To make a decision, and ive made that decision. And that decision will be what, senator . I will be voting no on judge kavanaugh. Amid the growing uproar from protesters, Chuck Schumer calling for the fbi background check to be made public. One, we had many fears that this was a very limited process that would constrain the fbi from getting all the facts. Having received a thorough briefing on the documents, those fears have been realized. Second, i disagree having received this briefing on all of the documents, i disagree with senator grassleys statement that there was no hint of misconduct. And third, we are reiterating our call, given how limited this these documents were and how limited the scope of this investigation was, we are reiterating our call that the documents with proper redaction be made public. Why shouldnt all of america see the facts. At this hour, were still waiting for official word on how collins, murkowski, flake and manchin plan to vote. The first procedural vote is tomorrow. And chairman Chuck Grassley announced today hed like to hold a final vote on kavanaughs confirmation on saturday. Here to discuss the days developments, some of our favorite reporters and friends. Garrett haake is on capitol hill with Kelly Odonnell joining us from the white house. Former u. S. Attorney and former senior fbi official chuck rosenberg, Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson is here. Kimberly atkins, now the Washington Bureau chief for the Boston Herald and nick confisore. Garrett, lets start with you. Weve seen protesters on capitol hill. Youve been reporting all week about how high the tensions are. Where do things stand this hour . Well, nicolle, the protest happening behind me and may make me hard to hear is by far the largest and most wellorganized protest against Brett Kavanaugh ive seen yet this week. Its really coming at the right time from the protesters perspective. After this announcement from Heidi Heitkamp of north dakota that shed vote no on kavanaughs confirmation. Gave really a boost of energy to the opposition here. The protesters are a few floors down from me. A huge cheer and round of applause in the direction of heitkamps office. Theyve been thanking her staff for her vote. In terms of the optics, this is all definitely audible to joe manchins staff and Lisa Murkowskis staff who are also in this building. You mentioned were still waiting on jeff flake and Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski on their votes. The jeff flake vote is, to me, the most interesting open question at this point. Remember, as of friday morning last week, he was a yes vote. And then he switched to wanting this fbi investigation. Between what we heard from him this morning, the idea that he appears at least initially satisfied with the fbi investigation, and his initial yes, the longer he goes without saying more, without coming out as a firm yes and without appearing in front of cameras, and believe me, weve been looking for him all day, that makes me think his support is maybe not as strong as it appeared last friday. So while things appear to be moving in the direction of a kavanaugh confirmation, most of the day here today, i wouldnt say the momentum has turned the opposite direction but its slowed down. Theres more of a question, despite the ticking clock towards that first vote tomorrow morning. Im a train wreck fan and recognize amy schumer there on the left. I want to bring kelly o. Into the conversation. Weve got collins, murkowski, flake, manchin and heitkamp who is a no vote. How many more votes can kavanaugh lose and still get confirmed . He can lose two and then mike pence would break the tie. So if manchin if manchin holds, and i think its probably more likely than not he does. I have a hard time seeing joe manchin being the only democratic no vote. That gets us back to a situation where one of these republicans can still vote no and mike pence could break the tie. So you still need two of these republicans to come over to no votes to stop this thing. Kelly o. , bring us up to speed on what youre hearing. Youve got great sources on both ends of pennsylvania avenue. What do you know . Some interesting things to look at are some of the dynamics here. Joe manchin, democrat of West Virginia, will not, i am told, make his position known until tomorrow. So he will not do what height heitkamp is and put the pin in the balloon and end the speculation. Theres a lot of pressure on joe manchin in a way thats different than what we saw with Heidi Heitkamp and its this. Joe manchin has been very popular in his home state. A former governor who has now been in the september for a couple of terms. Hes in a tough race as well this november against the states attorney general patrick morrisey. President trump has been to West Virginia seven times in the time that hes been in office. Brought a lot of pressure there. It is also notable that manchin and flake are good friends across the aisle. You could almost imagine a scenario where jeff flake decides hes voting no but manchin would be a yes. Or youd have the combination where murkowski could be a no and shes got reasons that have to do with alaskas native American Community and judge kavanaughs record on federal lands and sovereignty as an issue. Thats not the thing we talk about typically in National News but in alaska, native american sovereignty, incredibly important. And so theres a dynamic amongst this remaining group that is both political and personal. And we dont yet know if theyre sharing their strategy but that is often the case in the final hours where if one person sort of needs to take the lead politically and do something risky, they may do it knowing they have cover from someone else. For example, if flake has to vote no for his conscience perhaps but he doesnt want to be a conservative who tanks this nomination, he might try to have the friendship of a democrat across the aisle vote in his place. You know how that sort of math could work out. We dont have answers to this yet, but thats some of the pressure thats being brought to bear. And for your People Magazine moment, amy schumer is a cousin of Chuck Schumer. Theres a Family Connection there as well. It all comes back to six degrees of separation, eugene. Kelly o. Is talking about alaska. Of course, having been a palin staffer, i know all about sovereignty in the state of alaska and state politics. I did not know that Chuck Schumer and amy schumer were related. What is this moment . We see passions on the left here. We see protesters coming out. It looks like the protest after on the day of the inauguration. This looks like the same nerve thats been struck. But on the other hand, all signs indicate from collins and flakes Public Statements about the fbi report that it gave them, perhaps, the justification to be a yes vote on kavanaugh. Yeah, totally just heard garretts caution there. My assumption all day has been hes going through. Hes going to get confirmed. I am very skeptical that joe manchin would be vote number 50 to put him over the top. But assuming that only maybe only flake decides of the republicans decide he cant vote for kavanaugh and everybody else holds, then its 50 50. Pence breaks a tie. And in that scenario, i could see manchin voting for him because it because it wouldnt matter in a sense. Hed get through anyhow. I dont think hed be forgiven by the Democratic Party for being the vote that put kavanaugh over the top. Kimberly, i can speak to the split screen moment. Weve had so many of them since Donald Trumps ascension in american politics but this is undoubtedly yet another. What were seeing is outside of this confirmation process. This sort of, you know, open bare knuckled partisan fight that has gender battles in it, that has classism in it and the patriarc patriarchy. It means so much more. I and other journalists have been hearing for weeks now from women who call me and email me just to tell me their stories of Sexual Assault and how appalled they are at how the women who are coming forward are being treated. Whether you believe them or not or believe judge kavanaugh or not, thats an aside. Its the treatment of these women and this idea at the president and others are saying this is a dangerous time for men when they say this has been a dangerous time for women for a long time. And at that other side of it, you see people who are tagging democrats saying all they want to do is keep this seat open. So were seeing all of these politics play out. And the Cultural Divide play out over this Supreme Court nominee is really extraordinary. Can you think of a time, chuck, when the fbi has been thrust into the middle of a moment that Kimberly Atkins just accurately described . Not quite like this, nicolle. Thats what pains me. The last thing the fbi wants to be is in the middle of politics. And here, i know im afraid, i dont predict a lot of things, but i predicted from the outset they were in a box. And that if their investigation was circumscribed, then theyd be blamed for not doing a full investigation. Right. And that is exactly where they find themselves. And so its deeply unfortunate. Its not where they want to be. And i cant think of a parallel. Do you think the fact that collins and flake came out and said that what theyd seen in the report was satisfies to them, that was the word they used, what does that mean about the report . That seems to indicate it was good information for kavanaugh. Probably, nicolle. It probably means it was at least more corroborative of what he claimed happened or didnt happen than what dr. Ford claimed. But hes claiming, as you just said, you were trying to prove a negative with him. Im guessing they had more character accounts. Im just trying to understand what the substance of the investigation was. When ford spoke to the Washington Post, she called for an investigation into her allegations, which would have required that kind of long lead. Much broader. Right. So did they have the time to do the kind of investigation ford was calling for or did they simply go out and find more character witnesses for kavanaugh . Well, they certainly had the time. Remember, they have 13,000 agents. Its not like two folks driving around the country in a beatup ford trying to track down witnesses. The fbi has the capacity to do this. They didnt have the authority. And so im not if they ask for a deadline, if they say wed like this back by friday, that part doesnt trouble me but imagine a bank robbery where you had five tellers and they said pick three. You can talk to any three but not the other two. Thats not how you do investigations. Frank figliuzzi, can you hear us . Do we have frank up yet . I sure can. Frank, can you pick up this thread and talk about this is something youve been sounding the alarm on. If it turns out they didnt have the authority, that would be more indicative hough this was going to turn out than capacity or intellect or ability. It seems like thats exactly where weve landed. Yeah, this certainly appears to be the case that the constraints were so tight that were left reportedly, if accurate, with nine or ten interviews perhaps. And as chuck said, thats not how you do this. Lets talk about the most routine of applicant investigations. Someone is applying to be an fbi agent. You go out and do the background. The candidate has given you the name of all their friends and loved ones who will say great things and be references for them. Your job is is to talk to them and at the end say, who else should i talk to . Who doesnt like this candidate . Thats your job. Essentially what sounds like has happened is the white house said talk to the references. Talk to the ones that arent going to tell us the bad things and only do that. For me, this is an institutional moment for the fbi, for director chris wray, its a damned if you do, damned if you dont. Damned if you follow the written rules, damned if he doesnt come out and ask for more. Damned if he doesnt give a statement, heres how we do backgrounds and damnede if he doesnt call for reform and the client relation and comes out and does that. This is a conundrum im sure that has people sequestered on the seventh floor of the hoover building. One more follow up to both of you. Professor fords attorney is out with a pretty damning statement about todays fbi. Fords attorney saying, the investigation conducted over the past five days is a stain on the proer process, on the fbi and on our american ideal of justice. You first, frank. Well, look, its the fbi motto is fidelity, bravery, integrity. And the question is, the fbi is filled with excellent rule followers. They do the right thing. As chuck said, they do not want to be in the limelight. They do not want to be in politics but this is where they are right now. So the decision is, what does fiddle uelit fidelity, bravery and integrity mean right now. Does the director need to make a statement . Will he respond to congressional questions . This is a painful, painful moment for the fbi. Ill put you on the spot, chuck. Does he need to respond to questions . Does he need to respond to professor fords attorney who says the past five days are a stain on the process, on the fbi and our american ideal of justice . First, does chris wray need to Say Something . He needs to Say Something to his people, to the fbi. Because they watch the news, too. And theyre all over the world. And so i would think at the very least, youd want to go out and in some way, in an allhands email and say, look, heres what happened. Heres what we did. Heres why i did what we did. Here was my decisionmaking process. I think thats imperative. Whether or not he makes a Public Statement is much more difficult because, again, to franks point, whatever he says can be turned against the fbi. So theres communicating to your own people which is very important. And theres that much more difficult decision about it communicating externally. And he did that at one other point either after the mccabe firing. There was one other flash point in this presidency where he did find it imperative. Frank is right. The men and women of the fbi are extraordinary. And they dont want to be in this position and they do want to hear from their leadership. They want to understand what the thinking is. They may disagree. They may agree. They want to feel like good guys. Ive covered the fbi long enough they want to feel like theyre on the just side of things. I wonder if this whole episode has made them question that. They know why theyre there and what they do. This is a different thing. This is not a place where they want to be. This is not a place where theyre comfortable. Because this is politics. And, frankly, fbi doesnt do politics. And they dont do it well. So i hope i hope that chris wray communicates with his people because they need to hear from him. Kelly odonnell, thank you for your great reporting. If you have anything else in the next hour, please jump back in front of that camera for us. Wed love to hear from you. When we come back, the debate over who benefits pllly fr politically from the kavanaugh fight. How strategists on both sides of the growing partisan divide see the emotional debate over kavanaugh shaping the midterms. Brandnew reporting from the Washington Post about white House Counsel don mcgahns last stand. Unceremoniously shown the door by donald trump on twitter weeks ago, mcgahn is working feverishly behind the scenes to reshape the Supreme Court on his way out. That story is next. Insurance that wont replace the full value of your new car . Youd be better off throwing your money right into the harbor. Im gonna regret that. With Liberty Mutual new car replacement well replace the full value of your car. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty where were changing withs . Contemporary makeovers. Then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. Who has the upper hand now . Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com. We are watching those kavanaugh protests on capitol hill and new reporting in the Washington Post from our friend robert costa on white House Counsel don mcgahn. He reports white House Counsel don mcgahn grumbled to his friends in late august that his expected exit was announced by President Trump on twitter without even a warning. Don was surprised and a little annoyed but eventually shrugged it off, said a person close to mcgahn. It seems like the last little bump in the road. But then there was a car wreck ahead. That car wreck was the kavanaugh nomination fight. The post goes on to weapon tempers have flared in the fallout over the allegations against kavanaugh. Both inside the administration and on capitol hill. Where mcgahns tight grip over the fbis investigation of fords claims have sparked sharp questions from both parties about the increased scope and extent to which the white house is limiting the probe. Washington post National Political reporter robert costa joins the conversation now. Robert, its an incredible piece of reporting about someone at the center of so many of these central story lines. Our friends at the New York Times reported it was mcgahn who spent 30 hours interviewing with the special counsel. Mcgahn at the center of the kavanaugh pick, his selection. He fought for it, championed him and kavanaugh has become increasingly embattled, your reporting suggests hes held on even tighter to this process and hes taking it from all ends inside the west wing, including from the president. Tell us about that. Hes such an important player. And he gets very little attention because you never see don mcgahn on television. You dont see him behind President Trump in camera shots or on air force one. You have a lawyer here who is an ideologue, a conservative who worked for president bush in the 2000s as a member of the federal election commission, eventually chaired the fec and now wants to install a second justice on the Supreme Court for President Trump. Hes running the fbi investigation on the white house side. Coordinating with Senate Majority leader mitch mcconnell. This is the power broker but a quiet one. And what is at the center of the tension between mcgahn and the president . There are multiple reasons they have tension. But the big one, of course, is the russia investigation. As you said, mcgahn has been a cooperating witness for robert mueller. The special counsel. And you also have mcgahn being someone who has clashed with the president over the department of justice. The president has, at times, recommended sweeping dramatic action be taken at doj. Going as far as to maybe get rid of top doj officials. Mcgahn has always pulled him back or tried to from some of those decisions. And thats caused the tension. Let me ask you, do you see kavanaughs confirmation in stronger standing today than it has been since friday . It is certainly improved today because of the response from republican senators. And mcgahn walking them through it all over the last few days. Mcgahn even talking to senators like chris coons, a delaware democrat, and this whole process playing out that a lot of republicans just wanted to check a box with fbi investigation and the extent of it was really not a huge debate inside of the gop conference in the same way it was for democrats. If don mcgahn gets two Supreme Court justices on the bench for donald trump before his first midterms, certainly before the first two years are over, how is he among the people like Rex Tillerson who were fired on twitter . Mcgahn was almost really fired on twitter. He had the president announcing his dismissal without mcgahn knowing. Hes not really close with the president at all times but sometimes personal relationships dont matter in politics. What matters is the power. Mcgahn knows how to navigate power in washington. The court potentially tilting to the right for generations and the conservative legal establishment in this country now having immense influence with President Trump. So its important to remember while don mcgahn and President Trump dont always get along, they are a pact. They have a pact together, a partnership thats going to change this country and already has in many respects. Nick, Robert Costas reporting is so illuminating in this that donald trump accomplishments dont matter. Its not a meritocracy because mcgahn has accomplished more than anybody neelse in the west wing. If kavanaugh goes through as youre suggested the response from these senators is they have what they need in this fbi report, hell have done more to reshape the court than in quick more quickly than anyone in history, yet hes on his way out. Shaping the courts is perhaps the most important thing that trump has done in office. On much to tax reform. Its the most longlasting thing hes done. It will affect conservatives for generations and generations, but it was always an alliance of convenience. Not one based on mutual beliefs or longstanding held beliefs by donald trump. Was what was the price of admission to the gop club in washington and the price of the alliance with them. This is it. And mcgahn is the guy who delivered it. But and mitch mcconnell. That will be part of mcgahns legacy. But if it turns out, as we suspect, that on his way out, don mcgahn squashed the fbi investigation of his good friend Brett Kavanaugh so he wouldnt find out anything bad, that will be another part of don mcgahns legacy and also a rallying point for democrats in the midterms. Its also been reported, by your paper, that he spent at least 30 hours talking to robert mueller. So its a complicated very complicated. At best. Mcgahn is so essential and we talk so little about him, but is there concern that if he had that role if he is someone who at least understands if he doesnt always prevail, the importance of the rule of law and that relationship between the counsels office and the Justice Department, what happens if he leaves, when he leaves . Right. So i mean, were all fungible. Everyone can be replaced. It seems to me, as an outsider, that hes played a very Important Role in this white house. And maybe has acted at times as a governor or break on some of the president s worst instincts. Weve heard stories about mcgahn stepping in to prevent the president from firing certain people. Mueller. Mueller, for example. Sessions. Just a couple. Rod. And a wild coincidence, those are the three i had in mind. And thats probably why the Mueller Team Spent a lot of time speak with him because there are probably more. More than that. And it seems like he has been thoughtful part of this. Robert, can you just pick up on chuck rosenbergs point that he has those relationships with sessions and Deputy Attorney general rosenstein and he threatened to fire, quit if donald trump fired mueller. Can you talk about we overuse this idea of a guard rail but hes been someone inside the white house who has used whatever capital he has to warn the president about some of his most reckless impulses when it comes to the russia probe. Franks points were so interesting because he is a guardrail inside the white house and some of the president s decisionmake, but mcgahn advocated internally against cooperate with mueller at this level. And to exert more executive privilege at the start. That was against what dowd and cobb wanted. Mcgahn put his head down and said ill go talk to mueller. Ill do it. Base od my reporting, even though mcgahn didnt want to go talk to mueller for 30plus hours, he did. As much as hes a conservative and a partisan, at his core, mcgahn, he cooperated because he has a lawyer. He has a duty to the law to answer questions frankly from federal investigators. So thats whats made him somewhat of a ghost in this west wing. People who know mcgahn say he may not like cooperate with mueller but he did. He probably told federal investigators everything because he knows his law license, his reputation, its all on the line if you even go off. We want to know what everything is. Hopefully some day well learn. Robert costa, glad to have you. Thanks for spending some time with us. Our cameras just caught up with senator joe manchin. Is he still undecided . Garrett haake asked him. Well play you his answer after the break. Ignition sequence starts. 10. 9. Guidance is internal. 6. 5. 4. 3. 2. 1. To put on our website . I mean i would have but im a commercial vehicle so i dont have hands. Or a camera. Or a website. Should we franchise . Is the market ready for that . Can we franchise . How do you do that . Meg oh meg we should do that thing where you put the business cards in the fishbowl and somebody wins something. Meg hi. Im here for. Im here for the evans wedding. Weve got the cake in the back, so, yeah. Meg thank you. Progressive knows Small Business makes big demands. Youre not gonna make it, youre not gonna make it ask her if we can do her next wedding too so well design the insurance solution that fits your business. On second thought, dont. Ask that. 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Ill go back from what youve seen before, does it seem like the fbi talked to everyone they needed to . Are you comfortable with the scope . Ive only gotten through about half of it. Garrett haake, not much to read through those tea leaves. What did you hear . I heard someone very uncomfortable with making a decision at this point. Joe manchin has tried to not get pinned down on how hell vote on this nomination. This is no exception. Hes setting himself up to be the last senator who announced his decision saying hes not even done reviewing the documents until tomorrow morning. Senators have been trading off time here today. Not necessarily a reason that would take until tomorrow morning unless youre joe manchin and you do not want to be the deciding vote here. And you want to try to come across the finish line potentially after kavanaughs either at 50 votes or definitely not getting 50 votes to minimize your political exposure here a little bit. That being said, i dont want to totally impugn his motives. Its 46 pages of documents. A lot to go over. Hes not on the committee so hes not been involved in these discussions up to this point. But there you saw a senator who does not want to be pinned down before he absolutely has to. Garrett, how do they change so much from aing week ago. During professor fords testimony she was so gripping and compelling that donald trump watched her and had that reaction. How are we talking about a democrat that may actually vote for kavanaugh . I think theyre sort of back to the politics are back to where they would have been before dr. Ford came forward. Before that, you had three democrats who voted for neil gorsuch who were thought to be in play here who might find is advantageous in a tough reelection fight to make this vote. You can make the argument that some of those senators, including manchin, probably wanted to get to yes. I remember him telling me when kavanaughs name was first announced he was going to go back to West Virginia and talk to his constituents about it. His constituents overwhelmingly supported donald trump in the last election. They were lubl to iable to be t him to support this nominee. Thats a big part of it. Also weve seen just this enormous explosion around this. This is the only game in town in washington right now and its forced people to make choices that otherwise you can never really go under the radar with a Supreme Court pick but everybody is being backed into a corner of where they want to go. Manchins whole reputation is built on being the democratic senator who republicans can work with. That still includes issues like this. I i agree with everything that garrett is saying, and i hear it, but i cant believe it. I cant believe that a democrat a week after that testimony and in sort of the throes of the culture moment were living in for women with accounts of what she just described, women calling you, Sexual Assault, because with all that in the water, i cant believe theres a democrat that may be a yes vote on kavanaugh, or two. I dont think hes going to be the deciding vote, manchin. I do think that jeff flake has shrewdly boxed in democratic colleagues, very shrewdly. They asked for an investigation. He gave them one. What you see now these last few days is this is a fight over process, not details. Not substance. Its about facts that arent known instead of facts that are known. Once they push the conversation in that direction, i think it was over for the democrats and a go for kavanaugh. Its interesting to me also, eugene, that while they had him friday, sort of successfully, if you look at their Political Goals being to build support around hitting a longer pause button or expanding the scope of the investigation, they had raised questions about his whether he was telling the truth in his testimony. If you look at where we were a week ago, there were questions about whether he committed whether he told the truth when he testified. And there still are. Undeniably powerful and credible account from professor ford. Its remarkable that six days, seven days later were talking about which democrats are yes . They hit the pause button. But what do you do with that pause . Who was in charge during that pause . It was the white house in charge. Senate republicans in charge. Democrats had no input into how this was done. And so the investigation was framed so narrowly just about, i dont know. Just about what dr. Ford said during part of her testimony. It was so narrowly focused and so limited that all the rest of that just sort of evaporates. And it goes away. But about manchin listen to gene right now. This conversation right now. Hes an eloquent person, stating it well but how power civil that compared to the testimony. Its not going to push republicans at all. I dont think for manchin, i think his calculation might be different now that Heidi Heitkamp has come out and said she will not. I think thats powerful. And i think that puts additional pressure on manchin, even if hes not the pivotal vote. I think it becomes harder for him to vote for kavanaugh. Im not buying the kavanaugh bounce, if you will. I think the same people that were likely to vote in midterms for republicans are still likely to vote in midterms for republicans and the same people that were energized because of their feelings about donald trump are still more likely to vote for democrats. And i think that this whole idea that this issue has sort of turned this back in the republicans favor is lunacy. The senate was always barely in reach for democrats. Maybe, maybe not. The house was always more likely to be something they could take over. But this narrative is sinking in that because of Brett Kavanaugh and the fight and donald trump talking about a scary moment this is for men, democrats blew it. I dont see it. I dont either. This was largely a defensive move. Republicans were saying they were afraid that backing away from kavanaugh would cause the base to revolt against republicans. They didnt. I blinked. I missed it. The Democratic Energy is still there. Thats not been diminished. I think weve seen an increase in Republican Base energy as well. But i think what the longterm calculation were seeing here is whatever potential shortterm peril or benefit on the republican side, depending on who you ask if you measure it against what could be the longterm blowback, if you look at history, republicans and democrats, whether its bill clinton, whether its Clarence Thomas and others, by and large, they were not hurt in the long run by these allegations by women. I think that people think when women make these allegations against a man in power, in the long run, the men tend to win. Joe biden has gotten away really not really feeling the effect of his role in the anita hill hearings. History gives republicans every reason to believe in the long run this is going to be a win. We may see a difference heading out of this in the midterms and beyond. But i think republicans think history is on their side. If you want to be just machiavellian about this, i think if you want to sustain any political advantage to the midterms, you should lose this fight. And keep that sort of smoldering anger and activism that comes out of that anger. Keep that alive. It looks likely, i think, that that will be more alive among democrats right now than among republicans. It certainly would be among republicans if he gets rejected. I think it will be a rallying cry and i think it will bring more people out. How do you keep it alive . After yes, after anita hill, there was the year of the woman. We saw some women get elected to congress. Its still a white male pa patriarchy here. Im talking a matter of weeks. Im not talking like getting rid of the patriarchy. Its hard to stay angry if your side is winning. And if they get kavanaugh in, the anger on the right is not going to be as strong as the anger on the left. The anger on the left is really strong. What do you think the impact is of sort of treating i talked i watched on thursday with Brian Williams and talked about the human carnage. My reaction as a human being was to sit there and watch these two human beings with family members up there in the senate whose lives had been destroyed. What is the fallout and where we are if all this human carnage is just baked in now. This time of trump. Her life is rinneuined. She tells this wrenching story. No one believes her. It is so dehumanizing to have these conversations. Where are we . Thats the tough question people are saying. Were at a place where people are in the streets yes again protesting because what they see is has a fundamental sense of unjustment. Look, im not to say that i dont hear from women who say they are fearful of their sons that theyll be accused of something. As pointed out even by senator sasse. Why cant we have two thoughts in our human being. We value due process for men and women and human beings who listen to a credible account and say lets have the fbi, all 13,000 of them go check that out. Why cant we hold two thoughts in your head anymore . In this political, polarized, political environment, we cannot. I hope that we that people, citizens, can have that in their communities and their households and elsewhere in their churches but in the senate, that is not a place that that can happen right now. Not in this partisan environment. Do you see a direct line between the daily assault on the rule of law, on the fbi, on the intelligence community, on the deep state, and people feeling like this fbi no one thinks no one on the left thinks this fbi report is on the up and up. And everyone on the right is going to use it to vote for kavanaugh. So, yes, but the fbi report, whatever it may be, however long it may be, however many people they may have spoken to, is on the up and up. But the agents were told, they recorded what they the 302s. But you know thats not what im asking about. Im asking if the scope of the investigation. And thats where i was going to go to. Im sorry i took a while to get there. Part of the problem. Sound bites. Make it fast and make it smart, right . Take uppior time. We just blew up a commercial for you. I do slow and stupid, not good at fast and smart. Human xanax. So the report itself is true. Its faithful. Its what they were told. But its never going to be enough. And thats the problem. Again, thats the box the fbi is in. Thats the bigger point here that their work isnt trusted or at least its not trusted by enough people. So let me move lets make people feel better. So what they are reading in that room, these are interviews. And they oare theres no reason to doubt them. But the scope of the investigation that will go on, thats a legitimate again, whether, and i dont believe this but ill just say it, whether the fbi should have bucked the system, whether they should have refused to do what the president or don mcgahn asked them to do and gone and interviewed everyone they wanted to or would have interviewed had it been a criminal investigation. But thats not the rule of law either. Thats the box. If we expect the fbi to be faithful and brave and men and women of integrity like frank said earlier, then we also expect them to follow the rules. The rule is, talk to the people we tell you to talk to. Theres the thats the dilemma. Thats the chain of command and the discomfort of having someone like donald trump sit atop it. At least for me. Its whiplash, though. A few weeks ago, according to the president , we were supposed to believe that the fbi was a cesspool of politics. I dont think its been weeks. These are like dog years. Its only been a few days im sure. Now were supposed to believe, the fbi says, we have to believe it. So i know. Here we go. Coming up, well switch gears. A National Security threat collides with the mueller investigation. Stay with us. A onceinfive hundred year storm should happen every five hundred years, right . Fact is, there have been twentysix in the last decade. Allstate is adapting. With drones to assess home damage sooner. And if a flying object damages your car, you can snap a photo and get your claim processed in hours, not days. Plus, allstate can pay your claim in minutes. Now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . door bell rings its ohey. This is amazing. With moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay . Even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. So i talked to my doctor about humira. I learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications havent worked well enough. And it helps people achieve control that lasts. So you can experience few or no symptoms. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you, and them. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, control is possible. A new twist connected to Robert Muellers russia investigation. The Justice Department today indicting seven russian officers on charges related to cyberwarfare. Their alleged activities connected to russias doping scandal. Three of them are also on the list of russians indicted in Robert Muellers russian meddling investigation. Frank figliuzzi is still here. Frank, this was a story put on my radar by chuck rosenberg. Weve been dying to ask you about it all day. Tell us about the significance of this and what does it tell us about what russia is up to while were busy fighting each other to death over domestic politics . Well, first, welcome to the new breed of espionage today. The spies arent now wearing cloaks and daggers, theyre sitting in front of computer screens. And some of these very same people that were indicted in this hacking operation are the same people that putin used to and were indicted by mueller for hacking involving the russia investigation. So this is what this is how its going to play out from now on. This is the new battlefield, cyber. So were dealing with a country that is incredibly sophisticated. You know, a lot of folks say its china, china, china on the cyberscene. But russia is more sophisticated and more willing and able to use cyber as needs. And thats whats going on here. They got angry they got caught doping in the olympics, they lashed out at the olympic organizations in the u. S. And abroad and then they went even further and started to hack Nuclear Organizations and also looking at the poisons and toxins that have been used to assassinate people. So, while our president , our president meets with putin, oneonone, doesnt give us the details of the meeting, the reality is that putin is very much engaged in operations against us. Very much putin against the world when it comes to cyber. Let me press you on that. So, donald trump stands next to putin and says, why wouldnt i believe his account, admiral rogers, when he was head of the nsa, in a very exasperated manner talks about not having all the authorities he needs to do his job to fight against the russians. Christopher wraych thes s testifies that hes not been directed to do more than what hes been doing before. We have cabinet officials testifying under oath theyre not being able to toughen up our defenses. Are we at risk because of President Trumps posture on putin . I think president putin feels like hes got free rein. Hes got license to do what he wants to do, and i dont think he expects retaliation from the white house. So, what i would expect under normal circumstances, is for a statement from the white house, from cia director, from state department, from the dni and sanctions to be considereds i would expect congress to start investigating and endorsing sanctions, but were not yet there, and the American People need to understand the cold war is not over, by any stretch. Talks about what congress should be doing, all i can do is the republican chair of the House Intel Committee probably spent his weekend drafting new articles for the Deputy Attorney general. They are railing against the people who are trying to protect us. And disclosing our secrets. Im going toe try to put this in context without putting people to sleep. You never do. When chairman nunez puts out fisa materials and we scream about the effect it may have, its a very real fear. Heres why i say that. In the press release the department of justice put out today to accompany this indictment, and i think frank is spot on, this is a big, big deal, we thanked the dutch intelligence service, the Swiss Intelligence Service and the British Intelligence service. We work with our allies and even some of our not so allies around the world regularly, sharing very sensitive information, and they give it to us and we give it to them because we trust one another. And if they see our stuff going into the public sphere for partisan political purposes, maybe we dont make cases like this. Maybe our next indictment doesnt thank the dutch, and the british and the swiss because they dont want to be part of this and dont want to share their stuff with us. Or they dont want the president to out the intel in a meeting with a russian Prime Minister in the oval office. Or to yield to devin nunez, who wants to overrule the fbi director. And thats why we protect the stuff. Were not just protecting our stuff, were protecting the stuff of our friends, too. And incidentally, and this is true in both Law Enforcement and intelligence, when our officers, be they agents or cia case officers, try to get people to talk to us, or to even become assets, right, to join us in a sense, its only happens if they trust that they will protect them. If we dont have credibility with our partners around the world, we dont get this stuff and maybe we dont make these cases. It seems like another example of this twotract presidency, that woodward writes about, that others have reported on, that there are these adults, whatever you want to call them, who are continuing to nurture these relationships with our allies, and then theres the president. Look, this country is in a cyber war with russia right now. They are currently, actively involved in the midterms on social media, they are even trolling the kavanaugh debate. They are out there, they are doing this. And while we have done sanctions on the russians, and we see the twotrack presidency, there is a lot more we could be doing or considering doing. There are resources we have that as far as i can see are not being deployed, and there are questions about how aggressively we are using capacities we have to fight back. And its because the president is not putting out the signal and prioritizing it. You have to lead from the top on these things. And is there resistance on the tone he sets when hes in front of the world, standing next to vooladimir putin . Theres no push. Theres no direction. We have to sneak in our last break. Well be right back. K. Well be right back. Quick, the quicker picker upper bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. Bounty, the quicker picker upper. On a budget . Try bounty essentials. Its a revolution in sleep. The new sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now, from 899, during sleep numbers fall sale. It senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. It even helps with this. So you wake up ready to put your pedal to the metal. And now, during our fall sale weekend special, the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is only 899. Plus, 24month financing and free home delivery. Ends monday. Sleep number. Proven, quality sleep. Your insurance rates a scratch so smallr you could fix it with a pen. How about using that pen to sign up for new insurance instead . For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise their rates because of their first accident. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. We let our friend robert costa go too soon. He tweeted this. The view inside gop that postnovember elections things k0u8d get wild. House could flip, Mueller Report expected, subpoenas could start flying. Different players have Different Levels of visibility into these possibilities, but the tensions and desire to confirm kavanaugh are ubiquitous. Its going to get worse . All of us just exhaled at this table. Oh gosh. What do you think . I think hes probably right. Look, i think by next week, were going to be talking about something else, and that is just the new normal in this new political environment. Its breathless. Frank, are you still with us . We lost frank. I want to ask you, the idea of subpoenas flying, are the democrats up to the task . Do you think theyre going to have to focus their efforts or is everything going to be on the table . Well, look. If democrats take the house, there will be a bunch of Committee Chairs who will each have their investigations they want to launch, so, it will be all over. And the idea that things are going to get crazier after the election just depresses me to no end. Because were trying to get to the election. Well, i worked in the white house with a democratcontrolled house, henry waxman subpoenaed my emails around the energy task force, i mean, i turned over my emails as a white house staffer multiple times. Do you think the white house is equipped for what would come if the dems take over the house . I dont know that any white house is fully equipped for what might come. You know as well as anybody on this planet how difficult it can be to be in any place thats under scrutiny, even if you did nothing wrong. We dont think thats the case here. I have a contrary view. I think in general, in this era, term of divided government, there is more emotional stability in washington. The factors are different. Its the one party rule periods where one party just jams things that all the energy is repressed and gets extraordinary. So, youre telling me ill be happier, i wont need maybe. You made me feel better. Thanks to chuck, eugene, kim and nick. That does it for our hour. Im nicolle wallace. Mtp daily starts right now. Hello, chuck. Happy thursday. Happy thursday. Persevering. All right, if its thursday, the fbi report is out. But how many senators are in . Good evening. Im chuck todd here in washington. Welcome to mtp daily. We begin tonight wit