Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20180721

Ten years and one celebrity run later, that would come back to haunt trump. At that tournament where those two women each had sexual encounters with him. A one off she would describe as less than spectacular. In mcdougals case a month long affair. Both women would also claim they were the recipients of hush money during the president ial campaign to keep the affairs secret. Donald trump has denied any knowledge of payments made to Stormy Daniels or Karen Mcdougal, but Michael Cohen apparently has receipts. New york times reported this week that cohen secretly recorded a conversation between himself and donald trump in which they discussed payments to mrs. Mcdougal or to the National Inquirer for her story. Just two months before the president ial election. By the way, contrary to what donald trump may want, we will not be bearing off the metastasizing helsinki battle. We will break down this weekend and talk with bill, one of the men trump considered handing over to putin, but for now, lets bring in sam. Former Trump Campaign adviser. Michael, attorney for Stormy Daniels. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Im going to start with you on this sam. Donald trump this morning of course woke up and started tweet accident, saying its inconceivable the government would break in a Lawyers Office early in the morning. Goes on to say even more inconceivable than a lawyer taping a client. Only unheard of and perhaps illegal. Should donald trump have been surprised that Michael Cohen taped their calls. I think he could be surprised that michael would tape. It wasnt a call. It was in person. He should be surprised however the way michael was treated, what michael was being asked to do during the campaign, michael shaugt thought he had to protect himself. He had not been treated well through the campaign and multiple iterations of management. With that said, and going by reporting of emily fox, having spoken to some people and speaking to my attorney, i dont think this was the right move by president s legal team to have leaked this tape. So you think these tapes were leaked by Donald Trumps side planny davis who michael has hired somebody steve bannon reached out to when he was starting how to process. Our position, position to people that dont think the president should be impeached for collusion. Possibly mueller a lot of these could be seen as destruction. Could leaking the tapes influence the outcome of the investigation in your view. Not in my i think theres a legal question about it. I cant want to say it is. Sure. Let me ask michael that question. I dont know a, if you agree with sam that the likelihood with some of the reporting images. Talked about this last night. That this actually was leaked by the trump side for whatever reason. Do you agree that is the most likely the case. No, i completely disagree. Its pretty obvious this tape was leaked by Michael Cohen cease side and in my view was a final shot across the bow if you will at donald trump to send the message that time is running out. And if donald trump does not bring Michael Cohen into the tent or try to protect him, serious consequences are going to result. I completely disagree that it makes no sense for the white house to have leaked this tape. I think it was leaked by Michael Cohens side for the reason i mentioned earlier. Let me just say this, joy, that old adage you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Donald trump knew for the better parking lot of a decade that Michael Cohen had a tendency to tape record conversations with adversaries and others and to hold on to those recordings. He knew that. In fact Michael Cohen bragged about it various times to donald trump and others. Should come as no surprise to donald trump that hes included within the group that was taped. Back on that, if in fact this was a sign from Michael Cohen that he is prepared to flip. There is some reporting out there that hes had it. Right . He spoke to al sharpton for a couple of hours over the last couple of days. This is what reverend al said. Im sorry to switch on my producers. This is what reverend al said. I think Michael Cohen has made it very clear to me this morning, he is not going to be some sacrificial lamb for something that was done wrongly. Did he say he was cooperating, no. Did he say how that was going to manifest, no, but he very clearly said that he is disappointed in the president where hes turned how hes turned out in terms of attacking the media. That he wanted me to know. That he was going to do what was right for the country as a pa patriot. You know, you get the sense he has done a lot of soul searching. I left there feeling he is definitely going to say what he knows and means what he says. Whoever ends up leaking this tape, do you believe, sam, that Michael Cohen is now going to turn on and flip on donald trump. Well, i certainly do as a result of interview to george ste stephen on l stephen. With that said. We as republicans dont necessarily have the president s personal life. I think republicans specifically, evangelicals, we made a deal. Theyll standby. Yes. Sort of Foreign Policy and things like that that we believe this is not the perfect vessel, but this is were getting the perfect return on the investment. So thats what i think. And i think michael has to do what is best for michael. I can tell you that once again, president s legal team should have thought of ramifications from the legal point of view and from what possibly happens if lets say jerry is a chair of house judiciary. After the elections. Lets talk about some of the legal consequences potentially, michael you represent the other woman who was at that 2006 golf tournament, Stormy Daniels who was the other woman allegedly paid for her silence. In your view, what are the legal consequences of at least getting confirmation that donald trump in the months before the election at least discussed openly discussed with his then lawyer the idea of the other woman Karen Mcdougal being paid. I want to make a couple things clear. This is not the only tape with Donald Trumps voice on it with Michael Cohen. I know that for a fact. I want to be really clear about it. Thats why i demanded release of all of the, what i coined at the time, the trump tapes back in late may. And we repeated that demand. In my view, all of these audio recordings should be release to the American People. From a legal perspective, the issue is if donald trump knew that Michael Cohen was going to be making payments on his behalf or others were going to be making payments on his behalf, in order to influence the 2016 election, that may in fact constitute evidence of direct Campaign Finance violations which can be criminal in nature. It can also provide evidence relating to money laundering, bank fraud, wire fraud and a host of other potential crimes or charges relating to that conduct. I want to go back to something that was touched on. Thus far t only person ive seen donald trump show any loyalty to in his life is Vladimir Putin unfortunately. Its a very short list. Its a short list of one. It should have been a short list of two and the second person on that list should have been Michael Cohen. If there was anyone on the face of the planet that donald trump should have made sure was in the tenth, made sure was protected, made sure was loved watered and cared for it should have been Michael Cohen and he didnt do that. The result of that is going to be disastrous for the ptd do you know the nature of other discussions. Im not at liberty to get in details of those conversations now. Theres multiple tapes. There was a host of evidence that was seized in connection with the raids. That evidence at least a copy of which has been returned to Michael Cohen. Theres nothing stopping Michael Cohen from releasing that information. Dyville were going to do it. Davis, the attorney for Michael Cohen tweeted out theres an ongoing investigation. Do you think date of servihe is john of representing Michael Cohen. Would you ever consider representing Michael Cohen. Well, i already asked me about that yesterday. And i said that i would consider it. I want to be really clear because theres only a limited set of facts or circumstances under which i could or would do that. It would necessitate obviously Michael Cohen being dismissed from the current litigation between him and my client. Hes a codefendant with donald trump. We would have to settle him out. There would have to be very tight parameters around that representation. We would have to have a waiver from my client who i think would ultimately provide it. It would have to be in writing. The only way i would agree to do that. I want to be really, really clear about this, joy. The only way i would agree to do it is 100 confidence that Michael Cohen was ready to do the right thing, fully disclose what he knew about the president , and if he sought my assistance in bringing that information to the American People and putting it all on the table for people to see. Under those limited set of circumstances, i would consider it. Youve talked very open about donald trump jokes and not being loyal to them. Do you think that ultimately Donald Trumps biggest regret is going to be mistreating Michael Cohen. It could be. All he had to do was give michael a position in the white house. It didnt even have to be in the west wing. Could have been eob. There are many other people who got positions that were not around early on in the campaign, but in fact working against this president and his campaign. I was there. One of the main reasons michael did not get the position i repeatedly said is because Jared Kushner lobbied against it. Michael gave good advice. I recommend you do not bring jarred because you can have a lot of exposure. So when you say look, he hasnt been too many i would say. Hes been overly loyal to jarred. That could also be part of the downfall here when we find out. Once again, i think davis may even perhaps come out saying we didnt leak this tape. If he says that, that gives a lot of exposure to the trump team which is why i was very surprised by this. As opposed to many others, i said from the beginning that rudy was doing a good job. This could be a big mistake. On the Rudy Giuliani front. Hes been critical. What do you make of his statements attempting to mitigate the impact of this tape. I thought they were dumb quite honestly. I dont understand what hes doing. I continue to be perplexed by exactly what Rudy Giuliani is doing. He used to be a great lawyer. He used to be a good spokesperson. I think hes been nothing, but a walking disaster for the president and for their legal approach to this. I dont understand why he would say that. Theres no way this tape is exsculpt tory. Provides evidence of mr. Trumps innocence. Thats a ridiculous assertion. Thank you both for become here. Coming up next, latest on treez treason week. As we go to break. The clip you saw at the top of the show, feature this is little basketball star who also happens to be rebecca sigh who now that shes all grownup t woman who produced this segment. There she is in the control room waiving. Shes embarrassed, but we love her. Stay with us. Agerelated macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. My doctor and i came up with a plan. It includes preservision. Only Preservision Areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the National Eye Institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. Thats why i fight. Because its my vision. Preservision. Also, in a greattasting chewable. The kayak explore tool shows you the places you can fly on your budget. So you can be confident youre getting the most bang for your buck. Aloha. Kayak. Search one and done. Im begging you. Take gasx. Ed beneath the duvet your tossing and turning isnt restlessness, its gas gasx relieves pressure, bloating and discomfort. Fast so we can all sleep easier tonight. Have you ever seen anything like that before in American Government . Is it still going on . Am i asking the right questions here . Do i have that right . Sounds a little nuts. Fair to say. Why is this happening. Why is that . We have some breaking news. The white house has announced on twitter that Vladimir Putin is coming to the white house in the fall. Say that again. Vladimir putin coming did i hear you. Yes yeah. Okay. Yes. Thats going to be special. After deeming his behind closed door summit with Vladimir Putin a huge success, insisting russia was no longer targeting the u. S. , and dubbing the media the real enemy of the people. Donald trump invited the russian president to a second summit. This time in washington, d. C. Right before the Midterm Elections. After the director of National Intelligence reacted to that news live with andrea mitchell, advisers were in a uproar according to Washington Post. One senior white house official saying quote, coats, coats. Plot to destroy democracy. Former cia analyst. And jill, former assistant Watergate Special prosecutor. I havent seen you and spoken to you in a long time 6789 come to you first to get your reaction to the fact that after what everyone agrees was a complete debacle in helsinki, donald trump would like to have Vladimir Putin back and invite him to the white house. A place i dont believe he is invited or closest allies. I dont understand. I agree with dan coats. This is something that is unprecedented what the president is doing with putin. Hes playing a deferea game to. Hasnt done this to our allies. Let alone coming to terms with working with opposing Political Parties here in the United States. The way hes treating putin and the way and the interaction that hes had with him, especially in helsinki and now inviting him to the white house. This isnt a series of negotiations as its played off to be. To me, this is really about putins control over trump and the fact trump is being manipulated and allowing himself to do so. That i think is ultimately why this is happening. Malcolm, not only that, but were also learning this week, first of all were hearing the red me readouts of what happened. Russians were announcing. Donald trumps only administration doesnt yet know what was said in those meetings. Apparently the russians do and theyre starting to put it out there. Now we learned according to defense one on wednesday after secret trump meeting, russia offers to resume military relations. Russia set to warm up military e relations with the United States pursuant to the agreement reached monday between the president s. Thats what Russian Defense Ministry Said tuesday. Surprising officials at the pentagon who were still waiting to hear what came out of the closed door meeting. In congress, which banned u. S. Russian military Congress Tour years ago. Your thoughts, malcolm. Im not going to be hyperbolic when i say the russian state has coopted the United States governments administration. The Trump Administration right now is a junior partner to Vladimir Putins kremlin. And the only way that could happen is two factors had to happen. I wrote about this in my book. One the russians executed a very longterm multiyear plan to coop social media. And they have literally reengined the mind set of onethird of the American Public through Donald Trumps mouth. Then on the other hand now you have donald trump having secret negotiations, cutting secret deals which we had already seen when he had the cry director and director of National Intelligence meet with three russian intelligence officers, two of them were sanctioned, but you have these meetings occurring where the entirety of the United States government has no idea what occurred. The russians are now leading the United States around by a leash. Let me tell you something, we may not be talking legal tree n treason, but we are talking a betrayal to the oath of office. The president is no longer protecting and defending the constitution of the United States. Quickly to say with you. You were the person that warned us and reason this show didnt do the emails because you did warn us on this very show, you cant trust anything leaked through russian intelligence and when it comes out on wikileaks you cant take it as gospel. We stayed clear of those emails because of what you told us. You have the military, according to the New York Times completely blind sided. We received no further direction we have been operating under. No idea what he was going to say. Now, can we trust the readouts that we are getting from the russian russians as to what was said. That can be completely changed. No idea what was said in there. Readout were getting is Vladimir Putins readout as he reads his orders out to donald trump. Trump is remaining within the parameters the of that. See right now all trump wants is pageant of bringing putin to the United States. Showing him our military parade. And essentially supporting ourselves to a hostile power. Let me tell you, just because we discussed those emails, that was two years ago, right . That we actually bought that stuff up. The media is only getting it now and we see guys like congressman, former cia. Guy i really like. Suddenly saying, hey, wait a minute. Maybe something is going on between this president and Vladimir Putin. The rest of the nation, 60 of the nation, already knows donald trump is being led by a nose ring by his case officer. The exkgb officer. You now have republicans. Its easy to talk about this being donald trump. You do have the Republican Party. Were going to talk later in the show about the connections that the russians sought with the nra with the religious right. Infiltrating the party by other means. We know from the cias own disclosures that the russian that the rnc was hacked too. Just didnt release anything from their side. The senate had to come out and take up a unanimous vote. Its pretty extraordinary in American History having to take a vote rejecting the idea of allowing a hostile foreign power of allowing Vladimir Putins russia to interrogate americans, including our former ambassador. Somebody who you know participated in the investigation of richard nixon, did you ever think you would see the day the United States senate would have to take a vote saying no, we would not want to send our ambassador to russia to be interrogated. I never thought i would say that president had gotten lower than he had when the access hollywood tapes were released. Every day it goes lower and lower. I think we have to stop saying things are unprecedented because first of all, that appeals to trumps base. They like that everything he does is unprecedented. We have to talk about the danger that is raised by unprecedented behavior. This is definitely a danger to our democracy. And inviting the burglar in to our country and into the white house where he can get firsthand look at how to do whatever he wants to do against us is really wrong. And like malcolm, i dont think its hyperbole to say we have had enough warnings that we have to take action. A lot of people were upset about how much of a warning this was, but thats all i was saying when i compared this to some of the most horrible things in our history is that we have been warned and we have to take action to defend ourselves against what is going on. Yes. I hope we will. And youre not alone in makimak making those warnings very, very explicit. I want to come to you on this. Dan coats who is the director of National Intelligence also compared what we are dealing with ongoing threats from russia to 9 11. Dan coats talking about the potential threats ahead of us from russia. Im concerned about and worried at night. Im concerned about a cyber 9 11. What would that look like. Lets say you shutdown wall street for a week. What does that do to World Markets and peoples investments . Lets say you crash bank of america or wells fargo or whatever and all of a sudden people are saying, wait a minute, what happened to my account . What happened to my retirement. As a former cia analyst, how worried are you about the potential for russia to attack us using cyber warfare and doing some of the things dan coats called a potential cyber 9 11. I completely agree with dan coats. I said on msnbc a little over a year ago when i was talking with katie that i felt like this was a little bit of how the Intelligence Community felt before 9 11 where theyre warning the government, theres action thats not being taken. And right now, you couldnt get this administrations attention on this to do something against russia. Russia probed the electrical grid back in march, we know. So i think theres a completely valid bell to be ringing at this point. If were not doing something to short the defenses against this, where he we will be in another situation where were going to see some type of, you know, catastrophe possibly by the hand of russia feeling behind the curveball on this. That is very concerning to me. Yes. Were going to be talking on the show about the rights to the upcoming election. Remember just one of the potential targets that experts have been concerned about. Sticking around. Thank you very much. Coming up. Sex lies and espionage, thats next. When heartburn hits. Fight back fast with tums smoothies. It neutralizes stomach acid at the source. Tum tum tum tum tums. Smoothies. And introducing new tums sugarfree. Your hair is so soft did you use head and shoulders two in one . I did mom. Wanna try it . Yes. It intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. Manolo . Look at my soft hair. I should be in the shot now too. Try head and shoulders two in one. To keep our community safe. Before you do any project big or small, pg e will come out and mark your gas and electric lines so you dont hit them when you dig. Call 811 before you dig, and make sure that you and your neighbors are safe. Amid story after story after story after story after story of donald trump and administrations dismantling of democracy. The existence continues, protesters gathered outside the white house to welcome trump home after he kissed putins ring in helsinki. Telling him what they really think of his performance there. Did the same in time square here in new york city and today passionate kids gathering in several cities for the youth climate march. D. C. Event is Getting Started right now. Up next on a. M. Joy, look at the latest russian to get indicted. Stick around. And packages. And its also a story about people. People who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams theyre handing us more than mail theyre handing us their business and while we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. That your business is our business the United States postal service. Priority you i believe i would get alistening very nicely with putin. Okay. I mean when we have the strength. I dont think you need the sanctions. I think we would get along very, very well. The woman in that clip was maria butina. Russian National Indicted this week. Just hours after Donald Trumps statement to Vladimir Putin in helsinki. Took his word over that of the american Intelligence Community. Joining the panel now. Journalism professor on. Ill start with you here. She has been getting involved since 2011. Russian gun rights how it came to be that the russians took an interest in gun rights. I dont believe they had the equivalent of a Second Amendment in russia. No, paradox quickly putin does not allow private gun ownership in russia. What they were doing is what they always do. Just exploit a devisive issue. Gun violence and gun control in the u. S. I think its very important to emphasis the years in which this is taking place. That what torsion was doing goes back at least seven years. The planning for it probably proceeds that. That butina has been actively meeting with i dont even know how Many Republican officials and nra members for a very long time. For those who think this is spontaneously launched around the time trump declared president ial ambitions for 2016 campaign, youre sorely mistaken. This is long running russian plot in tandem with voluntary yuan american officials and representatives to the nra. They were absolutely willing to sacrifice american sovereignty to jeopardize snashl security for own aides. One more final point is people need to be looking at the money. They need to be looking at donations that the nra was giving to the republicans. Thats a long way to explain the republican renaissance to call out. That is another point. I think everyone focuses on donald trump as an individual. Russians have been interested in the party for a while. To the point sara just made in 2013 is when the person david keen and republican operative run for it. Traveled to something called the right to bear arms annual convention in moscow. Next year, she comes to Nra Convention. Special guest and is presentlied an nra womens luncheon. Shes attended every Nra Convention from 2014 to 2016. Some of the republicans shes been photographed with, scott walker, there he is. Both considered potential president ial candidates. Rick santorum did run for president. This guy, alexander. He claimed to be a gun activist working on behalf of the kremlin. Can you tell us about that. No, hes not a gun rights activist working for the kremlin. Hes a kremlin. Hes close to the inner circle of Vladimir Putin. Hes also very close to the russian mafia. In fact theres an indictment outstanding for him. Warrant for his arrest in spain. In spain and the state prosecutor. Working with the st. Petersburg mafia. Same mafia Vladimir Putin brought under control when he was liquidating the city of saint petersburg. So he appears to have been tasked out as the principal designate tee to come to the United States and coopt the american right using two groups, evangelicals and the National Rifle association. And the group that he made up right to bear arms as sara said, theres no right to bear arms in russia. There are less than i think its 700,000 hunting rifles and shotguns. You have to have state permission, registration, licensing, and total control of ammunition in that country. Its nothing. They coopted the american right in order to bring them in to become technically undermoscows control just like they did with every other conservative movement in europe. These do spedupes fell for it b pretty girl. Im going to come to the other part. Just for one more moment with sara. I have this handy little chart here. Im going to show you on the air as well. All of the people that maria butina intersected with, not just donald trump who you heard her asking the question at the event. Theres alexander to the right of her. You have Vladimir Putin out there. Look up to the upper and left. Up and left there is donald trump jr. Who she briefly met at one of these Nra Conventions. Shes got a lot of intersections. Should donald trump jr. Be worried about this indictment. Donald trump jr. If he is you know living in a country that actually has laws that he is held accountable to should be worried for a very long time. Donald trump jr. Put emails on twitter about a year ago showing that he had elicitly conspired with russia revealing that whole meeting. Im a little concerned he thought he could do that openly and be no consequences. Other russia mafia members of the mafia kremlin officials have been in plain site. Thats a pattern you see throughout the Republican Party. Donald trump jr. Is not unique in this respect. Now there finally are indictments, there are consequences. If thats going to continue, yes, donald trump jr. Certainly somebody who should be concerned. Let me come to you now on part two of this because theres the nra piece of it. Youve written an entire book about this thing called the family and the religious right and power. Quickly, at the 2016 and 2015 National Prayer breakfast events, butina met with unnamed american officials and very influential russians. Talk a little bit about that connection. Yes, i think butina, you go back to 2015, four days before trump announces presidency, she writes an article for conservative magazine and says look, theres two pillars to the american right. Its social conservatives and she understands its populist conservativ conservatives. Nra shes reaching the populous. Through the National Prayer breakfast shes reaching the social conservatives. This is National Prayer breakfast is run by an Organization Called the fellowship or the family. Oldest arguably most influential Christian Organization in washington. Specializes in providing access to elites. Theyre not interested in the masses. Whats interesting is we see not just butina this is not a case of her infiltrating the Prayer Breakfast, but in fact them reaching out to her. Some of their initial contact happens in moscow where they also run a Prayer Breakfast for government elites and where they met with butina and agreed to start working together on influential delegation that they could use to bring to the Prayer Breakfast and to forge relationships out of that. We see that in affidavits. She says thank you for the very important private meetings that followed and i look forward to further meetings where well share further information. Would you say that the russians over the years, not just with donald trump, but more broadly have i guess you could say infiltrated the religious right in this country. Yes, i think its fair to say theres almost a christian love affair with putins russia. Its partly shaped by his very fierce opposition to lgbtq rights. Not a personal opposition. Its more a political tactic for him. Thats enough for the American Christian rights. One leader calls him christianity. Franklin graham. Son of billy. Interesting, we have to get more on this. We havent really gotten into this russia angle on it. Very interesting. Coming up in next hour. Man who wrote the art of the deal, tells us why trump has such putin envy. Great rachel ma dough here to sense of all of this. Met. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making our thinnest longest lasting blades on the market. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Its about delivering a more comfortable shave every time. Invented in boston, made and sold around the world. Order now at gilletteondemand. Com. Gillette. The best a man can get. Your mornings were made for Better Things than psoriatic arthritis. As you and your rheumatologist consider treatments, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. Xeljanz xr is a oncedaily pill for psoriatic arthritis. Taken with methotrexate or similar medicines, it can reduce joint pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts, and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common, and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Xeljanz xr can reduce the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. Dont let another morning go by without talking to your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. Translator we can bring up the mr. Browder, in this particular case. Business associates of mr. Browder have earned over 1. 5 billion in russia. They never paid any taxes, neither in russia nor the United States. And yet the money escaped the country. They were transferred to the United States. One of the most shocking things to come out of that now infamous helsinki News Conference was putin calling out americanborn businessman and staunch putin critic bill browder by name and demanding russian operatives be able to interrogate him, along with several other americans. Even more shocking is the president of the United States donald trump called it, quote, an incredible offer, only to backtrack a few days later. Joining me is bill browder, head of the global magnitsky campaign. Thank you for joining me. Its great to be here. Bill, the most obvious question is, what did you think when you heard the dictator of russia call you out by name . Well, i should point out that for most americans, this is probably the first time theyve heard Vladimir Putin calling out my name, but hes been on me for a long time. And this is not the first time hes called out my name. Hes pretty much obsessed with me. Hes obsessed with me because i was the one who got the magaz e magnitsky in place, who was my lawyer sergei magnitsky, my lawyer in russia who was murder murdered. Hes got a lot of assets in the west and he thinks his money is at risk. Just so people are clear, when donald trump jr. Took that meeting in trump tower and talked about adoption, the response of russia to the magnitsky act, which we just put up the tenets of it, was to ban americans from adopting russian children. Do you believe there was a connection between the russians who met with donald trump jr. In trump tower and those russians who just got indicted for attacking our election . Well, the place where theres a direct connection is the russians who went to trump tower, brought in very clear, specific talking points. Those same talking points were the same talking points Vladimir Putin expressed very ar stick latly in the press conference in hell ki helsinki. What i can say for sure in my own opinion is the whole spin, this whole business of tax evasion, Hillary Clinton donations, et cetera, is something the russians have been banging on from the kremlin for a long time. Just to be i cant speak to the mueller indictment, though. Just to be clear, did you ever give any money to the Hillary Clinton campaign . Youre now a british national. Did you i gave no i gave no money to the to the Hillary Clinton campaign or any other campaign. Yeah. And, of course, during the president ial campaign, you were actually mentioned in that trump tower meeting, which is pretty extraordinary. I want to play for you fox news Chris Wallace interviewing Vladimir Putin on monday. One of the the real reason the mention of your name and Michael Mcfalls name integrating you frightens people. Why is it so many of the people that oppose vladimir put putin . Translator all of us have plenty of political rivals. Im pretty sure President Trump has political rivals. But they dont end up dead. Translator not always . Well havent president s been killed in the United States . Have you forgotten . Has canada been killed in russia or the United States . Or mr. King . All of us have our own set of domestic problems. Im not sure why he thinks mentioning the assassination of john f. Kennedy and Martin Luther king jr. Is to reassure people. Obviously, theres no proof that he ordered it himself, but they certainly are critics of Vladimir Putin and people he considers enemies that have ended up either dead or poisoned, not to mention people from britain. Are you afraid, i guess bluntly, bill, and are you taking precautions for your safety . Well, theres two issues. One is am i at risk of being killed by Vladimir Putins regime . The answer is, yes. Do i live in fear . Am i looking over my shoulder . Am i moderating my behavior . The answer is, no. Of course, im taking many precautions, as many as i can take. But at the end of the day, if theyre going to use chemical weapon poison on my doorknob, how do you prevent yourself from getting killed that way . If he really wants to get me, he will get me. I believe Vladimir Putin would like to kill me in a plausibly deniable way. Therefore, his strategy, his tactics are to try to get me back to russia to throw me into a russian prison and kill me in a russian prison the way they did sergei magnitsky, my lawyer. Do you fear the president would send you to russia, hand you over . For a couple of days he seemed to think it was a brilliant idea. It only took it required an act of congress, 980 before he sort of backtracked on that idea. Im appalled that President Trump didnt reject that idea out of hand within the first 30 seconds of it being asked of him. You and a lot of people. Bill browder, please be safe, sir. Take care of yourself, really. And thank you for your time. Eop. From fares to fee policies to our rewards program. And somehow putting you first made us first. I guess that makes us both number one. Low fares. Great service. Thats transfarency. [clap, clap, ding] thats transfarency. When heartburn hits. Fight back fast with tums smoothies. It neutralizes stomach acid at the source. Tum tum tum tum tums. Smoothies. And introducing new tums sugarfree. I think the russians need to know there are a lot of us who fully understand what happened in 2016, and it really better not happen again in 2018. Welcome back to am joy. After Donald Trumps fiasco in helsinki republicans found themselves in a now familiar position. Visibly uncomfortable with what the leader of their party was doing, quietly critical, including on background to reporters, but struggling to be anything but publicly submissive for fear of upsetting the die hard trump voter base. You heard Mitch Mcconnell trying to talk tough by warning russia not to interfere in our elections this year. Lets take a step back to 2016 and recall that it was mcconnell whom Vice President joe biden and others blame for undercutting the Obama Administrations response to russian interference in the 2016 election. By refusing to sign onto a bipartisan statement, condemning the interference and reportedly watering down a letter from congressional leaders urging states to help protect the election. Mcconnell, of course, denies that he did anything to hamper president obamas response and he joined other republicans in rebuking trump for his submissive performance in helsinki. It feels like the dam is breaking and, you know, people are and i was really glad to see people on both sides of the aisle condemning what happened yesterday strongly. So there was lots of damage done yesterday because the u. S. Decided to walk away from an affirmation of u. S. Values. I think it was a bad day for the president. I think he can fix it. I think he needs to fix it. I never thought id see an american president throw the Intelligence Community under the bus like that. But even that day of gentle criticism didnt last very long. With republicans racing to latch onto trumps incredible claim that he misspoke at that press conference by confusing the words would and wouldnt. I think its a big step forward when anybody in public life or anybody in private life admits they made a mistake. Its good to confess it and say youre sorry. I think people understand that it was a painful experience for him. Look, i think thats a positive step. Im just glad he clarified it. I cant read his intentions or what he meant to say at the time. Right on cue, mcconnell and fellow republicans are getting trump a get out of helsinki free card. Will they do anything at all to defend American Voters against a potential russian attack on the next election . Joining me now, michael singleton, and rick wilson, author of everything trump touches dies, a republican strategist. A subtle title in which you went for the sort of low burn. You didnt want to be too aus. N ill start with you. Mitch mcconnell coming out, trying to talk tough against russians comes amid all the reporting. Joe biden said then majority leader mcconnell stopped the Obama Administration from speaking about the russian interference, refused to sign onto a bipartisan agreement of condemnation. They feared it would play into the russians ambitions. Former obama chief of staff Dennis Mcdonagh saying point blank mcconnell watered down a bipartisan response telling states to protect themselves. The president asked the four leaders in a bipartisan meeting in the oval office to join him in asking the states to work with us on this question. It took over three weeks to get that statement worked out. It was dramatically watered down. You can ask harry reid and nancy pelosi, even the speaker it was watered down on the insistence of Mitch Mcconnell . Yes. And nobody else . Yes. Okay. And third little point of interest here, an april 2017 article saying the cia, which ive been reading over and over again this morning, had evidence of russian efforts to help donald trump, specifically to help donald trump, even though the fbi disagreed it was specifically for trump. The cia believed it was. And senator Mitch Mcconnell of kentucky, when he was briefed with the gang of eight, the republican majority leader resisted, questioning the underpinnings of the intelligence, according to officials with knowledge of the subject. Mcconnell agreed to a softer version of this letter which did not mention the russians but warned of unnamed malafactors. How can mr. Mcconnell have any credibility on russia given all that . I think i think Mitch Mcconnell probably regrets those decisions at this point because the scope of what russia has done and continuing to do to our country is becoming clearer by the minute. Im going to give him the small squig of doubt to say this is an area where he thought it might have been political and thought it might have had something that wasnt on the up and up. He wanted to ask the questions. However, anyone who really dove into that intelligence then or now recognizes the scope of this. On the plus side for Mitch Mcconnell, hes not done what paul ryan has done. Paul ryan has allowed devin nunes and this clown caucus in the house to limit investigations into the fbi as part of trumps defense team. Mcconnell has kept his hands off the intel team in the senate. I will say this, everyone now knows the score. No one gets a pass going forward. No one gets a pass in the last six months because the Intel Community has made it incredibly clear. Every single part of the Intel Community is in 100 agreement that the russians did this. The russians wanted this for Donald Trumps benefit. Going forward, the russians are continuing to put the thumb on the scale of american politics. Nobody gets a pass from here. No one gets to say, well, theres something questionable about it or one person in one agency has a dissenting view. This is categorical. This is absolutely night and day. Youve even had will hurd, a republican from a safe district in texas, come out and do an oped, hes a former cia agent, saying trump is being manipulated by Vladimir Putin. What should we do . This is a stalwart republican coming out and saying this. To ricks point, you see a difference between the way the Senate Intelligence committee and house Intelligence Committee are handling this, now knowledge everyone should share that russias interfered. But do you see, just in your reporting, any desire on the part of Senate Republicans to act proactively to defend the next election against russian intrusion . We havent seen efforts to protect robert mueller. We certainly dont see them wanting to do that. But are they still looking at this through the political lens of protect donald trump more than protect the election . Yeah, the short answer to that is no. There has been really no appetite on the part of republicans in either chamber of congress, frankly, to put more efforts into protecting the election systems, giving states more money, investing into cyber protections. We havent seen any of that. Thats something that all it takes is the word from Mitch Mcconnell or paul ryan to send bills like that to the floor, that could pass with an overwhelming vetoproof majority if they want to do that, as well as protect the Mueller Investigation. I think whats protecting the president right now and his ability to despite the fact republicans are sometimes uncomfortable with what he does and says, like the hell sink h summit, are polls. Republicans know overwhelmingly are on his side and that means mcconnell, paul ryan and other Republican Leaders in congress are not going to act in ways that are against him. Theyre not going to put in place policies that he doesnt want, such as a bill to protect the Mueller Investigation or to boost election protections. Yeah, they passed a condemnation. The Senate Passed a condemnation of his behavior in helsinki or of this proposal that Vladimir Putin had to hand over americans and also have essentially outsourced part of the Mueller Investigation to moscow, which was ridiculous on its face, but thats nonbinding. It doesnt really do anything other than sort of shake a finger at the president. That seems to be as far as theyre going to go because they dont want to lose the support that the president has overall from the party. That doesnt speak well for the party itself, the more important thing is the polls. To the point you just made, kimberly, here is the axios latest poll that says approve or disapprove of how trump handled his press conference in helsinki. 18 disapprove, and some think he did a great job. Lets play rand paul, senator rand paul of kentucky and ill come to you on this. Actually saying, doesnt matter, even if the russians did it. Well, we also have to understand that we have to deal with the world as it is, not as we wish it to be. If were only going to talk to people who have perfect constitutional republicans, well have a very small audience and a lot of potential conflict with no outlet for diplomacy. I think its a mistake for people to try to turn this into a partisan escapade. Explain to our audience who are gob smacked that a third of our country thinks that that meeting went well in helsinki and that it isnt a big deal if russians interfered in the election. I think a lot of conservatives, at least individuals who voted for the president , you have heard this message or this line time and time again, that, yeah, he made a mistake here, but look at what were getting, right . Earlier you were talking about evangelicals. Why do they continue to stick with the president . Because they got one Supreme Court justice. Theyre likely going to get another. Individuals are looking at tangible things that sort of benefit them individually over the overall country. Theyre saying, well, i am getting this or we are getting this, so im going to stick with him regardless. Look, joy, i never imagined that the russians would have an asset in the president. Theyve always had spies, et cetera, in our country, but just imagine having the president of the United States of america essentially throw our country under the bus. Thats unprecedented. Republicans in congress, the house and the senate, are only concerned about selfpreservation because, again, to that poll from axios, theyre looking at the numbers and they see a majority of the Republican Base are sticking with the president. Because theyre concerned with their seats and all the stature that comes with it, theyre not willing to speak out aggressively enough. I can only tell you, joy, i think were going to fill that burn come midterms and beyond. Rick, theres a piece in the Washington Post that says the entire Republican Party is a russian asset. It may be because they convinced themselves that no tactic is too repugnant and no moral compromise too loathsome when youre serving the lofty goal of keeping democrats from power or it may be theyre terrified the base is sufficient to trump. Do you agree with paul waldman . This is the greatest intelligence coup. The russians have compromised an american president thoroughly, completely and evidently and they have thoroughly compromised the Republican Party and the congress that should be a constitutional check and balance on him, a coequal branch of government. The russians didnt have to go and set something up to lure congress in. They just knew once trump was in, that his celebrity and his cult would be the enforcers for him. I think paul is right, the president is utterly compromise and the congress look, i dont think congress is the majority of them, maybe dana or others are swinging around with russians. The ones i speak to all the time, including those that go out on tv with the red hat on and say trump is the best, they call and go, oh, my god, this is a disaster. Were being dragged down to serve Vladimir Putin. The nato summit shook so many members of the senate and the house, you had thought they already hit bottom. Then he went into helsinki and went into gimp act with putin. Up, theyre shocked, theyre stunned, but terrified of the base. Theyre terrified these guys the minute you Say Something wrong about donald trump, their facebook feeds and phones blow up and Death Threats and this craziness from the trump right that wont quit. And they are intimidated by it. Theyre not leaders, theyre a cleanup crew. I wonder if they are also concerned about russia because this New York Times story, this is from april of 2017, but ive been rereading it this morning, makes it very clear that the cia was very clear in their assessment that not only did russians infiltrate the dnc and the dccc but they also infiltrated russian systems. States states that were controlled by the Republican Party, their election systems. But also the rnc. Are republicans on the hill not concerned that at a certain point if they dont behave themselves exactly as the russians want, that maybe information on them will come out . You know, i think in the past i heard a lot more from republicans with respect to russian interference. Thereby, the grace of god go us. You know, this time they tried to help one side, another time they will try to help another side and elections our election systems have to be protected. I think this has become overshadowed as we get closer to the midterms about a desire to stay on point with the president , not to push back against him too hard, not too to upset the base. So, it has not been that kind of response. What i hear more often from republicans now is, oh, well, i wish the president would focus on the economy. I wish the president would focus on immigration. Theyre thinking a lot more about the Midterm Election messaging than the fact that this is this was an attack on election systems of the United States that could go either way. And i wonder if when youre speaking with your fellow republicans, what happens if dan coates is right and we have a digital 9 11 . What if the next attack isnt on the election system. What its if its on a grid, wall street, a bank, what will republicans do then . I think republicans will ultimately be responsible if such an act occurs because they have done much of nothing. Look, i think the Republican Party, at least the Republican Party as we once knew it, is dead. This is now the party of trump. The conservative philosopher burke wrote, we must conform. Its long overdue for the Republican Party to truly check the president of the United States. That is why we have a separation of branches. Theres a dereliction of duty here. Im a republican. Ive alleges been one. I think come november the American People have to send a message to the Republican Party and donald trump. Meaning a message what message . A message that were not taking this anymore. Yeah. Well, thank you all very much. Appreciate you being here. Thank you. Up next, the art of the deal coauthor Tony Schwartz decodes the trump helsinki debacle. [ coughs ] [ screams ] [ laughs ] whoa, whoa, whoa. Your one item would be the name your price tool . It helps people save on car insurance. Why wouldnt it save me . Why . What would you bring . A boat. Huh. Better things than rheumatoid arthritis. Before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. Xeljanz xr is a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough it can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts, and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Dont let another morning go by without talking to your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. I mean, i had these some of these fools from the media saying, why didnt you stand there, look him in the face, walk over to him and start shouting at him . I said, are these people crazy . I want to make a deal. I want to make a deal. You cant do that. Im different than other president s. Im a dealmaker. Ive made deals all my life. I make great deals. So, what is the real deal with donald trump and Vladimir Putin . Joining me now, someone whos experienced trump up close and personal, Tony Schwartz, author of. You worked on the art of the deal. The book came out in 86 . 87. I want to play you trump on the Oprah Winfrey show in 1988, the year after the book came out. Take a listen. I know people have talked to you about whether or not you want to run. Would you ever . Probably not, but i do get tired of seeing the country ripped why would you not . I just dont think i really have the inclination to do it. I really love what im doing. Also it doesnt pay as well. But, you know, i just probably wouldnt do it, oprah. I probably wouldnt. But i do get tired of seeing what happened with this country. If it got so bad, i would never rule it out totally because i really am tired of seeing whats happening with this country, how were really making other people live like kings and were not. Its extraordinary because its the same rhetoric about were getting ripped off. Back then it was japan. Now its china. And we know he did think about running for president , so that wasnt even true. Is this the same person that we see today . Its a person who is de minimumished and who is i always use this word, decompensated, which probably isnt a great word because its not easily understood. But i really do think unraveling. When youre facing the kind of pressure that hes facing look, the presidency itself is an enormous pressure. Obamas hair got grayer and grayer. But then you add the fact that not only is the the multiple investigations closing in on him, but he knows what theyve got. Right. And so what happens to a person whos psychologically unstable in that situation, they begin to double down on all the things hes always done. Hes always grandiose. Hes more grandiose now, which means hes living inside his reality. What is so baffling to us is that we operate by looking at reality in a much broader perspective. But hes reinventing it every day inside his own head. And i think he mostly believes it. The second thing is that his paranoia is way greater. Listen, paranoia sometimes makes sense and hes right to believe people are after him, but each of these things that makes him more unstable is increasing in intensity. And i think im glad you made that point, that the things that were already true about him get amplified. Back in the 80s he was obsessed with russia, being ambassador and ending the threat of nuclear war. Thats intensified over time. You tweeted on friday, heres a question, is the reason trump invited putin to a second meeting at the white house after the first was such a disaster is putin told trump to do so because he owns trump . Is that what you think . I do. I dont know that he invited that he insisted on inviting him. I do believe that putin owns trump. All you have to do joy, this is really what i think the media needs to be more focused on, which is forget the idea of parsing whether its a double negative or not. He lied would or wouldnt. Would or wouldnt. The man lies. Say the facts and move on. Do not sit here and try to figure out whether donald trump might have actually misspoken. We know he misspoke he didnt miss speak. We know this is a man whos told 3200 lies during the last year and a half. I mean, come on. We know thats what he does. So, lets just focus on the facts and not get into his game. This is his game. He wants you to parse this because what he wants to do is he wants to objecti have i skat, and trust that you cant trust any truth. That plays into his hands. Yes, you can trust a truth. This is a cup. This is not a magic marker. Period. Lets say those things and move on. How does this end . I mean, do you see donald trump ever being held to account for the things hes done, or allowing himself to be . I see a very clear i for a long time, like many people, thought reason would pull over those people who are either on trumps side in a moderate way or possibly even those who were very much republican but felt they couldnt tolerate his character defects. I no longer believe that. Its quite obvious theres somewhere between 30 and 40 of the population who are goinging to support trump, just as he says, even if he shoots people on fifth avenue. Even if he stands next to the russian president and takes his side. Our focus needs to be on the 60 of america that is outraged by what theyre seeing. All that needs to happen is for those people to come out and vote. So, thats the first thing. Is we have to keep hope alive for the next six months i shouldnt even say six months. Its three months, four months. Its somewhere in between those two. Its november. Keep hope alive. Keep this very clear and urge people to come out and vote. Thats number one. Number two, look, theyve got him. Mueller has got him. Michael cohen through the Southern District is a is a powerful voice and actually has his voice. So, those are two ways that we are going to see this president tamed, i believe. Now, listen, it is wild card in this is if he decides, im just going to call off elections or shut down the media, except for the state media, which would be fox and breitbart and so on. So, thats why we dont know for sure, but i do see that this week in particular creates an incredible message for the democrats, for the opposition, which is, do you want putin to be president or do you want an american to be president . Wow. Period. Wow. Summed up by Tony Schwartz. Thank you very much. Still to come, an update on the status of Migrant Children separated from their parents. Your hair is so soft did you use head and shoulders two in one . I did mom. Wanna try it . Yes. It intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. Manolo . Look at my soft hair. I should be in the shot now too. Try head and shoulders two in one. Sfx [cell phone dialing] no. No, no, no, no, no. Cancel. Cancel. Please. Aaagh being in the know is a good thing. Thats why discover will alert you if your Social Security number is found on any one of thousands of risky sites. With just five days to go before a courtimposed deadline, the Trump Administration is making slow progress on reuniting children from their parents. Nbc news reports as of friday the government has reunified 450 children between the age of 5 and 17, leaving 2,000 kids still separated from their parents, with less than a week to go before the deadline. Well have much more on this story tomorrow. Up next, what the great Rachel Maddow has to say. Is a l and packages. Is a l and its also a story about people. People who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams theyre handing us more than mail theyre handing us their business and while we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. That your business is our business the United States postal service. Priority you you like to be in control. Especially when it comes to important stuff. Like, say. Your car. Well, good news. The esurance app lets you keep an eye on your repairs when your car is in the shop. Its kinda like being there, without being there. Which is probably better for everyone. Thats insurance for the modern world. Esurance. An allstate company. Click or call. I dont know about you, but we here at am joy our heads have been spinning with the nonstop barrage of news this week, so i turned to our inhouse expert of making sense of all things madness. Rachel maddow. I feel like we have spent the last two years doing one story, right . Doing a lot of different angles on this one story. We keep in a way, i feel, getting tricked turning point, turning point, turning point. Things keep feeling like a turning point. I wonder from your point of view, having done this, again, two years, did helsinki feel like a turning point in this russia saga . The thing that feels new after helsinki is that the country is shook up and freaked out about it. I mean, the president being oddly and inexplicably and complete complete completely defferntial to Vladimir Putin is no big surprise. The thought of him doing that to his face, instead of on their bat phone or whoever they communicate. But the fact he did that in person standing next to putin that shook the country. And i think i dont think republicans are excluded from that. And so i think what that means is the president is not necessarily doing anything new but all of a sudden the country has new clarity about the extremity of the concern about the president. Its not just did the president get help from russia to win his election . Yes, there is. What kind of documentation is there and what evidence will ultimately turn up about whether his campaign knowingly accepted that help or maybe worked collectively with the russians to pull off their hack, that continues to be the legal battle that we watch unfold, but theres this base level question. Like maybe weve taken so many turning points, weve turned so many corners, were back where we started. The basic question rung so loud for everybody in the country this week was, is our president subordinate to a foreign power . Does our president answer to a Foreign Government and a foreign leader . And thats private meeting with putin where nobody knows what he promised. The way he responded to putin when we saw him facetoface and then the fact that he took under consideration all of these demands from russia, including handing over americans to russia for interrogation. That just you know, it makes the worst Case Scenario palpable. The fact that the. The is a Foreign Agent feels palpable. There are two ways to look at the way donald trump responded to Vladimir Putin. He did sh rings before our eyes standing next to him. Either donald trump is ideologically aligned with Vladimir Putin and he shares his world view and he couldnt hide is it because he shares it or to your reporters eye did that look like intimidation . I dont know. I dont know body language and i dont know those two things where exclusive to each other. You know, the more that i talk to intelligence professionals and people who have brought espionage cases and people who have dealt with spy movie scenarios in real life, the more you hear the behavior of a compromised person, a person who is effectively coerced because of something, not a foreign leader, a Foreign Government, Foreign Intelligence Service has over them, the more subtle the signs can be. It may not be totally transactional. It may not be, weve got this thing about you that were going to expose unless you do our bidding. Therefore, hand us this secret. It may not always be transactional. It may be theres just a fear factor where that person who is compromised knows they need to align themselves in every way completely with the views and the preferences of the person who has something on them. So, it may be that they just line up all of their values, their policy positions, their ideologies, anything else you need so theyll never be out of step with the person who effectively controls them. You dont need a pay me back, pay me back, pay me back transactional interaction in order to live as a compromised person and betray your country in that way. The thing you said it on your show. I think the whole country agreed with you on this, the thing that felt different to me was this idea of handing over an american, of handing over an american diplomat, saying, you can take Michael Mcfall and interrogate him. Thats a brilliant idea. He called it what did he it was a tremendous idea or tremendous offer. Tremendous offer. A tremendous offer. Very fascinating. He not only praised the offer when he got it, the offer to hand over former u. S. Ambassador and american citizen says to russia for interrogation. People who putin very clearly wants dead, not only did he praise it in front of putin, he came back to washington and mulled it over for four freaking days before he said no. Allowing the white house secretary to say, hes talking it over with his team. Yes, thats being considered. Ultimately when the president turned it down, it was a compliment to putin and the sincerity with which putin made that demand. The depth of the suborder nation of the president to the russian president , for whatever reason, is no longer in question. We can all see it happening. We dont know the origin story of how that came to be. Now, with this dynamic effectively controlling the president. Incredible offer, which is incredible offer. In time for the midterm. So, i want to read you a little bit of the washington Greg Sergeant, the Washington Post, and he writes about this anger that youre hearing from the white house or the alarm inside the white house, which one would guess and presume would be because of helsinki but its actually because of dni coates, and the interview coates gave to andrea mitchell. Th at moments coates appeared to be laughing to the president , playing to his audience of intellectual elite in a manner sure to infuriate President Trump. The going rogue asserting there were ongoing attacks on our electoral system and saying there are attacks on us is going rogue. Does that surprise you at this point . No, it doesnt surprise me. There are two dynamics that Greg Sergeant is talking about and one is the president s personal insecurities and needing to be praised and fear of being laughed at and all that personal stuff, which weve seen in action. Im not a great believer in president ing president s on the couch and trying to understand, what was your childhood like that made you this way and how does that affect your Supreme Court choices . Im not that person, but the other thing that hes talking about there is exactly what you said. To the extent coats substantively went rogue on the friday before the helsinki summit he gave a speech where he said, this is like 9 11, this is the red warning lights blinking, this is we need to be as we need to be aware that the risk to the country right now is as strong as the risk was before 9 11. And then he went on to talk about the russia threat, including ongoing threat to democracy and our election systems. That right before helsinki, the timing there wasnt a coincidence. And then in his interview with andrea, i mean, he talked about the how we need to be cognizant of the fact that russia is led by a former kgb agent and its not a good idea to have a u. S. President meet with a russian leader without a note taker present and the possibility that the russians did possibly create a recording of that meeting. Its intel 101 stuff. It shouldnt be an affront for the president to hear this stuff but it is because of the weird circumstance were in. Just whether or not the russians recorded that meeting. He said, is it possible they had a tape recorder in there . He said, yes, its possible. We dont know what trump and putin talked about in that room. We dont know what trump may have conceded or promised or given away, what he might have told him. In terms of u. S. Secrets. But because we have to assume the russians made a recording there, the russians not only know what happened in that room because putin was there, they have a recording that they can manipulate to their desire. So, whatever they want to make it seem like trump said, whatever theyre going to take to the bank, when they need to say, hey, the u. S. President gave us permission to do this, theyre absolutely free to doctor that tape if they need to. Whatever trump actually said is probably bad enough, but whatever they want to make him say, they can retro actively do. And theres no american rebuttal to it because there were no americans in that room other than trump and the translator to keep him honest. Hopefully the translator will testify before congress. Speaking of recordings, Michael Cohen, just when we thought we had our show planned this weekend, Michael Cohen recorded trump, something trump was surprised about. Which im surprised he would be surprised. What does that story then do to this overall narrative . We already have well, what does that story do to this narrative . I have a contrary take to this story. Its definitely of interest that the president s personal lawyer was at least i dont know if he was in the habit. He at least wants recorded a conversation with the president. I am interested in whether or not he waived Attorney Client privilege, how that factored into the big fight happening in the Southern District of new york as to what was seized by federal agents from cohens home and office and his Security Deposit box safety deposit box and all that stuff. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. The reason the story broke in the New York Times today, im absolutely convinced, is because through the process of sharing information with the president s legal team, in the Southern District of new york, because of this pending criminal case against Michael Cohen, the president s lawyers decided to get out ahead of this. They found out during the process of going through the evidence that was seized through Michael Cohen, the president s lawyers found out, that tape of you talking about paying karen mcdougle, thats one of the things the prosecutors are going to get here. Thats one of the things michael had. And so im absolutely convinced i may be proven wrong, but looking at this today, i think this is something that the president s legal Team Released to try to get out ahead of it. Thats why we got these bizarre statements from Rudy Giuliani. Its exculpatory, it clears the president. For one, he wanted to pay by check. Theyre doing that, one, to get out ahead of the story so theyre breaking it on their own terms and its not a surprise bombshell further down the road when it could do further damage. It lands at a time when maybe it puts a final point on people talking about russia all week long. Lets distract them with this. The other thing is it takes away Michael Cohens ability to negotiate with prosecutors for a good deal if he flips. If this is one of the really potent things he had to offer prosecutors, dont put me in jail, look what ive got. This has now had the power sapped. That puts Michael Cohen in a less good negotiating position in terms of why he might flip. That, to me, makes much more sense than, you know, somebody inside sdny let this go. Doesnt seem to have been leaked from the cohen side. It seems to have been leaked from the trump side and theyre trying to sap the power of that recording. I have come to trust your theories when you Say Something. Its more often than not if if im completely wrong about this, ill take you out for tacos. Thats one of my Favorite Foods so ill take you up on that. Thats because youre a human being. If you throw some st. Germain with the tacos now im hoping im wrong. Thank you very much. Appreciate you, my friend. Is rachel not the best . Yes, she is the best. Coming up, the reverend al and his conversation with Michael Cohen. Reverend al sharpton coming up next. Ooh, heaven is a place on earth uhp. I didnt believe it. Again. Ooh, baby, do you know what thats worth . I want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ooh im not hearing the confidence. Okay, hold the name your price tool. Power of options based on your budget and well make heaven a place on earth yeah oh, my angels ooh, heaven is a place on earth [ sobs quietly ] ooh, heaven is a place on earth whoooo. Tripadvisor makes finding your perfect hotel. Relaxing. Just enter your destination and dates. Tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites to find the hotel you want for the lowest price. Dates. Deals. Done tripadvisor. Its Pretty Amazing out there. The world is full of more possibilities than ever before. And American Express has your back every step of the way whether its the comfort of knowing help is just a call away with global assist. Or getting financing to fund your business. No one has your back like American Express. So where ever you go. Were right there with you. The powerful backing of American Express. Dont do business without it. Dont live life without it. [ speaking nonenglish ] he acts like an agent of the kremlin. Donald trump is still absorbing ridicule over his treatment in helsinki and from none other than russian state tv. As you just heard. Joining me now is mosha guessen author. And just to bring our conversation in the break forward for the audience, we were talking about the fact that there is this theory that the only reason that donald trump is being puppeteered by Vladimir Putin is either fear or kompromat. But it could be he believes what putin believes. I think so. He has great admiration for the dictators of the world. We have seen him act in a similar way toward other dictators. But putin happens to be his favorite dictator. Putin is the person he wants to be. He has the kind of control as we heard him talk about during the election. He has the kind of control of his country. He also has the kind of popularity numbers. Theyre totalitarian but that is what trump would like to be. He would like to be adored by 86 of the population. He would like to be powerful and admired. But at the same time, just physically watching the two men together, trump is much larger, but he seemed to shrink down and really physically subordinate himself to Vladimir Putin. Do you think hes afraid of him . Well, i dont im not an expert in body language. It was an extraordinary thing to watch. We have seen trump remove step in front of the queen. Shove the president of montenegro aside during a photo. That is very unusual. He is deferential but he admires putin and wants to be like him and be friends with him. And putin doesnt like mont neggo sand trump, who i doubt knows much about montenegro, doesnt like montenegro. We cant under the rule of putin is not a star preparer but he does go in with names and numbers and his technique is to drown in information. A lot of it erroneous but still a lot of information. And trump, he goes in unprepared. Hes never heard of montenegro. And putin said montenegro is bad and he thinks it is bad. And was he playing and faking that for trump. Putin is a conspiracy theorist. The two men share a couple of things and they watch their own tv. Putin has been watching his own tv for nearly 20 years at this point. So he has conspiracy theories. Those conspiracy theories are reflected back to him by television. He believes in them all the more. And it is the same dynamic we see with trump and fox and friends except that putin happens to dominate his own television so it is more directly his own. Ive been reading all of the stories from back in from Donald Trumps obsession with the then soviet union back in the 80s when he object of his fixation was gorbachev and a Nobel Prize Winner out of boston talks about the fact that donald trump summoned him to trump tower to talk about the fixation when he had a bigger vocabulary the ambassador to moscow and personally negotiate with gorbachev and got faked by what he thought came to the trump tower. But he is living out his 80s fantasy of interacting with russia. That is fascinating. It certainly seems like this. I think the whole country is living out of the some 80s fears and fantasy. And im hearing them on the floor chanting usa and were going into this cold war rhetoric and the game of analysis of what would be more effective. Because it is so bizarre to see the president of the United States act this way and turn over americans to russia. What is a a rational response to it look like . I think it would be more effective to focus not on theories of what putin has on trump, but on trumps manifest incompetence. We know this. We dont need any Additional Information to react to it. And also to focus on what is going on with immigration. Instead of talking about helsinki for a week. Well, you have preview of russia tomorrow and you are right and what is happening at border is horrifying and we should not lose sight. It is a pleasure to talk you to. And i was complimenting your outfit. Ill do it on tv. More am joy after the break. Ive been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making americas 1 shave. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. That is our show for today. Well be back tomorrow at 10 00 a. M. And al and alex wit. Im jealous you have the rev on. I said debacle or is it debacle. Here is the deal. Because youre my sister from another mother i will back you up, but i think it is a debacle and a debacle. Ill go with either or. Year a