Transcripts For MSNBCW Andrea Mitchell Reports 20141022

Endangering yourself, senator. Oh, no, dont worry about that. And from what youve heard and seen, apparently, there were several shootings. We know also of recent briefings. You were recounting to my colleague tamron hall, tell me about the security briefings that you and your colleagues have had. To americans, of course, Parliament Hill in ottawa would be a very different experience. It is what we knew of pre9 11 here in washington when the capitol was accessible to people. Yes, indeed. The tourists come on Parliament Hill and dont see any of our officers, our security staff with guns. Nobody has a gun visibly that you can see. In one portion of the center block, there are 20 Security Officers who wear plain clothing, so you think theyre just tourists, but they do have guns. Now, thats only in onehalf of the center block. Thats the house of commons half. The lower house. Then in the senate half, where i am, nobody has a gun. Nobody has any weapon as a Security Officer when you go in through the door, nobody that you see has a weapon and nobody you dont see has a weapon. And but we did meet a couple of months ago. There was a special committee struck to discuss the matter of arming at least 20 of the security staff. And it was decided to do so. And in about three months from now, there will be security staff who would have weapons with them. And by the way im just being interrupted by a Security Officer. Senator, i wanted to tell you that we are looking at live pictures with a s. W. A. T. Team, with semiautomatics. So there are, obviously, as people are exiting the building. Mark is on the phone now. Okay. Mark suse, tell us the latest situation on what you know in terms of who might be at large. How many people are you still pursuing . Well, we dont know the exact number of suspects right now. Bebelieve its more than one. And were still actively looking for other suspects. Thats why the city remains in loun. And were asking people in the area to stay away from windows and rooftops so we can continue our search. And youre searching for more than one, as you say. What about the original shooter . Thats it. We dont know how many shooters. We dont know which one was the original and so on. Were still actively looking for the shooters. The senator was describing some regalia or uniform. Do you know describe what youre looking for. What kind of attire or uniform were these suspects wearing . Again, we dont have confirmation on the number of suspects. Description is very vague. And were actively looking for anything weve had description from wearing a scarf around their head to dressed in all black. Were looking at everyone. Was anything said by the alleged shooter or shooters . Do you have any other eyewitness accounts . I dont have any information as to what was said or if anything was said. Were still in the early stage of that part of the investigation. Our main concern is to locate the suspects. Thank you so much, mark, from the Ottawa Police joining me now from our newsroom is Pete Williams who has been checking with u. S. Officials, as well, the fbi and others, Counter Terror officials. We understand that the u. S. Embassy in that immediate area of Parliament Hill is on lockdown, as well. Yes, a procedure that has been undertaken, were told, just by where it is, not by so much what it is. Although the fact its a public building is one of the things that has led to that. And the other thing, andrea, for the past really two weeks, theres been increased concern among canadian officials. Some of it expressed publicly. Some not. The Terror Threat level was raised up a notch in canada a few days ago. There was no public announcement of that. But its a reflection of their growing concern about just this kind of thing. Canadian officials were worried there would be these sort of lowtech attacks using guns or knives or in the case of what happened in apparently montreal two days ago, a car. To attack government facilities, soldiers. So there was concern they would attack canadian or u. S. Targets within canada. That may be another reason why the u. S. Embassy in canada is also on lockdown. Theyve been following almost 100 people in canada with jihadist sympathies. People who tried to go to syria or succeeded and had come back. They were hearing a lot of this chatter. Things were reaching a pitch, they thought. And now were seeing the unfortunate consequences of what they were concerned about. The intelligence also said that they did not believe the individuals they were monitoring in canada had a desire or expressed a desire to cross into the United States to carry out attacks in the u. S. They were talking about carrying out attacks in canada against canadian and u. S. Targets. And now we know, of course, that there have been at least three targets hit. The soldiers in montreal, the soldier at the war memorial today and an apparent attempt to target the Canadian Parliament building just less than 1 3 mile away from the Parliament Building in ottawa. And, pete, let me just bring in here, michael here onset. You worked very, very closely with the canadian officials. And we know of the rising threats of isis. Lets talk about what happened in montreal. And were looking at earlier video shown during the initial lockdown after the first shooting and the apparent attempt on parliament. Sure. The canadians had been very concerned about the isis threat, just like the u. S. Has. And the home grown threat of terrorists within canada who might be inspired by the rhetoric through social media and elsewhere. And we dont have any indication yet that todays events are looked to that. But the event on monday epitomized what officials were worried about. And now an individual previously arrested by the police for suspicion of radicalization and trying to get to syria. He was ultimately released. And then on monday, he took a car, ran over two canadian soldiers, apparently targeting them. One of whom ultimately died. The suspect was shot and killed by canadian authorities. Now, there are lots of questions being asked now, if he was suspected of being radicalized, could he have been detained earlier . This is a common challenge for domestic security services. But this is exactly, again, what intelligence officials have been worried about. Someone who hadnt been to syria but likely been inspired, fairly recent convert to islam who had been inspired to take action in that case targeting Canadian Military officials. And there are at least some similarities with what weve seen today, the potential for targeting canadian officials, canadian government buildings. I think all of those with the possibility is stated by the Ottawa Police of multiple gunmen. Theres not doubt that u. S. And canadian counterterrorism officials are going to be concerned about identities. The individual on monday was caught by the police about 40 kilometers. Not very far outside of montreal. What is the status of that border . Well, theres been very deep cooperation between the canadians and the u. S. Sometimes american officials think the canadian officials arent as aggressive as they should be and there are rivalries in the canadian Domestic Intelligence service. But they are very good and competent. That border is very well coordinated. Do you need a passport to go back and forth . You do, either a passport or passport card. Some sort of identity which is officially issued. And that was actually something that the canadians fought for some time. Complaining about the thickening of the border. Theres enormous incentive to have that border be free and open for economic trade and tourists. Pushed to make it increasingly difficult to cross to ensure people can come over, but we know who they are. And we can do intelligence checks on them. Now, we should emphasize there is no known connection between what is happening now in canada and isis or isis sympathizers. But that is certainly a very large undercurrent. For top of mind, in fact. Pete williams, three american teens, three young women underage from the colorado, denver, colorado, area, were stopped by the help by officials in germany. They had been missing from their parents and apparent ly gotten from frankfurt and possibly trying to go to syria. Yes, although, we should be careful to draw a distinction here. It may be the core of all of these things, theres the same sort of very broadly speaking desire. What were told now is these three women, 15, 16, 17yearolds from the denver area who took cash and got their passports from their parents. They were not like steely eyed jihadists. They were more caught up in the romance of it. And one of them may have been trying to strike up a relationship online with someone that she thought was in syria who may actually have turned out to have been in turkey. Doesnt appear theyll be charged with anything for a couple of reasons. One is, as i said, this appeared to be something more on the side of a lark on the side of a jihadist mission. And the second thing is, theyre all underage and prosecuting juveniles in the federal system is a rare and complicated thing. Theyd be charged with juvenile delinquency and they couldnt be held past their 18th birthdays. So while they continue to investigate it and look to see if these young women in colorado had any other connections with anybody in the u. S. , it doesnt appear theyre going to in any way prosecute. And Chris Jansing, b understandably, the president has been notified of this. What are you hearing from the white house . Yeah, hes been kept up to date. I talked to a Senior Administration official who said he was in the Daily Briefing as all of this was breaking. He would have been with his National Security adviser susan rice. And speaking of Homeland Security, lisa monaco, as well, Homeland Security adviser. And the whole relationship changed when Homeland Security was created after 9 11. So thats a close working relationship that they have. But also, and while its important to note, again, as youve been doing that theres no motive thats been ascribed to this. There has been heightened concern in canada, and that just happened on october 8th that canada would join the u. S. Led coalition against isis, and they agreed to take part in some of what was happening in iraq. Theyve contributed six cf18s, fighter jets, crews, reconnaissance, aircraft. That has been very much top of mind at the white house in this relationship. The big story out of here today was supposed to be the start of the ebola czar. He has a meeting with him at 3 00 this afternoon and afterwards well get a camera in there and see if the president makes any comments, andrea. Thanks so much, Chris Jansing. Joining me now from new york, mark help us understand the geography here. The war memorial is right across from the Parliament Hill. Well talk to me about those locations. Absolutely, andrea. This is the heart of ottawa. Its a city of 1 million people. Its at the middle of three busy streets. Its an intersection in the heart of ottawa. It is very close to Parliament Hill. Whats interesting, its actually directly across the street from the Prime Ministers office. The pmo in the block. That is in the building thats literally facing the war memorial. So were the Prime Minister to be working in his offices not in the houses of parliament, he would be right there. The pictures youre looking there at the post office are also facing that monument. And then if you go to the satellite view, youre seeing. So if you look at this view. Those two lawns that, is the center block of parliament. On the left side would be the house of commons, the lower chamber, the elected chamber, on the right side, the appointed chamber. Thats the two semicircular lawns there. Pedestrians have complete access to that lawn. Its widely open. A few years back, a Greyhound Bus was hijacked for a hostage negotiation that went on in 1989. These sorts of incidents arent completely foreign to the psyche, but obviously something that the country prides itself in not having that horrible history of armed violence 6789 right behind it, that building is where the Prime Ministers officer is actually located. So the gunman, if he went here, he wouldve crossed that busy street, wellington street up on to Parliament Hill where you see that broad, the green roof. That is the east block of Parliament Hill. It has an east block, center block, west block. The east block is where the senators have their offices. He wouldve traversed that lawn to get to the center block thats labeled Parliament Buildings there and to have gone in. And the video weve seen of the shooting was actually in the Center Corridor of the center block, which is really very, very close to the houses of parliament. Where if theyre in session, all the elected legislators would be sitting. And, if you can help us also understand how many people would be involved with these earlier video from inside, just when the lockdown and shooting were taking place. How many senators . How many members of the lower house . Several hundred members of the houses of parliament, a little fewer in the senate, which is an appointed body. On any given day, they wouldnt all be there. They would tend to be there most often during question period when the Prime Minister is answering questions. It doesnt appear to me from what im hearing that the parliament, the house was sitting at that time. Although, i dont know. But i would stress, this is a very heavily trafficked part of the city. Tourists constantly visiting. These are the Main Attractions of the capital. The American Embassy, notably, is about two blocks to your right in that picture. Not far from here built some number of years ago, and there was some considerable controversy about the security of that embassy being so close to other buildings, so close to public streets in ottawa. This is really the central tourist attraction, if you will, in ottawa is the houses of parliament, it is Parliament Hill. And so, quite certainly if this gunman made his way from the war memorial to the center block, he wouldve passed lots of tourists on the way who would have been scattering for cover. Michael lighter is here with me, as well. As we reported, there was this incident on monday and the shooting of this driver who had run down two Police Officers. Members of the military. Two members of the military. One fatally, and questions being raised about the fact hed been in prior custody, had been released. And now there are going to be questions about, sadly, about the lack of security here. We heard senator baker on earlier talking about the fact they are unarmed on the senate block, not in the lower house at this point. And the senate was about three months away from having armed guards there, as well. Theyve had the kind of access that we can remember from years and years ago. Well, it really was striking. I would fly from washington to ottawa when i was in the government and youd go in and it felt very much like a pre9 11 environment. A lovely, lovely spot as mark has conveyed. And the proximity of the u. S. Embassy really only a few blocks away between two very, very busy streets. But ottawa is a relatively, you know, its 1 million people, its a relatively quiet place. Markedly Different Levels of security between washington and ottawa despite our proximity and our sort of very deep coordination on all of these issues. And the embassy in lockdown now, theres been controversy about the levels of security at u. S. Embassies. Particularly, there was the commission during the period after our embassies were attacked. Right. To require more setbacks. This embassy in ottawa, new . It is relatively new. But its a striking piece of architecture sitting, again, between two very, very busy thoroughfares. Completely normal, i think, for them to lock it down. Just the proximity alone, they would do that, even if it were farther away, i think, under these circumstances when they have a targeting of government buildings. Really much better to be safe than sorry. No indications that the u. S. Is being targeted in any way. But once you have major government institutions being targeted, the u. S. Embassy is going to lock down in almost city around the globe. We know there are about 70 ctv cameras in this area around the buildings. Going through the video, so they are basically reracking that video to see what they can find and try to locate how many shooters, who they might be, whom are they looking for . Better descriptions than they had from the initial eyewitness reports. We also know from the canadian officials that the Prime Minister is safe. We dont know a location, but we have a statement coming up from the Prime Minister himself. They are saying he is safe, not on Parliament Hill, is being briefed and will make a statement shortly. We should recap, also, the fact, michael, mark, from ottawa, joining us from new york. That canada has joined the coalition, has helped with as Chris Jansing was reporting from the white house, has helped with supplies, arms, with air support against isis. What are you hearing . Yeah, i think thats right, andrea. And you and i have been through these sorts of events. One thing we have to remind viewers, almost every first report will be wrong. And thats why the videotape evidence is so critical because if police can review that, they can figure out how many shooters and whats involved. And this statement from the office of the Prime Minister of canada. Earlier today, there was an attack, our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those attacked. The Prime Minister is safe and not on Parliament Hill and being briefed by security officials. The Police Continue to do their important work and we are still gathering the facts, the Prime Minister will make a statement later today. Details to follow. So we know, mark, that the Prime Minister is safe, hes being briefed. Hell have a statement later today. I think one of the points i wanted to make here, there were a couple of important factors here. Canada prides itself on being different than many other countries in how it approaches security in the presence of guns in the country. And i think each of these incidents prompt a lot of soul searching in canada about whether that is an appropriate approach going forward. And im sure this incident will provoke that. Its worth noting that it was 30 years ago this year that an armed disgruntled Canadian Forces soldier actually barged into the Quebec National legislature, sat in the speakers chair for hours armed, and ultimately was talked down from that chair in a very famous incident by the sergeant at arms all on television. So i think given the history of that sort of Security Breach in a legislative assembly, itll provoke a great deal of thought about how this gunman apparently got so close to the house of commons. Indeed. And i want to read a briefing from our Senior Investigative producer. The police in canada have confirmed to nbc and msnbc that multiple gunmen were involved in a coordinated series of shootings in downtown ottawa near the war memorial. Parliament where the shots were fired and the center mall were placed in lockdown as this hunt for suspects are continuing. So far, one soldier was reported shot, his condition is not being released. One gunman may have been shot and possibly killed. That is not confirmed. One other gunman is on the loose. Multiple downtown ottawa buildings were on lockdown. In new york, increased patrols have not yet been announced according to john deenst of wnbc. Despite local reports, everyone in the center is now safe and they claim that no shooting occurred there. Jennifer page says that the mall is on lockdown, theyre cooperating with local officials, local police to ensure the safety of everyone in the mall. No motive yet has been ascribed to the incidents. However, in the u. S. , Police Officials have told nbc they are sending officers to visit Recruitment Centers and military installations to introduce themselves to officers on duty. In los angeles, authorities are planning extra Police Patrols according to officials. However, there are multiple isis or isil threats. And officials is the chief ongoing terror concern. The police have publicly stated they were watching at least 90 known isil sympathizers. The fbi has been working closely with canadian officials as Pete Williams has been reporting as both nations watch for threats against their citizens and residents. And some more background on isil in both the u. S. And canada. As nbc news reported last week, canadian officials have been concerned about the potential for knife and gun attacks in canada on both u. S. And canadian targets, including military personnel because of the nations involvements both canada and the u. S. In the International Fight against isis. Earlier this month, Prime Minister Steven Harper in canada announced that canada would deploy six planes to bomb targets in isiscontrolled areas. Soon after harpers announcement, intelligence officials told nbc news that canadian authorities had heard would be terrorists discussing potential isisinspired knife and gun attacks against u. S. And canadian targets inside canada. Theyve been concerned, according to the reporting that the attacks have a lower threshold from desire to action than relatively sophisticated attacks using explosives. That could shorten the time line between radicalization and overt attacks. After radical islamic convert martin rulo used a car to run down confirmed he was one of 90 individuals the government had been monitoring. Intelligence officials said they had not picked up talk of anyone crossing the border into the u. S. To stage attacks. They are stressing that possible attacks were at the aspirational stage. Authorities in the u. S. Have been working closely, though with the canadian counterparts. Intelligence Officials Say the canadians are monitoring hundreds of people in canada who have either gone to syria to link up with isis and other islamic groups and returns or who have tried to make that trip. It indicates a high level of concern, a level of concern about aspirational attacks, not sophisticated attacks involving explosives, but these are easier to launch because they are less complicated. And a high level of surveillance of the known people up to 100 or more who have aspired to go to syria, potentially through europe, through istanbul. But we dont know who else might be out there. And that tracks exactly what officials have been concerned with. And there are three aspects. I always loathe to look to terrorism for the first explanation. Most of the time, its not terror related. I think there are three indicators here that are going to make people very, very nervous. The first is the intelligence that you just talked about. There is a strong indication both in the u. S. And canada of small scale cells like these doing simple attacks like this. Second, the report we got in addition from the Ottawa Police not that long ago that there were multiple shooters in here. And multiple shooters suggest some more organization than might otherwise be. And third, the targets. Youre talking about the war memorial, the parliament. These are really iconic government targets that are what exactly what isis and its propaganda has been pushing towards people to attack. So, we dont know, but there are at least three indicators there that suggest this is not your run of the mill shooting that you might see in many other cities. And softer targets, obviously, than those that would exist here in the United States, which are better protected. I wanted to bring in Allison Sander who is with cfra radio and on the scene near the Police Barricades there. Allison, please bring us up to date as to what you are seeing. Well, just a few minutes ago, police ran by us with their guns drawn as they chase whats believed to be one of the suspects towards one of the main shopping malls. Now, we know that earlier in the day, this all started when a man who is described as having long hair and a bandanna covering his face took out a long rifle and opened fire on a soldier who was standing guard at our National War Memorial. That individual remains in the hospital with a gun shot wound to the chest. Now, the suspect was seen with another person flowing towards Parliament Hill, which is just a matter of meters away. And it was inside parliament that the sergeant at arms who is the man responsible for all of the security in that building shot the suspect dead. So we know that there is one dead in this situation. And we know there are other shooters. Now, police, again treating this very much as an active scene. We have been forced further and further away from where the initial shootings took place. Gunfire has been heard, and police remain here on scene. Some of them standing with their guns drawn. Others taking cover behind their Police Vehicles as they try to not only find the suspect, but ensure that the safety of everybody is, you know, is top of mind here. Because as you could imagine, there is a fairly large crowd interested in seeing what is going on here. And so theres a lot of bystanders, and theyre Getting Police officers saying, please, if you can, stay away from ottawas downtown court. They have locked a number of buildings. The Prime Minister of canada was in parliament at the time. He is safe and was taken away to another location. But, there are mps who were still inside the building who were told not to tweak, not to call anybody until they got this situation under control. And that was hours ago. So Police Dozens of Police Vehicles on scene, and were talking two Police Forces now. Youve got Ottawa Police on the Royal Canada Mounted Police who are also in charge of this investigation. And, allison, just to clarify, you said the Prime Minister Steven Harper was in parliament. Was parliament in session . Or was he attending a meeting there . Can you clarify that . From what i understand, he was attending a meeting. That meeting obviously was brought to an end and he was ushered out of the building to safety. Now, we know he was supposed to have an event in toronto this afternoon. However, that likely will be canceled in light of whats been going on here. And as i mentioned before, again, much of downtown ottawa under lockdown. Were talking public buildings also evacuated including the nearby shopping mall. Theres also as far away as the university of ottawa had been locked down. Police stations also in lockdown because they dont know how far this threat extends. Allison, this is pretty extraordinary for any city, any capital city in particular and certainly for ottawa because this is normally an area of high tourism without guns, without a lot of security, at least visible security, correct . Well, thats right. We know you see them all the time. You see the ceremonial guard walking by, you see mounties. For the tourists, and this is a safe city, and it is known to be a safe city. Something like this is so far out of the ordinary. And thats why you have so many people here who are just trying to figure out what is going on. Allison sander, our radio reporter there, thank you so much. And we wanted to bring you also some eyewitnesss to what happened. Just within the hour there in ottawa. Well, we were working on the statue and heard a bunch of plops, and i thought it was just fire crackers going off. I look across the street, and there was a man with a rifle shooting at a bunch of people. So we, you know, i yelled at all my guys. Guys shooting, everyone, you know, get down, get down. Heard the first shot, took a look over, second shot, then i realized what was going on. And i kind of took a, you know, took cover. Jim cavanaugh is a Law Enforcement analyst and, of course, a former atf investigator. Jim, when were talking about weapons and what apparently happened today and the number of shooters theyre looking for, what is the challenge now for the rcmp . Right, andrea. Well, the challenge is always to locate first the gunman and isolate them. And, of course, evacuate anybody who is nearby and eliminate the threat. You know, its sort of telling that this guy could shoot the soldier and then run across the open ground toward the Parliament Building. Ive been in that Parliament Building, and ive been there right on the steps with the rcmp when i was working for atf. And i know that the areas very small. But nobody should be allowed to be running across that open area toward a parliament with a long gun. And, of course, the to build on what michael said, i agree that we dont have a confirmed connection to international terrorism. But the evidence is the threats on the web, the canadians entrance into the war with their fighter jets just a couple of days ago, the running over of the soldier in canada a couple of days ago. And the eyewitnesss here who have been on msnbc talking about, you know, what they saw multiple shooters, and theres some hearsay testimony that was on the hour before that they had all in black and maybe a scarf on their face with arabic writing. So its mounting indicator that it is an organized, small terrorist operation. Its not confirmed for sure. But madmen dont operate normally, although i could cite you a few cases, but madmen dont operate normally with partners, two or three, lets go down and kill everyone at the parliament. Normally thats an organized criminal cell, antigovernment operation. But in this case, likely internationally terrorist inspired. And, jim, and michael lighter also with me here. I want to ask both of you about richards reporting that there are officials going to Recruitment Centers in los angeles, for instance. To perhaps increase security or talk to people there. Tell me what you think is the connection with military recruitment as a potential target, michael. Well, i think isis has made quite clear target thats piece one. Piece two is, we have a history where this is actually happened. 2009, Carlos Bledsoe shot and killed two Army Recruiters in little rock, arkansas. He killed one, shot a second, bledsoe had trained with al qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in yemen, ultimately sentenced to life in prison. Targeting recruiting centers. You then have this last piece of the Canadian Military officers struck by the car outside montreal on monday. So its a really obvious thing. And its a good thing for the fbi and state and local officials to do. Make sure that military officials who are, you know, recruiting across this country understand that by the nature of their uniform, they might well be an easy target or an attractive target to people who are radicalized by isis or al qaedas message. And our own colleague Kristen Welker is reporting from the white house that at this point theres no change from the security level here in the u. S. Its too early to know what the motivation could be for this incident. But u. S. Officials are, of course, in close contact with canadian partners continuing to monitor the facts as they come up. Jim cavanaugh, in terms of the threats from isis against the u. S. , canada, and coalition partners. This is an obvious attempt to punish and deter and frighten others from joining the coalition. Exactly. Its a guerrilla world war. Were in the midst of it. I would say its smart money to go to recruiting centers, and to be a little more alert right now. Youve got to stay ahead of these guys. You cant wait until the action happens. Youve got to be a step ahead. Warnings, theyre sometimes subtle. Smart money to send Police Officers to Recruitment Centers, more people on duty. Government buildings. I always want to be ahead. I like to move a little earlier than some, maybe. And weve got more eyewitness reports. Lets watch. Just five, ten minutes ago, walking along the front of the memorial. I was just passing just over here, and all of a sudden just heard a shot turned around and there was a guy with a rifle just around on the back corner, and just, pow. Pow. And then i saw one of the other armed forces guys just running, and he came running, he barrelled over just ran right over. The other guy just dropped and then the other one ran over. I just started running at that. Enough to look back to just dive underneath and then immediately called 911. The man who shot, what did he look like . What kind of weapon did he have . It was a rifle. Like a longbarrelled rifle. Long. I mean, again, i dont know what im supposed to say or not supposed to say. Is this man dressed in uniform . No, he was dressed in civilian clothes with a hoodie and like a a bandanna up to his i saw a bandanna. And anything you can tell us about the color of anything he was wearing . Theres actually a guy with a perfect picture of him. One of the bystanders holding the rifle and everything. A perfect description. And mark, youre from ottawa, our Senior Vice President in new york. We can look at these pictures. How malls are being emptied. They are widening the search area. Absolutely. The picture on the left is taken from the south looking up towards Parliament Hill and that appears to be the west block. You can see the Police Moving across. This is taken from a Vantage Point of three or four blocks south of the apartment buildings. The cfra reporter mentioned that the university of ottawa is in lockdown. Thats looking at the right side map. Thats off the map to your right. So clearly, this is expanding. If you look at that ovalshaped park sort of at the center of the picture, the American Embassy is the building to the right of that. That long, narrow building, that is the United States embassy. You can see this perimeter is expanding. Clearly, the authorities are worried they havent put an end to this yet or theyre not sure they got everyone who was involved and theyre concerned about that. And as you can see, theyre talking to witnesses and some witnesses clearly have pictures and have other video evidence, as well. But what were talking about from at least two descriptions that weve heard from eyewitnesss are someone with a long rifle, a long gun and a n bandanna over his face. Michael, were not talking about anything identifiable in any fashion as a uniform or an insignia. But this does appear to be coordinated. It appears to be. But, you know, and Jim Cavanaugh will recognize this, too. There is almost nothing worse than eyewitness testimony in some of these situations. And thats why lots of this video, the photographs, that will be key. That will tell a very clear story. So, even the multiple shooter piece, which was told to us by Ottawa Police. That can be confused. Youll remember in the Navy Yard Shooting not so long ago, reports of multiple shooters turned out to be just one. People get confused. They see officers. So right now, what we know sounds like civilian clothes with a bandanna. And Jim Cavanaugh, talk to us for a moment about guns in canada. The gun laws and the availability of rifles, obviously, hunting would be a very big activity in canada as it is in the United States. But canada has more strict gun laws than the United States. Theres a lot of hunting and rifle shooting, certainly, but the gun laws are more strict there than they are in the United States. Were more of an open system with our firearms. So they have more controls. But nevertheless, guns are available, clearly guns are available everywhere. And theyve had horrible incidents, you know, with Police Officers shot. Assault weapons and so forth. They have crime problems, not the problems we have because of population is so different. They might have 18 million or 20 million people. Its a Different Society from the size and the volume and the tradition of their laws. Theyre such great allies to us. This is heartbreaking for us to watch. But theyre going to have to new day now in canada with security at the parliament. They know. Theyve got to change now. This is not, you cant escape these attacks and if this turns out to be, i know we dont have the final word and its not totally confirmed, but if it turns out to be internationally inspired terrorism, then theyre going to have to really look at it, if it turns out to be the work of a madman, theyre going to have to ramp up their security. And they are clearly our closest allies, closest and largest trading partners, nato allies, as well. Charlie angus joins us now by phone. He was in the caucus today, he heard the shots, joining us on the phone. Thank you very much for joining us. Tell me where you are right now. Are you in lockdown . Or did you get out of the building, sir . Thank you so much for your concern. We were in the Center Building of parliament this morning. We meet our caucuses in the center hall of parliament. One door goes into the conservative caucus of the Prime Minister, the other goes into ours, the official opposition, the democrat with our leader. So we suddenly heard a whole series of gun shots. They sounded like they were right outside the door. These are old parliamentary doors. Theyre not steel doors. You realize how fragile they are. And suddenly you realize this is just like columbine. And what do you do . Our members of parliament tried to secure the doors, people under tables. We heard a second series of shots. We knew this wasnt going away. And then a third series of sh s shots. Then parliamentary security and security on the hill, theyre like family. We talk every day. They were very worried. They said, weve got to get you out. They tried to get us down the hall as fast as they could. I was with a group of about ten mps, a number of younger mps separated from the rest. Found ourselves in the middle of the parliamentary precinct as the police and the army were coming on the hill. But we were okay and were in a building right across the road watching the whole from our window. Were all in lockdown, but were watching, and it seems to have been secured on parliament, but i cant tell you whats happening elsewhere in the city. Can you tell me how many members of the caucus were with you when you were escorted safely out of the building . Well, we had almost our entire theres about 308 members of parliament. So in our caucus, we have about 100 members. So we were all in that one room. Three exits. And all of them basically lead back into the main part of the parliamentary building. So it wasnt the best place to be in when a gunman came, but fortunately we were all in it together. We got out of the side. They tried i think a number of us were moved into a tunnel that took them into a building. My group got separated. Thats just what happened sometimes in the chaos of it. But im thinking of our security on the hill. Wonderful people people. They put themselves on the line to make sure we got out safe. And we were talking to senator baker earlier from the other body. And he said they were planning to have Armed Security on the senate side but it existed in your block. Our security certainly to come in parliament, you cant get into the parliamentary side of the senate side. You have to go into a public entrance, but clearly someone tried to breach the center doors. There are other security there will certainly be a revision and an examination of everything that took place today. And that will be good. What i really want to stress, though, for your viewers so that people understand. Parliament hill, it belongs to the people of this country. Its an amazing place. People come out and they do yoga. They do frisbees. Allowing people come out, two or three protesters who are angry that want to protest something, we have to maintain this public place so people this is our democracy. We have to make it more secure, we have to ensure the crazies cant stop it. But we cant give into the fear. This place belongs to the people of our country. And we have to secure it, but we have to keep it. So that it is an open place for the people of our country to celebrate the protests, to come out and to be seen. Charlie angus, if you could standby for a moment, thats such an important reminder, the balance, of course, that weve been struggling with here in the United States. Certainly. Between security and access. Joining me on the phone is justin ling, currently in lockdown. Thanks so much for being with us. Are you inside the Parliament Building . Outside . Where are you in lockdown . Im inside. So the shooter basically reached the doors like charlie was saying in center block which is where the house of commons and the senate of canada are. Im actually in that building. Im on a different floor, but im a little far up. My office is actually not far from the hall of honor, overlooks the hall of honor a little bit. And thats where i walk through that hall of honor. I didnt today. But im in lockdown. Not too far justin, i dont want you to be too specific about where you are right now until we know everythings secure, but if you can describe what you are able to see or what you know. Are they still going, going doortodoor . What what can you see from your Vantage Point . We know they are going doortodoor. Im not sure why i suspect this building is very, very intricate and twisting hall ways. Its one of the reasons. Two other active shooting locations and the possibility more could crop up. I suspect thats one of the reasons its taking so long. Kind of situation right now were all, i think, waiting to see the s. W. A. T. Team to come on and tell us everythings secure. And, from the pictures from the exterior from some of the interior pictures, this is an old building, it is a very large building. Across the street, its the memorial where the first shooting took place where we know that one reservist Canadian Forces member. I dont have anything new on that. Looks like she ran across the street to Parliament Hill itself. Harder to get up to. At least one car was involved. That had abandoned those cars at the foot of parliament. Probably a three or four minute walk up there. Its not quite clear how they made it that way. Kind of open territory to the center block building. But evidently they did. Thats basically what happened. Those are all on lockdown now. We p dont have a time line. Canada had raised the domestic Terror Threat from low to medium tuesday because of an increased general chatter from i islamist organizations. This is according to the a. P. Was there any increased security that you noticed when you went to work today in the building . After the attack on monday and yesterday, this morning, i did not see anything increased. We can assume there was more covert surveillance happening. We know for a fact that the Intelligence Agency were doing more investigations because they formed a list of 90 individuals they believed became radicalized and were capable of carrying out attacks. They p probably and the security, of course, the security the threat level was raised, we know theyre probably doing a lot more surveillance, a lot more active investigation. Evidently, it wasnt enough, and this attack managed to be carried out. The u. S. Military, tell nbc news that norad has gone on high alert posture. High alert posture as a result of the attacks in ottawa. Navy captain jeff davis who was the spokesman, quote, we have taken appropriate measures to respond to the ongoing situation in ottawa. Should it have an effect on aviation . North com officials said as of now, no Fighter Aircraft have been scrambled in response to the situation and that any threat would have to be, quote, aviation related before norad would get involved. The north American Aerospace Defense Command responsible against threats to the u. S. And canada. Tell us what this means. Its part of north com, a northern command. I would not read into it too much. This is them saying were watching this, coordinating everything with our counterparts. Theres a canadian commander within north com and norad. Its a joint command parts of it. Watching to see if theres anything broader and bigger. People shouldnt read into this too many. And we should just reset the table here. Were talking about multiple shootings confirmed by nbc news from canadian officials. Our closest ally, not only geographically, but this is an ally where the u. S. Embassy is right there on Parliament Hill. Just as the Canadian Embassy is the only embassy located at the foot of capital hill. Built as a testimony to the close coordination and, in fact, some said it was because of canadas assistance. And there was a ceremony at the state department thanking the canadian ambassador at the time in tehran for hiding diplomats. Theres no closer relationship other than great britain, but geographically, canada is as close as it can be. So much so, that sometimes makes canadians feel uncomfortable saying were with you, but we are still independent. The security relationship, the economic ties, unbelievably tight. And i would also stress americans also dont understand the sacrifice that canada has made over the past 13 years in supporting the global war on terror. In afghanistan in particular. Canada has lost more soldiers pe capita in afghanistan than any other country in the world. I wanted to bring in Charlie Angus. First of all, just sharing with you that we are told from ottawa from the hospital that we can confirm that the ottawa hospital has received three patients, two of which are in stable condition, should be directed to the department of national defense. No further updates at this time from the ottawa hospital. But just to follow up on what michael was saying, how controversial has it been as a member of parliament and member of the opposition for you to be so engaged now in this war against isis and previously in afghanistan, of course, and in iraq . Well, i thank you for this interest. And certainly, you are big cousins on the other side of the border. We are close on so many issues. Weve been in debates here on the role canada should play in the terrible situation in iraq. Our party was supporting the humanitarian efforts because this is what weve been asked by the iraqis and the kurds on the ground. These issues would come up. Many years in kandahar. We lost a lot of men and women in kandahar. Didnt turn us into an unsafe society. Didnt turn people crazy. Things happen. I think we need to look at the geopolitical issues, but we also need a context of what it is that makes our democracy strong. We dont know exactly whats happened here. We know the terrible killing of a soldier. Beautiful little quebec town with the college. That person was a local guy who became socalled radicalized. I think he may have adopted any manner of crazy theorys to back up whatever demons he was fighting. I do not want to do as a parliamentarian is allow that kind of craziness to deflect us from what it is that we should be doing as a country, what it is we should be doing as a democracy to keep our people safe, to keep our place, our country open. Because that is the hallmark of what makes our democracy strong is that it is a place where people can be part of. That people can be heard. And people can dissent. And these from the discussions were going to need. As im talking, im watching s. W. A. T. Teams securing one of the top of the Parliament Buildings. I never thought this day would come, but we have to assume these days can happen. And we cannot be deterred by it. Charlie angus, an important reminder. And for you in lockdown there as a member of parliament. There was also an eyewitness recounting some of what happened outside. Lets watch. We saw a man with a mask over his face, a scarf. Blue pants and a black jacket and a doublebarrel shotgun. Ran up here and hijacked a car at gunpoint. Didnt hurt the gentleman in the car, and took off toward the back and headed toward the construction. And michael, as weve been watching, Charlie Angus and some of the others weve spoken to who are in lockdown, members of parliament, reminding us it is a very special situation there. It is an open society. They have not experienced what we did in 9 11. And they have not resorted to the security procedures that we have here in washington, which many people believe are excessive at times. Yeah, thats absolutely right. I think by almost any measure, canada has been more protective of some of the Civil Liberties that are common between our countries, and they havent been as forceful, and i think thats part historical, part tradition, and part of where the threat has really been focused. Canada has seen a threat from terrorists abroad and domestically. But it hasnt seen the level of threat and damage that we did in the United States on 9 11. Michael, thanks to you. And that is it for thats it for us for now. Our coverage continues, ronan farrow, my colleague takes over. Unfolding fast as andrea reported, were following breaking news in the capital of canada. The u. S. Military has just responded. We are hearing right now norad is in a posture of high alert. Thats the language being used. Theyre saying thats routine for this kind of emergency over the border. But it is happening right now. This is all after three shootings in ottawa, less than a mile from each other, including the Canadian Parliament building. That forced that building into lockdown. Take a listen to this. Its dramatic video shot earlier today inside the parliament. Dramatic stuff. A gunman shot dead after opening fire at that parliamentary building. A member of parliament tweeted this quote. Mom, im okay. Im in hiding. A canadian soldier standing guard at the National War Memorial nearby was also shot in the second of those incidents, shots also fired finally at a shopping mall. Police confirmed there are multiple suspects at this point. Various reports of up to three. Working on confirming those. The shooting comes two days after a convert to islam killed one canadian soldier and injured another in a hitandrun. The Prime Minister is going to make a statement later today. Well be watching for that. Here at home, president obamas been briefed on the situation in ottawa. The white house official telling nbc news, theres no change t