Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline White House 20191108

Blatant and obvious that mr. Trump was demanding investigations into his political rivals. Those investigations are what vindman refers to as a deliverable in his testimony. In this first exchange, vindman is asked, quote, you were listening in realtime to this call along with president zelensky when President Trump was speaking. Vindman says correct. Then hes asked and was there any doubt in your mind as to what the president , our president , was asking for as a deliverable . There is that reference to the investigations. Vindmans answer, there was no doubt. Vindman adds that the stature and the importance of the office of the presidency raised the stakes of the president s request such that ukraine was not left with much of any choice. The power disparity, vindman says, between the president of the United States and the president of ukraine is vast. And in the president asking for something, it became for a white house meeting because thats what this was about, vindman testifies. He continues, this was about getting a white house meeting. It was a demand for him to fulfill this particular prerequisite, those investigations in order to get the meeting. The revelations from the two transcripts released today are numerous, and they include first revealing acting white house chief of staff Mick Mulvaney as the key architect of the quid pro quo with ukraine. Thats significant, well get to it. Second, pulling back the curtain on a socalled irregular channel of diplomats. And third providing insights into efforts to cover up concerns about the administrations actions. We are going to get to all of that and a lot more. But first another critical detail that is worth highlighting here. The great risk that these witnesses have undertaken and coming forward publicly to tell the truth about what they witnessed. From fiona hills testimony, quote, i received, i just have to tell you, death threats, calls at my home. My neighbors reported somebody coming and hammering on the door. Now im not easily intimidated, she says, but that made me mad. Fiona hill not the first witness in this impeachment inquiry to Tell Congress she fears for her safety because of her participation in these proceedings. Here to talk about it all with us right now, the former acting solicitor general. Former u. S. Attorney, joyce vance, and former assistant director for Counter Intelligence at the fbi frank figliuzzi. With me here at the table shelby holiday. Politics reporter for the wall street journal. And just sort of give us a sense of the significance and the strength of the testimony from these individuals, witnesses, one of them on that call to the existence of a quid pro quo. Well, peter, its quite significant. Its kind of like a bad novel in which you are introduced to a character and you suspect hes bad and then every single revelation throughout the book reveals further evidence that hes bad. No plot twists at all. And thats basic wlaechl what we have here. We had a whistleblower report that said a bunch of stuff. And now we have witness after witness after witness including fiona hill whos, after all, trumps appointee saying, yes, this entire story is accurate. And it makes the president i think it puts him in a very tough spot. He gave a press Conference Today in which he said basically that everything the whistleblower said is wrong and silly, stuff like that. And, you know, its very, very tenuous for him at this point because every day is a new witness and a new witness that says the president put his own personal interests above the interests of the United States. And to be clear, neal, it was Alexander Vindman who was on that call who said there were some words omitted. There are omissions as he testifies. He says there was no doubt, correct . Exactly. I mean, it was devastating in. That sense he said im on the call, there was no doubt about exactly what the president was asking. And then further he said something really remarkable. He said as the nsc National Security council official, he was worried that if the russians found out that the president was withholding this Ukrainian Military aid, it would make them, quote, more aggressive. So what vindman is saying, he is describing the case for what impeachment is about when a president puts his personal interests over the nation and vindman saying congress appropriated this aid because it was a way to try and curtail russian aggression. And here now you have a president who secretly is trying to withhold it in order to help his campaign. I cant think of something more worse. Frank, just to sort of put a point on what we are hearing from neal here, lets take a step back and get a better understanding. This is not Something Back and forth thats happening behind closed doors. This really is about ukrainian lives that are at stake. American aid to ukraine which was already witnessing part of its country being annexed by russia here. This is about american National Security, isnt it . Yeah. And youre absolutely right. I think americans need to really get their arms around that notion. And it comes out, it pops out at me if you read the transcript of colonel vindmans deposition, particularly where he explains why we should care about ukraine, why its tied to our National Security. And he points out that ukraine is in an active conflict with russia. Russias our adversary. Ukraines fighting an okayifying and invading force and defending itself against an existential threat. And i think the most embarrassing and disturbing account in the transcript that ive read from vindman is where he describes he and fiona hill both describe this meeting with the ukrainians and the ukrainians are there waiting to get that essential aid. And sondland, in front of the ukrainians, goes ahead and talks about the bribery, says, you know, you are going to get a white house meeting if you go ahead and do these investigations that were requesting. And bolton ends the meeting right there. He is so disturbed by this. He says basically we gotta go. Get out of the room. We are out of here. Its in front of our friend who needs our help. We are trying to essentially bribe them with a white house visit. So thats important what you said. Joyce, i want to bring you into this here and for the audience. This is for a meeting that took place on july 10th. We heard from the testimony today that both vindman and fiona hill said that Gordon Sondland, he was one of the president s three amigos, one of the guys who was sort of leading this Ukraine Foreign shadow policy that he implicated the president s acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney. So this is from fiona hills testimony. She said about that meeting, ambassador sondland in front of the ukrainians as i came in was talking about how he had an agreement with chief of staff mulvaney for a meeting with the ukrainians. If they were going to go forward with investigations. And from Lieutenant Colonel vindman. He said the following. Ambassador sondland relatively quickly went into outlining the deliverable, those investigations, he says in order to secure this meeting. I heard him say that this had been coordinated with white house chief of staff mr. Mick mulvaney. What did he say about that, he was asked . Vindman said he had just said that he had a conversation with mr. Mulvaney. And this is what was required in order to get a meeting. To be clear, Mick Mulvaney, effectively the president s righthand man, perhaps the second most powerful person in the country. So how do house investigators pursue this as it relates to impeachment . You know, peter, we talk a lot about the difference between prosecuting a criminal case and impeachment. And the reason we talk about that is because there is a much lower bar necessary for impeachment. It requires an abuse of the office as opposed to actually committing a crime. But what we see here in this testimony thats been released today from vindman and hill is we see the fullblown conspiracy. We see ambassador sondland talking to the ukrainians, blurting out the quid pro quo. If you will go ahead and announce an investigation into the bidens to benefit the president , then we will release this aid that you desperately need. And the reason that matters, the reason we talk about that quid pro quo is because it amounts to bribery. This is an effort by the president , whos a public official, to obtain something thats valuable to him in exchange for acting in his official capacity. And we see the full conspiracy here because we know that this offer, this bribe, is conveyed to the ukrainians. We see it traced up to Mick Mulvaney in this testimony. And how do we know it goes all the way up to the president . Republicans have tried to suggest that maybe the three amigos or Rudy Giuliani had gone rogue here. We know it goes to the president because we have the memo that hes released of his conversation with president zelensky where he too says do me a favor. Its a full blown conspiracy. As neal says so eloquently, it more than adequately warrants impeachment based on these transcripts weve seen released. Shelby, let me bring you into this conversation. A couple of weeks ago i was in the White House Briefing room when Mick Mulvaney came in for a hastily organized briefing to speak to us. And he effectively admitted to a quid pro quo, which he later said he didnt do. But i was staring at it. Thats exactly what he did here. Kellyanne conway on the north lawn a couple of days ago basically said this is a bad game of adult male telephone, that this was just sort of a message that got muddled along the way. How much more complicated did the situation for Mick Mulvaney just get . Its quite complicated. Today we are getting more and more details on the record. But this has been, as you said, he mentioned this publicly just a few weeks ago. I think whats so significant is the president continues to use the transcript as his defense. Read the transcript, read the transcript, theres no quid pro quo. Well, as we are getting more and more testimony in as the impeachment proceedings will become public, all of these witnesses are actually filling in key details about the transcript that detail not just one phone call but an effort starting in may when the president directed the three amigos, if you will, to talk to rudy. I wont do anything in ukraine until rudy is satisfied. Talk to rudy, talk to rudy. So they did. And rudy was very publicly calling for these investigations. Gordon sondland, i was reading through his entire testimony earlier. And he claimed to not put biden with burisma early on. He said that came much later. It didnt really occur to him. But he was the one in these meetings that were hearing about more today that said you wont get your white house meeting until you launch these investigations in the energy sector. So everyone is saying it was very clear. There was no doubt in the words of colonel vindman what that meant. But ambassador sondland has said there was a doubt for him, i guess, because he didnt know burisma equalled biden. And just to be very clear here that the way initially the way the transcript has been written, it doesnt even mention burisma. Right, the company. That it refers to it as the company, there that zelensky brought it up. Thats an important point. Neal, let me bring you back in for a second. We talk about these memory lapses, these inconsistencies as it relates to Gordon Sondlands testimony. Heres one example. He was asked during his closeddoor deposition. Did you have a conversation with mr. Mulvaney about a white house visit for president zelensky . He says i dont recall. We know he has already updated his testimony once. He said in fact i now recall. So what is the circumstance for Gordon Sondland right now who is facing a lot more potential legal hot water . Yeah. Its quite devastating. Mr. Sondland testified before and basically said a bunch of stuff. And then other witnesses came forward and said he was wrong. And then all of a sudden magically he remembered a whole bunch of stuff. But still claims to forget, you know, crucial things like was a white house meeting arranged . I mean, you know, either the guy is the most forgetful guy whos ever served in administration or Something Else is going on. This is a repeated problem. Its the transcripts too, like shelby was saying. The transcripts say one thing. But then we have colonel vindman saying i was actually on the call and it said Something Else. So what they claim is reality often isnt reality. And there is some obfuscation and hiding going on. And thats why i think the investigation by schiff has been so thorough and detailed. Thats why its taking time because while the july 25th transcript alone is certainly enough to impeach him, what schiff is doing is just making sure crossing every t and dotting the is to get the testimony of everyone to make sure absolutely sure. And when the president says read the transcript and exonerates him, thats absolutely wrong. The only thing the president can hope for is the context around this transcript because this transcript is damning. But he is hoping for i guess someone who said it was actually opposite day on the call on july 25th, and everyone was saying the opposite of what they meant. Obviously thats not the case. The witnesses are all coming forward and corroborating exactly what the whistleblower said. What strikes me is someone who covered the Donald Trump Campaign before he became president. I have stayed in touch with some of the trump backers i met along the way as they communicate with them or even calls in recent days. They will write to me just read the transcript. Peter says have you read the transcript. But they pair it back to this talking point. President. Because this is not a Legal Process its a political process. The motivation for the white house here is basically to keep the republican ducks in line so they can protect the president here. Whats also striking from today is this portrait of a coverup that is being painted. This is some new testimony from today as it relates to the conversations that vindman and hill had with the National Security council lawyer, the top legal adviser, a man by the name of John Eisenberg. Take a listen to this. First from fiona hill who testifies that i told John Eisenberg that ambassador sondland had basically indicated that there was agreement with the chief of staff that they would have a white house meeting or, you know, a president ial meeting if the ukrainians started up these investigations again. And the main thing that i was personally concerned about as i said to john, was that he did this in front of the ukrainians as we have noted. And from colonel vindman who also reported his concerns to eisenberg. Take a listen to this, which is particularly damning i think. He was asked did mr. Eisenberg tell you not to report, to go around your direct report and go straight to him . Vindman says actually he did at a later point say that i should not talk to any other people. Frank, this picture of a coverup thats being painted by these two critical witnesses. Well, we all know its the coverup thats worse than the crime. That certainly was the factor in watergate. And essentially its related also to sticking the summary of this call in what is the equivalent of a hightech black hole. That super secret compartmented database where no one really can get access to it. Now we are hearing people saying dont talk about the call. We have this career military professional trying to do the right thing, go through the chain of kmabd. And i think thats going to be very compelling once we get to the testimony is this coverup aspect. That is what ends most of the Corruption Cases worked certainly by the fbi in my experience. You come clean, you have a shot. You cover up, the public doesnt like coverups. And, joyce, it really is that sort of, i dont know, those discussions that demonstrate a consciousness of guilt that existed in and around the president s inner circle. I think thats exactly right. You know, the difficulty in these sorts of cases as a prosecutor, if youre looking at public corruption, is almost always proving intent and proving guilty knowledge. But as soon as you have a excuse me a coverup, that problem goes away. Because the coverup becomes the proof of guilty knowledge of intent to engage in criminal activity that you now know you have to keep away from investigators. So its a very important piece of information. The existence of a coverup here is absolutely clear. Joyce, thank you. Frank figliuzzi, we thank you for spending some time with us. When we come back right here on deadline white house, what does he know and when will he talk . John boltons lawyer says the former National Security adviser knows a lot and wants a judge to effectively decide if he should testify. Plus, todays strategy by republicans to defend trump from impeachment offering up some fall guys. And paging Kevin Mccarthy. Critics say your sbraetion is showing. The latest attempt by the gop to ensure the public hearings beginning next week will most surely not be about the substance. And the attorney general whos been awfully quiet unless his previous forceful defenses of donald trump. Well have all those stories coming up. Es coming up. Ave some great new ideas that we want to present to you today. [son] who are you talking to . [son] that guys scary. The first item on the list is selecting a chairman for the. For the Advisory Board whats this . As well as use the remaining. Child care options run out. Lifetime Retirement Income from tiaa doesnt. Guaranteed monthly income for life. Theyre americas biopharmaceutical researchers. Pursuing lifechanging cures in a country that fosters innovation here, they find breakthroughs. Like a way to fight cancer by arming a patients own tcells. Because its not just about the next breakthrough. Its all the ones after that. You get more than yourFree Shipping. Ir, you get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, ill take that. Wait honey, no. When you want it. You get a delivery experience you can always count on. You get your perfect find at a price to match, on your own schedule. You get fast and Free Shipping on the things that make your home feel like you. Thats what you get when youve got wayfair. So shop now that could allow hackers devices into your home. Ys and like all doors, theyre safer when locked. Thats why you need xfinity xfi. With the xfi gateway, devices connected to your homes wifi are protected. Which helps keep people outside from accessing your passwords, credit cards and cameras. And people inside from accidentally visiting sites that arent secure. And if someone trys well let you know. Xfi advanced security. If its connected, its protected. Call, click, or visit a store today. Were back now on deadline white house. Im peter alexander. John bolton, a man who was already a major figure in this ukraine saga, apparently has information that impeachment investigators do not. That enticing new detail revealed today in a letter from boltons attorney to lawmakers. This letter obtained by nbc news indicates, quote, from bolton was personally involved in many of the events, meetings, and conversations about which you have already received testimony. And heres the important part. As well as many relevant meetings and conversations that have not yet been discussed in the testimonies thus far. Thats whats raising eyebrows. Now you might remember bolton was a noshow for his deposition yesterday. So why are they teasing such explosive information if their client did not show up to reveal it . That his team does not oppose faced with competing orders from the white house and congress on whether or not he can testify. Bolton and his team said again today they want a judge to decide on the matter. Lets bring in from the Washington Post senior political reporter aaron blake. The chairman at the center for africanamerican studies at Princeton University eddie glaude. Nice to see you, eddie, in person today. Joyce is also with us as well as neal right now. And, joyce, let me start right now if i can as a legal, legal on this. What is this cat and mouse game thats going on right here . Why wouldnt john bolton just come forward and testify, and it seems like with the new letter to lawmakers today his team is basically saying, hey, guys, you should really want to talk to us. Whats up here . You know, it looks like they really do want the subpoena. They are trying to convince representative schiff to send them one. But that subpoena is i think more about political cover than it is about legal niceties. Bolton doesnt need a subpoena in order to testify. Hes no longer an employee of this white house. But weve seen both current and former employees show up to testify. We saw it yesterday with a member of Vice President pences staff. If bolton wants to tell his story to the american people, hes got every opportunity to do that. The subpoena is perhaps so he doesnt antagonize republican allies and can live to serve again in the future. But its really not a country over party moment for john bolton. Neal, let me ask you about this. If they were to pursue a subpoena, the court was to pursue this case, its a case that would involve not just john bolton but also a man by the name of charles kupperman. He was a former deputy to bolton. Democrats say they dont want to just play this game and just let it go for a while. How long would that go before there could be some resolution . Could that be resolved quickly . So the democrats position i think so far has been, look, we dont need bolton. The transcript alone is enough. And we already know what bolton has said in a variety of accounts including from fiona hill in the testimony released today. Its all damning with respect to President Trump. So we dont need bolton and dont want to have a court fight. There is a separate court fight thats been brewing about boltons deputy as kupperman which has been set for argument on december 10th. So here is, i think, the solution for the democrats because now bolton is tantalizing us with more details about what he knows. I think the democrats should subpoena him, go to the house and say go to the court and say december 10th is ridiculous. We want to have an argument next week. We certainly had that in lots of other highstakes litigation from the steel seizure case to even the nixon tapes case in which it all moved very, very fast. Theres no reason to wait until december 10th. I know trumps lawyers had tried to delay it out saying thanksgiving, holidays and the like. That makes no sense. We can have the argument next week. This should be a really simple argument because trumps legal argument here is i have absolute immunity and no one who works for me can testify. Thats a totally made up thing. And it shouldnt take very long to write a brief or to argue that position because its all conjured up from thin air anyway. So, aaron, let me ask you, bolton is obviously central to this conversation here. And just to repeat what the letter says. It basically says that he knows about conversations and meetings that lawmakers have not yet discussed. What does bolton know and why arent the democrats saying lets stick with this . You know, ive almost wondered from the beginning here whether there almost wasnt a little bit of gainsmanship here on behalf of bolton right now. This is somebody who exited the white house on some pretty bad circumstances. He feuded with the president about the circumstances. He had been on the outs for a number of months in that white house, as you well know. You know, given that back story, if he had just waltzed into a deposition room and started kind of ripping the lid off this entire thing, i think it risked looking like he had an ax to grind like he was really trying to undermine the president on this. I think if he looks like a little bit more of a reluctant witness like hes giving deference to this court case playing out over whether Administration Officials are going to have to testify here, that might ultimately make him a more powerful witness because it doesnt look like hes just going in there to try and take down the president. And so i look at this letter today. And i look at something that says somebody who is a motivated witness who is hinting at that, but maybe was waiting to make sure this went through the proper channels. And in my conversations with sources close to john bolton, thats sort of the impression ive gotten. Eddie, you were shaking your head. Whats your sort of take from this mental with john bolton . It seems to be a condition of what joyce just said. He needs political cover. And on the other hand he is trying to in some ways looks like hes not just going after donald trump. I think for democrats they already know what they have. Its very clear. John bolton is not a good actor. He never has been, at least from my vantage point. So i dont see why they need to give him political cover. They just need to proceed with what they have. A guy who has just infuriated democrats and progressives certainly as it relates to Foreign Policy for years appears that he is in this position potentially to really, as aaron said, kind of rip the lid off things. They are hinting that he knows a lot more. I was struck by im sorry in vindmans testimony he talks about this august 10th meeting that included bolton, trump, pompeo, and esper. And they talked about trump being presented with a recommendation to release the security aid. We dont know what happened in that meeting. We dont know what was said. But i would add the wall street journal has new reporting right now. Dont forget about lev parnas. He said he is willing to cooperate with congress. He is one of Rudy Giulianis associates. He was working closely with Rudy Giuliani to get this biden investigation going. And now the wall street journal is reporting that lev parnas actually delivered a message to Petro Poroshenko that he should open an investigation into burisma in exchange for a white house meeting. So this quid pro quo business seems to be going back a lot farther than previously known. And people watching on tv, neal i bring you back on this. This is another quote from fiona hill. This is one of the former officials who was overseeing this region, as they related to russia and ukraine. She testified the following. She said and this is a direct quote from ambassador bolton. You go and tell eisenberg, referring to the top National Security council lawyer, that i am not part of whatever drug deal sondland and mulvaney are cooking up on this. You go and tell him what youve heard and what ive said. Bolton was upset about what he saw was going on behind closed doors. And, frankly, not always behind closed doors. Sometimes in front of the ukrainians. Yeah. I found it to be a striking statement. And the details of that have trickled out over the last weeks. But i think one of the most interesting things is john bolton is an establishment conservative, as conservative as they come. But hes also a lawyer. And i have this is an opportunity for people to understand that whats going on here is not about politics. Its about something much deeper and much closer to the heart of what america is, which is we are a country of law and of rules. And when you have a president that defies them, it doesnt matter what party you are. You can be as conservative as you want. But you got to stand up for that. And i very much hope that boltons letter today is a signal that thats what he wants to do. So, aaron, is this the end of the road for john bolton . Do we think the democrats may change their mind and decide to pursue it . I wouldnt be surprised if they tried to get him in there if they thought it was at all possible. He has knowledge of events that other people dont. He could confirm the testimony that were seeing of vindman and hill today in which they said that Gordon Sondland said that he had talked to Mick Mulvaney about the meeting being used as a quid pro quo. Hearing that from somebody like john bolton who, yes, he exited the white house on not exactly great circumstances. But he is no friend to democrats. Hes somebody who is very much in the neoconmovement. Hearing it from somebody with that kind of a background rather than a lot of these other figures that really people dont know and dont have a history with i think would be a pretty powerful witness for them if they can make it happen. The president himself has sort of mocked from the very beginning, even joking about his bad mustache as the president described it. And just to conclude to punctuate this point. The last sentence in this letter from boltons attorney to the house lawmakers is if the house chooses not to pursue through subpoena the testimony of dr. Kupperman and ambassador bolton, let the record be clear this is the houses decision. So in effect we wait for the democrats to decide what to do next. Neal katyal, joyce vance, we thank both of you. Enjoy your weekends. We appreciate your time. And after the break, there was george pop dop laos, paul manafort, cohen, and Gordon Sondland. The president brings back his old i barely knew the guy defense. We knew it was coming. 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Republican lawmakers are going to the mats to protect donald trump from impeachment with House Minority leader Kevin Mccarthy announcing today that staunch trump defender jim jordan will be temporarily placed on the house intelligence committee, the one running the upcoming public hearings. Weve seen various and, at times, contradictory defenses from the president s party over the last month, including that made for tv moment, the stunt critics described it on october 14th when republicans marched right into that classified hearing room breaking up things during the middle of closeddoor testimony. Today with the release of fiona hills transcript, we got to see that confrontation. This is from the transcript. First from the chairman adam schiff. He asks do we have any members here that are not members of the three committees authorized to be present . Mr. Gaetz, referring to the Florida Republican and trump ally, you are not permitted to be in the room. To which gaetz replies i am on the Judiciary Committee. Schiff then says Judiciary Committee is not a part of this hearing. There is a little more back and forth. Mr. Gaetz, take your statement to the press. They do you no good here. So please absent yourself. Gaetz asks you are going to have someone remove me from the hearing, to which schiff responds you are going to remove yourself, mr. Gaetz. This is new reporting of the Washington Post of the latest strategy being deployed by the republican party. Mick mulvaney, ambassador to the e. U. Gordon sondland, and the president s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, under the bus saying they were acting on their own, not on the orders of the president. And it looks like trump is already using that tactic. Heres what he said about one of those men just this morning. Let me just say i hardly know the gentleman. But this is the man who said there was no quid pro quo. And he still says that. I hardly know the gentleman. Joining the table now reverend al sharpton, host of politicsnation here on msnbc. And the president of the National Action Network Aaron and the table are still with me as well. Rev, to you first. I barely knew this guy, he used it on paul manafort. He used it on Michael Cohen who he knew for years basically saying he was mostly a pr guy, not really a lawyer of mine. Used it on george papadopoulos. And now on Gordon Sondland. He spoke to multiple times over the last couple of years. This is a guy who donated a Million Dollars to his inauguration, and he is saying, yeah, i dont really know him. Well, if this continues you will hear him say he doesnt know eric and donald jr. This is donald trump. We know his character. He is going to try and distance himself from anyone. The facts though speak for themselves. Sondland could not have made those statements unless trump had said, in fact, what he said. And that the military aid was withheld. I mean, we can talk all day long about who knew howho. How was the military aid not given to ukraine . Who needed it . Russia couldve easily done things to them that they were concerned by the oh, so he can talk about who he knew or not knew. They are going to have to explain how the aid was held and that they knew the aid was going to be withheld until they capitulated with this demand about he wanting to see biden and his son investigate it. It was a real intimidation. It was extortion. We keep saying quid pro quo i can like thats too fancy. It was extortion. It was a shakedown. You do this or you dont get that. Thats exactly right. And to be clear here we have heard multiple times that the president describes the people like bill taylor whos one of the most celebrated seasoned veterans of american diplomacy for decades as a nevertrumper without evidence, about Alexander Vindman who he says is a nevertrumper. Kellyanne conway could not provide any evidence of that. He cant do that with Gordon Sondland. This guy is clearly not a nevertrumper. He gave money to the president. And about the relationship, here, shelby, is the close proximity between the two. This is from sondlands testimony. He was asked just generally while we are talking about phone conversations, how frequently do you speak with President Trump . Remember he said i barely knew the gentleman. Sondland answered i think i have spoken with President Trump maybe five or six times since ive been an ambassador. Just over a year ago. And i always called him. He never called me. But the president of the United States took his call repeatedly. Right. He talked about wishing him a merry christmas. He also talked about calling him and asking him what he wanted from ukraine. The two men certainly had a relationship. So i barely knew the guy, it also doesnt look like if you dont know your ambassador whos you appoint and want to represent your entire country in the european union. I made this point in the last block. But he also said he didnt know lev parnas who was Rudy Giulianis associate. And clearly lev parnas is upset about that. He spent the last three years of his life working to help trump, working to funnel money into the republican campaigns and also working to get out there and go to events and support him publicly. Aaron, let me pull up some of the Washington Post reporting here. And this is the idea that hill republicans, House Republicans specifically, are kind of throwing under the bus some of these key folks that surround the president for lack of any better way to kind of defend what he did here. Here is specifically what the post reports today. It said all three occupy a special place in the ukraine narrative. As republicans argue that most of the testimony against trump is based on faulty secondhand information, they are sowing doubts about the three, whether sondland, giuliani, and mulvaney were actually representing the president or freelancing to pursue their own agendas. The gop is effectively offering up the three to be fall guys. These guys are basically as close to the president on this issue as you can get. One is the acting chief of staff of the president of the United States. What do you make of this republican strategy . I think there is a very fine line here between saying that these people were pursuing their own agendas with regard to ukraine and saying that maybe there was some big misunderstanding here. I think that maybe the latter is a more attractive strategy here. It was the underpinnings of what Gordon Sondland said in his clarified testimony basically that this was his presumption that this was what the president wanted. I think its going to be difficult to thread that needle though because its going to require that these three men who are very proud men, very accomplished men, have done something wrong. You even saw in Gordon Sondlands testimony that he said that he didnt think that biden was related to burisma and that if he had Something Like that, could it even be illegal. In order for this to work, you need to have these three guys believe that theyre going to be okay if this is laying at their feet and that they are not going to come back at the president maybe disclose things that they know that they have not been willing to disclose. Im not sure that people like Rudy Giuliani, people like Mick Mulvaney who is not a trump loyalist and never really has been, are going to site down and be the fall guy for this. Aaron, thank you very much. After the break, donald trump may have thought he found his roy cohen and bill barr, especially in the aftermath of the russia investigation. But today are we seeing our first signs of strain in that once rocksolid relationship . Thousands of women with metastatic Breast Cancer, which is Breast Cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. Ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr her2 metastatic Breast Cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. Ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed disease progression versus letrozole, and shrank tumors in over half of patients. Patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. Ibrance may cause severe inflammation of the lungs that can lead to death. Tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including trouble breathing, shortness of breath, cough, or chest pain. 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If i ask bill barr to have a press conference, i think hes do it. But i never asked him to have a press conference. Why should i . And by the way i never asked him. I think if i did ask him, i havent said this yet, and i dont think i will. Im sure i wont. But if i asked him to have a press conference, i think he would. That was an exchange the president had earlier today. Thats his response for now i never asked him to have a press call, but if he did, hed do it. That both he and bill barr denied the story. Literally yesterday he said we both denied it today so now they havent actually said anything about it. But now reporting from the New York Times reports that communication might be showing signs of strain. Heres their quote. Mr. Trump angry with his coverage is aggravated with mr. Barr for urging him to release a reconstructed transcript of the telephone call with ukraines president at the center of the impeachment drive. That mr. Trump on that call lumped him together with Rudy Giuliani, the president s private lawyer like interchangeable parts of his personal defense team. Our whole team is back here at the table. And aaron blake joins us by satellite for the post right now. You make note of this that barr hasnt been shy about sticking his neck out for the president in the past. Youll remember the criticism he got following the Mueller Investigation for basically misframing the findings of Robert Muellers report here. Barr has been notably silent this time around and notably barrs own name was mentioned multiple times in that phone call. What do you make about the different circumstances and why this one is so different . Well, i think that there is a real motivation for the Justice Department to stay out of this one to the extent that they can, knowing that they might need to be involved later on. Even if youre bill barr and you really believe there was nothing wrong with that call, there is maybe nothing wrong with what the president or anybody else has done. The idea that you would come out at the front end and prejudge this i think is not exactly going to work in your favor. I think whats really interesting about that New York Times story is the idea, though, that President Trump is upset about bill barr telling him to release the rough transcript of the july 25th call with zelensky. The reason President Trump was so frustrated with Jeff Sessions had to do with the idea that sessions recused himself from the russia investigation, President Trump thought that exposed him to some problems that he wouldnt otherwise have been exposed to. If he harbors similar reservations about william barr potentially having exposed him to more problems because of the release of that transcript, thats a recipe for descension. He was fuming about the reporting between him and bill barr claiming that bill barr would totally hold a News Conference for me. Often times when i see a tweet storm that far kind, it reveals that there is some truth behind what hes so upset about. What do you make of it . I think it absolutely reveals there is some truth behind it. Ive always viewed the relationship between barr and trump in a specific sort of way. Ive never seen barr as someone who would defend trump because he was a trump loyalist. Ive always seen barr has someone who is defending a particular expanding of executive power. And trump just happened to be the person in the executive office. And so i can always find that there will be a moment, i think, where the limits of that argument are about the extent of executive power will run up against trumps behavior. So i think there is always a space between the two. And we may be seeing that now in the way this is playing out. You also, barr has to be offended given his background that hes being really outed as the president s lawyer. Because many of us said he was the roy cohn which is an insult to someone like him, as much as i disagree with him, that has a long very celebrated history in the legal community. And the telephone call where hes equated with Rudy Giuliani the personal attorney of the president makes him exactly rud, the personal attorney of the president , makes him exactly that. I think what a lot of people need to understand, the one who has now made him roy cohn is not the media, its donald trump. Because for him to stay to a head of state, you can either talk to my personal lawyer, this guy, like theyre the same thing is an offense to his background and to his office talking about the power of the executive. Its like hes not really the attorney general. You can talk to rudy or him. You can talk to joe or mike, it doesnt matter because both of them work for me. Thats what hes saying. Yeah, clearly, thats whats been frustrating william barr privately right now. Aaron blake, we thank you for spending some time with us today. After this break, Michael Bloomberg mulling a president ial run and the president says theres no one hed rather run against. A look at this potential matchup just as soon as we come back. Ap just as soon as we come back get 4 lines of unlimited with 4 iphone 11 included for only 35 a line. All on a signal that goes farther than ever before. Thats right. Get 4 unlimited lines and 4 iphone 11 for 35 a line. Only at tmobile. vo thewith every attempt, strto free itself,piders web. It only becomes more entangled. Unaware that an exhilarating escape is just within reach. Defy the laws of human nature. At the season of audi sales event. Oh no,. A cougher. Welcome to flu season, karen. Is a regular flu shot strong enough. To help prevent flu in someone your age . There are standarddose flu shots. And then theres the superior flu protection. 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Its gentle on her skin, and dermatologist recommended. Tide free gentle. Safe for skin with psoriasis and eczema. Of millions of americans during the recession. So, my wife kat and i took action. We started a Nonprofit Community bank with a simple theory give people a fair deal and real economic power. Invest in the community, in businesses owned by women and people of color, in affordable housing. The difference between words and actions matters. Thats a lesson politicians in washington could use right now. Im tom steyer, and i approve this message. Even before they need it. Need, with esri location technology, you can see what others cant. Trump says he wants to run the nation like hes running his business . God help us. Im a new yorker and i know a con when i see one. That was Michael Bloomberg making those comments at the Democratic National convention in 2016. And now, hes thinking about his own 2020 president ial bid. The former new york city mayor has said that hes worried that the current vifield of dem skro candidates doesnt have what it takes to beat truch. What bloomberg does have is money. Putting him at a whopping 52 billion with trump at just 1 billion. Im sure the president , if anything frustrates him, it will be seeing that statistic in his face for the next several months. Talking to a bloomberg aide earlier, he said bloomberg is a guy who is all act tbout the fa. Trump is a guy who is all about show. I think as a reporter who doesnt have a horse in this race, it would be fascinating to watch bloomberg enter this race. Hes talking about totally selffunding. No donation. No debates. Skipping early states. Whether or not someone like him could pull it off and i just think itd be really interesting to watch. Red liabilities for Michael Bloomberg . Hes got liabilities because of things like stop and frisk. Hes going to say i wrote the crime bill and Bernie Sanders voted for the crime bill. So if you give him a pass, you got to deal with me. And and i think its going to be an interesting debate. I i dont have a horse in the race. Ive talked to people close to bloomberg. We have to deal with the fact that occupy wall street was so important to the radicalization of the Progressive Movement within the Democratic Party and plus when we think about income inequality in the city of new york, bloomberg is at the center of that. Yeah, does a progressive now party want to have a billionaire if he top of their ticket . We wait to see. Were going to be right back. Ic . We wait to see were going to be right back when did you see the sign . When i needed to create a better visitor experience. Improve our workflow. Attract new customers. Thats when fastsigns recommended fleet graphics. Yeah, and now business is rolling in. Get started at fastsigns. Com. And now for their service to the community, we present limu emu doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] its an honor to tell you that Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. And now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. When youyou spend lessfair, and get way more. So you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. Com my thanks to reverend al sharpton, eddie gloud and shelby holiday. Thatll do it for us this hour. Im peter alexander. Nicolle is back in her chair on monday. Mtp daily with chuck todd begins right now. Ay mtp daily with chuck todd begins right now welcome to friday. Its meet the press daily and good evening. I am chuck todd here in washington. Got another busy day of developments in the impeachment investigation. New deposition transcripts from two Administration Officials who sounded the alarm inside the white house about the president s conduct with