Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20201010

From god that i caught it. This was a blessing in disguise. I feel perfect. Theres nothing wrong. I had a case. I got it knocked out. I think it was regeneron that was responsible for it. Because of that, it was sort of almost like a gift from heaven. I dont think im college tanchs at all. Im back because im a perfect specimen and extremely young. The regeneron, i view it as a cure, not just a therapeutic. I view it as a cure because i took it. People are going to get immediately better like i did. I felt better two weeks ago. Im just saying we have something now that will cure this. A cure. Even crazier than what donald trump has said are his plans today to hold a big public event at the white house even though its not clear if hes still contagious with the coronavirus. Joining me now to talk about all this, john podesta, former white house chief of staff to president clinton and former Campaign Chair for Hillary Clinton. Mr. Podesta, thank you very much for being here this morning. Good to be with you, jonathan. Before we start, i want to share some news that has come over twitter from former new jersey governor Chris Christie. Hes tweeted out. I am happy to let you know this morning i was released from morristown medical center. I want to thank the extraordinary doctors and nurses who cared for me for the last week. Thanks for the prayers from family and friends. Ill have more to say next week. Good news on governor Chris Christie on being released from the hospital. But, mr. Podesta, were hear to talk about what Speaker Pelosi spoke of yesterday, about a commission to look at the invocation of the 25th amendment. Youre a former chief of staff. Leave out who the president is. What do you make of this effort by the speaker of the house to establish this commission . You know, jonathan, the 25th amendment was passed more than 50 years ago. It can set up for the cabinet to review whether the president is fit for presidency. I think Speaker Pelosi is telling the truth when she says this isnt about donald trump right now but about some future occurrence that we see, but theres no question Donald Trumps behavior triggered Congress Finally getting around to implementing this section of the 25th amendment. When you think about the advice hes giving in the video clips you just showed and his mishandling of the coronavirus has cost the lives of 213,000 americans, the worst record in the world, you have to ask yourself is he under the influence of the drugs . Is it just more of the same, of his incapacity to feel the pain . But hes really giving messages to the American People that are endangering the lives of hundreds of thousands of more people. You know, there was just a recent study by the university of washington that said if people would just wear masks, we could save 100,000 lives by the end of the year, and President Trump is giving exactly the opposite message to the american public. Well, john, if im glad you brought that up about the masks and if the president were to tell people to wear a mask, the message it would send today. We know people have been invited to the white house on the south lawn. What message does that send to the American People . Very clearly, dont take this seriously. Go about your lives. Do whatever you were doing before covid struck the country. Hes been doing this since january, even though he knew this was a dangerous disease that could kill tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of americans. As he said to bob woodward on tape thats now been reported in woodwards book, and he continues to tell people, dont take this seriously. You know, its that combined with the other erratic behavior, the joyride he took while he was in the hospital, kind of endangering the secret service agents, the early return not just to the white house but the workspaces of the white house, the oval office, the west wing, out in the gardens, et cetera, hes putting his staff at risk, hes putting Public Servants who support him at risk, and now hes doing the same thing with the mussolini white housestyle meeting from the balcony. John podesta, thank you very much for coming on the show today. Thanks, jonathan. Joining me now robert costa and kimberly atkins, senior opinion writer for the boston globe and msnbc contributor. Robert, kimberly, thank you very much for being here this morning. I want to pick up on the 25th amendment conversation. One of the things Speaker Pelosi announced yesterday, its supposed to be bipartisan and the Vice President is supposed to be a part of i. Robert, you know these folks. Youve covered these folks very well. How is it that a Bipartisan Commission can actually be fielded . Its very unlikely at this point because as ive been reporting all week for the Washington Post t Republican Party is uneasy with President Trumps conduct as he recovers from the coronavirus. They dont like how hes walking away from the stimulus negotiating table, but they still feel like they cant do much about it because they need his political capital. Whether its Vice President pence or the u. S. Senate, at this point the Republican Party is still in lockstep with President Trump. What the speaker is trying to do is prod the gop into thinking a little harder about the president s fitness for office. They did not impeach the president. It was only senator romney who went out there against the president. And shes in a postimpeachment world trying to get them to at least consider moving toward her. Kimberly actually, robert, let me stick with you. There was a tweet President Trump sent out about the pelosi bill where he tweeted out, crazy nancy pelosi is looking to replace the 25th amendment with something that benefits biden and harris. The dems want that to happen. What concerns me is joe biden is not Vice President of the United States. How much concern is in the white house about what the president is doing now . Theres confusion across the board inside the white house, across the republican parties. See corn inand mcsally starting to distance themselves, they know theyre in the middle of a political war and the president s behavior is so unpredictab unpredictable. Kimberly, weve got to talk about this event thats going to happen today at the white house, 2,000 people. I have this full screen. Trump launches his postcoronavirus recovery tour. Hes expected to speak at the white house later today. Quote, more than 2,000 guests vn been invited to attend. What on earth . Whats he doing . There are a number of things wrong with this, right, starting with the fact youre not supposed to hold what essentially is a Campaign Event at the white house. I missed that. More importantly, theres the health risk of gathering large crowds. We know exactly what happened the last time a large white house event was held. Were just seeing the governor of new jersey Chris Christie just being released after nearly a week in the hospital. Were glad hes feeling better. But recall where he was before he went there. He was at an outdoor white house event hugging folks. This is clearly very dangerous, but its right in line with every message the president has sent before he was even released from the hospital, which is projecting this idea that the coronavirus is not scary, that if you get it, you be will cured. Of course, no one in america would get the kind of care that donald trump received after he tested positive for the coronavirus. Hes holding out a cure that does not exist. Its his desire to get back on the campaign trail. He wants to do that above all else. He wanted to be back on the road holding rallies and thats been put off until monday. Hes refused to do any debate that wouldnt have joe biden on the same stage. He wants to move paste the coronavirus and his own diagnosis even though the white house has not disclosed hes tested anything active. Still hes pushing to get back out in the public and its a dangerous message being sent when every Health Care Profession professional, Health Expert says this is a very dangerous disease, and the things hes doing is putting others at risk. Thats a great segue to go back to robert with. Is there flai anyone can say, one, mr. President , no, this is a bad idea. Two, of the people working in the white house, how freaked out are they about having a boss who h is infected still, as far as we know, with the coronavirus . Not only are they alarmed. Many have been working from home. Weve been reporting the white house can seem almost like a ghost town because there are so few staffers showing up to work as they continue to quarantine in their respective homes. Youre seeing, jonathan, culture from the top, President Trump, to chief of staff, mark meadows and other senior officials at this point in the trump presidency. This is a presidency dominated by the president. Its not like in 2017. We wrote so much about steve bannonsuseince priebus. The motivation im told, jonathan, he sees the polls. Hes behind Vice President biden. He wants to get back on the campaign trail. Real quick, robert. Are there any conversations among the cabnt aboinet about h amendment . None at all. They know the president would be lying the plague and come right after. Thank you for coming up on the show. Coming up, well give you the results of trumps fox news checkup. Keep it right here. We had a medicine that appealed to me, fixed me. People are going to get immediately better like i did. I mean i feel better now than i did two weeks ago. Its crazy. I recovered immediately, almost immediately. I might not have recovered at all. Im just saying we have something that will cure this now. A cure. Its been less than ten days since President Trump tested positive for the coronavirus. And this afternoon, the president , who may still be contagious, will hold a rally on the white house lawn. He said the guests will be instructed but not required to wear masks. On monday hell fly aboard air force one to another rally in florida. There are other questions like has donald trump. Ed negative since his release from walter reed. Trump says its in the works. I heard you said you were going to be retested today. Have you been retested . I have been retested. I havent found out any numbers or anything. Ive been retested. I know im at the bottom of the scale or free. When is your next test going to be . I dont know. Probably tomorrow, mark. They test every couple of days, but its really at a level thats been great. Great to see it disappear. But we havent seen the results of that test or heard from trumps doctor since thursday. Cdc guidelines recommend two negative tests before leaving quarantine. Joining me now. Dr. Ronald waechter from San Francisco. Msnbc contributors and author of the coming plague. Before that, Speaker Pelosi was on tthe view this week and Whoopi Goldberg asked her if she would go to the white house over the stimulus package. Listen to what she had to say. Is it time to pick up the phone . Go over to the white house . Im not going near the white house. Its one of the most dangerous places in the country. I mean, dr. Waechterwaechter not wrong. Shes not wrong. Its the site of a superspreader event. Even if the president is getting toward the end of his period of ineffectivity, there was a lot of virus hanging around there. Its not impossible others arent infected. To have them Milling Around, no masks, it is pretty shocking. Do you believe hes cured of the virus after a short period of time . At the end of their illness, if they have severe illness, we know they could be shedding the virus for a longer period of time. At least 15 days. He could still be shedding the virus. The thing that shocks me is we have an administration that had a superspreader event only recently. Was lackadaisical. We have a president who insists we have the mary malone where he might be spreading this to others. Lindsey graham is refusing to take a test to do a debate with his contender on the stage because hes afraid he might be negative. The whole thing is a bid to undermine the country. Is the president fooling himself . Is he feeling great or feeling fantastic because hes on this on steroids and not because of the therapies that hes been taking . Dr. Bedelia and then dr. Wac wachter. I dont know. Theres the onetwo punch where the virus makes the immune system have a maladaptive response, it kicks in, and people do end up getting sichlt as his physician said, i dont think we see him out of the woods until his doctor says hes fully recovered. According to the president if we believe him, hes off his steroids, so it shouldnt account for how theyre feeling. He could crash. When he says i feel 20 years younger, theres nothing about covid that makes you feel 20 years younger. Its probably the steroids. My guess is his doctor ended it a day or two early. Laurie, i want to bring you in. I want to pick up on something dr. Wachter said at the beginning of the conversation. There was a scene where there was a superspreader event, but the virus could be hanging around the white house. Talk about that and how worried should people be that even if the president is no longer shedding the virus, that some of it could still be around . Is that possible . First of all, let me just say what a privilege it is to be with these two tremendous doctors. Bob in particular has been having public grand rounds you can watch online where ucc San Francisco is available for everyone to see. Its a marvel and wonderful thing youre doing. Thank you. One of the things that came through is how crucial its they we dont actually know when the president first got infected. We have widespread speculation that it was at the road garden on september 26th, so we project outward from that day, each course of his events and events at the whouchls but were all running a bit blind because the white house has refused to let the cdc in to do a thorough investigation. Weve not been allowed to have any further details on the other 34 cases reported to fema. And that makes it hard for us to know how does this illustrate the risk level with the Campaign Activities for the next 24, 25 days . That makes it very difficult for those of us who arent in the white house, looking at video images such as youre showing right now, looking at images of the president that he wants released, which we now know he reverses that were not actually seeing the first image. Were perhaps seeing the second or third take, and from all these, trying to read tea leaves. Its almost completely impossible. I want to say one thing about regener regeneron. The president had been receiving such a massive cocktail that its hard for any expert to tease out from afar which element of that cocktail played the crucial role in however well he fells raich now, and what goepg forward without any of the medication the president is likely to experience. Regeneron is a thorough treatment but theyre still trying to promote it. One of the things thats going to be Going Forward i think id like to ask the two physicians aboard. Whats going to be tough for us to understand is has the president s own immune system made any antibodies or are we seeing maeps in h in samples n the blood were drawing. The president says hes immune. Is he immune . Does he have some antibodies that have fought off the virus and protected him . He never jen rayed his own immune response and therefore he could potentially be at risk in these crowd settings. He could potentially be reinfected. Jump in. From what i understand, youre the expert on regeneron, but talk more about the president s therapies and how widely available are the drugs and medications that the president took available to the more than 7 Million People who will now who have now contracted covid19 . First of all, thank you, laurie, for the shoutout. I really appreciate it. Let me clarify one thing, gentlemen. I dont believe people would be getting the virus from the white house in that its sitting around on a table. I think its become clear. I am concerned an chain of transmission that the people we know who have gotten it may have given it to others and they may be Milling Around the white house. Thats the concern. In terms of the mono clonal antibodies. No one knows that theyre not getting a placebo. Take this idea that thats what cured him. Have no idea. It could have been that, the other two medicines he got, or luck. In fact, when he was first diagnosed and given his weight. He had about a 95 chance of getting through this. A 5 chance of dying when first diagnosed. If he had gotten a placebo, he would have been soughting out, placebo, its the miracle cure. Maybe it lowered his mortality rate by a couple. We dont know yet. Its still early in the studies. That drug is not available to you and me. One final point, we should recall that prior cures include hydroxychloroquine, now thought to be demonstrated as ineffective. Cosmo plasma, bleach, and the virus would disappear. We should take this with a grain of sault. Dr. Bedahll bhadelia, i want you to listen to this. Do you remember when he had his last negative test . I dont want to go backward . When is the last time drn. I cant release that. The dom tors want it kept private. I saw the doctors today. Im in great shachlt i took this regeneron. Its phenomenal. You said you dont have that. You dont know or you dont want to say . So we dont have that. I dont personally know. Why is it so important that we know when the prlts last negative test was . Well, jonathan theres clearly a relit tans. Thats a concern because if he was positive earlier, there might have been a longer period of time. Just as the president and others and dr. Wachter has said, we need to make sure we get in contact with everyone else who may not be exposing other people. With that, were going to have to leave it there. Dr. Wachter, dr. Bedelly, and laurie garrett, thanks for coming on the show today. Coming up next, the president s lock em up list. Well be right back. Up list well be right back. Zzzquil pure zzzs all night. Fall asleep. Stay asleep. Look limu someone out there needs help customizing their Car Insurance with liberty mutual, so they only pay for what they need. False alarm. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Youre having one more bite no one more bite kraft. For the win win. Subut when we realized she wasn hebattling sensitive skin, we switched to new tide plus downy free. Its gentle on her skin, and dermatologist recommended. New tide pods plus downy free. Safe for sensitive skin with eczema and psoriasis. Unless bill barr indicts these people, im going to get little dissatisfaction. In one of his many unhinged interviews this week, donald trump roasted his own cabinet officials for being too slow to throw his political rivals in jail. Now answering the call. Weve got the emails. Were getting them out. Weve got all the information out so americans can see it. Are you doing it before the election . Well see. Thats going to be terrible for clintons campaign. Joining us now sistersinlaw, thank you very much for coming on the show today. Our pleasure. Thanks for having me. Good to be with you. Let me play one more sound bite of the president going after his cabinet. Forget whats on it. Irrelevant. Some are highly classified and you go to jail for that. They near the state department. Mike pompeo is not able to get them out, which is sad. Im unhappy with him about that. Barbara, why is the president still relitigating things that actually didnt really happen . Not ohm that, jonathan, as you point out, Hillary Clinton is not on the ballot in 2020. Its relitigating something that happened in 2016. I think hes going back to the greatest hit, reminding people hes not a democrat. Its not so much support for him as it is hatred for the other side. Its completely irrelevant to the issues were facing today. Its playing to the base. Remember, decisions were made. No crimes were committed here. Hillary clinton did do something that was improper by having a server in her home to have emails, but she never committed any crime. She wasnt acting as a spy. She wasnt sharing it with any of our foreign adversaries. Its been such a nonstory. Its been resolved for four years and its a sign of desperation that hes regurjing that. Something that occurred four years ago. You heard what the president said. Hes always tweeting and retweeting. He says, quote, where are all the arrests . Can you imagine if the roles were reversed . Shameful. Joyce, your thoughts. One of the defining hallmarks is that we dont have to worry about the government putting us in jail without due process and without fair play. Dwoep have to worried that well be thrown in prison like we hear about in authoritarian societies because of our political views or social views. Thats the game that trump is changing. Hes turning us into a country where its become legitimate to locking up our political opponents simply because they oppose him. That is a darker sign that. Is a reason to reject this really painful trajectory that we see with the trump administration. And, jill, pick up on this. Im sitting here thinking, how destabilizing is it to have the president of the United States browbeat not only the secretary of state but also the attorney general of the United States into going after his political rivals . Going after political rivals is really a terrible, terrible thing do. As joyce said, its a hallmark that we dont do that. One of the reasons he ees gos after hillary again is he cant go after biden. Hes going to try to relitigate the 2016 election. The department of justice is going to need a real makeover as soon as this election is made over a if biden is elected because people are really in fear of whats going on. Weve had active prosecutors saying theyre getting pressure. You have the person who was number two in the investigation who resigned because of pressure from barr. During watergate, you had nicken having an enemies list. It was wrong then. Its wrong now. Barbara, let me come back to you. The New York Times had a story about the republican inquiry finds no evidence of wrongdoing. This is by biden im sorry. I thought this was about Hillary Clinton. But even still, Hillary Clinton, joe biden, President Trump has been going after both of them for imagined crimes. And as this story goes, an 87page report contains no evidence that he improperly manipulated. All ten witnesses testified neither mr. Biden nor anyone else had altered american policy because of joe bidens son, hunter biden. Thats involving ukraine and Hillary Clinton and other scandals. With the president ial of t flogging these controversies, what does it do to the left of the country . Is the rest of the country even paying attention to what hes doing in this regard . I do. Thats why i think its so haremful. He was trying to get an announcement of an investigation into joe biden because all he wants is a talking point. He knows the American People are too busy to pay aten to the manu s biden has had scandals too. Thats all that President Trump wants is pollute the airway with some scent of it. I think the media has become smarter on how to portray some of these things. In 2016 we saw a lot of headlines. I think this is a game. President trump doesnt care about corruption. President trump is corruption. Barbara, thats some tough talk, and i agree with you. Joyce, theres a story in the New York Times that i think is a real scandal. The headline is the department of justice will allow prosecutors to announce, quote, voter fraud before election day. And it says the Justice Department lawyer in washington said in a memo to prosecutors on friday, they could investigate suspicion of Election Fraud before votes are tabulated. That produced a decadeslong policy. This is more evidence of the corruption of the department of justice, isnt it . Its just like bausrb says. Trump is about grabbing the headlines. He doesnt care about the substance. He and bill barr are trying to build a narrative that the election will be rife with voter fraud. Maybe people will throw their hands in the air and say, im just not going to go vote, especially about covid, if the election isnt fair. The reality is nothing could be furtheren from the truth. In 2016, one in four voted by may. Yet despite all of the searching trump and biden are doing to dig up voter fraud. They evenle not found so. Its nothing more than lies, lies, and more lies. Barr changed the longstanding doj policy thats served us well that keept the same p they anouchsed there had been voterle fraud. This is the sort of narrative that theyre creating. And as barb says, its corruption. Im going to end with you. Your pin is the scales of justice in balance. The narrative that joyce is talking about is, you know, how the Justice Department and President Trump is knocking those scales out of balance. How worry ready you that the scales cant come back into balance . I believe they can come back into balance, and my pin is actually a little bit offkilter because thats whats happening right now. Theres a lot of work to do to build the department of justice. It can be done. I dont feel the same way if President Trump is reelected. The dates he talks about and the tweets, including get my political opponents, that is just a real description of not democracy. Its a description of what authoritarians and dictators do. Its tote a prop gagapropaganda. Jill wine banks, joyce vance, thanks for being on. See the podcast that has everyone on it. After this short break well talk with former cia director john brennan about the domestic terrorists among a new civil war. Thats next. New civil war. Thats next. We made usaa insurance for members like martin. 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Into your best life. Stress less and live more. With stressballs. The unfair money bail system. He, accused of rape. While he, accused of stealing 5. The stanford rapist could afford bail; got out the same day. The Senior Citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. Voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety. Because the size of your wallet shouldnt determine whether or not youre in jail. Vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. Vote yes on prop 25 proposition 16 takes some women make as little as 42 of what a man makes. Voting yes on prop 16 helps us fix that. Its supported by leaders like Kamala Harris and opposed by those who have always opposed equality. We either fall from grace or we rise. Together. Proposition 16 provides equal opportunities, levelling the Playing Field for all of us. Vote yes on prop 16. He said the president is complicit with extremists . Well, anyone who gives safe harbor or encouragement to is complicit ands that precise what he did on the National Stage in the middle of a president ial debate when he said, stand by nap was his message. It wasnt one of rebuke. It was one of rallying cry, and i think thats the dangerous part of this moment. Good morning and welcome back to am joy im jonathan capehart. After a foiled kidnapping attend against her, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer is calling donald trump complicit for his failure to unequivocally condemn White Supremacy and terrorists. Seven men in daaddition to the x previously arrested a part of a plan to attack the Michigan State capitol and instigate a civil war. Part of a group called the wolverine watchmen who also support the bug ooboogaloo move even in the face of a thwarted attack on whitmer, trump couldnt pass up the opportunity to criticize her once more. This time in an interview with sean hannity thursday night. Whitmer today complaining but our Justice Department arrested the people she was arrested by. It was my Justice Department that arrested them, and instead goes and does her little political act and keeps her state closed, although we just won the big case, as you know, to open up michigan, because what shes doing is, is a horrible thing to the people. Joining me now, a congresswoman and msnbc contributor and former u. S. Attorney, and bellfar fellow and author of awe how to catch a russian spy and former fbi special agent. Thank you all very much for being here. Congresswoman, start with you, because you were a bit prescient in all of this. Let me play sound of you questioning attorney general bill barr. On two separate occasions after President Trump tweeted liberate michigan, to subvert stayathome orders to protect the Public Health of people in michigan, protesters swarmed the michigan capitol carrying guns. Some with swastikas, confederate flags and one with a darkhaired doll with a noose around its neck. Are you aware they called for the governor to be lynched, shot and beheaded . No. Youre not aware of that. You was not aware. Give me your reaction. When you heard the news about what federal authorities uncovered in michigan against the governor . Well, jonathan, i want to say to Governor Whitmer im so glad that she and her family are safe, and im grateful to the men and women of the fbi for thwarting this plot. Secondly, it is ridiculous that attorney general bill barr told me that he knew nothing about what was happening at the Michigan State capitol when clearly an investigation was under way, and an investigation like that, of such scale, such magnitude, would not have been i cant imagine how that would have been possible to have happening without his knowledge. So it seems he either lied to me, or he really has never been focused on the business at hand which is, of course, one of the things i went on to question him about. He refuses to Pay Attention to the threat of white sprupremacy and be domestic terrorism yet wasgassing for a black lives matter protesters who were legitimately protesting the death of george floyd at that time. I think that this san issue with this Justice Department. They have refused to do anything about White Supremacy. Why, jonathan . Because the president refused in any way, not just to condemn the white spree supremacist groom g groups, but encouraged them. He defended kyle rittenhouse, a 17yearold, accused of fatally shooting two people during the protests over the Police Shooting of another unarmed black man, jacob blake. He refused to condemn the proud boys and called da candidate for the u. S. House a rising star when she embraces k s qanon. And expand on something the congresswoman just said. Questioning the attorney generals lack of knowledge of an operation as big as the one that went down in michigan. Is it credible that the attorney general of the United States didnt know about that investigation that was happening . No. It would be defying all normal protocols of the Justice Department. Thats a very significant case. Its also a case that would require coordination with the National Security division, and so headquarters would be very involved in a case like that certainly the agents in the field, prosecutors in the field handling operations but getting guidance and certainly providing notice there. Now, in his defense, perhaps he didnt want to reveal they were investigating i was just about to ask you that. Go ahead. And i also advise everyone to always take special note of the precise words that william barr uses. He may have, i think the question involved lynching and beheading. He would say, never heard anything about a lynching or beheading. This was a kidnap be plot to put her on trial. Careful precision of words used. May have been able to justify, i didnt want to disclose we were on to this group, but what i do take exception is President Trump saying it was my Justice Department and my fbi that intercepted this plot and came to the defense of governor whitm whitmer. Its not his. Its americas justice. When he thinks about it as an arm of his to use, of his own tool to use is where President Trumps perspective on Law Enforcement is so warped and a tool to advance his political agenda. Not the case, of course. It is to protect all americans including the governor of our state. Right. In fact, before Governor Whitmer took a hammer to President Trump she spent the bulk, beginning of her comments, thanking Law Enforcement and federal officials for blowing up the plot, but also for protecting her and her family and the state. Doctor, and then navid. Talk more about the president s role. I think the congresswoman who talked the reason bill barr doesnt go, take White Supremacy seriously is because, well, the president doesnt. How vital is it to the Boogaloo Movement and the far right groups to have the president of the United States giving them ral tore rhetorical cover . Doctor . Extremely vital. They see the president as an ally in the white house, an administration that repeatedly denied facts and evidence. It took several drafts of the most recent department of Homeland Security report on the greatest threat to the United States, which is the right Wing Movement to acknowledge that. The language in the draft finally disseminated was watered down. Calling them white supremacist extremists and other labs suggest homegrowns, not necessarily White Supremacists. You probably know, all 50 states have statutes in place that in constitutional provisions, they can be used to control the militias. The fact the administration is not thinking about it or doing that and instead standing up a private army to respond to cities with cynical unrest echoes what was initially a dog whistle, its become a bull horn from the white house and theyre taking every single thing he says. Go to their websites, youll see it repeated. They understand they van ally and friend if not a corroborator in the white house. Doctor, stick with you one moment. Do you think, then, these folks and others like them out there in the country, should they be flat out designated called terrorists . First, they fit the dev definition. Violence or threat of violence to attack a civilian with a political objective. Understand militias a little more. Not the same as excessing defense of property. They operate under authority of the president or the governor. If it doesnt, its just an armed mob. 1893 the United States establish ed those here to eoretically ca the president. Others are illegal and should be treated as such by the authority. Navid, finally bringing you in here, into the conversation. Love your thoughts on all of this, but also the reason why the government was able to expose this plot and bring it to an end is because they were able to infiltrate these groups. How does the federal government do that . How do they get people on the inside to then disrupt, really, almost fatal plots like this . You looked at the parallel. This is counterterrorism. Maybe these groups werent standing by afterall. No al qaeda but yallqaeda. Looking to takal governor of one of our states. Look at it nos just as the 3 , the proud boys, individual groups or a movement. Frankly a movement not just here to disrupt the election but will stay after the election and its dangerous. It seeks to overthrow White Nationalism very clearly, jonathan, a movement that seeks to establish a white state. Very different from White Supremacy, like the kkk see anyone in white as subhuman. This is is a different type of movement. We have to start taking this serious aand seeing that these groups are connected just as we would in terrorism. Post9 11 we created the aumf, authority to use military force. Weve droern droned people for. Part of this is prioritizing these groups for infiltration, work three years undercovkov ec into these groups and report back. The president flat out calls these people in action. You need someone to prioritize much as bill barr is not, prioritize these groups for Law Enforcement. We have to go after them. There are many, many, many tools that can be used to make sure that these plots dont happen. Look, the one thing weve learned, jonathan, we understand this, Law Enforcement has to be right 100 of the tilme. We cant afford one misstep. Thank goodness they were able to detect this and be stop it, Law Enforcement. What happens the next time jl we have to be there and successful 100 of the time. To do that you need leadership to designate it and prioritize it as something Law Enforcement goes after. Congressman, to navids point. No matter who wins this election in 20some odd days, these far right groups are still going to be out there and especially if former Vice President joe biden does indeed become the next president of the United States. He is going to have to deal with them. How confident are you that a biden administration, or a posttrump america, will be able to get these right wing folks under control . Theyve been stoked by the president for three and a half years, given rhetorical cover and given fuel and energy. Th theyre going to be amped up if hes no longer president of the United States . Thats right. Its a continuing serious threat. No doubt in my mind that a President Biden and Vice President harris would absolutely take this seriously. Would do everything in their power to empower the agencies of the federal government to address this serious threat. I mean, Christopher Wray testified, fbi director Christopher Wray, testified before the house in september, and said at that time that White Supremacy was the number one threat to the country. Domestic terrorists. A threat to the country. We see it again in this report that was just released by the department of Homeland Security, and yet jonathan, if i were to get a dollar for every time that seattle or portland was razed or this term antifa, which is not it is not a comparable term in the least on so many levels. You know, i would be a very rich woman. So the reality is, that it will take a lot of work to fight back against the momentum that these right wing, white supremacist groups, white nationalists, to navids point. Its a very point poinimportant. Theres a real goal here and well welcome a few people from qanon into the u. S. House of representatives and those people still have not been condemned or distanced from the Republican Party. This is not something thats going away quickly. No question in my mind with the President Biden we will at least start to really address this, and take it on, and have the leadership from the white house that says, this is absolutely not appropriate, and dangerous to our democracy. The congresswoman said something i think is really important. She said, basically, antifa. Theres nothing comparable between antifa and the far right groups that are armed to the teeth and now a plots been foiled. First, barbara, for the people who are watching, safe to say that a lot of folks watching have family members who probably hurl the term antifa in their faces as a way of saying, both sides are at fault here. Give those folks the language they need to push back on this notion that antifa is somehow the lefts equivalent to the people who were just arrested for plotting to assassinate the governor of michigan. I think it all comes down, jonathan, not to believes but contact. Who is using violence to intimidate a government . Thats the crime you focus on. People have all kinds of political views whether far right or far left. Law enforcement is concerned about those who use acts of violence and thats what were seeing with this group that has been arrested in michigan. Plotting to kidnap the governor. That goes way beyond speaking out and protesting. Thats the kind of contact that matters and the concern i think about this movement. That they are talking about gathering guns, gathering womenewome weapons, fighting back from communities they consider to be governmentss oppression. Ten seconds each . Barbaras right. Talking about vernacular also. Antifa, a war on terrorism. Cant have a war on strategy. We know the wolverine militia is an organization and atari a militia. Organizations that can be targeted, investigated and they are. The notion of antifa just one that plays into the president s playbook and nonsensical as director wray testified to saying antifa is not a terrorist organization, not an organization its an ideology. And navid . When the president comes out says he condemns all extremism hes condemning nothing. If he doesnt specifically come out and go after this group hes ekwiv equivocating and have more than a dog whistle. Its a call to arms. Thank you very much for being on the show this morning. And a quick programming note, i believe. We had been talking about the fact that former cia director john brennan would be on the show. He hadthe a scheduling issut well have this important discussion soon. Unfortunately, he wouldnt be able to make it today. Hope to connect with him in the future. Coming up, Kamala Harris hits trump where it hurts. Stick around for this one. Thats after this break. Id call my grandfather as a result of the research that ive started to do on ancestry. Having ancestry to fill in the gaps with documents, with photographs, connecting in real time means that were having conversations that are richer. I have now a closer relationship with my grandfather. I cant think of a better gift to give to my daughter and the generations that come after her. Bring your Family History to life like never before. Get started for free at ancestry. Com this is about a pattern of Donald Trumps where he has referred to our men who are serving in our military as suckers and losers. Donald trump who went to Arlington Cemetery and stood above the graves of our Fallen Heroes, and said, whats in it for them . Because, of course, you know, he only thinks about whats in it for him. Senator Kamala Harris must have gotten under trumps very thin skin at the Vice President ial debate on wednesday. After she outlined his consistent belittling of our armed forces he uploaded this rambling video to his twitter account the next day. Weve spent 2. 5 trillion over the term in office, my term, thats over three yav yan half year es. Took over a depleted military. Broken quip, even the army, brand new uniforms with the belt. Everybody wanteded belt. That same morning on fox business the commander in chief suggested that gold star families who have lost a loved one serving in the military cov diagnosis after he invited them to a maskless indoor reception its a the white house. A met with gold star families. I didnt want to cancel that. They come within an inch of my face at times, want to hug me and kiss me and they do, and frankly, im not telling them to back up. Im not going it. Joining me now is paul rykoff, iraq war veteran and host of the angry americans podcast. Paul, thank you very much for being here. Im just going to let you have at it. Your response, at least to that last bit that we heard of what the president had to say about gold star families. Well, i say it all the time. It youre not angry youre not paying attention. Seems every week he finds a new reason to make america angry, insulted, outraged. When it comes to our military this is a very, very special, unique, populist issue when it comes to politics, jonathan. I think he knows this hurts him. Anytime he hears suckers and losers, hears stories about the gold star families it kind of hits hi freak out button. His mayhem, lack of integrity, loyalty, lack of respect for anything is on display in no more vivid form than what were talking about, our military. Talking about belts. Saying that gold star families gave him covid . I mean, this cuts to the core of the terrible human being that he is, and its revealed around issues of our military, our National Defense and our security more than maybe anything else about his character. You know, paul, when the atlantic article came out. We got the language, suckers and losers, it was a bombshell. But the fact that my paper, the New York Times, other papers and other news organizations, were able to corroborate it like that, told you just how true this was. But one thing i want to know from you, as a veteran and the community that you are a part of, what does it say . What does this news say to veterans . The president talk as good game about standing with the armed forces. But do the armed forces, veterans, current enlistees do they feel like the president of the United States . The commander in chief, that he actually stands with them . Well, theyre not a monolith. Starting point. Support among that Community Just like any other community in america for the most part continues to drop. Its not just his words. Words matter but its his behavior and policies. He continues to attack john mccain. He took money away from the pentagon and sent it down to his wall project. Pulled troops out of jgermany there to depend most part against russia and serve as strategic pad. Right before the debate tweeted hed pull everybody out of afghanistan by christmas. The pentagon didnt even know its coming. Constant chaos, lack of coordination, integrity, lack of discipline. That should bother everybody most. Lack of discipline. It can always get worse. If you think it can, remember, this is the man with control of our nukes. If it doesnt outrage you, deeply concern you how much can happen between now and the election and into january youre really not paying attention. The stakes can always get higher and worse. Thats why our enemies celebrate. Every day hes commander in chief, enemies love it. Putin loves it, kim jongun loves it. Al qaeda couldnt have asked for a better relationship happen that our joint chiefs of staff quarantining because they may have been exposeds to covid thanks to the president s leadership. Your point about the military not being a monolith. 37 say donald trump, 2 skipped it. And since you mentioned the late senator john mccain. Look what cindy mccain, his widow had to say in a political ad calling for honoring our troops. Have a watch. My husband knew joe biden a long time. They traveled thousands of miles together visiting troops overseas, and they developed the kind of friendship you dont see too often. Now more than ever we need a president who will put service before self. A president who will lead with courage and compassion. Not ego. A president who will respect the sacrifices made by our Service Members and their families. A president who will honor our Fallen Heroes and a president who will bring out the best in us, not the worst. Now, paul, i point out that that ad we just showed just came out this morning. So how important is it that cindy mccain, a republican, her late husband was the 2008 republican president ial nominee, but the fact shes out there with a campaign ad in support of the democratic president ial nominee, joe biden, says something. How important is that endorsement . I think its important. Its not just moving people in the military and veterans. Its moving people who care about the military and veterans. Those can be people, maybe still some undecided folks especially pennsylvania, florida, arizona. You might be able to move people with a powerful ad from cindy mccain. Arizona in play. Cindy mccain could move the electorate in that state. Its significant. I dont think theres anymore winning populist issue for democrats than this, losers and suckers, veterans, gold star families, smart to rav it it up. Kamala harris smart to go on the attack and joe biden in good position to do the same because he son actually went to iraq. Beau biden served in iraq while trumps kids were back home getting rich. A cleavage smarter to expose and hammer and open up, much bigger than about the election. Thats the core here. Jonathan, that no matter who wins well have a really volatile situation in this country and need someone we can trust and who understands and responsibly uses our military and the National Defense of this country. Paul rykoff, great to see you. Thank you for coming on the show this morning, you, ph. You, too, my friend. Flat out giving up on democracy. How do i register to vote . Hmm . Hmm . Hmm . woman on porch vo can we vote by mail here . grandma vo youll be safe, right . daughter vo yes four girls vo the polls voted grandma vo go out and vote its so important man at poll vo woo grandma vo its the most important thing you can do every weekend between now and election day my friend and colleague ali velshi is covering the country speaking to voters in crucial swing states. Ali, where are you going next . Tomorrow i continue my velshi across america tour in detroit, three days after 13 men were plotting to kidnap the governor gretchen whitmer. Speaking with the Lieutenant Governor garland hillcrist saying the president s facial to condemn White Supremacists and these private militias makes hicks complicit in that foiled attack, and speak with voters about trumps call to open up the state as covid cases are surging across michigan and neighboring nats across the midwest. Jonathan . A lot going on. Thank you for that update. Tune in tomorrow at 8 00 a. M. Eastern time for velshi across america, live from michigan. Coming up, this election, democracy itself, hangs in the balance. Stay with us. Ur j this games boring. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Ill be eating chicken tikka masala with garlic naan. [doorbell chimes] cheers. I win again, patrick. Thats siiir patrick. Oooooow. Sir. If Vice President is declared winner and President Trump refuses to accept a peaceful transfer of power, what would be your role and responsibility as Vice President . What would you personally do . When you talk about accepting the outcome of the election, i must tell you. Senator, your party spent the last three and a half years trying to overturn the results of the last election. I think were going win this election and President Trump and i are fighting every day in courthouses to prevent joe biden and Kamala Harris from changing the rules creating a universal mailin voting creating massive voter fraud. Just 24 days before the election the president and now the Vice President refused to explicitly say they will accept results of the election and commit to a peaceful transfer of power. Is this americas vision for democracy . Joining me to make sense of it is Stewart Stephens Senior Adviser for the Lincoln Project a author of it was all a lie. Thank you for coming on this morning. The reason why i wanted you on the show is, one, because of that clip we showed from the debate, but the second reezing reason is this tweet from yew taut senator mike lee, were not a democracy. Followed by, democracy isnt the objective. Liberty, peace and prosperity, misspelled are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that. What in the i cant curse on tv. Whats going on . I tweeted in response to that. That basically is, sums up the position of the communist party and the soviet union for 75 years. You dont need democracy. To help the people. I really whats happening now in the Republican Party, when youre in the middle of something its always difficult to really understand it, but it is a complete moral collapse of a party unlike anything weve seen, i think in american history. Strangely, i think the only thing you can compare it to is the collapse of the communist party in the soviet union where what people said the party was for and what the party was for was just so disparate. I mean, i cant believe. I joined a party with Ronald Reagan and now we have a party where they refuse to accept the outcome of the election . You have the Vice President an hour and a half to denounce the proud boys. Never did it. You have a senior senator from utah who is coming out against democracy. Its extraordinary. Its just amazing collapsing of a party. One of the things you didnt mention is also the fact that you have the president of the United States whos demanding and seemingly commanding his attorney general and also his secretary of state to go after his political enemies . Yeah. Look, donald trump has never understood what it is to be an america. Hes sort of a classic example as is rupert murdoch, unassimilated immigrant. Never adopts american values. Hes a gangster, a thug. Would you be surprised in tony is a pre pr soprano was saying this . No. Thats donald trump. In our society parties have to form a certain Circuit Breaker function. Stand for something other than election. The Republican Party completely failed on this and continues to fail on it, and i think donald trump knows if theres a crisis postelection, he can count on barr to be his righthand man and the Republican Party to go along with whatever he wants to do. And a tweet from congressman lee of utah. Popped into my in box last night, headline, were coming guns loaded, packed, to confirm barrett, judge amy coney barrett, to the court said senator hydesmith . Im a seventh generation mississippian and so glad that theres newspapers, news Media Outlets like that still in mississippi. Its outrageous. Smith incredible disappointment as a senator. I dont think ten people could pick her out of a lineup including senators. Senators, governors and others in mississippi i am allin for espy and hope people support him in mississippi. You end up with a plot to capture, kill, a michigan governor. Its, words have cons confession consequences. We said words can help bring down the soviet union, bring down the berlin wall and now sort of act like, well, words dont matter. They do matter. They do matter. And less than 30 seconds left. Let me get your thoughts quickly on the president holding a 2,000 invitee rally at the white house, speaking from the truman balcony . Yeah. Look, people ought to vote in this election like their life depends on it, because it may very well. A president in complete denial, and left to his own devices, he will continue to fail on covid, and with deadly results. Its really your own life thats on the ballot. Always great to see you. Thank you very much for coming on the show today. Before we go to break, i want to play this new ad from the Joe Biden Campaign starring some of the mayors who have endorsed him. Black women have always been on the front lines for social justice. Its what we do. We organize. Make phone calls and, yes run for office. All while being stand up. Systemic racism. Fight for health care. And justice for. All our citizens. And use our power. Our right. Our responsibility. Plaque women, lets vote. Vote. For joe biden and Kamala Harris. All your turn, fellas. Okay. Okay. We got this. All fellas. Brothers, weve heard our sisters, mothers, wives and daughters cry out for equality. Across the country. Now its our turn. Our responsibility to take our power back. Black women vote more than black men. Time we change that. Dont give your power away. Every single vote counts in this election. Show up. Show out. And vote. All for joe biden and Kamala Harris. Wow. All while being fly. That was fantastic. Another former mayor on team biden joins me here tomorrow. Pete buttigieg on am joy. Up next, telling me how others are getting out to vote. Others are getting out to vote. This is the feeling of total protection now that we protect your identity, and mobile phone, as well as auto home and life youve never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today for skin as alive as you are. Dont settle for silver gold bond champion your skin this november 3rd, everything is at stake. We are surrounded by chaos. We are being governed by selfish who peddle misinformation. Jesus, honey, too much too much . Yeah. Its all of this fear and scary aaaeh. Isnt that what it is . Yeah, but thats part of the problem, right . Not only putting out good videos to get out the vote, also you can help by volunteering, from home. In the final weeks before the election. Joining me now are married actors and activists Mandy Patinkin and katherine groady. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you. Thanks for having us, jonathan. Good to be here. Point out before i forget, because i forget things. That video you showed a little clip of was made by ewen write and our son gideon groady patinkin, wrote it, directed it together and just want everybody to know theyre a part of our effort. Terrific. Terrific. So why make these i love your videos. I love it. Especially that last one, because, ms. Groady, you flip out. It evidently speaks to how a lot of people feel right now. Right. So why jump in to this effort in this way . Why jump into it . I guess because sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead. Because the worlds on fire. Our countrys on fire. Democracy is at stake. Weve never been in a more crisis situation. Covid19s taken 212,000 lives already, and god knows how many more it will take. We have a person who is completely against the truth, doesnt denounce White Supremacists, doesnt care about our country, everything we standard for. We cannot let this rest, and our anxiety level is peaking, and how we calm it down is to take action with working with swing left and last weekends dot org, anyone can go to those websites. Sorry. My son corrected me, the last weekend dot org. Saturday, week from today, 17th, last day to sign up. If everybody just works three hours in these next three weeks you cant imagine the difference it will make. Go ahead, kathryn. Oh did their shot freeze up . Can we get them back . All right. Well, as we try to get their signal back up, because kathryn groady was about to add on to what her husband Mandy Patinkin was saying about their effort to volunteer to get people to vote, hopefully should we get them back or go to break . Tell me what to do, control room. Ah here they are. Yes, we can see you. My fault. We might be a little smaller. Say what you were saying. Yes. Go ahead, kathryn. This is important. Why i do it . Why i raised sons to be citizens, good participating citizens. My dad was a first generation immigrant landed on dday on no normandy dawe he believed in democracy and every citizen had a responsibility to vote. Thats why im doing this. I really care about democracy and im shocked to see a senator like mike lee not care it absolutely. And can i also say, hold on. Take this down a little bit so you dont see so much of our ceiling. The other thing is i just lost the level of anxiety that we all are sharing, every tweet, every moment that comes out, every live lost, et cetera, et cetera. How do we deal with that anxiety . How do we get through the day . Were alive and dont want to miss a single minute of our lives. This last action dot org, writing letters, my son gideon helped me get on a phone bank and do a phone bank system pap lady in georgia named wendy. All the software. Amazing whats set up. I said, are you registered . Yes, i think so. Can i check for you . I checked. She actually had the wrong address. If you didnt have the right address on your registration, your vote wouldnt count. She stayed with me on the phone for about a half hour. I went through all the bells and whistles. She was so polite and chind akii saved her vote. I cannot tell you, cannot put it into words how thrilling for me to save one vote, and her kindness, generosity, sensitivity and her caring for our country and our democracy and her vote. It mattered to her and it made me high as a kite i had three people hang up on me after that, but it didnt matter. I was about to ask. How has reaction been to the people youre calling . Kathryn, what are you hearing from people . People are, you know, i think partly because people are so isolated in this horrible covid moment, that theyre a little more open getting calls from strangers. You sort of feel, jonathan, like you are part of a community. And we can disagree about policies. We can disagree that, how to fix all thats wrong here, but we need to have a democracy in order to fix things, and i think all the volunteers and phone banking and letter writing and fundraisers is making people reassured that there are more people that understand democracy, sets the stage for all kinds of voices to have reasonable, civil conversations with each other, and its a good thing. It makes people feel good. My best friend was part of my fathers group, a man named mark kerrington who started msnbc. The building in jersey named after him and stayed alive until his last dieing breath and took that strength to sit up in his bed and waited for us to come there and he looked at us a in the eye and said to these two crazy folk hes he loved, he sai have fun. In the middle of this concerning time, and particularly in our country it is important to follow marks words and have fun. And you can do it. We have things i wanted to read it to you so i dont get it wrong. Last weekend, the last weekend at 8 00 p. M. On i forget the on tuesday, the 17th at 8 00 having a big launch. Stacey abrams will be there. Well be there. Element three, control room. And what . Go ahead. Keep talking, mandy. We have that info. Other fun things that will click in, if you go to last weekend, the laughed last weekend dot org, jamie lee curtis. Cast of american idiots and ways to have fun saving your lives, saving your grandchildrens future, saving your countrys democracy. Uhhuh. It can be fun. Its not going to be fun without democracy. Well, thats for for sure. And we have go on. Go on. Mandy, quick. Mandy and kathryn. Two things. One, quickly, your reaction to whats going to happen today on the truman balcony, the president speaking from the balcony to 2,000 people . Can i tell you something, i dont give a shit im sorry. You cant say that. Hold on. I dont give a damn. I just did it. I dont give a damn what trump says on the truman balcony today or any other day, because he doesnt speak the truth and this day for me is a glorious what are you going to say . Excuse me, jonathan its irresponsible its spreading covid irresponsible. Go ahead. Stop listening to donald trump. Stop listening and get out the vote. Tell your friends to vote. And dont give up until everyone you know votes. Mandy patinkin, kathryn groady, thank you both so very much for being on the show today. We got to go. Mandy, got to go. Really sorry. Got to go. Okay. Ten morn seconds, but i dont get t. And Stacey Abrams and tuesday night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Im really sorry, audience, for the salty language, the bad language there that you heard in that, in that segment. Thats our show for today. More am joy tomorrow at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. For now, stay tuned for my friend alex witt. Her guests will include former trump attorney Michael Cohen. Who is usaa made for . Its made for this guy a veteran who honorably served and its made for her shes serving now we made it for all branches and all ranks whether they served one tour or made a career of it. We also made usaa for military spouses and their kids usaa is easy to work with and can save you money on auto, home and renters insurance. Become a member today. Get an insurance quote at usaa. Com quote usaa. What youre made of were made for get an insurance quote at usaa. Com quote vicks vapopatch. Easy to wear with soothing vicks vapors for her, for you, for the whole family. Trusted soothing vapors, from vicks when was the last time your property tawhat . L went down . Never. Are you kidding me . For years, the residential burden has gone up. While the corporate burden has gone down. Prop 15 reverses that. It closes corporate loopholes and invests in schools, small business, and firefighters. And when the big corporations pay more, your tax bill goes down. Thats right. A savings of a hundred twentyone dollars a year for the average home. Give homeowners a break. Vote yes on 15. Taking california for a ride. Companies like uber, lyft, doordash. Breaking state employment laws for years. Now these multibilliondollar companies wrote deceptive prop 22 to buy themselves a new law. To deny drivers the rights they deserve. No sick leave. No workers comp. No unemployment benefits. Vote no on the deceptive uber, lyft, doordash prop 22. One ride california doesnt want to take. Good day earn from msnbc World Headquarters here in new york. High noon just about in the east. Welcome to weekends with lx. T alex witt. The president resuming inperson appearances. What about his covid test results . Joe biden on the road weighing in on trumps decision. Good luck. Make sure i wouldnt show up unless you had a mask and kept your distance. What is the matter with this guy . And Michael Cohen joins me to talk about the final weeks of the 2020 election and whether the president really wants to win. Plus what is it about the trumps that drive so many people away . But we begin this hour at the white house where in just two hours the president will hold his first inperson event since being diagnosed with coronavirus and this jut five days after leaving the hospital. The New York Times reporting hundreds of supporters are expected to attend. What is essentially a campaign rally, this from the white house balcony. Far as we and the public know, the president is stid ll infect with the virus, all amid new fallout from the rose garden ceremony just two weeks ago today nearly a u. S. Issen who atte atte attended the eve