Interpreted. We have to remove all doubt. Pardon me . Republicans accusing Michael Cohen of lying as Rudy Giuliani claims cohens former lawyer was one of the trump insiders talking to the president s Team Last Year about pardons. Despite this testimony from cohen last week. I have never asked for nor would i accept a pardon from President Trump. And her too. Newly appointed arizona senator Martha Mcsally, the First Air Force pilot to fly combat missions, reveals she was raped by a superior officer, explaining why she waited to share her ordeal. So, like you, i am also a military Sexual Assault survivor. But unlike so many brave survivors, i didnt report the Sexual Assault. Like so many women and men, i didnt trust the system at the time. And good day, everyone, im Andrea Mitchell in washington where nancy pelosi is scrambling to primary deep divisions in her democratic caucus, after charges of antisemitism against freshman congresswoman ilhan omar, as omars supporters counter with antimuslim complaints against her accusers. Democratic leaders are rolling out a compromise solution ready for a vote today while House Republicans are pouncing. Kasie hunt, you were interviewing nancy pelosi at her regular briefing today and this resolution is going to the floor, but its a day later than they thought. What is the compromise theyve worked out . Well, andrea, basically house leaders who are, as you know, part of the old guard in the leadership of the house, many of them have been in place for quite some time, they reacted quickly over the weekend to what had happened on friday, these comments that omar made. They put together a resolution condemning antisemitism. There are a lot of jewish members in particular but also nonjewish members who were very offended by what she said. Ive spoken with a number of them and they really wanted a chance to be able to be on the record, speaking out on the floor of the house about this topic. But when everybody got back to washington early this week, there was something of a revolt among freshmen members who said, look, this is a woman who has a personal experience as a somali refugee, she spent many years in a kenyan refugee camp, shes been subject of antimuslim bias, there was a billboard in West Virginia tying her to the twin towers attack. They were very unhappy with the fact that they felt the leadership had drafted this resolution without consulting them. It was very quick, back to the drawing board, and they started working on the language to expand it, essentially. So now what were going to see them voting on is going to be not just the condemnation of antisemitism but also islamophobia, white supremacy, and other forms of hate. There are signs they are still working out how to do this, because we were expecting a vote at noon today but it seems thats been put off. We havent seen the final text of this language yet. We do expect it to happen at some point today. This has really been the subject of much debate. And nancy pelosi was pretty careful in how she answered our questions today. She said she doesnt believe that ilhan omar intended to make antisemitic remarks but rather that she was unaware that this was an antisemitic trope. This is a generational divide, and lets also become something on the campaign trail, well be taking that up later in the program. Thank you very much for tracking this and for your questions to nancy pelosi today. Its a critical day for two former members of President Trumps inner circle. Michael cohen facing backlash from the Trump Legal Team for his denial to congress of ever seeing a pardon. And Paul Manafort being sentenced later today for bank and tax trade in virginia. Manafort could get 24 or 24 1 2 years in prison. Next week, another federal judge in washington could add another ten years or less to whatever term he receives today. Joining me now, nbc White House Correspondent kristen welker, msnbc contributor and former u. S. Attorney barbara mcquade, msnbc contributor emily jane fox, National Correspondent for vanity fair, and Atlantic Staff writer franklin mcfaul. Where do we come down today on what Michael Cohen said yesterday, whether it does spark some legitimate questions among republicans . It certainly has, andrea. A lot of folks will remember that last week Michael Cohen testified that he has never asked for a pardon from President Trump, nor would he accept one. Overnight his attorney lanny davis telling nbc news that in reality, going back to those early days after his offices were raided, that in fact there was some discussion about a potential pardon, that he directed his attorney to have that discussion with Rudy Giuliani. Here is the important thing to know about that time frame, andrea. There was a joint Defense Agreement between cohen and the president s legal team. So it allows them to have those sorts of conversations. Now, according to lanny davis, those conversations ended, of course, once the joint Defense Agreement ended. And so hes standing by the testimony, that original testimony by Michael Cohen. But Rudy Giuliani taking aim at Michael Cohen, essentially saying he used the word never, never means never, it doesnt just apply to the time when he had a joint Defense Agreement. I spoke to Rudy Giuliani who acknowledged over the past eight to ten months hes been approached by a number of different lawyers representing folks engaged in this investigation. And the discussions of pardons have come up. But guiliani told me his message has always been the same, the president is not considering any pardons. He said that holds true today, andrea, that the president is not currently considering any pardons, andrea. Obviously there are a lot of implications for Michael Cohen for his credibility. But what about the implications, barbara, of the president or anybody on his behalf even talking about a pardon . Does that raise potential issues of obstruction . Well, it depends. The reporting here is that it was Michael Cohen who approached President Trump through their lawyers, requesting a pardon. And so there might be a problem with Michael Cohen legally in doing that. But if President Trumps answer was no, then i dont think he has done anything wrong there. Whats more interesting is to know what the response was, whether it was Something Like just play ball with us now and youll get a pardon later, could be very interesting. Its interesting that Rudy Giuliani invokes the Attorney Client privilege to prevent disclosure which could be protected through a joint defense argument but of course the attorney general privilege cann Attorney Client privilege cannot be used as a shield for criminal behavior. In a pardon is used in exchange for lying for President Trump to obstru obstruct justice, that could result in a piercing of the privilege. There was also what cohen said about not being specific about a conversation, his last conversation with the president after the raid, saying that that was under investigation by the Southern District of new york, barbara. Yeah, so, again, what President Trump said would be what matters, not so much what Michael Cohen said. Did he intend to abuse his power. Of course he has absolute powers to issue pardons in all federal cases. But not if that power is abused for a corrupt purpose. So thats what the evidence would have to show. And i think you would need at least some prima facie evidence. Its a red flag, when a pardon is being used to shield criminal behavior. You were there when he said he never asked for nor would accept a pardon. Does he have some vulnerability now because there seems to be a parsing, before he flipped and after he flipped. The republicans are saying hes legally in play, that hes vulnerable. I think that the language that cohen used, if you think about it, and listen to it to the letter, is very specific. He said he never asked for a pardon. I suppose if these asks came through his attorney, that would be his argument, to say i never asked for this, my attorney asked for this on my behalf. And when he said he wouldnt accept the pardon, if you think about the tense of that, if were going down that road, he could argue that he said i would not accept a pardon now. So i think cohen was very careful going into the hearing, making sure he was not going to lie under oath. This is a man who already pleaded guilty and is on his federal prison because he lied to congress. So i think there is an argument to be made that he was very careful in his language around this. Again, this is something he volunteered, it was in his opening testimony, it was not necessarily something that was brought up because he was asked a question and caught offguard, it was something he volunteered. I mean, if you read the language to the letter, you can make that argument. This does give, as weve seen with Rudy Giulianis comments today, republicans a way to attack his credibility further which they didnt seem to even need a reason last week in the open hearing, and this just gives them further reason to continue to attack his credibility. Turning to Paul Manafort, whose sentencing comes today in the first case, in the virginia case, frank, youve been following all of this. Hes facing a pretty heavy hit depending on which way judge ellis goes. It seems an academic question, hell be spending, if not the rest of his life, the bulk of the rest of his life in the slammer. Unless hes partedoned. Unless hes pardoned. Prison gives a sense of finality to the Paul Manafort story. If you look at what Robert Muellers team has been pressing in court in some of these unsealed transcripts, its clear that their interest in Paul Manafort extends beyond bank fraud, tax fraud, failing to register under the foreign agents registration act, that there are these questions about his relationship to his long time aide and translator konstan kilimnick who theyve alleged is an asset for russian intelligence. So there are these meetings, theres polling data he passed to kilimnick, theres discussions of a peace plan. If you read the full extent of the court documents, there are many, many other questions about the ways in which manafort leveraged his time at the helm of the Trump Campaign in order to get himself out of this desperate financial situation he found himself in. The former deputy in the campaign beyond that august period when manafort left, is of course rick gates. Right. Who has not refresh our memories here, has not been sentenced. So hes still in play with mueller. Right. So the crux of the original assignment to the special counsel was the relationship with the russians. Kilimnick, arguably, is a russian intelligence operative. Right. And so this could still be something that comes out in the mueller report. Absolutely. And lets also remember that when manafort and mueller entered into a plea agreement, i think there was an implicit assumption there that there was cooperation that mueller sought from manafort which meant that implicitly, mueller knew that manafort had more to offer his investigation. And he may be getting it from other sources. Of course. The cooperation of gates is a major thing for the investigation. And they do have access to a lot of manaforts other documents. And there are other people who have been indicted along the way who certainly could shed light on whatever other schemes were in play. Barbara, what deference do either of these federal judges in the two junctions give to each other, or are they really separate issues, separate cases . Well, its very interesting. Judge ellis goes first in the Eastern District of virginia. Hes a little bit of a wild card and is known as a somewhat lenient sentencer. It wouldnt surprise me if he departs below that 19 to 24 year guideline range. I submit because of implicit bias of judges who favor the wealthy and powerful, i wouldnt be surprised to see a sentence below that guideline range. That gives judge jackson in washington, d. C. Some option. It gives her the option of either imposing her time concurrently, at the same time, or consecutively. So whatever he gives, she can tack on an additional ten years. She is likely to be a more down the middle judge. She also saw the obstruction in front of her. And so i think, combined, that is likely to yield a sentence for Paul Manafort to be a substantial amount of time and likely a life sentence. Thank you so much, barbara mcquade, frank foer and kristen welker, and emily jane fox. Coming up, going ballistic. More new images today showing further suspicious construction at that north Korean Missile site. Senator chris murphy of the Foreign Relations committee joins me next on that and other issues, right here on msnbc. C. It has a unique guard between the blades. Thats designed to reduce irritation during the shave. Because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. The best a man can get. Gillette. Ive always been amazed and still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. So if theres a better treatment than warfarin. I want that too. Eliquis. Eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. 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Are you pullin my leg . Nope. You sure youre not pullin my leg . I think its your dog. Oh its him. Good call. Get the data options you need and still save hundreds of dollars. Do you guys sell, other dogs . Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Customize each line by paying for data by the gig or get unlimited. Get 250 back when you preorder a new samsung galaxy. Click, call, or visit a store today. Theres new evidence today from a leading defense think tank that north korea has now completed work on the building of key components of a Missile Launch site. According to these new satellite images taken yesterday, four days after the original photos that we reported on on tuesday, the site has now been returned back to its normal operating status, the status prior to having been dismantled last summer, this as the white house is facing new criticism for its relationship with saudi strongman Prince Mohammed bin salman. Joining me is senator chris murphy. I want to talk to you first about north korea. Were seeing these photos obtained and analyzed by our friends including victor cha. Whats your reaction, assuming their analysis is correct that north korea is sending a very strong message, they know there are eyes on them and they are now re buildibuilding a key sit. Thats important to note, that the North Koreans know exactly what theyre doing. They know that we are going to see this and try to interpret what it means as a message. It certainly underscores the risks of leaving the summit without a deal. President trump took a big gamble, instead of trying to get a smaller, preliminary agreement, a series of k confidence building measures. He tried to go for the big comprehensive agreement even though there had been no work ahead of time to get that done. Without anything happening, the North Koreans feel like the Peace Process may not be worth it to continue to invest in and theyre rebuilding this site. There always remains the possibility, and maybe the odds are greater than even, that north korea was never going to sign an agreement, that their intent has always been to become a true Nuclear Weapons power. And so this has always been a bit out of the control of the United States. But were seeing the consequences of trumps gamble and his lack of success in getting any movement in hanoi. Are you suggesting, though, that he should not have walked away from a bad deal . No, i think he made the right call to walk away. What im saying is that its likely that instead of trying to get a big agreement, thats full denuclearization for full release of the sanctions, instead he should have been trying to get some smaller agreement. And that was probably the big mistake. Now, i want to ask you about saudi arabia, because youve been quoted as saying at the Foreign RelationsCommittee Hearing that you still have not seen a real classified briefing. And you have not heard from the intel people on the killing of khashoggi. This took place as we were finally going to, i presume, confirm general abizaid as ambassador to saudi arabia, pretty shocking that we havent had anyone there in two years. That said, what about your resolution next week to cut off arms sales for the continuing saudi war in yemen, american arms sales . Are republicans going to support you enough . Could you get a vetoproof majority here . I think its unlikely that were going to get a vetoproof majority. We had enough to get 50 votes. I dont know that we have enough to get over 60 votes. The Trump Administration is lobbying hard against it. This yemen resolution is really important. Its important for a couple of reasons. Its important because, you know, we are participating in alleged war crimes in yemen today. And we shouldnt go in even with an ally like saudi arabia if theyre going to be intentionally killing civilians as they are. Mohammed bin salman ordered the murder of jamal khashoggi. By passing a resolution that gets us out of the yemen war, it is a direct message to Mohammed Bin Salman about the nature of our relationship. So i think it serves both of those purposes. I hope were going to get as big a vote as possible. I wanted to play some of marco rubio, a notable republican with a lot of influence with this white house and this National Security council, about Mohammed Bin Salman yesterday. He is reckless. Hes ruthless. He has a penchant for escalation, for taking high risks, confrontational. Hes gone full gangster. Its difficult to work with a guy like that no matter how important the relationship is. We should point its not just khashoggi. As you know from tim kaine, there is a virginia woman in prison for our antidriving protest. Theres another woman weve been talking about as well, an american, not only an american citizen, shes an american who was married to a saudi and is having a terrible problem, since her divorce shes been stuck in riyadh, unable to travel, unable to have access to her papers, to get her child out. What about the women still locked up, and a prominent man as well . The virginia resident has been in captivity since may, and she has been electrocuted as one of their various means of torture that they take out on these female protesters. This is a regime thats gone absolutely off the rails. And i think at some point you have to decide whether or not we can continue to condone these actions. If we dont make sure that saudi arabia suffers some consequences for what they did to khashoggi and what theyre doing presently to these female protesters, then they will just ramp this barbaric treatment up, and it will be a signal to all sorts of other autocrats around the world that they can engage in the brutal repression of dissent and democracy promotion. This used to be one of the things that democrats and republicans didnt disagree on, that we were going to take a strong stand for human rights around the world. This president is making that much harder. My hope is that well pass, separate from the yemen resolution, a set of sanctions against saudi arabia. Were not the junior partner in this relationship, the saudis need us more than we need them and its time for us to stand up and say that. It used to be that secretaries of state made that a prime issue, and it used to be that american reporters werent shut out in totalitarian regimes by american officials. There are a lot of things not normal in Foreign Relations these days. Thank you very much for speaking up. Thank you, andrea, i appreciate it. We appreciate your being on today. Coming up, senator Martha Mcsally making an emotional and personal revelation. And personal revelation. The path to prosperity is not easy for everyone. Half of Small Businesses fail within 5 years. And more people than ever struggle with debt. Intuit is here to change this story. With giant Solutions Like turbotax, quickbooks and mint that give everyone the power to prosper. Intuit. Proud makers of turbotax, quickbooks and mint. To learn about their Medicare Options before theyre on medicare. Come on in. Youre turning 65 soon . Yep. And youre retiring at 67 . Thats the plan its also a great time to learn about an aarp Medicare Supplement insurance plan, insured by Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company. Heres why. Medicare part b doesnt pay for everything. This part is up to you. 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Pg e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. For more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge. Com safety. Republican senator Martha Mcsally, the first woman to fly combat missions, reveals was she raped by a superior officer among other Sexual Assaults she endured while in the military. I blame myself. I was ashamed and confused. And i thought i was strong, but felt powerless. The perpetrators abused their position of power in profound ways. And in one case, i was preyed upon and then raped by a superior officer. I stayed silent for many years but later in my career, as the military grappled with scandals and their wholly inadequate responses, i felt the need to let some people know i too was a survivor. Like many victims, i felt the system was raping me all over again. Joining me now is democratic congresswoman Jackie Speier of california, a member of the House Armed Services and Intelligence Committee. Congresswoman, i was about as shocked as i could have been. Ive known Martha Mcsally for years, i covered her in 2002. This is a tough woman. She was a lieutenant colonel, 100 missions at the time in iraq and afghanistan. And, you know, 100 combat sorties. If this can happen to Martha Mcsally, it can happen to anyone, male or female. Youre absolutely right, andrea. I want to say to Martha Mcsally, she showed extraordinary courage coming forward yesterday. I applaud her. My heart goes out to her. But this is a problem that has plagued the military for decades. I have been working on this since 2011. 15,000 Service Members, men and women, one in two women, are sexually assaulted or an attempted Sexual Assault is made on them every single year. And the number of cases that actually get to courtmartial are Something Like 500, and only 250 result in convictions. So i actually think that we have got to stop thinking that we can fix this by allowing these cases to stay within the chain of command. She said it was almost like being raped a second time. And the retaliation is so huge. 60 of those who report, also report that they were retaliated against. The system is full of cultural and were seeing it in the military academies. We had a hearing on that issue a few weeks ago. There is a time for repetanntan and a time to act. The zero tolerance argument doesnt work. There was a big debate on the senate side in the series of hearings that gillibrand and claire mccaskill, thensenator, participated in, and they disagreed about whether it should be taken out of the chain of command. But you think that something now has to be done. Theres no question that something has to be done. We always kind of bow to the military establishment and see that somehow, if we dont comply with their requests, were being unpatriotic. How about all those Service Members who are scarred for the rest of their lives, as senator mcsally indicated, it has been with her forever. And yet she stayed there. Now, i dont know that she even agrees with me on taking them out of the chain of command. But we want to keep it in the military. We want to create a separate office so that it can be reviewed by like a special victims unit, with the attorneys and the investigators there. And what were seeing now is the undue command influence thats being used by the perpetrator if actions are being brought against them. So its time for us to all come together and fix this once and for all. I know senator gillibrand agrees with you, certainly that has been her position. It seems to me there could be some action in the senate as well as the house. I want to quickly ask you, because you were at the hearing last wednesday with Michael Cohen, republicans now claiming that he lied by saying he never asked for a pardon, nor would he accept one. It was in his prepared testimony, very carefully worded. Apparently his lawyers before he decided to turn against the president , his lawyers did have those pardon conversations with the administration or with the president s team. Do you think hes subject to some real credibility issues there, or not . Or legal issues . No. Theres clearly a Campaign Going on by my republican colleagues to try and besmirch Michael Cohen at this point and say he is continuing to lie. There is nothing in it for him to lie anymore. That has the effect of only increasing his sentence. I mean, whats coming out is there is a lot of evidence that he has made available to both the Oversight Committee and to the Intelligence Committee that is very damning against the president of the United States. Now, was there a time when he sought a pardon . You bet there was. He was lying on behalf of the president. But once he decided that he no longer was going to play in that joint Defense Agreement, he was not seeking a pardon any longer and was going to pay the price. And he has said that over and over again. So weve got to make sure we understand the time frame in which he is making these statements. His return appearance yesterday, he brought suitcases. Were there documents in those suitcases and did you see some new evidence yesterday . We did see new evidence. I dont know that they came in the suitcases. But there was new evidence provided to us. New leads to follow up . Yes. There are new leads to follow up. I know you cant talk about what actually but well leave it there. Thank you as always, congresswoman Jackie Speier. Thank you, andrea. For joining us today. Coming up, democrats divided. Freshman congresswoman i wilhan omar causing friction in the party. Riction in the party. 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And eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. Eliquis is fda approved and has both. Dont stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. If you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. And it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Whats around the corner could be surprising. Ask your doctor about eliquis. And we have some breaking news on the 2020 front. Ohio senator Sherrod Brown has Just Announced he will not run for president. Instead he plans to remain in the senate. Is that another signal joe biden is about to jump in . Ron klain, a former senior white house aide to president s obama and bill clinton. Ron klain, you know joe biden as well as anyone sitting at this table. Ive been reporting that hes going to jump in, maybe trying to wait until april. Sherrod brown i thought was in, and a lot of people in the party thought he was a big factor here. Senator brown had done a lot of things to get ready, being on this listening tour, dignity of work tour. He would have been a very formidable candidate had he chosen to run. Hes not running. Ultimately Vice President bidden wi biden will decide whether this is the right thing for him and the country and his family. It removes one other person who would have been a formidable opponent in this race. He said in delaware last week that his family had decided that theyre ready, theyre ready to go, theyre ready to take whatever the burdens are and there are going to be plenty. Jim messina, weve seen mike bloomberg, another candidate, a billionaire, saying yesterday hell put his money where his mouth is, put his money into battleground states to defeat the president. Can we see this as another signal that joe biden is in . I think so. Ron cant celebrate on national tv. Joe biden would have the support of labor as would Sherrod Brown. This is the statesman, moderate lane. Bloombergs announcement yesterday was one of the most selfless thing ive seen in american politics. There was a pathway for him, and he decided to spend his own money to defeat donald trump. Thats another very good thing if youre joe biden. Joe biden is the only person in this field who can make his own decision. The others have to say, what are the other candidates, what is my lane. Biden can sit back and wait for this. Everyone thinks biden is running. The big unknown out there is beto, whats beto doing. Thats the other thing people are going to find out, reportedly, next week. And people like eric swalwell, other young, younger, members of congress who want to run, talking about running, looking over their shoulder because his viral ability. Its true, in the grassroots, i now live in San Francisco and theres more beto tshirts in the streets of San Francisco than there is 49ers tshirts. Beto is a National Phenomenon who will take some oxygen out of the race. Lets turn to our texan, or at least he knows texas politics very well. Beto orourke came close but didnt succeed if defeating, you know, ted cruz who you worked for. What is the phenomenon that beto orourke is, can he compete with joe biden, kamala harris, some of these high profile, elizabeth warren, Bernie Sanders . Im a little intimidated by the democratic experts at the table, but the way i see it, beto did electrify the progressive base. I think its very favorable to joe biden, because the progressive lane is getting very crowded. I think beto could dominate the progressive lane, but in the classic establishment progressive race, someone will emerge out of the progressive part of the party and someone will emerge out of the establishment part of the party. What favors joe biden is democrats are asking themselves who can beat donald trump. And i think you have a better chance with a more moderate candidate, toward the center, of peeling off the middle, and some republicans who dont want to vote for donald trump, then you would with a progressive. You also have the ability of democrats to just kill each other off and fight amongst themselves. Democrats complaining that joe biden said something in passing at the Munich Security Conference about, you know, how mike pence is a decent man or a good man. That lit up the internet. And now you have the whole issue in the Democratic House caucus about what to do about congresswoman omar. And Democratic Candidates are coming out, Bernie Sanders coming out in support of her. Its already dividing some of the 2020 democrats. Look, were democrats, were not an organized political party, as will rogers famously said. If he chooses to run, and hell make that choice when he makes it, Vice President biden is in unique position to unite the democrat party. I saw a poll that said the democrats are divided among a lot of labels but the one label that united the party was obama democrats. This is a party that Still Believes we had eight great years in the white house of action on health care, on the economy, on social issues, on Foreign Policy issues. The coarchitect of that era, the person that was at the side of the president doing that, is joe biden. I think he brings that legacy to the race and the opportunity to embrace a large swath of people, progressives and moderates, people of all races, all parts of our party. Hes the one candidate who can put that all together if he chooses to run. What about the age factor which did come up in our nbc news wall street journal poll, youve got elizabeth warren, Bernie Sanders, joe biden, in one group, if you will, and some of the others who are far younger. I think its a real issue. But i want to go back to ricks point. 61 of democrats say the most important issue in the democratic primary is who can beat donald trump. Donald trump unifies the democratic party. In 2008, barack obama beat Hillary Clinton on the very last day of the very last party and we all came together and won the general election. Im not worrying about unifying the party. Im worried about someone standing up to donald trump. Thats why im looking to joe biden to do that. On the age issue, the biggest, top people in this primary are over 70 years old and that contrast for beto is pretty interesting and that will help him, obviously. Vice President Biden has the obama legacy to help him. I dont think biden would exploit the youth and inexperience of beto orourke. From the Reagan Mondale debate in 1984. Great to be with all of you. Coming up, Kirstjen Nielsen under fire. I cant tell you who i am or what i witnessed, but i can tell you Liberty Mutual customized my Car Insurance so i only pay for what i need. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. You wanted to separate children and families and you wanted to do it with compassion. So in the meantime you didnt do nation at all and you let kids be vatted without tracking them. Do you know how outrageous that is, madame secretary . You have no feeling, no compassion, no empathy here. California congresswoman hammering Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen on wednesday about the controversial trump policy of separating children at the border. This as nbc news is now reporting that Border Patrol in san diego kept a watch list of reporters, activists and lawyers who were monitoring their activity, delaying their access as to migrant families, holding them at the border in some cases. Joining me now, senator dick durb durbin. I want to ask you about what was happening in the san diego crossing. This is one of the most shame flg chapters in modern american history. To being that we forcibly separated 2800 infants,ed to lette toddlers and children and then lost them. It took a federal court to finally reunite many of these and still over 150 of these children have not been reunited with their parents a year later. And i wanted to play more of that hearing with secretary nielsen and chairman thompson. For the record, madame secretary, are we still using cages for children . Sir, we dont use cages for children. In the into aborder facilities youve been to, they were not made to detain children. Just yes or no. Are we still putting children in cages . To my knowledge, cpb never purposely put a child in a cage like this. Ive seen the cages. I just want you to admit that the cages exist. Sir, they are not cages. Areas of the border facility that are carved out for the safety and protection of those who remain there while they are being processed. When is a cage not a cage. As you put it, it is a shameful policy. And i do want to save time to ask you about your resolution on venezuela on temporary protection status for refugees from this dreadful situation, the standoff in venezuela. What are you hoping to achieve . You have support from the white house for this . I dont know if we do. I certainly hope we do. Certainly rubio joined me in this letter to the president. We have 72,000 venezuelan in the United States. Weve warned americans dont go to this country, it is dangerous. The Vice President and president have said over and over again that the maduro regime is a dangerous regime. These venezuelans in the United States should not be forced to return to venezuela. It is in the president s hands and i hope they will give them temporary protective status. And what is the situation there . Do you ruyou rule out military . I dont support military action. I believe what we ought to do is use every other means diplomatic especially to put pressure on this Nicolas MaduroNicolas Maduro regime so that they will have a fred credible election with international monitors. That is the goal that we should be pushing for. We should stand behind the venezuela people and against this regime. And before you let you go, there is news just now that Sherrod Brown has decided to stay in the senate and not run for president which a lot of uts are interpreting to mean that there is no doubt now that joe biden is getting in. What is your take . I dont draw that same conclusion. I talked to him this morning. This was a personal decision. He would have been a great candidate. He is a terrific colleague in the senate and it would have been in the battleground state of ohio which we need win. The democratic field is certainly getting more crowded despite his decision. So well have a lot it talk about going forward. Are senator durbin, thank you and let us know what is happening on that venezuela front. Will do. Well be right back. Front. Will do well be right back help yout slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. 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You know what stands out to me, a great report, but what stands out is the name of that Peanut Butter psupplement, plumy nut. Which i love. Andrea. And lets try to get smarter after that. Paul manafort, get set to hear how long he will be spending in prison when he heads to court today. His first round of sentencing today including what we will and whether not learn about the mueller investigation. And the chances of a pardon. We met on many occasions with the special counsel. But he decided for whatever reason to lie to them and now he is looking at an enormous amount of time. But after today it wont be over because he faces another decade in prison related to his other case here in d. C. Next week. This indictment really does have a feel of a life time achievemen a