it might make him look silly and believes testing is overrated learning today that one of his valets has tested positive. Well talk about that next. Vald positive well talk about that next how about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. Nbc news has confirmed one of Donald Trumps personal valets, a member of the u. S. Military who works at the white house, has tested positive for coronavirus. Hes an official who works very closely with donald trump and who, among his other responsibilities, serves him his meals. Whats more, a white house official says that valets have not been wearing masks, even when working directly with the president , something a source with knowledge of the situation called, quote, an operational failure. The white house has stressed that both donald trump and Vice President mike pence have tested negative for the virus since they learned about the confirmed cases. The news puts an exclamation point on the growing concern over the example trump is setting, openly flouting his own federal governments social distancing recommendations and mask guidelines in recent public events. Donald trump telling advisers, according to the Associated Press, that, quote, he believes wearing a mask would send the wrong message. The president said doing so would make it seem like hes preoccupied with health instead of reopening the nations economy which his aides believe aids in his reelection in november. Joining us, dr. Leana wen, and associated editor for real clear politics, amy stoddard. Dr. Wen, nobody looks like a runway model in a mask but the point is were doing it and the point for president doing it more than anyone on this planet would be to set the example that we can all protect each other by doing this thing that may look funny but might save lives. Thats right, nicolle. This is about all of us being together and by wearing a mask it sends the signal that i care about you because if i happen to be an asymptomatic carrier, i dont want people around me, those i love but also strangers who i never met, i dont want you to become sick. I would expect for everyone to be doing this, certainly coming from the president of the United States but everyone to be setting this example of Good Public Health practice. Theres so much here and i dont want to gloss over the valet or the mask because i think theyre both touchstones on a much bigger story. I asked jonathan in the last year if there were any other notes or messages or public statements about this valet, just remembering how close the bush family was to all the people who worked there. They would have done anything to protect the people who travelled in and out of work and i wonder on this news of someone that close to the president and his family being sick and perhaps bringing Something Back and forth to the white house and the other on just his refusal either over vanity or optics to do the thing that every other american is being asked to do, wear a mask. Its really interesting for a president whos an admitted germophobe and is going through machine tests daily, multiple times a day and making sure that anyone who comes near him for his prop events in the east room and all of these events hes having now because he cant hold briefings because republicans and his own allies and Campaign Officials begged him not to, everybody has to be tested whos around him. So the fact that someone would be around the president in service to him and the culture is that you dont wear a mask because were all cool here and we think everythings fine, its a fascinating cautionary tale that in the end someone having to come so close to the president so many times a day in a servant role, bringing him things at his beck and call, not Vice President pence, would end up sick. You saw in the Fox Town Hall on sunday night the Vice President was very honest saying i should have i didnt know the guidelines when he went to mayo clinic but he apologized for not having a mask on and he said he wore one the next time he went out in public and said it was the right thing to do, and when bret baier asked the president mask or no mask in arizona this week, the president dodged it several times and refused to address the subject. We know that the president is not going to ever put on a mask in public, and his whole policy is to wish this pandemic away so the results of his tests, if they continue to be negative, thats good news, but he is supposed to, as we all know, and dr. Wen knows so well, quarantine for 14 days to make sure that he doesnt put anybody else in peril. Instead hes having governors traipse up here and sit with him in the oval office again because he cant hold the briefings at the podium anymore, and he has 93yearold veterans traveling to see him for an Award Ceremony in several days, people who should not be traveling right now. Dr. Wen, can you just lay out some cold, hard medical advice to anyone that is thinking about traveling right now. Youve got 44 states looking at reopening in some form or fashion by monday. An infection deep in the residence of the white house, not the office part but where the first family actually lives. Are we trying to do too much too fast . We are. We have not met the white houses own criteria for reopening. Basically no state has met the criteria, including the 14day decline in the number of cases and also having the testing, the tracing, the treatment capacities which are not there which by the way i find hypocritical that the president is getting tested so frequently but yet is saying that everybody else does not need to be tested so frequently in order to return back to work or school. We are not there as a country. Were not there as individual states, and unfortunately what this means is that we have basically as a country said weve given up on containment. Weve given up trying to contain this virus and now were just going to live with it and see what happens when it spreads throughout our country. I guess its about time that we recognize it, in which case we can prepare hospitals for the surge of infections thats going to come, and we can prepare as individual people. So, no, we should not be doing any kind of nonessential travel right now. We should still also be trying to minimize our own risk. We shouldnt go to work. We should telecommute if we can. Definitely no gatherings, no play dates, no school, no events, and do our part to minimize risks for ourselves and our loved ones. Dr. Wen, youre going to have to come back and we have to pick up this conversation. It sounds like a real reckoning is in store for all of us. Thank you so much for spending some time with us and for your can der. After the break, the step by step guide to reopening the country but guess what the white house did with it. Thats next. Y but guess what the house did with it. Thats next. Woman my reputation was trashed online. I felt completely helpless. My entire career and business were in jeopardy. I called reputation defender. Vo take control of your online reputation. Get your free reputation report card at reputationdefender. Com. Find out your online reputation today and let the experts help you repair it. Woman they were able to restore my good name. Vo visit reputationdefender. Com or call 18778668555. There are so many toothpastes out there, which one should i use . Try crest pro active defense. It neutralizes bacteria for a healthier mouth than even the leading multibenefit toothpaste. Crest. With the debate over saving lives or boosting the economy reaching a crescendo, a new report from the Associated Press describes the latest white house effort to turn down the volume on the health side of reopening. Quote, the Trump Administration has shelved a document created by the nations top disease investigators with step by step advice to local authorities on how and when to reopen restaurants and other Public Places during the still raging coronavirus outbreak. The 17page report was researched and written to help faith leaders, business owners, educators and state and local officials as they begin to reopen. It was supposed to be published last friday but Agency Scientists were told the guidance would, quote, never live to see the light of influence the guidance of largely nonpolitical health agency. Joining our conversation New York Times political reporter. Nick, your newspaper and the Associated Press and the Washington Post now have a crush of reporting around the president constantly out loud prioritizing the economy over the saving lives as though it is an either or proposition. As we have been talking, he refuses to wear a mask, set kpm example of mask wearing. Where do you see this open battle of his political aims and science at the executive level today . The important thing is that the cdc document here is the pure science approach. The safest time and the safest way to reopen the country. I think whats happening here is that the white house has insisted this be a political decision and not a purely science decision. They want to final say and the final sensitivity on when to do this. It is the most important question that President Trump will face in his entire presidency, i think. Its disturbing to think that the scientific advice is being deep sixed. You know, nick, just to follow up, the way to strengthen himself politically and to shore up his kred credibility that si around 23 of all Americans Trust him would be to say, here is what the science said. Here is the jobless number. Picked something many the the middle. The public can handle being levelled with at the best of times and the worst of times, they demand it. Its not going to help President Trump if theres a second outbreak in red states or blue states that have reopened too early and people start getting sick in the fall. Thats going to destroy him politically. The people who are most likely to be at risk, if this pandemic really spreads across the rest of the country are his own voters. Older people across the country. He is shooting himself in the foot if he acts too precipitously. A. B. , there is a callousness thats seeped into the way donald trump talked about it. When we cover him we echo the callousness. How do we erase that . Hes throwing around the death count talk about his numbers as being pretty good. How do we shield ourselves from talk about numbers of americans, of grandmas and moms and dads losing their life inform this time to this pandemic in the way he does . It was so interesting. Its heartening to hear they never adapted a National Plan to contain the spread of the virus on may 7th but the plan is to just let it go wild and focus on the economy. No more guidelines sin tiff scientifically guidelines out of the cdc or me medical body. Just focus on the trajectory of magical thinking that sustains enough demand that he sees some improvement. Its very cynical and callous but he has chosen to blame the states. He will not put stand up a National Federal plan for this controlling the spread of the virus. He will not put inti tisesting, tracing and isolation which would be hard work and heavy lifting. Hes always relied on deception. Hes literally wishing this away saying in a lot of state its going down. Thats not true. Theres many epidemics over the place. The only heartening thing is that senior, hes lost support of seniors by 20 points in the last month. Why is that heartening . They are paying attention to the facts. Not only are governors and mayors really see now in the eyes of the public and leaders and stepped up but people are taking care of their own health and not listening to federal government. Thats the most important thing. Its important but its a stunning state of affairs. Wonderful to see you both of you. Thanks for spending some time with us. As part of our ongoing effort for these to never just be nevers or statistics to us and you. Waents we want to show you a photo. The facebook caption, my current dilemma. Well get fwook thback to that second. We have learned something and maybe you noticed it. Its not enough to just mourn who the people were. Its also about mourning who they could have become. Lets talk about darren adams. Buzzfeed he was in and out on theft and drug offenses. She said at some point he made a pact with god. He promised god he would make changes. He would never go back to prison so the 54yearold pressed forward and ended with a job at a custodian at Wayne State University in detroit. He enrolled in school, started classes, began working on his degree all while working as a custodian. By all accounts, he was an engaged student. Very bright. A 3. 58 gpa. He has planned to get a masters degree when he was done. Clearly, he was going somewhere. Well show you this photo again. Now sick. Its dated march 23rd. He died from coronavirus 11 days after it was taken. The American Dream interrupted. He was 20 credits shy of his graduation. Wayne State University is giving him a degree any way. The department of socialogy will make a scholarship in his name. Well remember darren and more people can too. Well leave you with something we posted online. His quote. My passion is to help others realize their dreams are capable of coming true. With hard work, discipline, faith and the belief in self. Darren adams well remember your words and remember you. Thank you for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. Our coverage continues with chuck todd right after a quick break. With chuck todd right after a quick break. At leaf blowers. You should be mad your neighbor always wants to hang out. And you should be mad your smart fridge is unnecessarily complicated. Make ice. Making ice. But youre not mad because you have e trade which isnt complicated. Their tools make trading quicker and simpler so you can take on the markets with confidence. Dont get mad get e trade and start Trading Commission free today. Donmany of lifes moments in thare being put on hold. Are staying at home, at carvana, we understand that, for some, getting a car just cant wait. To help, were giving our customers up to 90 days to make their first payment. Shop online from the comfort of your couch, and get your car with touchless delivery to keep you safe. And for even Greater Peace of mind, all carvana cars come with a sevenday return policy. So, if you need to keep moving, were here for you. At carvana the safer way to buy a car. Welcome to thursday. Its meet the press daily. We have surpassed another grim milestone. 75,000 american vs ds from died just over two months. As President Trump pushes for the country to reopen, the federal government isnt really or willing to take on the responsibility for the opening and what could happen even if