Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20201121

Landslide. We are going to prove it. Then it was the excuse republican senators used for not voting to remove trump. I would say let the Voters Decide. Let the Voters Decide this. That decision needs to be made by the voters. Adam schiff on the ongoing abdication responsibility and the new way the Trump White House is throwing gasoline on americas financial crisis, as biden takes over when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. The covid pandemic, im sad to say, is the worst its ever been in this country and its getting worse by the day. Record case and hospitalization numbers again today. 193,000 cases, pushing up against 200,000 cases a day. We now have 83,000 people in the hospital. And most bleakly there are more than 1,800 deaths, and thats before this wave of cases makes its way through the hospitals. We learned that donald trump jr. , who repeatedly hosted maskless, indoor events on the campaign trail and spread doubts about the effectiveness of certain Public Health measures is among those who have contracted the virus. Also testing positive was Andrew Giuliani, son of Rudy Giuliani. We wish both of them a speedy recovery as we do the nearly 200,000 other americans who tested positive just today. Now, covid is not some kind of morality play. It doesnt strike down those with hubris and spare those with virtue. Its just a virus, anyone can get it. Its both clear that don jr. And Andrew Giuliani bought into the information their fathers have been pushing for months. For the past few years a huge chunk of this country has been going through what is basically a slow motion nervous breakdown. What we are seeing now, what we are confronted now in this very dark winter, maybe 40 of the country either unwilling or unable to acknowledge the reality that donald trump lost the election is the culmination of that. The right in this country has spent decades building this disinformation ecosystem that fundamentally depends on telling conservatives that you cant trust other people. You can only trust us. And you especially cant trust anyone who says bad things about our leaders. Its the same thing a cult tells people. I mean what a cult does is explicitly work to cut off all your relationships to other sources of authority outside the cult. Years ago right when radio host Rush Limbaugh talked about what he called the four corners of deceit, they were government, academia, science and the media. Well, if you cut off all that, government information and statistics, the entire university universe of knowledge, scientific thought, journalism grounded in actual reporting and reality, what are you left with . Not much. Just what the cult wants you to believe. And all of the sum of expertise and evidence becomes meaningless. And so here is what it sounds like when youre a member of that cult and some of the people you considered allies try to get you to break free from disinformation and just once accept reality. Trump and you are all we have left, rush. Weve spent our lives voting for these people because theyre not them. And we just cant do it anymore. No one stands for us, rush. Only you and donald trump. God forbid, what do we have left . I love my president. I am not a revolutionary, rush, but i would die for my president. To be honest with you, i feel a profound sense of empathy for that man. He censsenses that hes been lio and betrayed and he has been, although not quite in the way that i think he realizes. And that can happen to almost anyone. Really, really smart people, sophisticated people, end up in cults. Really, really smart and sophisticated people end up believing crazy stuff. It happens all the time, i can tell you as a reporter. And this en masse is what happens when you spend decades untethering people from reality. It becomes very hard to get them back. If youre sitting listening to me with an air of judgment and selfsatisfaction i want you to take a moment to intro spent. The fact of the matter is all of us have ideological blind spots and habits that push us towards things that confirm our priors and make us feel good. More than that all of us, no matter your partisan affiliation, we all get our information about the world basically through trust relationships. If you right now watching this believe the earth is warming because of carbon emissions, which it is, unless you are a climate scientist, you acquired that information by someone telling you about it or reading about it and those are sources and people you trusted, and you were right to trust them. Thats not to say certain bedrock sources of authority are infallible. I lived through the main stream medias reporting on iraqs weapons of mass destruction and the comalm assurances on the housing bubble. The ones that rush identified, the four corners of deceit, are in the end more or less engaged in a good faith enterprise. They are trustworthy on the whole. The problem is the country got a divorce and one side got custody of all the good ways to get knowledge about the world. One side of the country, a big chunk, has come to trust deeply institutions and sources that are just deeply untrustworthy. And this problem isnt unique to the United States. Rupert murdoch basically engineered much of this predim amt for a big part of the English Speaking world. Weve seen the seeds of this issue on like Climate Change where conservatives have been persuaded to ignore overwhelming evidence. Watch the former Prime Minister of australia recently confront a murdoch appear rachic about the damage hes done. The company you work for and its friends in politics like trump and others have turned this issue of physics into an issue of values or identity. Now, saying you believe saying that you believe or disbelieve in Global Warming is like saying you believe or disbelieve in gravity. Youve turned something that should be a question of engineering and economics into undiluted ideology and idiocy and we are paying the price in delayed action to address Global Warming. I mean weve seen the exact same phenomenon play out with covid. Murdoch broadcasters turned h h hydroxychloroquine, a malaria drug, into a supposed miracle that, quote unquote, experts dont want you to have. Now were seeing it with this broad refusal on the right to accept the results of the election. And trump wants to weaponize it. What he is trying to do is use this alternate reality to essentially produce the conditions to overturn a democratic election and end 240 years of american history. Hes hoping there are enough people in positions of power in the cult to run a stake through the heart of democracy. Its why he summoned Michigan Republican lawmakers to d. C. Today for a meeting in the white house in a bid to try to get them to overturn the results in a state joe biden won by 154,000 votes. If they dont do what trump wants and it appears they wont, well talk about that, then the cult members will lash out as globalist sellouts. No one stands up for us, just the president. Just ask Georgia Republican secretary of state Brad Raffensperger who had the as today audacity to become that donald trump lost georgia. He has been called to resign by fellow republicans. He and his wife have received Death Threats including texts telling them they deserve to face a firing squad. To his credit, he refused to buckle. Today after a hand count, georgia certified biden as the winner of the state. Then georgias governor, brian kemp, said he would formalize the certification as required by state law. Even doing that is likely to result in a backlash. Because when any republican or conservative tries to gently broach the basic reality, they discover that the cult members are both unable to accept the truth and eager to lash out at them for trying to get them to do so. Theres no way around it, there is something profoundly broken here. And i dont know the solution to it. I wish i did. The question of whether anyone can run a democracy under these conditions is an open one. Its awfully hard to govern when 35 , 40 , 45 of the country is willing to believe liars and frauds like Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell when they make outlandish claims about elections being stolen without a shred of evidence. And people that we share this great nation with, people that we love, that are friends, that you probably know. I mean fellow americans, our fellow citizens, theyre going to continue to live sealed in this world, and its a huge problem for american democracy. All of that said, at least as of now it is still the case that our basic institutions and laws and some of the key figures continue to be tethered, however shakily to reality. So i want to now talk about how republican lawmakers dealing with all this and what to expect in the days and the weeks leading up to inauguration day. I want to start with tim alberta, chief Political Correspondent for politico. Tim, its great to have you lets start first with this meeting because i know you reported on this. Youre headquartered i think in michigan these days. You do a lot of reporting on the state of michigan. The Michigan Republican house and Senate Leaders summoned to the white house. What was your sense of what this was about and what happened . Well, yeah, chris, i think obviously what it was about was the upcoming certification of the michigan Election Results. And the president and his legal team do not have a great grasp on the statebystate specifics of how these results are certified so theres been this sort of spaghetti at the wall approach. Obviously in the wake of this rather bizarre incident earlier this week in wayne county, the biggest county in michigan where detroit is, and the initial refusal of the republican canvassers there to certify those results, which ultimately they backtracked on and voted to certify and the next day signed affidavits saying they wanted to rescind their votes. One of those members we know was in contact with the president talking to him after their initial vote to certify. So clearly the president had already interjected himself and was leaning on the republican canvassers themselves. So this was sort of the next obvious step for the president and for his legal team was to actually bring in some lawmakers because the president was told by his legal team that if there was a similar deadlock at the state level so the counties all certify. All 83 counties in michigan certify individually, but then there is a fourmember state board that will vote to certify the entire statewide election, all 83 counties. And this is where the Trump Legal Team believes that they had leverage. There was a belief that if the state board was in a deadlock and if the two republicans on the state board refused to vote for certification, then it would default to the legislature and the legislature, which is run by republicans in michigan, would then have the ability to hand pick its own electors to send to the electoral college. The only problem, chris, is that the president got bad advice. Thats not how it works. In fact the president s lawyers who were talking about this and who were tweeting about this, they still have their tweets up, but their facts are wrong. And so even if these lawmakers in michigan wanted to try and pull off this sort of electoral heist, they couldnt do it anyway. You said this morning after 48 hours of highlevel conversations with Michigan Republicans and democrats, its clear the results will stand. Joe biden will receive the states 16 electoral votes. Theres no alternative under the state statute. This trump michigan gop meeting is a sideshow. Those lawmakers have said we have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in michigan and as legislative leaders will will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding michigans electors. Tim, youve been chronicling the right for a long time. I wonder if you would agree with me that this is a new frontier weve crossed over. Its been a trajectory that existed but this is not going away. This will be canon for tens of millions of americans, that the election was stolen and they were stabbed in the back by their political leadership. I completely agree, chris, this is an inflection point. The fact of the matter is when you look at the public polling before this election, gallup put out a poll a couple of weeks before election day asking the American Public about their confidence this election would be fair and votes would be cast and counted accurately. And with that exact question, the number of republicans who said that, yes, they believed in the institution of the ballot box and they had confidence in it was down 30 some points just from 2018 when gallup had asked the question two years ago. So there was about a 35point drop in two years and that was before election day. Now you have the president coming out and claiming that the election was stolen. You have his legal team spinning these fantastical theories about how it was stolen, obviously not bringing any evidence to bear. But you do have now, i think, sort of an existential threat facing the institution of the ballot box, the likes of which weve never had in this country. Whether people want to stick their head in the sand and refuse to believe that, thats on them. But ultimately, even if a fraction of the 75 Million People who voted for the president believe him and believe his legal team, youre still talking about millions of americans who no longer believe in the legitimacy of the ballot box. Tim alberta, thank you so much for making some time. Joining me now is kristen clark, civil rights attorney for the Bipartisan Task force on election crises. Kristen, let me start with an emotional question. I talked to a lot of people the last few weeks who feel this ebbing and flowing of anxiety. Biden won, right . Hes not going to pull off some coup. Then a thing happens and they get stressed out again and they come back to thinking its all okay. Where are you on this . How do you view whats happening over the last few weeks . Its been a roller coaster, but weve all been on a fouryear roller coaster throughout the duration of this administration. But what were seeing right now is that democracy is being pressure tested. A historic number of eligible americans have gone out and they have made their voice heard. And now we see the president resorting to every trick in the book, any tactic that he can put his hands on, along with his allies to try and distort the outcome of the election, to try and subvert the will of the people. So emotionally, im feeling okay. Weve gotten involved in many of these baseless and frivolous lawsuits and we are winning. These cases are getting dismissed left and right. And one of the most encouraging victories was yesterday in georgia. Where judge remberg, a trump appointee, flatly rejected one of these lawsuits that sought to block the certification of Election Results in georgia. The judge said youve got no standing, these claims are baseless, and the relief that you seek would harm the public interest. So emotionally im feeling okay. I think were going to get there in the end. Yeah, look, i think the one thing that has been reassuring is the courts have viewed this, whether whatever president appointed the said judge, the courts have veiew it appropriately as ridiculous essentially. We had today, we had georgia certifying. The we had the statement put out by those michigan lawmakers which leads one to think theyre not going to try to pull anything atrociously antidemocratic. You have michigan and pennsylvania certifying, nevada, ohio, arizona and wisconsin. I feel like the certifications and then we move the governors sending the certified results to congress and then the electors meet and cast their votes. At each of these points, theres moments where the president is clearly going t to try to throw Monkey Wrench in. How secure do you feel about batting those away . Well, i anticipate that we will continue to see efforts to hijack the process, which is pretty pro forma, just as youve laid out. The most critical part of this process is over. Americans have spoken. Over 150 million americans have spoken. And so i think well continue to deal with, you know, attempts to pressure lawmakers to not certify Election Results. Well continue to see these desperate intimidation tactics. We may have to deal with a couple of more a couple more frivolous lawsuits that are filed in state or federal courts, but everything is failing and we are moving to the path that is appropriate for our democracy, one in which the will of the voters will prevail at the very end. Who gets you know, thats true at a legal level. But one of the things i think that were seeing, right, is that in a deep sense, a democracy functions by the loser accepting the results. I mean not in the sense of who gets to wield power, because donald trump will never accept the results and he will not be in the oval office on january 21st, he wont. But in a deeper sense of like what a democracy is and how it functions is that some even hillary clinton, who won by 3 million votes and did not think the outcome was just or fair and was the victim of foreign sabotage, like quite plainly, like she conceded. And al gore famously did the same thing. I just wonder, what does it mean in a broader sense when and if that doesnt happen, because its not going to happen . Well, a peaceful transition of power has been a hallmark of democracy. Sadly, this story wont end that way. This story will be one in which the outgoing President Trump fought at every turn to obstruct democracy and to subvert the will of the people. That is the sad and unfortunate way that this story ends. But brighter days are on the horizon. We will do all that we can to restore the Good Standing of american democracy across the globe. I mean that is the part that i think is forgotten. The entire globe is watching whats playing out here, this charade, this sham. So on january 21st well start the hard work of rebuilding and restoring democracy and cleaning up the damage that has been wrought throughout the past four years and most intensely in these past two weeks. Kristen clark, civil rights attorney, thank you so much for your time tonight. Thank you. Coming up, the Coronavirus Crisis is the worst it has ever been in this country, so why are Senate Republicans wasting time on hydroxychloroquine. Dr. Ashish jha and bizarro Senate Hearing joins me next. Izo se nate hearing joins me nexta fh but now a friend. Still an electric car. Just more electrifying. Still a night out. But everything fits in. Still hard work. Just a little easier. Still a legend. Just more legendary. Chevrolet. Making lifes journey, just better. Chevrolet. Could be all your softf odor surfaces . Ome. Odors get trapped in your homes fabrics and resurface over time. Febreze fabric refresher eliminates odors. Its waterbased formula safely penetrates fabrics where odors hide. 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Instead of focusing on things that might work, the hearing was all about hydroxychloroquine, the malaria drug touted by the president even though the fda has warned people against taking it because of the risk of heart problems. The Republican Committee chairman, ron johnson, spent two hours trying to argue in favor of the drug, blaming bureaucrats and calling in three witnesses to support his position while dr. Ashish jha, the one witness tried by democrats, tried valiantly to communicate the basic facts that we know about hydroxychloroquine. The evidence so far is very clear that this therapy doesnt work. If future data show that it does, i will be delighted and be the first to promote it, but ive got to be driven by the data and the science and not what i hope is to be true. I cant get it. Millions of americans cant access it because of the disinformation, the scare mongering and the prescription log jam that has been created by bureaucrats. So you can sit back and go, oh, but it hasnt been proven effective. Well, they have never pushed trials to really analyze it. Ive got some pretty eminent people in front of me that have looked at the Observational Data and dispute that. You can sit there with all the authoritative voice that you possibly have, but weve got some gentlemen here that are treating patients within that empathy circle and they completely disagree with you. And dr. Ashish jha, dean of the school of Public Health at Brown University joins me now. You posted on twitter about this yesterday and i was shocked because i had not seen the announcement or notice of the hearing. The whole time i found this to be one of the most bizarre chapters in this whole thing to take a malaria drug and turn it into Colin Kaepernick kneeling for the anthem level culture war fight. It just either does work or it doesnt. I literally dont understand how it became some big culture war thing. I cant believe theyre still crusading on this. Yeah, chris, thank you for having me on. It is a very odd thing, right . So here we are, as you said, 2,000 americans dying every day. Instead of focusing on things that are going to help prevent more deaths, we spent hours yesterday debating hydroxychloroquine and there isnt much debate. The science is very clear. The idea that were going to start politicizing therapies. Is aspirin a democratic drug or republican drug . We cant get into this. Weve politicized everything else, weve got to leave this stuff alone. And i cant believe we went there yesterday. Yeah, weve also been getting look, the therapy has gotten better. Weve been learning things. Things that looked promising, remdesivir. The w. H. O. Is saying maybe not that effective. The one thing that looks pretty reliable is the steroids that the president took, which im hearing from more and more doctors they are making a normal course of their treatment. Like we have learned stuff, right, about treatment and therapy. Yeah, no doubt about it. I would say the average person going to the hospital today probably has about a 50 lower likelihood of dying than they would have six months ago. Weve learned a lot about therapies and just gotten better. Obviously we need to do more work and we need outpatient therapies, but weve got to use Science Evidence and data and not hope and not this empathy circle that senator johnson was talking about, but instead the most empathy thing we can do is get the science right and get the therapies right. So the fact that heres what im having a hard time squaring and its making me quite terrified. When you say you have a 50 less chance of succumbing to illness if youre hospitalized now, the fatality data that were seeing right now is really scary. And the hospitalization data makes me worry that as hospitals get overwhelmed, we are going to see that number start to come back up. The ratio of hospitalized to deaths under conditions of stress are going to come back up. Do you have that worry . Is there evidence thats already happening . Well, i definitely have that worry. We dont have evidence that its happening yet, but theres very good evidence in general that when hospitals get crowded, everybody does worse. It makes sense and stands to reason. You get less attention than normal processes of a hospital dont work as effectively. The data on crowding is well known and im worried thats going to happen and its not just going to affect covid patients, its going to affect anybody in the hospital at the time. Im just a reporter who follows this and talks to a lot of people and reports on it. The trajectory that were looking at right now is just utterly terrifying. The only Silver Lining i have, i guess, is that i think i thought at a point during the summer surge in a place like arizona, that short of mass mitigation efforts, there is no way to break that curve and it did break. And they didnt do mass mitigation efforts. They closed bars, they did some mask mandates but didnt go into total shelter in place. What is your sense of what policy interventions are on the table right now that could bend this curve around . Yeah, so im first of all, its going to happen at the state level. Were not going to get any real meaningful policy interventions from the federal government. Im hoping that things like what the governor of michigan did on sunday night, which actually follows very closely the france model that the french did a few weeks ago. You can see the curve spiking in france. They put in these interventions and they turned things around. They really are about limiting indoor gatherings and trying to push people to not have indoor parties, closing bars and restaurants. It really does seem to be a pretty effective strategy. Its worked in france, im hoping it will work in michigan. Im hoping it will work in many states in the u. S. That actually do this kind of stuff. What is your sense of what we are headed towards in the next few weeks, particularly with thanksgiving on the horizon and how much thats a kind of that strikes me as a switch on the Railroad Tracks of which direction were going to go. Yeah. So it all depends on whether people are really going to heed the warnings. Were going to have a small thanksgiving meal in our household. If most people do that, i think well get through thanksgiving okay. If people are tempted, and i was tempted, everybody is tempted, but if people actually go visit family, have extended gatherings, its going to be awful. Weve seen a spike after every single holiday in the last year. Were going to see another spike after thanksgiving. And it will come off of a very high baseline with surging cases. Things could get meaningfully worse. Dr. Ashish jha, always grateful for you sharing your expertise. Thank you very much. Thank you, chris. Still ahead, impeachment manager adam schiff on trumps refusal to concede the election and why his republican colleagues are enabling the delusions of a defeated president. A defeated presid ent. Youll get planning e to help you prepare for the future, without sacrificing whats most important to you today. Because with fidelity, you can feel confident that the only direction youre moving is forward. Whoa someone please help of course. Youre tenacious, ill give you that its ok, im ok. [heavy breathing] where are you . Coming lets do this yeaahh its on woooo whoa. [heavy breathing] rated rp to t. Youre on it. Jardiance knows youre doing all you can to manage type 2 diabetes and heart disease. [crash]. 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Shingles doesnt care. Shingrix protects. Shi[ sneeze ]nt care. Skip to cold relief fast with alka seltzer plus severe powerfast fizz. Dissolves quickly. Instantly ready to start working. Oh, what a relief it is so fast this evening the run secretary of state of georgia confirmed that president elect biden won that state and certified the results. Despite how overwhelmingly clear it is that joe biden will be the next president , the current shame of the Republican Party is the almost universal silence about what the voters have decided. The vast majority of national Republican Leaders continue to drag their heels, many have become complicit participants in trumps feeble attempt to subvert the election. And while you probably dont need proof of the bad faith of almost every republican senator, it is worth taking a moment to consider how dumb they think the rest of us were. You may recall the president of the United States was impeached less than a year ago. When it came time to decide whether he should be removed from office, every republican senator but one said he should stay because, among other reasons, they said it shouldnt be up to us, let the Voters Decide. We have a president ial election in november where the people of this country can weigh in and make their voices heard. I think we should leave the decision up to them. The results of the next election should be decided by the American People, not by congress. The American People are going to get to decide in november who they want to be their president. We should entrust to the people the most fundamental decision of a democracy. Removing the president is not a last resort. We have an election in november, which is a far better and a lot less damaging remedy. The voters will pronounce a verdict in nine months. I trust them to make that decision. At the end of the day, mr. President , the ultimate judgment rests in their hands. The American People are more than adequately prepared to decide for themselves. Lets not be so arrogant as to take that decision away from the American People. The people should make that decision. Let this decision lie in its rightful place, with the electorate. The American People and not members of congress will decide the presidency of the United States. That decision needs to be made by the voters. I would say let the Voters Decide. Let the Voters Decide this. The voters are voting. It is up to the voters to decide. Its better to let the people decide. The answer is an election, not an impeachment. Okay. We had one. We had an election. The Voters Decided. And so, now all those senators should right, they should be showing some deference, some respect for the decision. I mean they told us this was the thing to do. Then we went out and did it and now what . Now what . When we come back, the congressman who led the impeachment of donald trump and warned that he would do this if you lost the election. Adam schiff will be here on what to do now, next. At to do now, next. Been busy too. Innovating, sourcing organic ingredients, testing them and fermenting. Fermenting . Yeah like kombucha or yogurt. And we formulate everything so your body can really truly absorb the natural goodness. Thats what we do, so you can do you. New chapter wellness, well done. And ask your doctor about biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in certain adults. Its not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to and stay undetectable. Thats when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. Research shows people who take hiv treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit hiv through sex. Serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. 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And you know you cant trust this president to do whats right for this country. You can trust he will do whats right for donald trump. Hell do it now, hes done it before, hell do it for the next several months, hell do it in the election if hes allowed to. It has been nearly ten months since congressman adam schiff, the lead impeachment manager in President Trumps senate trial warned america that trump would do exactly what hes always done and what he is doing right now, putting himself over the good of the nation, refusing to concede an election he has clearly lost, sentencing thousands of americans to sickness and death because of his own selfishness. Adam schiff joins me now. How would you characterize what we are seeing right now, both from the president and from the republican members of congress . From the president were seeing exactly what we expected we would see, and that is that if he lost the election, he would contest it. That he would claim that it was rigged, that it was a fraud, that he would make completely false and baseless allegations that millions voted illegally. And thats of course exactly what hes doing. And in terms of the republicans in congress, you know, as you pointed out during the trial, chris, we warned that he tried to cheat in the election and got caught. He tried to get ukraine to help him cheat and he would do it again. Thats exactly what hes doing. The republicans who, you know, many of whom acknowledge that he had been Proven Guilty of the charges and then went on to say as what youve pointed out that, well, lets let the Voters Decide, now that the voters have decided, thats still not good enough for them. The only remaining ideology, chris, that we have seen of these republican enablers is say what the president says, do what the president wants. That is now the Republican Party ideology. It doesnt go beyond that. What he says rules them. They fear angry tweets, they fear primary challenges, they fear retribution, they fear that voters in georgia may not turn out if donald trump takes the ball and goes home. And so we see once again this utter capitulation to the wishes of donald trump, no matter how antidemocratic and unconstitutional they may be. How do you understand in this moment with all thats unfurled since then, how do you now understand impeachment . Ive been thinking about this year, which in many ways is the worst year of our lifetime. Its the deadliest year in american history. Weve all been through a lot. How do you think about impeachment in the context of what unfolded afterwards . Well, i think about it in this way. We saw what donald trump was made of. We saw the abuses of power. We in the house undertook our constitutional responsibility with great seriousness. Although, you know, we had realistic expectations, we hoped and prayed the senate might do the same. They didnt. Thats not necessarily a flaw in the remedy of impeachment. One of the things that we pointed out during the trial is that it doesnt matter how well the constitution is written or how profound the oath of impartiality is. If those things are not animated by the spirit with which the constitution as written, if the members dont give them content through their character, none of it works. And it hasnt worked because the gop, one of the major parties, has relinquished its constitutional duty and become a c cult of the president. And thats what has this republic shaking. Donald trump couldnt be doing any of this, there would be no lack of ascertainment by the gsa administrator if the republicans werent allowing it. They could put an end to it tomorrow. They just dont have the courage to do it. And its a colossal failing. It doesnt mean that impeachment wont be an effective remedy in the future if its necessary, but it does mean at this moment of peril that one party is not living up to its responsibility. I think some of your colleagues in the house have written a letter to the gsa administrator asking her to answer to them what shes thinking on ascertainment, possibly calling her. You know, so far the way this has all been played out, its played out in the courts and the biden people saying be patient. I get all that. Does the house have a role here . At a certain point, the transition kind of has to happen. You guys do control one branch of congress. We do have a role. Were trying to execute that role. We are, i think, putting the right kind of pressure, public pressure on these holdouts both in the congress and in the administration to get on with the transition, to acknowledge the election is over, joe biden won. He won handily 6 million votes more than the other guy. Its time to attend to the business of the country and defeat this pandemic. So we are trying to turn up the public pressure. And that public pressure can be powerful. If necessary, well call people before the congress. You know, day by day, bit by bit as the court makes its results clear, as state after state starts certifying the results, you know, the pressure will be inexorable. But in the meantime of course were losing time to fight this virus. The one other thing i want to say i think we may have lost with respect to that, they were waiting in the beginning. Lets let the courts save us from ourselves. Lets let the state legislatures save us from ourselves. Then wait until the Georgia Special election is over. Then lets just wait until hes out of the white house and maybe hell go off into that good night. And then it will be, well, as long as he may run in four years, i guess we still cant say what we need and act our conscience. If they dont put an end to it now, they will never find the courage to stand up to them and never reclaim their party. I think thats correct. House intelligence chair adam schiff, thank you for making time tonight. Thank you. Still ahead, it is pretty much universally accepted that we are in desperate need of federal relief. So where is it . Why is it taking so long . What can we do . Hakeem jeffries on the inaction on capitol hill after this. Cape you pla d advi to help you prepare for the future, without sacrificing whats most important to you today. Because with fidelity, you can feel confident that the only direction youre moving is forward. But when i started seeing things, i didnt know what was happening. So i kept it in. He started believing things that werent true. I knew something was wrong. But i didnt say a word. During the course of their disease around 50 of people with parkinsons may experience hallucinations or delusions. But now, doctors are prescribing nuplazid. The only fda approved medicine. Proven to significantly reduce hallucinations and delusions related to parkinsons. Dont take nuplazid if you are allergic to its ingredients. Nuplazid can increase the risk of death in elderly people with dementiarelated psychosis and is not for treating symptoms unrelated to parkinsons disease. Nuplazid can cause changes in heart rhythm and should not be taken if you have certain abnormal heart rhythms or take other drugs that are known to cause changes in heart rhythm. Tell your doctor about any changes in medicines youre taking. The most common side effects are swelling of the arms and legs and confusion. We spoke up and it made all the difference. Ask your parkinsons specialist about nuplazid. I shop on Rakuten Rakuten may your holidays glow bright and all your dreams take flight. Visit your local mercedesbenz dealer today for exceptional lease and financing offers at the mercedesbenz winter event. To save you up to 60 . These are all great. And when you get a big deal. You feel like a big deal. Priceline. Every trip is a big deal. Right now there are millions, tens of millions of people who are worried about where their next paycheck is going to come from or their next meal for their family or what will become of American Life over the next dark 60 days. And theres no answer from the federal government, not from the Trump Administration or from congress. So i found it darkly amusing the other day when none other than texas senator john cornyn tweeted the following. He says, he linked to an article about the fact that a lot of jobless benefits are going to run out and said, this is heartless. Congress must act. 12 million will lose jobless benefits the day after christmas unless congress acts. And i thought, john cornyn, but youre in congress. Hes in Senate Leadership. What are you doing . Dont be a pundit. Youre a player, buddy. Another player is congressman Hakeem Jeffries of new york. Hes the chair of the House Democratic caucus, and he joins me now. I feel like there is broad agreement that something has to be done, that the c. A. R. E. S. Act money is running out. A bunch of the provisions have been termlimited. The pandemic is worse now than it was when the c. A. R. E. S. Act passed. Whats the status of things happening there . Well, weve been trying to proceed with the urgency since may when we passed the initial version of the heroes act, then again passed a second version of the heroes act on october 1st. But unfortunately our colleagues on the other side of the capitol, as well as President Trump, have been missing in action. Now, we still are trying to find Common Ground with them for all the reasons, chris, that you laid out. The pain, the suffering, and the death are not getting better. They are getting exponentially worse. And several of the provisions that had been initially put into the c. A. R. E. S. Act, such as the extension of time for being eligible for basic unemployment is getting ready to expire. We already have lost the 600 per week emergency Unemployment Insurance benefit, and of course we believe that the American People need other forms of relief, such as another round of direct stimulus payments and, of course, assistance in paying their rent or their mortgage. I agree substantively with all of that, and i know youre not going to negotiate on cable news with me. That said, the h. E. R. O. E. S. Act isnt happening. Its not happening. You and i both know it. That numbers not going to happen. The provisions in that bill arent going to happen. Mitch mcconnell controls the senate. Maybe democrats win those two runoffs, but thats january 5th. Thats a long way from now. So i guess the question is like somethings going to have to happen thats a lot less than the h. E. R. O. E. S. Act if anything is going to happen. Lets be clear about what h. E. R. O. E. S. Act were talking about. In may, we passed a 3. 4 trillion bill. We came down from that to 2. 2 trm dollars. The administration has come up to 1. 9 trillion. We think theres an opportunity to close that gap and get something over the finish line over the next few weeks. But wait a second. So were operating off of theres no active negotiations. Is mnuchin talking to the speaker . Like is anyone talking to each other . Yeah, well, the speaker and Senate Majority leader mcconnell are talking. Now, theyre talking, as i understand it, about avoiding a government shutdown. December 11th, yeah. But there is communication, and thats important. And there are parallel conversations that are ongoing, and i believe that will mature into being able to get something done in the covid19 space. You mentioned secretary mnuchin, who has been the kind of key point person on these negotiations, was crucial in the c. A. R. E. S. Act. There are a number of provisions in the c. A. R. E. S. Act that is essentially srt of a strange arrangement. Essentially a fiscal appropriation from congress that money that was moved over to the feds bank account, and then the Federal Reserve could use that as essentially like a basis for lending for a variety of different emergency scenarios. Now, those facilities have been somewhat underutilized, people say because the market signal sent by the action itself did a lot of the work. All of that said, secretary steve mnuchin, after donald trump lost, said, we would like that money back. We want to shut this down and not pass it over to the biden administration. What do you think of that . I mean its highly irresponsible, and its classic in terms of the Trump Administration. Theyre all about themselves. Theyre behaving like petulant children right now. They dont care about the economy. They dont care about the wellbeing of the American People. They have taken their ball and gone off the court. And this is an example of it, and the American People are going to pay the price. The good news, chris, is that january 20th is on the horizon. Were going to try to get something done before then because the American People are hurting. But we will have new president ial leadership shortly. I thought this was interesting. This is a Pew Research Poll out today. 78 of lowincome Trump Supporters Trump Supporters say more covid assistance is needed, and only 40 of highincome Trump Supporters say the same. It seems to me this is a winning issue particularly for ossoff and warnock in georgia and any part around the country that we need relief. We held the house. We flipped the presidency. I think we can win those two seats in georgia, and covid19 and the fact that theyve been missing in action is one of the most powerful arguments that we have. All right. I hope this comes to something because were in bad shape here. Chairman of the House Democratic caucus Hakeem Jeffries, thank you very much. Thanks, chris. That is all in for this week. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now with my dear, beloved friend, Rachel Maddow. Good evening, rachel. You are very kind to me, chris. Thank you, my friend. Much appreciated. Enjoy your weekend. You too. Thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. As you can see, im still at home. I know this is weird. Im still treating you to the i get it admittedly unpleasant sight of me in, like, full no makeup, also me rigging this shot with lights and microphone and everything on my own. I know theres a reflection in my glasses. I know theres like a weird door and a shelf with a stuffed dog on it behind me. Im sorry. This is just how it goes. Im home. I can only do so much on my own. I once again beg your patience and your forbearance while i finish up my covid quarantine. I know this does not look great, but it will hopefully get better soon. So your patience is appreciated