The week investors dont want to be left holding the bag in case Something Else drops or happens in another part of the world. Thats why youre seeing this exaggerated return. When i get to 2. 5 is when i start to tell people lets pay attention. Sure. You just mentioned the fates book thing. I noticed over the course of the lat few days its not just facebook. Twitter shares are down, google shares, a lot of the technology shares, shares on social Media Companies that are all looking at the possibility of regulation. Is that another factor here . Yeah, anybody who claims that theyre not a media company, theyre just a utility, is now in a little bit of trouble because thats its not what americans are thinking about this. The europeans are much faster on this sort of thing. They are investigating whether these Companies Really have more responsibility, whether they should be regulated. You know, john, no industry wants to regulate wants anybody else to regulate it so these companies had a chance to regulate themselves. A lot of investors are saying hey maybe you missed the boat. Maybe you could have regulated yourself, you havent, we have to get involved. That spookz investors. All right, ali velshi, my bald brother. Appreciate your help today. We will talk more about the facebook stuff. Well talk more about the trade wars stuff. First well start the show off by talking about at least in the political world the biggest breaking news, john dowd, that man right there, the president s lead attorney in Robert Muellers russia investigation who adopted the proposal of roberto duran, no mas. As the probe approaches what could be a particularly precarious phase for the president. An inperson interview with Robert Mueller. The New York Times reporting dowd concluded mr. Trump was ignoring his advice, like dont attack Robert Mueller on twitter, which trump has now done three times in five days. The president is reportedly pleased with dowds decision to leave. He had grown increasingly frustrated with the attorney who stepped in over the weekend when he issued a statement calling on the Justice Department to, quote, bring an end to the alleged Russia Collusion Investigation and affirmed on the record that he was speaking as the president s counsel. But then after his comments sparked uproar among critics who believed trump was laying the groundwork to fire Robert Mueller, dowd suddenly backtracked and said, no, no, no, i wasnt speaking on behalf of the president after all. That was just me. Apparently even that was the wrong move. The times writes, quote, the president was angered with dowds handling of the episode telling people dowd should not have backed off his initial statement. Dowd has also been at the center of major dispute with the president s legal team of how to approach trumps impending interview with mueller. He stressed trump is eager to set down with mueller. Dowd has long thought the interview was a bad idea according to multiple reports from the times. All of which lends even more significance to those meager few words that donald trump said your reporter today on this topic just hours after dowds resignation was made public. Mr. President , would you like to testify to special counsel Robert Mueller, sir . Thank you. I would like to. Here with us now to talk about these breaking developments, National Political reporter for the Washington Post the robert costa. Msnbc National Security analyst, the frank figliuzzi, and jennifer rodgers, former assistant u. S. Attorney as well as our friends Jennifer Paul merry, former Communications Director for the Obama White House and Hillary Clintons president ial campaign, and a man who needs no introduction other than three simple Irish Catholic words, lawrence odonnell. Good to see you, lawrence. I want to start with you, mr. Robert costa and ask you this question. With dowd leaving, the president stressing in his one Little Exchange in the white house today that he wants to do the interview with mueller, is the difference between the president s point of view about that and dowds point of view about that, is that really the basic fundamental bottom line reason why john dowd is out . Disagreements over that potential interview with the mueller team has been one of the conflicts in recent weeks. This is really the end of a simmering relationship between dowd and the president. The president has grown increasingly angry privately inside the west wing about how his team legally is approaching the Mueller Probe and hes trying to take control of the administration wholesale, not just with regard to the russia legal team, but with people inside different positions in the white house. All right. So, robert, pull the aperture back. You have john dowd out. You have conspiracy theorist Joseph Digenova in. Esteemed member of the Washington Bar declined a role. Mark, the president s personal lawyer, once shunned from the team now may be making a reentry. When you take a look at the slightly Bigger Picture of the state of the president s legal team as we move to this new intense phase in the investigation, what do we make of it . Its a struggle inside of the white house right now. My colleagues and i have been reporting today that so many whiteshoe law firms in washington have conflicts with regard to joining the mueller legal team for the President Trump. People like ted olson are not joining. Theyre finding it hard to bring lawyers in because lawyers say we have conflicts. Were not going to be able to do it. Its too much of a Political Risk for the law firm. Hes turning to pundits, people on television being allies. This is leaving the white house in a precarious position. Who is the president s lead lawyer on his outside legal team . Im turning to pundits. I know how dangerous that would be to put some of these people in a court of law. Frank fa glues see, i want to ak you a question. He was afraid trump might perjure himself. Is that reason enough, you think my client is going to walk in, because of his tendency to lie, the weaknesses of his memory, et cetera, et cetera, hes going to per jerry lewis himself so he shouldnt do it, hes rejecting my advice. Is that enough reason to say im done, im out of here . Indeed it is. A lawyer cannot knowingly supborn perjury. That in itself could be it. There is a larger chaos reigning here. There is an indication the president wants to call his own shots in his legal defense. It brings up the old adage he who represents himself has a fool for a client. I think thats what were looking at here. What kind of lawyer to costas point a second ago, what kind of lawyer would under these circumstances given the chaos that reigns and given the specific issues that are bones of contention right now and the president s impulses, what kind of lawyer is going to want to walk into that kind of environment who has credibility . It is a lawyer that is not going to be wedded to the facts. Hes going to throw out conspiracy thoor iz, there are aliens from out of space causing this to happen, there is a deep state going on here. Were going to hear the no collusion phrase repeated several times every speech. Thats the lawyers approach that trump is going to go with. But its a signal to all of us that the facts are problematic for the president , that hes choosing to go with a p. R. Route versus a hard legal defense. Jennifer, i want to ask you, i want to talk about mark kasowitz, someone who was a street fighter well known, but someone who has in his roster of clients according to the Washington Post last year, one of his clients was oleg deraposka, Russian Oligarch and evil doer. If hes on his way back in, is that not a problem . Its a big problem for the president because he also has no white collar experience. I mean, he is not a criminal lawyer. So, to bring him back on, it may signal this more aggression stance are talking about. Hes a known bull dog. At the same time he doesnt have the ability, he does presidente team to support him. To go with joe digenova who is more of a tv personality, i guess, than a real lawyer here. Not that there is anything wrong with tv personalities. Of course not. Let me ask you another thing about john dowd. This episode over the weekend which was extraordinary, he put the statement out. I pray that bob mueller Rod Rosenstein ends this inquiry and we get past this. I am speaking as Donald Trumps counsel. After the uproar, no, no, i was speaking for myself. I said, i pray, me speaking personally. What does that say . Is there some way in which by having put that statement out initially that dowd himself could somehow be implicated in obstruction of justice . Well, we have this issue with dowd before, right, when he wrote a tweet that looked like it came from the president then dowd claimed it came from him. I mean right. Hes in some trouble here. Im not sure its legal trouble as far as the criminal law goes and obstruction, certainly with the bar. You cant be putting out statements that youre saying are yours and theyre not yours and theyre somebody elses. This is misleading conduct that i think the bar would be interested in. You know, it may have been a kind of last ditch play for him to try to stay with the president , do something he thinks the president likes. At the end of the day, you know, the president is going in a different direction, probably a bad direction. I guess he was out. But that may have been what it was over the weekend, trying to stay on board there. I want to put that tweet up because it was one of these remarkable events. John dowd was, when you think about the president s legal team, there was a period of time we said theres the yahoo from new york. We had donald trump in december talking general flynn. I had to fire general flynn because he lied to the vicepresident and the fbi. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide. Now, people said, thats weird because he was supposed to be just fired because he lied to the vicepresident , not because he lied to the fbi. That was new. And so suddenly john dowd steps forward and says, no, i wrote that tweet. People said, wait a minute, lawyers know the word isnt pled, its pleaded. What trouble does that spell for you . Your credibility obviously. What trouble does that potentially spell for you . What does it say a white shoe lawyer would be engaging in that kind of tactic . I dont know what to make of that tweet. I have to say pled and pleaded. Ive seen it both ways. Ary were sticklers on this show. This notion that this tweet came out that was problematic for the president in terms of the facts. He comes in afterwards when people start pointing this out, oh, no, it was me. I wouldnt be surprised if the Grievance Committee of the bar is looking at that. Thats very problematic for dowd. You know, look, the new york bulldogs are a lot of good white shoe lawyers. Its just the president hasnt tapped those. Hes tried for some of them and theyve said no. Not just recently, by the way. Not just now that they have conflicts. But at the very dinning of thbe this inquiry. A lot of them wouldnt come on board for a variety of reasons we can guess at. My political friends, between the two of you, you have seen a lot of special counsels, independent counsels. When you look at the state of Donald Trumps legal team and what weve been discussing, what say you . The news of the day is donald trump has traded an incompetent lawyer who has bungled this thing consistently for, what as of this hour, for a much worse set of lawyers. Now, lets just correct the record here a tiny bit. Its being reported as fact fact, john dowd resigned. We have no idea. John dowd says he resigned. We do not know whether donald trump fired him or whether he resigned. I dont know when we will know the truth of that. If ever. And lets not ever report as fact or even anything at all close to fact that donald trump wants to be interviewed by the special prosecutor. The fact that donald trump today said that on camera as he runs out of a room afraid to talk to anyone about anything else thats happening in this thing, only means that donald trump said that. There is utterly no evidence at all that donald trump wants to be interviewed by the special prosecutor or that he doesnt want to be interviewed by the special prosecutor. We dont have any idea what is actually going through his mind at this particular minute and we certainly dont know that the same thing will go through his mind about the same subject in the next minute. Jennifer, you look at the situation, you know, when donald trump is backed in a corner, his immediate move is to not so much bear his teeth as become a pie romaine yak. He tries to light a fire on everything in the room hes in. He burns the house down to get out of the corner hes in. At this moment is that what this reply indicates, what lawrence said, im backed in a corner, im going to destroy everything around me and dance through the ashes and make an escape . Its also the way he said it over his shoulder as hes going out of the room. I want to do it. Hes done people remember i had two thoughts in my head. He has done it a lot. Hes been deposed a lot. Hes had a lot of lawsuits. Interesting, people would be surprised to learn hes actually pretty careful when hes under oath about what he says. So, i can see why lawyers would be very concerned about putting someone like him under oath. But the record shows that he can be he can parse with like more skill than he normally does. But the other thought i have in my head is just having worked in white houses, as bad as it looks on the outside, its usually a little more chaotic on the inside, than you can see, even when it looks bad. So, how bad is it on the inside that what we see is chaos . And how bad is it that lawyers keep quitting . I mean, these are lawyers that have theyre generally mercenaries to begin with and theyre getting paid. They are criminal defense lawyers. Thats what they defend. So, the fact that they keep walking away we just have rounds and rounds of these people quitting because their client is lying to them or theyre concerned about its interesting about the Bar Committee that hadnt occurred to me, the kind of exposure that they have. How bad is it that you cant get lawyers to stay . I want to go back to mr. Costa. Mr. Costa, the other the two supposedly great white shoe lawyers that donald trump brought in, great experience in the Washington Bar, one was john dowd, the other ty cobb, still on the team at this moment. They are remembered among most of us, the two colorfully sat in the washington restaurant and talked about the trump legal strategy with a reporter sitting next to the table, politically savvy knowing the ways of this town, nevertheless ty cobb still there. For how much longer . Based on my reporting, john, his status has been fading for quite sometime. The president has been frustrated not only with mr. Dowd, but with mr. Cobb. And the white house counsel, don mcgahn is not in frequent touch with the outside legal team, if at all. So, you have this president on his own up in the residence often watching television, talking to friends and allies in the Legal Community encouraging him to fight the Mueller Investigation, and not really trusting his lawyers in the same way he may have done six to seven months ago. The reason for this, white house officials tell me, is the president was told by dowd and cobb back in late 2017 the investigation would probably be wrapping up soon. Well, its march. It hasnt wrapped up. Thats left for the president to try to make some moves. Frank, i want to come back to you and ask a question about something i talked about a minute ago. The dowd got in trouble over the weekend putting out a statement said he was speaking for the president , then speaking for himself. We learned donald trump was angry at dowd because he thought he should have stood by the statement, the statement that the investigation, the probe should be shutdown. If youre bob mueller and youre reading that news account, that donald trump is angry at dowd because he wishes dowd had stood by the statement, what does that say to you as Robert Mueller about where the president s head is at and about what the state of his approach to the entire investigation is at this moment . Yeah, look, so, if youre on the mueller team, youre seeing this chaos and it creates cracks that you want to exploit. So it gets into the president s mindset of how hes going to defend himself, how hes lashing out at people, how he wants people to think he wants to be interviewed. I also think its quite significant that the departure occurs on the heels of an inperson meeting with the mueller team where it was actually discussed what questions might be posed to the president. I think that was reported back to the president. I think the president heard those questions and said, youre kidding me. This is really going to happen, this is serious . Theyre really going treat me this way . And i think he started lashing out and i think dowd was one of the victims of that. Ill stay with you, frank, on this, and ill ask jennifer the same question in a second. Youre bob mueller, youve been negotiating with john dowd for some period of time, hes now gone. You think youre going to be negotiating with who, with digenova, jeannine is going to be in your office negotiating the terms of an interview . I would have thought that would fill bob mueller with alloy glee. Look, there is chaos here. Youre right. This is going to serve to delay negotiations. Were going to see this go on and on and on and it actually might be in the favor of the president because, you know, if your dentist tells you, you need all your wisdom teeth pulled some day, its going to be ugly and painful, some people say lets do it now. Some people say ill wait until i absolutely have to do it. I think were going to see that with trump. Im in the latter category. Jennifer, does donald trump end up testifying, sitting with mueller or not . I think so. If he refuses to do the interview voluntarily, there will be a subpoena eaissued. I think a judge will enforce the subpoena. I think ultimately trump will sit down. Mueller should want that for a variety of reasons. One reason Trump Supporters are going to demand it. They want him to have his say. Even if it is a bunch of nonsense and doesnt lead to charges, i think mueller would want that to happen because he has to give the president a chance to respond official lip. I think it will happen. We just have to see when. I have to say if we end up with a legal team of digenova, kazowitz and per owe thank you for coming in. The rest of you can stay, at least for the moment. Coming up in less than one week, donald trump has managed to completely up end what it means to be a republican president by conventional standards and it looks like he has taken his entire party with him. Plus, with friends like these, Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg finally address the growing scandal over data, but do very, very little to quiet the storm at facebook. And did the nation wake up to a preview of what the next president ial Campaign Cycle might look like . Were doing things for this country that should have been done for many, many years. Weve had this abuse by many other countries and groups of countries that were put together in order to take advantage of the United States and we dont want that to happen. Were not going to let that happen. Its probably one of the reasons i was elected, maybe one of the main reasons, but were not going to let that happen. Oh, hes definitely not doing what his predecessors have done in the past. In just the past 24 hours, the Republican Party has had to reconcile itself to a president completely, utterly, totally out of sync with what the gop has traditionally stood for. To wit, trump slapped 60 billion on chinese imports, dealing a second blow to the long held republican belief in free trade and the markets down nearly 3 today. Overnight we learned of the 1. 3 trillion omnibus spending bill that President Trump has indicated he will sign which will balloon the deficit beyond all recognition. And, of course, there is the expect consolidate spectacle of trump cozying up to putin, despite the partys hawkishness. Contributing editor of the Weekly Standard and host of its podcast, daily standard, and costa still with us. Another friend, University Professor eddy. Charlie sie charlie sykes, i go to you as the one republican on this show at this moment. Its just its kind of a stark thing how much donald trump has departed from republican orthodoxy just in the last 24 to 48 hours. How is your party coping with that spectacle . Yeah, im not sure i recognize the party any more. This will really test their capacity to swallow all of this and to go along with all of these departures. Look, the three things that you mention, you know, are dramatic moves that threaten to eclipse almost every message that conservatives have had for the last 20 years. Theyre not even pretending to care about the deficit. Theyre undermining the agenda of Economic Growth that they put through with the tax cuts and the appeasement of Vladimir Putin is exactly the kind of thing that republicans used to mock obama for. So, yeah, were going to find out how much in this cult of personality with the very flexible ideology of republicans, how much are they willing to go along. Ly say this, though. That omnibus bill is exactly the kind of this can that stoked the perpetual machine on the right that exploited donald trump to win the nomination. I dont see anything in that bill other than the funding of the military that is going to do anything other than demoralize the conservative Republican Base going into the mid terms. Lawrence, i want to cite a thinker not as sterling as you, tom friedman who wrote the piece in the New York Times what trump and putin have in common. This quote. Trump news that once he compromised the gop, even its evangelical wing to give him a pass on the taxes, theyd rollover for anything. Seconds with porn stars, trashing the fbi, coddling putin. With us once you erase a big red line, it is hard to start enforcing others. How much do you think that is the dynamic here thats played out with donald trump republicans . As usual i learned a lot when i read Tom Friedmans column. Hes way smarter than i am on my best day. From where were sitting now and looking back on that tax return violation of protocol, no law saying he has to do it, but everyone had agreed this is a sensible thing to do, friedman pointing out that allowing donald trump to get away with that and Donald Trumps own personal surprise at getting away with that, has emboldened him for everything he has done since, and every lie he has told since, and every line he has crossed since. That for him was always the biggest line. The reason why i always felt confident about predicting donald trump run for president because i had the rule book in my hand and the rule book says you have to show us your tax returns. Hes never going to do anything that forces him to show his tax returns. Hes just not going to. And get away with it. And get away with it. Not just the press who raised it a lot. I certainly did. His party said, its okay with us. Charlie, going back to you, trump basically said they seem to be like the bargain your party made was, okay, hes a liar. Hes a nincompoop, but were going to use him as a vehicle to advance our policy agenda. When it came to the tax cuts, that seemed kind of like a logic that made some kind of sense, a debased kind of sense, but sense. Now, however, the policy agenda that hes pursuing is utterly at odds with theirs. He wants to start trade wars and slap tariffs on people. He wants to have a giant deficit and he wants to be in bed with Vladimir Putin. So, whats the rationale now if youre a republican . Youre going along with all the stuff you didnt like before because why . Well, thats the thing about faustian bargains. You think you know what you want, but the price is way higher than you thought it was going to be. Now conservatives are waking up to realize how much they were rolled on this. The only answer i can give to the sunken cost, theyre in so deep they dont see a way out. In for a dime, out for a dollar. Once youve sold half your soul, 55 , 60 of your soul, at a certain point where do you go . Right now, this is where theyre at. They cannot win this Midterm Election without the trump voters. They cant win by breaking with trump. So, its almost an insoluble problem which leads us to this particular point. Theyre stuck with him. Robert costa they made that decision. Robert costa, youre up there on capitol hill and im always following your twitter feed. I saw this tweet earlier today. Youre describing the disruption on capitol hill. The Mueller Probe continues popping up like a submarine each week with no one in the white house quite sure whats coming next. Knowing the president s ire extends to them and their bill. So, give me just give me a little window into the collective mind of the Congressional Republican caucus at this moment. Well, for example, i just had a revealing interview with senator Lindsey Graham of south carolina, republican, he said he was here in the 90s when president bill clinton was dealing with his own controversies and special counsel and he said hes worried about President Trump who he called an ally. He said hes worried about the president s focus on the actual presidency, the job. He needs to bolster this legal team, bring in some lawyers to help him focus on the presidency, not on countering the Mueller Investigation because the president , he said, has more on his plate than just dealing with mueller. He has to deal with the Republican Party, the Midterm Elections and policy. Robert costa, i know you have a deadline to meet right now. Youre going to break some news of some kind or at least spit out some staggering brilliant analysis. Im going to let you go. Thank you for being with us today. Im going to turn to mr. Glod now. There are a lot of ways in which president s can defy orthodoxy, some dont matter. Two of the big places where trump is departing from, not just republican orthodoxy, but kind of the big establishment orthodoxy on the questions of trade, for instance, which has been a bipartisan consensus view in favor of free trade, at least since world war ii. And on the question of russia where even when there was a little bit of a difference over how hawkish to be, there was never any doubt between democrats and republicans that russia was fundamentally our strategic nemesis, our foe, not our ally, right . So, with trump wildly veering away from that consensus, what does it do to americas standing in the world and what kind of risk and jeopardy does the country face when it has a president who is basically giving the bird to everybody in both parties on this matter . It creates an environment of uncertainty they dont know what to think. The russia question is kind of odd to me. We can answer that in relation to whether hes compromised or referred to former cia director john brennan and the like to talk about that. But the first issue around trade, right, actually kind of points us to the fact that the recent president ial election was a change election. That donald trump isnt your traditional republican, that were seeing a political realignment in the country that actually is that reflects, right, a rejection, or at least a kind of deep suspicion about current orthodoxies on both sides of the aisle. So, what we do know is that the current economic regime, Global Economic regime has not done well by everyday ordinary workers. People are catching hell. I keep using that word. People are having a difficult time, right, making ends meet. Theyre working harder. Theyre working longer and theyre making less. So, they know that something has to change. And donald trump spoke to that work. They spoke to the worker in western pennsylvania, spoke to that worker in the south in the mississippi delta. So did Bernie Sanders. So, this move around china and trade may seem weird, right, unorthodox, but its actually speaking to some real serious unease among workers. We need to have a conversation about that because, remember Bernie Sanders supports this. The head of aflcio, head of steel unions, right, they supported the tariffs on steel. There is an interesting argument to be had about whats going on here. Hes right. I think trump is right, this is what he ran on. It is not what the Republican Party truly on trade, yeah. It is not what the Republican Party traditionally stands for, but it is what he are not on. I think the original sin on the republicans part, not releasing his taxes, its his announcement speech. I talked to some republican consultants that worktd on other campaigns and said in retrospect they realized the moment trump said, you know, called mexicans criminals and rapists and some i suspect are good people, he got buyin because he was willing to say the truth. He was willing to say the really hard truth that nobody else had the courage to do. And i think these are people, to your point, who want to theres people who are concerned about the world coming to the United States and want to protect ourselves and shut the world out. On our side, i feel like its people who want to engage in the world. Thats what that dynamic of the 2016 campaign was. The Republican Party is, you know, the traditional Republican Party is off on an island somewhere. This is what trump ran on. We shouldnt forget the 3 00 buckets steve bannon put out there. National sovereignty, economic nationalism, those three things. We thought that was bannonism. Its trumpism. It presents complicated challenges to the democratic party, too. Well talk about it down the road, maybe this show. For now we have to say goodbye to charlie sykes. Thanks, sir. It is complicated, how people in facebook are responding to the growing crisis with your and my data. We have a new interview with Sheryl Sandberg coming up next. Just got a job as a lifeguard in savannah im 85 and i wanna go home [ding] [boxing bell ding] [applause] if i could live this past week again, i would definitely have had mark and myself out speaking earlier. We were trying to get to the bottom of this and make sure we could take strong action. Our commitment is clear. We know this is an issue of trust. We know this is a critical moment for our company, for the service that we provide. We are going to do everything we can that was facebooks chief operating officer Sheryl Sandberg just a few minutes ago on cnbc. Congressional hearings, regulatory pressures and consumer backlash all looming as potentially business breaking crises if facebook doesnt handle things in the right way in the wake of the Cambridge Analytica whistleblower. They will in fact summon Mark Zuckerberg to capitol hill in the coming weeks. Joining the panel now is my old friend john ba tell, longtime author covering technology. Founder of wire. John, you have been watching facebook, been talking to facebook including Mark Zuckerberg since the company was born. And i know youve been also watching their reaction to the scandal. What Mark Zuckerberg said on Television Last night and other interviews, now this clip we played of Sheryl Sandberg. Is it your sense facebook thinks they are facing an stexistentia crisis . Theyve faced i dont know how many existential crises the past decade and a half. I dont think it ever felt like they were existential crises. In this case i think theyre starting to wonder, but they i think believe they may have gotten it contained in the last 24 hours. Im not certain thats true, but i dont think they truly understand the scope of the problems that theyve got. Do you think that the issue that they look at this and say, hey, weve got a problem here because we might get some increased regulatory scrutiny and were going to have washington on our back, or do you think they look at this and say, man, we have fundamentally potentially risked the perception, at least, we have broken trust with the millions upon millions of people who give their data to us and who rely on the Service Every day. What category of problem do you think they see themselves as having . The far greater issue for them is the one you mentioned second, the trust issue. The regulatory issue, they have the best lawyers in the world, far better than trump, it seems. And theyre not worried about whether or not they can manage the regulatory issues that this might raise. But they are extremely concerned that people might start leaving facebook in droves and that other entrepreneurs might come up with platforms that seem better for customers who are just no longer trusting their service. Do you think i was looking at zuckerberg last night on television. He looked to me, for a guy with his extraordinary wealth, extraordinary power, a greater maturity than some people ascribe to him. He still seemed to me to not be rising to this moment. Again, youve watched him personally for a long time. Do you think he is comfortable in the position of responsibility he now has . Or on some level he would like to somehow have all the money and power in the world but not have to face any of the responsibility and scrutiny hes now getting . Who wouldnt want that, right . But the truth is i think you can find an answer to that question. And when he was questioned both on cnn and all of the interviews he subsequently gave, on the question of whether or not he would testify to congress, and his answer was really interesting and to me very evasive, which was, well, of course i would if i were the right person. And it just shows a complete lack of understanding that as the ceo and really the face of this, you know, worldbeating company that more than 2 billion people use, he is the right person to testify. And someone with a little bit more awareness would have said, of course, i want to testify. Show me where i should show up and ill be there. Thats what i would expect from a ceo. But an engineers mindset is always, okay, ive got a problem, let me break it into the Component Parts and im going to figure out each of those Component Parts how i can fix them then im going reassemble the robot. I think thats what we got in the response in the last 24 hours. The last thing i want to ask you before i turn to the table, it wasnt that long ago people were asking if Mark Zuckerberg was going to run for president in 2020. He went on a road trip and went to places like iowa, places where early votes take place, president ial process. This actually happened not that long ago. Yeah. Do you think he actually ever was entertaining the notion of running for president . And i can ask the stupidist question in the world. Is he having second thoughts about it now . I think he absolutely was considering it in the back of his mind. But to me that 50 states tour was entirely about ensuring that he maintains the trust with the 2 billion population that is already seeing Mark Zuckerberg as their leader. I dont think he needs the problems of the presidency and i dont think he seeks them. Jennifer palmieri, i want to ask you a question and turn to the question facebook, good or bad, good or evil for our democratic process given what we now know. But there was a question asked of Mark Zuckerberg last night on cnn about the role of whether facebook impacted the election or not. I want to hear what Mark Zuckerberg had to say last night. Knowing what you know now, do you believe facebook impacted the results of the 2016 election . Oh, that is hard. You know, i think that it is its really hard for me to have a full assessment of that. You know, the reality is well, there are so many different forces at play. Jennifer, you lived the 2016 president ial election in a close up way. Is it hard for you to believe it facebook had an impact . It is the most powerful platform the universe has ever seen. It more than any entity, press or otherwise, was the platform from which people learned news about the president ial campaign. So, it had an extraordinary impact. And i think that they had a it sort of fascinates me to watch, makes me want to put on my jambies, put on some popcorn and watch it all unfold and watch them struggle with their failure of imagination. These are people supposed to be the most imaginative people on the planet. They had a failure to appreciate how bad the problem was at best or cover it up, a failure of imagination to how you wrestle with it. Thats what plagued the clinton campaign, in terms of both facebook, concern about bots, concern about trolls, where they were coming from as well as have people wrap their heads around what russia might be doing. You, i know, have some instincts that are a little like mine. Nobody forces you to sign up for facebook. Nobody forced you to join the service. Nobody forced you to click that button when it would ask you when you were signing founder a thirdparty app. Were going to transfer your data to this app so it can interact with facebook. People are sentient beings. I find the word trust to be utterly ridiculous. Of course, you shouldnt trust facebook. There should be nothing on there that you consider private information in any way. You should all know that there are people working at the company youre using to deliver your email who can read your email all day. There is nothing private about it. Theyve made you no promises that they wont. They can all do it and they do. There are people sitting there and they might have some Company Rules that say, you shouldnt do it. But you know there are people who are just thats how they spend their afternoon in their down time. These companies shouldnt be trusted. If youre going to use them, you should use them in a way that doesnt require trust. Dont give them anything that requires you to trust them. The interesting thing is every time you click a story, every time you move throughout your page, you are giving them a sense of your choices, your desires, what attracts you, what outrages you. Whats interesting here for me at least is facebook, we talked about the manufacture of consent. What facebook did was the manufacture of dissent, by separating us out, generating outrage over clinton emails, silence with regards to black lives matter. All the things that place us in our silos, then look what happened. I have to say i did not think today i would get the opportunity to speak to my friend john battell and have chomski at the same time. Thank you. If you have any thoughts on the 2016 Campaign Cycle, it was brutal, you probably do. It was pretty brutal. It might be a little more brutal next time around if the preview we saw last night is what its going to look like. Look at that next. Your body was made for Better Things than rheumatiod arthritis. Before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. Xeljanz xr is a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. 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I said if were in high school, i would take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him. [ cheering and applause ] i shouldnt have said that. But then i was told that was just locker room talk. Well ive been in a lot of locker rooms and a pretty damn good athlete. Any guy who talked that way was the fattest, ugliest s. O. B. In the room. For real. That was the former Vice President of the United States speaking in florida yesterday. With a familiar jab against President Trump and trump being trump that is not someone who is not prone to let any slight go unanswered under any circumstances and he was up this morning on twitter putting this out. Quote, crazy joe biden is trying to act like a tough guy. Actually he is weak mentally and physically and yet he threatened for me the second time. With physical assault he doesnt know me but he would go down fast and hard, crying all the way. Dont threaten people, joe. The panel is back for a little of this discussion. I ask you, jennifer, let me start with you, what is joe biden up to . If he is thinking about running for president in 2020, is that just joe being joe or is there a tactical or strategic ju ju going on there by reviving this long forgotten controversy. My experience with joe biden, who like most people who worked for president obama got to know well and love and adore, is that that is joe being joe. But that is also joe reflecting what he says privately all of the time. Hes when you see him speak publicly, it is reflective of what hes also been saying. I think there is an element to him that a tough kid grew up in the streets of scranton, pennsylvania, that liked to take on the rich kid from new york city. But i dont suspect that that kind of dialogue is what people are going to want on the democratic side in 2020. Once we actually get there. Although it is nice to see somebody take trump on in this way. Really . You tell me. Tell me about let me ask you both the same question which is it seems to me this is joe biden reading the wind and weather of the Democratic Base and saying what they want is someone who would take donald trump out to the wood shed and beat the hell out of him. So ill be the guy who says that. Some people might want that. Probably not 70 plusyearold men behind the wood shed trying to beat the crap out of each other. And i think also we need to see this also as toxic masculinity. Where you have people trying to in some ways perform their manhood by threatening im going to beat up folks in defense of and of x, y and z and trumps response is that kind of masculinity at the very top. And one of the things that were experiencing in this meto movement is a fundament attack on that way of being in the world. So it may have some political kind of currency but at the heart of what we are experiencing today, it is to attack that notion of masculinity as it is. And even when it is trying to be chauffeur in this business by joe biden. In joe bidens case, it is often not method. And i used to sit there in the senate floor when as a staff aide and joe biden would have a good solid 12 minute speech that would last 90 minutes because once joe gets going, he keeps going and doesnt need text and says things that come into his mind at that moment that he absolutely does d not plan to say and know he didnt because he has that Judiciary Hearing Committee to go back to and still stand here and say this. So most of that is something that happened in that moment. I do think it is important to point out that the words of what joe biden said really matter and theyre very, very different from trump language in this arena. He said at the beginning, if we were in high school, theyre not in high school. So hes just saying, this is a way into the way i used to think when i was a kid and this guy trump provokes in me the kinds of impulses you have when you are a kid, if we were in high school. And he said that right after he said would you beat the hell out of him. He says i shouldnt have said that. Donald trump has never done that. Hes never made it theoretical to if he is a kid or after a threat, i shouldnt have said that. Joe biden is self aware enough to know where he was when those words came out of his mouth. And so it is i very different thing from what trump does. We have no time and just yes or no. Joe biden going to run in 2020, yes or no. Yes. Yes. Yes or no. No. Well come back at some point. Mine was a prediction. Was that a wish. Prediction and the wish and the thought. When we come back, it is possible that donald trump thought that we werent listening to what he just said but well bring you to that well bring that to you right now, in a second. After this break. I try to take care of my teeth, but theres acid in what i eat and drink everyday that can do damage over a lifetime. So my dentist told me to gopro with crest prohealth. Crest prohealth protects against acids in everyday food and drinks better than regular toothpaste. Thats how you nail a checkup. Crest. Not in this house. cause thats no average family. Thats your family. Which is why you didnt grab just any cheese. You picked up kraft mozzarella with a touch of philadelphia for lasanyeah kraft. Family greatly. What advice would you give to the 25yearold donald trump knowing what you know today . Dont run for president. [ laughter ] i love the way he was asked that question and answered right from the heart and so honestly and almost immediately it was kind of great. I think he was telling the truth. A rarity from donald trump. My thanks to the great eddie glad, and jennifer palmyary and lets not compare. This is little league. Everyone gets a trophy. Make sure you watch tonight at 10 00 on the last word and we have Michael Avenatti and check that out. That does it for us this hour. Im john heilman in for Nicolle Wallace and now im late, chuck, dont be mad but i will get you what i said yesterday. I didnt hear it but im cashing that check. If i