Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20200920

Be a woman. Ill be making my choice soon and when the choice is made im be ill be sending it over to mitch in the senate and theyll do what they have to do. I think well have a very popular choice, whoever it may be. I think the choice will be next week. Yes i do. Meanwhile, senator Lindsey Graham whose words mean nothing reversed course and tweeted that he will in fact support trump in any effort to fill the Supreme Court vacancy. Democrats are mobilizing for an unprecedented fight over ginsburgs seat. In the last 48 hours, act blue a fundraising platform for democrats raised a Record Number of 91 million and it can help galvanize more to vote for joe biden. According to thank you nbc news wall street journal conducted before Justice Ginsburgs death, biden is leading trump by eight points well outside the margin of error, but if elected can biden keep the promises. If i lose to him ill never speak to you again. Im joe biden, and i approve this message. Joining me is Donna Edwards of maryland. Michael steele, former rnc chair and Senior Adviser at the lincoln project. Alexi mcca Alexi Mccammond and joe madison. And former republican congresswoman Susan Molinari of new york. Thank you all very much for being here. Before we get started, i just want to play a clip of something. Im just going to be flat out and say it, something i said about a little more than 24 hours ago. Lets play it. Im not surprised by Mitch Mcconnell. I will not be surprised by what senator Lindsey Graham will do in the future. He is the chair of the Senate Judiciary committee. I think he played at the beginning of the show or you have a clip of him telling Jeffrey Goldberg of the atlantic that he will not entertain a Supreme Court justice if it comes in an Election Year and he said, keep the tape. Weve got the tape. And hes gonna go he is going to go against his word. I guarantee you he will do that. Yep. I guarantee it. Michael steele, were you surprised by what senator graham did . No. I didnt believe it when he said it. Youre a better man than i am. Everyone is taking the people at their word. There was no way in hell that a Supreme Court nomination opens up, it could open up the day before the election and donald trump and Lindsey Graham and everyone would be all on it. Look, first, trump loves this. It puts him in the center stage again for as long as this process is going to be going on. And so hes getting the juice from it. He gets to get out there and sort of dangle i have a woman i want to put out. Well do it. He loves it. Mitch mcconnell may be a little off put about the possibility of losing the senate, but the aphrodisiac of packing the conservative court is much more enticing. You have seen him do it, consistently, over and over again. And so folks who are now stuck on this, you know, hypocrisy point that republicans are being you know, hypocrites, hello, this this isnt about hypocrisy. This is about power. Right. And the democrats after all this time still get sucked into the corner where they are powerless. And theres nothing they can do about this between now and when its done. Nothing they can do so why not . Chairman, i see everyones head nodding in agreement but i want to go to Susan Molinari to get your reaction to senator grahams, you know, 180 pivot and to get your reaction to this tweet from maine senator Susan Collins. She sent out a tweet yesterday that says in part, in fairness to the American People, who will either be reelecting the president or selecting a new one, the decision on a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court should be made by the president elected on november 3rd. So sayeth Susan Collins of maine. Susan molinari of new york . And we know that the chairman said it all. We know that lisa murkowski, senator murkowski from alaska, is probably going the same way but i dont anticipate theres going to be the other two senators, republicans, that are going to need to stop this process. The chairman is correct. This is one of the most important things that the senate sees as their prerogative and also correct that this changes the subject from coronavirus for the president of the United States and so its kind of a winwin for the president. And therefore, i think lindsey and the rest of the Republican Party are going to go along and get this done. Congresswoman Donna Edwards, let me have you weigh in on your former colleagues there on the hill. What can i say to Michael Steeles comments . Word. Let me be clear, that its not a surprise at all that these republicans have gone back on their word. Its what we get from the president. Its what we expect from them and the surprise would be if a couple of additional republicans stood up on principle and honored the decision that they made back in 2015. But i dont expect that thats going to happen. I do think that democrats do still have some tools with which they can try to leverage Public Opinion and, you know, that may be the extent of it. But i think its really important to try to hold the feet to the fire of those republican senators who are in states where its on the line. Cory gardner, you know, in South Carolina obviously Jamie Harrison is putting up a great fight there and is within, you know, striking distance of unseating Lindsey Graham. And so and these are threats out there to Mitch Mcconnells ultimate quest which is not just packing the courts, but maintaining power as majority leader in the United States senate. And that is on the line. You know, when it comes to the race between senator graham and Jamie Harrison his democratic challenger, it was like watching harrison is watching the cheetah chase the impala. He is getting really close to your point, congressman edwards that the threats can make against republicans to try to keep them from seeing what theyll going to do, senator minority leader Chuck Schumer sent out a message yesterday declaring, you know, let me be clear. If leader mcconnell and Senate Republicans move forward with this, then nothing is off the table for next year. Nothing is off the table. Alexi, what could be some of those things that could be on the table that the democrats could use to hold republicans accountable . Well, good morning to all of you and thank you for having me, jonathan. I mean, the democrats kind of had their hands tied because they cant block this thing from happening or moving forward. They can apply a lot of pressure and we will expect that on the vulnerable senators up for reelection. But all they can do is plan for a retaliation if they win the white house and the senate come november. And so youre hearing democrats on the hill tweeting publicly, talking privately about things that were kind of contentious during the primary like packing the courts and expanding the number of justices on the court so they can have more liberal justices on there. That was a divide between the democrats in the primary and now the democrats are really pushing for that and thats something theyd do if and when biden won the presidency. So thats something we can certainly look for them to do. The other thing we have heard folks talk about most notably former president obama is ending the filibuster rule. He said that is a jim crow relic which is what he called it at john lewis funeral. But hasnt given them the power to do that, thats two things we can see them moving forward on. This idea of adding justices to the Supreme Court might be sort of catnip for the Democratic Party faithful because if the president does get another seat, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court will go will become 63. You are a man of the people because youre talking to the people every day. I dont know if you have had a chance to hear from your listeners but what give us your sense of where things are in the wake of the death of Justice Ginsburg and what it means for democrats going forward. Well, i would first say, jonathan, and to this outstanding panel, you guys did not leave any meat on the bone. But i havent heard because you know, it always happens to me. Something like this happens on a friday after im off the air. I will certainly be hearing on monday but i can almost anticipate because i know the audience, lets just and i agree with michael about this. Democrats do not need to go on the defensive on this. The reality is you do what Chuck Schumer did. You throw the words of mcconnell, you throw it back at his face and this is up to the people of kentucky. Look, hes up for reelection. He either is a man of his word or hes not a man of his word. And that goes to the same thing for Lindsey Graham. They either are men of their word or theyre not and if theyre not, they dont need to go back to the United States senate. So the bottom line is this is up firsthand to the people of kentucky and South Carolina. And then, youre absolutely right. 23 senators are up for reelection. Republican senators if im not mistaken and we can keep the pressure on them. See, this is where you play offense. This is where you go after them and to see which of them are willing to fall on the sword. The other thing i would add to this discussion is lets understand that there could very well be an america a lame duck selection of the United States Supreme Court justice. In other words, you could flip the senate and mcconnell and could be out and graham could be out. Between november and january 20th, they could actually confirm a Supreme Court justice. And what does that mean to the United States Supreme Court . And when schumer says everything is on the table, i think i heard in the previous show can you imagine that brown versus board of education is not considered settled law . This is ridiculous. In other words these folk will take us back to the 1950s and thats where the democrats should be pushing it home to get out every voter between now and the 3rd of november. Susan molinari, as joe madison was just talking about, these republicans if theyre men of their word and they said one thing and are they going to do another, you know, do those republicans even care . The men or the women of their word. Do they even care what they said in 2016 as it pertains to the situation were in right now . I think i just want to be fair because i think im going to say, no, they dont. I dont think the democrats would do anything that much different. I think if we play back the impeachment of President Trump, it was the role reversal with the republicans and the democrats and nobody had a problem saying well i said that then but now im saying the exact opposite thing. So, no, this is high stakes and joes right. This could happen in the lame duck no matter what the end of the election is. There could be some changes with mark kelly is seated and somebody who lost the election doesnt feel the pressure and i dont see this changing in any way, shape or form. We can talk about this, going back to all of the conversations well have any time we take our foot off the gas of talking about and warning the now over 200,000 people who have died of coronavirus, stop talking about, you know, all of the other things facing our country because of this president. Its a good day for President Trump and so this just plays to a conversation that he can have about what he wants go ahead. I was going to say you made a very good point, because trump loves this. He doesnt have to talk about the pandemic. Correct. You know . Thats what americans were thinking about and worrying about and grading him on. Now he can push that aside and deal with the Supreme Court. Yes. Right. Hell have a whole week talking about who he might appoint. Hes going to pressure Vice President biden to talk about who he would appoint if he was in that situation. He gets a little bit of control of the discussion. And this is great because go ahead, congressman edwards. Who was that . Was that alexi . Go ahead. Sorry. I cant see. No, no. Congresswoman, you go, you go. With i wanted to add to this, i think its really important to know that i think the way that americans feel about how the president has handled the pandemic is pretty much baked in. I dont think theres anything that trump or anyone else can do thats going to undo that. With over 200,000 dead, and more getting ill every single day and the president mishandling this and lying about it to the American People. Im really convinced that when voters go to the polls they have factored this in which is why things are becoming so locked in. They factored in that the president has lied to them and mishandled this pandemic. Thats a great point. Whos who is that now . That was Susan Molinari. Go ahead. That was all i had to say. I hope shes right. I think what we have to do is talk about the you know, well have to play this game for a while. We have to bring it back to coronavirus out of respect for the people who are dying, we have to bring it back to the fact that, you know, the fbi director is saying that russia is interfering in our elections right now and the president doesnt want to deal with that. And talk about the repercussions of whats on the line with the change on the Supreme Court. Alexi . Im like a kid waiting raise your hand, alexi. I see you. Go ahead. I spoke with joe bidens campaign earlier this morning and theyll use the vacancy to bring the conversation back to health care and why its important for the Affordable Care act moving forward. A week after the election is supposed to be that court case that the Supreme Court administration tried to strike down the aca for those living with preexisting conditions and the coronavirus is making people think about the health care and the leadership on health care in this country. While trump wants to change the conversation to who hell appoint, biden will hold his feet to the fire on whats going on with the Affordable Care act and what the Supreme Court means for the future of health care and again while theyre seeing folks dying at alarming rates because of the health care crisis. Chairman steele, this is the longest you have not spoken on television in i dont know how long. So i dont have a question for you. Just go. During the democratic primary, i asked a very direct and straightforward question of the Democratic Party. Do you want to be woke or do you want to win . So that meant think through who you want to be your nominee. And given everything that has occurred and that is now in front of you, the question i have for the democrats are you built for this . Are you ready to do what you need to do between now and january 20th . Because this isnt just about november 3rd. As joe pointed out, as susan pointed out, this is about a process that will unfold between now and when the next president puts his hand on the bible and takes the oath. So are you built for this because if youre not ready to play this, i have been saying it from the very beginning this is an acsymmetrical game we are in. Stop treating President Trump as if hes president of the United States, he is playing one on tv. His action speak to that. If youre not ready to engage against mcconnell, against Lindsey Graham let me tell you what happens. Graham and mcconnell come back to the senate. Donald trump goes back to the white house. Its game, set, match, baby. Theres no stopping anything. So if youre not if youre not built to do what you need to do between now and january 20th, then stand down and let someone else step in. Because theres too much on the line. So michael, you just said, are you built for this and why youre saying that i find very interesting because you took part in a role play exercise that was done what about a month or two ago where you and a Bipartisan Group of people sort of war gamed what could happen from election day through transition. Yes. Yes. What were some of and you were clearly on the republicans side so what did you do to jack things up . It was a little bit of what we see playing out now. It was how you respond to what the Trump Administration does. So if trump decides on the night of november 3rd to come out when the polls are barely closed and announces hes the winner and that, you know, the rest the rest of the count is a fraudulent effort to deny him the white house, what do you do . If trump comes out during the process and takes steps to impose some form of martial law to intimidate those at the voting stations what are ongoing going to do . You have 45 days as an exercise of war gaming. How do you strategically respond . And so now youve got this new this new dice thats been thrown. You have a Supreme Court seat thats open. You have got graham who sort of flipflopp flipflopped. I dont know why people were surprised at that, the dude is working with trump. So you know all of a sudden everyone is running around going oh, my god. No, settle on the mission in front of you. What is your next play, what are you prepared to do and those are the things we were kind of looking at. On our task force to look at the judiciary, legislatively, the congress as well as, you know, the states. The secretaries of states and the roles they play and get the vote out and theres a lot of pieces here and the Democratic Party has to be built for this. You cant go through this cycle like in 2000 and not understand what the clock is telling you. Not understand what the politics are telling you. Right. Joe, let me bring you in here. Because from what youre hearing from your listeners, to Michael Steeles point, do you think the Democratic Party and democratic voters are built for this . Im trying to figure out what michael was really saying. You know, im trying to be an optimist and say, yes, they are. But i dont know if i can if i can its not up to me to answer that. Look, im one of these people who recognize that overnight i have been overnight can be a lifetime in a political campaign. And youve got to and i think thats what he means. Youve got to be prepared, not so much to always respond to what donald trump says. Right. I mean, thats the problem. You know . Im an old football player. Look, we didnt worry about so much whether the defense what was going to do you score points primarily on the offense. Trump is clever and every morning i wake up, what did donald trump say . The heck with what donald trump said. I think thats what michael is trying to say. Its quit trying to figure out a crazy man, a man who george will said to me on my show and i never thought id agree with anything george will says. You know, george said i just want him out of public life. Thats all. I want him im going to vote for a democrat. And if george will can say im going to vote for a democrat, i mean, then, you know, the reality we should wake up and see the light and keep in mind now, remember, weve got the debates coming up. And i think thats what michael is also trying to say. Biden and the democrats have to be prepared not to sit up there and respond to every lie that trumps going to tell on that debate stage. Dont fall, dont go down that rabbit hole. Real quick yeah. Thats what i think, you know . Congressman Donna Edwards, i want to give you the last word is your party built for this . Well, thank goodness, yes, i think the Democratic Party and democrats are built for this moment and the reason that i say that i cant think of another election in recent years where democrats have been so united both supporting the candidacy of joe biden and Kamala Harris but also united behind the notion that we must get rid of donald trump and we can have our other debates after joe biden is sworn in and so i think that that unity of purpose is there. I think the tragic loss of Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg actually has clarified for democrats in a way that i havent seen before, where we actually are focused on the court. Ordinarily democrats arent voting on the court and this time the Supreme Court is on the ballot. So i feel really confident that the Biden Campaign is staying on message. You know, theyre turning trump shenanigans and being disciplined about what theyre doing and so i am confident in that. But at the same time, joe madisons point, i dont believe in prevent defense. I think that you have got to go out there and win the game and i think thats where the democrats are right now. This was a fantastic way to start the show. I cannot thank you enough for being here. Donna edwards, joe madison and Susan Molinari. Michael and alexi will be back in our next hour. But thank you very much for being here at the start of the show. Coming up a closer look at how the most conservative Supreme Court in history could change america forever. Americar when youre through with powering through, its time for theraflu hot liquid medicine. Powerful relief so you can restore and recover. Theraflu hot beats cold. Eve going faster than a closerollercoaster powerful relief so you can restore and recover. Love like yours will surely come my way ahey, aheyhey [music playing] love like yours will surely come my way im a verizon engineer. And im part of the team building. A powerful 5g experience for america. 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Like i made sure i was here this morning. You know . I was going to do it before the election day. But with the news yesterday i made sure i was here this morning. What does her death then mean to you taking away all of the votes we fought to get. Taking away gay rights, rights for women, anything that my kids perceive in the future i dont want anything taken away from them. The death of Justice Ginsburg and her likely replacement with a conservative of Donald Trumps choose willing have realworld consequence for people of color, and lgbtq americans whose rights werent written into the constitution but often decided by the Supreme Court. What would this country look like if not for the land mark rules that brought about the end of segregation, a womans right to make decisions about her own body or Marriage Equality just five years ago . Joining me are irin carmon, author of notorious rbg and Brittany Packnett cunningham and rashad robinson, president of color of change and maya wiley, attorney and professor at the new school. Thank you for coming on, it was kismet and i stumbled on this excellent quote. I dont know who did it, but if you have never had a Supreme Court case decide if you have the same rights as others, you have privilege. Rashad, i mean, that clearly sums up why were having this discussion here. People dont understand why folks are so fearful as a result of the death of Justice Ginsburg. That crystallizes it. It absolutely crystallizes it and at the same time, so many of us that have had to had our fights, our rights fought for, have had to watch and wonder if allies are going to be stand up or theyre going to enable. So in each of the moments youre having your very future sort of decided on by either a court or by a legislature and having to each election show up to fight for those rights and make sure those rights are sustained. So for those of us that have to be on the line, this is a very tragic moment and i do think that for folks sitting at home and wondering what they can do, what is the strategic next step, yes, we have to place a lot of pressure on congress and yes, there will be particular targets that youre going to get a lot of emails about to push. But also, you worked inside of corporations or businesses or you may be engaged inside is of other institutions that say they stand up for Racial Injustice or stand up for lgbtq equality, but may send a signal through the chamber of commerce or how they lobby that the next sort of Supreme Court nominee from trump is going to be okay, because theyll be okay on tax policy, this an opportunity for those of us who put so much into businesses and corporations for them to succeed that youre not going to be able to enable this in the darkness. We are going to expose those who stand up and send a message that the next nominee is okay if theyre going to rip away our rights. Brittany, i see you nodding like we are in church because rashad took us through church. Add to what he just said. I think rashad is making such an important point because we often cede our power as citizens to those we elect and we have to remember as barack obama always says that the office of citizen is the most important one. Not only do those folks that we elect work for us and we are absolutely their bosses but its our job like a boss to hold them accountable to the expectations that we set. And these are the very moments when its going to be up to us to hold those folks accountable with every fiber of our being and every gift and talent that we have. Yes its about calling congress and putting pressure on the gop senators who have the power to actually help stop the processes that we know Mitch Mcconnell is going to try to force down our throats even though i really wish hed be moving much more urgently on a stimulus bill for those who are still suffering from this pandemic instead of Something Like filling this scotus seat. But its going to be up to us to push and force our elected officials to be transformative. So many politicians are followers. We have to be the leaders and set the agenda for them to follow. We have to make sure that we recognize that if this institution is not serving all of our people well and lets be clear it is not, it is not serving all lgbtq folks well and not serving all voters of color well and its not certainly selling all women and nonconforming well so if this is not serving us all well then we have the power to shift it and to make it so it works for all of us. We need the elected officials to be bold enough to think about the longterm battle where all of our rights continue to be at risk. Irin, you wrote the book, notorious rbg and i want to put up something a story in vox about Justice Ginsburgs legacy and her dissent in the Voting Rights act case, you see it on the screen. But the key thing she wrote was throwing out preclearance when it has worked and is continuing to work to stop discriminatory changes is like throwing away your umbrella in a rainstorm because you are not getting wet. That speaks to the clarity and brilliance of Justice Ginsburg, but jump in on the conversation we have been having and sort of explaining why people are so concerned one, sad for the loss of Justice Ginsburg but concerned about what the loss of Justice Ginsburg means for the country. Jonathan, im so glad you shared that quote because thats the day that my coauthor nicknamed her the notorious rbg because of the way shes standing up for the Voting Rights. The Supreme Court stood for the white and the powerful and it has a dark history of signing off on forced sterilization of slavery. The decisions that we think are of moving are a parenthesis of the Supreme Court and theyll come back. When she put on that collar and pointed out that undermining the Voting Rights would have enormous negative consequences for the democracy she was asking everybody to Pay Attention. Much in the way that rashad and brittany were talking about. She absolutely never thought that the Supreme Court was the only lever of change. But she also understood it was a really powerful one and so you had a Voting Rights act that was signed off on by both chambers of commerce, signed by president bush and a bipartisan bill that john roberts decided to undermine on a totally novel legal theory, so the Supreme Court has been bad and its been bad even when it took with one hand and took with the other. So that same Voting Rights decision that came around the same time that lgbt rights were being expanded in terms of the right of marriage. Theres a long history of the Supreme Court protecting the powerful and when Justice Ginsburg put on her dissenting collar she was protesting that. But its responsive to popular engagement. It is responsive and when culture change happens. When people take to the streets. When theres political pressure and a lively debate in the public sphere, even nine lifetime appointed justices can take note. I think theyre they think about how far they can go in part because theyre looking to what the public is saying. You know, maya wiley, to that point, i dont know if i have this yes, i do. Im sorry, control room. Element three about the popular engagement. We know for a long time that the American People are for the womens right to choose. The Supreme Court should keep as is, 63 , and overturn it, 29 . Here we are a couple of days after the passing of Justice Ginsburg and there is a lot of concern that now with the potential of a 63 conservative majority on the Supreme Court that among all the rights that are in the crosshairs roe v. Wade is the ones that they want overturned. Absolutely. And Ruth Bader Ginsburg was a giant for justice on all kinds of issues and that was so important because particularly at a time when we have a president who ran on a platform that said, america being great again is america being the america of its racist past. America being america of its sexist past. America being an america that has a single religion, not multiple religions. But that was his platform and he promised to deliver a Supreme Court that made good on that platform. And so when we lose our giants for justice just as every single panelist has said, the question becomes how do we ensure that we are protecting that very justice . We know that Justice Roberts was a very shaky vote to draw the line, to protect us against louisianas very restrictive abortion law. But we should also remember that its not just whether we could take roe v. Wade away. And the Supreme Court can ensure as it has been doing for a long time now its so difficult for women to get an abortion if they choose one. That its virtually the same as not having the right. So we have to be very careful even about whether the test is just about taking roe away. But really how does the Supreme Court give voice to the very real experiences if closing clinics or making it hard for doctors to have admitting privileges at a hospital, if they provide the service, that those things in and of themselves can essentially make roe vs. Wade roe versus no, you cant. I love the phrase you used, about giving voice. I wonder if okay, fine, not fine, but if theres a 63 conservative majority on the court, does that mean that the voice of the American People wont be heard . That all of the things were talking about a womans right to make decisions about her own body, the rights of lgbtq americans, the rights of disabled americans, anyone written into the constitution by the Supreme Court our concerns will fall on deaf ears . Yes. And thats the wakeup call. Think of it this way, jonathan. Remember that justice sotomayor, the only latina and person whos latino to sit on the bench said and was excoriated for it, but it was true. She said, i come from an experience. I come from an experience no one else had. Because i know what it is to bepuerto rican in the United States. That the same thing was true when Thurgood Marshall was appointed saying, i know what it means to be black in america. And as Ruth Bader Ginsburg said i know what it means to be a woman. And just remember part of what happened and having a balanced court. It meant that people like Thurgood Marshall had relationships with folks like Sandra Day Oconnor or people like Ruth Bader Ginsburg had relationships with Antonin Scalia and they debated amongst themselves in the room where it happens that none of us get to see what these things mean. If we dont have the experiences, the daily lived experiences of the American People, we do not have justice. We do not have voice. Because its not a theoretical exercise to decide whether something interrupts our right or advances them. Real quick, we have less than a minute left. Rashad robinson and irin carmon, your final thoughts . The balance of the court was really shifted in the 2016 election as tragic as Justice Ginsburgs loss was, its incumbent on everyone to remember that its not the only lever but its the one that motivated conservatives and theres a few points of action that you can make your points heard. 15 seconds. Over the last several months the things that have gotten the left out into the streets is about fighting racism but about Racial Justice being a driver. The rules and norms that got us into this place are because of racial and gender injustice. That is going to be the driver, the participation driver for us not only beating this back but creating the necessary wave around this election to move us forward. Rashad robinson, erin cameron, maya wiley, thank you very much. Brittany, youll be back in our next hour. Coming up, senator Debbie Stabenow tells us how democrats plan to stop trump from shaping the Supreme Court in his image. The Supreme Court in his image he due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. So if theres a better treatment than warfarin, im on top of that. Eliquis. Eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. Plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. Eliquis is fdaapproved and has both. Whats next . Getting out there. 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I got it all from you im always pushing through i know well make it to the finish line i know youre waiting on the other side im like you ondemand glucose monitoring. Because theyre always on. Another lifechanging technology from abbott. So you dont wait for life. You live it. I want you to use my words against me, if theres a republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said lets let the next president , whoever it might be, make that nomination. You could use my words against me and you would be absolutely right. Welcome to a. M. Joy, im jonathan capehart. And yes, senator graham, we will use your words against you. Four years ago you made your opinion plain about filling a Supreme Court vacancy in an Election Year. But 24 hours after Ruth Bader Ginsburgs death, graham reversed course and showed once again his complete fealty to the president. Graham is one of the 23 republican senators with a seat up for grabs this november. And while the Cook Political Report lists his seat among those leaning republican, its clear graham is in a tough reelection battle. A recent quinnipiac poll showed senator graham tied with democratic challenger Jaime Harrison whom he took a dig at in yesterdays tweet. With 44 days left until the election, what does the looming Supreme Court battle mean for senator graham and other vulnerable republicans clinging to their seats and how will Senate Democrats respond . Joining me now is michigan senator Debbie Stabenow, senator stabenow, thank you very much for being here this morning. Absolutely, jonathan, its always wonderful to be with you. And before we continue this discussion i just also have to send out my love and support to Ruth Bader Ginsburgs family. And she really has been my hero. And her decisions, her fights, her dissents made a difference in not only my life, my daughter, my two granddaughters, my whole family. So we need to constantly remember that we need to Pay Attention to lifting up her life and her legacy. And thank you for that, senator. And to that point, how much of an impact will the loss of Justice Ginsburg have on those senate races . Does it and this sounds crass, given that were talking about the passing of a justice, but does it make it a little easier for democrats running for the senate to make the case that they should take over from their republican challengers . First of all, jonathan, i think each race will be different. You talked about South Carolina. People in South Carolina are going to have to decide which Lindsey Graham they believe. And, you know, the choice there i think will be stark. We see that across the country. I think its very clear, voting has already started. As we know, it starts this thursday with absentee ballot voting in michigan. And it really is important that people, because of the consequence of this selection on our way of life and our future and opportunities, its important that people have the opportunity to make their voices heard and to let a president who will then nominate the justice. I think its also extremely important that we are focused on what this means and what we can do right now. I remember when donald trump was elected and the republicans had control of the senate and they said the first thing were going to do is repeal the Affordable Care act. And on the surface, they had the votes to do that. But we organized, we did everything we could to give people the opportunity to speak out and organize. And then in the end, you know, well never forget, after all that work, we had the three members and the iconic moment in which john mccain walked into the senate chambers, thumbs down. And so we need four republicans right now. And so weve got a lot of things we can talk about and what can happen in the future. But at the moment, when they couldnt take away health care in the United States congress, they now move to the courts. President trump wants to rip it away, including preexisting conditions, with reproductive choice for women right behind it. And so this is the moment to hold republicans in the United States senate accountable. Who will those four people be . Actually, senator, youre anticipating my question. First, who will those four senators be . And then i want to get you on what consequences democrats could throw out there for republicans. Who are the four . Who do you think they will be . Well, jonathan, thats the big question, right . Come on, give us some names. I dont know who the next senator john mccain is, with the integrity and, you know, willingness to stand up for what our constitution is supposed to be all about, and for health care for people. Im not sure who those four are. But i know when we started to push on the Affordable Care act, we didnt necessarily think john mccain was one of three. And so we dont know at this point. Health care is on the line in a way its never been. We talking about it all the time, it was certainly the top issue in 2018 in michigan as well as across the country. But the reality is, this is the final link here. This is the final step. They lost it in congress. Now theyre before the Supreme Court with oral arguments one week after the election. [ inaudible ] the United States senate, the republicans and President Trump next week, are arguing against the will of the American People, is something we all need to reject. 41 Million People stand to lose their health care if the aca is taken away. One more question for you, senator, and thats to the consequences. Yesterday Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer said that everything is on the table if republicans do what it looks like theyre going to do. So do you will democrats have the guts to follow through on the threats that will be made . First of all, jonathan, i think, you know, we have been standing up over and over and over again, and i would put the courage of our caucus, you know, up against anyone. I think it would be irresponsible for senator schumer to say anything else at this point. Of course were looking at all the options. The practical reality, though, for all of us who are concerned, is to understand, we dont have the votes. They only need 51. And our power comes from all of us speaking out and then using limited tools we have to create time for people to be able to speak out. Thats the focus right now. And then we go forward from there. And im hopeful, a new president and Vice President , a new democratic majority including my colleague gary peters who needs to be reelected in michigan, we do that, and then you have folks who are committed to health care, expanding health care, reproductive choice, tackling climate change, protecting Voting Rights, lgbtq rights, everything we care about. Step one right now is are there four republicans who have the courage to stand up. Then vote, vote, veote. And we will use the tools we need to, to make sure we protect Peoples Health care. Well continue to fight as we have all the way along. Im really proud of our caucus and im looking forward to a new president and a majority thats going to understand that health care is personal, not political. Its about time we started acting like it. Senator Debbie Stabenow from michigan, thank you very much for being on the show today. Absolutely. Joining me now, Michael Steele, former rnc chair and Senior Adviser to the lincoln project. A political reporter from axios and msnbc contributor. And erin haynes, msnbc contributor and editor at large of the 19th all yall welcome. Michael steele, im going to come to you first and ask you the question i asked senator stabenow. Who are the four republicans . Who are the four Senate Republicans who could be the john mccain of what were about to go through right now in terms of approving a new justice to the Supreme Court . I think youve got two that have already stepped forward, murkowski and collins. I think you also may have a moment for mitt romney. Its interesting, i have not heard his name mentioned as much over the last few days. But thats a possibility as well. And then the fourth will probably be one of those other republicans who is on the bubble. How does a cory gardner reconcile his vote, potential vote, wiif you will, in colorad . What does senator tillis do in North Carolina, who is also on the hot seat . So there is a lane in which i think folks can be persuaded. And so this is a pincer move. The one side coming from the colleagues, their colleagues in the senate, and the other coming from the people in their states. And that relates back to what i asked in the last hour, is the Democratic Party really built for this, are you guys really ready to do this game the way it needs to be done . Because you cannot look at this conventionally. There is nothing that donald trump has done since he came down that elevator that falls into any scope of conventional politics. So why do press and politicians continue to treat him as if he is a conventional player . He is not. So bringing that pincer move to the table i think could be a good way to begin to move the needle towards a common sense spot. Erin, you are the newbie of this panel, so let me get your thoughts on chairman steeles not admonition, but query for the democrats. Are they built for the fight that theyre now in . You know, jonathan, what i hear from the Biden Campaign is they see this as a fight that is good for them. Thinking back to 2018, in the wake of the kavanaugh hearings, seeing how galvanized that hearing made democrats and how that brought into focus for them in a way that really rivalled the gops focus on the Supreme Court, how much this will matter for voters. You saw women running for office in the wake of those hearings, women protesting those hearings and taking that energy to the polls with them in the 2018 election, ushering in the most Diverse Congress weve seen largely on the backs of women and people of color. As far as democrats are concerned, the Supreme Court is now a Kitchen Table issue. Much in the way that health care, the economy, and race optimism, frankly are, headed into november. And youve seen this record fundraising, you know, that shows that voters are absolutely focused on this. And i think that youre going to see joe biden and also Kamala Harris continuing to hammer this as an issue for folks. And so not only in the congress but also on the campaign trail, i think that you will see that democrats may be ready to take this fight on and stand with voters to make this an issue that could lead to victory both in the senate and in this president ial election. Erin, you mention fundraising. And act blue, theyre raising so much money hand over fist, that i had one number when i got into the studio today, i think it was 91 million, and now, act blue has tweeted out they have raised 100 million. You can see in the tweet that they put out this morning at 10 27, so a half hour, almost 40 minutes ago, 100 million since friday. Alexi, one of the things i wondered almost immediately is the impact of Justice Ginsburgs passing on senate races. And personally, i thought that for senator Lindsey Graham, this was a lifeline for him in his tough race. But there are other tough races. You can see, senator graham is tied with Jaime Harrison, his democratic challenger there in South Carolina. In maine, as you see there, sara gideon is leading incumbent senator Susan Collins there by it looks like, if my math im not going to do the math, you can see it, look with your own eyes. Mitch mcconnell is comfortably ahead of ms. Mcgrath there. But from your seat, what kind of an impact will the passing and the fight over the Supreme Court seat, now empty because of the passing of Justice Ginsburg, what kind of an impact will that have on senate races, do you think . Its going to be tough for Senate Republican candidates who are trying to kind of distance themselves from President Trump in their reelection efforts, especially in states like colorado that are more purple or these races in places like montana or maine that are moving more towards tossup. Youre seeing senators who have to build their kind of independent profile, independent of the president and the Republican Party. That will be hard to do as theyre expected to move in lockstep with their party in the direction of confirming a Supreme Court nominee from the president. I also think about states like arizona where the republican senator mcsally is running behind where President Trump is running in that state, which of course suggests shes less popular than the president is, the Republican Voters in that state are more trump voters than Republican Party voters. How does she handle this situation . Senator Susan Collins was a decisive vote in the kavanaugh confirmation hearing, thats something that really fired up democrats against her in maine. Theyre going to continue that pressure on her. I think it could put these republican vulnerable senators in a really tricky position. But it also gives democrats an opportunity to sort of talk about, like erin was saying, these Kitchen Table issues Like Health Care and civil rights and reproductive rights, things that could really help democrat voters statewide come out and vote, especially as theyre already fired to vote for joe biden. Michael steele, last question to you quickly, given your admonitions several times this morning, have you seen or heard any democrat make sense on this issue of the Supreme Court . You know, its always been interesting to me that the democrats hadnt figured out that this was a sweet spot for republicans and therefore it was a sweet spot in the country. So it has surprised me that up til this point, democrats have never engaged on the federal judiciary. And i get it, i understand it, and i agree that it should not be, of all the branches, it should be the least politicized, the least political. But thats not where we are anymore. Right. Weve seen now since the middle of the obama term, an upscaling of the politics of the court. So you either get in that game or you get run over by it. And i think for the democrats right now, this is their moment, this is their nadir, this is where they have to stand in the mirror and say are we ready to do this and make some decisions. Schumer out there saying, everythings off the table next year, okay, thats next year, baby, youve got to worry about the next six weeks, and then that period in between. So whats your strategy there . Dont tell me what youre going to be doing a year from now. Youve got an election right in front of you. And thats the problem. I dont get the sense that they really understand and appreciate whats right in front of them. As usual, Michael Steele, i hope on that case youre wrong. Michael steele, alexi, thank you very much for being on the show. Erin will be back later. Next up, american autocracy. Keep it right here. 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Stress comfort comes naturally, only from natures bounty where weve got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, gas ranges and grills. And if youre looking for. If youre asking me when is it going to be generally available to the American Public so we can begin to take advantage of a vaccine to get back to our regular life, i think were probably looking at third late second quarter, Third Quarter 2021. I think he made a mistake when he said that, its just incorrect information. Were ready to go immediately as soon as the vaccine is announced, it could be announced in october, it could be announced a little after october. This is far from the first time donald trump has contradicted a Senior Health official. But is it because hell say anything to appeal to his base so he can win reelection . Or is the u. S. On a slippery slope toward something far more sinister . A swedish project that monitors the health of democracies around the world found the u. S. Is currently experiencing, quote, exactly the same pattern of decline seen in other autocratizing nations and only one in five democracies that start down this path are able to reverse the damage before succumbing to fullblown autocracy. Masha guess inis the author of surviving autocracy and ann applebaum, author of twilight of democracy. Masha, anne, thank you for being on the show today. I wanted to have this discussion with the both of you, because you both have warned us, the American People, about the dangers of autocracy and what the signs are. To my mind, that clip, that montage we just showed between the cdc director and the president is yet another sign. Anne, let me start with you. Just your reaction to that montage we played and why should Americans Care when the president of the United States is contradicting a health official. We should care because its a sign that somebody in a position of political power is no longer willing to defer to expertise, to appointed officials who are there to protect public health, and who is twisting the organs of government and using government for his own political needs and not for the needs of americans. In other words, hes putting, on top of the concerns of American Health and the american economy, hes putting his own reelection. Any study of declines in democracy show that one of the first things that happens is that people begin to have doubt in institutions, they have doubts in bureaucracy, they have doubts in courts, they have doubts in institutions of the state. Trump, although hes the beneficiary of those doubts himself, its one of the reasons why he won, hes also increased and underlined them and expanded them since hes been president. Another example of that is a New York Times report, cdc testing guidance was published against scientists objections. Controversial guidelines saying people without covid didnt need to get tested, which came from the top down, from the hhs and the task force, said an official with knowledge of the matter. That policy does not reflect what many people at the cdc feel should be the policy, just to amplify what you just said, anne. Masha, another thing that people should Pay Attention to is something that the attorney general of the United States, bill barr, said. This is quoted in the New York Times. Barr told prosecutors to consider sedition charges to protest violence. Hes said to have asked prosecutors to explore whether to bring charges against the mayor of seattle for allowing a policefree protest zone. Masha, please tell viewers why that is particularly concerning. You know, traditionally in the United States, in the United States, of all places, protest has been seen as a legitimate part of the political conversation, and an integral part of education, when American Students learn about american history, they learn about protest as a civil right. To frame protest as how being against the state is an autocratic move. [ inaudible ]. Anne, i believe it was the big piece that i read, i believe, in the atlantic, when you talked about autocracy as something that happens in small, imperceptible steps. And by the time people realize that things have become autocratic, it is too late. Given whats happening in the United States, from your perspective, how far down the slope are we to becoming an autocratic state . I think, to be clear, its never too late. You can always reverse these processes. The democratic spirit is something thats very powerful. And you can see it in even very deep autocracies. In belarus, as were speaking right now, its a country run by one dictator. Theyre having protests in the street right now. I think the u. S. Has gone and particularly part of the political system have gone down the road that weve just been describing, in other words, criminalizing opposition, treating organs of the state and neutral institutions as Party Political bodies, politicizing bodies, like the cdc. These really are all warning signs. And they are familiar to us from other places, if you look around the world at countries where democracy has declined, these are often the first steps. I think its really important that americans not be complacent, that they not say, because weve always had democracy, well always have it, it will always function, its like water coming out of the tap and we dont have to do anything about it. Civic engagement and civic involvement is always important. But its particularly crucial now, as we can see some of these institutions kind of rotting before our eyes. Masha, let me get your reaction to something that Michael Cohen, President Trumps former fixer, told our colleague here, rachel maddow, in an interview. Take a listen. The power that he now has, has gone to his head. He wants to be an autocrat. He wants to be president of the country for life, just like putin, just like maduro, just like mohammed bin salman. Thats why he says, what about 12 more years . Hes not joking. Understand, doesnt have a sensitive humsense of humor. He doesnt laugh, he doesnt tell jokes. He means it when he says it. Masha, how realistic is it for donald trump to follow through on what Michael Cohen just said in that clip . First of all, we dont need Michael Cohen to tell us this. Donald trump tells us this over and over again. And we need to listen to him. When he ran for president , he actually ran for [ inaudible ]. He has been talking about not recognizing the results of the election since he got the elected, right . We know this. We dont need to have arguments about whether or not hes serious. Of course hes serious, right . He generally has had a pretty good track record of following through with what he says and meaning what he says. I want to get back to accident that anne said, which is, yes, it is never too late, and we do see amazing democratic protests in a country like belarus, sustainable, beautiful, peaceful. But what we also see is that the people of belarus have been protesting for more than a month and have absolutely no levers left to get the regime to listen to them. The regime can just act as though theyre not there. Its been going on for over a month. Hundreds of thousands of people in the streets. And no change. And thats the real danger, right . So the question i think we need to be asking is, not when is it too late to reverse the a autocratic attempt, but when are we still going to have the mechanisms to do that . Our last chance, i think, is november 3. Marsha gessen, anne applebaum, two people who if youre not reading them, you must read them. Thank you very much for being on the show today. Thank you. More a. M. Joy after the break. Youre clearly someone who takes care of yourself. So when it comes to screening for colon cancer, dont wait. Because when caught early, its more treatable. Im cologuard. Im noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool to find 92 of colon cancers even in early stages. Tell me more. Its for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your prescriber if cologuard is right for you. Im on it. Thats a step in the right direction. Im on it. When you think of a bank, you think of people in a place. 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Click or call for a quote today. Some have mentioned the possibility, if they try to push through a nominee in a lame duck session, that and you the house could move to impeach President Trump or attorney general barr as a way of stalling and preventing the senate from acting on this nomination. Well, we have our options. We have arrows in our quiver that im not about to discuss right now. But the fact is, we have a big challenge in our country. This president has threatened to not even accept the results of the election, with statements that he and his henchmen have made. So right now, our main goal, and i think Ruth Bader Ginsburg would want that to be, is to protect the integrity of the election as we protect the American People from the coronavirus. We have a responsibility. We take an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. We have a responsibility to meet the needs of the American People. That is, when we way the equities, protecting our democracy requires us to use every arrow in our quiver. The big question of the day is what will democrats do, what can democrats do in the wake of the Senate Upheaval thats followed the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Erin haynes and Brittany Cunningham are back with us and joining our panel, midwin charles, an attorney. What i found interesting about that clip of Speaker Pelosi is how much more tough she sounded compared to what Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer said yesterday, that everything is on the table. Midwin, youre the newbie on the panel, give me your reaction of what you heard from Speaker Pelosi. I watched that interview this morning and i have to say, i was like, finally, overjoyed. Because what we do want, i think, is a speaker of the house who is forceful. And if there was ever a time for her to be forceful, it is now. And so i was happy to hear her say that. I think a lot of people oftentimes look at the Democratic Party and feel like, where is the strategy, right . For example, we would not be here today at this sort of precipice of fighting over this Supreme Court nominee if democrats had been speaking supremecourtese, right, which is a language that teaches their base how important the Supreme Court is, as well as all federal courts. So i was happy to hear her say that, i was happy to hear her acknowledge the power of democraticcontrolled house oversight. A lot of us feel, where has the oversight been . Knowing that perhaps theyre planning something or that they know what their options are and they may weigh them, i think is important, because i think the base needs to be energized, people need to know think get out to vote. People will get out to vote, but its nice to hear her say that and acknowledge that, particularly when you compare and contrast that to Chuck Schumer. And brittany, the panels Michael Steele was on, he was raising the question whether democrats are up for the fight that is about to come. Given what we just heard from Speaker Pelosi, does it sound like democrats at least in the house are up for the fight, up for the challenge that faces them now . I certainly hope so. I think that Speaker Pelosi has shown that shes got a great deal of grit in tough situations. And frankly i think theres a lot of new energy, in particular from women of color, yes, im talking about the squad and some other folks who are bringing the energy and the fire and the fight that is necessary, not just in the house, but also to the people. I think it was particularly significant that aoc got on instagram live, not to talk to her colleagues but to talk to the people who are saying, what do we do now, how do i show up, how do i fight, how do i support you in fighting inside the arena in washington . And i say this as a progressive, no matter what breitbart might call me, as a progressive who believes that its not just important to repair the things that have been broken and to protect the things that require protection, but to actually move america forward. Yes, as we have already seen, there are people who have been motivated to vote and vote early, because of the death of somebody like Ruth Bader Ginsburg. The best way to honor a changemaker is to keep making change. But some folks, frankly, are unconvinced. Its not our job to condid he se condescend to them. People are wondering how were going to expand health care, how were going to protect disabled americans and expand support for the folks who are newly disabled because of this pandemic and so much more. How are we not just going to fight off old Racial Injustices but create new Racial Injustice or Racial Justice, rather . These are the questions people have, they are valid and righteous and they require americans to fight for every single vote. Erin haynes, let me get you to listen to one senator, tom cotton. If President Trump were to lose in the election six weeks from now, if the senate were to change hands so that it went from republicans to democrats, in a lame duck session with a president who had been defeated and a republican majority that was about to be out of office, some would say the lamest of lame duck sessions, are you saying you still think it would be proper to vote to confirm President Trumps nominee to the court . Chris, as i said, were going to move forward without delay and there will be a vote on this nominee. I mean, erin, not that were surprised by what he said, but just give me your reaction. Yeah, i mean, we also heard senator cotton saying he was taking himself he was on the short list that President Trump touted for erin, actually, to your point about tom cotton taking himself out of contention, lets just play that and then you can keep going. Ive already communicated with the white house that now is not the time to have me under consideration. Im on the ballot in arkansas, under arkansas election law, were long past the time to change the ballot. Im looking forward to working with the president to confirm this nominee, to campaign for reelection myself and to reelect the president because its about more than just this simple nominee. Its about nominations to the Supreme Court in the future as well. Im like, child, please. The president already said yesterday he was going to appoint a woman. But erin, you were saying. Well, thats just where i was getting ready to go. The white house communicated with him that he was out of contention because President Trump said at the rally in North Carolina that he was going to be picking a woman. But listen, i mean, you heard tom cotton, you know, other gop representatives and surrogates for the campaign basically, you know, going back on their word. Ted cruz in 2016 was saying that he was not going to approve Barack Obamas nominee but suddenly now is the time for the senate to act on President Trumps nominee. Its going to be interesting whether voters see that as hypocrisy or see this as, you know, not the same as the 2016 the situation in 2016. But you know, weve been talking a lot in this hour about whether democrats are built for this. You heard Speaker Pelosi talking about every quiver in their every arrow in their quiver. And yeah, that shows that Speaker Pelosi is certainly somebody who has shown she is built for this, being an adversary against President Trump, going toetotoe with him in these past four years. To brittanys point, i think we know the democratic voters who definitely are built for this are the black women who are very energized. Were energized by the prospect of joe biden saying that hes going to put a black woman on the Supreme Court and the prospect of that being thwarted anew by President Trump nominating, you know, somebody to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg, i dont think that that you know, black women are expecting him to appoint somebody thats going to be in her spirit. That nomination or his potential reelection is definitely going to have black women who were already so energized in this election, ready to show up and show out, headed into november. Weve got less than a minute, ive got to go ahead midwin and brittany in. I wanted to buttress on erins point, which is, this is what i mean by the Democratic Party speaking supremecourtese. That language, to their base. If biden has said hes committed to putting a black woman on the Supreme Court, he needs to start giving names, he needs to Start Talking about who he thinks would be a formidable justice on the bench. He needs to talk about, he needs to identify who he thinks so people can Start Talking about it and understanding it. The Democratic Party has done an awful job, woefully inadequate job at explaining to its base the importance of the district courts, federal appellate courts. I clerked for the federal court of appeals on the sixth circuit. People need to know what these courts do and what the power is, because guess what, most laws, when they go for scrutiny on the appellate court, it dies there. The Supreme Court does not take every single case, they dont grant certiori on every single case. The democrats needs to do as ago good a job as republicans have done of grooming their base to understand the value. Brittany, im sorry, ten seconds. Midwin is right, folks need to understand at every level, it can get worse. The democrats are going to be here to stand in the way of it getting worse, protect us from what can happen, and actually fully move us forward. And i should point out, at about 2 00 today, Vice President biden will be speaking in philadelphia on this issue. Erin, brittany, midwin, thank you very much for being on the show today. Next, reverend al sharpton talks to me about his very timely new book. New book. How about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. Which is Breast Cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. Ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr her2 metastatic Breast Cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. 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Assume nothing. Just like the leading brand, kraft real mayo is made with high Quality Ingredients at a price you can feel good about. No wonder kraft is so good. Because they came in 63, we were able to come back in 2020, riding whatever we wanted to ride, staying in whatever hotels was available. They opened the door for us. But there are still some doors we have to open and some people weve got to straighten out. Young al sharpton was only 8 years old when dr. King stood at the Lincoln Memorial and implored the citizens of this nation to live up to their highest ideals. Now, reverend sharpton is a force in his own right, helping activists and organizers plan for a Better Future by connecting them to lessons of their past. Host of Msnbcs Politicsnation and author of rise up confronting a country at the crossroads, reverendyou. Congratulations on your new book, a new book. You hold back in this book at all and so i want to try to get through some of the folks you take to task. President trump. You write its an instance where you say flat out, trump is a racist and you say an instance where the most outrageous headline happens to be true. Trump is a racist. Whether he sits up all night watching old reels of kkk films, i dont know, it doesnt matter. He covers his other actions. He exploits racism, an old wound not fully healed and calls up its fearful anger to personal benef benefit. Why did you feel it was important to state that as plain ly as you did . I felt it was important because im one of the few people in public life that has dealt with donald trump over three or four decades, both adversarial and when he would try to be friendly. Hed come to National Action networks conventions that im president of, and ive had access over a decade to president obama. So when i talk about in rise up, the two roads that america is faced with were at the cross road, im one of the few people that have been in the room as the saying goes, with both side, and know exactly why ive chosen the road i have and why im recommending to others to do. So im not talking as someone who studied from afar, donald trump, or obama, who symbolizes the two roads. Im talk iing about someone who has had access and history to both. Another group of folks you speak plainly about, white liberals. You talk abo lot about and you y this a lot on morning joe, but talk more fully, who are these people . These are those that sit up and never engage in battle. Never engage in struggle. Never are out organizing, knocking on doors, watching any of that, but sit up in comfortable places protecting their privilege giving great advice to those that are going to get engaged. They dont get their hands dirty. Say sip lattes and critique those of us that are doing the work. I think it ironically goes to your show earlier, when i think Michael Steele raised it better than anyone ive heard lately. Are you built for this . This is no time for couch sitting, latte sipping people. Youve got to get out there. The very future of this country is at stake with the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, an icon to all of us. Because now, weve got the Affordable Care act. We have lgbt rights. We have womens rights and aaffirmative action all on the calendar and theyre going to try to ramrod through a nominee and have a vote. This is no time for gathering and theorizing. Weve got to get out there and really organize to save this country. Not for the democrat, but for the democracy. And then you also take to task, you make a edition tings or tadistinction or talk about y why black americans vote democratic versus going to the Republican Party. You write, the democrats failing of the black community however doesnt vindicate the republicans, far from it. The Republican Party wrote off the black Community Years ago. Just because youre in an abusive relationship doesnt mean you leave only to submit yourself to a pimp. I think that i have probably spent the last several decades challenging Democratic Party to do more thfail nd many cases, b does not mean that i want the republicans to get me by default and hustle me and use me to use that effort toward an agenda that is against my interest. So though may make the argument that the democrats have been deficient and in areas, they have, but theyve been better than the republicans. The republicans want you by default to say therefore, give yourself to me so i can use you totally against your interest because youre dissatisfied with where you are. Id rather improve where i am than to be hustled and pimped by people who have no use for them other than i can simply to them to get what they want, which is against my interest. Ive covered you for almost 30 years. Weve been friends for almost that long. Congratulations on the book. Today at 5 00 on politics nation, youre going to be talking with Michael Cohen, the former fixer to President Trump, who also has a book out. Thank you very much for being on the show. Thank you, jonathan, and you have covered me for 30 years. You were 5 years old when you started, which is quite a feat. I was a genius. Rev, really, thank you very much. And thats our show for today. Thank you so much for watching. Up next, alex whit has the latest. Next, alex whit has the latest of the team building. A powerful 5g experience for america. Its 5g ultra wideband, and its already available in parts of select cities. Like los angeles. And in new york city. And its rolling out in cities around the country. With massive capacity. Its like an eightlane highway compared to a twolane dirt road. 25x faster than todays 4g networks. In fact, its the fastest 5g in the world. From the network more people rely on. 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Visit chase. Com mobile. Start your day with secret. Secret stops sweat 3x more than ordinary antiperspirants. With secret, youre unstoppable. No sweat try it and love it or get your money back. Good day, everyone, from new york. High noon here in the west. 9 00 a. M. In the west. Escalating battle, both sides taking their positions in the battle over the support. A support. A new threat from democrats that could make donald trump think twice. Zblncht joe biden heads to philly in matter o of hours to talk support while Kamala Harris heads to a critical battleground state. Two frontrunners. Who they are and what you need to know about the possible Supreme Court nominees. Possibly danger. Another gathering of bikers in the midwest raising more fears ov covidf covid19 spread. Well take you there, safely, that is, straight ahead, but we begin in washington where the battle escalates over Ruth Bader Ginsburgs seat just two days after her death. The vacancy now fiercely debated on capitol hill and the race for the white house. On the hill, both lawmakers from both sides making their case whether a nominee from President Trump should be considered. We need a full court on election day given the very high likelihood that were going to see litigation that goes to the court. We need to Supreme Court that can give a definitive answer for the country. The last time a justice was considered after someone died unexpe unexpe unexpectly, scalia, set by our cheeg colleague. Clinton said you cant have one set of rules for democrat and anoth