Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20200105

Companies. The 1979 revolution was the blowback. Iranians overthrew the government, the shah or king we imposed on them in 1953 and replaced it with the islamic regime that runs iran today. To be clear, overthrowing governments we dont like is a part of the cia war games history. Regime change has never exactly been good policy and has been known to yield brutal results for the people who live in the countries that weve interfered with. But targeting and bombing and destroying cultural sites, thats a war crime. It directly violates the Hague Convention as several people have pointed out to trump on twitter, including members of congress. Trumps decision to target a member of the iranian government for assassination was not only reckless placing the u. S. At risk of war with iran, it apparently was the most extreme choice offered to trump by his National Security advisers. Apparently they didnt think hed be crazy enough to do it. According to the New York Times trump initially rejected the idea of killing solemani on december 19th. Shortly after that, according to Defense Department and administration officials, after television reports showed protests at the American Embassy in bagdad, trump, quote, fuming, decided to move forward with the most drastic option, leaving top pentagon officials stunned. Now trump is preparing to join his favorite leisurewear salesman as a war criminal. Joining me is hasan of the intercept and Michael Mcfaul former advisor to the russian four years ago trump had no clue who Qasem Soleimani was. Now he may have kicked off world war iii. Youre referring to the interview with hugh hewitt in which donald trump confused the quds force with the kurds. So what do you make of where we are now when you saw the huge protests taking place over the death of solemani, the assassination of solemani. Where are we now . Were in a very bad place, joy, im sorry to say. This is what happens when you put a narcissistic former reality tv star with a thin skin and large temper in charge of the worlds most powerful military. He does things like this. Some of us were warning that he would do Something Like this for years when some of my colleagues in the media including liberals and lefties were buying into the nonsense that trump is some dove or antiwar candidate or isolationist or antiinterventionist. The rest of us were saying, no, you cant put a person like this in charge of nuclear weapons, to run Foreign Policy when he doesnt know anything about Foreign Policy. You get a decision like that where a lot of people say, whats the strategy . Trump doesnt do strategy. Trump, as you mentioned in your introduction, sees the images, gets angry about whats happening to the u. S. Embassy in iran, wants to do something obama didnt do. You mentioned that pentagon officials didnt think he would be crazy to pick the extreme option he had in front of him. Who were these officials . Were they asleep for the last three years . They thought he could put an option like this in front of a psychopath like trump and he wouldnt take it. Its irresponsible, mad i would say, for anyone to offer him plans like this. God help us what next set of options they gave him if the iranians retaliate. As you mentioned, trump is already bragging about war crimes on twitter saying hell attack cultural sites. You know who else attacks cull 250ur8 sites . Isis. Hes keeping company of saudi arabia, putin. His choices of people he admires are people that dont respect the laws of normal behavior. It is shocking to say that, first of all, they should take his tv away. Watching things on tv makes him do stuff like this. Gloem to former ambassador Michael Mcfaul. Donald trump told his party guests what he was going to do. He chatted with lindsey graham, not one of the people entitled to know. He didnt tell the gang of eight, didnt Tell Congress what he was going to do. Secretary of state mike pompeo did talk to somebody russia. Mike pompeo tweets about the fact he led with Russian Foreign minister lavrov and they the discussed Decisive Action drum employed in bagdad t. Russian foreign minister lavrov warned secretary of state mike pompeo in that discussion that a drone strike that killed Qasem Soleimani was illegal and threatened middle eastern stblt and peace. This morning david gura was reporting earlier the Russian Administration is saying this was a gross violation of international law. Trump told him after the fact. Even russia, who donald trump is quite in league with, is saying this is a horror. Your thoughts. Well, i dont know where to begin. I think the Central Point is what you were just discussing. What is the u. S. Strategy visavis iran today. How does this latest action help us achieve it . What is scary for me is there does not seem to be a process in place to develop and implement a National Security policy. The president has said and secretary pompeo has said if you look at the speech he gave on iran a couple years ago, he outlined several goals. One is to make americans safer. Two is to permanently dismantle the iran nuclear program. Three is to end all terrorism in the region and four by some, not all, is to bring more Democratic Change to iran. On all four of those policy objectives, its very difficult to see how this latest killing of mr. Solemani achieves any of those four goals. I think we need to start judging them and judging their actions by the objectives that they themselves have set out. Thats the first thing. The second thing is we have to stop blaming president obama for the situation were in as secretary pompeo has done several times already this morning. He keeps saying we had to restore deterrence. I want to remind everybody, they have been in power now for three years. If theyre restoring deterrence, that means they had not achieved that objective over the last three years. Not only that. The deterrence was the Iran Nuclear Deal when europe and the United States made a deal with this regime to bring it back to normalcy. They are the ones that pulled out of this deal. This wasnt president obama that did that. This to me is the greatest cheek of all. Here is mike pompeo complaining that the europeans who donald trump has called an enemy when he called russia a friend, that theyre not helping. Here is mike pompeo. Frankly the europeans havent been as helpful as i wish they could be. The brits, the french, the germans need to understand what we did, what the americans did saved lives in europe as well. This is a good thing for the entire world. Were urging everyone to get behind what the United States is trying to do. I dont mean to laugh. Let me play really quickly joe bidens response to that. Here is joe biden. You have us isolated from our allies and we have no idea, vi no idea whether he has any plan at all. But when he makes statements like that, it just seems to me to be hes going off on a tweet storm on his own and its incredibly dangerous and irresponsible. Mehdi, those of us who opposed the iraq war who turned out to be right, at least in that instance george w. Bush managed to get a couple dozen countries to go along with it. This guy has alienated all of those countries. He couldnt get anyone only israel, Benjamin Netanyahu praised trump for this assassination. Even russia didnt. Hes got nobody. Hes complaining the europeans hes alienated are not helping. Im glad you mentioned the iraq war. Donald trump backed the invasion of iraq even though he pretends he didnt. Mike pence went in frong of congress in 2004 and claimed we found wmds in iraq. This is the same that kwaum was behind 9 11. Nobody believes that. These are the people that alienate allies. The British Government led by Boris Johnson is a deeply loyal ally. Boris johnson loves donald trump. Even the British Government is furious is the way this was handled. British personnel in iraq, their lives are at stake in any retaliatory attack. They werent told anything. A british official told the Sun Newspaper that trump is behaving like a, quote, mob boss. Its unprecedented for the u. S. Government to assassinate a Senior Member of a Foreign Government in peacetime. It hasnt happened in the modern era. The last time the American Government assassinated a Foreign Government was in 1942 in the middle of world war ii. This is unprecedented actions. Yes, hes turned european allies against the u. S. Look in the middle east. Michael is right to say judge them by their own objectives. The National Security objective of the u. S. Is to roll back iranian influence and isis. The Iraqi Parliament has voted to ask all u. S. Troops to leave. The u. S. Prime minister of iraq says get out. How is that going to help prevent iran taking over the region allegedly with no u. S. Troops. By the way, until recently there were protesters in iraq against iran and protesters in lebanon against iran. Those protesters are now protesting against the United States. Congratulations donald trump. Job well done. Its iran that will have the coalition of the willing. Im jumping around. France and britain, following the death, we urge all parties to deescalate. Further conflict is none of our interests. We are waking up in a more dangerous world. Military escalation is always dangerous, frances deputy minister for foreign affairs. Very happy about it. But everyone else is saying this is insane. To go back for a most, ambassador mcfaul, a former National Security adviser to president obama current stanford. That you know quite well. Now a National Security adviser to Vice President biden. Former department of defense gentleman said, for what its worth i find it hard to believe that pentagon would provide trump targeting options that include iranian cultural sites. Targeting cultural sites is a war crime. Can you give us any sort of your speculation on how donald trump would have come to this idea of targeting these sites . Hes not a guy who is knowledgeable about history. Where would he have gotten such an idea potentially . His new years eve party. Seriously, i dont know the answer to that. That underscores how scary this moment is today when you do not feel like theres an interagency National Security process in place. I worked in the government for five years. I worked three years at the National Security council with barack obama, president obama. For any kind of decision like this, you would have had a process where we would have sat in the white house situation room and up the chain of command presented decisions and deliberated on policy options. These tweets do not seem like that process was in any way, shape or form involved. That is what is scary about this current moment, that you do not have that deliberative process in mind. I want to underscore one other thing. Its not only illegal. Its stupid. Because when you say things like that, you are alienating some of those in iran that are not celebrating the death of mr. Solemani. There are people who are celebrating that, that think he was an evil man. The Trump Administration has said theyre trying to reach out to the Democratic Forces in iran. You do not do that by attacking cultural sites within iran. Youre not going to win the hearts and minds of the iranian people by threatening to attack those cultural sites. Its illegal and also really, really stupid policy. Mehdi, im glad the ambassador said that. People just think of muslim people in muslim countries as this abstraction, where there are no people. The curl turl sites in this country or any country, thats the peoples legacy. The idea that you would think that its okay to even tweet the idea that you would level those things to punish who . There are People Living there. Anyway, your thoughts. Hes united iranians from across the political spectrum behind the government with this kind of rhetoric. Its the greatest pr job the iranian government could wish for. The irony is you mentioned muslims in these countries. Whats so important is context here, because you mentioned at the top of the show, 1953 the cia over threw the elected iranian government. You have trump saying, well, were going to attack 52 sites to mark the 52 hostages that were taken. The United States shot down an iranian airliner in 1988 killing 290 americans. Should the iranians target 290 sites . If you bomb cultural sites, youre going to kill iranian civilians. Were were told by donald trump that he called off an air strike on iran because he was worried about civilian casualties. What changed in six months . Theres an impeachment trial coming up. This is a president on record saying that barack obama will attack iran in order to get reelected. With trump everything is projection. Absolutely. Im going to go to you one more time on this ambassador mcfaul. The other piece that bothers me, the people who would have to fight a war in iran are not trumps children. Trump himself opted out of going to vietnam. A lot of people who joined the military join for economic reasons. Theyre getting health care, jobs, opportunity. Those are the people, people, some of whoms families have no money. Those are the people hes putting at risk, not his own family. Hed never put himself at risk. Bolton all these people who opted out of standing up and fighting in vietnam, its so easy for them to say, well casually start a war for no reason. Feel free to comment, both of you. Joy, i hope we dont get to that point. I take your point. Youre absolutely right. Lets all hope that we do not get to an open conflict with iran because that will be a very serious war that will make the iraq war look like a minor scuffle compared to what would happen in the implications you just described. Lets hope we dont get there. Ill give you the last word, mehdi. As we the last time we did a war, we cultured people. The last time this did not go well for the reputation and the soul of the United States. The last time we helped create isis, still there in that part of the world. On troops dying, this was a president who claimed to be the president to bring the troops home. He was bragging about bringing troops home from syria. His maga base were jumping up and down. This past weekend 3. 5,000 troops are deploying from ft. Bragg, North Carolina. Thats how were beginning 2020. It tends not to be the children of the ruling class. It tends to be the children of the working class. Thank you both for trying to help us unpack this. Next up, senator ben cardin of the Foreign Relations committee is here to talk about war and impeachment. Stay right there. When you shop with wayfair, you spend less and get way more. So you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. Com i have moderate to severe pnow, theres skyrizi. Things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free to bare my skin yeah thats all me. Nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin thats my new plan. Nothing is everything. Keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. Of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. And skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. I see nothing in a different way and its my moment so i just gotta say nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. Nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. We would have been negligent to not do that. Is it that imminent . Is the attacks he was putting together so imminent and so big it would have been seen as that kind of negligence . He made the right decision. Can you confidently say america is safer today . Absolutely. Secretary of state mike pompeo is everywhere selling trumps order to assassinate irans highest ranking military official. In neen Time Congress will be back in session this week. Waiting for them the articles of impeachment against trump. Joining me is democratic senator from maryland ben cardin, a member of the Foreign Relations committee. Senator car den, i want you to First Respond to the lack of disclosure to the gang of eight, to the United States congress, representatives of the American People before donald trump took this action that could lead us to war. Joy, first, its good to be with you. Weve seen this over and over again with this administration. They do not consult with congress. They do not inform us and certainly dont seek the constitutional authorization from congress. There is no authorization to use force against iran. The imminent threat, we dont know about it. It looks like a decision was made first and now theyre looking for a justification for that decision. The real tragedy and the reason consultation is so important with congress is that its in our National Security interest to find a diplomatic solution to iran, not a military one. The president has isolated america diplomatically, making it much more difficult for us to find a proper answer. There is some speculation about whose interest this might have been in . Here is congresswoman Debbie Wasserman schultz of florida on friday. What i think is going on here, frankly, is that this action was taken more in President Trumps selfinterest, rather than our National Interest. We had damning developments in just the last day where emails came out that made it very clear that they covered up the real reason behind the withholding of hundreds of millions of dollars to ukraine. Donald trump was just impeached a week and a half ago. I think that has a lot do with what this attack was zblabt will the senate Foreign Relations committee investigate whether there was anything to what the congresswoman said, that donald trump took this action as a distraction to impeachment . Weve seen over and over again during the Trump Administration President Trump doing exactly that, trying to distract from the news of the day. Hes been very successful in changing the story line. Theres no question that the president wanted this attack and then tried to find a justification for it. It is suspicious. Theres no question about it. Will we investigate that in the United States senate . I would hope we would. We need to get the witnesses for the impeachment that are necessary, that understand what happened with the president in his conversations with the ukraine president. Were getting resistance from the republicans to call the minimum number of witnesses so we can get the facts. Will they now investigate whether the president is doing this iran attack as a distraction . I doubt it. We certainly should be doing it, but if we look at the track record of the Republican Leadership in the senate, its not very hopeful. Do you trust the people advising donald trump on Foreign Policy at this point . Well, there should be a process in place with the National Security team before decisions like this are made. Its hard to comprehend that theres been an orderly process made. Thats certainly not in our National Security interest. This president s way of acting without seeking the proper advice from career diplomats, from career mill, knowing the consequences of these actions really is a major, major concern for National Security. The speaker of the house on the war powers act notification. She said the classified war powers act notification delivered to Congress Raises more questions than answers. This document prompts serious and urgent questions about the time, manner and justification of the administrations decision to engage in hostilities against iran. This initiation of hostilities was taken without an authorization to use mill stair force against iran without the consultation of the congress and without the articulation of a clear and legitimate strategy to either the congress or the public. Are you concerned this attack against a member of a Foreign Government was illegal . Well, the president claims there was an immediate threat to the United States and thats why he ordered the attack. But he has not given any information about that to the congress or the American People. Quite frankly, thats even isolating america further. Its in our National Interest if there wasnt an imminent threat for us to articulate that. Its very suss smois as to the way hes going about it. The authority is with congress to declare war and the use of force. Clearly congress has not authorized the use of force against iran, and yet the president has used force, using the exception of an imminent threat. Was there an imminent threat . Quite frankly, i hope well get the classified briefing, but im very suspicious. Let me remind you of Donald Trumps threat on twitter to attack 52 iranian cultural sites and that is a war crime. And here is mike pompeo being asked about that on abc this morning. Why is the president threatening iran with war crimes . Well behave lawfully. Well behave inside the system. Ive seen what were planning in terms of the target set. The department of defense is continuing to develop options. Every target we strike will be a lawful target and a target designed at the Singular Mission of protecting and defending america. President trump has been diligent about that. If an investigation determines donald trump was, in fact, studying up on finding 52 cull sural sites in iran to bomb, would you be in favor of adding to the impeachment articles threatening war crimes . Joy, i hope the next step well see is Congress Taking action under our constitutional authority. As i said earlier, the president has no authority to use force against iran, except and in case of an imminent threat. Hes not established that, at least publicly he has not. What Congress Needs to do is act and make it clear that we have the power on authorizing the use of force, not the president , and make it clear we do not want to see the president use force against iran under this current scenario. We have a resolution to do that. Thats what we need to do. We want to prevent any further destruction here, and we want the president to uphold the constitution of the United States. Secretary of state mike pompeo was all over the sunday shows this morning justifying the attack on this iranian official, the assassination of him. Do you find mike pompeo credible . Should the American People find mike pompeo credible . I find it very disappointing that he did not consult with congress, give us the information. He has not done that to date. That raises serious questions as to whether there was an imminent threat against the United States. Lastly, does it concern you that mike pompeo has talked with the Russian Foreign minister but not congress . Absolutely. Russia is our enemy. Russia and iran are allies. Yet the secretary of state is talking to the president of russia before hes talking to the United States congress. Thats outrageous very quickly, before i let you go, ill let you respond to Elizabeth Warren on the same subject on whether or not donald trump is using this as a distraction. Take a listen. Nat store are you suggesting President Trump pulled the trigger and had Qasem Soleimani killed as a distraction from impeachment . I think people are reasonably asking about the timing and why it is that the administration seems to have all kinds of different answers. The administration doesnt seem to have a coherent answer for taking a step like that and they have taken a step that moves us closer to war. Ill ask you the same question about donald trump that i asked about mike pompeo. Should the American People find the president of the United States credible on the subject of iran . I think he needs to disclose the information for which he ordered this attack. We dont have that information. Congress has not seen it. Is he credible . The only authority the president could use to do this well, hes going to have to present the facts. We know that he has misstated the facts. Hes lied in the past. We know his track record. His track record is not very positive. Senator ben cardin, thank you for your time. Appreciate it. Coming up next, one of the most important voices in the Democratic Party joins the conversation. Julian castro will join us on the other side of the break. The other side of the break. So proud of the campaign weve run together. Weve shaped the conversation on so many important issues in this race, stood up for the most Vulnerable People and given a voice to those who are often forgotten. With only a month until the Iowa Caucuses and given the circumstances of this campaign season, i have determined that it simply isnt our time. With that announcement, Julian Castro, the only latino in the race for president suspended his campaign. The 2020 democratic field became even less diverse. A remarkable switch from how the race began. Unless theres a drastic change between now and then, these are the five candidates well see on the debate stage next week. Joining me now is Julian Castro. Secretary castro, thank you very much for being here. Good to be with you, joy. So this race for you seemed to end over money. In the next hour were going to interview a member supporter of the bloomberg campaign. Michael bloomberg is maybe poised to spend 200 million, 300 million, it could be more. Your campaign essentially went down over the inability to raise that kind of money. Lets look at the fundraising in quarter four. Bernie sanders raised 34 million, Pete Buttigieg 24 million, joe biden. It goes all the way down if that manner. Do you think money has so overtaken Democratic Party politics that it is now disrupting the ability for diverse candidates to be viable . I think we see some very strong examples of, especially under these dnc thresholds, basically people being able to buy their way onto the debate stage and on to more prominence. So sure, money has still too much to do with who was able to put their voice out there and my campaign is just one example. There are a lot of campaigns during this cycle and across the country. We absolutely need Better Campaign finance reform and starting with, i think, after this election is over, a more thoughtful analysis at the dnc of how you can approach these president ial campaign cycles to allow for voices that may not have the most money, but have good ideas, have good experience, those things that voters want in a president , allow them to be able to grow and present their case. In just talking with people i know that were following the campaign, you were one of the favorites of a lot of africanamerican folks that i know who thought you were speaking to issues, even regarding black peoples lives in this country that they werent hearing from really hardly anyone else in their mind. You were speaking largely to a lot of latino voters who were very proud of how farr you had come in public life and wanted you to go further. When i look at the Democratic Party, very dependent on voters of color, africanamericans are about 12 , latino about 11 of the population. In terms of the vote, the Democratic Party is really dependent on those voters. Did you find the people that were supporting you were the same type of people who give money to fundraisers, who go to fundraisers, who give a lot of money to campaigns . What we found was that we excited a lot of people who usually didnt give to campaigns, but folks were giving 5, 10, 20, 25. Over the life of the campaign our average contribution was like like 18 or 19. But again, these are not the folks that are giving 2,800 or 2,000. Theyre not giving 50,000 to go to an event with a candidate. We were trying to build a Grassroots Movement of people who are often left out of the conversation, not only in terms of the issues but also in this campaign machinery. So i was very proud that i had such a low average contribution from regular folks out there and that a lot of those people were from those black and brown communities that too oftentimes have been ignored. But we have to build that. Im going to do what i can in the years ahead as a private citizen to help continue to build that. I want to talk to you about the news of the day as well. I have one or two more questions on this topic. You said very bluntly that it skews the process to have two states that have very nonwhite population, iowa and New Hampshire to be the lead states. Have you had conversations with dnc leadership about changing the rules and letting a different state go first, a more diverse state . I had a quick conversation with dnc chairman tom bettis. I told tom when this election is over, my hope is that they will look at the way we do this president ial nominating process, including the order that states vote in. I know, look, we have something in place right no obviously thats going to be in place for 2020. Ahead of 2024, i certainly believe that the dnc should look at the order of states. It was fascinating. Yesterday i saw one of the candidates for u. S. Senate running in iowa to replace joanie serns is it came out and said this iowa caucus is not the way we should start a president ial nominating process because you can only vote once, theres no early voting, no mailin ballot, no secret ballot. People with disabilities, shift workers, senior citizens, a lot of folks cant get to or participate in the iowa caucus, and thats why it only has about a 16 turnout rate. Its like it was designed by right wing republicans to have a low voter turnout, but thats the way we actually start out our most important nominating process in the Democratic Party. It doesnt make any sense. I think the days of doing it this way are definitely numbered. Do you still have an interest in running either statewide or nationally . Would you be interested in perhaps running for senate in texas or being on a ticket as Vice President . I mean right now were just wrapping up the campaign and trying to tie up all the loose ends there. Look, i would be lying to you if i said i could either say definitely im going to run for something in the future or im never going to run again. I lost the race once before when i was 13 years old for mayor of san antonio. I remember feeling right after i lost that race, oh, im done with this, im not going to run again in the future. But what i found was two things, number one, its true what they say, that you learn more when you lose than when you win. Because if you have any sense of pride, what you have to do is reach down and really think about what you could have done better and the team could have done better. Secondly, sometimes its just not your time, and i think this just wasnt my time. But times change and both time and people are able to i think need a moment. So will that moment come in the future . Maybe. Does it worry you that the democratic electorate in terms of the way they answer polls and the way theyre directing their money are sending a message that theyre nervous about the idea of nominating a person of color and they might have been nervous about you because of your liberal stance on things like immigration and the democratic voters might be too afraid to nominate someone like you . Of course that concerns me. I know why people would feel like that this year more than most years because the overwhelming sentiment out there is we just want to get rid of this guy, weve got to get rid of donald trump. Some people are determined to i guess in some way play it as safe as possible to just get rid of donald trump. The thing is we may be walking into a trap because the last time we were able to actually win was with barack obama in 2008 and 2012, and he won not because he played it safe for his time but because he assembled a very diverse, broad coalition, got people off the sidelines and into the voting booths that dont usually vote. Thats how he did things in that 2008 election like win North Carolina and win indiana even and certainly win michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. I believe the best way to beat donald trump is not to play it, so to speak, safe, but actually to be aspirational and inspirational and to stand up boldly for what we believe in and get those peopleoff the sidelines and then you can win not only michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, but also take back states like florida and win in arizona and georgia. Could an allwhite ticket get enough turnout to beat donald trump . I would never say never, but i do believe that it makes sense to appeal to a broad array of voters out there, democratic voters. I think that whoever the nominee is first of all, im going to support that nominee and do everything i can to make sure sure she or he gets elected. But also, they need to ensure they can appeal to that broad array of people and excite them the way that barack obama was able to do in 2008. I want to talk about what is unfolding now, the u. S. Having attacked Qasem Soleimani, the very high ranking military official in iran and donald trump last night essentially tweeting the advent of war crimes, targeting cultural sites. You come from a state second only to california sends more people to the United States military. If you look at the top five states, california, texas, North Carolina and georgia send the most people to the United States military, states that have high numbers of color who serve disproportionately in the service. What would you say to those people now about the risk their commanderinchief has put them in . Im worried for them. I call san antonio home. San antonio has the moniker military city usa. We have a tremendous number of both active duty and retired military in the city. What i hear over and over from families, families of active duty members, people who have been in the reserves and been deployed is that theyre tired. Their loved ones have been away for years and years, maybe theyre just getting settled back. Theyve come back because of the way weve scaled down our engagement around the world in the last few years, and now to think this reckless president who started off a relationship with iran that barack obama had put in a much better place had stabilized, that hes brought us to the brink of war, that nobody wants, that nobody needs. Today my heart and my mind go out to these families that are very worried about their loved ones having to go back to another war that we dont need. My hope is that this president will have the wherewithal to tamp down this escalation and avoid a war. Julian castro, im glad you were in the race. You had some very important things to say and im glad they were said. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you coming on. Thanks a lot, joy. Next hour, Mike Bloombergs National Campaign chairman will be with us. Stay with us. Will be with us stay with us man whats my safelite story . I spend a lot of time in my truck. Its my livelihood. Rock music man so im not taking any chances when something happens to it. So when my windshield cracked. My friend recommended safelite autoglass. Tech hi, im adrian. Man thanks for coming. Tech oh, no problem. Tech check it out. Man yeah. They came right to me, with Expert Service where i needed it. Thats service i can trust. No matter what im hauling. Right, girl . Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Coming up, how the media sold the 2003 iraq war to the American Public and whether weve learned our lesson. More am joy after the break. So, you bought those good enough paper towels . [daughter laughs] not such a bargain. Theres only one quicker picker upper. Bounty, the quicker picker upper. This is going to be interesting to see if they pull this down. I guess they will. And now goes around the square. There it goes. Three weeks into the invasion of iraq, the famous toppling of saddam husseins statue was heralded as a symbol of victory. What youre seeing here. But the war had only just begun. Good morning and welcome back we found a number of instances of coverage that were not as rigorous. Looking back we wish we had been more aggressive the medias favorable coverage of the war helped george w. Bush cover it. Can trump bet on the same reverence as bushed received . Up to this point fox news have proven to be staunch defenders of whatever it is he wants to do, no matter what. Take a listen to what one of trumps more reliable boosters, Tucker Carlson, had to say friday night. There are an awful lot of people in this world. We capital kill them all. In 2016 donald trump ran on fewer foreign interventions. Probably won because of that promise. But ever since washington, including some around the president , have been committed to ignoring the results of that election and its implication. Washington has wanted war with iran for decades. Theyve been working toward it. They may have finally gotten it. Thats interesting. With me now is eric boler, author and media analyst, carlos c carbello, msnbc political analyst, jennifer ruben, opinion writer for the Washington Post and Tiffany Cross, cofounder of the beat. Maja, one of the things that has emerged in the trump era is this idea that fox news sometimes people forget fox news has been fox news all the time. When george w. Bush was Reading Press releases as if it was news and treating george w. Bush with this great reverence but they werent alone. The media in general treated bush and the war as if it was fundamentally, you know, victorious and fa nominal and amazing. Political leaders all over the world know this. Wars are the great glue, great mobilizer, Great Campaign aid at this late stage. Theyve become unpopular later on. We know in 2003 the premise on which bush waged war on iraq was not questioned. Most of us bought the weapons of mass destruction premise. Here the premise here, its the premise is basically that we have the right to knock off bad guys, threats all over the world, right . And so everyone, you know, especially even on the democratic side were seeing people being extremely careful to couch any criticism in terms of, well, yes, he was a terrible guy and nobody should warrant his death. We really need to question why people find it necessary to say that and how far were moving in our conversation yet again. Yeah. And what happens when a part of the media who tends to believel power, you know, or the journalism world tends to take the official world as the more reliable world. Its not opinion. Its the official world. Theres an advantage, huge advantage government always has when dealing with the press. When it gets disrupted, its weird, right . Heres another person on fox news also saying, i dont know about this. Here is geraldo rivera. Take a listen. I dont know if you heard, but this isnt about his resume of blood and death. It is about what was next. We stop the next attack. It was thats what i think youre missing. According to the secretary of state by what by what credible source can you predict what the next iranian move would be . Secretary of state and american intelligence provided that but theyve been excellent, theyve been excellent. The u. S. Intelligence has been excellent since 2003 when we invaded iraq, disrupted the entire region for no real reason. Dont for a minute start cheering this on. What you have done, what we have done, we have unleashed i will cheer it on. So, this is interesting. For both of you at the table here, first to you, you have geraldo rivera, by what credible source can you predict what iranian the u. S. Intelligence provided the information. This is the same channel where american intelligence were demonized because that same intelligence apparatus said russia invaded our election and helped donald trump get elected. Theyre bad guys when they say that but we believe them without question if they say this. Because they want to already believe iranians are just inherently absolutely. But thats thats sort of human. Look at the argument that theyre having. The argument theyre having is, was there enough credible evidence . Are we quite sure . Theyre not having an argument about whether this was legal. Whether this was constitutional. Whether you know, whether the president of the United States should give an order to knock off a military leader of another country in a third country. Were not arguing about that. Well, thankfully we are. Thats why we have you here. The other thing thats interesting, a guy that tweeted out the other day, a former trump fan who switched against trump that made the point that is important that we in the media cover the maga world as being one big lump of people but there are other factions in it. There are the hyperreligious, hyperevangelicals. They call them evangelicals. I hate to call them at times because theyre not following what evangelical christianity was to be about. Then you have the Tucker Carlson world, which is more about keeping brown people out of the United States, pat buchananites. They dont want foreign wars. Maybe we as media have not covered them in a specific enough place. Part of that camp wants war, part are militaryists and monarchis monarchists. I think they all hate democrats is what unifies them. Are we going to hear this a week from now . If the criticism of trump is loud from the left, that ends all bets. Everybody rallies around trump. He is our leader. He is our king. You cannot touch our guy. But the interesting thing about, you know, leading the the media leading the war to iraq in 2003, i mean, we cant forget, i mean, its been a while, but Washington Post posted 26 editorials in favor of that. We had a news editor saying, the editor of the New York Times specifically used that war to prove the paper did not have the liberal media bias. Specifically used the front page of the new yoNew York Times. It was bad and dangerous and got us into 17 years later and were still talking about iraq. Hopefully, my gosh, that doesnt happen again. Jeff, you write for the Washington Post. Its funny because we all sort of lined up, a lot of us from the left and the right, from liberals to democrats and republicans on donald trump the person. But on this issue, we on the other side of one another on this issue of iraq. I wonder if from your points of view, the media has changed the way it approaches it. Have you changed the way you think about it when the government says, this is a dangerous country that was going to attack us but doesnt prove it . I definitely view the government differently. I have learned from recent events. I wrote a column saying, why the heck should we believe anything mike pompeo says . He was the one said there was no conclusive evidence that the mbs murdered jamal khashoggi. He said we were making progress on north korea. We havent made any progress. They have lied so consistently and so dramatically that, number o one, we have to question everything that comes out of their mouths. I would like to dissent a little bit and say, i dont think we should be looking to fox news to decide whether were having a proper constitutional argument. I think we are. If you look at the Washington Post, if you look at the mainstream outlets, theres a huge discussion going on in our paper, other papers, about whether this is constitutional, about whether this is legal and i think theres much, much more skepticism now than at the onsite of the iraq war. Part is because democrats arent going along. Part of the reason why the media was so enthusiastic about iraq is the democrats were suckered, too. There were very few people who opposed the iraq war. Hillary clinton was in favor of it, joe biden was in favor of it. Whos opposed to it . Just fringe people who were so critical. Nancy pelosi, for one. I think, number one, we have to learn from past history. Number two, there is zero evidence at this point. Theres not some evidence. Theres zero evidence. In fact, theyre already giving conflicting explanations for why this happened. Is this supposed to deter future attacks . Was this because something was imminent . And according to my phone two minutes ago, our troops have now been expelled from iraq. Was that the game plan . I dont think so. I dont think they thought this through at all. You can argue whether its good, bad or indifferent to have the iraqi troops out but that was not the intention of this exerci exercise. So, i think a lot of questions have to be asked. Democrats need to step up and ask that. I dont think theres anything wrong with saying the guy was a coldblooded killer who killed hundreds of americans. That was factual. You want that on the record. That does not affect whether we think this is legal, whether we think this is smart, whether we think we have now set off another, much bloodier, much more dangerous war. Iran is a real power. Has technology, it has a real military. And if we unleash that, we will rue the day when this president started this. I think thats true. Coming back to the media, im going to dissent a little bit from what youre saying, jennifer. This was in the New York Times. The New York Times ultimately had to change a headline that they ran and that Oliver Willis tweeted this out where theres still this technique of reporting what the Trump Administration does and says by simply repeating what they do and say. Trump says he ordered killing of iranian to prevent new attack on americans. If you just read that headline, which most people really do just read, you would get the sense that, oh, my god, he prevented a new attack on americans. Thats why he did it. They ultimately changed to u. S. And iran changed more threats as democrats question timing of strike. The New York Times in 2004 had written in its mea culpa followup articles that called the original ones into question were buried. All these years later they have to flip the headline. They did the leisure wear headline because of this guy accused of war crimes and they did it as if hes a retired military officer. We still have an issue. Tiffany . Yes. Let me put data behind that. Between august 2003 and march 2004 there were more than 140 frontpage stories that helped sell the war to the American People. Just like in vietnam. There was a propaganda effort to push this among the American People. And by contrast, to your point, stories that question the evidence that was pushing this war were frequently buried and frequently on page 1 or 2. Let me also dissent in by saying, when we say this war was sold to the American People, even that narrative centers the American People around the shrinking majority and not the rising majorities. When we say there were not people who questioned the evidence of the war. Thats not so necessarily true. We have to remember the punditry class. There are a lot of people who question the war in absence of hearing that, it was introduced through levity. You had the Dave Chappelle show was on air at the time and he said at that time, look, let me tell you white america, this is what the war looks like to us. He parodied himself as the black george bush. He did a whole episode on how the focus of the war was oil. That resonated with so many people because we did not have Media Outlets speaking to us. Im not suggesting this is something to be humorous about but for those offended by that humor, let me remind you, i attended the white house Correspondents Dinner in 2004. George w. Bush again did not treat this very seriously. They showed a slide show of him looking under the desk. Oh, those weapons of mass destruction have to be somewhere. This takes a full scope. Let me also say, im not here to debate obviously he may have been a bad guy, soleimani, but if were going to talk about the war crimes he committed, as members of the media its imperative to counter that and say, look, the u. S. Have killed countless civilians in iran and iraq. We have the president of the United States threatening to kill civilians in iran. This is not in a way to dismiss other war crimes but there are also this president is actively tweeting about committing war crimes and i think that is, you know, reprehensible as well. Its important to remember this is a president whos pals with the head of saudi arabia, who our Intelligence Service is linked to killing an american resident for the Washington Post, hes pals with putin, so if youre in london and against him youre not safe. Hes friends with the guy who runs the philippines who he himself has killed drug it goes on and on and on. Im going to get carlos in here as well. One thing thats been interesting is one of the ways donald trump was sort of sold and a lot of people both on the left and on the right treated maureen dowd, hillary, at least hes not a warmonger like her. All those people who say, hes not going to get us into a foreign war. Are so upset. What happened to donald trump being sold to the American People as the peace guy . You mentioned earlier one of the big challenges for donald trump is unlike 20 years ago theres an isolationist current within the republican party. Obviously in the Democratic Party as well. Donald trump is someone who has catered to this isolationist wing, who has expressed numerous times he thinks american troops should come back to the United States, that we should leave the middle east to others and this action, whether you agree with it or not, the killing of general soleimani, obviously, contradicts those republicans like Tucker Carlson, who we heard from earlier on your air, and others who do want the United States to withdraw from the world. This is complicated for the president not just because the media have learned from the 2003 iraq experience but also because within his own party, among his own supporters, there are people who are against these types of actions. Rand paul is another obvious outspoken critic of these types of entinterventions. This is a president who needs a unified base if hes going to have a chance at reelection this year. These types of actions could jeopardize that unity among his populous base. I wonder what happens when Laura Ingraham whos out there, pathetic, iranian general, not just regular mourners. Like shes angry the media is not portraying the people mourning soleimani as a bunch of terrorists. Shes angry about that. What happens when her wing of the party goes to war against tuckers wing . As a matter of thauthoritariani, do they put this aside or do the buchananites stay buchananites . Within the evangelical community as well were starting to see a riff as well. That whole coalition is going to have to figure out how much they will tolerate of one another. Masha . Thats why its so important that none of this is questioning his right to do this, right . Its just, you know, theyre questioning his reasoning. But nobody is questioning nobody on that side is questioning his power to do this. And well, i think rand paul is. I think there are people who are principled enough. So, i think that what are they going to do about it . Its interesting to me that you have the ben sasses who have been mute, silent, and taken money that congress appropriated and said were going to use it to build a wall and steal land in texas, they say nothing and pop up like groundhog day and go, whoa, hes fighting those horrible iranians. I dont know that rand paul will do a darn thing. Well, its interesting. Theres going to be a vehicle for it. Kim cain, one of my senators from the great state of commonwealth of virginia is introducing essentially a resolution, piece of legislation that would say he cant do this without congresss thats from Bernie Sanders. And tim kaine, tim kaine, right. And, listen, if rand paul wants to prove he can sign up and get other people as well. That wont in terms of the press, theres still the clinging to this naivety about. Trump. So, yes, were seeing more skepticism now in terms of the reason for this attack than we did in 2003. But he lies about everything, right . Theres still this idea, well, he wouldnt lie about that, fill in the blank, immigration, taxes, everything. Well, hell lie about an inauguration crowd but he would never lie about National Security. He lies about everything. Thats why ive been harping on this for three years. This ridiculous semantics game the press plays not calling him a liar. That could be the headline, trump lies for premise of attack. Youll never see it but thats where we are. Youll never see it. My favorite question is, whats the strategy . I cant believe are asking that. Whats the strategy . There is no strategy, guys. What you see is what you get. Thank you very much. Coming up, 2020 democrats are raising boat loads of cash. Well tell you why that might not even matter. 12. 99 all you can eat now with boneless wings. Only at applebees. Wthats why xfinity hasu made taking your internetself. And tv with you a breeze. Really . Yup. You can transfer your Service Online in about a minute. You can do that . Yeah. And with twohour Service Appointment windows, its all on your schedule. Awesome. So while moving may still come with its share of headaches. No kidding. Were doing all we can to make moving simple, easy, awesome. Go to xfinity. Com moving to get started. We see some very strong examples of especially under these thresholds of basically people being able to buy their way onto the debate stage and onto more prominence. Sure, money has still too much to do with who is able to put their voice out there and, you know, my campaign is just one example. There are a lot of campaigns during this cycle. And across the country. Moments ago i spoke with former housing secretary Julian Castro who became the latest candidate to drop out of the 2020 race for president citing his lack of resources. Candidates released their Fourth Quarter fundraising totals. Bernie sanders raised over 35 million and Pete Buttigieg and joe biden close behind followed by Elizabeth Warren. The combine the fundraising toe totals of those eight candidates is Lieutenant Colonel 404 million. That huge amount of cash, the money raised by eight Democratic Candidates put together is less than the 155 million former mayor Mike Bloomberg has spent on advertisements alone. Thats with bloomberg entering halfway through the Fourth Quarter. Analysts project bloomberg could spend between 300 and 400 million before the super tuesday primaries in early march. And think about this. That is more than president barack obama spent on adverti advertising during the entire 2012 election. Joining me, michael nutter. Thank you for being here. Joy, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Of course. Let me just show you the money. Bloomberg mayor bloomberg has spent so far 107. 3 million. Tom steyer, the other billionaire has spent 64 million and drops from there. Sanders, 9, buttigieg, 8 and yang 5. Is mayor bloomberg attempting to buy the presidency of the United States . No. Mayor bloomberg is trying to get a message out about defeating donald trump, which hes been focused on since 2016. Whether supporting numerous members of the house and eventually helping some candidates to win, so that democrats can take over the house in 2018, as well as introducing or, i would say, reintroducing himself to the American Public. While he was a business person and philanthropist and mayor of new york, its not a given that everyone across the United States of america is actually going to know who Mike Bloomberg is or what his record has been across those three areas that i mentioned. So, i mean, hes spending on ads like everybody else is. So, you know, and, yes, you do buy name i. D. With money. He has an entire Network Named after him, bloomberg network. You talked about him spending id like to have that. Im sure youd like to have that, too. Im not sure thats what i would spend it on, to be blunt. With 107 million, Mike Bloomberg could still help Senate Candidates who are up for reelection in critical states or help Senate Candidates who could flip states like georgia, states like arizona. He could actually be a real player in trying to help the Democratic Party take back the senate. Why doesnt he use his money for that rather than what a lot of people see as a Vanity Campaign . Well, i mean, i think its a whole lot more than that. And i dont think that the one, spending on a mspresident ial ra is a barrier to supporting other candidates up and down the bat local, the house or senate or in local races across the country. Mike has been, i think, very, very generous in that regard and now happens to be running for president. Of course, a significant amount of resources will go to the president ial race. I dont think its automatic there would be lack of support for people who are running for other offices at the state or federal level. The one doesnt automatically lead to the other. Because, of course, he has that much money. Was one of the main drivers of mayor bloomberg getting into the race attempting to stop Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders nominee because of the wealth tax . Mike bloomberg wants to defeat donald trump. Hes been very, very clear about that and has indicated that he will spend the resources not only for his own campaign but to if, for whatever reason things dont work out, to continue the fight to defeat donald trump. That is his focus. That has been his commitment since trump was elected. And, again, i go back to the i think nearly 100 million spent between combined house and senate races to help democrats take over those respective chambers. That work has not stopped. Theres been a commitment on the ground. You know, through the primary season, again, if somehow things dont work out, to continue to spend resources through the general election. Mike bloomberg is focused on defeating donald trump. If the nominee winds up being Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders, will he spend money to help them get elected . I would imagine so. I mean, i dont you know, i tend not to spend other peoples money, but if the focus is, and it is, to defeat donald trump, then i would expect Mike Bloomberg would do whatever it takes to make sure donald trump does not return to the white house on january 20th, 2021. You talked about mayor bloomberg using some of his wealth to get himself known to the American People and record known. Lets talk about that record. You cannot get the democratic nomination without the after africanamerican vote. You cant get it at all without it. There are some black voters that are familiar with bloombergs record have with him. One is on the central park five. Here is mayor bloomberg recently talking about the central park five and here he is. I really have no idea. I read in the paper. Ive been away from government for a long time. I think there was an awful lot of evidence presented at that time that they were involved. There have been questions since then about the quality of that evidence. And so, you know, its ive been away from it for so look, i cant respond because i just dont remember. Its weird for me as somebody who was in new york as a teenager at the time, its hard not to remember the central park five issue. During the lawsuit, once these men were exonerated, mayor bloomberg was mayor. Here is a piece of a daily beast clip talking about the fact that his Administration Spent 6 million fighting a civil lawsuit filed by the five arguing the authorities at the time had good cause and acted in good faith. He was mayor when he fought against giving the segmentsment to these young men who lost their entire childhood because of one of the most traumatic incidents in new york city. Hes a new yorker. How can he say he barely remembers that . Well, you know, obviously, i was not there. Didnt hear the full interview. I think this is one of those situations, joy, where you look at the very, very strong statement that the mayor put out just a few days ago, which im sure you have seen, which cleared up some of the things he said about a week or so ago. Ive been in situations where, you know, in that moment somebody asked you about an incident from 30 years ago. And i think what i was hearing was a person trying to, you know, in an interview, trying to recollect all the different components. The incident happened, the tragedy happened before he was mayor. Then he is mayor. You have an administration, a corporate counsel, the people involved who are then fighting whatever it is theyre fighting. You know, hindsight, as we all know is certainly 20 20. We know a whole lot more today. They were railroaded. There is no question about it. And i think the mayors statement the other day made it very, very clear. I mean, we have another mayor in the race who is having to answer questions about his term. He just finished, mayor Pete Buttigieg. If he can be asked about his time as mayor, its legitimate for im not saying its not a legitimate question. Im saying in the case of mayor pete, he is in office. He just finished. In the case of mayor bloomberg, the tragedy happened in 1989. But he was very much involved that was 30 years ago. But the lawsuit happened during his he was mayor during the lawsuit. Sure. It became, once again, a huge story. Im sure if Something Like that had happened during your time as mayor, youd remember it because its a memorable thing. Let me talk absolutely. Let me talk about another issue. Do you remember some of the components . I think his statement made it very, very clear what his position is. It was a very strong statement the other day, which im sure you saw. I did, indeed. Lets talk about the other issue i think for a lot of new yorkers is relevant to the mayors term here, which is inequality. Which is the idea that, you know, a lot of new yorks neighbors became very gentrified. Lower income, who were poor, could no longer live here. The New York Times reports the living assistance deteriorated under mayor bloombergs watch for the need today for 32 billion to replace broken boilers, and roofs. Mayor bloomberg presided over a time where wealthy new yorkers got a lot and the poor and those who have been here their whole lives were run out of their neighborhoods. How can he sell himself that people of lower income could trust given that . Well, i think when you look at other components of his record, the young mens initiative, focused on black and latino men in particular and some of the challenges and barriers we all know that black men like myself and latinos faced, that was also during his administration. 130 million initiative. 30 million of which he actually paid for himself. And along with city funds and another philanthropist. I think when you look at efforts to improve the quality of life in neighborhoods, the lowering of crime, the deescalation of people being in jail in the first place, cutting murders in half, reducing the number of atrisk youth who were incarcerated outside of the city and a variety of other efforts, you know, new york is a quite unique place. When you look at the socioeconomics of new york, it is very different than philadelphia and a number of other areas. And so thats the city. He did his 12 years. Were now talking about running for president of the United States of america and using all the resources of the government to reverse many of the things that have happened just in the last three years under the current occupy of the white house. Its a very, very different job being president of the United States versus mayor of anywhere. Sure. Very quickly before i let you go, should he more vocally repudiate stop and frisk . The speech at the church was important and significant. He will continue to talk about the lessons learned, the mistakes he made, which i think is important for any elected official to reflect on their past time, acknowledge the things that did not go right, where you made a mistake, and then seek to reverse many of those issues and problems, which is why his criminal Justice Reform package is so important from a national perspective. Mike bloomberg knows he made a mistake, has acknowledged that mistake and now wants to move forward. Every one of us have made mistakes in this office. The question is, what are you going to do to make things better for peoples lives . Mike bloomberg knows how to positively impact the lives of people going forward. And thats why he wants to be president. Michael nutter, thank you so much. Really appreciate you being here today. Thank you. Thank you, joy. Up next, the secretary of state is blanketing the air waves trying to tell the United States on the air strikes in iran. Its a tough sell. More when we come back. Sell. More when we come back lets be honest, every Insurance Company says they can save you these. In fact, if you had a dollar for every time they said it, youd have a lot of dollars. Which makes it hard to believe, especially coming from a talking lizard. Pip, pip, cheerio look, all i, dennis quaid, know is that esurance is built to save you dollars without skimping on service. And when they save, you save. The only way to know how much is to get a quote. 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Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Eliquis, the number one cardiologistprescribed blood thinner. Ask your doctor if eliquis is whats next for you. Does assassinating Qasem Soleimani watching them actively build out for what was going to be a significant attack, thats what we believed and we made the right decision. There was unanimity we were making the right decision that day. Senior leaders who had access to all intelligence, there was no skepticism. Why is the president threatening iran with war crimes . Well be inside the system. We do expect retaliations against american citizens now, correct . Chuck, youre concentrating on the second and the moment. It may be theres a little noise in the interim that iranians choose to make noise. Can you say confidently america is safe today . Absolutely. Insisting americans are now safer. But theres still no direct answer as to why, then, they urged americans to leave iraq immediately or why donald trump is threatening to attack 52 iranian sites if they retaliate for the assassination of their top commander. Joining me joe madison and former congressman Carlos Curbelo is also back withme. Jennifer, you wrote a piece about why lying about a strike would be a big deal and it seems like a big deal. Heres mike pompeo one more time, your piece which people should read, talking about the intelligence analysis theyre claiming gave them the backing to do what they did. Were all of the president s National Security advisers in full agreement that Qasem Soleimani needed to be killed . Yes. Complete agreement across the cabinet . It was a collective decision. It was intelligence analysis that doing nothing created far more risk than the actual but doing nothing isnt the same as saying specifically Qasem Soleimani needed to be killed . Margaret, there was unanimity we were making the right decision that day. Is there any reason to believe him, im sorry, jennifer ruben, to be blunt . Absolutely not. At least during the iraq war they all believed and articulated what their reason was. It was wrong. They had something to point to. There is nothing to point to. In fact, all of the hemming and hawing suggests this was not imminent. This was simply a war of choice. Thats what the iraq war was, a war of choice. Theres one other big problem for them. That is that the Iraqi Parliament just voted to kick all our troops out of iraq. That was not something these people planned for. And if you take their theory of the case strongly, this is a disaster because iran is going to fill in there like, you know, russian water to fill the void that we leave. So, if, in fact, this is the first response, which is we get kicked out of iraq, we can already consider this, according to the administrations own thinking, a disaster. I mean, i wonder why iran and iraq is so close. Thats right, we invaded iraq. Now the shiite, the actual majority, is now in charge and theyre closer to iran. We did that. Lets go to joe madison on this. Heres marco rubio who can always be counted on to come forward and be unbrave because, of course, supporting it fully, whatever it is that donald trump wants to do, that is his prime directive. Here is marco rubio defending his idea of imminent threat, for which there is no way to prove. A lot of people are concerned and want to know, and youre in a position to, perhaps, shed some light here. What was the imminent threat . Thats the language the administration is using, to americans . Yeah. When you gather information like this, its highly sensitive. It cannot be disclosed at this time without also putting at danger our sources, our methods, losing access to future intelligence of this kind. Heres the bottom line. If the president of the United States is presented with information that there is an imminent and credible threat that could cost the lives of not a couple hundred, potentially hundreds if not thousands of american servicemen, women and personnel in the region, the president has an obligation to act. Joe . Go on. Im sorry. I was simply saying that what he is not saying and what the secretary of state is not saying, and i think no one would disagree with me, and that is that i would almost guarantee you that the president was presented with several options. I can almost guarantee you that. And he chose the option of assassinati assassination. And this is, quite honestly, an extension of what he said during the campaign. I could shoot somebody in the middle of fifth avenue and still not lose supporters. The reality is, he could order an assassination of a Government Official and his bashgs i guarantee you on monday morning, tomorrow morning, and all day on talk radio, ill stay in my wheelhouse, will be encouraging him to hold fast with this. The reality is that what upsets me the most and should upset all of us, and senator rubio among others, that he would speak or the secretary of state would speak to the russians before you even go to, lets say, the gang of eight, which are republicans and democrats. So, the reality is that the president had options and he pulled the trigger on assassination. Carlos curbelo, youre a former member of congress. This is a president who gave away real secrets to the Russian Foreign minister and the top spy from russia inside the oval office. Invited them inside with no interpreter and gave them whatever they wanted. This is a guy who keeps no secrets. He calls our own Intelligence Service trying to overthrow him. This is putting the power of assassination into the hands of this president who even marco rubio said was unfit to hold office during the 2016 election. Your thoughts . Reglretgrettably, joy, this president who doesnt understand or doesnt care for the balance or the separation of powers. Previous republicans, republicans and democrats would communicate frequently with congressional leaders, make sure everyone is on the same page at least as a courtesy to make sure they understand whats going to happen and they can respond. And congress has a major role in all of this because they fund all of these operations. So the president , again, has shown he does not have respect for our institutions of government when it comes to communicating this type of important information. I will say listening to chuck todd and other journalists scrutinize and question the secretary of state this morning, it is obvious the media has learned its lesson. Mike pompeo is expressing a theory that our world is safer. I hope hes right. I want us to be safer. That would be a good thing. But that has to be proven over time. I understand they cant answer every question today about Sensitive Information but over time those journalists have to continue asking those questions and the administration has to answer them. Let me play you one more sound bite. Mike pompeo on the question now that donald trump has taken this power into his hands whether other people in this administration in iran are targets. Take a listen. Very effective at this. Why do you think this will make them back down . Isnt this such a threat to iranian pride to have one of their most powerful leaders killed . Does this force Qasem Soleimani killed hundreds of americans. To take a terrorist off the battlefield does not increase the risk of terror. Does this mean other iranian leaders are u. S. Potential targets . Were going to do everything required to keep the American People safe. Carlos curbelo, if you were still in congress would you vote on the resolution put forward, Bernie Sanders is behind it, that forbids this president from waging war against iran now that his secretary of state refuses to discount the idea that other members of a Foreign Government, of a sovereign foreign country, could be targets of assassination . What i would do, joy, is support a new authorized authorization for use of military force. This president , the previous president barack obama, george w. Bush before him, used authority from legislation passed in 2001 and you would pass another aumf, authorization to use military force . Aumf to address irans actions in the region. They used the last one, right . Lets lacking you know how they used the last one, right . Thats why these aumfs have to be drafted in a very limited way. You do know who the president is, right . Okay, let me go. Carlos curbelo, i have to let you go. Well tell you who won the week. Free shipping. You get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, ill take that. Wait honey, no. When you want it. You get a delivery experience you can always count on. You get your perfect find at a price to match, on your own schedule. You get fast and Free Shipping on the things that make your home feel like you. Thats what you get when youve got wayfair. So shop now its not getting in my way. . I had enough joint pain, swelling, tenderness. Much better. My psoriasis, clearer. Cosentyx works on all of this. Four years and counting. So watch out. I got this watch me. Real people with active Psoriatic Arthritis are feeling real relief with cosentyx. Cosentyx is a different kind of targeted biologic. It treats the multiple symptoms of Psoriatic Arthritis to help you look and feel better. It even helps stop further joint damage. Dont use if youre allergic to cosentyx. Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability. To fight them may occur. Tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, if your inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen. Or if youve had a vaccine, or plan to. Serious allergic reactions may occur. I just look and feel better. I got real relief with cosentyx. Watch me feel real relief. Ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. Now what youve been waiting for, even in this week, who won the week . My panel is joe madison, jennifer rubin, and joining us, Tiffany Cross. Jennifer rubin, who won the week . John lewis, a giant in the house and in the Civil Rights Movement tragically announced he had been diagnosed with stage iv pancreatic cancer. But as is his style, he faced this bravely, he faced this with dignity, saying he had never quite faced a fight like this but that he was prepared to fight. Hes a giant. We just appreciated and extol his record, take this as a reminder that individuals matter, individuals matter in civil rights and in the United States congress. Absolutely, an absolute hero, he always wins the week. Joe madison, who won the week . Im going to give it to 11,000 people who were pardoned for low level marijuana crimes in the state of illinois. And now i hope that theyve been pardoned that their records can be expunged and that they can also have the right to vote. And that would be my winner of the week. But i would also agree that the name of Edmond Pettus ought to be taken off the bridge and john lew lewis name should be put on it. Hear, hear. If your going to allow people to sell weed legally you cant keep people locked up and did the very same thing. Tiffany cross . Julian castro won the week. He ran an amazing campaign. People said he was ahead of his time. No, we were behind the times. He was the first out with the flint, michigan plan. He had a black Woman Campaign manager, there have been very few, Donna Brazile was the first time. If we had seen him campaigning in texas, nevada, the landscape of the Democratic Candidates would look better. Bravo to you, Julian Castro, your presence and your voice will be missed sorely on the campaign trail. The weird thing, we didnt get the polls in today, but if you look at the polling in iowa and New Hampshire, literally three white male candidates are sitting at the top and everyone who is a woman or person of color is way down below, it is a weird choice being made by Democratic Party voters at least in those early states and in polling. Its odd. 93 and 94 white, respectively, in those they dont states. Its amazing, really bizarre. My who won the week pick this week is somebody who spoke absolute truth. I dont even watch nfl football anymore but a sportscaster who spoke to and for the world when he described the state of our nation by describing the state of Dallas Cowboys fandom. Take a listen. This season is a perfect metaphor for life in america now. No matter how bad the cowboys are, how much they disappoint, the promises they dont keep, the embarrassing performances game after game, they apparently do just enough so the loyalty of the cowboys fan never wavers. No matter how many outrageous claims to greatness the man in charge will make, so many he appears to be dilutielusional a times, the lies they tell, the questions they refuse to answer, the laws and rules they break, the incompetent people they hire only to be fired, its never their fault. The republican minions and spokespeople are out there trying to pretend an imminent attack on the United States led us into war. Its so refreshing to see somebody say it plain. Amen, dale hanson. You guys are great. I dont think weve had you on, joe, i dont know if this is your debut, but come back often. And Tiffany Cross for you. He does radio, he doesnt have time, but well have him come back. Any day for you, joy. I appreciate you guys. More after the break. Appreciats more after the break do you have concerns about mild memory loss related to aging . Prevagen is the number one pharmacistrecommended memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. And with the sXfinity Stream app, screen is your big screen. Which is free with your service, you can take a spin through on demand shows, or stream live tv. Download your dvrd shows and movies on the fly. Even record from right where you are. Whether youre travelling around the country or around the house, keep what you watch with you. Download the Xfinity Stream app and watch all the shows you love. That is our show for today. Thanks so much for watching. A. M. Joy will be back next sunday. Alex witt, my friend, is next. Lots of big news today, my friend, see you next weekend. Welcome to msnbc World Headquarters in new york. Welcome, everyone, to weekends with alex witt. We begin with breaking news as joy said, near pittsburgh, where at least five people are dead, dozens more hurt after a monstrous crash on the pennsylvania turnpike early this morning. A tour bus, two tractor trailers, several cars, all involved in this wreck. It happened near point pleasant, pennsylvania, a bit southeast of pittsburgh. An 86mile stretch of the turnpike has been shut down to traffic while crews are looking into what precisely caused this crash. Joining me on the phone, pennsylvania turnpike spokesman carl defebo. Carl, is it true, 86 miles of this turnpike on a very busy day have been shut down to investigate . Absolutely, closed right now because of this horrific crash. Yeah, we expect thats going to be closed most of the day today as state Police Conduct a thorough investigation of what happened here. Okay. I said point pleasant, it is mt. Pleasant. Mt. Pleasant, thats correct. So what happened, to the best of your knowledge at this point . What you said is exactly what we know. The number of vehicles, two tractor trailers, a tour bus that slipped on its side, and a passenger vehicle. What events led to the crash, we just dont know. That will be certainly