She tested positive. I heard about this. She tested positive. She is a hard worker. A lot of masks. Wears masks a lot. She tested tos and i went out with a test. You know, we spent a lot of time and the first lady had a test too. Its very hard, when you are with soldiers and airmen, and the Police Officers im with them so much, when they come to you, its hard to say, stay back. Always somebody to blame, he doesnt wear a mask, usually, and often is seen in close proximity with his group, who do not follow precautions. The president and the first lady tested positive for covid. He said a that both are doing well and they plan to remain at home in the white house. Dr. Connolly ended his memo with this. Rest assured i expect the president to continue carrying on out his duties without disruption while recovering. We know that to not be true. We know some of that is not going to happen. Melania trump addressed that in a tweet saying we are all feeling good. I postponed all up coming engagements. The president is 74 years old, that puts him in high risk of the virus. Its called comorbidity, hence, this is an incredibly serious moment. The leader of the free world has tested positive for coronavirus. Let that sink in. Joining us by phone. The dean of the Brown College of Public Health. Dr. Ja, thank you for joining us. Give me a sense of what you have taken from the news that you heard over the last couple of hours. Im sorry, we are going to go to haley jax sckson, who was cover it. Haley, what is the latest. You ticked through the headlines. As you were reading the introduction to the show. Vice president mike pence has made a remark. The first we are hearing from him, since it was announced that the president and first lady have coronavirus. Forgive me for looking at my phone. We send our prayers to the president and the first lady. The Vice President does not indicate whether he has been tested. When he and his wife have been tested or what happens next for him from here. I can he will the you, we have made multiple inquiries to find outdoor mo did to find out more about that. Second piece of information. We have been on the phone here. Im hearing that the expectation is, inside the white house, when it comes to the Staff Members who were in contact with the president. The expectation is that they will end up getting a call saying hey, go quarantine, basically. Which makes sense for the Staff Members that were with the president today, because as you know, ali, he was traveling today. He got on marine one, he got on air force one. He went to new jersey, he came back, he was at the white house. So, that circle of people who was around him. According to one source. Any signs or symptoms which tra tracks she and her us were feeling good. And listen, this is, a significant moment here. Its part of his group. Its series. At this point, he is not symptomatic. Based on what his wife and doctor told us. Theres a lot of questions, moving forward about other people who are at risk at the this point. How far back that Contact Tracing, excuse me, needs to go given the people that the president has interacted with. Have to note in tuesday night, we were in cleveland, in the room with President Trump, me myself, the producer and the crew, in the debate hall and his family. Who traveled back to air forces one. Prezumably those people are being talked to as well. We look forward to how this, so that is the new stuff. And thats a big question mark. We know the first lady is cancelled up coming engagements for the period of time. We dont know what the period of time is. She has an east wing staff. Who is had in contact with her and has been in contact with her and that was a piece to the puzzle. You have as you mention, the campaign travel. The president had an Aggressive Campaign schedule. He wanted it that way. I talked to people leading up to the election day. The closer it got, the more intense the travel would be. The brakes are being pumped on that, right, prezsum had ably. Its a big question mark here. So, theres still a lot of questions. The big one is answered, after hope hicks, one of the president s closest aids, did the president and the first lady test positive, we have an answer for that. I should note, a source who is in the white house said that hicks is often somebody who of all the staffers does wear a mask at times more like in the oval office. They described her as one of the more cautious people inside the west wing. The video and Public Images of her as she is walking to marine one and air force one, she has not been masked. That is something that came in to play as we move forward what white house staffers will need to do. They will continue to keep testing and social distancing. The focus, im told, the president will continue to work without disruption. His schedule tomorrow has changed. He is Still Holding the phone call to talk about covid with vulnerable seniors. That population of which he is a part for somebody who has covid. What you have mentioned, the Vice President and joe biden. Yes. These two people have, are disproportionately important that the moment in time. I have heard, that in the white house, they have sophisticated Contract Tracing for anybody who ends up with coronavirus. What do we know, and maybe we know nothing. But its thursday night, on tuesday night the president was in proximity talking in a loud voice near joe biden. I dont know if they got closer than they looked to be on the screen and that may be enough space. What do we know about that and what do we know about the last time the president was with the Vice President. About the two men, what have we pieced together. I will start with joe biden. Now, you talk about the debate, ali, i was as you know in the hall for the debate. I did not see them come closer than the podiums they were on. The two candidates sort of stayed on either end of the stage. What we have heard from medical experts. Social distancing is one piece of the puzly he wi lzle and peo mostly Wearing Masks in the audience. As we noted, members of the president s family were not wearing the mask. Its a question of how the Biden Campaign will grapple with it moving forward. The Biden Campaign was trying to stay away from things that were potentially risky. Only today, ali, did they start up again, the door knock campaign, going door to door, i had talked to abide enofficial earlier this evening. They were doing virtual conversations trying to connect with voters that way. Because of the potential risk frr the coronavirus pandemic. Thats the Biden Campaign side. The Vice President s side, the two of them had, we know the Vice President was at the white house earlier this week for a Coronavirus Task force meeting. What we dont know is if thepresident popped in to the meeting. That is something that we are trying to find out. The Vice President today was on the road, he was in iowa. He returned back to washington. Actually, right around the time that the president was getting ready to go on sean hannity and say, we have been tested and when he will see what happens. So thats where the Vice President is now, he is home, and you saw him tweeting. At this point, theres a question of what duties does he now take on if anything is different verse what the president would have done. I wish i had more answers but i want to be careful that we say what we can back up with reporting. Its important to stick to the facts. Haley, give us a waver on do whatever you have to do as you get more information. I will come back to you. Haley jackson in washington for us. And dr. Gupta. He is an assistant professor with the department of Health Metrics sciences. A lott of the information you have been with us tonight, and the president who flouted the rules about these things and mimicked them on the debate stage, has now got coronavirus. He makes a handful of World Leaders that have come down with coronavirus. What can do you make on it . Is our president and i hope he remains healthy. Its hard to understand what hope hicks is feeling right now. Theres so much uncertainty. We have been having conversations since march about who is truly more infectious for how long. And than somebody who is asymptomatic. Theres a huge gap in infectiousness. If somebody has a fever, a cough, a low oxygen sat, what is she feeling . This is where i say, its really vital. Lets forget what happened for the last 8 months for a moment. If we can, just for the moment right now. We talk about asymptomatic transmission in younger people and she may have been the transmission. This is huge. Potentially enormous in terms of the people exposed. The people that need to be vigilant, including the Vice President s camp. That is number one. Number two is everybody on air force one needs to be contact traced, needs to go in to immediate quarantine for a period of time, regardless of what their initial test shows. Even if its a negative test, they need to go in to quarantine. Because as you know, false negatives happen all the time. That is important. Interest number three, and this is where it is sad to see that this happened, and, again, im glad to see that the president and the first lady are healthy at the moment. Lets hope that stays that way. But they shouldnt their better angels should have kicked in here. They should not have had any type of Public Events today or private events where others were exposed. You know, its not a secret anymore that when they congregate, publicly or privately, they flout rules on masking and distancing. So they a lot of people at this fundraiser were exposed. They also for the benefit of their own health and their Families Health need to go into Contact Tracing mode, need to go into quarantining mode for a time. Heres the final thing. Ill stop talking after this, ali. The cdc recommends highrisk exposures, even if you have a negative test. In the president s case it doesnt matter. Hes positive. Needs to do the 14 days and reassess. It does not mean theyre clear. They need to still go into quarantining for 10 to 14 days per the cdc guidelines. So thats clear. Right. I hope they take this seriously. I hope they message appropriately. So i just want to be clear on this. Someone who is exposed to hope hicks may test positive, like the president did, within a couple of days of exposure. Someone might not test positive until day 12, day 13 of exposure, is that possible . Its certainly absolutely. The incubation period is anywhere from 2 to 14 days. Okay. So youre not out of the woods if you get a negative test when someone else who was on that same plane or that same trip or in that same proximity with you got a positive test. In other words, that may mean multiple tests or it may mean quarantine or a test at the end or it may mean quarantine for 14 days and no test, but at that point, you didnt develop coronavirus. I mean, if were going by the book, ali, this is what i would say. This is a highrisk exposure in an enclosed environment. Everyone on that flight, 14 days quarantined regardless of what your test shows is what they should do, in part because they are they are the incumbent administration and their example matters. So if they do that, that will send a powerful member. Message. All right. Dr. Gupta, thank you for the time youve been spending with us tonight. I suspect therell be more of it. You make it very, very clear for us and we appreciate the work youre doing for us and the work the university of washington is doing. Stand by. Joining me now, congressman Eric Swalwell, democrat of california. Congressman swalwell, thank you for being with us. This falls into your purview for a lot of reasons right now because there are things other than the president s immediate health. And we are hopeful that the president and the first lady and hope hicks do not suffer from this this illness. But there are National Security matters and there are governance matters we are not getting we got a tweet from Vice President pence in which he says, karen and i send our love and prayers to our dear friends President Donald Trump and Flotus Melania trump. We join millions of americans praying for their full and swift recovery. God bless you, President Trump, and our wonderful first lady, melania. No comment from his office whether hes been tested or what the situation is with him, and we have asked. We dont know what the situation is with joe biden. This is a this is more than the president of the United States getting coronavirus. This is a highly Infectious Disease that has now made its way to the top levels of our government. Ali, its an avoidable National Security crisis that we are in right now. I hope the president and the first lady are okay. I hope the Vice President did not contract this. And i certainly hope that joe biden, who stood on a stage for 90 minutes near the president , is negative when hes tested. We have a line of succession, even a temporary line of succession. And hopefully it does not come to this, but when i look at this, ali, and take a step back because just this oovg we voted on the house floor for further h. E. R. O. E. S. Act covid relief. It can only mean that we have utterly failed the test that so many others in the world have passed. And even Boris Johnson, bolsonaro in brazil, they did contract it, but that was months ago. The fact that the president of the United States, who is tested every day, people around him are tested every day, has the best doctors in the world, has contracted this, demonstrates that we dont have our act together yet, and if the president can get it, anyone can get it, and thats whats so disturbing. Yeah, and part of the issue here is it all depends on what happens, but these things get politicized very quickly. And theres some concern that while we hope that the president does not suffer suffer any symptoms, hopefully hes asymptomatic, but if he is and gets out quickly, that this becomes yet another reason to downplay coronavirus. Thats right. That would be the worst lesson to take from this. And i spoke to a friend earlier the evening, younger than i am, in his mid30s, who was out for about a month from coronavirus. So it really is punishing, its unforgiving. It draws no distinction between republicans and democrats. I dont want the president to see his symptoms get worse. But this should be a wakeup call for all of us to get serious. Maybe it will provoke the president and his team to come to the take so that we can get the relief package passed so that we can have further testing. Well, thats what i was going to ask you. Because the house passed the h. E. R. O. E. S. Act. We dont know where this goes in the senate. We feel that with the senate, particularly now as its preoccupied with the Supreme Court confirmation process, Senate Republicans do not seem to be taking additional aid seriously. We have seen tens of thousands of Airline Workers laid off this week. There is a need for a deal. Does seem the treasury secretary has been talking to nancy pelosi about this and feels there is some seriousness to this, but bottom line is americans are getting americans with coronavirus or americans suffering because of coronavirus have been forgotten and left behind at this point. 7 million and 1 now, thats right. The president and the first lady have it. Symbolic, you know, individuals now who have it. It has to be a time for us to take a beat, step back and recognize that this persists, were going into the cold and flu season, temperatures are dropping, were going to be spending more time indoors, and so the best thing we can do is to invest in our own safety going forward. I hope it brings people back to the table and that we can leave washington before the end of this week with a deal. Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for joining me. Congressman Eric Swalwell of california, thank you, sir. I want to bring back irwin redlener. Irwin is a doctor with columbia university. Hes an expert in disaster preparedness. He has been talking to me about this for many, many months. Irwin, we are into seven months you and i are discussing this. There are there were Serious Public Health concerns on tuesday on that debate stage when people were talking about the Trump Associates and family who were not wearing their masks in concert with the things donald trump was saying on that stage that were undermining his Public Health experts, touting a vaccine that will be ready within weeks, he said. Thats not science. And now the president of the United States has become one of a handful of World Leaders who have contracted this infection. What does it add up to for you . So this is an incredible moment, ali. We have been talking about this a lot, you and i. And if you think about im thinking about the recordings the interviews that bob woodward conducted where the president personally and privately was telling woodward that this was a horrible situation were in, the pandemic was deadly and theres going to be a lot of trouble. In his publicfacing messages being the exact opposite. You know that story. The problem is that his words are coming back to haunt him in very strange ways and are really now in distinction to what his Campaign Messages are. So hes still doing the happy talk. And now hes come down with covid, as his wife has, and like dr. Gupta said earlier, we really wish him well. We wish nothing but well for the president of the United States, regardless of different political views. But hes created now a massive problem that has resulted in 208,000 deaths in the United States. We got half of them were probably preventible if we had been getting the straight scoop. And information from the white house. And there hadnt been this discord with his scientific leaders. So now its a big mess. Its a National Security threat. And it is a real threat to the lives and wellbeing of the uncountable numbers of people hes been in contact with. And dont forget, weve recently been talking about aerosol spread of the virus, meaning that it may go right. Much farther than six feet. So i must definitely say that Vice President biden is also at risk, as his staff as well. So the amount of testing and quarantining thats going to have to happen now is massive. And by the way, i also think, ali, you know, as strange as the 2020 president ial campaigns have been to date, its about to get a whole lot stranger. Were basically done yeah. With the 2020 campaign. And were now going to be looking, i dont know, can they even have another debate . I certainly wouldnt recommend it and certainly not on the same stage together. Maybe well have some sort of zoom platform or Something Like that to have some sort of discussion which will be a whole interesting innovation in terms of president ial debates, but everything changes as of a few hours ago when that announcement was made, ali. Viewers will be accustomed to hearing criticism of some of the president s actions and policies here on msnbc, but we want to be clear, to hope hicks and to Melania Trump and to President Donald Trump, we are wishing you a speedy recovery. Hopefully no symptoms. We know hope hicks has some. And hopefully they are mild. We dont know that the president or Melania Trump have suffered any symptoms, and we certainly hope they dont and that they do make a full recovery. That said, donald trump becomes one of a handful of World Leaders, irwin, who have contracted this disease, and actually in a couple of other cases, including Boris Johnson in the united kingdom, Jair Bolsonaro in brazil, these are leaders who havent taken this very seriously. They are, in fact, the ones who belittled the threat from a Public Health perspective. America has got 7. 2 million cases of coronavirus. Weve had in excess of 200,000 deaths. We had 45,000 new cases in the last 24 hours. 45,000 new cases. Were still hovering in the neighborhood of 750 to 1,000 deaths a day. This is a moment, irwin, used properly, that could be teachable, that could change the trajectory, the horrible trajectory this country has been on for the last six months. Yes, ali, and that has to be acknowledged by the president and the Vice President. They have to bring back their task force and let the doctors and experts speak and they have to be undeterred in talking about what the right messages are. And its really very simple. It the been the same as its been for months, which is that this is a serious disease. I think there maybe need to be some, you know, contrition on the part of the president and the Vice President , but they have to now become the nations most Effective Advocates for appropriate Public Health measures. So the yeah. Keeping a distance. Keeping the face masks on at all times and hand hygiene. This is all we have. We dont have medicines that to stop the progression of the disease. And we dont have a vaccine yet. And now we have to just do what weve been saying for many, many months. Maybe the president will. Id like to be optimistic that not only will he get better, as will his will the first lady, but theyll also kind of become the biggest advocates now of all for the appropriate Public Health steps that we need to take to keep us all safe. We need all of his supporters to get that message as well. That may be our best shot, ali, at really bringing this particular pandemic under control. No opportunity like this to become an evangelist about something. You can change your whole view about it. Irwin, thank you very much, as always. Irwin redlener at columbia university. I suspect we may be talking later this evening. The breaking news we are continuing to follow at this hour, President Trump and first lady Melania Trump have tested positive for the coronavirus just before 1 00 a. M. Eastern time the president tweeted, tonight, the first lady and i tested positive for covid19. We will begin our quarantine and Recovery Process immediately. We will get through this together. Dr. Sean conley, the physician to the president , released a statement earlier this morning that said in part, the president and first lady are both well at this time and they plan to remain at home within the white house during their convalescence. The White House Medical Team and i will maintain a vigilant watch, end quote. Late thursday it was reported that one of Donald Trumps top aides, hope hicks, tested positive for the virus, seen there a couple of days ago in the beige coat, the fawn coat. Hope hicks was among a group of staffers as you can see who travelled with trump to the president ial debate tuesday in cleveland, ohio. She also travelled with the president to a Campaign Rally in duluth, minnesota on wednesday. After donald trump kerneled that he had tested positive for covid, Vice President mike pence tweeted, karen and i send our love and prayers to our dear friends President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump. We join millions across america praying for their full and swift recovery. God bless you, President Trump and our wonderful first lady, melania. We do not know if mike pence or karen pence have been tested for the coronavirus in light of the president s results. Joining us now, shannon pettypiece, nbc news senior white house reporter. Shes been on the story all evening since before we had confirmation of the news. Now that we do, the world has changed, shannon. The world in which you thought the president might be exposed to coronavirus because one of his aides was is a very different world than the one in which the president of the United States, 74 years old, and overweight, does have the coronavirus. Whats happening in washington now . Well, so many various implications to this, ali. As you mentioned, think first and foremost is the president s health. We certainly know for months and months that this virus he is in that highrisk group that he talks about. He was actually scheduled on friday to have a phone call discussing atrisk seniors at risk for the coronavirus and now he, himself, is in that category. So of course, first and foremost, his health. Secondly, the question of what happens should his health deteriorate. You mentioned that statement a moment ago from the Vice President. We have been waiting all night and my colleagues have all been calling everyone in the Vice President s orbit that we could try to find out where is the Vice President and what is his Health Status . Now, while it doesnt appear and he is not indicating that he is someone in close contact with the president in recent days or with hope hicks, we still do not know how hope hicks was infected. And is it possible there is someone else in the west wing . And who this virus has been spread around, who might be going around as an asymptomatic carrier. And whether or not the Vice President had any exposure. So i think that is say big question that remains when it comes to the National Security question around the country. Yeah. Let me ask you about that. There is the campaign and this issue of what comes next. And what were going to see as far as the campaign here from here on out. Hope hicks clearly is not patient zero here, and we heard the president saying, you know, when youre around these military and Law Enforcement people, everybody wants to hug and all that. Which, again, is absent the way we would contact trace. We dont sort of generalize about where we might be. I would assume the white house has better Contact Tracing than that. That we should be able to establish within the next 12 hours or so, at least they should be able to, who hope hicks was in in contact with. How she may have contracted this. I mean, thats what makes this virus so tricky, though. Everybody in the west wing has s. Not tested every day. The people who come in contact with the president are tested every day. If they are in direct contact with him. But we know these tests arend 100 . But there is 100s of people who work in the white house complex and then the people outside of the white house complex who work on air force one and marine one. And are at the rallies and events that the president comes in contact with. And while, again, if you are in direct contact with the president , you are tested, but if you are in contact with hope hicks, that does not mean that you are tested. So it might be impossible to find out where this came from and, you know, the white house says now it is doing this Contact Tracing and going back and retracing its steps, but this universe of people at this point is so huge, considering how much the president has been traveling and how many people have been in his orbit, ali. Yeah, this is not the normal contained world that its been at the white house precampaign where you could sort of take some measure of whos there on a daily basis. Shannon, thank you. Well be talking again later this evening. Shannon pettypiece from washington. Just want to keep you posted whats going on. Market futures turned sharply lower on this news. At one point, the dow was indicating an open that would be more than 550 points lower in the morning. Moderated a little bit, showing a 1. 5point drop, same thing on the s p 500. Its early. The stock market wont be open for seven hours or so. Joining us now is david plouffe, former senior white house adviser to barack obama and the Campaign Manager for the 2008 campaign. Hes an msnbc political analyst. David, were still sort of trying to figure out just brass tacks here. Who else might be infected and in particular what we dont know, you heard shannon saying we dont know anything from the Vice President s office. For some reason, weve asked the direct question of them and they have not answered us about whether the Vice President has been tested, symptomatic or has been exposed to the president. We dont know from the Biden Campaign either whats been going on. They were in close proximity on tuesday. They were distant. They didnt shake hands, but they were in close proximity. The bottom line is this is a big, big deal at this stage of the campaign. Can well, its a big deal in the campaign. Its a big deal globally. So, first of all, lets talk about the senior having worked in the white house and been on marine one a lot and air force one. The west wing is not as big as it looks like in the tv show. Its an incredibly small office space. The hallways are very narrow. Even the oval office, sometimes the president has meetings with ten or 12 staffers. The chief of staff often has 15 or 18 people crammed into it. Marine one, youve got the senior staff and the president all in a very small space. Its loud because youre in a helicopter. You have to speak loud to be heard. A lot of aerosol. Air force one is not like a flight from newark to chicago. You dont even have seat belts on. Youre Walking Around the whole time. Youre in the president s office. He might be in the conference room. These are all indoor spaces so, you know, there is no social distancing, quite frankly, thats possible. And we know that Wearing Masks wasnt a procedure. So its very scary. You know, as it relates to the campaign, i just think there is a lot we dont know. We have the Vice President ial debate next week. Will that happen . Will there be modifications . The next president ial debate is 13 days from now. The president could be quarantined then. Do they slip . Do they become zoom affairs . I would imagine inperson campaigning is going to be very hard after donald trump has had a the coronavirus to go out and do these superspreading events. The politics of that would be malpractice, much less health malpractice, so there is a lot we dont know. But, you know, 2020 continues to not disappoint in terms of surprises. So, what do you think we havent heard from Vice President biden at the moment, unless i have missed something in the last few minutes. What is bidens response to this look like . Well, first, im sure like all and everyone in america, hell say he wishes the president and the first lady and any Staff Members that are infected a full recovery. That, you know, they are going to have to say has he been tested . What was the result of that. What were the procedures at the debate . As far as we know, they didnt get close to the podium. Theyre going to have to answer a lot of questions irrespective of the campaign because he could be the next president. Mike pence is going to have to offer a lot more information about his whereabouts the last 48, 72 hours, proximity to the president , testing. Were going to have to learn what the protocols are for the staff. So, you know, in the next 12 hours, think whether youre the Biden Campaign, youre the Vice President s office, the white house is going to offer a lot more information. We all deserve it. I mean, he is still our president. These are the people supporting him. If something unfortunately were to go south in terms of the president s health, mike pence becomes even more important in this story. So theres a lot more information i think were all going to need and deserve in the next 12 hours. Yeah, donald trump doesnt always act like the president to all americans, but, in fact, the reality of it is he is the president of all americans when it comes to National Security and governance. At times like this. So we do need to have some information. On tuesday during the debate, he said when asked about a mask, he said donald trump said, tonight, as an example, everyones had a test and youve had social distancing and all the things you have, but i wear masks when needed. When needed, i wear masks. In fact, we know the president virtually never wears a mask unless forced top because hes going somewhere, typically to a medical facility where he might be touring or Something Like that and hes got to put the mask on. He was mocking joe biden, in fact, for wearing a mask. He said hes always wearing his mask. Not going anywhere, hes 20 feet away and he wears a mask. There is this has become a political issue in this country. Is there some chance that by donald trump, who is an antimasker, getting coronavirus that nonsense can stop . Well, lets hope so. I mean wobbles there has been gross mismanagement of the coronavirus from a governmental standpoint, but the messaging, you know, were probably at a point where maybe 1 3 of the country, maybe more than that has not taken it seriously because their president yep. Who they support above all else says dont really wear a mask, you know, the social distancing thing, thats kind of silly. I want to do big crowd events. Everything should be opened up. Im pressuring the cdc to pressure schools to open up. Sporting events should be full. So, yes, listen, if we were not gonna get out of this situation. Unless you have close to universal sound practices. In terms of mask wearing and hygiene and social distancing. And above all else, just taking it seriously. So whatever mistakes the government has made, and a lot were made, downplaying it from the very beginning, we continue this deep into the, you know, this is now were almost seven months from when it really got serious in this country. We still have a healthy percentage of the country in their daily lives not taking it seriously and, you know, the biggest stage we have in politics and the world is the president ial debate stage. And what we heard the other night was dismissiveness. And mocking his opponent for Wearing Masks. I think he called it the biggest mask ive ever seen so, you know, id imagine if for no other reason than politics, that has to stop. Biggest mask youve ever seen. Actually covers his face. So he doesnt spread germs. February 28th of 2020 donald trump called the coronavirus a hoax. David plouffe, thank you for joining us. Donald trump now has the coronavirus. Donald trump and Melania Trump have tested positive for coronavirus after aide hope hicks tested positive for coronavirus. This story is developing. Were covering it all night. Were going to take a quick break. Msnbc continues on the other side. Joining us now, yamiche alcindor, correspondent for pbs news and a msnbc political analyst. Yamiche, pictures from tuesday night, this is after the debate you see President Trump, Melania Trump, you see karen pence and im sorry, you see jill biden and joe biden not coming near each other on the stage. Let me ask you this, yamiche, Vice President pence has tweeted his good wishes for the president and Melania Trump. And we share those good wishes. We hope they are asymptomatic or dont suffer from this. He didnt tell us whether hes been tested or not. That is one of the biggest questions now really that is part of this incredible scenario where the president of the United States has tested positive as a Senior Citizen at 74 for this virus. Ive been reaching out to the Vice President s office. I know that you have reporters at nbc news and msnbc who have been doing the same. Its just not clear whether the Vice President who, of course, works often closely to the president , whether or not his status for the coronavirus is known. Its going to be clear that hes going to have to likely be tested. He is, of course, the next person in line, if anything even gets hairy with President Trump in terms of this virus. Weve said it before and i think its important to point it out again that the president is in a highrisk category, and according to the cdc guidelines, he should be quarantining for at least 14 days. So this really even though the white house doctor says this not going to disrupt this schedule this, of course, is going to disrupt his schedule. Hes already cancelled a trip to florida and is now going to be hosting this call. But to your question, in the United States right now, were now looking at whos next in line and what are the people who are next in line, how are their health . And what we dont know, the big question that we dont have right now, the answer that we dont have is what is the Vice President s status . Yamiche, there is the irony of this because one never wants to take any pleasure in the misfortune of others, the illness of others, and the danger of this remarkable serious disease that has killed more than 200,000 americans, but there are those who are hoping that this is an opportunity for President Trump to change his views on the Public Health advice around masking and social distancing. Something that he mocked as recently as tuesday, including mocking Vice President joe biden about wearing a mask. He called it the biggest mask hes ever seen. He says this guy puts his mask on, even if nobodys around. Youre an expert at this. Do you see any sense that things might change and that they might might embrace a more logical approach to coronavirus . Well, i think this is uncharted territory. The president , of course, said that there was going to be a miracle that did away with this virus. Hes been trying to put the virus and this pandemic in the rear view mirror, saying that essentially the United States is getting through this. And now he, himself, has to contend with the fact that as the president of the United States he could not protect himself from getting this virus. Thats a remarkable statement. The president has been saying that hes going to keep americans safe and now at this point he hasnt been able to keep himself safe, and that underscores how this virus is really infecting and touching americans across socioeconomic lines. Across across gender and racial lines. The fact that the president has all of these resources is essentially the most protected american in the country, the fact that the virus could infect him, it really upends the president s argument that this virus is something that maybe is going to be going away and not to be taken too seriously. Its, again, in some ways, its really hard to tell whether or not the president is going to change his tone because just in the few minutes that this has been breaking, ive been talking to some political strategists and there are two people. There are the people that think the president could look at this and take this more seriously and say, look, i didnt understand how serious this virus was. Now ive had it. I know what it does to peoples body. Or on the other hand, i was asymptomatic, this isnt as serious as people were saying its going to be and people were saying much to do about nothing. The president could say ive had this virus and people shouldnt be scared. There, of course, is the other opportunity that he could as a Senior Citizen say, i did not understand how serious this virus was, and now me and my wife have suffered because of it. Yeah. Yeah, i mean, i i might grow a full head of hair before that happens, but i suppose we should always keep our minds open to possibilities. Yamiche alcindor, pbs newshour host and msnbc contributor. Joining me again, dr. Irwin redlener, an msnbc Public Health analyst. Dr. Redlener, were just looking, my colleague Ayman Mohideen has put out a list of people who may have been in contact with hope hicks during the 48 hours during which she may have been active with this illness and not been in quarantine. Were looking at mark meadows, the chief of staff, first lady Melania Trump, we know shes got coronavirus, representative jim jordan, alice marie johnson, robert obrien, National Security, rudy giuliani, ivanka trump, donald trump jr. Kimberly guilfoyle. A lot of these people are family members and Close Associates of trump. A lot of these people are members of government. If this has spread around that group of people, there are a lot of issues of disaster and the kind of ways in which you deal with this kind of thing. This seems careless, but it could be very dangerous. Could be really dangerous, ali, and all these people have families and other connections and they have staff. Thats right. And i think the network of people who are possibly infected and carrying this virus are just its almost unlimited to how we look at it. But hope hicks may be actually a superspreader. Walking around in close proximity while she was sick. If she had symptoms and yesterday or the day before yesterday and has tested positive, she could have for the last two weeks before that been actually infected and asymptomatic but able to spread the coronavirus. So the network that are going to have to be identified and contact traced, as we say, and tested is vast. And i think, as i said earlier, that since we dont actually know how far the coronavirus can spread from somebody who is infected, i do worry about people who are more than six feet away from them. A lot of people within the sixfoot perimeter, but even on the debate stage with the distance between the president and former Vice President biden, we still could have had transmission of an aerosolized virus if the president was actually infected during the debate. So theres no end to the problems here. But the other thing i think to keep in mind is that this campaign in terms of campaigns as we know them is essentially over. Well still have the election, but almost all of the usual trappings and meetings and visits and debating that would typically be happening in guy gear right now are going to have to go on hold, ali. There was some recommendation that came out from the white house that the people who have been in close contact get themselves tested and consider quarantine. I find that fascinating its a recommendation because the point you just made is interesting. We dont know whether when hope hicks infected the president , and we are assuming thats the connection, i guess its possible that the president got the infection somewhere else, but lets say thats the case. We dont know whether hope hicks was on day one of being contiguous or day 14 of being contiguous. Exactly right, ali. And theres plenty of people who are Walking Around who have who actually have the coronavirus and are not symptomatic because between between the time it you contact and get infected and the time you actually start showing symptoms of the infection, it could be anywhere from a couple of days to two weeks. So we have a vast window in there where everybody that she was in contact with and their families are going to have to be talked to and theyre going to have to get tested. I mean, this is the challenge of, you know, identifying and tracing contacts. That were struggling with all over the country. And now thats come home to the white house. And its its going to be a big, complicated Public Health challenge for the foreseeable future, ali. This was already a big, complicated Public Health challenge. Complicated by this white house and by this president. Who now has to contend with this. And we wish him well. Despite the degree to which he complicated the Public Health response, we wish the president well and we hope that he does not suffer any consequences about symptoms of this illness. Thank you, irwin, good to see you again. Shannon pettypiece with us again. Nbc news senior white house reporter. Shannon, what have you got . Well, i mean, just to bring you up on the timeline, as dr. Redlener was talking about trying to trace how big this was, you know, to emphasize we still dont know how hope hicks was infected. And i would recall everybody back to september 17th when the white house sort of let slip to reporters that there was a positive case in the white house. Back in on september 17th. You know, they had mentioned it to reporters. The president ended up confirming it. We did not get any details on who the president was. The president said it wasnt someone in close contact with him, but this virus could have been circulating around the white house for that long a period of time. Because the white house has not indicated how hope hicks was infected. So thats going to make tracking this all difficult. To this point, obviously, we have the president s health at risk. There is the question about the entire senior staff. You keep putting that list up on the screen of all of the people in the president s orbit who may not only be infected and have to quarantine, but whose health may be at serious risk now as we try to continue on with the running of the country. And theres the people who could have come in contact with the president and other top aides in the past 24 hours between when hope hicks started experiencing symptoms, which we were told was last night, and then this morning when she tested positive, our reporting indicates, the press secretary held a briefing around 11 30 that day. The president travelled to a fundraiser at bedminster late in the afternoon. Came back to the white house. And i will say that the only reason this information first got out about hope hicks being infected, and we started asking these questions, was because of the reporting of my old colleague and good friend Jennifer Jacobs at bloomberg who first reported this story around 8 30 tonight. The white house at that point had not said anything on the record. But they knew. And they knew. Thats the interesting part. When Kayleigh Mcenany gave her press briefing today, the white house knew and the president , who had been exposed to hope hicks, went to a fundraiser tonight in new jersey. Right. Yeah, exactly. That is exactly the timeline. And it was only after this became public and then the president was asked about it on sean hannity and confirmed it that we got a public admission from the white house that the president was infected and there were coronavirus cases going on. We dont even really know when the president was actually tested and when the president found out that he was infected. We dont know that exact timeline, ali. What do we know about the Vice President . We know he tweeted good wishes. Do we know anything about his condition, whether hes been tested or is symptomatic . No, we dont, and, of course, yamiche has been hounding his office all night. I know we have at nbc news. We have not seen the two of them together publicly in a few days. However, the president and the Vice President do a lot of pop no place back and forth. A lot of times the Vice President will pop into the president s office. Theyll have a quick meeting, an exchange here and there. We have not gotten an answer about when the last time was that the president was in contact with the Vice President. We do not know when the Vice President was in close contact with hope hicks. And, again, to this broader point, we dont know who else may be asymptomatic in the white house compound, in the west wing, who is spreading this, who could have also spread to the Vice President. And very notable that they are not saying either one way or another that the Vice President has not been identified as close contact based on their Contact Tracing and does not need a test or just saying whether or not the Vice President s going to get tested. That seems like a simple thing that could be done at this point. Yep. Shannon, thank you for your excellent reporting tonight. Well be getting more of it over the course of the next few hours. And as it comes up on 3 00 a. M. In the east and midnight out west, once again, the breaking news of the night, President Trump and first lady Melania Trump have tested positive for the coronavirus. The news has completely upended the president ial election in ways that we are still sorting through at this hour. And our coverage of this developing story continues right now here on msnbc. Tonight, we begin with a tonight we begin with a remarkable statement. The president of the United States has announced he and his wife have both tested positive for the coronavirus. Donald trump tweeted just over an hour ago. Tonight, flotus, the first lady and i have tested positive. We begin our quarantine and Recovery Process immediately. We will get through this together. Hope hicks accompanied President Trump to his minnesota rally on wednesday