Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20210406

Antidemocratic ways, ways that morphed into republicanled efforts to change voting across the country, in response to having lost a big democratic election. And certain corporations have taken the position its wrong, republicans have vowing to cancel even the most american of institutions, major League Baseball, cocacola, american airlines, dell computers. Republicans believe they should be able to crack down on Voting Rights without consequences but there have been consequences. Major League Baseball moved allstar game out of georgia after it passed Voter Suppression law and number of companies have called that bill and others in other states unacceptable and republicans are having an absolute hissy fit. Major League Baseball has caved to the cancel culture. These corporations are going to face the wrath of gop officials and tens of millions of American Consumers who support them. Major League Baseball believes it has veto power over the democratic process. Is it time for american conservatives to cancel sports and then theyd start to respect us a little bit . Cancel sports . Remember the context. In georgia to take one example, had record turnout in the november election, remember that . Vote was recounted three times, audited, had three recounts, one by hand, no substantial fraud whatsoever. Indeed whole enterprise there which we can lose sight of, it as massively successful election as their own republican secretary of state said. But republicans decided to respond to losing in the president ial election and senate with new restrictions on voting. This is not Rocket Science why theyre doing that. Clearly because they didnt like losing. Hoping this law will make it harder for their opponents supporters to vote and make it easier for them to win, its part of broader attack on the foundations of democratic principles. First remember conservatives pushed big lie about the election, that it was stolen and rigged. Now legislating in state after state to quote unquote restore the integrity of their elections and bunch of them nodded and winked at insurrection that left a Police Officer dead. Not surprisingly, half of republicans falsely believe the trump siege on the capitol was nonviolent protest for it was leftwing activists trying to make trump look bad. Theres a Straight Line from the republican effort to crack down on voting. Both explicit attempts to subvert the functioning of our democracy. Heres the problem, in radicalizing against democracy, theyve grown divorced from basic mainstream american norms theyre lashing out at wider and wider circles of american life. But being on the wrong side of major League Baseball or coke hasnt caused republicans to second guess themselves, reassess what theyre doing, are we the bad guys . No they just whine more hysterically about how persecuted they are. Georgia stripped delta of a tax break for speaking out. Question was the tax break good policy before and bad now . Which was the right position, georgia republicans . But fundamental problem for republicans while they have a hammer lock on part of the country theyre growing ever more estranged from rest of it and more angry. Leading to preposterous performative culture war spectacles. Texas Governor Greg Abbott backing out of throwing the Texas Rangers first pitch this year, his state senate just also passed restrictive voting bill, and darkly comic intimations of using the state to punish corporations not under vision of political economy, policy, regulation but explicitly as punishment for them not having the right politics. My advice to the corporate ceos of america is stay out of politics. Dont pick sides in these big fights. Stay out of politics, stay out of politics says republican leader Mitch Mcconnell to business today. Also said parts of the private sector keep dabbling in behaving like a woke parallel government, dont you love how they appropriated that word . Threated consequences if they attack the country from outside the Constitutional Order. Keep quiet about republican Voter Suppression or else. What is outside the Constitutional Order of private corporation expressing a view . Whats insane is corporations have of course propped up Republican Party for decades. In middle of the pandemic last year Mitch Mcconnells biggest priority as people are dying unprecedented numbers, day after day, laserlike focus of that guy there was to make sure corporations were protected from covid related lawsuits. Thats what he was concerned about. And Donald Trumps most significant legislative accomplishment by far thanks to Mitch Mcconnell and paul ryan and others is massively cut Corporate Taxes which joe biden is trying to raise among opposition from Corporate America and drum roll, the Republican Party. Is it possible that all the pillars of american culture, soda to baseball to airlines, have all decided to come together to persecute republicans for no good reason, or could it be that republicans have sailed so far off the map and alienated from democratic traditions, even their allies have no stomach for it. Which is more likely. Perhaps no one i would rather talk to about republican supposed anticorporate turn than independent senator Bernie Sanders of vermont, good to have you. Youve been a critic of Corporate Power for a very long time. So i imagine you feel very excited to have all these new collaborators and comrades to link arms with you to seriously take on Corporate Power in america from the republican side. Its just extraordinary, chris, after a trillion dollars of tax breaks, lowering the Corporate Tax rate, after protecting the pharmaceutical industry for charging us by far highest prices for prescription drugs, et cetera, et cetera, Mitch Mcconnell and friends are now upset that some corporations are now saying it is an outrage that in georgia theyre trying to destroy democracy and make it harder for people of color and low income people to vote. All of this is nothing more than a deflection, you made the point well, deflection from the reality that all over this country what republicans are doing is trying to protect their interests by making it harder for people voting against them to participate in the political process. That means minorities, young people, people not sympathetic to their rightwing agenda, and our job is among other things to pass hr1, an important piece of legislation which says in america if youre 18 years of age, no matter what they do in georgia or anyplace else, you got the right to vote. Right. That we get rid of, move forward to address Citizens United and by the way, as you know, Mitch Mcconnell was the Biggest Senate defender of Citizens United. Yes and ability of corporations to buy elections. Amazing thing to watch Mitch Mcconnell of all people, the named plaintiff to sue against mccain feingold, biggest pusher of Citizens United. He has as a first principle belief that corporate right to speak is sacrosanct, to say ceos stay out of politics, astonishing sentiment for that man to honor. We know longer say the word astonishing in washington, d. C. Our republican friends now are going to do everything to win elections, including excessive gerrymandering, and cant think of any issue more important than making sure americans can participate in the political process. It is interesting and strange to me, not coming from vision of political economy like criticisms youve levelled at amazon or walmart is coming from. Marco rubio, the amazon unionization drive, youre outspoken in support of it. Marco rubio saying i dont really like unions, and tend to side with corporations over them but because amazons cultural pronouncements are bad, i now support the union sort of. Seeing more of this, that republicans should use the mechanisms of regulation of the state to punish speech and interventions politically by corporations. What do you think of that . I take a little bit different take. I think the Republican Party now, and certain leaders of the party, are trying to pretend theyre a party of the working class. These what theyre trying to do. Obviously thats total nonsense. What theyre trying to do is appeal to workingclass people in terms of racial politics, homophobic politics, xenophobic politics. And our job, which takes me to what were trying to do with reconciliation here, democrats loudly and proudly have to be the party of the working class in this country and be prepared to take on the greed of Corporate America, need to be passing second reconciliation bill, dealing not only with physical infrastructure and creating millions of good paying jobs, we need to deal with human infrastructure, health care, education, climate change. Yeah. Making sure every kid in this country gets quality education he or she needs, does not leave School Deeply in debt. One of the issues im working on in the new reconciliation package is the need to expand medicare to cover dental, hearing aids, eyeglasses, because millions of seniors cant afford those. Lower medicare eligibility to 60 so a lot more people can get into that important program. Mentioned second reconciliation package, theres interesting context. When the covid rescue passed, saw republicans railing against dr. Seuss, didnt make a particularly concerted or effective argument against that package. Today theres a ruling from senate parliamentarian, and we dont have to get caught up in process but you get another shot at reconciliation bill that can pass with 50 votes. Yes. How big of a deal is that . Game changer . Pretty big deal. For the legislative horizon for democrats. Its important because it gives us a little more flexibility, dont have to push everything into one bill. In other words, right now, what this new reconciliation package is about is dealing with longterm structural problems. Everybody knows our physical infrastructure is collapsing. We know we can create millions of jobs, transforming our Energy System away from fossil fuel, but also we have got to deal with human infrastructure. We cannot continue being only major country on earth that doesnt have paid family and medical leave. We have the opportunity now to substantially lower student debt to make public colleges and universities tuition free, to expand health care. Were behind many other major countries on earth in guaranteeing basic economic rights to working families, and we have got to move forward. This opportunity to do that and ruling from the parliamentarian gives us a little bit more opportunity in that direction. To bring to the final point and end a little bit where we began, my understanding is one of the big fights is going to be on the Corporate Tax rate, a huge policy fight in which the Democratic Party is going to try to raise taxes for corporations and republican will not give a single vote for it. I havent lost my mind, thats one of the big policy fights . I know you will be shocked after mcconnells vehement anticorporate rant today that he will vote vigorously and lead the opposition against asking large corporations and wealthy to start paying fair share of taxes. I know youll be shocked at that revelation. Senator Bernie Sanders, chair of the Senate Budget committee, site of a lot of action in these days. Thanks for your time tonight. Thank you very much. All right. You know when youre buying something online, checked out cart, filled everything out. Bottom of the last page theres a little box you can check that says yes, sign me up for coupons, newsletters or whatever, sometimes companies precheck that box for you, and you need to be the one to catch it and uncheck it, no, actually, keep your emails. We all know that. Imagine that leaving that box checked didnt simply inundate inbox but would drain your bank account . Thats what the Trump Campaign was doing to their own supporters. Ill explain how after this. Did you know prilosec otc can stop frequent heartburn before it begins . Prilosec otc uses a unique delayedrelease formula that works to turn down acid production, blocking heartburn at the source. With just one pill a day, you get 24hour heartburn protection. Take the prilosec otc twoweek challenge. And see the difference for yourself. Prilosec otc, 1 pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. So youre a small business, or a big one. You were thriving, but then. Oh. Ah. Okay. Plan, pivot. How do you bounce back . You dont, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. Powered by the largest gig Speed Network in america. But is it secure . Sure its secure. And even if the power goes down, your connection doesnt. So how do i do this . You dont do this. We do this, together. Bounce forward, with comcast business. Imagine one day went to Check Bank Account and it was empty, wiped out. Imagine it was former president of the United States who took it all. According to New York Times investigation thats what happened with stacy black, a kansas city man battling cancer in hospice and living on less than 1,000 a month. He died in february. Thats his brother holding the picture of him. In september, a staunch donald trump supporter, donated 500, everything he could spare, to Donald Trumps campaign. Then another 500 was withdrawn next day, and every week through midoctober without his knowledge until his bank account had been depleted and frozen. The Trump Campaign took 3,000 from him in less than a month. Times reports it was intentional scheme to raise money. Trump campaign alongside a forprofit company, win red, began forcing donors to read through the fine print to opt out of the recurring donations. March, not desperate, this appeared, make it monthly recurring donation. In june, second box asking for second donation underneath, now got to uncheck both. In august, monthly recommended donation was changed to weekly. About four times as much money every month. A subtle change with enormous impact. Soon the section explaining weekly recurring donation was taken out of boldfaced type and moved beneath other lettering. Your eye looks at bold type but makes it harder to see because drawn to the unimportant part. Literal fine print, were going to take this every week and heres another 100. By october, look at that, nine lines of bold text, all caps, to read through before you learned what the box that was checked was for. Look at that. I mean even now, can you say what the hell those two boxes mean . In the end this worked. Tricked thousands of people. Final 2 1 2 months of 2020, Trump Campaign, Republican National committee and their shared accounts issued more than 530,000 refunds worth 64. 3 million to online donors just the final 2 1 2 months. All in all, 122 million was refunded in 2020, more than 10 of the money it raised that year. How could this happen at this scale and is it legal . For the answer, joined by one of the leading election law experts, professor at uc irvine, author of election meltdown. First rick because you write about election law a lot, youre just like top line your reaction to the reporting, as someone who spends a lot of time thinking about the contours of the law in this context . The reporting is great, and seeing the words in print, what it looks like, is amazing. Its not at all surprising given the Trump Campaign. After the election he was engaged in fundraising to try to raise money for his claims that the election was stolen. Give us money so that we can stop the steal, right . If you looked at fine print there, by the end 75 of that money wasnt going to the trump recount or legal committees but his own slush fund, a committee he can use to fund his personal work. Par for the course for how trump has been bilking his donors for years, just culminated in 2020 election. 10 of all the money you raised is enormous refund rate. Yes. Thats just people that caught it, right . Some people probably, you know, missed it. If they gave 15 or 20 500, someone depletes your bank account youre going to notice, but probably worked, x number of millions they got away with. I thought you should have katie porter on, a consumer law expert. Commercial enterprise, wed be talking about federal trade commission. These deceptive things are worst marketing, and relies on confusion and inertia, and preys on the least sophisticated people not used to reading through the fine print to figure out what rights theyre giving up. Really is something that win red should be embarrassed. Im glad Trump Campaign is giving refunds but this is the worst practice for people, especially small donations on fixed income. Feels like commercial law, commercial fraud regulation or statutes. But theres an interesting disclosure problem. Time lag, the stuff you do in the stretch run of a campaign basically doesnt get disclosed until after. And theres a lot of reason that is a real disclosure black hole where some really ugly stuff can happen because if you win, youre not going to unwin if people find out about it a month later. Sure. Certainly superpacs take donations at last minute, not disclosed until after the election is over. To me this screamed more concern about was trump trying to raise money because he needed it immediately to fund the end of his campaign as he was losing to biden in the hopes that he would win and therefore people wouldnt care that he later had to give refunds . I think it was way to get cash and seemed increasingly desperate closer and closer to election day as trump remained behind in the polls. And you mentioned win red, it was launched as counter to act blue, incredible fundraising platform for Progressive Democratic candidates, but act blue is nonprofit, win red takes 30 cents of every donation, 38 every amount given. Theyre making a ton of money off this, theyre partners in this enterprise. Absolutely. And like i said, this is not only trumps fault. Thing about trump is, republicans had a hard time. You have to go back to john mccain to find someone who attracted small donors on the republican side. Trump unlocked that and did very well. But this was trying to just goose things in a way that is really unethical. And its indefensible. I hope other republicans using win red are going to make sure they dont try these sharp practices in the future because theyre really deceptive and unethical. Rick hais. Rick hasen, a fantastic authority on election law, thanks for your time. Thanks. Ahead, debunking one of the most insidious lies spread by conservative media against the death of george floyd, and a police chief testifies against one of his former officers, remarkable day, well get into it all next. Did you know that every single flush flings odors onto your soft surfaces . Then they get release back into the air, so you smell them later. Ew right . Thats why febreze created small spaces. Press firmly and watch it get to work. Unlike the leading cone, small spaces continuously eliminates odors in the air and on surfaces. So they dont come back for 45 days. Just imagine what it can do with other odors. Ive been telling everyone, the secret to great teeth. Is having healthy gums. New crest advanced gum restore. Detoxifies below the gum line, and restores by helping heal gums in as little as seven days. Crest. The 1 toothpaste brand in its okay that you dont want to be first you arent. Second covid vaccine. Its okay to have questions everyone deserves answers. Im wary that there isnt enough information. Its okay to be excited, or worried, or both. Its alright for it to take whatever it takes for you to be ready. Hi mom, ready for your shot . Yes, ive been waiting for this day. We just got what . Vaccinated. We just got vaccinated lets get you there. Lets get to immunity. Todays star witness in the murder trial of minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin is the police of chief of minneapolis. Path to the witness stand pretty remarkable. He made history as first black chief of the department, appointed in 2017 after nearly 30 years on the force. History with the Minneapolis Police department is fascinating. In 2007, then lieutenant arradondo sued the department with four other black officers alleging racial discrimination, and served as commander of the internal affairs unit investigating allegations of misconduct of Police Officers that puts you up against the infamous blue wall of silence. Last year after the death of george floyd, he said the officers knew what was happening and chauvin intentionally caused it. Quote this was murder, it wasnt lack of training. Around the same time, and he told gutierrez he didnt want to be near Derek Chauvin. If you could be in the same room with Derek Chauvin, what would you say to him . I would not be in the same room with him and wont say his name. Today he had to be in the room with him, he testified what he did was not police procedure. Once there was no resistance and clearly when mr. Floyd was no longer responsive and motionless, to continue to apply that level of force to a person proned out, handcuffed behind their back, that that in no way, shape or form is anything that is by policy. It is not part of our training. And it is certainly not part of our ethics or values. Chief arradondo not the only key witness, we heard from the doctor who pronounced george floyd dead at hospital. He was there to debunk insidious myth of conservative video that kneeling on George Floyds neck for 9 29 minutes was not cause of his death. Must be some other reason he died. Did they say to you for purposes of giving treatment to mr. Floyd they felt he had suffered a Drug Overdose . Not in the information they gave, no. Did they tell you in information they gave that they felt that mr. Floyd had had a heart attack . No. Was your leading theory then for the cause of mr. Floyds cardiac arrest oxygen deficiency . That was one of the more likely possibilities. I felt at the time based on the information i had it was more likely than the other possibilities. Witnesses weve seen testifying in over one week of the trial not only knocking down every pillar of Derek Chauvins case but all the typical excuses and biases we heard about Police Brutality in general. Well talk about that next. Did you know that every single flush flings odors onto your soft surfaces . Then they get release back into the air, so you smell them later. Ew right . Thats why febreze created small spaces. Press firmly and watch it get to work. Unlike the leading cone, small spaces continuously eliminates odors in the air and on surfaces. So they dont come back for 45 days. Just imagine what it can do with other odors. The badge that i wear and that members of the Minneapolis Police department wear, it means a lot. Because the first time that we interact with our Community Members may be the only time they have an interaction. So that has to count for something. One of the most striking features of the trial of Derek Chauvin is that the prosecution has Police Officers taking the stand to testify against chauvin, including the head of the department. Thats really, really quite uncommon. It makes Minneapolis Police chief arradondo a fascinating and compelling witness. Two years ago he testified in trial of another former minneapolis Police Officer convicted of murder for Fatal Shooting of australian woman while on duty. Second time hes explained to jury the obligations that Police Officers have protecting hometown. While condemning actions of one. Former Police Officer and cofounder of the National Coalition of Law Enforcement officers for justice, reform and accountability, and former u. S. Attorney for minnesota. It struck me watching the chief today, its not that common to get officers testifying in that context in these trials, certainly not the chief. What your impressions were watching that testimony. I thought it was powerful. The chief essentially is telling the jury that Derek Chauvin murdered george floyd, and its powerful coming from Law Enforcement. Defense attorney keeps attempting to ask highly credible Law Enforcement people, been in the work for decades, when was the last time you were on the streets, you arrested somebody, another version of what Police Officers throw at civilian activists and civilians, if you understood what we do, you wouldnt question it. Really has nothing to do with the fact that we all watched Derek Chauvin sadistically and brutally murder george floyd on the streets and his colleagues are confirming this. I hope the jury is receiving this, however even with overwhelming evidence on video and testimony of the Law Enforcement people, i tell you right here in st. Louis, just had three or four officers exonerated by all white jury, beat an undercover black officer at protest. City settled with them for 5 million, they have texts of the officers saying theyre going to hurt people tonight, apologized in another text, still the jury found a way to let them off. Takes people in Law Enforcement to really do what needs to be done in terms of holding each other accountable. Were seeing that in this trial. Chief also talked about use of force more broadly. What he had to say here was pretty striking as well. Take a listen. It is my firm belief that the one singular incident we will be judged forever on will be our use of force. So while it is absolutely imperative that our officers go home end of their shift, we want to ensure our Community Members go home too, sanctity of life is the pillar for use of force. Rachel, what is is the legal threshold for what you wanted to see from the witnesses, in terms of the cases the sides are presenting. Starting with the chief, seems to me he was there to establish this is outside training and protocol, not acting responsibly as Police Officer. What did you see as the goal from the prosecutions perspective . Goal of the prosecutions calling the chief to the stand was testify on the use of reasonable force. When the chief said without hesitation that Derek Chauvin violated Minneapolis Police Department Policy on the use of neck restraints, deescalation tactics, and reasonable force and rendering aid to people in medical distress, repeatedly without a hesitation, he sent a strong message about what he expects as chief from his officers as well as what he intends to convey to the community about the Police Departments mission to really serve and protect, which was not seen in this case. The doctor who testified, we showed that clip, who pronounced mr. Floyd dead at the moment, dr. Langenfield, hes not definitive in his account, hes receiving a patient, getting handoff, cant say this is definitively the thing that happened, but it was striking to me them setting up testimony, they didnt tell you there was stress, other stuff going on. What was that line of questioning trying to do . If the officers were truly concerned or believed at moment as Derek Chauvin is claiming now that mr. Floyd was in drug induced delirium, that would have been relevant to pass on to the paramedics who would have passed on to the doctor. On his own the er doctor came to the conclusion that cause of death was oxygen deprivation, failure to render cpr on the scene, every moment decreased his chance of life. And none of the four officers offered medical aid, stopped offduty firefighter from rendering aid and ignored the crowd pleading them to render aid, relevant in the case. Theres the proactive actions taken by chauch chauvin, the kneeling, but then theres prevention of cpr. What the doctor had to say about the causal structure of floyds death. Its well known any amount of time a patient spends in cardiac arrest without immediate cpr markedly decreases the chance of a good outcome. Approximately 10 to 15 decrease in survival for every minute that cpr is not administered. That seemed damning to me. Because it reminds you of the broader context as rachel was pointing out. Absolutely. And chris, you know, the chief said what he saw was violation of policy and morals and ethics of the department over which he presides. Im not attorney but lay person. If i have a toxic level of alcohol in my system and going to die from that in eight or nine hours and you see me stumbling to my car, walk up and shoot me in my head to rob me and murder me, you murdered me, committed a crime and should go to prison for it. Derek chauvin should go to prison for the murder he committed in front of all of us. And im hopeful thats what we see. Just as in the case before, in the same department, then assistant chief, testified against him for the violations he committed, and mohammed noir is in prison now. But hes a black officer in minneapolis who killed unarmed white woman. We all know the role that race plays in Law Enforcement and judicial process. So lets hope that this jury does the right thing. I would admonish those in positions to affect policy broadly to stay with it. This is no time to veer off and tinker around the margins of police reform. Real accountability is absolutely necessary and encourage those at top, biden administration, have the guts to envision a new response to public safety. Hopefully this trial can launch some of that. Derek chauvin, he disgusts me, man, i just he needs to go to prison. Thank you both for making time and helping us work through that. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Next the doj probe into matt gaetz continues, congressman out with new oped thats downright bizarre. How House Republicans are reacting after this. Did you know prilosec otc can stop frequent heartburn before it begins . Prilosec otc uses a unique delayedrelease formula that works to turn down acid production, blocking heartburn at the source. With just one pill a day, you get 24hour heartburn protection. Take the prilosec otc twoweek challenge. And see the difference for yourself. Prilosec otc, 1 pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Do you have a Life Insurance policy you no longer need . Now you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. Call Coventry Direct to learn more. We thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. But we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. Our friends sold their policy to help pay for their medical bills and that got me thinking. Maybe selling our policy could help with our retirement. Im skeptical, so i did some research and called Coventry Direct. They explained Life Insurance is a valuable asset that can be sold. We learned that we can sell all of our policy or keep part of it with no future payments, who knew . We sold our policy. Now we can relax and enjoy our retirement as we had planned. If you have one hundred thousand dollars or more of Life Insurance you may qualify to sell your policy. Dont cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what its worth. Visit conventrydirect. Com to find out if you policy qualifies. Or call the number on your screen. Coventry direct, redefining insurance. Florida republican matt gaetz, i have to say, i was on vacation last week, but i did make a little time for this story. In the midst of swirling reports of investigation and allegations of possible sex with a 17yearold and paying for sex with other women says the swamp is out to get me. Writes in rightwing newspaper, defiantly refusing to resign, other republicans are taking potshots at gaetz in the safety of off the record anonymity. Republicans will absolutely call for him to resign publicly if hes indicted on the charges that include sex with a teenager. International reporter at politico, melanie has been helping cover this story. Its great to have you on. Theres this investigation of gaetz, his oped today, i wont resign, and his republican colleagues. Lets just talk about the oped first, which was a sort of bizarre document. What is your read on what hes doing in this oped . To me, it looks like hes following the donald trump playbook. Hes absolutely defiant, hes trying to muddy the waters by saying hes the victim of an extortion scheme, and he brought up the fbi probe, which is separate to the doj probe. Throwing out red herrings to blame the media, the cheney political dynasty, the Merrick Garland department, while the investigation started under bill barr. And hes making himself out to be a victim, comparing himself to justice kavanaugh. But if hes indicted, he will have a lot bigger problems to deal with. And this line caught our eye. He says, youll see more drip, drip, drip of leaks into the media. When you do, ask yourself why. Theyre not coming for me, theyre coming for you. Im just in the way. Thats a rightwing meme right there. So prepping us for more stuff coming out seems to me like a person that is not confident that weve passed over this portion of the story. He said, listen, im not a monk. Im not perfect. Some other statements things like, while ive cherished my past relationships, but im ready to get married to the love of my life now. Hes being very particular with his wording, and i assume his lawyer is telling him to shut up, but who knows. But i think this will only continue to be a huge problem for him. And hes under a huge microscope right now. And reports of the investigation of a possibility of him having a sexual relationship with a 17yearold, saying ive never had sex with a 17yearold, very specific years of the denials, little alarm belly in my head. Also fact his colleagues dont seem like big matt gaetz fans but also too cowardly to be forthcoming about it. I think its a mix of things. Youre right, he does not have a lot of friends in congress. They view him as a showboater, they dont take him seriously. He has this frat boy reputation. And his district is very conservative, theres no concern about losing that seat if he steps down. Not a political calculation. But at the same time, congress is on recess right now. I dont think anyone wants to be the first one in the Republican Party to call on him to resign. But, you know, i agree if there is an indictment that comes down, like, the floodgates, no pun intended, will open. You cant predict the future, but does that seem likely to you . What is your sense im having a hard time parsing the level of seriousness that were looking at here from a criminal investigation standpoint. I cant speak to the investigation. Clearly, theyre still knocking on doors. Gaetzs former staffer said today they were approached by the fbi last week. The staffer said, i dont know anything about the allegations, and theyre baseless. But shows its ongoing, i think hes in serious jeopardy, we dont know what his exposure is, but i confirmed with two sources that he has been showing off nude pictures and videos on his phone to colleagues in congress. Another source showed me a box of empty condoms in the trash bin outside of his office. All of his behavior as a member of congress is coming under greater scrutiny. Even if hes not criminally in trouble, i think he has a major pr problem, and that could further damage his credibility on capitol hill, whatever he did have. Youre a very good reporter who is reporting on the facts. Allow me to editorialize. Showing naked pictures of people you have had relationships with to your colleagues, presumably without their consent to show them, it just makes you a bad person, or a person behaving badly. Yeah. And i got to think, like, one would hope that that is generally understood by members of congress. But maybe not, i dont know. Again, comparing to donald trump, hes just absolutely defiant. There are also two former members of congress who were indicted for unrelated charges, clg including Campaign Finance charges, and they were indicted, they refused to step down, and went on to win reelection. They will catch up to them, but you could see a scenario where matt gaetz refuses to step down no matter what happens to him. Theres no way hes going to resign, right . Thats the thing. I think thats the new game plan, never resign. And i think theres some bipartisan belief in that. Postdonald trump, but weve seen a number of politicians, republicans and democrats, in position where they look pretty squeezed. And the answer is, you know, public attention wanes, try to ride it out. Keep your head down. Only thing for gaetz is, him talking about drip, drip, drip, im not sure were done with the most damning details. Well stay tuned. Melanie, who has been doing fantastic reporting on this, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me, chris. Thats all in on this monday night. My great thanks to mehdi hassan for filling in for me last week. Did a phenomenal job. It was amazing to get a week with my family. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Good evening, rachel. I know you had at least one date day because you posted about it on instagram, and i tried not to bug you and ask you everything you were doing. Did you have a project or a trip or something . Or just spending time with kate and the kids . Hanging with the fam, kate and kids, doing some long walks. A day date with my wife, we went for a walk. Had a midday cocktail. You know, its the heart of you know, its the heart of decadence, when youre 42 and just getting to hang with your spouse, take in the sunshine. It was awesome. This is, for all of the ways in which we are different from one another and were a diverse community, for a very large proportion of the population, the idea of, if i could just day drink. Its a very, very unifying thing for a lot of us in our fantasies. Not an absent part of my vacation. Well done, my friend. Welcome back. Great to have you back. And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. Were happy to have you here. A big show for you tonight. The chair