Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline 20240703

This theres no way. They have the wrong. Her mother was nearly killed by a bomb. I remember coming out to the truck, put in the key and then kaboom. The police told me this bomb was meant for you. They say to you who does not like you enough to try to kill you . I could think of no one. But police could. And if the target was a surprise, so was the suspect. Whoa. Its you. But he claimed he was framed and A Man Named Indian Joe could prove it. Even he admitted his story sounded crazy. If i was a guy out there watching dateline, i wouldnt believe this. This is like watching a tv show. Youre telling us to go search for the onearmed man. Yes. Well, we found indian joe. Thats all true . Oh, yeah, thats all true. What else would we find . Theres a maniac out there. Hello and welcome to dateline. Family and faith were everything to Connie Hoagland. A devoted mother of 3 and wife of a Church Leader. So when a car bomb shattered life as she knew it, investigators were baffled. The motive remained a mystery until a stunning twist led detectives in a direction that was hard to believe, even for connie herself. Here is Josh Mankiewicz with deadly intent. Youre looking at the life of the Hoagland Family of san diego played out in brief. Moments stretching across the years from the prosaic to the profound. Thats the mom, connie. Just after she gave birth to son jonathan. Look over here, guys, one, two, three. Good one. Here he is, six years later, after losing a tooth. Hey, jonathan, thats a great smile you have there. This is oldest daughter, jill, learning to play golf. Thats a nice one, jill. And this is her little sister jaclyn. Today the kids are grown. When we met them jill has a child of her own. Jaclyn had gotten married and jonathan has graduated high school. Looking back, the childhood they described was one of stability and routine. Just normal happy family, id say it would be. Mmhmm. We go to church on sundays. Wed have movie nights or Family Vacation that we had taken, usually disneyland, which is our favorite. Everything was just as a family. Everything was perfect. They loved each other and they had a great marriage. Exactly. The patriarch of the Hoagland Family, larry, was a leader in their church and a professional photographer who can be heard off camera gently directing his children through these precious kodak moments. Dad that was good. Keep going. I always remember getting sick of it because i just wanted to have fun and we always had to pause and take a picture, which kind of got annoying after a while, but looking back, its nice to see the pictures, i guess. The mom, connie, loved being with her kids so much, that as they grew older, she found a Job Taking Care of toddlers at this day care home. But on september the 23rd, 2010, as connie was leaving her job for the day, her life and family were quite literally blown apart. A thunderous explosion rocks an east county neighborhood. The first thing i said to myself when i heard the explosion was oh, my goodness, what was that . Teddy williams is the owner of the day care home. So i ran out the gate. I come to this point and i stopped because connies car is rolling at full speed and smacked into my van. I ran around her truck, and this is where i found connie, right here, on her side, in the street. Connie hoagland was her best friend. Connie was laying on her side, curled up in a ball. I rolled her over. There was glass, there was shrapnel, there was shards of metal everywhere. Everywhere. Teddy knew all the Hoagland Familys Cell Phone Numbers and she was the one who broke the news. I was driving, and she said that there was an explosion and my moms truck blew up. So i immediately pulled over, stopped, and called my dad, asked him whats going on. What do we do . What did he say . He said, i just heard, too. I dont really know all the details. The Hoagland Family gathered at Uc San Diego Medical Center where connie had been taken for emergency surgery. We got to quickly see her rushed from the hallway into surgery. It was probably ten seconds. And i just remember telling her, i love you, and her being awake but kind of being out of it. And then that was it. Seeing her like that and all the wires coming out of her and the bags hanging and the blood and all that, it was very, very shocking, taken back, i almost felt sick. What did you think had happened . I thought her truck malfunctioned. We didnt know was it an accident, was it the gas tank, whats going on . I didnt know what exactly had happened. By now though, investigators knew this explosion was no accident, because they found Bomb Fragments embedded inside connies truck, making it clear this was an intentional act, a car bomb, which got investigators wondering if it was the work of terrorists. Almost immediately when we came on scene, we made a plan of how we wanted to sweep the area. And what we were doing was looking for secondary devices, so we didnt walk into an area and actually get hit by another device of some sort. Robert luke of the San Diego County sheriffs bomb squad and atf agent matt beals were the lead investigators. They quickly learned that something about the day care may have made it a target. On that particular day care center, we were aware that there were other Law Enforcement officials who had their children in that particular home during the day. Was it possible someone was out to kill cops and their kids . If so, connie, who always parked in front of the day care home, could have been the perfect yet unwitting Delivery System for the bomb. They were looking for any known or suspected domestic terrorists or possible watchlist type people that may be in the area. No question that this was an ied, an Improvised Explosive Device . No. And suddenly, they had more questions after they ran connies address and discovered that, in her neighborhood, two weeks earlier, police had found another bomb. Two bombs with one explosive connection. Investigators discovered this attack was personal. Coming up had connie or her family been targeted before . We were like, wow, this is for real. When dateline continues. My moderateeczema,ere it hasnt been easy. Now, im staying ahead of it. Dupixent helps heal your skin from within. So, you can clearer skin and noticeably less itch serious allergic reactions can occur, that can be severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, including blurred vision, joint aches and pains, or a parasitic infection. Dont change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. Ask your doctor about dupixent [coughing] when caroline has a cough she takes robitussin. So, she can have those one on ones again. Hey jim hey can we talk about your yoga breaks . Sure. Get fast, powerful cough relief with robitussin, and find your voice. Robitussin mom i got the job yeah, i feel like its all coming together. Introducing the allnew 2024 chevy trax. With all the tech. Here we go. Were going home monty. And all the room. For all of lifes firsts. Your first new car is here. The allnew chevy trax starting under 22,000. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. But im protected with arexvy. Arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. But im protected. Arexvy is proven to be over 82 effective in preventing lower Respiratory Disease from rsv and over 94 effective in those with these health conditions. Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. I chose arexvy. Rsv . Make it arexvy. When Connie Hoaglands truck exploded outside a san diego daycare center. Exploded outside a san diego day care center, investigators suspected terrorism. A suspicion that only grew stronger when they realized that this bomb might well be related to another unexploded bomb found two weeks earlier lying in the street just blocks from the hoaglands house. This is a device we had not seen in the united states. Detective chris evert and Bomb Squad Commander john wood had taken that earlier call. Between them, theyve investigated and disarmed hundreds of explosive devices. But this one was a first. These particular devices had only been seen in war countries, afghanistan and iraq. The small but powerful device was hidden in a fedex envelope, but what really got everyones attention was the detonator linked to a cell phone. And that to you says what . This is somebody that can build a bomb and it can sit there from anywhere in the world and set it off. We have breaking news. A bomb squad investigates a suspicious object in rolando. Taking no chances they sent in a robot to disarm the bomb. Fire in the hole a firefighter was then put in one of those famous suits to make a final safety check and found the Cell Phone Detonator had 18 missed calls. Only a broken wire had prevented the bomb from going off. Were like, wow, this is for real. Police ran the Phone Numbers, of course, but they belonged to untraceable throwaway phones, available almost anywhere. The bomber or bombers had left no trace of themselves. No fingerprints, no dna. The only real clues were found on the fedex envelope, duct tape and soot, suggesting the bomb might have fallen off of the underside of a car. And so, two weeks later, when connies truck blew up at the day care home, investigators immediately wondered were these two sophisticated bombs really the work of terrorists . Or was all this personal . We went through all those gamuts and we had a lot of people just going out chasing every lead there was trying to get this stuff done. And while he was still at the crime scene, Detective Luke had what seemed to be an odd visit from an old colleague, eric stellmacher. The former commander of the San Diego Fire Department bomb squad. Thats luke to the left of your screen and stellmacher on the far right. He was the first one to contact me as soon as i got on the scene. I says, what are you doing here . He tells me he had retired to colorado, came back to visit some friends here in town and he heard about the bomb and he came over to try to assist us. And there was one more thing. He turns out to be an acquaintance of the Hoagland Family, so he knew the victim and the husband. First thing that popped into my mind is we have a bombing here, we have a bomb guy on the scene thats retired and now hes also has some nexus to do with the family. That was definitely a curveball. John wood was Bomb Squad Commander then and he also had the same unsettling concerns. One of our own sitting there going, wow, why did he show up . Now he just became a suspect. This guy used to have your job before you. Exactly. Hes the one that appointed me before i left. Everybody here knows him, trusts him, likes him. Yep. And hes a friend of the family and hed know how to make that device. Exactly. Stellmacher had a tip offering up a potential suspect, Connie Hoaglands exsoninlaw Who Stellmacher claimed may have had it in for the family. That was absolutely a lead we needed to follow up on immediately. Because hes the only person you could think of that didnt like connie and larry. Exactly. Or so we were told and led to believe. So beals hit the road bound for vegas and a meeting with connies soninlaw. He didnt have a negative thing to say about connie in any way, shape or form. Just as important, the soninlaw had a solid alibi. Corroborated his story as to where he was and he had received the backup that he was at a store at one time and clearly not in san diego, not in california and his alibi all checked out. All of which put the guy who fingered him, stellmacher, under more suspicion. Meanwhile, investigators put connies truck up on a lift for a closer inspection. And in the soot dust on the floor pan, they saw an outline the size of a fedex envelope framed in traces of duct tape. The imprint of the earlier unexploded bomb. Hardening their suspicion that whoever built the bombs was targeting connie or her family. This appeared, for all intents and purposes, to be directed at one person. Whoever the driver of that truck was. In this case, connie. Back at the hospital, the Hoagland Family, holding a vigil by connies bedside, was unaware there was a criminal investigation under way until luke and beals paid them a visit. Then they asked if she had any enemies, if anyone would want to hurt her, if we could think of anybody. And i couldnt think of anybody. There wasnt anybody. Im guessing that the only thing stranger than hearing that your moms been the victim of an explosion is hearing that it was not an accident and that it was directed at her specifically. I said, what . I couldnt i didnt believe it. I didnt understand it. And i just started crying, because i didnt know who could do that, who would want to do that. What made a strange case all the more baffling occurred four days after the bombing, when a large fedex box was delivered to this san diego Area High School addressed to one of their students. His name . Jonathan hoagland. That got san diegos bomb squad scrambling. And it got the towns attention. Coming up Connie Hoagland, wife, mother and survivor. I remember coming out to the truck, put in the key and then, kaboom. And the police told me, this bomb was meant to kill you. But who was trying to kill her . When dateline continues. So, we switched to Verizon Business internet. They have business grade internet, nationwide. vo make the switch. Its your business. Its your verizon. sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Switch to verizon, you can trade in any iphone, and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. As the world keeps changing, so does covid19. Thats why this seasons covid19 shots have been updated. Theyre one of the best ways to help protect yourself against covid19. Learn more and schedule at vaccines. Gov vo the new iphone 15 pro with titanium is here. Get it on us, with verizons best Business Unlimited plans. Get the new iphone 15 pro, on us. Its your business, its your verizon. Nice footwork. Man, youre lucky, watching live sports never used to be this easy. Now you can stream all your games like its nothing. Yes [ cheers ] yeah woho running up and down that field looks tough. Its a pitch. Get way more into what youre into September 2010 may well be when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. May well be remembered remembered as hoagland month, for san diegos busy bomb squad. This picture perfect family suddenly seemed to be the target of a Relentless Campaign of terror. First there was the Cell Phone Device placed inside a fedex pack found just down the street from the hoagland home. Then there was the pipe bomb that detonated inside Connie Hoaglands pickup. And now there was a mysterious fedex box addressed to Jonathan Hoagland but delivered to his high school. I guess it had something to do with the car bomb that happened last week. It may be from the same person, so were not sure. Immediately the school was shut down because now we still wasnt sure who was going to be involved. The box was removed and destroyed. Inside investigators were hoping to find some evidence that could lead them to the bomber. Instead they found party favors that jonathan had forgotten hed ordered for a high school dance. Something that he was in charge of getting and he didnt remember it. But it shows the State Of Mind at the time. It was pretty rough, school was closed down, bomb squad coming out, everything. While this particular event turned out to be a bust in terms of finding any workable evidence, luke and beals believed the bomber had to be somebody who knew the hoaglands. Knew where they worked, where they lived, knew their routines and had access to their cars. The only problem was that connie, a Devout Christian and mother of three, had no known enemies. But luke and beals had one witness who might be able to shed some light on that part of their investigation. A witness they had yet to question. Connie hoagland. Always i had a sense that she was going to live. I dont know why, but i always knew that she was going to live. I just didnt know how. Sedated and in icu, after having gone through seven different surgeries to save her right foot and left leg, and yet somehow, still alive. I remember coming out to the truck, put in the key and then kaboom, just a huge explosion. It scared me. First i thought maybe the air bag went off. Smoke, flames . Smoke started filling up and i looked out the door and i noticed the truck started to move. And my feet and legs hurt really bad. I could tell, oh, that hurts. But i thought i have to get out of the truck. So i pushed the door open, started to get out. I did not want to see my injuries. It felt so bad, it felt like my feet were blown off. What did you think had happened . I dont know. I really just laying there, i thought it was a random act. And so she says she was stunned when investigators first spoke with her in the hospital. And the police told me, this bomb was meant for you. And that was weird. I couldnt even digest that. Like youre kidding me. And they say to you, who does not like you enough to try to kill you . They did ask that. I could think of no one. I really dont have any enemies. They said its somebody who knows the code on your truck. Its somebody who knows where you work. Who knows your routine . Yes. But its still nothing. Thats not too many people. No, but thats like what . Your husband, your kids and a couple Close Friends . Thats true. But who would do that . Not them. And Standard Police procedure is to say after that, so hows your marriage . Hows everything in your marriage . I said everythings fine. But in her heart, she knew that wasnt quite true. After 25 years of marriage, larry seemed to have grown tired of her. The last few years werent that good, but i thought we were still committed and just hanging on to the commitment at that time. Did he act like he didnt care about you any more . Yes. That has to be heartbreaking. Yeah, it was. You ever think about leaving larry . It never crossed my mind. In the church, divorce is really frowned upon. If you can work it out, work it out. How was larry at the hospital . Pretty standoffish, which was normal for us at that time. The truth is there are a lot of bored husbands out there in suburbia, but few ever go on to try to assassinate their wives. And connie certainly didnt believe that was the case here. Neither did detectives. When you first meet larry, was he a suspect . No, he was not. He was the victims husband. We didnt really focus on larry that much. And so, eric stellmacher, the former Bomb Squad Commander, remained on everyones radar screen. He was constantly by larrys side at the hospital, and still wanting to pitch in on the investigation. I called an Investigator Friend of mine and said, hey, you know, can i come in and talk with you. Detectives thought the time had come to bring in stellmacher for questioning, but before they could speak with him, they received another phone tip. One which would send this investigation in a whole new direction. Coming up a new direction, a new suspect, and finally, an arrest. Youve got this whole package right there, so its all right in a nutshell. Thats what says, hook him. When dateline continues. Ntinues. The virus that causes shingles is sleeping. In 99 of people over 50. And it could strike at any time. Think youre not at risk . Wake up. Because shingles could wake up in you. If youre over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. Teeth sensitivity is so common. It immediately feels like somebodys poking directly on the nerve. I recommend sensodyne. Sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. And my patents say you know doc, it really works. Its the most wonderful time of the year nondrowsy claritin knocks out symptoms from over 200 allergens. Without knocking you out. Feel the clarity and make today the most wonderful time of the year. Live claritin clear. When i was diagnosed with hiv, i didnt know who i would be. But here i am. Being me. Keep being you. And ask your Healthcare Provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment, biktarvy. 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No matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. Talk to your Healthcare Provider today. Welcome back to dateline. Im craig melvin. Somebody wanted Connie Hoagland dead. Detectives were convinced the wouldbe killer was a person close to the married mother of three. And they even had someone in mind, but connie told them she was at a loss. Now investigators were about to get a tip that would turn the case and connies world upside down. Here again is Josh Mankiewicz with deadly intent. Detectives trying to figure out who would want to kill Mild Mannered Connie Hoagland were hitting nothing but dead ends until they got a call from the Business Partner of connies husband, larry. I says, hey, i found bombmaking instructional videos and Internet Searches on our office computer. And i didnt make the things on the internet. We looked at the stuff that he had looked at, and then it was like, wow, this is the exact same bomb that we found. But they found more than just a list of incriminating websites. During the search we find love letters between him, Larry Hoagland, and a woman by the name of lee ann. The highly moral, godfearing Church Leader had been cheating on his wife with a woman who lived across the country. Lee ann. What did she tell you . That she and larry had been in a relationship for several years. Larry and lee ann, it turned out, were once high school sweethearts. In 2007 lee ann, recently divorced and living in pennsylvania, wondered if it was too late for larry and her to take another crack at love. She was able to track him down on the internet and placed a call to him one day while he was at work at his photography shop and, boom, just like a spark rekindled into a fire. According to lee ann, larry told her he, too, was getting a divorce. And soon the two were texting like hormonal teens. Youve been my dream girl for as long as i can remember , larry wrote. Life is like dry brown toast without you. Lee ann was equally smitten. I lost you once and do not want to lose you again, she wrote. She was preparing for him to come be her husband and be a part of her life for the rest of her life. While he carried on with lee ann in pennsylvania, back home in san diego, larry was growing distant from connie but never mentioned getting a divorce or separating. In fact, he still kept up his family routines, even going to church with them every sunday. My dad was a church board member. My mom was really involved with Bible Studies and womens groups. It was a big part of our life. We didnt know anything was wrong. I always thought that everything was fine and great. So, larry was leading a double life and lying to both of the women . Exactly. Yeah. He had two complete lives and lived them as one. It was really weird. Connie remembers that time well but for different reasons. Larry told her and the kids that hed gotten a big Photo Contract in pittsburgh and for the next three years, larry split his time between california and pennsylvania. He said he had a friend out in pennsylvania named bob and he would go out there and do work for him. We had no reason not to trust him and believe him. But heres what connie and the kids didnt know. Larry was financing his secret life with extra mortgages on their san diego home. I thought we were doing fine. I thought it was going to be a good time in our life. But then suddenly there was no money. Suddenly its like what . Bankruptcy . You had to declare bankruptcy . I didnt want to declare bankruptcy but larry said, no, we need to do this. So i just went ahead with it. You went along . Yep. Yeah. I trus yep. Yeai thought he maybe knew better than i knew. And detectives learned, while larry was deceiving connie and bleeding his own family dry, he was also playing lee ann, telling her the timing wasnt right for them to get married, because he couldnt afford to go through with his divorce. As proof, larry even sent lee ann this secretly recorded meeting with his lawyer. Spousal support at 900. And Child Support at . 1,000. 1900 total. Why is that so high . Why is it so high . Thats the guideline figure. Lee anns response to this video . Text after text basically telling larry to put up or shut up. I have heard it all so many times, she wrote. I am tired of it all. If you love me like you say, we still wouldnt be doing this. I am ready to move on. Two weeks after that text larry was in pennsylvania trying to patch things up with lee ann when the Cell Phone Bomb was discovered in the hoagland neighborhood. Im telling matt, matt, we got him with a girlfriend in pittsburgh. Weve got all this stuff going on. Because this is all that were finding, love cards in the business. So all this is building in one day. So youve got this whole package right there, right in a nutshell. Thats what says hook him. Larry was arrested that night, but at that point the Hoagland Family had no idea he was even being investigated. So when jaclyn got a 2 00 a. M. Call from her sister jill with news about their dad, she was blindsided. My sister said hes been arrested. Hes in jail and i couldnt believe it. And i think the first thing out of my mouth was theres no way he did this. Theres no way. They have the wrong guy. The evidence against larry was circumstantial. No fingerprints, no dna, nothing to physically connect him to either bomb. And that made investigators take another look at eric stellmacher, who was asked to come down to his Old Fire Station for an interview. This was not going to be a friendly chat with his old work buddies. When they asked me if id be willing to take a polygraph. I was like, wait a minute. You guys know me, you should know better than that. And i realized the best way to make sure that im clear in their eyes is to take a polygraph. Right after it was finished, they said, well, you passed. Stellmacher was nothing more than the right guy in the wrong place. Everything came up clean. He was just coincidence. Luke and beals were now convinced larry was the bomber and that he was in it alone, but Larry Hoagland, the husband, father of three and man of god, had a ready explanation when he sat down with me. Hed been framed. I did not try to kill my wife. There is somebody out there who is responsible for this. Theres a maniac out there. Larry hoagland tells his side of the story and even he admits it sounds crazy. Is it . Coming up if i was a guy out there watching dateline, i wouldnt believe this. I would be the first person to say, oh, this guy is full of baloney. When dateline continues. Would be the first person to say, oh, this guy is full of baloney. Craig melvin voiceover when dateline continues. Josh mankiewicz voiceover after his arrest, kayaking is my thing. Running is awesome. But her moderate to severe eczema would make her skin so uncomfortable. Now im staying ahead of it. Dupixent helps heal your skin from within. So, they can have clearer skin and less itch. Serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Dont change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. Ask your doctor about dupixent. Type 2 diabetes . Discover the ozempic® trizone. I got the power of 3. I lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. In studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. Im under 7. 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[coughing] when caroline has a cough she takes robitussin. So, she can have those one on ones again. Hey jim hey can we talk about your yoga breaks . Sure. Get fast, powerful cough relief with robitussin, and find your voice. Robitussin holy cannoli. Look at this. Its like a science project. Ordering lunch easy for you and me but can be so difficult for a young homeowner turning into their parents. Are those all different lettuces . Uh, yes, sir. Brown rice, white rice, or quinoa . [ groans ] were gonna need a minute. Do you have any Food Allergies . Well, my teeth are sensitive to cold. Progressive cant protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. Thatll be 19. 45. Oh, im just paying for my own salad. You founded your Kayak Company because you love the ocean not spreadsheets. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. Indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. Visit indeed. Com hire from pep in their step to shine in their coats, when people switch their dogs food to the farmers dog, the effects can seem like magic. But theres no magic involved. dog bark its just smarter, healthier pet food. Its amazing what real food can do. After his arrest, larry Larry Hoagland was booked into san its just smarter, healthier pet food. Diego countys Curiously Namedgeorge hoagland was booked into San Diego Countys curiously named George Bailey detention facility. Merry christmas. Merry christmas, george a different George Bailey, you may recall, was Jimmy Stewarts character in its a wonderful life. Which actually described Larry Hoaglands life at one point. Good friends, a loving family, the respect of his community. By the time i sat down across from larry, much of that had evaporated. He stood accused of trying to kill his wife with a pipe bomb. And his first words to me were that police had the wrong man. I did not try to kill my wife. Im adamant about this. The only thing larry said was true was that he did have an affair. I was cheating on my wife. I was cheating on my family. You were in love with Somebody Else . Yeah, i was. Yes, i was. Perfectly framed, yes. And you were what, going to ask your wife for a divorce . Yes. And walk out . That was pretty much it, yes. I let a lot of people down, i deceived a lot of people. I forsook a lot of people, i did. Is that the worst sin you committed . Yes. Besides adultery, yeah. Because what youre in here for oh, yes. Pretty much tops all of that. I did not try to kill my wife. I did not. I have nothing to do with what happened to connie. There is somebody out there who is responsible for the whole thing and theres a maniac out there. The whole thing, meaning trying to kill your wife and framing you for it . Yes. Larry, who has motive to do that . You wanted out of your marriage. You had a girlfriend. You were planning to leave your wife and your family. And you didnt want to pay the alimony and you tried to kill her. Alimony was nothing. You know, and i tell you all these things because its the truth. Im not going to stand behind and start explaining to you details after details. I just have to tell you that its the truth. And thats all there is to it. Briefly tell me and i always say briefly because i dont know how much time we have. Who framed you and why would they do that . Larry wasnt able to explain it briefly, so ill do it for him. His story goes like this. Larry claimed there were a number of transients who park their motor homes in the Industrial Park around his photo studio. And that he, larry, living out his christian faith, let those Transients Piggyback Off His Wifi at night, and that one of those transients, a Guy Named Jerry, did the bombmaking Internet Searches. Not larry. You believe that jerry, with his wifi internet access, is responsible for the computer searches that were found in the investigation . I believe so. And in truth, when cops arrested larry, they knew there was no physical proof connecting him to those Internet Searches and so they continued to dig. Larry had a lot of stuff in his wallet, a lot of pocket trash, business cards, pieces of paper, receipts. I wouldnt want to sit on his wallet, lets put it that way. While going through that wallet, beals found this phone number written on a little slip of paper. I said, holy cow, this first number is the bomb phone number. I keep going through the contents of the wallet and heres the second number. Thats right. Larry hoagland had, in his wallet, the numbers of both cell phones used as detonators on the first bomb, the one that didnt explode. Thats an unbelievable piece of luck. Id like to call it investigative genius, but, yeah, it was fantastic. Really good to find that. And that tied larry to the unexploded bomb. Exactly. If youre thinking, it would be hard to explain away that evidence, then you dont know Larry Hoagland. How did those numbers get into your wallet . Jerry gave them to me. That man gave them to me. Thats why i say he had everything to do with this. He gave you those Phone Numbers and said this is how you reach me . Yes. And then what . Gave you another one because he had a second phone . Yes. He said heres my wifes phone number. I said, okay, fine, so i grabbed the piece of paper and wrote it down. All of it to frame you for murder to what possible end . For what conceivable reason . How does that benefit him . Its obvious weve got a maniacal person on our hands here. Tell me what you know about jerry. I know very little about jerry. I know what he looks like. What does he look like . About six feet tall, dark hair, longer than yours but wavy like yours, no salt and pepper. I would guess that hes late 20s, early 30s. Always needed a shave. Larry said there was one transient who could back up his story. And his name is . Thats joe, indian joe. And hes been out there and hes been there for some time. If we find joe, hell be able to lead us to jerry . I certainly hope so, because joe, to my knowledge, knows everybody in that neighborhood. It sounded like a crazy story and larry well knew it. If i were a guy out there watching dateline, i wouldnt believe this. I would be the first person to say, oh, this guy is full of baloney. Its like watching a tv show. It is like watching a tv show. And youre telling us to go search for the onearmed man. Yes. Thats a good analogy, yes. And so, we went to try to check out larrys story. Was he telling the truth this time . Or was it a lie just like the ones he told his family . We combed the area around his old photo studio, an Industrial Area near the freeway full of warehouses and alleys in search of an indian joe who might lead us to jerry. We found this old rv and inside . Joe, indian joe. Coming up Larry Hoaglands wild story seems to be checking out. He left them on all night for us. We could do our emails, surf the net, whatever. It was kind of nice. Nice guy . Really a nice guy. When dateline continues. Josh mankiewicz nice guy . Indian joe really a nice guy. Craig melvin voiceover when dateline continues. My a1c was up here; now, its down with rybelsus®. His a1c . Its down with rybelsus®. My doctor told me rybelsus® lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill and that people taking rybelsus® lost more weight. I got to my a1c goal and lost some weight too. Rybelsus® isnt for people with type 1 diabetes. Dont take rybelsus® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple Endocrine Neoplasia Syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. Stop rybelsus® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. Serious side effects may include pancreatitis. Gallbladder problems may occur. Tell your provider about Vision Problems or changes. 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Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Power e trades awardwinning trading app makes trading easier. With its customizable options chain, easytouse tools and Paper Trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. E trade from morgan stanley. Power e trades easytouse tools make complex trading less complicated. Custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an Earnings Tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. E trade from morgan stanley. Larry hoagland. In jail for Josh Mankiewicz Larry Hoagland. In jail for allegedly trying to kill his wife allegedly trying to kill his life with a pipe bomb, had an alibi that sounded like a movie plot. That he had been framed by a mystery man using larrys wifi. Larry told us, A Man Named Indian Joe could confirm his story. Hey. Hows it going . Youre joe . Yes. And much to our surprise, indian joe turned out to be real. And he left it on all night for us. We could do our emails, surf the net, whatever. It was kind of nice. Nice guy . Nice guy. Really, a nice guy. Kind of, a kind of, larry milk toast. Kind of, really, quiet. So far, this part of larrys strange story checked out. But what about the crucial part that larry promised would exonerate him and prove he had been framed . Larry tells us about a Guy Named Jerry who was like you. Somebody who came up, parked nearby, used the wifi signal. A guy who was about6feet tall. Dark hair like mine but maybe darker than mine. Wavy hair. Slender build. Ringing a bell . Somebody fitting that description . No. I have known everybody that comes around. And there was nobody there was nobody fitting that description. Do you know anybody named jerry . No. No, there was nobody there was nobody with that name, during that time period that he was here. Because thats fairly important to larry, who is now behind bars. I know. After i heard the situation come down, i actually, asked the other people. Did you get on the internet . Did you look up how to build a pipe bomb . Did you try any of these things . And everybody said, no, why the heck why would i do that, you know . And and it was like, this is just im afraid, its just fantasy. That was not the news larry was expecting to hear. Or was it . We found joe. Wonderful. We talked to joe. Great hes never heard of jerry. Anybody that resembles my description of jerry . Anybody, at all . So now, youre not sure of the guys name . Ive never been completely sure of his name. I called him jerry. Anybody that resembles jerry. I wasnt positive his name was jerry. Joe says he doesnt know anyone like that. Cant help us. And he wasnt unhelpful. He was, actually, quite willing to talk with us. He says he doesnt know anything about it. Yes, thats very disheartening. Is there really a jerry . Yes, there is. Yes, there is, there is a man out there who is responsible for this. And im not him. I got to ask you, i mean, did you think about just getting divorced . Yes. I mean, if you had just gotten divorced, none of this wouldve happened. You wouldnt be in there. I wouldnt be here, talking to you. You would be in pennsylvania with your girlfriend and your wife would be angry at you. Which which would not be been would not have been the right thing to do, to leave my family, in hindsight, yes. But it beats murder. Our interview finally ended and as he was being led away, larry conceded to his guard that we werent buying his story. They think i am a lying scumbag. While larry admitted to being a liar, he never admitted to the bombing attempts. And even connie didnt believe her husband of 25 years would try to kill her. Not until larry called her, shortly after he was arrested. While connie was still in the hospital. He said, i want you to know i have been having an affair, before it gets out. And then, he said, and since since the accident, ive been dedicated to you. And then, he said i didnt do it. And when he said he was dedicated to me. Its, like, a light bulb went off, like, hes lying. You know, and i knew, you know what . He did it. Just from that . Just from that one phrase that he was dedicated to you . Right. Weird. Because i knew he wasnt. Its like my mind was open, at that time. Like, whoa. Its you. 19months later, connie painfully pulled herself into court. And testified against the man, who had once promised to love, honor, and cherish her. As long as they, both, shall live. My ears were ringing. It was so loud. Larrys defense . The same story he shared with us. He had been framed by the mysterious jerry. Would you hand the verdict forms to the bailiff, please . To no ones surprise, the jury didnt buy it. We, the jury, in the aboveentitled cause find the defendant, lawrence Gerald Hoagland guilty of the crime of attempted murder. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. A month later, at his sentencing, connie and the kids read victimimpact statements. It was the first time any of them had spoken to their dad, since his arrest. Larry is no longer my father. And i am no longer his daughter. I havent spoken to larry, in almosttwo years. And after today, i will never see or speak to him, again. Larry, you disgust me. He does not deserve or have the right to to refer to us as his family, anymore. When larry dies in prison, no one will shed a tear. I exercise my divine right to wash my hands of you. Your soul is of no concern or consequence to me. And now, you. You will live your hell. Words that some dads might consider a punishment, harsher than a life in prison. Which is, in fact, the sentence larry received. Life, plus 13 years. Do you guys feel like you are better off now . Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot better. I know, its weird to think that, after all of this and but we are. Were closer. And we know each other, better. And weve seen each other at our lowest but we are closer, and were all stronger, as a family. Two and a half years after the bombing, connie was up and walking, unassisted. On this night, heading to the podium to receive the citizens of Courage Award from the San Diego County d. A. s office. Hey, i can walk. Yes for having the guts to face her husband, her attempted killer, in court. When you went into court and stared him down, what was larry thinking . You tell me. I think he just, still, thought that i didnt think he did it. I sort of get the feeling that, maybe, larry thought that you were the kind of person who wouldnt have the strength to testify against him. I think youre right. I think he just didnt know me, as well as he thought he did. Boy, was he wrong . He was. He didnt know me, at all. Thats all for this edition of dateline. Im craig melvin. Thank you for watching. The way it was beautiful. I