Frustrated president. People with knowledge of the investigation said it could last another year, pointing to ongoing cooperation from witnesses such as former Trump Campaign advisor George Popadopoulos and former National Security advisor mike flynn, in fact investigators said they expect to work through 2018 at least, according to the post reporting. Also today, a stunning account of Donald Trumps very thin skin from the Washington Post. Reporting that donald trump was so angry at his own Supreme Court nominee neil gorsuch for a perceived slight that he thought about pulling back the pick. Earlier this year, trump talked about rescinding gorsuchs nomination, venting angrily to advisors and legislators. All of this as republicans finally celebrate a legislative victory, the tax bill passing the house, on its way to the senate now, but can you win when more than half the country opposes it. Covering all those stories and more from the Washington Post, ashley parker, and National Reporter robert costa, also moderator of Washington Week and an msnbc analyst, and also at the table, nbc and msnbc analyst and White House Reporter and msnbc analyst. Ashley parker, before i ask you about your incredible reporting under your byline about neil gorsuch, i want to ask you about this meeting thats supposed to take place by the end of the week by Donald Trumps lawyers that have imprinted in him, this Wishful Thinking that the investigation into his campaign and its possible ties to russia will be done with the President Trump part. How can that possibly be the case and could the rubber meet the road or could they be confronted with a different reality when they meet with muellers investigators later this week . Sure. Well it certainly seems unlikely that theyre going to get a vindication or an exoneration they have been waiting for in this meeting. Its been billed as a status pro forma meeting, but the probe sort of broadly or ty cobb, the president s lawyer has convinced him that hes going to be cleared of all wrong doing. The president s legal team is basically going there to ask, what else do you need from us . What over information . But its very likely what the president wants to hear is that theres nothing else and this is all going to be over so but if that is not the case and we have every reason to believe this is not the case, youre likely to see a frustrated, angry president. It feels like what he wants from mueller is a letter exonerating him, what he wanted from comey and the heads of his intel agencies, rogers and coats at a time, and from former fbi director comey, at the time, letters exonerating him personally from any wrong doing on this question of wrong doing of collusion with russia. Hes said every time hes asked about it, bottom line, theres no collusion, this will be over soon. And its true, ty cobb has effectively imprinted that on Donald Trumps brain, but how long will that last . Even though ty cobb himself has never betrayed on the sly, a wink, wink, obviously im just doing that to keep donald trump calm. The analysis of this is this is a client that can make things worse for him by irrationally tweeting something and so its it just does not line up with anything that everybody else in washington following this knows about the investigation is that its far from over. And it really does make you wonder. We have seen, ever since the flynn violeindictment, we have the menagerie, the core sic sycophants, are trying to tarnish mueller, members of congress saying he should be fired. You just wonder at what point does donald trump stop believing ty cobb and listening to other voices out there, this is not over, maybe it is a witch hunt, maybe we need to do something more drastic. And this is an investigation that donald trump has smeared as a wish hunt, as eli said, hes got his allies us there, going very aggressively against its a coup. The fbi is like the kg brrb, et cetera, et cetera, yes . But these are the people he wants to exonerate him and then what. Theres clearly tension in the broad orbit of trumps legal team and that set of allies, right . Its the fourth string legal team. The ones that are advocating most loudly, complaining about capitol hill, whether the communications, mueller got the communications legally or illegally, those things are on the outer circle. But its clear this is an unstable situation, that inner circle, the ty cobb, how long does that last and is this meeting a turning point where one of two things happen, either they dont get what they want from mueller, which is the exoneration that trump looks for and they swing into all out war against bob mueller, everyones singing from the same song book of just trying to delegitimize the special counsel, bob mueller. And for the last year, whatever they hear from mueller is the exoneration he wants. Is it possible that they go in there and he says the case is still ongoing, he says something vague and ambiguous, and trump stands up and says no collusion, my lawyers went to the meeting and they say no collusion. I think theres a arent chanre chance it will end up in the second category. Because bob muellers office doesnt come out and leak things that way, they wont shoot him do you know if he portrays a false version of the meeting and then on the other side, we could have open warfare, consolidated warfare. Right now ty cobb is not at war with bob mueller, but ty cobb could be more at war with Robert Mueller two months from now. Robert mueller and his team would like to interview trump and mike pence as part of their examination into potential collusion between the trump orbit and russia, what do you think the answer would be . Its hard to speculate on that. The special counsel may be moving in different directions, as john said, its hard to say exactly what theyre up to. That would be a question that ty cobb and the president would have to decide, along with john dowd, would it be a private interview, a formal interview, would that be a major move by the special counsel to interview those two principles, we have not seen that come close to happen. We have been told by the post, mueller is moving from the outside in, so theyre not ruling it out, those that are familiar with the investigation, but at this point, its really about the confidants of paul manafort, as the special counsel is really looking to paint a picture of what happened during the campaign and what was the extent of russian interference. The president says and maintains publicly all the time that there was no collusion, why wouldnt he offer himself up to bob mueller to defend his innocence . He may, he may not. A lots going to decide after what happens at this meeting. It could lead to a political reaction at first, and it could lead to a legal reaction down the line. Theres a lot of tension inside the white house about when this ends, because they believe by passing the tax cut and moving on from alabama, theyre starting to move towards 2018, yet this cloud of this Russian Investigation continues to be a cloud over them. And the question becomes when do they start to reactavkct viscer. I think theyre all right reacting viscerally if you listen to donald trump on twitter. The goal is to sew public doubt about mueller and his polluters in advance of upcoming criminal trails and to give president political cover. It the worerying and the hand wringing among allies and people like Jared Kushner have been a pr firm, something that ed towards folks were others will tell you, abbey lowell likes to work in conference with this larger strategy of delegitimizing the prosecutors to prepare for, to lay the ground work for criminal trials . Right. I mean this is a matter of perception because perception to a lot of people and perhaps to trumps longevity is going to be a political reality. Theres a lot of people out there not talking about bob mueller explicitly the president. He has ripped the fbi, and hes been careful not to name mueller so far. But in softening the ground for people to start to believe. Maybe these Text Messages are maybe to and his allies are being even more brazen and explicit about it when you have Newt Gingrich, who criticized this very same behavior in 1998 when democrats were attacking ken starr, when you have a Newt Gingrich that bob muellers credentials are impektabccable a few months ago, it shows you how frightened everyones gotten, and thats why the goal of delegitimizing the special counsel. This is an existential crisis for the president. Criminal trials matter, attacking mueller is a legal strategy in some sense, because as you point out, there are criminal trials that we look out. But its about what happens in 2018. If you look down the road a year from now, the question of whether trump gets impeached or not relies on do republicans maintain control of the house or not. Depending on how this meeting goes, you could see next year, that the 2018 elections will be a referendum. Republicans are basically taking the position that the fbi is corrupt, that bob mueller is corrupt, this is a witch hunt, siding with the president , fighting it out to control the house and essentially saying we will never impeach this man. And on the other side, democrats effectively saying we might want to impeach him, but if you leave republicans in charge of congress, it will be off the table. We want to leave the options open for the law to play out. That could be the central defining issue of the 2018 midterms. Because that is a giant political argument. And if trump does react as costa suggests in a visceral way, he has not attacked mueller personally. Right. Two months, two weeks, two days from now, that could be different. Then you are looking at this kind of armageddon, where the president s survival is really the issue of next faulls congressional elections. Everything that john hallman said just makes me think about and sort of list all of the collateral damage. Actually you had a stunning piece, anyone that wonders just how thin skinned trump is, needs only to read your piece about what he thought about neil gorsuch, and by tweeting at you, about the piece, he proved as eli likes to talk about, trump tells, he proved that you were obviously on to something that he was embarrassed i dont think hes capable of embarrassment, but he said that the president worried that gorsuch would not be loyal. And one of the people said, and told aides that kneNeil Gorsuchs perceived slight against the president , we always depend on you to tie everything together, ashley, attacks on the judiciary, attacks on the rule of law and the judiciary, talk about your piece and the president s response. Sure, first on the response to our piece by the president , i should say we firmly stand by our reporting or whie wouldnt have published it. Keep in mind, tax reform is going through today, but until then, they really had no signature achievements, and whenever they were asked for one, they cited Neil Gorsuchs appointment to the court. When gorsuch was going through his confirmation process, one of the things he did in a private meeting with the senator was he basically assert eed his judici independence. And that the president s attacks on him were disheartening. He felt that gorsuch was being disloyal, he worried that gorsuch would be bad like the rest of them, a liberal like the rest of them, and that gorsuch was not being sufficiently grateful, he was giving him a lifetime appointment and he had not gotten any thanks. And neil gorsuch wrote him a kind of a fun thank you you letter. Aides found it and got it to the president. But he was venting to his aides that if gorsuch doesnt want it or doesnt appreciate it maybe he should pull his nomination. A story in the Washington Post that i was close to rescinding the nomination of Justice Gorsuch prior to confirmation is fake news. President president you should invest in signal and confide because we have so many unnamed sources we cant keep track of them. Let me turn to you, robert costa and ask you, just two questions, one, the Gorsuch Nomination is the big kahuna, its all hes got with the part of the Republican Base that was skeptical of him and remains a little wary of sort of the depths of his conservativism. Ill give you the two part because i want you to weigh in on the significance politically on the vote today of the tax bill and the best political asset that republicans have now is a bill with a 33 approval rating. When you think about the gorsuch situation, one of my sources joked to me today that every cabinet member is now making sure they write a handwritten christmas letter to President Trump. But the stalking of the judiciary and all these conservative judicial figures is really one of the. You really see a president at the beginning of the year. But he ends the year in a much more traditional. With a much more traditional role. This telling us thats as much as he has tried to change washington, its really the Main Republican Party that controls the power in washington that brings the president along in that direction, and in a sense, he ends the year uniting the gop on traditional terms, even if he remains this outsider and incendiary political figure. Ashley and robert costa, f thank you for your reporting. Is man that warned donald trump about appointing mike flynn as his National Security advisor. Dont go anywhere. This holiday, the real gift isnt whats inside the box. Its whats inside the person who opens it. Give ancestrydna, the only dna test that can trace your origins to over 150 ethnic regions. And open up a world of possibilities. Save 20 for the holidays at ancestrydna. Com. I am totally blind. And non24 can make me show up too early. Or too late. Or make me feel like im not really there. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442342424. There is a cleansing needed in our fbi and department of justice. It needs to be cleansed of individuals who should not just be fired but who need to be taken out in handcuffs. I think the fbis been compromised. Forget about shutting down mr. Mueller, dont we need to shut down the fbi because it was turned into a kgb type operation by the Obama Administration . Is the this is worse than watergate on a million levels, by the time we uncover all this corruption, it will be watergate on steroids. We now have proof that mueller was weaponized to sfroi trumps presidency and to disenfranchise millions of american voters, now if thats true, we have a coup on our hands in america. Ooh. A coup. We have chris christie, who will answer the question as to whether or not we are witnessing a coup. No. Were not . No. Answer this question for me. Im not sure if you watch a lot of fox news, i know you know a lot of the players, not just the president , but chris wray, represented you at bridge gate, you know all the political appointees. Riddle me this, if youre innocent of collusion, why would you mall line or green light attacks that would have the affect of alienating a special counsel that could exonerate you . I think the special counsel will ultimately be judged by the results of thinvestigation. If you go back to the clinton special counsel, you will hear the same things that democrats were saying now republicans were saying now. I dont remember any democ t republican calling t ining the s the kgb. I mean there is an ongoing Smear Campaign against the fbi. Lets talk about that. First off, chris wray, as you mentioned, i have not only a personal relationship but a professional relationship is going to be an outstanding director of the fbi, hes smart, hes tough, hes principled and he will do a good job as director of the fbi, and hes going to have to put his own stamp on this during his 10year term as fbi director. But bob mueller made some mistakes here. What mistakes did bob mueller make . You have to vet the people that are going to be part of your investigation. If its going to be such a high profile investigation, it doesnt mean that anyone is necessarily partisan or buy yia but you dont that appearance. Did you ever prosecute did you ever consider recusing yourself . Thats not the same thing. Why not . Because i didnt have commentary on an ongoing basis about the people i was investigating. Commentary goes on between human beings, im not saying i know what they really believed and what they believed affected their investigation. But we spend a lot of time talking about perception and how perception can be viewed and bob mueller, i have great confidence in, and im not changing my view on bob mueller. Bob mueller is a good man and i think will do the right thing by this investigation. But it doesnt mean hes perfect. And by allowing people into this investigation who by their own words have a bias towards Hillary Clinton or against President Trump. So you think stzrok and wiseman should we removed . I dont think they should be removed. If you go to the Hillary Clintons Victory Party you have spoken at political events and you were prosecuting democrats. I never spoke at political events. Wun so youre not willing to serve in the Trump Justice Department in the future . I havent been offered a Trump Justice Department position. Youre not disqualified from serving in the Justice Department because youve been an active political figure. Youre not talking about just serving the Justice Department. This is a discreet investigation into the president of the united states. Im not saying Andrew Weisman should not be able to serve in the Justice Department. But what im saying is if youre bob mueller, you want to avoid this discussion at all costs. Should he ask for the phones of every one of his team and see what theyre texting to their friends . Wait a second, youre assuming they were vetted. How go you know they were vetted . We know that bob mueller removed agent stzrok was on their phone. That was well before he was assigned this case. Thats stuff that you should be asking before hand. This is a very small organization, im not talking about a small organization. Mueller has a small group of people that hes bringing in, its getting larger, but you cant tell me that he couldnt sit down and start to ask these people, is there anything thats gone on in the politically charged year, year and a half that would put into question your objectivity. He called lindsay graham, he attacked bernie sanders, Jeff Sessions and eric holder. Would you disqualify an fbi agent from working on an investigation if they had attacked all those people . Thats a clean once over, but when you go over the substance of his i have read them all. When you look at the substance of his text against the president , it seems to me that if youre now going to investigati investigate that persons administration, and thats your only job. Hes assigned to this case, what im saying is, im sure hes been removed. Lets talk about Andrew Weismans whos still there. Im sure bob mueller when he found some of this stuff out wished he hadnt when youre involved in a high profile, and i was involved as u. S. Attorney with people in high profile positions, with republicans and democrats, you have to not only appear to be caesars wife, you have to be caesar ceas wife. It is theres a difference between saying that bob mueller is a qualified, smart investigator. Under what premise, you dont think hes investigating so you think that democrats can only investigate democrats and republicans republicans . No, im not saying that. Wouldnt republicans become the thought pleolice talking abt cleaning house because of the perception problems. You know better than this. Did you purge your office of people of bias . Did you check their Party Registration . No, i never checked anybodys Party Registration, but when we were investigating a political figure in new jersey and we did 135 political Corruption Cases without a defeat. So we had a very good record, so every time when i would assign a prosecutor to those cases, i would ask him, do you know this guy . Have you done or said anything that would be contrary to him . If anything came out that you said about him, would it look bad . Remember, something, as lawyers, we dont have to be concerned about actual conflict, we have to be concerned about appearance of conflict, and when you have as high a bar as this counsel is getting, if bob mueller and i were free to talk, he would say, i love Andrew Weisman, strzok may be a good investigator, but i dont need all this tum mumul. One of the placings where we know he was warned that that might be under way was an fbi briefing where everyone sort of briefed on their set of issues, one of the briefs was about just this. And you attended several of those briefings with then candidate trump, mike flynn was in many of them. Do you know if you were in this briefing, where we have concerned through several Law Enforcement officials that donald trump was warned that russian officials would try to infiltrate his campaign . I was at two briefings, i dont recall if that subject ever came up in either of the briefings. Were you ever around donald trump when he was everybody warned about russians . No. Who are you . Go you work for mueller now . Im a voter that thinks if donald trump thinks hes innocent, it puzzles me that his best friends in the media are trashing a good and honorable man. Im not trashing a good and honorable man. What im saying to you, is that in the end, if bob mueller were here and being honest, he would say i dont need this static. And as good as Andrew Weisman or peter strzok may be, i dont need this. I think hell be fair about coming to his conclusions and only prove the facts of the investigation. You dont have to be it doesnt have to be peter strzok. Hes gone. But it is an indication. Nicole, the problem is its an indication of a failure of the vetting system for the people that were being brought on, you cannot tell me that this would not be a more credible investigation if, not that its not credible now, but it would be more credible if you didnt have to deal with this stuff. But you cannot tell me that every prosecutor should have to check the Party Affiliation of every investigator assigned to their team. You dont have to know whether theyre republicans or democrats. There are people in the white house that think those things about the president. Party affiliation is not the issue. Not whether youre a republican or a dratemocrat, because i had republicans investigate republican democrats and i had democrats investigate republicans. The question is, is there anything you have done or said, visavis these subjects that we know about at the moment, that would make people think that youre not unbiassed, and if there is, you need to tell me that and i need to consider whether or not the investigation would be better served by putting someone else on it. This is what you should be doing. This is what responsible prosecutors should be doing. This is my question three questions ago. Youve now answered it three times so i think i struck a nerve. Why does judge jeanine come and spin him up about i have no idea. Why doesnt he call you when he wants to know about bob mueller, why does he let those nutjobs on tv malign bob mueller. Did you tell him that . Im not going to talk to you about what i talk to the president. When you see that he called the investigator whos investigating collusion a witch hunt, is that a good tweet or a bad tweet . When i talk to the president , i tell him exactly what i think, and i dont say much if at all anything different than i am saying to you. I did this for seven years. I have seen people come on this air and other air, who pretend to be experts and they have a partisan tint to it. My view is let the facts determine with whhats going ton here with everybody whos touched by this, i believe bob mueller can do that, i believe chris wrray can run the fbi. Donald trump obviously doesnt agree with you, he attacked mueller on the white house lawn, saying its really bad, its really sad, it sounds like a dr. Seuss book, and his attacks on the fbi are ongoing. What im saying to you is that people are now he doesnt listen to you or he doesnt believe you or what is he saying . I think people want to react the way they want to react at particular moments to particular bits of news that come out. I would always counsel people who i counsel to take a deep breath and not react to every bit of news that comes out, because one it may be true or not, and you cant take the news back even if the news youre reacting to is discredited. But everyone is going to conduct themselves in different ways. And none of this matters. What matters, i know because i worked as an investigator for the fbi and a prosecutor at the highest level. These people will not be affected one iota by what the president says or what judge jeanine says or anybody else. They will not be affected at all by it. The thing i love off eof lov about being u. S. Attorney is i knew what i knew. I asked people, did you know that flynn was going to plead guilty . People on the inside. They said no, i go, see . A good prosecution, the guy or woman in charge of it, the biggest power you have is that only you know what you know. Theyre screaming out question have to sneak in one break, the governor is staying with us wittingly or unwittingly. And whether the me too movement is affecting donald trump whos been accused by more than a dozen women. No matter how the markets change. At t. Rowe price. Our disciplined approach remains. Global markets may be uncertain. But you can feel confident in our investment experience around the world. Call us or your advisor. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. I used to have more hair. I used to have more color. And. I used to have cancer. I beat it. I did. Not alone. I used to have no idea what the American Cancer Society did. Research . Yeah. But also free rides to chemo and free lodging near hospitals. I used to maybe give a little. Then i got so much back. I used to have cancer. Call 18004944357 today. Your contributions to the American Cancer Society fund valuable research. But thats just the beginning. A cancer diagnosis can kick off years of challenge. And thats where your donation truly shines. You help us fund free rides to treatment. A live 24 7 help line, free lodging near treatment centers. And even efforts to expand access to insurance. So, please donate today at cancer. Org and help attack cancer from every angle. They also know you need to get your annual checkup. Iness. Now, with one touch using the mycigna app, you can find a doctor in your plans network to save money. Need to be thorough. Cigna. Together all the way. Were still here, somehow. John and eli are back with us too. You didnt kick me i am the person thats there at thanksgiving and still watching the football game. Three Senior Republicans all closely aligned with donald trump told me that while they had always found it credible that donald trump was too incompetent to have colluded with russia and that he was trying to run the federal government the way he ran his businesses, he could very well have stumbled into obstruction of just, where he could have said to mike flynn, keep that between you and me, mike, or this crack pot story aboard air force one, that turned out to be a lie about the pretenses of don donald trump jr. s meeting with mike flynn and would you counsel the white house against sitting down with bob mueller. Im not going to counsel him based on what i know now. And second i would always con sell a client at that level not to talk. Why, if hes innocent . The fbi agents and prosecutors, they go into your house, they say, can i go look in your house because i think you have a gun there. And you say i dont have a gun, and then they go and look for the gun and then say, is that a bag of pot on your Kitchen Table . I keep making the same mistake over and over again. Did they come for the pot or the gun . They came for the gun. I think the smart thing, especially for a principal, and the president is the largest of the principals of the government, if youre ever going to talk, you wait until everything is over and everyone else has talked because you dont want to get put into a position of this, wittingly or unwittingly. He may already be there with gly flynn, right . We dont know that. One thing im confident of is that we have no idea what mike flynn is cooperating on. I can guarantee you this, he took the plea on friday, i guarantee it wasnt wednesday, hes been cooperating for a while. So we dont know. And so i when i watch shows like this that im on now and others where you have all these people definitively saying, now we know don jr. Is going to be charged, now we know Jared Kushner is being charged. No one ever says that on here. Jeremy bash said that, because i heard it. Im sitting in my office in trenton its a little trumpy, you know nothing. I want to ask you two really basically fundamental questions that nicole was asking in the last block, and i think you know both of the humans im asking got pretty well. Forget about all the noise and the ancillary questions, bob mueller, someone who you worked with, someone who ran the fbi, someone of honor and integrity or in the bag of the trump forces . A person of honor and integrity in all my dealings with him, i believe hes an honest guy and i believe hes going to do an honest, fair and just job. We try to make some distinctions in our first block of the show, that trump has gone so far as to not to attack mueller personally, but a lot now in the conference, and certainly in the echo chamber are attacking mueller all the time. Youre saying that mueller is essentially above reproach both personally and professionally. Yes. Is that a smart play politically to be going after mueller this way or not . Ent i dont think so, i think its a reactive play, i think that anything that happens will be discredited. As nicole pointed out, this could turn out that mueller exonerates the president and you dont want to attack the man who may exonerate you. And so i dont think its a good idea, because of that, and second who youre attacking. Youre attacking a guy who has great credibility and who has done nothing to think he shouldnt have the benefit of the doubt on things. Its not that hes done it perfectly. Hes made some mistakes that im a little surprised given how good i know bob is but it doesnt affect the credibility of the investigation yell. A prosecutor is judged by hes doing his work efficiently. Let me ask the second question, because again, it goes to the same argument, the argument that the president is making now, that the fbi may now be in good hands, because the guy who is running it is trumps appointee, but comey, he says there was corruption throughout the department, jim comey is someone you know pretty well too. Corrupt . I think corrupt is a strong word. I would say that jim made some significant mistakes surrounding the clinton investigation and his conduct from the spring of 16 through november of 16 that affected both donald trump and Hillary Clinton in very negative ways that he did not have to be a factor in that election and he made himself a factor in that election. And no fbi agent should do that. A lot of people would disagree with you, that things were negative towards her. I think you can look at this and say he did both over a period of time, by common rating her and saying no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case for this. To exonerate her from a legal perspective and then he put her back in the tank in october by reopening the investigation and doing a letter, which was clearly in violation of Justice Department policy. Justice Department Policy told us all of us do nothing within 60 days of an election when someone is on the ballot in that election. And it was well within that 60 days, and the reason he did is that he stuck himself in july, and he had to do it again because he was afraid people were going to leak on him. You prosecuted Jared Kushners father, all of the rumblings in d. C. Are around his lawyer, abbey lowell hiring a p. R. Firm, that was one of the last things he did before edwards was indicted. A lot of people around Jared Kushner who dont want to see him indicted, worried about him, when you look at him as a prosecutor, do we know about Jared Kushner, did he set up a back channel with russia and commu communicating on devices, i think he had to do we look at him as a prosecutor, and say wow, hes so naive, or do we look at him as someone who may not have had the most ethical counsel in the household. Whether he deserves it or not, hes getting it. And the facts will determine that. What i used to tell my prosecutors and myself, you dont know where this investigation is going, dig, get the facts and then judge them. Look, the medias not willing to do that because theyre not prosecutors, they dont have to be willing to do it and fill content. Im telling you that he deserves the scrutiny, because he was involved in the transition and involved in meetings that call into question, his role. Okay, well, then if hes innocent of that, then that will come out as mueller examines all the facts, and if hes not, that will come out too. Deserve, everybody by the way, who was involved in that transition post the election is involved, from, you know, everybody, all the leadership is going to be questioned and i think has been questioned. Let me ask about two more men, Jeff Sessions, hes had to go before committee and lied about contacts with russians. Did he forget in your russians. Did he seem foregetful in your contacts with him. Not in my contacts. Why did he lie. There is an assumption you are making. He went to congress and said he forgot three times. He wasnt forgetful with me. But he is under oath but never on the back of the bus. It is a ridiculous answer. Its not a ridiculous answer. People act differently after different circumstances and can remember certain things and forget certain things. Im not going the say because he was never forgetful with me therefore he is a liar in another circumstance. Thats a big leap. When is there a better time to tell the truth than when you are under oath. You have to tell the truth but it doesnt mean if you forget something thats a lie. Three times. Nicole, listen n the end that will be judged too. And that will come out based upon all the circumstances and facts that everybody else is going to testify to. Mike partnerships really quick. Then we have to take a break and we both have to go on other pod cast. Mike pence, is he totally out of the lool loop all the time or does he forget, too. Totally out of the loop . He doesnt appear to mae to me. He appears to be involved in most things he want to be involved in. We have to sneak in a break. Dont go anywhere. Well be right back. Afi sure had a lot on my mind. My 30year marriage. My 3month old business. Plus. What if this happened again . 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Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots. Plus had less major bleeding. Both made eliquis right for me. Ask your doctor if switching to eliquis is right for you. We just might get a pod cast by the end of this hour. Eli stoke oels. I had one question for you. I have been listening to what you have been take about not carrying the trump administrations water bob mueller is credible man ask. Wait to see how the investigations go. Does i concern you as a citizen this country to watch so many republicans action growing number of them, disparage bob Mutual Center does it potentially concern you about long term consequences in terms of degrading the publics opinion of an independent apolitical judiciary. Ignorance of that kind bothers me no matter what. Thats what it is, its a borne out of an ignorance f. There is a text message, that means that bob mueller has no credibility. Its ignorant. I think its bad. Im criticizing it as ive done today because i dont agree with that. I come from that position because ive done this work and i know how people operate. And i worked with bob when he was fbi director and i was u. S. Attorney. And hes a credible guy. Again, not a perfect guy. And hes going the make mistakes and made some as i pointed out today. To say that now the guy . The tank for somebody or another, i dont buy that. Part of a coup. That deserves to be ignored. Almost out of time. I want to ask you if your friend stepped in it when he endorsed romney, donald trump, by endorsing a accused child molester. He very much reopened the conversation about the fact that he himself is accused of Sexual Misconduct by more then a dozen women. You are on the record saying unwanted advancements, but the question is did he make a massive political mistake by endorsing roy moore . Lets start with this, he lost. Im sure when looks back he wishes he didnt do it. Endorse roy moore . Im sure he wishes he didnt endorse roy moore. Do you think he has the rightline for himself in terms of me too movement and all of his accusers getting sort of a second moment to restate what they did. I can only tell you what he has told me, which is its not true. Now, you know, after that, everyone has to make their own evaluations of whatever evidence comes out and whatever else. He looked me in the eye and told me its not true. So i believe him. But you know, everyone is going to make their own judgments on this. And everyone is free to make their own judgments on it. I tell you that i Vice President seen anything. Now, i have been friends for this guy for 15 years, and i had never seen him do the things that he described on that access hollywood tape. I have never seen listen, in all my interaction with him up until the time we both were running for president was soerl. It was not professional. We had no professional interaction. It was social. So i never saw him do anything like that or say anything that would lead me to believe that he would do that. So thats why his denial to me is credible based on my own personal interaction with him. What do you just to go to those women what do you make of the fact not only did he deny the act sayings after the access hold tape, then threatened to sue them all but didnt sue any of them. What do we take from that . I think he became president. If he hadnt, i think he probably would have sued him. Knowing him thats what he would have done. I think after he became president they said lets to the get preoccupied with this stuff, you won, lets get to, would. What it shows is a certain level of cooling down of his natural instinct. If you look at donald trump over his career, suing people has never been a problem for him. Cooling down . He sends the White House Press secretary out to the podium to call these women liars. He asked me about sue, nicole. What do i make of him not suing. Dont look at me as if your response is responsive to what i said to him. A lot of women are this moment, sort of benefit of the doubt we are not talking about prosecuting him for any of these things but we are talking about benefit of the duty. It seems like everywhere except in the oval office benefit of the doubt goes to the men being accused of sexual harassment. What about the white house secretary. Her job is to communicate what the president beliefs. She is not up there to be an independent actor. You know this. You go up there and say the things that the president believes. You are a spokesperson for the president. Around you up there to tell the truth from the white house podium. Yes. She doesnt know they are liars. If hes telling her thats the truth it is her job to kplukt that. If she wandoesnt want to, she resign. Do you think it is a wise political strategy . What . To call these women liars and alienate a lot of women who are sympathetic. I think we need as a party to begin to reassess as we move into 2018 what it is we need to do in terms of our approach. We are all out of time. That does it for our hour, im micolle wallace, mtp daily starts right now. Hi chuck. Telemy friend the governor of new jersey hello for me. I heard you. Chuck, the happiest of holidays and a great new year to you my friend. Absolutely. To you, too. Go canes. They did fine until they choked at the en. There you go, just like the cowboys. If its tuesday, taxes, taxes, yeehaw