The idea of possibliy resigning. Whats unclear is how serious that was. Whether he said Something Like i am willing to resign if the president wants me to or whether he said i intend to resign and im going to do it on monday. We dont know the exact nature of those conversations. Eli, i want to hear about your reporting. I want to show our viewers what phil rucker is talking about. Lets watch. I have a message for the president tonight. Under zero circumstances should the president fire anybody. If you are laying a trap for donald trump, this might be exactly how youd do it. Okay, professor, what will President Trump do now . Well, if hes smart, hell take advantage of this and not fire either any of these people, not mueller, not rosenstein, and not sessions. So this is important point because i think a lot of people are really scared after the rosensteins people to come out and say, he expects to be fired. His people were putting that out to what end, we dont know at this point but certainly today for all the claims the president having a really busy schedule. He was free today between 9 30 and 2 15. Almost two hours he spent at trump tower. He was on the phone with kelly and talking to rosenstein during that time. And this is a man who, as we know, for all the reputation that he loves to fire people, he doesnt like to do it in person. And so the idea that hes putting this off, he had this opportunity today while out of town. If he wanted to do it, didnt take it and then is going to go back thursday to washington and meet with him. Its impossible to predict what this president will and wont do. Based on precedent, we know he generally sh lly shies Away Frot Confrontation and firing people face to face. The substance of this got lost. The substance of the report that Rosenstein May or may not have offered to resign over was as early as may of 2017, 16 months before the unanimous oped shows up in the new york times, a Cabinet Official was talking about invoking the 25th Amendment and bringing other Cabinet Officials along to that judgment. And offered to wear a wire to expose the chaos in the white house. He should have worn one today because the white house looked chaotic today. Back to the substance of this. The substance of What Rosenstein was reported to have been concerned about in may of 2017 lines up with the omarosa book. Lines up with the unanimous oped and every page of the Woodward Book and seems to be another pillar in this picture that from the inside, the Trump Presidency is much more alarming than what we see from the outside. That the substance of that report was three weeks into rosensteins time at Deputy Attorney general. He had exposure to him in two big instances. The dealings around the comey firing and the second was his dealings with the president when he sat in on all the interviews for potential fbi directors. If you read the story, one thing people missed in the substance of that story was the takeaway was that Rod Rosenstein was really having a tough time. And whether he was serious or not in his remarks about the 25th Amendment, whether he was serious or not in his remarks about wearing the wire, he was a person in some ways a ship without port. Was not sure where to go. You worked in the Justice Department. I worked in the white house. I attended a lot of nsc meetings. We made jokes. You dont put in a memo, jokes. That is not a suggestion that a Deputy Attorney general who really is in control of the situation makes in a serious manner because its never going to happen. But i Dont Think He was joking. The takeaway is he was not in control of the situation at the time. Hes faced a few tests, more than any Deputy Attorney general in the history with the possible exception during watergate. He failed the first one when he wrote the comey memo. Eight days later, another one, and he passed when he appointed bob mueller. Hes facing the next big test. Will he step down quietly or if trump really wants to get rid of him, will he make him fire him . Its a critical test for his legacy and independence of the Justice Department. It would be a massive step for him to step down voluntarily now. Talk to me about the idea of wearing a wire. Thats also in the report and if hes offered to resign or fired, that was also the substance of what that story revealed, that in the spring of 2017, in this period of time before mueller was appointed, when they were Interviewing Candidates for fbi director. Ive talked to some people who interviewed for that job. A couple pulled themselves out of contention. It was a chaotic time for this white house. He suggested that one of the candidates going in and wear a wire. Why would you do that . Prosecutors, fbi agents, cops, the only time they talk about wearing a wire is when its against a bad guy. So understand the gravity of the Deputy Attorney general of the United States actually verbalizing, even if in jest, the possibility that he might wear a wire against the president of the United States in the oval office. And what that means about the viewers of all the bleep hes put up with. Hes got an entire House Republican caucus thats drafted in articles of impeachment for him. He faces abuse every time hes on capitol hill. Trying to release unredacted memos with State Secrets in them to protect President Trump from the russia probe. One scenario hes agreed to stay until muellers investigation is over and the two walk out arm in arm. That would be the best possible scenario that he actually allows this to be completed. I think what you saw here was an effort, a game of chicken, as one former u. S. Attorney said to me. An effort to get rosenstein to see if he could be bullied into resigning. To see if he would go quietly. When that was impossible, they backed off a little bit. And i think the reaction from capitol hill, from the media was sufficient to back them off. But this is a temporary stay of execution. And i think what all of us and what the commerngress has to st thinking about is who would succeed mueller who would succeed rosenstein, excuse me. Would it go to the Solicitor General . Does he have conflicts . Thats noel francisco. But his Firm Jones Day represents donald trump in the russia investigation. Exactly. Sounds like a conflict to me. And there may be something directly on point, according to other ethical people who say like he cant do this. Then you drop down to olc. And goodness knows how far were going to go with this. But it is important to remember that somebody other than Jeff Sessions is going to be managing that mueller probe, unless the president fires the Attorney General and the republican senate, if there is one, confirms somebody new. Number one, i think the senate owes the country the obligation of saying we will not replace Jeff Sessions with a president ial pick until the Mueller Investigation is complete. And number two, i think it behooves mr. Francisco to be very up front and clear about what his ethical obligations are. In that case, there will be a Career Individual in the Justice Department who is supervising the mueller probe. Rod rosensteins deputy, callahan is the political appointee. There are other names there. We have to watch that line of succession. I dont want to lose the thread on this. I want to bring phil and eli back on this. I want to remind everyone why rosenstein is such a trigger for the president and why most of the venom the president has unloaded, until recently about the russia investigation, he unloaded on rosenstein. He didnt name mueller until about eight, 12 weeks ago. And part of that was because rosenstein was the official who signed off on the raid of Michael Cohens offices. The president has tweeted about him, i am being investigated for firing the fbi director by the man who told me to fire the fbi director. Witch hunt. The president has laid so much hate red for the Justice Department at the feed of rosenstein. Hes praised him for other things the doj has done. Its hard to follow. When the president is the angriest about where he is with the mueller probe, with sdny, he does come back to rosenstein. And he does grumble about it. He does tweet about it. And i think has felt boxed in because of the fact that he cant, or hasnt been able to feel like he can do whatever he wants to because of the political implications. When he expresses frustration, im the president , why cant i do this, a lot is directed at rosenstein and feeling boxed in. This is an interesting moment for him. Its an interesting moment to wonder if the congress, if democrats take over, should bring every Cabinet Secretary up to the hill and ask them to festify whether they think the 25th Amendment is necessary. Its the fifth account we know of the cabinet talking about the 25th Amendment. One guy isnt into the 25th amendment. Thats mike pompeo. Lets watch that and talk about it on the other side. If you cant be on the team, if you arent supporting this mission, then maybe you ought to find Something Else to do. Ive told that to my senior colleagues and junior folks, we need everyone who is engaged in Helping Achieve President Trumps mission. I hope that everyone in every agency, doj, fbi, state department, is on that mission. If you arent, you should take this time to go do something more productive. And i assume that talking about wiring the president , talking about the 25th Amendment is not being on the team. Not remotely. Is it possible that if you think hes cuckoo, its called being on team america, phil rucker . Well, what you just heard there from secretary pompeo is the prevailing view inside the white house. And at the senior ranks of the administration which is if you cant get on board with what this president is trying to do, then what are you doing in this job . But there are people with sort of Mission Critical assignments like Rod Rosenstein overseeing the russia investigation who see it as their mission, their duty to the country to continue to do that work. Remember, its not an investigation into donald j. Trump personally. Its an investigation into a foreign government, in to russias attempt to interfere in the u. S. Election in 2016. To interfere in our democracy. And thats what the department of justice is trying to get to the bottom of with the Mueller Investigation. I think rosenstein sees it as his duty to stay in that role at the tip of the spear as long as he can to protect the integrity of the investigation. Frank, i worked in a white house for six years. Plenty of political problems, National Security challenges, criticized from the right and the left. Never one did i hear a joke about the 25th Amendment. I had to google it. Didnt know what it was until i started watching homeland last season. Always ahead of the curve in american politics. The 25th Amendment being discussed. The Woodward Book, the omarosa book, unanimous oped and report friday about Rod Rosenstein. Should we start separating the cabinet secretaries, put them in categories of political stooges and Truth Tellers . Who goes in what category . Mattis and rosenstein belong in the truth teller category. 25 years in the federal government, 25 years in the fbi, lots of Gallous Humor and joking. Never once did anyone ever joke or mention the 25th Amendment involving the president or wiring up against the president , even in jest. And i have to tell you something first. Thats the first time ive heard the full clip from mike pompeo. He specifically mentioned the fbi. As somebody that, as a team that needs to fulfill the mission of the president , that is not the role of the fbi. And on a larger scale, as youre saying, when it comes to the 25th Amendment if you think the president is unable to fulfill his duties and powers, youre on team america. Whether or not thats part of the mission of the president. So, yes, indeed if the right people were in charge of congress, we would be having hearings. We would be getting Cabinet Members in a room alone and asking them whether or not he can fulfill his duties. And thats not going to happen under this congress. All right, phil rucker and frank figliuzzi, thanks for scaring me. The Saturday Night Massacre. Thats how the Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee describes the president s war on justice. Well get his reaction to the latest news about Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein. Also ahead the president doubles down on his Supreme Court nominee as new allegations emerge. And the midterm elections are shaping up to be a worst Case Scenario for republicans. New polling spells trouble for their chances of holding off a big blue wave. So i talked to my doctor about humira. I learned humira can help get, and keep Uc Under Control when other medications havent worked well enough. And it helps people achieve control that lasts. So you can experience few or no symptoms. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you, and them. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, control is possible. But will you fire Rod Rosenstein based on this treachery . I dont want to comment on it until i get all the facts. I havent gotten all the facts, but certainly its being looked at in terms of what took place, if anything took place. And ill make a determination some time later. But i dont have the facts. Rod rosensteins fate still hanging in the balance this hour. His critics bracing for a potential constitutional crisis. The top democrat on the Judiciary Committee saying weve been watching a slowmoving Saturday Night Massacre with donald trump firing comey and mccabe and his attacks on doj officials and special counsel mueller. If potus fires Rod Rosenstein, it would be a serious escalation in the case for obstruction of justice. Joining us now is congressman jerry nadler and former u. S. Attorney Barbara Mcquade. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Are you worried . Are you scared . I am very worried. We have seen from this administration an attack on the institutions that we depend on to preserve our Constitutional Order and liberties, attacks on the press othe judiciary, on the fbi, attacks on the department of justice. And we know that there is massive russian interference in the last election. And theres a proper investigation of that to see what they did and who in the United States abeded it. And we know that theres been a that the president has persistently attacked that investigation. And its, as i said, its a slow motion Saturday Night Massacre start with his demanding loyalty from comey, then his firing comey, firing mccabe. His attacks on the doj, attacks on individuals in the doj, his attacks on rosenstein, his attempts to fire sessions. His attacks on bruce orr who is a career person in the doj. His attacks on the fbi. This president is willing to subvert major american institutions in the service of himself. And rosenstein has been in charge of the Mueller Investigation, making sure that mueller has the wherewithal and the freedom to pursue the investigation where it leads, which is what this country needs. Im very concerned that if they fire rosenstein, theyll put in somebody who will, in fact, constrain the investigation and well not find out what we need to find out, and we will not be able to contain the damage to our institutions that we depend on for our liberty. Rod rosenstein and bob mueller are both republicans. Is it a strange position to find yourself in where and you talk about the Saturday Night Massacre. The ultimately, nixon faced a congress that once they had all the facts and saw obstruction detailed in full light, they fulfilled their duties. Are you concerned that as more and more evidence comes out, it seems to have no impact on republicans in congress . I am very concerned. In fact, the republicans in congress have been some of them, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, the chairman of the investigations committee, the heads of the freedom caucus, various others have been doing whatever they can to is that mark meadows . Jim jordan. Bob goodlatte, trey gowdy. Theyve been doing what they can to subvert the investigation, to attack the investigation. To launch an investigation of the investigation. Why do you think that is . To protect the president. I think they are putting the welfare of the president personally and politically above the welfare of the country. And i think the character of the Republican Party over years has changed. I am not at all sure that they would go along with Impeaching Nixon today with the evidence that they had. So i think that i dont say this in a partisan base, i though it will be hard for people to believe, but i think for the welfare of the country you have to have a Democratic Congress because, or at least one house because the Republican Congress has absolutely refused to do their constitutional duty, which is to be a check and a balance on the president , to exercise account, to force accountability, to Launch Investigations and to be the check and the balance that matters in the framers of the constitution insisted the congress be. And without that check, an executive who has no C Compunctions and no sense of institutional integrity can run amok as this president is doing. Not strange to hear democrats say that, but there are other republicans youre in that camp. So this is now the view not just of democrats but of everyone who is interested in protecting trump no matter the fact. Is it weird, as a democrat, as a former democratic operative, former democratic Justice Department official, to be the one standing on the line protecting republican officials like bob mueller and Rod Rosenstein . No, because there is a long tradition that people inside the administration, you expect to have respect for certain fundamental values like the rule of law. Thats not supposed to be a partisan issue. Thats supposed to be believed by democrats and republicans between administrations and also on the hill. The weird thing is the caucus of republicans that believe in just basic institutions has shrunk so to be so little. One of the things i go further. Theyre corrupted. They dont just not believe. The caucus of republicans has been corrupt. Thats why i asked you why. Theyve been corrupted by something. And the conversation that every democrat has had is, what would we do if we were in this situation and you like to think youd do the right thing. Wed be one of the republicans like jennifer who would stand up and say, i cant believe this is happening. Im not going to put partisan loyalty ahead of the country and the basic values that we hold dear. You dont know until you face the test. Watching all the republicans on the other side, theyve all crumbled until youre left with almost nobody in either house of congress. I want to bring Barbara Mcquade in. The congressman raises the important point which is there are so many different ways in which the congress has failed. First of all, theyve rubber stamped every single nominee who has gone through, whether thats judicial nominees, whether its cabinet positions, many of whom have had to leave because of corruption. Theyve not had any oversight on the meddling within the Justice Department. They report is policed their own. No ethics probe with devin nunes as to has revelation of classified material or his efforts to uncover the name of a outing a confidential source. They havent had any investigation as to the efforts, the plotting to fire Rod Rosenstein, to manufacture these sorts of crises. So there are many, many things that a normal congress would be doing. Theyd be having oversight. Theyd be calling in Rod Rosenstein and asking, did the white house ever instruct you to do x . Did the white house prevent you from doing y . And that is completely absent because, as you say, we do not we no longer have a system of checks and balances. We have one party that has thrown up the constitution and thrown up our Democratic Institutions and they dont care. Barbara mcquade, i want to ask you about some reporting in the Washington Post today, part of the rosenstein watch, if you will. The post is reporting that this person said rosenstein had expressed to others he should resign because he felt compromised. Felt very compromised and was now a witness in the russia probe, rather than a supervisor. What did we learn in the last couple days that turned him into a witness instead of a supervisor of that probe . Well, if he is someone who is involved in investigating the president or if this report is true that he offered to wear a wire to obtain incriminating statements made by the president. We still dont know what all those facts are, whether he did this, whether he did so in jest or had a genuine concern about the president s ability to serve and was acting the best interest of the country by invoking the 25th Amendment. What President Trump is doing is actually making sense which is, let me talk to him face to face on thursday and get a sense of what this is all about. But it could be that Rod Rosenstein, even if he survives his job finds himself in a position where he has to recuse himself from the investigation and then in effect may be the same which is that we now have someone else taking over the supervision of this investigation. You are shaking your head. I want to let you react and also ask you if you should take over control of the house which looks increasingly possible by the chaotic day. Were you prepared to embark upon impeachment proceedings for the president . I think its too early to say that. We dont know enough yet. We have to wait and see more facts. And thats one of the reasons why the Mueller Investigation is so important. Its certainly a possibility. Certainly if the president were to act in a way to shut down the Mueller Investigation or greatly impede it, that would be another major indication of the president involved being involved in massive Obstruction Of Justice. Probably an obstruction of judgment, too, but thats probably predates the Obstruction Of Justice. Its an impeachable offense, but i think its too early to make those determinations, and we should concentrate now on making sure that the investigation can go forward properly. The investigation of the russian involvement in our election and the investigation of the ongoing Obstruction Of Justice which is equally important. And we should we wont, but we should pass that legislation thats been pending for, what, four, five, six months to protect the Mueller Investigation. But thats of key importance. Last question. If the president has been convinced by people like sean hannity and tucker carlson, for better for worse not to fire Rod Rosenstein, what would your message to rosenstein be today . To hang in there . To hang in there as his patriotic duty to make sure that mueller can follow the facts where they lead and that hes not either fired or compromised in terms of the Investigation Being told dont look here, dont look there. Thats rosensteins duty, and i Dont Think Hes got no matter what happened in that disputed conversation, which led to nothing. There was no invocation of the 25th Amendment. No wiretapping of the president. I dont think that precludes him from or puts him in a Conflict Of Interest situation that would preclude him from doing the job we need him to do. Thank you for spending time with us. After the break, the Kavanaugh Nomination was supposed to supercharge republicans as they limp into the midterms battered by an unpopular president and constant chaos. How his crisis has rocked republican chances. Could help them save money on Car Insurance . Yea,that and homeowners, renters, motorcycle and boat insurance. Huh. Thats nice. What happens when you catch a fish . Gecko whoa. Geico. More than just Car Insurance. See how much you could save at geico. Com. Im ok a hotel can make or break a trip. And at expedia, we dont think you should be rushed into booking one. Thats why we created expedias addon advantage. Now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts on select hotels right until the day you leave. Addon advantage. Discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. Only when you book with expedia. Saying in a statement, quote, once again, those alleged to have been witnesses to the event deny it ever happened. There is now a frenzy to come up with something, anything, that will block this process and a vote on my confirmation from occurring. These are smears, pure and simple. And the president agrees with him. Again voicing support for his Supreme Court nominee this morning. Hes a fine, fine man. A great scholar. Great at everything hes ever done. And it would be sad indeed if something happens to reroute that. This is a fine man. And we certainly hope hes going to be confirmed and quick ly. His family has suffered. His family has suffered. Whats going on is not something that you should happen. Brett kavanaugh is an absolute outstanding person. Hopefully he will be confirmed quickly. Thank you very much. That was just moments ago in new york. Joining us is ron clan, former chief of staff to biden and gore and former Chief Counsel to the senate Judiciary Committee during the Clarence Thomas hearings. Barbara mcquade is still with us. Let me start with you and your thoughts about, not just where this nomination stands. It seems to be in serious jeopardy, but the conduct of the president and the republicans seems to be to allow no prospect, no possibility that these allegations, which as detailed in the Washington Post last week, couldnt be read any other week than as credible. Yeah, i think theyve i think what that says about their view about women in these claims is one thing but as a matter of process, its hard to explain. I was Chief Counsel of the senate Judiciary Committee when democrats controlled it and george h. W. Bush was president. We sent it to the fbi, the white house. A conservative white House Counsel sent it on to the fbi. And the fbi ran it to ground. The assistance by the Trump White House and by the republicans on the Judiciary Committee that the fbi would not be brought in to look into this charge, to look in the other information thats coming out, does no service to the process. In the end, it does a great disseverance to judge kavanaugh because theres no independent investigation for the senators to go on and as they go weigh this information. I want to let you elaborate on that. This is a point getting lost by republicans who probably intend to make things better for kavanaugh but not allowing her account to be viewed as credible. Whether you believe her or believe him, this is about getting to the facts. Can you elaborate on that point . I think its important and lost. Sure. No nominee likes to be investigated. Lets just accept that, nicolle. But its in the interest of the nominee, him or herself, and the institution to which theyre going to be names, the Supreme Court, to run these things to ground. To find out what happened. That means having the fbi interview the person bringing the allegations. Interview the nominee. Look at the available evidence. We hear third hand, fourth hand. He has calendars from his high school days. He is talking to friends. But all this is being done in a slap dash extraordinary way. Thats why the fbi, professional, neutral investigators, look into this material. Supplement Background Files with new information as it comes up and create a basis on which people can make a judgment. The effort to rush this nomination from the start, to not turn over all of judge kavanaughs white house papers, to just kind of ram this thing through is kind of part of whats coming home to roost here instead of running this through the appropriate, regular full, complete process. What ron is perhaps not articulating completely, but i sure will is that this will not end, even if he gets on the court because we have had no vetting of all of these allegations. The fbi has not gone out to interview the yale people who say that they heard Deborah Ramirez calling out Brett Kavanaughs name or others heard this about this incident because we have not had that. These can always be raised again. There may be other women. There may be more people who come forward. And what do we do then . We embark on an impeachment of a sitting Supreme Court justice . There is no way that kavanaugh wins with questions still pending, with controversy still out there and how many of us are confident that weve talked to all the women that weve heard from all the women who have witnessed or been a part of this . We now have one of the witnesses from complainant number one, mark judge, who makes an appearance in the new yorker story as someone who apparently told an exgirlfriend, yeah, i was involved in this incident of having sex or more than one people having sex with a woman who was drunk. Gosh, dont you think the fbi should go talk to him . What if he writes a book later on where he confesses what he told to his girlfriend. This has the opportunity, this has the possibility of corrupting the Supreme Court, of throwing in doubt every decision they make with him on the court. This is serious stuff. And they are treating this like just another political game. I would also add this notion, particularly by lindsey graham, which i find appalling for a Military Lawyer that there is nothing to investigate is preposterous. Ronan farrow and jane mayer are out investigating and finding witnesses and finding confirming evidence. You cant simultaneously say theres nothing to go on and and at the same time say the fbi cant go look. Those two things are completely incompatible and its indicative of people running scared and people who think they can just jam it through because they have the votes. Well, were going to test the meddle of people like jeff flake and Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. Those are the four. This is, if you want to keep up the analogy that you and ron have talked about, this is the political game theyre playing. Lisa murkowski, Susan Collins, jeff flake and bob corker. Those are the votes theyre watching. Is it your sense the white house thinks this is salvageable or a sure thing or in peril . I think they think it could be salvageable but theyre worried about it and look at their options and dont have a better option than trying to keep going. If this falls apart, theyre not getting another nominee put through before november. They look at the impact on november and they want to animate conservatives and excite them by putting another conservative on the Supreme Court. Theyre trying to get everybody to go back to their corners by turning this into yet another partisan fight and getting everybody to look at it through that lens. But there is risk in that. As they try to attack the process and try to attack democrats, you heard Mitch Mcconnell doing it again. The president saying the same thing. Its hard to do that without at least implicitly attacking or dismissing the women here. And saying, you know, like the president did, this happened 30 years ago. Why are we just hearing about it now . Its awfully fishy. Mcconnell last week told the president thats not helpful. Today was saying the same thing on the senate floor. As women see these accusers dismissed leading into the election, whatever cahappens wi kavanaugh, thats not helpful for republicans. Professor ford has invited the scrutiny and, really, the turning upside down of her life and of this, hat she describes as a painful memory by the fbi. When an accuser does that, what does that look like to Law Enforcement . Does that usually mean these confident in her facts or that shes telling the truth . Yeah, i think that there are a couple things she has done that enhance her credibility. One is inviting the fbi to come in and look at her past. Look at her life and scrutinize this story. The other thing shes done that gives her credibility is putting at the scene mark judge. This is somebody who is a friend of judge kavanaugh. Someone who would likely take his side and yet she puts him at the scene to say ask him. I think both of those things lend credibility to the story shes telling. Theres two issues going on with the members of congress here and Mitch Mcconnell. One is saying, you know, do we believe her . And if we even if we do believe her, is this a big deal . He seems to be suggesting by his words and actions that the answer is no. Most people would say the answer to those might very well be yes. Do we believe her . Lets at least find out what she has to say by giving this a full investigation. And if we find it to be true, is it a big deal . Sexual assault is a crime. If someone commits it today at age 17, theyd be charged with a crime as an adult. If they were convicted could be sent to prison and would be required to register as a sex offender for the rest of their lives. Those are the stakes. And i think she has suggested that shes very open to an investigation. I think we owe it to her and all the girls on judge kavanaughs Basketball Team to send a message that we take these allegations seriously. Last word. Im not surprised by the moral failing here. The refusal to even give any space to the idea that she might be telling the truth. The victim attacking they continue to do. They dont care about any of that. They want the seat just as they didnt care that donald trump had confessed on tape to sexual assault. They wanted the presidency. Im surprised by the political blind spot they cant see how this plays around the country with, and not just with women but with a lot of men, too, who have seen this awakening in this country in the last year and a half about the way women are treated. And that awakening has not extended to the republican members of the United States senate. Theres time for them to withdraw this nomination and still get another nominee confirmed before the new senate takes place in january. They could do this in the least politically harmful way possible. They seem dead set against not doing that. All right. Barbara mcquade, thank you. When we come back, youve heard of the blue wave. Get ready for the pink wave. New reporting from the Washington Post about how women may help usher in an electoral rebuke of Donald Trumps alpha male style of governing. Alpha male style of governing. Not long ago, ronda started here. And then, more jobs began to appear. These techs in a lab. This builder in a hardhat. The welders and electricians who do all of that. The diner staffed up cause they all needed lunch. Teachers. Doctors. Jobs grew a bunch. What started with one job spread all around. Because each job in energy creates many more in this town. Energy lives here. Well, the fate of the Kavanaugh Nomination is still unclear. The accusations against him could prove to have dramatic political consequences come november. Especially for a party led by donald trump. The Washington Post reports quote strategists in both parties say trumps agenda and style and the fact that the gop leadership stands mostly in lock step with him are undoing years of often painstaking work to court more female and minority voters. He solidifies the Republican Party as the party of men. Hes framing the midterm elections as a referendum on his presidency and that has leaders and operatives in the party fearing what has been termed a pink wave of women powering a democratic takeover of the house or perhaps the senate to deliver a rebuke to trump. If you wonder how the president s female advisers stand by while he attacks and anchors Plastic Surgery or makes derogatory remarks about female politicians or stands by roy moore, consider this from the post report. Inside his orbit theres been what one former white house official called a mindness to gender issues. As a political liability in part because the president resents the accusations that have been brought against him personally and because they see the broader issue as a liberal Talking Point. Im sorry, its not a liberal Talking Point to think that Women Deserve better than a president who stands by his endorsement of an accused Child Molester of roy moore. This guy reminds you of your abusive exhusband. Hes a bully, he lies. He makes your life miserable. You feel the contempt from him. He makes you feel like a nonperson thats what american women see when they look at this man and when he stands by as you said roy moore, when he goes after multiple now women complainants who have come forward to Lodge Complaints against judge kavanaugh, and pursues either a mistaken identity thing or a nutty and slutty theme as they did with anita hill, the american recoil and i think men as well. You have already seen the women running for office like never before. We saw a little bit in my home state in virginia in 2017. Suburban women turned out in droves. Ron, let me fete you on the politics and get you on the one woman who seems to break the mold, Stormy Daniels, shes out with a new book and Shes Outtrumping Trump by being more crude than him, talking about the body parts. This is a body part day and getting under his skin by going at him where it hurts. His you know, his ego. His frail male prowess if you will. And it seems like if theres a political lesson here its sort of Fighting Fire With fire. Is that something the democrats have to take into consideration . I dont know about that youre not going to nominate Stormy Daniels . No, nor am i going talk talk about where it hurts. The Big Ore Issue bigger issue is how the Republican Party is remaking itself in the american image and not that trump carries a pall over his party, but the republican candidates kind of mimic trump. So you have the republican nominee for senate in north dakota this week running against an incumbent woman, heidi hide camp, say about this Kavanaugh Incident that, you know, it was just the attempt that never went anywhere. As if, you know, what happened, what wasnt a serious attack at all. So, you know, i think its not trump himself is a problem for republicans but republicans are acting very trumpy and thats going to get them in trouble. Record number of women running for office, 180 Democratic Women are running for the house, 50 more than any year in american history. The previous record is 120. Thats a pink wave coming and it will have a big impact this fall. God willing. Were due a pink wave. Let me put up something that came into us. Kavanaugh and his wife sat down with Martha Mccallum on fox news. Lets look at a clip. Did you ever say, were out, this isnt worth it . I wont let False Accusations drive us out of this process d and, you know, were looking for a fair process. I can be heard and defend the my integrity, my life long record. My life long record of promoting dignity and equality for women starting with the women who knew me when i was 14 years old. Im not going anywhere. Eli . Well, i think its interesting. That has to be viewed in the context of the last 48 hours and the republicans ramping up this line of the democrats and theyre politicizing this nomination pro ses. What you see is a political shop and the rnc everybody trying to defend him. You see them putting Kavanaugh On Television fighting this in the pr space ahead of thursdays hearing. Ahead of when dr. Ford is supposed to testify first. She will testify after this interview tonight. Shes reportedly turned down a lot of Press Interviews and wants to keep this just in the space of the Senate Hearing on thursday. But theyre out there. They are fighting a pr battle on the republican side. They are digging in on this because again i dont think they see any other great options for them at this point. And, you know, this is its just fascinating. I think people will be watching this tonight. But hes telling his story and getting out in front of the accuser for sure. And hes doing it on fox news. Speaking to for human beings, murkowski, Senator Corker and senator flake, do you think that is helpful . It might be helpful with the few senators. Look, obviously its the playbook from a number of male accusers. They do the interview with their wife and bill clinton did that in 1992. Theyre worried he doesnt make it until thursday because you could come out before the hearing and answer these accusations then. I think theyre worried that if Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins said our votes arent there, dont put the country through the hearing, dont put the republican majority through the hearing where you have 11 male republican senators glowering at dr. Blasey ford from the dias, it will be harmful for us. They cant wait for thursday to tell the story and lets be honest they need to do it under much friendlier questioning. He wont be asked did he drink until he blacked out, is there other women . Hell get a much more friendlier audience. There are some questions that he deemed too personal. That was first sense i got that there are people in the white house who would rather he not go through this. You do not leak those source of details if you have complete confidence in the nominee. It was an effort that he should wake up or maybe we should get him out of to way. This is not going to end on thursday. You have another accuser, Deborah Ramirez, with multiple confirming witnesses. How does Susan Collins and jeff flake who said im not going to vote until i hear from this woman. This not going to end on thursday. Let me give you the last word. Can you speak to how you see this interview in the context of what were discussing all hour about this nomination in controversy . I think its a sign of the politicization of the process, theyre putting him out on fox, as opposed to the neutral outlet. But you know the last time the republicans jammed through a nominee was 1991 and they got their man in the end. But they lost the elections badly in 1992. You know, justice should be done as with judge kavanaugh, but then the women of america will have the final say come this november. Do you think theres any space in this debate to slow this down . Do you think it would behoove the republicans to say at the beginning of your appearance here its in his interest too to slow this down