The country for a senate trial and for the next president. Then as ten republicans vote to impeach, new calls to investigate the members who supported the mob and new concerns about how the threat of violence affected todays vote. A couple of them broke down in tears talking to me and saying theyre afraid for their lives if they vote for this impeachment. All in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. One week after the trumpinspired siege at the capitol, the National Guard deployed to defend the seat of american democracy. Donald j. Trump tonight has become the first president in the history of the United States to be impeached twice. This time for incitement insurrection for his role in summons the riot. It was a surreal scene. 10,000 National Guardsmen streamed in to protect the capitol from the possibility of a second attack. They were Wearing Masks because were in the midst of a once in a century pandemic with more than 130,000 people hospitalized across the country and over 4,000 people who died again just today. And the members of the house of representatives also, of course, in masks, several of their own having tested positive, they returned to the chamber where they had sheltered only feet away from gunshots. They arrived in order to impeach the president for his incitement of that mob who threatened their lives. A impeachment that marks him forever in history as the only president impeached twice. Without any real defense for the president s actions, several republicans who were stepping around sleeping soldiers to make their way to the floor to say the insurrection was no big deal tried to blame democrats for last weeks violence. Democrats will take away everyones guns just as long as they have guards with guns. Democrats impeachment of President Trump today has now set the standard that they should be removed for their support of violence against the American People. Wheres the accountability for the left after encouraging and normalizes violence rather than helping American People in this time, we start impeachments that further divide our country. I call bullcrap. Some have cited the metaphor that the president lit the flame. They lit actual flames, actual fires time there will be order in the house. In the end, ten republicans joined with every House Democrat to vote to impeach donald trump again. The American People are asking is there any depravity too low, any outrage too far, is there any blood and violence too much to turn hearts and minds in this body . Instead of the usual justification, rationalization and enabling we have to hear. This is a moment of truth, my friends. Are you on the side of chaos in the mob or on the side of constitutional democracy and our freedom . Its that simple. My vote to impeach our sitting president is not a fearbased decision. Im not choosing a side. Im choosing truth. Its the only way to defeat fear. And the first impeachment republicans said we didnt need to impeach him because he learned his lesson. No need to remove him. Well, we said, if we didnt remove him, he would do it again. Gentlemans time has expired. Simply put, we told you so. The next step in this process will be a trial in the senate as mandated by the constitution and when that happens, one of the impeachment managers will be congressman joe neguse, democrat of colorado, and he joins me now. What was it like, congressman, to be in that chamber today . Well, chris, it was a solemn, heavy day for the congress, solemn heavy day for the country. I will say, you know, as i watch some of the remarks that you just showed from some of my republican colleagues, what was striking was, they were devoid of any substantive defenses, any arguments to defend the president s conduct. Everyone knows that what the president did last wednesday was impeachable, there was no question he committed high crimes and misdemeanors. And the fact that you had the number three republican in the house of representatives liz cheney vote in favor of impeachment speaks to that. So to those who questioned whether or not the congress would have the resolve, whether we would shirk from our constitutional duty, the answer was no. That we would stand tall and fulfill our constitutional oath to vindicate the constitution and hold this president accountable which we did and of course now well proceed to try this case in the United States senate. Theres two ways of looking at those ten votes on the republican side. One way is that this is only the fourth impeachment of a president in history and this was by far the most bipartisan vote. They have been routinely quite partisan because impeaching a president tends to break down along party lines. This was a historically bipartisan repudiation. In another way, theres 197 republicans who had to flee to a secure site after the president unleashed a mob on them that ended up with five people dead including a Police Officer who were like ah. What do you make of that . Its disturbing, chris. Your framing is accurate. Historically, the fact that this is the fourth time in the history of the country that the president has been impeached and as you said, this is the most bipartisan vote of the four historically, the parallels, of course, many of us have said before, the Andrew Johnson presidency are too glaring to ignore. We should, you know, i think ultimately commend the republicans who did in fact vote today in favor of impeachment who chose country over party. But obviously your latter point is spot on. It is disturbing beyond words that so many republicans literally after experiencing the armed insurrection that we experienced a week ago, i was on the floor during the january 6th proceedings and to think that they would be unwilling to show the courage necessary to uphold their oath and vote in favor of impeachment today, obviously its deeply disappointing to me and so many others. Look, i think the majority of the American People recognize the stakes, the gravity, they understand why the congress was compelled to take the solemn step we did today. What is your understanding of what the next steps for you and your colleagues are . Well, we will prepare to ultimately try this case in the United States senate and, of course, you know from having covered the previous trial, not that long ago, the first impeachment of this particular president in january of last year, how that process unfolds. Myself and my fellow managers, many with whom i serve on the judiciary committee, people like jamie raskin who is a tremendous lead manager, i think the speaker made excellent, wonderful choices in the team that she has assembled, all of us have extensive litigation experience, lawyers prior to being elected to the United States congress. Were hopeful that the senators will take an objective look at the facts, at the evidence presented. If they do so, i believe that they will ultimately reach a conviction of this president. Congressman joe neguse for the state of colorado, one of the impeachment managers who was there today on this historic and sad and troubling occasion. Thank you, congressman. Thank you, chris. I want to bring in democratic senator ed markey of massachusetts. He will now be a juror for the second time in as many years for the president. What is the sentiment that you and your colleagues in the senate have, having watched what happened today . Well, i was very proud of the way in which the house of representatives conducted the debate and ultimately cast the correct historical vote to impeach donald trump. I think that its the only answer that can be given. History must have recorded that there was a second indelible impeachment Scarlet Letter that was attached to donald trump and to his presidency and i think that the excellent work which they did today sets up a trial of donald trump for his incitement of an insurrection. Yesterday there was reporting, i think it clearly was leaked from mcconnells office, that he was glad that the democrats are impeaching donald trump that, he thought maybe donald trump deserved it and we thought, well, maybe well see him move swiftly in that direction. Debbie stabenow said watch to see if he calls the senate before the 19th. And he said were not coming back until the 19th and i havent made up my mind on impeachment. What do you understand that means for the trial . Well, if donald if donald trump is not on trial for the next five days, which i wish he was in order to ensure that we remove him as quickly as possible, his finger is still on the nuclear trigger. Hes a completely unstable human being. Then we will have to begin when the democrats are in the majority right after the inauguration to begin trial of donald j. Trump, president of the United States, for the high crime against the United States for clearly endangering our democracy. Ive asked this of others and ive seen reporting on it so ill ask you too. Do you worry about a traffic jam . Ive covered the senate up close. I never have quite been able to make sense of the intricacies of the legislative calendar in the senate, theres lots of stuff that you got to do this for seven hours before you come back. Do you worry that the impeachment trial and the agenda of a new democratic president and a democratic majority will be in tension. I dont think its a choice we can make. I think we have to do both. Clearly last wednesday we were within minutes, not ten minutes, five minutes, a couple of minutes of having this mob and many as the evidence is unspooling, indicates that this could have been a plot, there could have been a wellorganized effort. They came with weapons, they came with the types of devices that could have resulted in a mass hostage taking of house and senate members. It could have resulted in a massacre and we were just a couple of minutes from that situation unfolding, potentially. So we dont have a choice. We have to have a trial. And at the same time we have to begin the work of confirming joe bidens cabinet officials, of putting his new, bold agenda for the country on the docket of the United States senate and well have to manage the time to make sure were doing all of it, but accountability has to be a part of the agenda in the same way that the confirmation process and the substantive agenda of dealing with the covid crisis, a 2,000 check for all americans, ensuring that we begin the process of of rooting out the Racial Injustice which is built into every part of our american society. We have to do it all. We dont have a choice. Senator ed markey of massachusetts who will soon be in the majority and soon be sitting in a jury trying the president again. Thank you very much. Thank you. Turning now to matt fuller who covered todays historic impeachment of donald trump, and michelle goldberg. Matt, ill start with you. First of all, the first time everyone is back in the gallery since the 6th and im just curious what that felt like . There was some of us who were there last night for the 25th amendment vote but its surreal. I was sitting in the same seat that i was a week ago watching a lot of the same sort of fights happening that were happening a week ago. This now is just after an extraordinary moment and obviously as you said at the top of the show, theres a National Guard calling all around, members are congress are wading their way through Service Members and obviously the the capitol right now is a military complex. Its a little surreal. It takes a lot longer to get through to the capitol. But i think everyone understands the unprecedented situation we were in. Michelle, i have to say that i i work hard to stop feeling despair, to not be tempted by despair. But theres something hard for me to swallow to see only ten republican votes. Its not surprising in historic terms. Its a historic bipartisan repudiation. But he sent a mob after them that would have killed their colleagues, there was a cop who was bludgeoned to death and they have 10 votes. I dont think theres any limit to the despair that somebody should feel about the Republican Party. Speaking as a person who is given to despair myself, i think theres somebody encouraging about the fact that weve reached this moment. This moment when i thought we would be here much earlier. But were here. Theres a broad societal rejection of donald trump, at least at the elite level. You have this kind of corporate mobilization against trump, his lawmaker dumping him, everyone who can distance himself from this person, people who had they taken these steps years ago, had major corporations said years ago that they were not going to donate to members of congress who enabled donald trump, think of all of the suffering and misery that could have been avoided. Nevertheless, a week ago, i dont think that people thought that donald trump was going to be leaving the presidency with the shame and disgrace that he is now heaped upon himself. At least, you know i think that we now know how donald trump is going to be remembered and also received once hes back in the outside world. I think thats true. And i wonder, matt, what youre reporting suggests about those calculations within the Republican Caucus and what that were you surprised by that number . Is that what you thought it would be . I started the day with an over under of 9. And they got one more. One congressman had something to say that was illuminating. It was Kelly Armstrong of north dakota who said on my side, were going to win points by voting no on this, and on your side, youre going to win points by voting yes. I dont think thats how those ten republicans really viewed it. I think a lot of the ten republicans see that its damaging for them, particularly for liz cheney. I think she might be in trouble as the number three house republican. He might be removed as the conference chairwoman. Theres obviously some political gain. Jamie herera butler has a difficult district and theres not a primary for her because of how washingtons primaries work. But i think that for republicans, it really was just a, you know, grit and bear it, same partisan thing theyve been doing for four years or longer than that. And, you know, i just dont know how to i dont know what to make of it more than that. They saw this as another partisan vote and few of them sort of the message got through to them. But by and large, i didnt. And i think, michelle, one of the things as you described the widespread repudiation the president rightly faces and the members who voted to overturn the election, i think the awareness that this was an attempt to essentially end the version of america democracy that we have come to know and think of. To install the loser over the winner, that is that was what this was an attempt at multiple levels from the president to the members of congres to the mob, its dawning just how serious that is, i think. I think it is too. And its again, its tragic that it took this long for that to don. Donald trump has never made any secret of his intention. Hes never made any intention of his contempt for democracy, hes never made any secret of inciting violence. This isnt the first time that he encouraged an armed mob to storm a Capitol Building, right . That happened in michigan. Theres Something Different when you see the Capitol Building of the United States, this sacred space, this place that democrats and republicans alike have this real romantic attachment to be so desecrated and defiled and when you realize just how close we came to something ininfinitely worse than even the kind of extraordinary violence that we all already saw. Final question for you, matt, one thing that is shocking to me, and this was before a deadly and armed insurrection against the u. S. Capitol, was after the election, you saw a lot of democrats, liberals, progressives, leftists, socials, engaging in fights about the election, what should we do . Theres especially none of it on the republican side as far as i can tell. Theres no active conversation, debate about, well, our president got turfed out after one term. He never was over 50 . We lost the senate. Am i missing it . Are those conversations happening or is it just like, soldier on . No, i mean, i think youre right. Democrats do a lot of the democrats do a lot of the hand wringing that republicans never do. As you just said, they lost the white house, they dont have control of the house as much as theyve been patting themselves on the back for picking up seats and they lost the senate, right . In a democratic world and the alternate universe of that, democrats would be kicking themselves and figuring out how they can change and appeal more to diner voters or whatever and republicans are just sort of pushing ahead. Its trump again. I had someone tell me basically tonight that in six months donald trump will once again be the, you know, platform of the party. Hes the heart and soul of the Republican Party and despite this insurrection, its not going to change. Very patriotic sentiment. Matt fuller and michelle goldberg, thank you, both. Thank you. Ahead from the mob that attacked the capitol to the language of some republicans on the floor today, a look at the way Political Violence and the threat of it has now infiltrated and undermined american democracy. My name is trisha. Im 70 and i live in mill valley, california. My biggest passion is gardening. I love to be outdoors. I have jaybirds that come when i call. I know how important it is to feed your body good nutrition. I heard about prevagen and i heard about the Research Behind it. Taking prevagen, i have noticed that i can think clearly. My memory is better. I can say that prevagen is one of the most outstanding supplements ive ever taken. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Incomparable design makes it beautiful. State of the Art Technology makes it brilliant. The visionary lexus nx, lease the 2021 nx 300 for 359 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. 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When the president directed the mob to go to the capitol last week as lawmakers were voting on certifying the president ial election, counting the votes, actually, the idea was to use that mob to intimidate members of congress into overturning the election and to become complicit with trumps plot to do so. Well, today members of congress walked by sleeping National Guardsmen in the capitol on their way to vote on impeachment. They passed through metal detectors to reach the chambers because of fears of security. And as you take in these images and the images from last week, something becomes clear, that a kind of specter that has haunted our politics for at least the past four or five years has now materialized in the flesh in front of us, clear for all to see, Political Violence and its effects. It is clear that a significant part of the political calculations of this trump era particularly for republicans has been the threat of violence and the fear of it. One week ago, a violent mob stormed the capitol. They erected a noose on the ground that appeared to be functional and they chanted hang mike pence as they searched for lawmakers who dared to defy trump. Some of them with real knowledge of the capitol. Republican congressman peter meyer of michigan, just elected, said he had gop colleagues who knew they should certify joe bidens victory, vote to seat the electors but they did not do so because of legitimate concerns about the safety of their families. They felt that that vote would put their families in danger. Think about that for a second. If they voted to ratify the election, their families would be in danger. On this very show last night, olivia troy told me that the Vice President , who, of course, who has been unfailingly loyal to the president , thats the most charitable way to describe it, had to consider the threats to him and his family as he was making calculations about whether to further the president s coup, right . If i dont further the president s coup, you know, might hurt me or my family. And that really hit home while pence was sheltering in a secret location while a mob was ram packaging through the capitol. While the president was attacking him for not having the encourage to overturn the election. And then today, congressman jason crow said some of his colleagues were worried. The majority of them are paralyzed with fear. I had a lot of conversations with my republican colleagues last night and a couple of them broke down in tears saying theyre afraid for their lives if they vote for this impeachment. Multiple reporters rushed to confirm the exact same people. These are people sourced in these says the same thing. A bunch of the president s supporters also made the argument that trump should not be impeached because further violence, the violent mob would come back to extract further revenge. We see whats happening around this country, 50 statehouses are being threatened on inauguration day, this is the last thing you want to do. I urge you, please, do not and im mixing metaphors here, attempt to deuce douse the remaining burning embers of this. Thats what this action is saying. Youre inciting violence because youre punishing the violence mob incited by the president. If you do that, well, then, you get it happens, right . Dont anger the mob by punishing its leader or else . And i want to be clear here, when you hear some republicans are too scared to do the right thing, i think some of it is pretty selfserving, right. Some of it is an excuse for not doing the right thing. They know what the right thing is, they dont want to do it. But its not crazy. It is the case. I can tell you this, this is true, when a person is targeted by the president , when youre targeted by the president on twitter, your security situation becomes immediately serious. Its true for lawmakers, true for people in the media, its true that anyone trump singles out for criticism. Dr. Anthony fauci has worked in this government for five decades and used to be the kind of person who would walk down the street and not need a bodyguard. Those days are gone. Now he and his family, they need security amid a wave of death threats. And thats become the same people that are pumped full of facebook conspiracies and fox news lies hate anthony fauci. And a small number of them want to do him harm. A functioning Civil Society is one that resolves political disputes through legal and democratic process and through protests and Civil Society. It does not resolve them because one side is worried the other side will shoot it dead if they dont do what they want. And that is a reality, the menace, the ingredient that donald trump has helped at the to politics in this era. And it threatens the very core of liberal democracy itself. One of the congressional representatives risking her own political future to stop this threat to the country joins me next. Next my Retirement Plan with voya keeps me moving forward. Even after paying for this. Love you, sweetheart. They guide me with achievable steps that give me confidence. This is my granddaughter. Shes cute like her grandpa. Voya doesnt just help me get to retirement. Theyre with me all the way through it. Come on, grandpa later. Got grandpa things to do. Aw, grandpas are the best well planned. Well invested. Well protected. Voya. Be confident to and through retirement. [ ] every time you touch a surface, bacteria is left behind. Now, consider how many times your family touches the surfaces in your home in 24 hours. Try microban 24. Spray on hard surfaces to kill 99. 9 of viruses and bacteria initially, including the virus that causes covid19. Once dry, microban forms a bacteria shield that keeps killing bacteria for 24 hours, even after multiple touches. 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Today they were there with metal detectors placed on the entrance of the house floor which is infuriated many republicans who think its an insult that maybe their other colleagues dont want them carrying on the floor. One of the members of congress who voted to impeach donald trump for the second time is democrat Elissa Slotkin of michigan and she joins me now. Congresswoman, i want to start with this talking about the people saying things out loud that i think have been hanging over the congress. This idea that worries about personal safety, worries about what it means if you get out you get cross bid the president. How much do you think thats a palpable thing that hangs over the body you do your work in . Well, i think frankly a lot of the republicans that ive been talking to in the past week have sort of become awakened to what its been like for a lot of us for a long time. If the president tweets about you or your race, certainly that was something that made us less safe in the past. But this idea that somehow, you know, the base was threatening people this week and making choices for these members of congress, thats something that a lot of us have experienced for a long time. Frankly thats been some of the harder conversations ive had with some of my republican peers. Ive said to some of them, thats a wednesday for some of us. And its hard because we feel like we havent been heard by them for a long time and i dont want anyone to feel threatened. We dont want that in our politics. As you said, its horrible for anyone. But it does feel like now that its turning on them, theyre sort of upset about it. And for many of us, weve been living like that for a while. I want to be more specific. When you say thats a wednesday for us, whats the that . What are they experiencing now . I had a member say to me, you dont understand, im getting 150 calls a day, people are angry with me. They are threatening me, threatening my staff, my family. There are militias forming in my district. People i know are becoming violent and going underground. And, you know, im from mid michigan, weve had a lot of problems with those same things for a long time now. So its that feeling of personal stress that i think they just have sort of surfed on this wave of populism to their benefit for a while now and when the curl of the wave turns over them, its distressing and theyre feeling it. I wonder if thats a i think thats true and its good to hear have this conversation because its humanizing. It is important to remember that its human beings that work in the capitol, human beings that showed up at the rally, right . All people. But i think that i thought that that would register more, the thing youre describing to me of feeling like, whoa, we have unleashed something truly bad and dangerous, which you would think would be the realization, it just doesnt appear to me that has necessarily sunk in. Maybe it has and their voting behavior doesnt show it. No, and i want to be i want to be frank here that i dont think many of them see their connection to this kind of anger and violence in our system. And, again, these have been very hard times. And i really applaud my colleagues who voted for impeachment today and i applaud the others who have still kept those channels of communication open with us democrats. Weve had some very Difficult Conversations over the past, you know, week. But it is hard for me to disconnect from people who have supported what the president s done for a very long time. And there still isnt that connection for many of my peers. Last question for you. And youre in a swing district and in a state that is very contested political terrain. The president released a statement tonight, it was one of those statements that he reads off a tell prompter. For the jim jordans and the Donald Trumps of the world to say joe biden won the election, he won it fair and square, it was a free and fair election. He got more votes. He is the duly elected president , that would help, wouldnt it . Yeah, i think i guess just because im a former cia officer and pentagon official, Leadership Climate is set at the top. If you heard that very strong, clear message and you had that echoed through all of the senior leadership, it would matter. But for the vast majority of people, it would have an effect and hes choosing not to use that voice. And its not uncharacteristic, but its so painful because this door has been opened on the use of the violence in our politics and i refuse to believe that thats how were going to have to exist now, especially from a swing district. Not using his voice, he hasnt used his voice. Other elected leaders are starting to use their voice and hopefully thats a start. Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin who is from michigan in the capitol today for that impeachment vote, voted to impeach the president , thank you so much for making time. Thank you. Still to come, multiple House Democrats now raising questions about whether some of their republican colleagues were actively collaborating with the mob. The new allegations next. I have the power to lower my a1c. Because my body can still make its own insulin. And trulicity activates my body to release it, lowering my blood sugar from the first dose. Onceweekly trulicity responds when my body needs it, 24 7. Trulicity is for type 2 diabetes. 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Did you know that some aluminumfree deodorants only mask odor . Secret aluminum free helps eliminate odor ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy. Instead of just masking it. And is made with 3x more odor fighters. With secret, keep it fresh every day. Secret. We are hoping things will pick up by q3. Yeah. Uh. Doug . [ding] never settle with power e trade. It has easytouse tools and some of the lowest prices. Dont get mad. Get e trade and start trading today. I have faith in the resiliency of our government. We will bring the rioters to justice. Their accomplices in the house will be held responsible. Heavy statement there referring to some of his republican colleagues as, quote, accomplices in the crimes committed in the attack on the capitol last week. Several democrats have gone on the record saying they suspect some of their colleagues were more than just sympathetic to the aims of the mob and may have been collaborators. Alexandria ocasiocortez said on game live video last night that she did not feel safe taking shelter during the attack with some Republican House members because she was concerned they might disclose her location to the rioters who may have wanted to harmer. Today, democrat from new jersey, a swing district, she wrote a letter to the acting sergeant at arms requesting an investigation into suspicious behavior and access given to visitors to the capitol complex on tuesday, the day before the attacks. In a video last night she referred to those tours as possible reconnaissance. These serious allegations add to the patches of knowledge and loads of Unanswered Questions we have about how in cahoots they were with the mob. Tim alberta joins me now. In traumatic and violent and chaotic events, theres this rush to impose order and you hear people sort of float theories. And so im very careful about what we know and what we dont know. What is clear to me now is that there are democratic members who genuinely suspect that their colleagues were collaborating in some active, logistical way with some members of the mob who invaded the capitol. Do you think thats a Fair Assessment . Yeah, chris, i do. And im with you. I think we have to be supercareful about this and, look, you know, my colleague, john harris wrote the other day at politico that we need a 9 11style investigation here. But to your specific question, yes, in my conversations privately, off the record with some House Democratsas well as what weve heard publicly, there are credible suspensions that there was coordination happening inhouse, inside the capitol, in the days leading up to january 6th and if so, if thats proven, i cant think of a bigger story in modern congressional history. We know that there were folks we know that some actively supported the protests, if you want to call them that, which i think were in pursuit of a fundamentally irredeemable project. Biden should concede. I want his concession on my desk tomorrow morning. Dont make me come over there. Stop the steal 21 and tagging in one of the organizers ali who may have been involved more than organizing a rally and may have been much more implicated in the movements that happened afterwards. This is where it gets a little bit dicey. Where we have to be careful. Theres a substantial difference between getting up at a rally and giving a speech, even if that speech is, as youve said, in pursuit of the illegal and the unconstitutional and unethical. Giving a speech to a crowd and getting people worked up is still going to be substantially different than if you are actually you and your staff, if you are bringing people inside the capitol and helping them conduct reconnaissance on the u. S. Capitol building, a secure Federal Building that houses, you know, thousands of staff and hundreds of federal lawmakers, including people in the president ial line of secession, you cannot do that, obviously, and if an investigation bears out that there were people involved in that, chris, again, im not a legal expert here, i only play one on late night tv. I would think that would bring significant federal charges given what we saw last wednesday. Just to return to where you started. Whats maddening about this is, at some level, we all saw it live, but we didnt see it live. There was a lot happening that we didnt see. Theres information coming out in dribs and drabs. And there has to be something more comprehensive, some transparent of what facts have been established. This is madness right footage and the, you know, what people say happened. Well, look, man, this is going to be a we know that there are blessings and curses of the Mass Technology era, but this is going to be one of the blessings that i feel mike what weve seen come out in the last seven days is just a sliver of the evidence, ultimately, that the feds are going to be able to gather in trying to piece together this entire right, so its frustrating, youre right, in the moment, but i do have a feeling that ultimately, theyre going to be able to build that comprehensive case youre talking about. Yeah, its a very good point. I think the truth here is knowable. Its a question of under what conditions and when we know it. Tim alberta, always a pleasure, thank you. Still to come, donald trump has been impeached, again. Now the big question is, will the senate convict . Everything you need to know about the looming impeachment trial. What it means for the biden agenda with a Senate Expert after this. 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Author of the fantastic new book, kill switch the rise of the modern senate which just got way, way more relevant even though i read it before the recent events and its great. You should definitely check it out. He joins me now. All right. Heres how we start, adam. Chuck schumer calls you up and he hires you to be his field general for the next month. Okay . You work for harry reid. Youve just written a book about the senate. Like, what would be your optimal plan about how to approach this given that its, like, genuinely a difficult undertaking that he has in front of him . It is a difficult undertaking and i think what he has to balance is the need to move forward with president bidens agenda. The need to confirm his nominees on a timely basis. And the need to conduct this trial for this, you know, incredible, incredibly disturbing series of events weve seen transpire over the last week so i would try to do it quickly. This is a case, you know, youse theres probably more disturbing evidence. We know why trump is being impeached. Theres no question that trump incited violence here and the house passed one article of impeachment. So the senate trial can be relatively straightforward and very focused on that article. So, i would say, you know, keep it simple in a way. We just need to bring this question to a head as quickly as possible. We need to put republicans on the record. Theyve flirted with trump many, many time. Its really time for them to put up or shut up now. Bring that question and force them to answer it as quickly a you probably can. This is an overly technical question, ill ask it, anyway. Theres some talk about dividing the day, in the morning we do the trial, in the afternoon we do the other stuff. How workable is all that . Its complicated because on the one hand, the senate is the master of its own destiny. The senate can decide to go in and out of session. It can decide tuesday is wednesday. You know, it can do lots of things, if every member of the senate decides they want to do it together. If you have a divided senate, its much harder to set up those kind of flexible procedures. I think its probably possible to do some sort of bifurcated strategy here, but its going to be complicated and will pose a big challenge for majority leader schumer but its yet another reason that i think you want to keep this short. Theres not a lot to see here beyond what we already know. Events will continue to come to light, but the fundamental question is whether the senate could convict donald trump for something he clearly did. And i think that question can be brought and forced and put in front of republican senators relatively quickly. How much control will the minority have over the terms of the trial, itself . Like, in they think if Mitch Mcconnell thinks, this could be a gift, i can burn up a lot of clock they want to use to confirm nominees. Okay. Maybe you get someone at doj but dont get someone under. Not a lot. This is a process that is pretty prescribed. And its its relatively straightforward. You hear the two sides and then the senate conducts a trial and, you know, delivers the verdict of the jury. So, you know, mcconnell can try to use this to drag things out, but hes going to be somewhat limited in his potential to do that. I also think that it will be easy to call him out for trying to do that. And so i think, you know, but yet again, to come back to the point, i think this is yet another reason not to take forever with this process. We know what trump did. Yeah. He did it in broad daylight. So lets just, you know, hold the trial. Lets bring the question up, force republicans to take a position on the record. All right. Next time i want to have you back, talk about your book, how it relates to the substantive agenda here. A lot of news happening about what the first bill is going to be in the senate. Encouraging stuff. Really important stuff. Adam jetleson, thanks for taking time. Thanks, chris. Thats all in. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Good evening, rachel. Good evening, chris. Thanks, my friend. Thanks to you at home for joining us thus hour. So he fought in the union army during the civil war. He was wounded at the battle of shiloh, reportedly his horse was shot out from under him and he, himself, was wounded but kept fighting. Stayed in the war. He was reported to have personally taken at least one confederate soldier prisoner by hauling him bodily off the battlefield by his collar. After the civil war president ulysses s. Grant named him to be america of secretary of war and then stuff started to go wrong. On the relatively meager salary that came with that cabinet