0 going to actually benefit from generations much hard work that these union members have put in overtime, andrea. >> ron mott right in the middle of all of it out there in lansing, and joining me now from inside the statehouse, of course, the michigan governor rick snyder. governor snyder, thank you very much for joining us. tell me why now and why this issue, why take this on? this is not what you campaigned on. >> no. i appreciate that, andrea. it really goes back to last summertime. the labor movement, labor leaders were pushing forward something called proposal 2. they were doing signatures to put on it the ballot, which would have been a massive overreach into michigan's constitution regarding collective bargaining. i believe in collective bargaining, but this was way over the top, and i asked him not to go forward, and the reasons i said is you are going to start a very divisive discussion regarding collective bargaining first, but it also will get into right to work. it will create a big stir about right to work in addition to collective bargaining. the voters spoke in november and dramatically voted down proposal two, but then this right to work in my view to say it's on the table and make decisions and move forward. there's been a lot of discussions on the right to work in michigan for many years. over the last month or so people in michigan know about this issue, and there's been lots of ways to contact legislators, so i think there's been a lot of dialogue on this, and let's just get this done. this is to move michigan forward. about more and better jobs and worker choice. >> thank you very much, governor. thanks for joining us on a busy day. obviously there on the capitol. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. joining me in the studio for her take on what we've just heard from governor snyder and also the current state of the fiscal cliff negotiations in washington is our colleague and friend ruth marcus from "the washington post." columnist for "the washington post." ruth, this whole issue in the midwest, this used to be most likely in the southern states, but this really is moving, and we're seeing a real decline in union household membership about half what it was 40 years ago. it used to be 24%. now it's 11.8%. >> unions are reeling, and the more states that enact measures riders. it's going to be very difficult for the union movement to continue. >> ruth, let me ask you about the fiscal cliff because within the hour john boehner was on the floor and said his meeting was nice. >> cordial. >> where are the cuts? both sides saying that the other has not been specific enough about what they're willing to put on the table. the calendar now is the real enemy. they have to get some kind of outline together or else it's going to be a legislative agreement to create another commission and tregers down the road, and that is going to freak the markets. >> we'll see how freaked the markets get. you may have better insight into that than i do. also, it's not just the calendar is an enemy. the desire to have the other side take the leap first is the enemy, and also, i think keep your eye on the debt ceiling. the president's desire to wrap this in the republicans desire to kick that can down the road and have perhaps more leverage in later debt ceiling negotiations could end up also being something that makes it very difficult to reach closure here by the time we all want to go away for the holiday. >> you can say that again. ruth marcus, thank you so much. >> joining me now to discuss the chances of us getting home for the holidays and getting a deal is senator kent conrad, the budget chair and involved in all these negotiations for seven years now, senator. is there light at the end of this tunnel? >> i think there is. there needs to be. you know, what a mistake it would be to kick this can down the road. the markets wouldn't accept it. we all know that the most distinguished economists in the country have said if we do that, we're going to go back into recession. we're going to see unemployment rise to over 9%. we're going to see an economic slowdown. that would just be a serious mistake. look, we have a chance to get this right, to do a big package on both sides to negotiate up, so that the republicans accept the president's revenue, the president accepts the republicans' spending cuts, and you put it all together in a package, you save $4 trillion, and you get the debt going down, and i believe you would spur a tremendous economic spurt. >> what are you hearing as to the possibility of a grand bargain? you said earlier that you thought it was even possible. i know so much work has been done, but is the debt ceiling and foregoing that leverage, is that the deal breaker for the republicans? >> you know, i don't think it is. when i talked to republican colleagues, and i talk to them a lot, what they're interested in is if there is a package that includes the kinds of spending changes that they believe are necessary to get us on a sounder fiscal footing, and, you know, they are half right. the democrats are half right when we say we need more revenue. both sides are all right when they say you need a package that puts the two together, and, you know, what -- that's what you see, i think, in the mainstream of political thought in the senate and the house. of course, the extremes, they're going to spend over the next ten years. we can do this. we can do it. >> excuse me. i didn't mean to interrupt. when you see the president sort of going radio silent and moderating his tone in his speech in detroit yesterday, when you see john boehner saying the meeting was nice, but we were still waiting to hear what the president is putting on the table, what he is clearly trying to keep the troops in sort of reigned in and not have any open rebellion on the house floor, does the mood music tell you that something real is going on behind the scenes? >> look, i'm not in the room, so i can't say with certainty, but i am very hopeful that they are making progress and, look, it would be wise on their part not to come too quickly with a deal because that would give all the interest groups a chance to get organized and try to kill it, and we know that on the right, on the left special interest groups are just salivating at the chance to attack any agreement, because, look, any agreement is going to have controversy attached to it. here we are. we are spending 31 cents of every dollar of bore progressing 31 cents of every dollar that we spend. any deal will have to have controversy attached to it. the sooner you reveal the details, the sooner all the interest groups organized to try to kill it. >> senator, briefly, what day do you think this will come together? not too soon? not too late? the sort of goldilocks moment? >> about tuesday of next week. >> okay. i'll be there. i hope i'm there, and i don't see you on christmas eve here in washington, senator. thank you very much. >> you bet. >> appreciate your coming. >> up next, we'll be hearing from big labor. the head of the uaw and jesse jackson in michigan. has america's war on drugs failed? 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