Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20191006

Legal teams providing us this new information today, the president who has criticized the credibility and challenged the credibility of whistleblower one would now arguably have to do that for another official. And perhaps still more than that who are also providing information that relates to the ukraine call that has gotten so much attention. So really what stands out here is that the courage, if you want to put it in those terms of whistleblower one has perhaps opened the door to other officials who have what we are told is more direct knowledge coming forward as well. Again, not a second complaint, but by virtue of dealing with michael atkinson, the second individual and perhaps others have the same Legal Protections as whistleblowers. So, again, this fills out and potentially corroborates the account of the first whistleblower and would make it arguably harder for the white house and the president particular to challenge the credibility of that whistleblower. Remember, the president said that he thought whistleblower one had some kind of partisan bias. Right. Kelly, let me ask you, do we know who these whistleblowers are exactly . We dont. We do not. What we know is that these would be officials who were working in the government and would have reported to an Intelligence Community Inspector General which suggests theyre from that part of the government. But inherent in the whistleblower law is the protection of their identities and their job descriptions and so forth. So we dont have that information. Certainly the legal team does, and part of where they have hesitated to say much publicly and have been, in fact, even the difference between multiple and second raises questions about who are these people and where do they work . That is all meant to be protected by the government. And so kelly when the president calls out about this individual, naming, identifying, things related to employment are all supposed to be protected as secret. Kelly, let me ask you one more question before i let you go. You brought it up in terms of multiple versus the second whistleblower. The statement put out by the Attorney Says they are representing, quote, multiple whistleblowers. And yet were talking about a second whistleblower who has come forward. Is there any indication that by use of the word multiple they are signaling that it is more than two whistleblowers we could be talking about right now . Ive been working that angle this morning, because that is a question that i think requires more clarity. Because multiple to me suggests that it could go beyond two, and i have repeatedly worked at that this morning and really sort of implored the legal team to be more specific if they can be for the sake of the public having a fair understanding of this. So certainly there is a second. If there goes beyond that, that would fall under the use of multiple by the legal team. Two could be multiple. I think were safest to say theres a second individual willing to be viewed in that category, but also we know that the Inspector General would have spoken to multiple officials to seek corroboration of the first whistleblower complaint. So i dont have a solid clear answer on that, and weve been trying to get it. So that if people have a question about that, the attorneys say multiple. That at least means a second. Jonathan . Kelly odonnell, white house correspondent, thank you very much for updating us. Republicans have been struggling to defend donald trump over his dealings with ukraine. Case in point, in an interview with the wall street journal on friday senator ron johnson said in august a u. S. Diplomat told him that donald trump was withholding nearly 400 million in aide to ukraine until the ukrainian president vowed to investigate matters related to the election. He also said the president denied it. Senator johnson just had an amazing exchange with chuck todd on meet the press where it seems like he was doing his level best to make donald trump happy. Take a look. I had my third letter into the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community asking them to just confirm are you investigating those leaks peter strzok talked about . I have no idea why thats a setup. Its relevant to this point. Why a fox news conspiracy propaganda stuff is popping up on here, i have no idea. That is exactly senator, im asking about this is underlining why President Trump is upset and why his supporter are upset at news media. This is not about the media. Senator johnson. Senator johnson, please. Can we please answer the question that i asked you instead of trying to make donald trump feel better here that youre not criticizing him . Im not. Im trying to ask you a simple question of what made you wince . What is im asking a simple question about you clearly were upset that somehow there was an implication that military aid was being frozen because the president wanted an investigation. Why did you wince . Because i didnt want those connected. And i wanted i was supporting the aid as is senator muff if i a murphy as is everyone. When i asked the president about that, he denied it. He adamantly denied it. He said id never do that. So that is the piece of the puzzle im here to report today. Joining me now is congressman from california, a member of the House Oversight committee. Thank you for being on the show. I dont know if you got a chance to see the entire meet the press interview with senator johnson but we did play just now a good chunk of that interview. Give me your reaction to what you just heard from senator johnson. Jonathan, its really shocking, especially now that we have a second whistleblower. We have text evidence of the president s wrong doing. And you have the president going on National Television asking foreign leaders to investigate his opponents. The president of the United States is calling for the impeachment of senator mitt romney, and yet, you dont have senator mitt romney willing to call for impeachment inquiry against the president who has abused his office. I guess my question is when are we going to have even one senator or a couple members of the house step up and say this is an abuse, we need to look into it. Congressman, why do you think we just witnessed that Fiery Exchange between senator johnson and chuck todd and why do you think no republican is willing to step forward and say that what is happening in the white house from the president is wrong . Because im old enough to remember a time when these very things that weve been talking about since at least the revelations of the july 25th phone call, that republicans would have been breathing fire on the president if that president had been a democrat. Of course they would have. But they are concerned about a president ial tweet directed at them. Thats why the president shot that tweet against mitt romney. Hes sending a signal to everyone in the house, everyone in the senate. If you speak up against me, if you even go near calling for an impeachment inquiry, then im going to come after you and the reality is theyre concerned about their seats. They know that when justin amash spoke out the next day his numbers were under water in a republican primary. They know when this president went and tweeted against mark sanford at 4 00 p. M. Mark sanford lost his election. The next day the president is in the caucus asking how is my friend mark sanford doing . Theyre afraid. Theyre afraid for their political survival if they take on this president in public. Congressman, what impact do you think now that we know that there is a second whistleblower . What impact do you think that will have either on republicans on republicans in general on the hill, but also on the ongoing impeachment inquiry . Well, jonathan, in candor, im not sure if its going to have impact on the republicans. The facts arent in dispute. I dont know what more it will take than the president of the United States going on National Television asking china and ukraine to inve gait his political rivals. Most republicans in private know this is wrong. What i do think this will do is lessen the attacks of the president on the whistleblower, lessen his ability to go after someone. I just want to applaud the extraordinary courage of these whistleblowers who are standing up for the rule of law against some of the most powerful men in the world. Well, lets stick to that in terms of whistleblowers. And the president is attacking was attacking the first whistleblower. I can imagine that he will be attacking the second whistleblower. But what would you say to other people who could potentially be whistleblowers in this moment . Because weve heard people on our air talking about the fact that these whistleblowers now have targets on their backs whether its tweets from the president and their personal safety, and that might send a chill through anyone who might consider stepping forward with information that they have. Youre sitting on the Oversight Committee. Youre a member of congress. What would you say to a whistleblower who might be contemplating coming forward . I would say youre true patriots. You are standing up to preserve our democracy. Frankly, youre doing what congress has been unable to do. Weve been trying to subpoena the administration and the executive branch has been stone walling, and youre helping stand up for the truth and getting information out to the American People and preserving democracy. And i understand that its risky. Were going to do everything we can to protect you. But i just salute your courage for caring so much about our democracy and putting a check on the executive branch. Congressman, let me ask you one more question before i let you go. Youre on the House Oversight committee. Its what i call the impeachment six committees who is looking at potential articles of impeachment. Can you tell me or explain if at all if there is any connection . These whistleblower complaints, do they have any impact on your work on the Oversight Committee as part of the impeachment inquiry . Yes, they do. They are part of our effort to build a case about exactly what happened with the president calling ukraine and asking for political dirt. We have to see who all was involved. Was there a conspiracy . And then were going to take that information and pass it on to the Judiciary Committee. We also need to understand was there a coverup in not getting that whistleblower complaint to congress and our committee is looking into why that information wasnt transferred. Congressman, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. Let me turn now to congresswoman maxine waters. Thank you for getting up early to be with us. Im delighted to be with you. I need to get your reaction to several things weve been talking act this morning. First, your reaction to the revelation that the second whistleblower has come forward . Well, you know, i fully expect that theres going to be more, and i believe that as time goes on in these investigations, more members of the state department in particular are going to come forward. And i think when the second one comes forward, that will inspire the third one and on and on and on. And i just would like to say to these whistleblowers and potential whistleblowers, you are the patriots. Youre the ones who care about this country. Some of you are ready for retirement and you should think about that. Some are patriotic enough to say that even if this means their job, theyre going to do it because they have this countrys interest at heart. And they know that this president is dangerous. He is deplorable, and this president has already defined himself. We know about the telephone call. We know a lot about this president. And so i believe that they know that he must be impeached. So i am perfectly comfortable expecting more and more whistleblowers to come forth. Anyone who has been paying attention to this presidency and you in particular know that you have been calling for the impeachment of the president since almost minute one. And now here we are with a formal impeachment inquiry underway. Youre on the House Financial Services committee. You are the chairman of the white House Financial Services committee. Can you thats right. Can you talk about how the july 25th phone call and the whistleblowers complaint about that phone call with the ukrainian president , how if at all, that plays into your work as a chairman of one of the impeachment six committees in terms of looking at articles of impeachment against the president . Yes. Thank you. As you know, all six committees have been involved in investigating various aspects of what we have learned about this president. And so we will all come together with nancy pelosi and each one of us may have something that we think is very, very strong. Very important to be in an impeachment resolution. We will put this information on the table. We will does it, and, of course, this telephone call as nancy pelosi has said will play an important part. It will be an important focus on what were going to do. We may have two or three things more added or not. We dont know at this point, but we will get together and when we come to some conclusions about what we think should go into the impeachment resolution, we will turn it over to the Judiciary Committee and then theyll take up the resolution. Im going to ask you about the Judiciary Committee and the timing of all this. Let me stick to your ongoing calls for the impeachment of President Trump. One thing you said think it was earlier in the week last week where you said not only should the president be impeached and removed from office and put in jail, but you said he should be put in solitary confinement. Well, thats not being considered. As a matter of fact, you know as you said, ive been early on in talking about this president , his danger, his how dishonorable he is. Ive created this discussion. Ive kept it going, because he identified himself early on. He defined himself. And i believe that in the final analysis that there are more people who care about the security of this country than the president. The president is all about himself. Now, if you want to know something, i am disgusted with those spineless members of the senate who dont have the guts to stand up for this country. Many of them have defined themselves as patriotic. Theyre not patriotic. They are spinalless and theyre not willing to step up and do what needs to be done in recognizing the danger of this president. Theyre willing to harm our country, and so i want all of the American Population to understand who is in that senate, what theyre doing, whether or not they want them to remain there if, in fact, they dont come forward. Recognizing all this president has done. And the information thats going to be brought forth about him. Not only on this telephone call but maybe on a number of other things. We have seen muellers report. We know that mueller identified 10 things that really could be considered as obstruction of justice. Ive always believed there was collusion with putin and the kremlin. We also know that this president has never denounced putin. As a matter of fact, hes been in secret meetings with him. Nobody knows what they have talked about. Why is it hes embraced putin and he feels as if putin is his friend when putin hates the United States of america . Hes our enemy. Hed like to destroy the United States of america. And so were sitting at a time in the history of this country where were in real danger with the president not only has defined himself in all these ways but even alluding to the possibility of a civil war. Wake up, america. Understand the danger. Patriots, step forward. This is what ive been about for months, for almost two years saying that something had to be done. Impeachment is very important. And ill continue to fight as long as i have breath to make sure that this president does not remain in this presidency. Congresswoman, let me bring you back to those republicans who you just said a moment ago were, quote, spineless republicans. When i interviewed you for my pod cost, you mentioned you came from the house floor and a republican member said dont give up, keep going, get him. Im paraphrasing what you said he said to you. Why dont you think republicans who all see whats happening and know that whats happening is bad, its wrong for the country, why wont they show the political courage or just courage to step forward and just and not just criticize the president but say that he is wrong . Because it is objectively true that the what the president has done has been a violation of his oath of office. Absolutely. And i will reiterate, they are spineless. I dont know how they look their children and their wives, their community in the face coming to work in the United States senate knowing what they know, seeing what they see, and i cant imagine how anybody who has had the nerve and the audacity to run for a United States senate seat and they cant stand up to this lying dishonorable president. And i tell you, they may never have experienced anything like him before. They may be frightened about him. They may be frightened about losing their jobs, but thats not good enough excuse. They dont deserve to be elected by anything and anybody and serve this country if they have that kind of fear. If you have that kind of fear, youre not a good representative. You dont know what it takes to make good public policy. You dont stand up for the security of this country. And so i have no respect for any senator, any member of congress, who is not willing to put themselves on the line for this country. And understand that our security is at stake. Congresswoman max scene waters, thank you very much for being on the show. Youre welcome. Thank you very much for having me on. Thank you. Joining me now is a former pentagon official and professor at the Georgetown University law center and msnbc contributor and correspondent at politico. This has been quite the morning rosa, since youre sitting here, ill start with you. Give me your reaction both to the news of the second whistleblower well, start with that. Your reaction to the fact that a second whistleblower stepped forward. No surprise. Im sure there are more people out there, and i actually think heres a really important point that i want to make. I worked in the u. S. Government twice at the state department and at the defense department. President trump only does whats in his selfinterest, but there are lots and lots of americans who try to do whats in the countrys selfinterest, and i think these whistleblowers are in that group. There is a space still in american politics and in this country where people care about the country more than party, more than getting rich, more than getting famous. And thats where these whistleblowers are coming from. And i think thats so important that we not lose sight of that. There are thousands of men and women in our government who go to work each day and theyre not getting up and saying how can i elect a democrat or how can i help President Trump . Theyre getting up each day and saying i care about this country. Im willing to take some risks for this country and thats what theyre doing. I think well see a lot more whistleblowers. Let me ask you one more question before i bring in natasha. Im glad you brought that up. Talk about the career people who are working in the state department and the defense department. Weve been talking about political appointees who come in and go out with administrations but you have a whole career staff. The vast majority of people who work in our government are. The president denigrates them as the deep state, but thats not no. No. And i served as a political appointee in the obama administration. One of the things i loved about working in the United States department of defense, the career people, i had no idea who they voted for. Because it didnt matter. It wasnt what was important. Day in, day out, we were working for the same thing which is the United States of america. And those are yes, there are partisan hacks in every executive office building, of course there are, but most people are not like that. And i think one of the things this president has done is hes so warped everyones view because he cant imagine someone acting out of genuine commitment to the country and to a set of principles, he cant imagine it so he thinks no one else can do it. Hes trying to persuade the rest of the country thats what everyone is like. Its not. Its not. Right. Natasha, let me bring you in and get your reaction to the news that there is a second whistleblower who stepped forward. Yeah. Jonathan, my first reaction is they cant use the heres complaint anymore. This whistleblower apparently has firsthand knowledge of the call that the president had with zielinski on july 25th. If they could use the hear say defense anyway. I think this is going to change calculations on the hill. Theyre waiting to have direct testimony from the first whistleblower. Now i imagine theyre also going to want to bring the second whistleblower in. The statement that was put out by the attorneys here says that there are multiple whistleblowers that theyre representing which is interesting as well. Whether or not theyre just saying theres two or whether theres more remains to be seen. I think this does put a lot of pressure on the white house now. Because clearly theyve had a problem internally with getting people on board with what the president has been doing which is not only making these phone calls as we learn to others asking for political favors, but also hiding those calls in a secret conserver where the phone calls are not ever placed in previous administrations that didnt have to do with code word, compartmented intelligence matters. So i think that the more we see these whistleblowers coming forward, exactly as rosa said, there may be more. Well, i mean, as kelly o reported earlier, shes trying to run down whether multiple whistleblowers means the two that theyre remitting or even more. But let me ask you, natasha, do you have any reporting on who these whistleblowers are who they potentially might be . We have some informed guesses. But obviously were very reluctant to put any kind of information out there. It might have a Chilling Effect on other whistleblowers and could their safety in jeopardy. Whereas every news room, i think has some good guesses especially because there are only a certain numb of people detailed to the National Security counsel at any moment, i think every news outlet is being careful about how they identify these folks. Rosa, let me get your reaction to that. Just the safety element here of who these people are and the fact as natasha said, were talking about a very small universe of people. Yeah. Yeah. Its not 500 people or 5,000 people who are listening in on those calls. Its anywhere between five or six to maybe 20 or so people, and its not that difficult for reporters to figure out who the 20 people are likely to be. They may vary depending on the subject matter. I think we live in a Political Climate where it is unfortunately reasonable and realistic for people to be worried not only about their career, not only about losing every penny they have trying to defend frivolous lawsuits brought by supporters of President Trump but also to worry about their personal safety and that of their families. I think everyone, myself, you, natasha, who goes out and says things critical of the administration has gotten Death Threats and theyre silly until theyre serious, until you get somebody going to comet pizza with a weapon because he believes crazy conspiracy theories. Theres a reason we have laws to protect whistleblowers. Usually its just against career retaliation, and these people are taking real risks when they come out here. Today i think their fear for personal safety is one they need to take seriously. And im glad that many Media Outlets are being cautious about giving out details. Natasha, in the a little bit of time we have left, you are our National Security correspondent at politico. Having read the whistleblowers complaint, are there were there things in it that were not red flags but were maybe bread crumbs for things to come . Are there things that youre paying attention to that the rest of us are not paying attention to because just on its face the whistleblower complaint is revealing . Yeah. So i think the first kind of initial reaction that we had to the complaint reading it as National Security reporter of politico was theyre putting these calls into a server, into a system that is used for the most secret conversations that the president is having. And the most secret matters in National Security issues that usually would be concealed by the white house for good reason from certain people. But when we first saw that we said okay, is it happening more than just with this ukraine call . Is it happening with other World Leaders . And as weve seen, more and more as come out about the extent to which theyre concealing these conversations the president has been having. For example, with xi jinping, he brought up the biden issue in june and they put the call into the server. One of the things were watching for here is who is going to be involved in this . Who has been involved in this . Who is going to be perhaps called to the hill on the National Security side. There were lawyers tasked with putting this information in the top secret servers. Were they abusing the system and how many people were kind of helping the president to cover these things up . I think thats the big question were hoping to answer. And with that, well leave it there. Thank you for being here. Senator and president ial candidate cory booker joins me next to respond to this this mornings breaking news. More a. M. Joy after the break. Strength of a lioness tough as a knot rocking the stage and we never gonna stop all strength, no sweat. Just in case you forgot all strength. No sweat secret. All strength. No sweat. Senator what does happen in the senate if the senate gets through with the inquiry and decides they are going to impeach President Trump . Were required to take it up and well follow the senate rules. Its a senate rule related to impeachment that would take 67 votes to change. I would have no choice but to take it up. How long you are on it is a whole different matter, but i would have no choice but to take it up. Based on a senate rule on impeachment. On monday Mitch Mcconnell admitted hell have to follow the rules if the house votes to impeach donald trump. In his new campaign ad on facebook, the Senate Majority leader makes it clear trump is safe as long as mcconnell is in office. The clutches of a left wing mob they finally convinced her to impeach the president. All of you know your constitution. When the impeachment stops is when the Senate Majority with me as majority leader. Joining me now to discuss is senator and democratic president ial candidate cory booker. Thank you for being on the show. Jonathan, its good to be with you this morning. So weve been talking about this one particular thing all morning. Its the interview of senator ron johnson of wisconsin on meet the press with moderator chuck todd. I want to play it again and then get your reaction on the other side. Take a listen. I have my third letter into the Inspector General asking to confirm confirm are you investigating these leaks peter strzok talked about i have no idea why its relevant to this point. Why a fox news conspiracy propaganda stuff is popping up on here i have no idea. I have no idea why were going here. Senator, im asking about this is underlying why President Trump is upset and why his supporters are upset at the news media. This is not about the media. Senator johnson. Senator johnson, please. Can we please answer the question that i asked you instead of trying to make donald trump feel better here that youre not criticizing him . Im not. Im trying to lay the ground work im trying to ask you a simple question of what made you wince . What is im asking a simple question about you clearly were upset that somehow there was an implication that military aid was being frozen yes. Because the president wanted an investigation. Why did you wince . Because i didnt want those connected and i wanted i was supporting the aid as is senator murphy and everybody that went to that initial inauguration. But heres the salient point of why i came forward. When i asked the president about that, he adamantly denied it. He angerly denied it. He said id never do that. Thats the piece of the puzzle im here to report today. Senator booker, your reaction to senator johnson, what he said to chuck todd . Look, everybody has got to have a line. Where is your line this president will cross that will make you not be a partisan but a patriot . This is a president that clearly to me now has used this office for his own personal gain and more information that comes out, more whistleblowers come forward, more facts come forward, where is your line . And i think every republican is going to have to ask themselves, because as the story is evolving, were seeing more and more atrocious offensive behavior of this president of his oath to uphold the constitution. So i think that theres going to be a lot of discomfort for many of my republican colleagues as the truth continues to come out. Well, i mean, i hear what youre saying in terms of discomfort. But we have seen and read and listened and watched a lot of things that under normal circumstances should have everyone in sort of fits and spasms because of the discomfort. Former senator jeff flake recently said that if the senate had to vote by secret ballot, 35 republican senators would vote to convict the president , remove him from office. On friday the wall street journal had the story about senator johnson that confronting President Trump about the holdup of aid to ukraine for personal political gain. And then we see him come on meet the press and do a sort of pod person conversion spouting off conspiracy theories. Is there i mean, you say where is the line . Im wondering the fact that there is no line. And if Mitch Mcconnell is out there saying that as long as im Senate Majority leader, President Trump will stay in office, are we in a situation here as chuck todd said on his meet the prez daily, where were in a National Emergency . We clearly are in a crisis in our nation. When you people like Mitch Mcconnell and others saying their partisanship is going to rule on this and not their loyalty to this nation. This president on its face has betrayed his country by putting his interest ahead of National Security interest and was doing things that youre right, senator johnson and others, i serve with him on the Foreign Relations committee, were up in arms about that these resources were not getting to the ukraine when weve been there. Weve visited that country. And have seen the urgent crisis theyre facing, the life or death attacks that the russians are perpetrating. For this president to hold that up, its outrageous. And so, again, this is all coming to a head. What were going to see whether people have courage and put their Country First or whether theyre going to fall into partisan ranks. At the end of the day, begin to eviscerate the very laws and ideals of our country, begin to erode the values and the morals that have driven this nation. That we have laws and that no one is above the laws that we have norms of behavior that a president shouldnt call norms of behavior ultimately a president should serve the countrys interest. The office is not theirs. The office belongs to the people, and this president by everything he said in his own words has violated those ideals. Those rules. Has violated that oath of office that he put forward. Senator, let me get your reaction to the big news breaking news today. And that is the revelation that a second whistleblower has come forward. Whats your reaction to that . My reaction is what ive said from the beginning. This is why the process is important. Because we saw from the first whistleblower complaint a tremendous amount of evidence that there were multiple other people involved. And, therefore, implicated. And i am confident that others will come forward and will tell the truth. That are not willing to blindly follow this president into potentially illegal activity. And so heres another whistleblower showing the patriotism and duty and telling the truth as they know it. There will likely be more and will continue as this investigation continues. I think to paint a pretty damning picture of a president who has betrayed his us a. Senator rubio recently said he thought the president was joking when he called on china to investigate Vice President biden if memory serves and now were getting news that senator roy blunt also said that either the president was joking or we shouldnt take him seriously. The president wasnt joking. If your mind was the president joking . No. Look, i dont know if this is some of my republican colleagues going through the many stages of grief that they know that this in many ways could be the end of this presidency and now theyre in that stage of denial. This is a president who stood before the American People like he did during the campaign when he invited the russians to illegally hack Hillary Clintons servers. Hes now standing yet again and calling for foreign interference in our elections. What standard hes setting here literally is going to erode the very foundations of our democracy, this idea that Foreign Countries thats been warned about why past president s that Foreign Countries should begin to further engage and involve themselves in our elections. What this president is doing is a betrayal of that office, of the ideals of this country that our democracy is sacrosank by inviting foreign powers to undermine our democracy is a very serious thing. And it is not a joke. Senator, if the house votes out articles of impeachment and a trial is then held in the senate, you will be there as part of the quote, unquote, jury because you would have to then vote. What question would you most want to ask the president or at least the president s lawyers in a trial . Look, im very much looking forward to the evidence coming out. Right now we have implications for the department of justice and the attorney general. Implications that the state department was playing roles in this from the ambassador recalled all the way up to the secretary of state himself has been implicated. There are many witnesses to what i believe is this behavior that was a violation of his office, and an impeachable offense. So i think that the person public, everyone should be wanting the truth to come out, the public deserves the truth. And everyone should be asking. I dont care what party you belong to is, what are the lines that this president has to cross . Because you got to have a line. You got you cant think this president no matter what he does is right. Because then we shift from being a democracy to a dictatorship. And thats not who we are. This is a time that calls for a serious, sobered review of the facts. And the evidence. Not with any kind of partisan glee or despair on other either. In this process we must be patriots evaluating the evidence and coming to the conclusions, because this is not just about this moment in time. This has implications that are far reaching about what our democracies going to be going forward. If this president is allowed to engage in this kind of behavior, we will begin to see the unraveling of this democracy allowing president s in that office to conduct themselves in ways that are not about the leader of the free world, the protector of democracy, but more like a dictator and the people who follow him blindly no matter what say he can do nothing wrong . They are implicated and complicit in that undermining of our democratic ideals. Senator, quickly, youre coming to us from iowa, i believ believe. Is anyone talking about any of this on the campaign trail . Look, i i think that this is not the main issue people are talking about where right now americans are struggling out here. Whether its the cost of their prescription drugs or the safety of their kids at school. And i think that for me, ive made this personal decision to really separate these in my mind as much as possible to do my job as a United States senator, not to worry about the politics. Politics be damned. I swore an oath to up hold the constitution. Im going to do that. Right now we will beat donald trump. Ly beat donald trump. This is a weak president who is continuing oh to the show his inability to solve the problems of the people and thats what im talking about on the campaign trail most are the challenges we face in our democracy. And for the lives of everyday americans. And how we can clearly be a nation that better heals and comes together and pursues our common purpose as a nation again. Senator cory booker from my home state of new jersey, thank you very much for your time. Thank you for admitting youre a jersey boy. I appreciate that. Of course. Ive always worried now that youre big and famous, youll deny your newark roots. Oh, please. Theres more a. M. Joy on the way. Dont go anywhere. Way. Dont go anywhere. Theres much more on todays breaking news and what it means for the impeachment inquiry, after the break. Stay right there. After my dvt blood clot, i wondered. Could another come around the corner. Or could it play out differently . I wanted to help protect myself. My doctor recommended eliquis. Eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. Almost 98 of patients on eliquis didnt experience another. And eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. Eliquis is fdaapproved and has both. Dont stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. If you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling numbness or muscle weakness. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. And it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planed medical or dental procedures. Whats around the corner could be your moment. Ask your doctor about eliquis. Before she puts them in the dishwasher. So what does the dishwasher do . vo cascade platinum does the work for you. Prewashing and removing stuckon foods, the first time. mom wow thats clean vo cascade platinum. I dont say this lightly but lets be frank the National Night mare is moupon us. It is a moment of truth from the republican and they have been largely silent. He called on two former governments to interfere on biden. This should be a national agency. The founding father would consider it a National Intelligence that the president publicly led multiple Foreign Governments to interfere into our former Vice President. The same day donald trump stood on the white house lawn to say this. Like wise, china should start an investigation into the bidens because what happened in china is just about as bad as what happened with ukraine so i would say that president zelensky, if it were me, i would recommend they start an investigation into the bidens because nobody has any doubt that they were not crooked. As chuck todd noted what we heard from the president was a public allegation of the impeachment probe as well as the whistleblowers complaint. It is not a hearsay, it is not a leak or a whistleblowers complaint. It is not a memorandum of a phone conversation. You heard the president himself do it on the white house lawn. The magnitude of this story is undeniable. Only three other president in history have been projected to impeachment proceedings. If this is what chuck is describing it is the National Main media is treating it such. The whistleblower on ukraine became national news. The Mainstream Media has been following the scandal that threatens to bring down the trump presidency. It is a story that offers newcone new compelling evidence daily. The whistleblower now says he represents multiple whistleblower. We think of National Emergency, we recall a moment of collective crisis which engulfed in the nation. Is the Mainstream Media treating trumps scandal and impeachment in the same way . If it is not, should it . Joining me now is ej dionne at the Washington Post. Post. Paul butler, Natasha Burke of political and Jason Johnson of the roots. Thank you so much for sharing your sunday with me. Well start with shawna, are we in a National Emergency and is the media cover it such. We are in the process of impeachment inquiry of the president of the United States. It has not happened many times in the country. Based on the coverage of this network and other networks, it is being treated as such. I do think everything having to do with this president though because there are so many things like the tweets and him going on the White House South Lawn and basically saying things that he was not supposed to say publicly. There are so many Little Things that we have covered this president in the last lthree years that every tweet seems a big deal that media is hard to distinguish that this is different. I do think what that means is you need things like what chuck todd did which is try to reset, hey, guys. We are going to cover the tweets that seem to say the things that the president should not say. This is actual ly bigger. Thats on us. Ej. You can argue the National Emergency seems the day after the 2016 president ial given the nature of this presidency. I think i am glad chuck said and what he said, you are seeing a real toughening of the media. When you have the president of the United States going out there and ratifying what hes been accused of all along which is seeking the influence of foreign power in our election on our own behalf. Sullivan says the Mainstream Media must end both sides. I think you are seeing that now, we should all be for all side journalists and there are not more than two sides to a question. When people had legitimate fact base argument against each other. Truth could not be given the same level of coverages. We should not make them equivalent. There are moments in politics when one party as an interest in the truth. The other party has an interest in false where President Trump lies. It is not partisan for the media to be partisan towards the truth. It could look like that if one side of the argument as President Trump tells lie after lie. It is worth reiterating. Objectivity does not mean both sides. Thats what i just said. I am for a real debate but not real debate when it is based in truth. Paul butler. Jonathan, this week we learn early in the week that there were credible, the president of the United States violated the Campaign Financing laws when he directed a criminal conspiracy to get foreign leaders to interfere if our election. Near the end of the week we saw the president of the United States commit the same crime on National Television when he solicited china for dirt on the bidens. We have the national crisis. I think the constitutional remedy for this crisis is impeachment and then removal from office. The National Emergency will be if it turns out the constitution does not work because of politics. If it were republicans, the 20 republicans need to evoke along with the democrats in the senate to remove the president from office. If those 20 republicans dont step up, then we have a National Emergency. What we have is a president corrupt through and through and the senate would not fulfill its Constitutional Responsibilities to protect our democracy. The reason we know of this emergency because of the media. When we have this failure of accountability of transparency, we need the institution to step up. The Supreme Court wont, the senate wont, the media must. Natasha, i want to get your response as well. Before you do, just jumping off on what paul just said. Lets take a listen on what Newt Gingrich had to say on fox news on tuesday. What you are watching i is it is not an impeachment. It tells you how sick the democrats are that they prepare so much and people like adam schiff are just plain liars. It is not as coup because impeachment is a constitutional remedy to alleged crime and bapti misdemeanors by the president. People like Newt Gingrich and people like senator ron johnson and this morning with chuck todd are going to launch the fiercest defense if they can of the president even if it is nonsensic nonsensical. This emergency language is not only how this is going to affect you know our country and how much it is going to divide people but also has to do with the protection of our elections and it is a National Security issue as well. When you have the president going out and essentially soliciting dirt on his political opponents from these countries. It is not that it creates an obvious conflict of interests and potential interference if our election 2020. It creates a possibility for black male and for other countries to them who are so desperate to come up with this dirt because the president has essentially told them if you dont give me this, we are not going to help you. That creates an atmosphere where this information can be sold. The russians have long been taught to infiltrated Ukraine Service for example can put information out there. It creates the whole atmosphere. So the president is not just the impeachment question i dont think is just a National Emergency of how it affects our politics but on a broader level, this could create a crisis in terms of how other countries r perceive us and how we are projecting ourselves susceptible to this kind of blackmail and this information. Jason, before i come to you and get your views on the National Emergency that we seem to be in since natasha brought it out. Senator johnson was on meet the press with chuck todd. I am going to play that right now. I had my third letter into the Inspector General asking to just confirm are you investigating those leaks to peter strzok. Thats a set up. Why a fox news conspiracy propaganda stuff is popping up here. I have no idea why we are going here. Senator, i am asking thats why President Trump is upset and his supporters are upset. This is not about the media. Senator johnson, please. Can you please answer the question that i ask you instead of trying to make donald trump feel better here that you are not criticizing him jason. Right there it was just a proof that interview was proof to my mind of what chuck todd had warned. This is a National Emergency and yet you have members of the senate, the president s own party who were throwing out conspiracy theories even after the president on the south lawn basically yes, i did it. You got to be honest. If lying politicians is a National Emergency, we had that problem for a long time. I will say this. I think one thing is important to remember and chuck todd was exactly right, a National Emergency. What we are seeing now for all of the terrible norms that donald trump is destroyed, for all the ways that Mitch Mcconnell and republicans in the senate and republicans in the house have stomped over how the constitution is supposed to operate for now, the system is still working. We are going to have an impeachment process. If the process were not beginning, we are beyond constitutional crisis and we should all be prepared to escape and run to canada at this point. As long as we have a system that appears to be working reasonably well. We are in better shape than we can be. When we get to the senate, i dont expect republicans unless it is a private secret vote in high school. If we at least have a system that goes to the process of an actual impeachment hearing and actual votes, it means we are better off than we thought we would be eight to ten months ago. You know what i want to say . With the republicans in the senate, i agree with jason likelihood right now. The only way it could change is the whole bottom falls out like it did with Richard Nixon and even with Richard Nixon, there were republicans defended him until the end and republicans saying you know it will hurt me in the long run in the party if i vote no, even if this is a cat s we cant lose sight of what goes on in this administration. Trump administration would slash all kinds of needy people on food stamps and cut their benefits. In the back of the newspaper, somehow the media has to keep covering the actual working government and give the attention that is National Emergency. I mean, i think the one thing that does interest me of what ron johnson said on meet the press is he brought up those things on fox news. Those things are investigated right now. The doj opened the investigation into the entire investigation of how the entire investigation goes. To the question for republicans is okay, that thing you wanted to investigate, barr is taking care of that. Are you okay with an investigation into the president asking ukraine to investigate by them. Thats a question that every republican needs to be asked. If you are not okay, why are you okay with this one thing . Maybe this is not for you, paul. Answer this out to anyone who may have to answer this question. The president said he thought china should investigate Vice President biden because what he did in china was as bad i am trying to understand. You are trying to make it make sense . Yes. What is china . What did Vice President biden do . What is he talking about . Does anybody know . The answer is hes making a lot of charges. This is the guy whos getting tough on china in trade. He seems to be saying hey, if you give us dirt on biden, we can move these trade negotiations. This is not an americas first. It is trumps first. The president keeps on lying all the time. He keeps on making things up. Hes going to ask china and hes going to mix things up thatll be going after joe biden at this point. I think what the president s responsibility is and we are talking about how people when the president lies, he has to say hes lying. It is like Nicole Wallace did last week. When the president lies in the speech, we are not going to cover it. Thats the speedometresponsibile press, to sort through it and not give it oxygen when hes not telling the truth. The public is going to decide what they want to decide. Well, we cant let the liars keep ongoing. The media also has a responsibility to distinguish between when the president only lies which is familiar and everyday. When the president commits a crime on National Television which is what we did on thursday. Again, when you reach out to china or any Foreign Government and say i need dirt on my political opponent, thats a federal crime. To the extent there was concerns of what happened in the ukraine because of secondhand information and circumstantial evidence. On thursday we saw him with our own eyes c, will the other membs step up to remove this corrupt man from office . Natasha, i should have asked you that china question. Do you know what hes talking about on china . I think it is part of this Conspiracy Theory having to do with potential corruption. Hunter biden was sitting on business with china. Really most outlets are not giving much oxygen to. In the little time we have left and we have not talked about. I know we are talking about the medias coverage. The media is going to be covering and has been cover ing since it broke earlier this morning. The news since a second whistleblower has stepped forward. Whistleblower networking accord attorneys had firsthand knowledge. I will do a quick round, robin, will the fact the second whistleblower coming forward advance the story or change the narrative or box the president in a tighter corner or give me your responses and i will start with Jason Johnson . This helps because there is going to be a flood of whistleblower coming forward. Everybody is covering their butts at this particular point. Maybe the adults in the room or people who were just concerned. They should blow the whistle as their theme song what theyre going to come forward. Thats what well see for weeks now. It is one thing to try to persuade one whistleblower and find out things about their family when five or six or seven people, some appointed by the Trump Administration, thats a sign that the dam is finally breaking. Natasha. I think it is definitely going to get credence to the first whistleblowers complaint more so than the transcripts we have seen already because this person also has firsthand knowledge and presumably give information on other people. It is misguided to focus on the whistleblower because we have seen the president come out and admit to this and we have seen the document and state Department Representatives who were doing this behind the scenes pretty blatantly. I think while the whistleblower is coming forward is helpful. We already have the evidence that we need out in the open. It is a great point, paul. What natasha says, the question of the investigation is did the trump team shake down the ukrainians to provide dirt for the political enemy . The answer is yes. The second whistleblower may corroborate that. The second whistleblower may expand what we already know. Other smoking evidence of the president s corruption here. His own words in the summary of that july 25th conversation with the russian leader. The Text Messages between our ambassadors and involved with ukraine who just assumed that the president was making this overture demanding, holding a gun to ukraine, i am not going to give you military aide unless you give me the dirt. We have Rudy Giuliani admitting on National Television this was the president intent. On thursday, the president confirms the National Television of his intent. He did it with china. Way cumulative evidence of this impeachment offense have occ occurred. Ej and shawna. What natasha said and what we are talking about here is reality verses mistake believe that the president is trying to push out there. Can the press can the press distinguish between the two and seems between the two or the public . I think hes trying very hard here and seeing that on the front page of the papers today that you know if you have a score here with the new information on the second whistleblower. The score 750 in favor of the original whistleblower. T to Trump Administration is only halftime. The press can put in real information out there. More of the people who voted for trump are open to this than the conventional wisdom. The real trump based is smaller than what he thinks and a lot of people think. The media question is a difficult one because it involves the president of the United States. I saw when Nicole Wallace cut away from the trumps event because the president was lying. The thing that we struggle with and i am not going to pretend to have an answer on this. The thing that we struggle with was yes, he could lie and said what he said to china and ukraine. Hes still the president of the United States. Not covering his words seemed unfair sometimes because hes the biggest meter in the world. Hes the president , his words matter. Everyone wh even when he lies, his words matter. Sometimes that context is difficult when he can talk for 30 minutes or 45 minutes at a rally. I dont have an answer. It is something that people should know we struggle with. We got to go, Jason Johnson, thank you for your time. Well see the rest of the group later in the hour. If you have not noticed, we are in a maddow moment. My colleague has a new book out. A. M. Joy will continue next. A. M. Joy will continue next. [upbeat action music] pilot were going to be on the tarmac for another 45 minutes or so. This week my friend joy reid sat down with Rachel Maddow to discuss her book blow out. Rachel maddow. Joy reid. Welcome to where will my loved ones who try to tell me dont write a second book club. What was i thinking . I said i was not writing another one but i am glad you wrote it. Thank you for reading it and talking to me about it. Cozying up maddow on oil and gas. This answers one of the Big Questions with a capitol b and capital q about the state of the world. You bring it down a lot of way. The idea that finding oil under your land seems like a blessing and then it is not a blessing. Talk about how first of all, the United States kind of became in a sense the king of oil. We are here in the john deer rockefeller building. The United States invented oil drilling. One of my favorite things of the start of oil drilling in the United States is even the guy who drove the first realm was already a con man, already lying. He called himself colonel francis rick. Hes like colonel sanders. He w he was not in the military. There were oil in other parts of the world, we pioneer oil drilling in the 1800s. And that sets the tone in terms of what this industry would be like and what its values would be. That ended up carrying today in interesting ways. We ended up in this thing i think we can see clearly now. Academics have been talking about it for a long time. I dont think we thought about it in terms of the news. When you do have Natural Resources in your country. That could be extracted and sold internationally. It is going to produce a bunch of revenue. It is going to ruin your country and give you a terrible government. That happens in little countries and happens in u. S. States and big countries. The oil and gas industry on governance is something that we are really reaping the world from right now when it comes to russia. It is going to be a really big deal when it comes to the change that we are going of from climate change. You just peelback because i will definitely get to russia. Theyre in the middle of this spectrum of of one of my obsessio obsessions, i think you wrote this book just for me. You are the person who read this book, part of that was for me. You are the only one, it is ama ama amazing. Theyre in decide of this which what we think of the quote on quote third world. I hate that term. The part of the world where oil is all you got. Your government twists and turns itself into hell in order to please american Oil Companies. And then on the other end is the america of the work as some stat states wi states wind up in that situation. A rule of law country. In the middle is russia. Whats fascinating of the way you write russia is they have the same resource of this d dependence on oil of their resource. Theyre in a struggle not wanting the west to control them and the things they got to do in order to keep control. Thats right. I think thats for me why i ended up writing the book. As you know i am sort of obsessed with russians attack in our lives in 2016. I was trying to think it from russias perspective. Why did they throw that at us . Thats a highstake crazy thing to do . Why did they throw the wild pitches throughout the world snl th they invaded ukraine. Why is russia doing this stuff that we are not seeing any other country like them doing . In part, they decided they could build a diversifed company. Oil a gas is an excellent weapon. It may not have a lot of other things it could use to control and coarse katricountry that us be in its orbit. He realized that he could control and if he personally, Vladimir Putin could control the oil and gas of his country, he could use it as a Monkey Wrench to threaten the country with anywhere in the world. That was too testimonympting foo give up. Putin wants to run those companies himself so he got like his thugs and hench men running those things. Russian Gas Companies are terrible and it turns out all the easy oil and gas in russia is already pumped. So they are going to need to use western Oil Companies to get the rest of their oil and gas out of the ground. Western oil company is happy to help them do that. With sanctions against russia for their behavior, they cant tap western oil and gas. That is makes sanction a gambet for them. It made it works and on the other hand, attacking crimea to get the sanctions to kick in it it stops them from being able to do business. The thing thats controlling. The whole economy. One does wonder if all these nations that we see in our president doing Everything Possible to try the get russia right to give them a clean bill of help is about allowing them to do this again. He did pick rex tillerson. There is a great story of tillerson. Oh my gosh. And a dead mans cell phone number whos the expert. Yes. So if thats the answer because no one understands why donald trump is so obsessed with getting russia right again. Is it as simple as that . Well, it is if you think about it from russias perspective. Thats the conclusion that i came to. There maybe a different million reasons why donald trump looks at Vladimir Putins eyes and gets all soft. In terms of what trump has done for putin and what he tries to conceal for putin during the campaign, all of those secret peace deal talks and all of those communications they tried to keep secret, that were outed by federal investigators. During the campaign and the transition and immediately trump getting on washington and whats going on right now arnds tound impeachment stuff. They all go towards russia from being sanctions. Both in terms of invasion of ukraine and take of crimea and in term of their election. Trump is trying to undo all of that. Russia needs to be freed from sanctions because they need access to western Oil Technology to drill what is under their seats and what is under is their own economic asset. It is a tragedy. Russia is an incredibly resourceful country with historical achievement and all of this stuff. Instead theyre this state with the economy and smaller italy. Putin needs to keep fuelling this oil and gas company. Hell do anything. I am going to come back the United States. The other thing i swear you wrote this book, what would joy want to read . This incredible 1969 experiment to use nukes to extract natural gas. The Oil Companies that they are willing to perpetrate. That mentality in our oil and gas industry feels like it is also killing us. Killing us in terms of the environment. Are we in the United States now at risk of becoming a country that has the resource . I think there are state governments and parts of the country i think that the reason having oil and gas money and even when there is a ton of oil and gas money having it for the bases of your economy is always a bad idea. Even when there is a lot of money, it is going to be on a cycle. If you are basing your whole economy like oklahoma does, one of the things i read about in the book on oil revenue, the huge proportion on the way you are going to run your government, thats great. You cant plan for the future. If you are a long, standing government, you need to be able to plan for the future. You cant do that. It makes for bad budgeting. It means that the elites and governments are totally be hold into whatever the oil and gas industry wants to do. If they want to come in and try to free up natural gas. If you are not in a position to say no. You are go say yes to stuff that you dont approve. It happens in rich countries or big countries or poor countries. And i think that to the extent that we can you dont have to invade against it, recognize it is true. There is no shame in it. It is a natural process of these di dynamics. The book is called blow out. It is not going to be the last book by Rachel Maddow. Yes, it is. Swear with me. No more books. No more books. It is so good. Thank you. First of all, it reads like a detective novel. I am reading it and listening it to you at 2. 0 which is awesome. You are talking about alvin and the chimp muncks which is so awesome. No one can borrow my book but they can read it. Thank you so much. We got more a. M. Joy straight ahead. A. M. Joy straight ahead announcer Time Magazine reports the new american addiction. How juul hooked kids and ignited a Public Health crisis. Other news outlets report juul took 12. 8 billion from big tobacco. Markets ecigarettes with kid friendly flavors and uses nicotine to addict them. 5 million kids use ecigarettes. Juul is following big tobaccos playbook. And now, juul is pushing prop c to overturn ecigarette protections. Vote no on juul. No on big tobacco. No on prop c. This week america lost two cultural icons. On monday, the extraordinary Jessye Norman died at the age of 74. One of her most iconic performances was her rendition in paris on the 200th anniversary of bastille day. As i wrote this week, i had the pleasure of knowing miss norman and her music helped inspire me when i was a young writer dealing with writer blocks. I am sure her music with continue to inspire generations to come. Another inspiration to many. Diahannc carroll passed away. During the 1980s, her show on dynasty. Champagne is obviously frozen in bottles at some point. Is the champagne too burn for your taste . I would not know. Dianne carroll and Jessye Norman, two extraordinary divas may be rested. More a. M. Joy after the break. There is potential int interferen interference. I am being called a conspiracy theorist. The press is horribly biassed and trump and his supporters understand that. I understand a way to avoid answer requequestions to attackn the press. I am apair ware of that. Did ron johnson perform for one audience this morning, trump. He was told that trumps potential Pressure Campaign on ukraine back in august. Joining me now is Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post and back with me is Shawna Thomas and natasha bertrand. Welcome jennifer every time i see the clip of senator johnson, i am just rendered speechless. Right now we have seen excuses for whats going to happen. It is either it is really the president really concerned of a conspiracy, it is rick perrys fault. Hes joking. Give me your impression of what on earth is happening. I think they are so desperate on the republican side. This is what they are reduced to that he was only kidding sort of excuse. It is telling that there is no no one from the white house on this sunday show today. These people are running in hiding. They run from the cameras and reporters because they they do not know what to do. There is no good explanation for this. Simply throwing a bunch of mud in the air or dust in the air does not get them overs the problem. Did the president do something if it was impeachable. Theyre having a hard time. Especially he went on camera and said yeah, i did it. Lets play what he had to say that. The president loves to go at it on the white house. I have not talked to him about this. I dont know what the president was thinking. And now lets hear from congressman jim jordan. You really think he was serious about thinking that china is going to investigate the bidens family . Hes getting it right there. Senator rubio said a couple of days ago, hes getting the press all spunned on th on this. This is the president thats tougher on china. Oh, china is going to investigate . He was making a statement to underscore how wrong it is and what took place here with hunter biden giving the deal that he got. Thats all hes doing. Senator marco rubio . Do you think it is okay for President Trump to ask china to launch an investigation to biden. I dont know if thats a real press. You are one of the loudest critics is it okay for him to ask that . He did it to provoke you guys to ask me and others and get outraged by it. Natasha bertrand, to your mind, was the president joking . What hes doing is signaling to these countries that it is okay for them to do this that they are being encouraged to look into his political rivals. He did not explicitly say on that phone call we are going to hold that military aide unless you do this. He kind of points and nods. Hes doing the same thing with the chinese. He did in june talked to xi jinping of the biden issue and transactional ideal that hes hoping to make with them. We know hes been that way for decades. He believes that and this is something mike pompeo also believes that the United States want something. Then thats a way that the u. S. Will also provide other countries with something they want to, too. It is a push and pull. For republicans to come out and say this is just a joke completely of everything we know about the president. Theyre scrambling as well and getting frustrated. There is no unified impeachment coming from the white house. Theyre not getting any guida e guidance. Theyre throwing things out there. Thats going to make them frustrated as well. Theyre not getting any kind of real signals from the white house here. Shawna. It is not the glareatest explanation of the world. The president of the United States goes to the white house lawn to joke about that. Okay, here is another thing you can say. Here is another way you can try to help me get out of this. Thats fine. At its face value, hes going out there telling china i would be cool for you to investigate joe biden. It is not funny. It is not a joke. Thats not how a presidency should work. Since we keep on talking about this joke. Lets listen to it. Like wise, china should start an investigation into the bidens. Because what happened to china is just about as bad as what happened ukraine so i would say that president zelensky, if it were me, i would recommend they start an investigation in to the biden because nobody has any doubt that they were not crooked. Oh, what a card hes not joking. The ukraine set up. Was he joking the first part of the sentence and not joking the second part of the sentence or the reverse . Of course, hes not joking. Listen, we know there is a phone call, how much longer before we get the transcript of that and then what are these republicans are going to say . Natasha, real quick . This is all going to come out. What we know about the president , everything he says in public, he tends to say in private. What he does is he reveals to us what hes actually been saying to World Leaders and his aides, thats something former officials tell me all the time. The president is easy to read in that sense. When he says things in public because hes thinking it privately and making suggestions and hes quietly consuming all of this. Shawna. I just think it is going to be a long week. Every week is going to be a long week as more information comes out. If the second whistleblower actually comes out and decides to talk to congress, that gets further with the conversation. The House Democrats do need to do a real investigation, they do need to bring public superintendentmesentiment along with them if they are serious in impeaching it. Bri they have to actually carry out the investigation. Right. I am with you, this is going to be a long week. Really this feels different because every day there has been multiple breaking news on this front for what . Everyday for about 14 days straight. Buckle up, yall. Shawna thomas and natasha bertrand, jennifer, stay right here. Thank you, up in the canext, my colleagues will tell me who won the week. Ill tell me who won the week h stories that im listening to thats inspiration. With audible originals, theres something for almost every taste in there. Everything you ever wanted to hear. Our ability to empathize through these stories can be transformational. Its my own thing that i can do for me. Download audible and start listening today. Doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacistrecommendeding . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. At first slice pizza lovers everywhere meet o, thats good frozen pizza one third of our classic crust is made with cauliflower but thats not stopping anyone o, thats good ever since you brought me home, that day. Ive been plotting to destroy you. Sizing you up. Calculating your every move. You think this is love . This is a billion years of tiger dna just ready to pounce. And if you have the wrong Home Insurance coverage, you could be coughing up the cash for this. So get allstate and be better protected from mayhem, like meow. It is finally time to find out, who won the week. Back with me paul butler, ejdione and Jennifer Rubin. Who won the week . Mitt romney won the week when he said it is wrong and appalling for the u. S. President to ask you crane and china for dirt on the bidens. And when a republican from utah makes this point about the president s corruption, he is joining a tiny club of republicans who are willing to push back against the president. Jonathan, i know this is kind of like old chris rock joke about how you should not give credit for things that i are supposed to do, and yes, the republicans are supposed to criticize a president who is profoundly corrupt, but the reality is that most republicans seem too scared of trump. So mitt romney is the person of the week. He won the week for fulfilling the constitutional responsibility to provide checks and balances on the president. And as we saw, senator ron johnson is like prime example a in the people who are afraid of the president. But i think that you are wrong. Jennifer . I actually switched this morning. I was going to say the house intel committee, because they have done such a good job of moving the ball along and not getting caught up in the court fights, but i had to change in honor of msnbc and nbcs own chuck todd who put on a tutorial as to how you confront these republicans. You do not allow them to filibuster, and you not allow them to bring in extraneous as he says it fox propaganda, and you drive for the question, and you keep asking it until you get an answer. This is one very positive sign that we have seen this week on not only from chuck but from people on other networks and people in the print media, they are take it as National Emergency, and they are treating it with the seriousness that it deserves, so kudos to chuck. Ej . I cant even name the person that i think is the winner of the week, because i think hands down the whistleblower is the person of the week. Headline of the Washington Post, emerging evidence buttresses the evidence of the whistleblower, and now we have learned that there is another whistleblower out there, and maybe more, and this is great thing that what the whistleblower said is true, and secondly every whistleblower out there now knows that it is at least possible if you speak out to really overturn everything in washington if it should be overturned, and it sure does need to be overturned right now. Okay. So those are all fine answers, but you are all wrong, because the person who won the week is House Speaker nancy pelosi. I think that she won the week not only because she had the fortitude to bring about this impeachment inquiry last week, but this week when the white house threatened her, and tried to bluff her into giving up the impeachment inquiry, she did didnt buckle and that why i say Speaker Nancy Pelosi won the week. Yall try again next week. Paul butler, and ejd ish dione nancy rubin, thank you. Nancy rubin, thank you. From the couldnt be prouders to the wait did we just winners. Everyone uses their phone differently. Thats why Xfinity Mobile lets you design your own data. Now you can share it between lines. Mix with unlimited, and switch it up at anytime so you only pay for what you need. Its a different kind of Wireless Network designed to save you money. Save up to 400 a year on your wireless bill. Plus get 250 back when you buy an eligible phone. Call, click, or visit a store today. That is our show forday, and thank you for watching. A. M. Joy is going to be next week. Alex witt is going to pick up the latest. I was cracking up at you, because you were like, you are all wrong and i am right, and it is nancy pelosi. You are a man of conviction, jonathan capehart. Thank you. Have a good sunday. Thank you, alex. And so right here from headquarters in new york, it is high noon, and welcome to weekends with alex witt and what the attorney is saying and how this could change the course of the impeachment inquiry. And let me ask you this, senator. I have a lot of one of the things that you came on