Diplomat about russian interference. You employed aides and advisors with known ties to russia and other foreign governments and one of those aides was under fbi surveillance as early as 2013. If you cant find the one click button, maybe this response from former cia director john brennan who was our guest on friday will inspire you to look somewhere other than twitter for answers. Brennan writing, quote, this fweet is a great example of your paranoia, constant misrepresentation of the facts and increased anxiety and panic rightly so about the Mueller Investigation. Where will those in congress and the 30 of americans who still support you realize you are charlatan . The president is correct to feel increasingly panicked. Heres what his aides are saying about his vulnerability in the Mueller Probe. You sat there in that room being questioned by muellers investigators. I want to hear directly from you, do you think that they have something on the president . I think they may. I think that he may have done something, but i dont know that for sure. Why do you think that . I cant explain that unless you were in there. Explain the atmosphere. The way they ask questions about anything i heard after i was fired from the campaign, to the general election, to even november 1. He insinuated to me he may have done something and he may very well have. If you got that sense, if you got that sense from the special counsels investigators, why would you not want to cooperate with them . If you got a sense that something because im not interested in handing all my emails former Campaign Aide sam nunberg saying he is refusing to comply with a grand jury subpoena in the Mueller Probe. The subpoena seeking his communications with President Trump and nine other individuals. Here to help talk us through all of this today, White House ReporterAshley Parker with the washington post. Jointing us at the table michael schmidt, and frank figliuzzi. National Affairs Analyst john heilman, and a. B. Today art, with real clear politics. Ashley, youve just come from the white house briefing. I want to get your thoughts on Sarah Huckabee sanderss response. The former Campaign Aide is refusing a subpoena by grand jury. He just said on msnbc moments ago, i think he, meaning the president , may have done something during the election, but i dont know that for sure your reaction . Well, i definitely think he doesnt know that for sure because hes incorrect. As weve said many times before, there was no collusion with the Trump Campaign. Anything further on what his actions are, he hasnt worked at the white house, so i certainly cant speak to him or the lack of knowledge that he clearly has. Im not going to weigh into somebody that doesnt work at the white house. I can tell you from our perspective we are fully cooperating with the office of the special counsel. Were going to continue to do so. And ill reiterate once again, the reason we are so comfortable doing so is because there is absolutely no collusion. So, ashley, whenever Sarah Huckabee sanders answers questions she wasnt asked, i always grow a little suspicious. What is the behind the scenes reaction to what was really a stunning Tour De Force from sam nunberg on our air with katy tur a couple hours ago . So, you know, publicly what you just played Sarah Huckabee sanders basically reiterated the white houses talking point and the president s talking point, which we all know which is no collusion, its a hoax, the probe is a witch hunt. But i do have to say sam nunberg is someone who almost since the day he was fired from the Trump Campaign has infuriated the campaign and now this white house. He is one of the people who if his name appears in a story that any reporter writes, im sure you know this as well, but everyone sort of goes crazy and sort of gets spun up into a frenzy. So, lets just say today his interview at the post, his interview with katy tur after which he called into cnn, that reaction from the white house, imagine it on steroids. Well, and i guess john heilman, it raises a question about whether or not trump was hiring the best people or not. These are the people who have been subpoenaed by Robert Mueller. Right. There is so much to say here. You know, sam nunberg is a complicated character and someone who has been involved was involved with trump for a long time before trump decided to run for president. Hes someone who proudly claims roger stone as his political mentor. He left the campaign in august of 2015. People remember donald trump announced for president in the spring of 2015. By august sam nunberg was out over having allegedly written some offensive racist facebook posts years earlier. Before russia. He continued to hover in the trump orbit along with roger stone. Along with up poom not connected to the campaign, Corey Lewandowski, he didnt like those people. He was in a huge feud with donald trump. This dark circle of people that hovered around the Trump Campaign throughout, and he is someone who does not know very much operationally about what happened from the time in august that he left the campaign all the way through to election day. Yet what he does know about he knows about trumps years in the wilderness. He knows about that period of time between 2012 and 2015 when trump was thinking about running for president. And was contemplating, he was building up his right wing base and was doing some things that apparently are very much in the cross hairs of Robert Mueller at this point in terms of his relationship with russia. So, and i said in jest the activity to russia, bob mueller hasnt answered that question yet. Let me put up a list of the subpoena nbc news obtained. I think there is reason to connect this now to sam nunberg. These were a list of people that bob mueller wanted to see all of a witnesss communications with. Steve bannon, michael cohen, rick gates, hope hicks, Corey Lewandowski, carter page, Keith Shiller and roger stone. What do you make, michael schmidt, of this line of questioning and something you and i talk about all the time about the two tracks of the Mueller Probe, the collusion investigation, the obstruction investigation. Clearly theres more attention being paid to what director brennan testified to last spring, the witting or unwitting cooperation between russia and some members of the Trump Campaign. I mean in some ways the subpoena makes sense. These are all folks that are in this orbit and mueller wants to gather everything. And he knows that if there is one stone that he doesnt turnover, that if he ever closes up shop and anything else comes out, then hes going to get criticized. So he has to look at everything and he has to cast his net far and wind. The thing about the number thing that just always reminds me is that we have so little insight into mueller. We have so little understanding. All of a sudden a few weeks ago he pops the indictment against 13 russians no one thought that was coming. So, were basing our understanding of mueller on some, you know, feelings and thoughts that sam nunberg had in his thing where you had to be in the room to understand it. And that just shows us how far we are from really knowing whats going on. But we do know that bob mueller is likely to this is an aggressive investigation and an equally aggressive prosecution of people who commit crimes. Correct me if im wrong, but failing to comply with a subpoena is a crime called contempt, right . So, nicolle, a federal subpoena, the language in it doesnt say pretty please appear before the grand jury or if you can squeeze in some time for us. It says you are here by commanded to appear of about the grand jury on friday at a specific time. This is not a game. Sam nunberg is rattling a cage that hes going to regret rattling and quite frankly hes going to give us all some insight into what might happen if even higher level people decide not to appear at a grand jury and mueller is going to demonstrate that. And, Ashley Parker, are people at the white house prepared for the first witness in the Mueller Probe to go to jail for refusing to comply with one of special counsel Robert Muellers subpoenas . I have to say the sam nunberg news broke as i was walking into the briefing so i dont necessarily have any real time reaction s to that. But i think there is a sense that this is surprising only in that their public line and private line, everyone is cooperating. Not these people who have been cast out of the president s orbit, but at least within the people who work in the white house, the one sort of mantra like thing they repeat to reassure themselves is everyone is cooperating and ty cobb has told them if they cooperate everything will be fine. That is what they are doing. I do think sort of in general terms, the idea that someone would possibly go to jail is sort of not in line with that talking point at all. A. B. , lets listen to a little more of this and talk about it on the other side. What if people think it looks suspicious . Let them think what they want. You know what . Im the first person to go out here and say, im not cooperating because its absolutely ridiculous what they want from me. Katy, i spend 80 hours going over emails with are you worried about being held in contempt of court . Lets see what mr. Mueller does. Are you worried about getting arrested . I think it would be funny if they arrested me. Bob mueller probably does, too. I mean, he doesnt play. I worked with him. I worked in the Bush White House when he was the fbi director. He doesnt crack jokes. He doesnt play. And im sure there is nothing funny to him about the investigation to potential collusion with russia being impeded by this clown. There are a lot of characters around the trump universe that have this kind of attitude, which is we dont care, were burning it down, everything is funny. Let them come at me. This might be sort of this misguided naive attempt to we wrangle some immunity from mueller. I dont know what sam nunberg is up to. John was right. He was there at a critical time in 2013 after romney lost and are trump trademarked make America Great again. Nunberg listened to thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of trump radio. Hes not only close with stone, he was close with steve bannon who until six weeks ago knew everything. He has been there all along. He knows everything that happened in 16 and 17 and into 2018. So the idea that he thinks he can sort of pop off, hes a sideline character in this drama, this is so much fun, he can do tv interviews about it. He obviously is being questioned about something substantive. Lets be clear. Sam nunberg is the person who introduced donald trump to steve bannon and first put him on bannons radio show. In that period trump was in the wilderness. You listen to sam nunberg in this interview. Some people heard it and people all over twitter, has he been drinking . Having some familiarity with drinking in the afternoon, he didnt sound drunk to me. He isnt slurring his speech. Is he cracking under pressure . Thats possible. But its clear at the end at some point katy asked him, are you willing to go to jail for this. He said Robert Mueller is not going to put me in jail. It was literally the dumbest thing he said in the interview. If you look at the actions mueller has taken in the case, i think mueller would like Nothing Better than to put somebody in jail over contempt or failing to comply with the subpoena. He tried to set examples with paul manafort, hes trying to send messages to everyone that he is serious and that hes going to treat no one with kid gloves. I think hed be perfectly happy to take sam nunberg if sam holds out and doesnt comply with the subpoena. If he finds a new lawyer he suggested in the interview his lawyer was going to dump him. Im sure thats in the offing. If he finds a lawyer hes going to say this is not an optional thing. You have to comply. If he sticks to his guns, i think Robert Mueller would be happy to make an example of sam nunberg and put him in jail. It would be the best thing that could happen for him and send a message to everybody else were not screwing around here. You agree . Indeed. This is an opportunity for mueller to send a true message for people who are quite frankly much bigger fish. Right. If they dont cooperate. Im also intrigued, nicolle, of the list of people lets put that up again. These are the people. I guess to your point, michael schmidt, the best peek we get at what mueller is up to is through these figures that seem to have potentially been drinking. John about daytime drinking. That never crossed my mind. Come over my house one afternoon. Well have a lot of fun. She laughed. Sometimes the biggest sort of look into what hes doing is from the most obscure characters. Im thinking of the guilty plea from papadopoulos. Im thinking of all the Bizarre Television appearances by carter page and all of the sort of escapades around the news. There was all about politicizing the fisa process when you learn in 2013 before donald trump, you know, i think he hadnt even really hit his stride on the birther movement, they were surveilling carter page. I think the bigger question i have for both of you as mueller watchers, obviously none of us believes mueller would hesitate for a moment to put him in jail for refusing to cooperate with the subpoena. But what is the bigger are he with missing the forestry through the trees . What is the Bigger Picture of of the email communication between steve bannon, hope hicks, manafort, shiller and stone, these are all the people i guess printed out articles and put them in Donald Trumps hands. These are all the people donald trump scribbled a note on papers, get this out. Im going to retract my joke. I wasnt kidding. Maybe he was the kind of guy who was ing at the the russians the kind of divisions that would be helpful to a candidate to donald trump. These have to be open questions in the Mueller Probe. A couple thoughts here. First, its not unusual to list a number of people that you want communications about when youre really only interested in one or two of them. Youre throwing the others in as a smoke screen because you know this is going to go public perhaps. So youve got that issue. The other is that mueller team likely already has many of the communications and simply has right. Some puzzle pieces need to be filled in. Thats whats going 0 not. That list is not a complicated list. With the exception of carter page who was not a member of the trump inner circle, everybody else on that list is a trump inner circle member at one time or another. Every one on that list. The inner circle k45id over time, but there was a time when the inner circle was roger stone and sam nunberg. As you move through time Corey Lewandowski took a place. Everybody on the list you just read except carter page was someone who was at the core of Donald Trumps political operation at some point between 2013 and election day 2016. Thats the list. Michael schmidt, we understand on another interview sam nunberg conducted recently, he said there was no way donald trump didnt know about the meeting at trump tower with don junior and Jared Kushner to get dirt on hillary clinton. Now, he was with governor Chris Christie that day. I believe they attended a fundraiser in manhattan, but he was in the building that day. That seems like the kind of line of questioning that mueller may have pursued with nunberg. Well, if nunberg is being truthful in saying that he would go to jail for this, that is reserved for the most severe cases. These are for journalists who dont want to go before a grand jury and give up their sources. For barry bonds trainer who didnt want to tell what he injected barry bond with. These are people who have secrets to hide to hold onto to protect other people. If thats the case, he really must have something. The other thing were seeing the evolution of this here, no one wanted to be associated with trump. He had some misfits around him. This investigation gives him currency. Sam nunberg all of a sudden because mueller wants to talk to him is relevant again. Right. Hes on television. Hes talking. People want to hear what he has to say. Thats trump world in the middle of an investigation. One more quick thing, though. Just because even when sam nunberg was on the outs with trump, he wasener on t never on with roger stone. How much communication roger stone had with trump in 2016. Roger always plays very coy about that. Theres no question mueller is looking at roger stone, especially in the way he tipped the hand on the Podesta Emails ahead of time. So, if you wanted to try to figure out what was stones role, was he in some way connected to wikileaks, was he some some way connected to the russians. One of the people you would look at communications, sam nunberg and roger stone i would imagine, just speculation, they would be texting or emailing each other multiple times a day for all of 2015 and all of 2016. Those people are extraordinarily close. And stone, sam nunberg you might want to laugh off as not a central player. Roger stone might be a central player in the question of collusion with russia, might be. We dont have any sense. We always talk about russian collusion as though it happened in the past. The truth is this is the most sort of proputin administration in modern american history. We dont have evidence these contacts arent ongoing. Its possible hes protecting something more current because, youre right, why give up don junior and jared who were in that meeting in trump tower. I mean, maybe we know that donald trump doesnt quit people after he fires them. Maybe theres a more recent communication that theyre protecting. There could very well be. In fact, there is reason to believe if collusion existed, it is still ongoing in the form of doing absolutely nothing about russian propaganda, social media, attempts to and successfully compromise certain states Voter Registration logs. Were getting nothing on that. So, indeed, we have a proputin administration and why. Thats the question that mueller is trying to answer. Ashley, your piece kept me awake all weekend inside the sort of mad kings mad west wing. This mornings tweet seems like a perfect book end to what you had an extraordinary reporting. Pure madness, dark days inside the white house as trump rages. He kept that up blaming the obama office at the start of the show. Any insight to where the staff stands on the twitter feed . Have they thrown up their hands, are they busy fighting with each other . Staff long ago recognized that President Trumps twitter feed is simply something they cannot control. They just cant. Ive talked to staffers who said in the early days of the administration, they used to get incredibly nervous and their hearts used to race when they would see a new tweet. And now, to be clear, they dont like it, but they realize its just a reality. Its something theyre going to have to respond to. And there are certain rhythms to this chaotic white house. Uf you have to know after a week like last week with the chaos, with the tumult, no staff was surprise today wake up to that sentiment on twitter. So, i want to ask you, michael schmidt, weve normalized trump to the point where we use words like unsupervised to speak about the leader of the free world. I wonder if you have any insight into how the Mueller Investigation talks about him and their investigation with witnesses. They certainly the law doesnt discriminate or grade on a curve the way some of us do when we talk about him incessantly. I wonder if you have any insight into how the investigators talk about him. Thats whats interesting. What nunberg said is the thing you have to be in the room to understand it. Thats a thing i think is difficult for witnesses, is to really know what they have. For my sense of trying to understand that, these prosecutors dont give a lot. They dont show a lot. There is not a lot of, okay, hey, guys, this is what we found, kind of sharing with them. They have to show enough to get more information. But this is not something where i think witnesses walk out of there. They are at times presented with emails. Oh, heres an email. Ment the witness will have to look at it. There was newspaper reporting. Do you know anything about that . Theres no give and take. Theyre not sharing. Thank you for starting us off on a truly remarkable day. When with he come back, making russia great again donald trump 120 million designated to fight russian meddling and not 1 was spent. Also ahead, the pure madness, ashleys stunning account of what insiders are describing as the darkest days of the Trump Presidency and the policy spasms that ensue. After a dvt blood clot. I sure had a lot on my mind. My 30year marriage. My 3month old business. Plus. What if this happened again . I was given warfarin in the hospital, but wondered, was this the best treatment for me . So i made a point to talk to my doctor. He told me about eliquis. Eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots and reduces the risk of them happening again. Not only does eliquis treat dvt and pe blood clots. Eliquis also had significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. Eliquis had both. And that turned around my thinking. Dont stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. If you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. And it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots. Plus had less major bleeding. Both made eliquis right for me. Ask your doctor if switching to eliquis is right for you. Burned me up and down, shno way to cool it. Every time you kiss me its like sunshine and whiskey applebees handcrafted burgers. Any burger just 7. 99. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. Only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. They release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. Tylenol® you know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. Contrary to what the president tweeted this morning, there is indeed someone who has done nothing to combat russian med alleg medaling, but his name is not president obama. Its donald trump of course. The New York Times offers another troubling data point. The state department has yet to spend any of the 120 million that has been allocated since late 2016 to counter foreign efforts to meddle in elections. As a result, not one of the 23 analysts working in the Departments Global Engagement Center which has been tasked with countering moscows Disinformation Campaign speaks russian. Chew on that for a second. And a department hiring freeze has hindered efforts to recruit the computer experts needs today track. My cohost and coexecutive producer of the circus along with john heilman. The new season kicks off next month. So glad youre here. You didnt know what a good name the circus was. When we first came up with it we were a little worried it was going to be over the top. That was early in 2015. That was, that was before it became the understatement. Plus we thought it was a metaphor. We didnt think it would actually be a guy who would be p. T. Barn um the sword barrel swallower in one. Youre back out on the trail in some ways. Not much as changed. We still have an unanswered question about Donald Trumps degree of contact and coordination with the russians, his orbits degree and contact. We have established now many people on his campaign were in frequent contact with russians. But we now have a president who is our commander in chief has done nothing to protect the country. I want to show you some of his Top National Security officials talking about the real world implications of that. Is the u. S. Better prepared this time around than 2016 . I dont know that i would say were better prepared because the russians will adapt as well. If the point is if it is their intention to interfere, theyre going to find ways to do that. Has the president directed you and your agency to take specific actions to confront and blunt russian influence activities that are ongoing . Were taking a lot of specific efforts to blunt directed by the president . Not specifically directed by the president. My concern is i believe that president putin has clearly come to the conclusion there is little price to pay here. Bingo. Clearly what weve done hasnt been enough. The secretary of state saying, russians are adaptable. They used to say that about us. You have emma rogers saying putin has the impression from the way this white house has led on russia that there are no consequence for their ongoing efforts. Youve got an entire National Security apparatus completely paralyzed when it comes to being on offense against russia. Well, i think this raises a lot more red flags than any of the previous alleged activity. This isnt alleged. This is real inactivity, nonresponse, and it just raises so many questions. And you have not only a nonresponse from the u. S. Administration, current administration, but you have russians in the government and associates of putin government right now saying, sure were going to do this and were going to do a lot more of it. Were going to take every advantage we can. Thats what they do. They basically said were going to do more of this and we said were not going to do anything about it. All of this, the u. S. Senate voted for russian sanctions 982. The administration has blocked imposing those sanctions. Thats a pretty big giant thing in addition to the stuff weve been citing. You think about the trade war trump is about to enter into. If Vladimir Putin could want anything in the world, it would be the United States of america slapping tariffs on its allies that trade with it in terms of steel and aluminum and start a trade war among the countries of nato. Thats what youre seeing here. Again, the great dream of putin is not just that trump is not doing anything to look into election meddling, but the big geo strategic, geo economic geopolitical issues, trump is doing what putin would want on all of them. If you have these allegations against it, you would show youre taking some action. If you take none, what does that say . What does it say about his National Security team that all of them, when theyre forced to testify under oath, admit Christopher Wray looked so pained having to admit because he was under oath that the president has never directed him to do anything. Admiral rogers is practically laying on the table. I i tell my 6yearold to sit up. Slumped over on the table. Elizabeth warren and Claire Mccaskill said, why cant you sit in that chair and say youre doing something. Mr. Magoo, he looked like the guy ready to rollover for putin. Theyre willing to stay in their jobs but not do anything for america. Every day you ask yourself if you made the nation safer. Your colleagues ask the same, did we make america safer. That testimony looked to me like people saying, i could be doing a better job but im not being allowed to. Thats what it looked like to me. I want to stick up for dan coates. Lets he said i want to sound the alarm we are under attack, forced to agree with him. Cia mike pompeo, good friend with President Trump, agreed with him. Why are they forced to agree . Why are we conceding this frame that the National Security apparatus of america is forced to agree why . The policies dont do anything and they know that and theyre not going to defy the commander in chief. Because the commander in chief is not giving them that positive direction. They havent received the order. Were left to our own devices. The president s inaction leads us to draw certain conclusions. Theyre not acr5689tion but theres a hand frl of them. Hes compromised and cant do anything to upset the russians. Hes done something illegal with the russians and doesnt want that coming out. Or hes looking forward to the midterm elections and wants to be able to say theres chaos here and we cant trust the results of these elections. You both nodded. Mark and then john. There is no other conclusion to draw than there is something compromised, there is something russia has or there is some activity the there is no other rationale for this behavior. Not to respond to a direct threat. Not just a perceived threat. It is one that has been pronounced by russia itself. You nodded, too. It was true at the campaign, even before he took office. If you looked at the things he said on the campaign trail, what he said about putin as a candidate, the ways in which he begged for Hillary Clintons emails. Just the public statements on the basis of what this is why he raised in the tweet this morning, part of the reason why the Obama Administration up to the president of the United States at the time was so concerned, forget about the fisa warrants. But was in december and january of 2016, 17 as they were about to walk out the door, why were they worried . Because they watched donald trump behave the way he behaved in clear public view. In a way that was only explicable in these terms. There was no it was already it was already pointing you to the notion that he was in some way compromised and everything thats happened since then suggests has hammered home the obvious, kind of obvious primea facie case. Why not spend a dollar against russia . It cost you nothing. Let me put you in the spot. If it is obvious to everyone here, why doesnt paul ryan given the chance to take devin nuness side who proves to be game for trump scandal or Christopher Wray, someone with decades of integrity, when they walk into paul ryans office, do something about devin nunes and the release of this memo that distorts the fbi, what happened to who stole paul ryans spine . Thats a really amazing question because he found some today on tariffs. Yeah. Cares about trade, doesnt care about russia. Devin nunes has no credibility, and that is not a partisan statement. Im being objective here. A month ago, senator burr who is running a Senate Intelligence investigation into russian collusion with mark warner went into paul ryans office also to complain that devin nunes had leaked mark warners text to fox. Mark warner is so clean on this issue of this request for a meeting with Christopher Steele and the texts marco rubio defended him on twitter and burr his fellow republican and his chairman went in to plead with the speaker to control devin nunes. Nunes and ryan are old friends. Nunes has endeared himself to the leadership by being a very energetic and eager puppy all along. And he has a lot of loyalty and a lot of fondness within the ranks of the leadership. But its very, very tough for paul ryan to explain himself in both those examples. Why does he tolerate the corruption of devin nunes, though . You just asserted something that is obvious. There is a corruption to the way devin nunes has gone about conducting his investigation over the grave concerns of the fbi. The fbi, which under Christopher Wray has done just about everything the president has wanted him to do, not always on his time line, but a andy mccabe son his way out. The general counsel is on his way out. All of the people donald trump has attacked on twitter under chris wray being reorganized, if you will, to the chagrin of many career lifelong fbi folks as i understand it. True. Why is paul ryan going along with the corruption of the House Intel Committee . Well, like many issues involving trump and this whole situation on capitol hill, theyre trying to remain silent. Its not that hes sticking up for devin nunes in public. Hes trying to make this go away. Thats usually what, if you see trey gowdy, the Oversight Committee chairman, one minute hes dee fefending the credibil of bob mueller and everything hes doing, the next minute hes going deep state. He does a straddle if you watch what hes doing. Theyre trying to keep 1 foot in the land of the trump voter and the other foot in some kind of integrity of yore. I have no idea where this is going to end. When you talk to senators privately, if you ask them, is the president compromised and guilty of potentially financial crimes and bob mueller is going to have him dead to rights with the paper works, what are you going to do . Well find out when you do. Paul ryan did defend nunes in that moment when the memo was coming out. He came out and said we have to look at the fbi. Separate from the Mueller Investigation. The fbi needs to be cleansed and purged, those are words that came out of paul ryans mouth. I will say one thing. One difference, here, why does paul ryan have a spine on tariffs . Because the republican donor class cares about tariffs. Thats one thing he has consistent, on tax cuts or Something Like this where the corporate wing of the Republican Party is deeply concerned about the tariffs issue. Ryan will find his soul and spine on that. Also just believe it. Tariffs, still meddle in everybodys democracy. After the break, dark days inside the white house as staff split do you understand the middle arm wrestling over president 1458 policy. Why one advisor said its just like trumps own tv show. Dont we need that cable box to watch tv . Nope. Dont we need to run . Nope. It just explodes in a high pitched yeahhh. yeahhh try directv now for 10 a month for 3 months. No satellite needed. Were all under one roof now. Congratulations. Thank you. How many kids . My two. His three. Along with two dogs and jake, our new parrot. That is quite the family. Quite a lot of colleges to pay for though. A lot of colleges. You get any Financial Advice . Yeah, but im pretty sure its the same plan they sold me before. Well your situations totally changed now. Right, right. How bout a plan that works for 5 kids, 2 dogs and jake over here . That would be great. That would be great. That okay with you, jake . Get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change from Td Ameritrade investment management. I accept i dont i even accept i i used thave a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. But no matter where i ride, i go for my best. So if theres Something Better than warfarin, ill go for that too. Eliquis. Eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. Eliquis had both. Dont stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. And it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Im still going for my best. And for eliquis. Ask your doctor about eliquis. I we worked with pg eof to save energy because wenie. Wanted to help the school. They would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didnt cut off the light. The teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. So they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. We actually saved 50,000. And thats just one school, two semesters, three girls. Together, were building a better california. Donald trump presides over a white house divided into two factions, fighting tooth and nail for his approval and the reality show comparison doesnt stop there. From the washington post, trumps aide said his vas ligs was a function of the controlled chaos the president likes to sow. Trump recently has come to favor opening his meetings to the media. Its like his own tv show says one advisor where he chooses outlandish ideas and plays to the press and talks bipartisan consensus even if it never leads to actual policy. The panel is back. I want your thoughts on this. This feels to me like where we are getting played. Totally played. Thats what the advisor said. Theyre admitting this is a complete act. This is his reality show. He opens it up to the press. Says everything that everybody wants to hear. None of it ever becomes law. Nothing ever happens. Then he gets turned around completely no matter what he says that night by stephen miller, whoever walks into the oval office and has a policy discussion with them. I continue to think, i thought from the moment he announced the tariffs, i dont think were going to see the tariffs. I dont think theyre going to be imposed or there is going to be some 2 tariff, some very limited small thing so he can say he did something. I think the thing was just purely acting out, trying to get ratings, trying to make people look at it. He was clearly angry ask discombobulated last week. I dont think the reporting about the dark crazy i think were going to see a lot of out of controlness. I think he loves it. Once he sort of figured this little act out, were going to see a ton of these televised briefings with donald trump and assembled democrats and republicans. And one of the hallmarks of an uh to be autocracy of staterun media, he has one news network that will ti take him, hes flossing. He makes it appear something is news worthy, invite the cameras in. What do you think of observing other countries like that . I think its a distraction. Its a smoke screen. Hes learned to use it skillfully the. The nations i worked against in Counter Intelligence 25 years are adept at that and controlling the media and owning the media and owning the message. And hes taking a page right out of their play book. And we need to keep reminding ourselves of that. What are the countries weve seen this before and do we want to be like them. Im sorry, previous president s would never do this because there would be a cost to it. The price would be if you squander your credibility, you keep saying youre going to do them, promising, your credibility is shot. He has no credibility to begin with. He lies constantly. One of the weird side effects of lying constantly and coming to the conclusion in his mind hes paid no price for it, there is no price. How is this different from every other lie he tells . He tells all these lies and none of them are hes the credibility is just not there any more so in a weird way by lying so much hes gotten hes taken away the potential price he would pay for making misstatements or using these kind of smoke screens on issues of policy and substance. I want to ask you, because i think people who watch this show have a strong point of view. If anyone ever leaked any video of me from the control room, it be would me screaming get out of that when donald trump is beeping. I hope they just laughed in the control room. As a journalist, but not someone sort of responsible for what ends up on your own hour of television, what is your advice to people in television about him taking the entire body of Donald Trumps campaign, how it was covered, up to this moment of his presidency . Well, its hard because it is a story and so especially when hes going to flirt with Dianne Feinstein over a bill of love and then again over guns, you know, its news. So, someone is going to pay even if nothing happens. Right. Its still sort of the news of the day. He is the consummate subject changer and it is probably the fit over everything that was happening, probably led to the announcement on the tariffs. Though i do think in one instances a loud and proud protectionist. He has had this fixationist, once commanding economy in japan to speak about the japanese, then he switched to the chinese. I do know that congressmen can do a lot in the next couple days in his administration. But hes going to bang his fists over this one. But on guns and on immigration and a lot of these issues, he doesnt really care. Theres no ten minutes from now. Its literally the 5 inches of oxygen in front of him. And it is a big complaint. You can talk to people, democrats who thought, you know, the cables took two hours of his rallies, half an hour before, the whole rally, half an hour afterwards, they gave more than 2 billion in free coverage. Of course he won. He never went to a coffee shop. It was all about the donald trump show. And that is a real problem. We can see a billionaire with superduper name i. D. Come back in in the next cycle and this could be how you win the oval office. We have no idea whether were going to go back to retail campaigning and earning it the hard way. We have no idea if hes turned this into a permanent tv show. Were powerless to determine what is the definition of use. Him babbling and we all know its b. S. How do you stop that . How do you stop that . I feel like i have an honorary little degree here from the circus. Im a big fan. Ive watched every except sewed. You have the opportunity to curate a weeks worth of political news and how would you make the editorial decision about, you know because by sunday night well know what was b. S. , what was play for the camera and what was real. And to be totally honest, the trap that we fall in here is when something is ongoing, we dont know if it will turnout to be true. We dont know if it will turnout to be real so we sort of have to make these difficult decisions. You have a week to decide. With do. And that gives us an opportunity to digest and think through thematics a week rather than a daily news thing when news is changing every five minutes. Often well plan something monday or tuesday and we have to scrap it on thursday. We plan things at noon, scrap it at 1 00. So much happens so fast and what were discovering, i was skeptical about the show working when it was not campaign. People are fascinated. Its a civics lesson. They want tour guides like you and you to help them figure this out and to provide a greater deeper meaning. Because we have a week were going to try and dive in for example, we did one full weeks episode on wikileaks. I learned so much about that. Me, too. I was shocked when i discovered what was going on. And it was so much broader than the daily News Coverage of wikileaks. So were going to try and do a lot more of that. Back to your point, wikileaks, another tool, governments that most americans dont think by the way, that was the episode roger stone said its over when we say its over. Really quick, theyre screaming at me. The answer to your question is hes the president of the United States. We have to cover the things he says. We just need to cover them with context and we need to cover them skeptically. When he lies we have to call them lies. When its b. S. We have to call it b. S. Like the students in parkland. Calling b. S. Is our job. We cant just say, well, were not going to cover the tweets. Hes the president of the United States. We have to cover it all and then call it out when its another smoke screen or a tactic or propaganda or just plain b. S. Youre making me on xanax. Thank you for saying that. More from former trump aides no one ever said that to me before. I struggle with this. More from the trump aide sam nunberg, what hes saying about the explosive tellall written by Michael Wolff earlier this year and what it might mean for bob mueller. Hes a nascar champion whos faced thousands of drivers. Shes a worldclass swimmer whos stared down the best in her sport. But for both of them, the most challenging opponent was. Pe blood clots in my lung. It was really scary. A dvt in my leg. I had to learn all i could to help protect myself. My doctor and i choose xarelto® xarelto®. To help keep me protected. Xarelto® is a latestgeneration blood thinner. Thats proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots from happening again. In clinical studies, almost 98 of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. Heres how xarelto works. Xarelto® works differently. Warfarin interferes with at least six bloodclotting factors. Xarelto® is selective. Targeting just one critical factor, interacting with less of your bodys natural bloodclotting function. Dont stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor as this may increase risk of blood clots. While taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. It may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. Xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. Get help right away for unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. If youve had spinal anesthesia, watch for back pain or any nerve or musclerelated signs or symptoms. Do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. Tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures and before starting xarelto® about any conditions, such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. Youve got to learn all you can. To help protect yourself from dvt and pe blood clots. Talk to your doctor about xarelto®. Theres more to know. Are made with smarttrack®igners material to precisely move your teeth to your best smile. See how invisalign® treatment can shape your smile up to 50 faster today at invisalign. Com [seen it. Covered it. N. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum gasp singsong budget meeting sweet. If you compare last quarter to this quarter. Various mmm. Its no wonder everything seems a little better with the creamy taste of philly, made with fresh milk and real cream. Sam, did you find an email in the last 24 hours that made you worried . An email you dont want to hand over. A text message i dont want to hang over. [ inaudible ]. It is just a question off the top of my head. No, i did not. In fact, you know what i did, katy, i did not go over any of my mails since ive been contacted by them. And the other thing, katy, that really upset me was not not upset me i was very low on this list. Okay. I have to spend 50,000 on legal fees and i was low on this list and then suddenly when they called me, when they called me, katy, after Michael Wolffs book came out. And they asked me a bunch of things in there about roger and me after we were fired. Were back. I dont know what to say. Frank figliuzzi, what do you think . He said hell have to pay 50,000 in legal fees because he was subpoenaed. If you dont have anything to worry about, show up at the grand jury. It is cheaper. Provide the communications and go home. Isnt it is it cheaper to comply. And not go to jail. And i would turn over emails and as a white house staff with anything on enron to waxman. Those are nostalgic. The good times. My point is nobody sat around and said, oh, it is too expensive. We just stayed late and did the work. This idea that it is too costly to comply with this subpoena. Again, tell the truth. It is easier to remember. And if you are clean and innocent, show up your emails and dont make a scene. I think this might be some kind of idea in his head that if he makes a big show of this, hes going to get a special deal and hes going to i dont know get some kind of im immunity and i think his lawyer left him for good reason or someone to tell him to show up on friday with his paperwork. And a question on innocence and guilt. Everything i know about these kinds of things, i mostly learn from homeland and law and order but is this how a innocent person on a witness list handles themself. Im going to be candid. This is someone with signs of mental straf mental stress. And number two, he needs to exercise the rights, but the short answer is no, something is not smelling right. There is a reason he doesnt want to turn over the emails and communications and wants to make a big stink about it and well find out eventually what that is. He looks like hes in a human microwave and he is. And when he came on the air on this network air last week after sitting with mueller and talked about it with ari melber, he was complimentary toward the process and said they seemed to know what they were doing and the questions had a purpose and he came forward and publicly pain the first to kind of give an account of what happened in the room. Suddenly a week later he is looking like hes having a break down. What happened in the intervening week. I have no idea. But when hes got the document demand, he looks at the documents and looked at what would it mean if he turns over the emails between him and roger stone and steve bannon. And you say there is bad stuff in here. But not stuff that might incriminate him but others and up to and including the president of the United States. And we know how broad the list is and so does he. And it is mails that he might have. And if he presses delete then injure jail term you longe longer. And three people committed to burglar trying to cut a deal four weeks ago. So could he have lied at some point and feel that the mails may reveal him to have lied in his testimony . But the way to go about this is not to publicly go crazy, not to go on news. They gave you a Business Card when you were in muellers office. You said before, he has probably gotten all of the communications from all of of the people and if you dont turn over something and he has a copy, you are in trouble. So Everyone Needs to find their mails and you talk about passing emails on from the white house. Anybody has been involved in the white house, usually there is a legal overhang in some capacity. I was the subject of an fbi investigation and i was completely innocent and i was sweating like a pig. I was telling them about when i mistreated a hamster when i was six years old. You admitted asking about parking tickets. I know. A very guilty conscious. We have to sneak in one more break. Well be right back. The first t. Trying something new can be exciting. Empowering. Downright exhilarating. See for yourself why chevrolet is the most awarded and Fastest Growing brand, the last four years overall. Switch into a new chevy now. Current qualified competitive owners and lessees can get this 2018 chevy equinox for around 199 a month. Chevrolet. Find new roads. For around 199 a month. Its 6 am. 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. And at our factory in boston, more than a thousand workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. Today were bringing you americas number one shave at lower prices every day. Putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. As one of those workers, im proud to bring you gillette quality for less, because nobody can beat the men and women of gillette. Gillette the best a man can get. Show of hands. Lets get started. Who wants customizable options chains . Ones that make it fast and easy to analyze and take action . How about some of the lowest options fees . Are you raising your hand . Good then its time for power e trade the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. Alright one quick game of rock, paper, scissors. 1, 2, 3, go. E trade. The original place to invest online. We came with big appetites. With expedia one click gives you access to discounts on thousands of hotels, cars and things to do. Like level furnished living suites for 45 off. Everything you need to go. Expedia the center of the how canneighborhood . R house first, mix liquid gold velveeta with the onetwo kick of ro tels diced tomatoes and spicy green chilies. Then, find space for extra parking. Lots and lots of parking. Imagine if the things you bought every day. Earned you miles to get to the places you really want to go. With the united mileageplus explorer card, youll get a free checked bag. Two united club passes. Priority boarding. And earn fifty thousand bonus miles after you spend three thousand dollars on purchases in the first three months from account opening plus, zerodollar intro annual fee for the first year, then ninetyfive dollars. Learn more at theexplorercard. Com before we go, breaking news. Nbc news has confirmed republican senator thad cochran will retire and he said his health is an ongoing challenge and he is 80yearolds so he will leave a significant vacancy and also the tenth longest serving senator in u. S. History. Thanks to mark, frank, john and a. B. That does it for our hour. Im Nicolle Wallace with mtp daily. And the woman of the hour. Katy tur. Congratulations on the spellbinding interview. I dont know if congratulations were in order. Let me defend the congratulations. You brought us someone we dont know about and showed us what maybe the Mueller Probe is doing to the witnesses and the other thing is the kind of people donald trump was attracted to at the beginning of his political career. I will say it is a stunning reversal from what sam was saying not even 24 hours ago. Were going to get into that. Nicole wallace, thank you very much. Appreciate it. And if it is monday, you wont believe your ears. Wait until you just hear until you hear what just happened in the