Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline White House 20171130

Which he eventually had to walk back. Also tillerson probably wont leave alone. Quote there was some concern in the white house about the appearance of a rush to the exits giving the other senior officials may also leave in the early part of the new year. Youll recall that tillerson, who never developed a rapport wuths the president , and disagreed with him on policy, was reported by this network to have called the president a moron over the summer and didnt exactly deny having done so. The potential shakeup on the president S National Security team comes at a precarious moment for the trump presidency. The president swinging from brazen displays of competence, generated by the likelihood of his first legislative win on taxes to lashing out at a more friend frenetic pace on twitter. Trump veered far past the guardrails of president ial behavior. The president is acting emboldened, as if he were impervious to the uproar he causes. Also a fullfledged international crisis, one he created by retweeting three antimuslim videos. They are feeling pressure to withdraw an invitation to the president of the United States for a visit to the uk for an official state visit. This is the president of the United States sharing with millions inflammatory and divisive content. By sharing it, he is either a racist, incompetent or unthinking or all three. We cannot simply roll out a red carpet and give a platform for the president of the United States to also sow discord in our communities. The fact that we Work Together does not mean that were afraid to say when we think the United States have got it wrong and to be very clear with them. And im very clear that retweeting from britain first was the wrong thing to do. Nbc news has confirmed that the state department has sent a rare message to the white house flagging negative reaction to trumps antimuslim tweets overseas, pointing out they could imperil u. S. Officials living and working abroad. And Sarah Huckabee sanders today defending the indefensible. I think the president feels that bringing up important issues of our time, like extreme violence and terrorism, are important to do. That was what he was doing in that process. And i think hes going to continue to do that in a number of venues, whether its through speeches, through twitter or other social media platforms. Sharing those videos might incite violence against muslims and does he understand hes elevated a french Political Group that many people outside of britain didnt even know about. Hes elevated the conversation to talk about a real issue and a real threat. Thats extreme violence. And extreme terrorism. Something that we know to be very real and something the president feels strongly about talking about and bringing up and making sure is an issue every single day. That were looking at the best ways to protect americans. Oh, sarah, your boss doesnt elevate anything. Our reporters are here. From the New York Times, peter baker. With the Washington Post National Political reporter robert costa. Also the moderator of Washington Week on pbs. At the table, nbc newsth in msnbc National Affairs analyst john heilemann, Washington Post political reporter philip bump and politico Senior Foreign Affairs robert crowley. Your colleagues have a piece out this morning that seems to describe just perfect metaphor. This president veering well beyond the guard rails but do you think theres anyone, and i ask you this question all the time. I apologize for my repetition, but is there anyone in the white house, do you think theres anyone down in the sit room, over in the oeob, maybe up on the fourth floor, do you think theres anyone worried that donald trump may have put anyones life in danger by retweeting three racist antimuslim tweets to his 43 million followers . Inside of the administration there are two mostly establishment voices who have real heavyweight say when it comes to private conversation with the president. Thats defense secretary james mattis and h. R. Mcmaster, the general, National Security adviser. General kelly to an extent as white house chief of staff but many say general kelly ideologically and personalitywise often clashes with President Trump and doesnt necessarily encourage his behavior but likes some of his hardline stances. And they really are looking to mattis and to mcmaster on National Security matters especially to help guard the president and help guide him in a more centrist direction. We have theresa may and the president in a twitter war. We just saw theresa may speak for herself but ill read what the president of the United States tweeted at her. Theresa may, dont focus on me. Focus on the destructive radical islamic terrorism thats taking place within the united kingdom. Were doing just fine. As a matter of fact, were not. We just had a terrorist attack here on october 31st, and this is the second time that i believe theresa may has had to rebuke the president for using terrorism as a political issue in her country. The president consumes a lot of information, including conservative organizations that play to his conservative base. And he really digests that information, his confidantes say. Sometimes it moves in a political motion to try to rally his voters. That core voter who sticks with him. He saw he was cheered then and later won the presidency so when it comes to these videos, four leaders, many within the administration, the Republican Party, see them as extreme, but he believes politically, his confidantes say, they have a value. So that certainly underscores the idea there nor guard rails. That which is false, incendiary, that which may put american lives overseas in danger does not stop this president from doing something so reckless. But he may be removing someone who he has never connected with. Someone who sort of never seemed to grasp the magic of trumpism and thats his secretary of state Rex Tillerson. Talk about your reporting. Thats exactly right. We dont know what will happen necessarily but theres this transition plan that john kelly has developed that would involve the secretary moving on by around the end of the year, perhaps early into next year to be replaced by mike pompeo, the cia director who then in turn would be replaced by senator tom cotton of arkansas. This is all being developed because its believed that Rex Tillerson is a dead man walking in the sense he cant possibly continue for much longer his relationship with the president feels broke en broken. Hes under fire from the left, from the right that thinks hes too soft on things like the iran nuclear deal. He doesnt have a lot of friends left. Even john kelly who defended him when secretary tillerson came under fire from the president and people around the president now has grown weary of the personnel fights between the white house and the state department. It feels to most like its a matter of when, not whether. I had heard this and im sure you did, too, back in the summer around the blowup at the end of the summer when it came out he called the president a moron. That is wasnt what you just said. It wasnt a matter of whether tillerson leaves but when he leaves. There has been a good deal of upheaval with the moving of john kelly into the west wing. Too many open cabinet posts. I want to ask you about the two men clearly ascending in the trump orbit. Thats mike pompeo who took a stance at odds with that of the entire Intelligence Community by, one, i believe in aspen sort of suggesting what aspen did in 2016 is what they always do. He did that in an interview with Brett Stevens and earlier this fall, by saying something the cia ultimately walked back about how russia hadnt interfered in our elections in 2016. Can you talk about the political positions hes taken that have earned him the affections of the president that may make his move into the state department tricky . He didnt know the election had been changed as a result of the election interference. That was something that was aimed at the president s insecurity on this. One thing that gets President Trump upset more than anything is the idea that russia meddling in the election somehow changed the election. That he was not legitimately elected president. That is something that pompeo understands. He has been very good at impressing the president in these daily intelligence briefings. He keeps these briefings animated. The president has liked it and has grown impressed by him. They go beyond what the spy agency normally is involved with. Things Like Health Care and so forth. What congress is about. Hes a threeterm congressman from the Tea Party Wing of the Republican Party. He would be a big change at state department. A little less establish mement n Rex Tillerson has been. He also would be closer to the president. The secretaries of state who were most successful were those who had good relationships with their president because they could speak for them on the world stage. Phil bump, i want to ask you about your papers reporting. Put something up from the piece by your colleagues. Ashley parker and phil rutger. Trump has internalized the belief that he can largely operate with impunity. His Political Base cheers him on. Republican leaders largely stand by him as staff scramble to explain away his misbehavior. The white house disciplinarian has said its not his job to control the president. I heard that its not just that john kelly doesnt think its his job to discipline the president. He emboldened this behavior. We saw that earlier this year when there was the controversy over the soldiered killed in niger and kelly came out and actually gave a more robust defense of donald trump than actually seemed necessary in the moment to try and the big debate over the gold star family. That was the first time we saw john kelly really step into that role in public. But to the point of that reporting, its pretty clear that donald trump sees that election. He worries the election will be seen at illegitimate. But he sees as the authority for him to do whatever he wants. He came into the campaign and campaigned has someone outside the establishment who was ignoring all the experts. They dont know what theyre talking about. Its written he was write. Wrong in a sense as well. But it reinforced the fact he knew what he was doing, had the sense of what the american electorate wanted to see and so its not a surprise from that standpoint that this is the attitude he now takes, despite all of the hail storms surrounding him at any moment. This is the husband of murdered british mp joe cox. It matters not just because i dont like the content. I dont like what he was saying but it matters because it drives hate. When you drive hate. My family is living consequence of what happens when feem people are fed hate. But this president has become a proverbial for hate. Were not being wet rags when we say that the president s actions have consequences. Were not being skullses when we suggest that by forwarding fake videos that insight violence against muslims might get people killed. Theres a real life example of it. Can you speak to the fact he isnt just an embarrassment at home to 67 of the country but now sort of a scourge on the world stage. Yes. I dont think thats new. Hes behaved in ways that have made him disdained throughout the world. Your former boss had a lot of disdain aimed at him when he was prosecuting the iraq war around the world. Much more intense with donald trump because hes seen in a lot of places as being ignorant and ill suited to the job. And as that sound just illustrated, the thing that i think part of what i want to just get to is more at home because i think yesterday was a lot of discussion with what happened with these videos. The more you think about it, the more grotesque the entire thing is because the reality is that the president of the United States is fundamentally responsible for nothing more so than the safety of every american citizen. Thats what his job is is to keep people safe. At core. And by putting these tweets up, he essentially made every Muslim American more vulnerable around the country. Maybe today there hasnt been a hate crime against a muslim. Maybe there woepts be tomorrow or a direct correlation. But the president seems not to care about that. Doesnt seem to factor into his calculations that by this is not a question where were debating, extreme vetting, is that right or wrong . What the policy . How tough about radical islamic terrorism . Should we call it radical islamic terrorism . Those are all those der baits you can have. This is a thing that are three videos designed to make people essentially fear and in some senses hate a particular race or people of a particular ethnic and religious background. Muslims. Obviously, all kinds of things that this demonstrates to everybody in britain when you align yourself with a neofascist party and with a woman of the original tweeter of those videos who has committed violence against muslims and advocates and many many in britain from the normal route all the way to the far left think the president is appalling and grotesque and monstrous but he is actually a fundamental way abdicating the most essential obligation of a president of the United States when he does that. As i said to protect every american citizen who lives in this country. Let me bring him in on this and ask you if you think theres any chance the president understands that the first people who will get killed will be people that he claims to care a lot about. And thats members of the u. S. Military. People who protect our interests around the world are some combination of Diplomatic Security and American Military. Do you think he has any capacity i remember during the bush presidency, the iraq war was a policy process rebuked the world over, along with extraordinary renditions and enhanced interrogation. There were policies that were not just loathed but really created revolts and real breaks in the relationships between this country and others. However, never once did the president tweet or send off a letter that was based i mean, they were just real policy differences. It was u. S. Foreign policy that they protested. Do you think, one, the president understands hes put the lives of the people who protect our embassies and our consulates and american soldiers around the world in danger, and, two, do you think he cares . You would like to think they cant both be true so youd like to think that i think number one is probably true. He knows he put those kind of true that there is the real possibility of danger as a result. Im sure hes been informed. We saw a warning come out of the state department which was quite pointed and probably would have involved Rex Tillerson signing off on it. Did he know or think about it beforehand . I dont know. What strikes me is we keep harkening back to the donald trump of the campaign and the politician. Robert costa quite appropriately said he understands this stuff works for his base and his people love it, but its a totally emotional approach and a totally political approach to the presidency that doesnt take into account the fact that he is a leader on the world stage whose words and actions have reverberations around the world and literally could have life or death consequences. I dont know whether he fully understands that. Theres a lot of anec doetsal evidence that hes been slow to absorb some of the coaching and counseling hes getting from hiS National Security team about how the world works. How the American Military and diplomatic machinery works around the world. I think actually the day on which Rex Tillerson called him a moron came after one of these briefings where they sat him down in a room and said we need to tell you what the American Military and state department is doing around the world, and people were stunned how little he understood. So i dont know the factual answer to your question but it is totally out of line with anything weve seen from an american president before to be acting in this emotional, political way on issues that have such a resonance in other countries and acting as though youre speaking to a Political Base at home with no regard or understanding for the repercussions overseas. Do you think the two men you mentioned at the beginning of this show, secretary of defense mattis and National Security adviser h. R. Mcmaster could be inclined to make a point to him that the kinds of people you put in danger are the ones you claim to care a lot about, members of the military and those who protect our embassies and consulates around the world who tend to be often former military . Like many people around President Trump, they are unlikely to be blunt. They tend to guide him a certain direction. Its interesting secretary of state tillerson is being floated as someone who may be replaced, not mattis or mcmaster. They are seen as really key for this administration to keep moving forward on a with a certain steadiness on these seriouS National Security issues. Peter baker, robert costa. Peter had to jump. Robert costa, thanks. The question Jeff Sessions wouldnt answer in his closeddoor testimony today may be the one that guarantees hell be back. Also ahead, democrats call for a resignation in their own ranks over Sexual Harassment. But what took them so long, and did it cost them some of the high ground against a president who is accused of Sexual Misconduct by more than a dozen women . Depend silhouette briefs feature a comfortable, sleek fit. As a dancer, ive learned you cant have any doubts. Because looking good on stage is one thing. But real confidence comes from feeling good out there. Get a free sample at depend. Com. You know, what concerns me about the American Press is this endless, endless attempt to label the guy some kind of cuke, not fit to be president. That was Lindsey Graham this morning. Here he was in 2016, same cuke, same crazy, different take. I think hes a cuke. I think hes crazy. I think hes unfit for office. That was Lindsey Graham on donald trump. My, what a difference an election makes. Joining us now, former dnc chairwoman and democratic strategist Donna Brazile. Also the author of the book hacks about the 2016 election and hacking of the dnc. Weve been talking for the first bit of the show about this president operating and rolling over norms with impunity from retweeting three antimuslim tweets that brought about a sharp rebuke from our closest ally in the uk to simply having absolutely no regard for the lack of truth in anything he says whether it was his meandering tax speech yesterday or the things his spokeswoman says from the White House Briefing room. Where do you sort of orient yourself in this climate . Theres no question that President Trump has shown poor judgment. Not just in retweeting those socalled videos that really, i think, will have a serious impact on our relations with many of our allies in the muslim world. Think about if youre the king of jordan today, if youre in saudi arabia. All of the allies we have. And here you have the president of the United States retweeting this garbage. Of course, hes not going to apologize. Of course hes going to attack those who raise questions about his judgment. But the truth is the president its been over a year, and he has yet to pivot. Theres no pivot. He doesnt know how to pivot. Hes still appealing to his base. He has no regard whatsoever or respect for people who simply disagree with him. He blew up negotiations, an opportunity to speak with Chuck Schumer and nancy pelosi about keeping the government running and then staged a little small press thing with empty chairs. I think the president needs to figure out, especially as we end this year and start a new year, how to pivot. How to work well with others and not retweet garbage from far right sites. Donna brazile hasnt lost her optimism on her book tour. Ive lost mine. There will be no pivot. Can you talk about the president s mania. What we see from him, what we see in this Washington Post piece and your piece is great, too. You have a piece with the headline, trumps antimuslim and antimedia tweets demonstrate deep insecurity. And it goes you go into how he might have woken up feeling that day. He certainly has on display the high, highs and hes on the brink of a big legislative win with tax cuts. But also sort of the terror that may be behind all the lashing out against the executives at this company and other members of the media. I think if you we get in trouble when we replace psychologists and psychologists im asking about the output. Its hard to get inside someones head. At the same time if you witness the behavior that you see on Donald Trumps part, and by that i mean just in these last few days. You just go to the story, the notion hes claiming the access Hollywood Tape isnt real. The conspiracy theories that he believes or says he believes, that he propounds widely. That he seems to be untethered from some basic facts about the world around him. And about himself. And about himself. There are you think about all of those things, if you saw the behavior of this person at a Backyard Barbecue in your hometown or anywhere you live, youd seek out their Adult Children and say, i feel sorry for you. How are you . What is the treatment plan for your father. Thats what you would say. You would say theres mania on display. Disassociatative behavior. These fantasies, this conspiracy theory. If you ran into this person on a park bench feeding pigeons stale bread youd think there must be some kind of social program to deal with that. I dont know whats going on in his head but if you saw them in a normal person thats not president of the United States, youd be concerned and asking the people around him, what are you doing to treat that problem . So i spoke to someone who feels that way about the president. That he is concerned about the outputs. About the things in full view that we see. And one of the theories he offered up was the kids were supposed to be there to keep an eye on him, whether that again, we dont know if that was because of his mental state or tradition of having his kids in i dont know why. But this person used the words, the kids were supposed to have that role of keeping an eye on him. As jared has been completely engulfed by the russia investigati investigation, thats not been his focus. And ivanka saw potential damage to her brand that she and the president saw it more important to the family for her to preserve her brand and not play that role. Let me ask you, im pretty sure feeding pigeons will be his next job but let me ask you about the behavior in the current job because i want to know if theres anybody who you talk to in washington who has said it as bluntly as bob corker. Who has said it as bluntly as clapper has said it. That there are constant actions of behavior that should force us into a conversation about the fundamental fitness or lack of it of the president of the United States. I think a lot of people say that and i think the 99. 9 of them are democrats. You do hear the exception of bob corker. You said besides bob corker. The point being that the Republican Party has an obvious and vested interest in making sure that donald trump can stay as president of the United States for as long as possible. And maybe that as long as possible is reevaluated after the primaries next year. Maybe its reevaluated before the general election. At this point in time, going back to the last segment, were talking about the fact that donald trump felt as though he could act with impunity because his party was standing behind him. Theres no indication the republicans are interested in doing anything besides passing a tax bill, seeing that signed into law and at that point, who knows what happens. But theres no indication at this point this is something thats at the forefront of what they want to address. Look what happened in alabama. Mitch mcconnell wanted to see Luther Strange beat a republican nominee. He ends up with roy moore. If roy moore wins, theyll have to figure out what they do with him. But even thats not a sure thing. This is a guy who is accused of having been sexually inappropriate with a 14yearold. So much at play here that by itself is keeping people from wanting to speak out. How do the National Security agencies which are structurally sound enough to absorb a Foreign Policy or that they may not agree with because theyre career Public Servants but how does it absorb a president who i think they do their best to keep their head down and communicate with their counterparts. Try to stay out of the president s way. Jum mattis said he was wary of talking to the press because mattis said if i say six and the president said a half dozen, youre going to say theres daylight between us. Let me push back because mattis has said in videos weve seen of him addressing troops that things are really bad back at home and he he says that to beat up on the press but hes a sharp and astute observer of the times in which hes operating as anyone. Oh, absolutely. Its clear that mattis is in a very different place than the president. And there are moments like that that suggest that to be the case. But in general, these agencies are trying to just stay out of it and communicate to foreign counterparts that what the president says and tweets is not the policy of the United States. The policy of the stop right there. Im just going to say one more time. What the president says and what the president does is not the policy of the United States of america. You heard it here at 4 32 from michael crowley. Everyone is sticking around. This is way too good. Jared kushner spends time with muellers investigators. Why this may mean more bad news for former National Security adviser mike flynn. For your heart. Your joints. Or your digestion. So why wouldnt you take something for the most important part of you. Your brain. With an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain Health Supplement in drug stores nationwide. Prevagen. The name to remember. When food is good and clean and real, its ok to crave. And with panera catering, theres more to go around. Panera. Food as it should be. Attention homeowners age sixtytwo and older. One reverse mortgage has a great way for you to live a better retirement. Its called a reverse mortgage. Call rfree information kityour with no obligation. It answers questions like. How a reverse mortgage works, how much you qualify for, the ways to receive your money and more. 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And perhaps most notably, attorney general Jeff Sessions on the hill this morning to talk to house intel behind closed doors about the russia investigation. Our colleague Garrett Haake asked Ranking Member adam schiff about what happened. It seemed sessions did what he often does. He refused to answer questions about his talks with the president , but his silence on one topic in particular is drawing some attention. Just to be clear, he offered the same justification today that he has in previous public hearings as to why high wasnt going to answer the question . Essentially, yes. But in the context of a question over whether he was instructed to enter thandle the russia investigation, that, under any conceivable idea, is not privileged. Did you ask that question . I asked the attorney general specifically, did the president of the United States ever take any action that you believed instruct you to take any action that you believed would hinder the russia investigation . And he declined to answer that question. Lets bring in our friend matt miller, justice and security analyst. And a former chief spokesman for the justice department. Donna is still with us as well. Matt miller, i first saw this on your twitter feed. It seems to go to the heart of any line of questioning about whether the president of the United States has committed obstruction of justice. Thats right. And i think the attorney general essentially answered the question today. When you dodge a question like that and dont answer, thats a way of confirming that, in fact, the president this goes back to the key period from january 20th until may 9th when he fired jim comey that really are at the heart of the obstruction of justice piece of this investigation. Thats when trump was pressuring comey to back off on mike flynn. Calling around the Intelligence Community trying to find anyone that would irpt ven intervene ae fbi and get them ta back off. Its hard to imagine he called all these other people and didnt call his targ aexert his influence. Thats a confirmation. And he may be able to get away with that on the hill but hes going to have to talk to bob muellers team. If he declines to answer that question in an interview, hes going to get a grand jury subpoena and be forced to answer it on the record under oath. John . You got Something Else on your mind like old men throwing food at pigeons. I like the questions. I want to ask you if you think Jeff Sessions sort of personally and constitutionally has had enough of putting himself on the line and getting in trouble for lying to his former colleagues in congress and if he simply department answer that question because hes as exposed as he wants to be legally in front of his former colleagues in the house and senate. I think Jeff Sessions there are a lot of problems with Jeff Sessions as attorney general. One thing thats relatively clear on the basis of his behavior is that he wants to keep that job. He doesnt want to go to jail. He doesnt want to perjure himself. I think matt is right about the fact that in that period if you think about this Mueller Investigation having the two tracks. The collusion track and the obstruction track. In that period, given how close trump was to sessions throughout the campaign and throughout his political life and given the where sessions sat, i mean physically in some cases with respect to the meeting trump had with comey, it seems hard to believe that sessions does not have information that was not called upon to do things that were problematic. How he reacted to them, what he did, not clear. But i think hes trying to be very careful right now about not saying anything that will get him into a deeper mess of trouble. I was reminded it was sessions who spent the most amount of time talking about Foreign Policy with mike flynn on the campaign because that was a portfolio that he largely absorbed, and it was the two of them who worked on some of these big Foreign Policy sessions was the head of the National Security the group that did National Security policy on the campaign. And the two of them just if you think about people beyond a couple of the traveling staff who traveled with trump constantly. If you think of senior figures. Who spent the most time with trump on the campaign trail . Those two guys spent more time with him than anyone else and their portfolios overlap. Even though sessions ended up in the justice department, he was very deeply involved in the Foreign Policy deliberations in the campaign and flynn brought was the main, in some ways the main Foreign Policy adviser. Sessions was organizing things and flynn was bringing the content to that discussion. So those two and pointing the president. Pointing the president varies ways. Those two are bound up together in that period of the 2016 calendar year 2016. Matt miller, we know that that period of time, as well as mike flynns period of time, the 24 days he spent in the white house as the president S National Security adviser, are specifically under scrutiny by bob mueller. Thats what Jared Kushner, we believe, was answering questions about earlier this month when he met with muellers investigators . Whats the significance of that . Thats what it seems. One thing about all those stories that broke about Jared Kushners interview with bob mueller. Its clear if you read between the lines those came from his legal team. So i think they are a partial and favorable account at best of what happened in that interview. But it does seem that it was not his full reckoning with bob mueller. Hes going to have to spend more time later to talk about his own liability. This was a brief interview, an hour or so and the timing of it is whats important. It happened a couple weeks ago. It covered mike flynns behavior. Mike flynns activities and it was in that time where we know mueller was building a case, getting ready as nbc has reported, had prepared an indictment. Ready to bring an indictment against mike flynn. You look at the timing of that happening, it seems like he was dotting his is, crossing his ts getting ready to go to court. That was headed off by whats happened in the last week right before thanksgiving which is flynns team going to mueller and starting negotiations, probably for cooperation. Donna, let me bring you in and ask you specifically to address the conduct under scrutiny after donald trump became president. Sometimes you know more than anybody about campaign shenanigans. Sometimes theres a sobering effect when someone assumes the office of the presidency. But it is clear the congressional committees and bob mueller are combing through and scrutinizing mike flynns conduct aS National Security adviser, Jeff Sessions statements in his confirmation hearings and after and the conduct of Jared Kushner even after he was inside this white house. What do you make of the conduct of the president s team after the election . Theres no question that they are dragging their feet. Look, its been more than a year since the election. And still this administration has not really taken any proven steps to prevent another cyberattack from happening in the next election cycle. Theres something deeply troubling about the Trump Administration and its approach to what happened in 2016. First, they call it a nothing burger, and now we see from all of these conversations that are taking place on capitol hill with the intel committee, as well as what mr. Mueller has already done that theres a little bit more fire there than smoke. So i would hope we can get to the bottom of it, and before the next election. But we need to really know the truth about what happened in 2016. The hack in itself. And whether anyone in the trump campaign, and i want to go back to the collusion track that john mentioned and, of course, matt alluded to also, is that we need to know a little bit more about what jaird cured kushner and ot were up to when they interacted with the russians, interacted with wikileaks and we need to know how that played out in the election. Once again, the Trump Administration have been dragging their feet. And its time to put their feet to the fire. I think bob mueller is trying to do just that. Matt miller, thank you so much for spending some time with us. Your twitter feed just isnt enough of you. When we come back, im here to say im not a liar. Thats what a woman who accused john conyers says this morning on the today show. Well show you her powerful interview and take you inside the democratic partys own struggle to deal with Sexual Misconduct in their ranks. [ keyboard clacking ] [ click ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ clacking continues ] good questions lead to good answers. Our advisors can help you find both. Talk to one today and see why were bullish on the future. Yours. Talk to one today and see why were bullish on the future. For her compassion and care. He spent decades fighting to give families a second chance. But to help others, they first had to protect themselves. I have afib. Even for a nurse, its complicated. And it puts me at higher risk of stroke. That would be devastating. I had to learn all i could to help protect myself. Once i got the facts, my doctor and i chose xarelto®. Xarelto®. To help keep me protected. Oncedaily xarelto®, a latestgeneration blood thinner. Significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. 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Tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures. And before starting xarelto®about any conditions, such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. Its important to learn all you can. To help protect yourself from a stroke. Talk to your doctor about xarelto®. Theres more to know™. I felt it was worth the risk to stand up for all the women in the workforce that are voiceless. That ordinary women like myself with extraordinary challenges working in the workforce that are dominated by men. All i want from the congressman is for him to acknowledge what he did and apologize for me to me for calling me a liar. That was marion brown, a former staffer to john conyers breaking her silence after the congressman denied allegations of Sexual Harassment against her. Congressman conyers has been hospitalized for a stressrelated illness but that hasnt stopped for House Democratic leaders for calling for his resignation. The allegations against congressman conyers, as we have learned more since sunday, are serious, disappointing and very credible. It is very sad. The brave women who came forward are owed justice. I pray for congressman conyers and his family and wish them well. However, congressman conyers should resign. I talked with him in person. I told him, i thought it was in his best interest to step away from this body. That hed given us over 50 years of great service. But this was not going to get any better. In fact, i can see it getting worse. And joining our conversation now is miko, a former Congressional Staff enow Vice President with third way. Let me start with you. Democrats have arrived at the place where they are calling on conyers to resign but its not where they started. And on sunday, nancy pelosi was widely viewed by democrats to have stumbled and tried to defend congressman conyers on meet the press with chuck todd. Can you talk about whether you think there were mistakes made between sunday and today when the democratic leadership came around to calling for the resignation of conyers . Look, i think these are fastmoving allegations, and its hard for people to come to grips with these things when they have known people for so long. I long. I personally thought congressman conyers allegations were credible from the start but i think leadership has come to a point its clear this behavior is unacceptable and glad theyre there. Can you talked having worked on the hill why it is so structurally difficult to bring these cases against members of congress . Yes. Its really hard. Every member of congress dont have a boss. Elected by constituents. Theres no one to tell them, hey, youre out of line. Got to stop. Even if a chief of staff says you cant engage in this kind of behavior, its the members decision to listen to their leadership. Its hard to get a member out of control to stop the behavior. Donna brazile, let me play something congresswoman Jackie Speier of california said and ask you to respond on the other side. Things are changing, and i believe that theyre all changing for the good. I cant telling the number of women that have come up to me on the halls of the capitol over the last fee weeks, big smiles on theyre faces saying, thank you, thank you. Men as well. Its been a deeplyheld secrets in the halls of congress for a very long time, that has never really been addressed properly. Donna, youre a optimist and listening to the congresswoman can feel optimistic. The truth in politics, as mika laid out, there are structural hurdles. We have a president accused of Sexual Misconduct from more than dozen woman. Roy moore, every smart little analyst in the country, both parties, think hes likely to win. We dont have a common system for holding politicians at large accountable. You know, nicolle, im a former congressional intern and spent a lot of my political career up on capitol hill and respect that institution, but when it comes to this institution policing themselves as you know, they have been slow to come into the 21st century. Hi think leader pelosi is absolutely right. We have to expedite all of these cases and also have a better standard so that women as well as men can come forward. And lawmakers, i understand how they feel, that they dont, they are not accountable, but they are accountable to the people, we the people. We pay their salaries. So its really important that we not just allow these individuals to speak but its time for congress to clean up its own house. Open up that lid of the dome and let the American People breathe fresh air of relief that members of congress will be held to the same accountable others are held, but i have to say one other thing about Sexual Harassment. This whole notion that is just, its politicians, celebrities or media stars, thats not just the case. Its pervasive across all industries, in every aspect, and we need to have zero tolerance. I was in alabama the other day talking to be people about Sexual Harassment. Look, its up to you to send a strong message to washington, d. C. And you can do that december 12th. Its up for speaker ryan and leader mcconnell to also open up all of those allegations so that we can see everything and not just a small part of it. I want to ask you, if the democrats stumbleed a little bit . They had a clear hit at donald trump, accused by more than a dozen women of Sexual Misconduct, standing behind, having his own Metoo Movement with a guy name the roy moore, standing behind someone who preyed on girls as young as 14 years old. Did democrats stumble from terns of not getting their house in order more quickly to have a queer shot making this case against the president jnchtsz y . Yes, prosecuting the case, one of the ways going an donald trump. Saying you have a higher responsibility to the nation to be a leader morally as well as a leader politically. So this was obviously a challenge for them. First franken a challenge, fren c then conyers a challenge. Its important to remember, the Congress Works on a twoyear time set. One of the responses yesterday, representative clybourne, congress is accountable to people on his district and get to vote next primary. Two years seems like a brief ten and now its an eternity. Six allegations against senator franken came out in the course of the past week. Tha thats a lot. That put the democrats at disadvanta disadvantage, and congressman speier said touched this company, media, the conversation were talking about in congress, do you think any of them are leaving men without a script, without a playbook . Men are being left out of the conversation . Well, look, as far as men not having their say in response to this . I think theres a conversation touching on all of us and i think no. I dont think men can say they dont have a voice. I think there are men who feel that theyre being persecuted. I dont mean i mean, we cant solve this problem by ourselves as women. Right. I mean it takes all of the women and as donna said, not just highpowered women who are in television and have access to reporters at the New York Times and write big stories about people and harass them. Women who are waitresses, women that dont have h. R. Departments or access to the media. Do you feel like there is enough of a, sort of enough latitude for men and women to throw all of the ideas in the ring, or do you feel were still i feel like were in a phase where every woman gets and deserves a benefit of the doubt and we sort of have to go through weve started talking about this. That that whole process has to play out before men and women and everyone can sort of get around the table and figure out the path forward. Where do you think we are in this . I think youre right. Its an evolving conversation, although it shouldnt be new and were dealing with timeless issues, theres a change the way we talk about this and people are still trying to get their arms around it, understand it. There may be men who feel theyre not a big enough part of the conversation. That will happen. Were at the end of beginning, nopt the beginning of the end of this conversation. And Donna Brazile and mika, thank you. One and all. Sneak in a break and be right back. While she was shopping for organic fruits and veggies, burglars broke into her shoe. They stole her kids Mountain Bikes and tablets along with her new juice press. Luckily the Geico Insurance agency had helped her with Homeowners Insurance. She got full replacement on the stolen goods and started a Mountain Bike juice delivery service. Call geico and see how affordable Homeowners Insurance can be. Call geico i kept looking for ways to manage my symptoms. I thought i was doing okay. Then it hit me. Managing was all i was doing. When i told my doctor, i learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of moderate to severe Crohns Disease even after trying other medications. In clinical studies, the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Just managing your symptoms . Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, remission is possible. Oh, no, you blinked. He blinked. Dylan, is a patient at st. Jude childrens research hospital. Thanks to you, st. Jude is leading how the world treats and defeats childhood cancer. And we freely share our research to help save kids worldwide. Saw you blink no, you blinked. Nope, you blinked. I didnt blink. Give thanks for the healthy kids in your life. Donate now at stjude. Org or shop where you see the st. Jude logo. I could do this for a hundred years. Were out of time and im on probation with whichuck todd an thank all of my guests. Does it for our hour. Im nicolle wallace. Mtp daily starts now. And ill send you a bill for overtime and steal it from ari after me not good at math, okay. Fair enough. If its thursday nothing. Trumps taxes. Tonight, how the tax plan could change your life and where you live. Well sort out the substance from the sales job. Its our opportunity to overhaul our complex tax code and shift our economy into high gear. Plus, nancy pelosi changes course. Now calling on congressman conyers to step down amid Sexual Misconduct cim