Donald trump. While this deadly disease ripped through their nation, he failed to do his job on purpose. All that and Stacey Abrams on protecting the election when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Well, he knew. He knew. Hes lied to us. Hes circulating insane conspiracy theories. We already know the reality. We see it every day, every night. We document it on this show. And that is that the United States has 4 of the worlds population and 20 of the worlds coronavirus cases and deaths and we know that a large part is because the president has completely bungled the response and then gas lit us all about it with donald trump there is always the question, always, of how much it is sheer incompetence and how much is ma lev lance. Its always a mixture of the two, but the most chartle readings of the president s actions during this pandemic, this catastrophe, is that donald trump is just in over his head in a fundamental way because of his psychological makeup, his narcissism, his short Attention Span he is just constitutionally incapable, literally cant do the job that we need him to do its like former First Lady Michelle Obama said in her speech, he simply cannot be who we need him to be. It is what it is and honestly that has been the large way of the way i thought of it, a big part of how i interpreted these actions. But tonight we have evidence that it is even worse, much, much worse than incompetence we have proof, bedrock proof that he knew we have tapes of him confirming our worst suspicions about donald trump he knew what he was doing. He knew how bad the virus was. He understood it, amazingly, and then he lied and he covered it up and he made it all worse. Its a scandal of Epic Proportions on the plane of weapons of mass destruction of the secret bombing of cambodia arguably the worst coverup in American History and we know this thanks to the reporting by the Washington Post, associate editor of bob woodward, famous for breaking open the watergate scandal in 1972 he conducted 18 on the record interviews with the president between december and july this year with his new book called rage coming out this week. Today he released some of the audio recordings of those interviews and they are just infuriating both in whats said and also that were just learning about them now. Take a listen on what the president said on february 7th keep in mind, this is very early in the crisis here in the u. S. There was still hope it could be contained in china at that point. Even the w. H. O. Thought it might be possible. This is when we should have been building a testing ining r ini. She talked about remote schooling and we all went what and her warning drew a heavy rebuke from trumps white house. Listen to what trump had to say two weeks before. It goes through air, bob. Thats always tougher than the touch. The touch, you know, you dont have to touch things but the air, you just breathe the air. Thats how its passed and so thats a very tricky one. Thats a very delicate one its also more deadly than your you know, even your strenuous flus this is more deadly. This is five per this is 5 versus 1 and less than 1 , you know, so this is deadly stuff. It goes through the air and it is more deadly than the flu thats what the president was saying in private on february 7th. This is what he said in public to the American People the very same day. I spoke spoke to president xi last night, and, you know, were working on the problem, the virus. Its its a very tough situation, but i think hes going to handle it i think hes handling it very well were helping wherever we can. Not a big deal. Its what he said the exact same day he told bob woodward the virus was airborne and deadlier than flu here is what the president said just a few weeks after that. I asked the various doctors, i said, is this just like flu . Because people die from the flu, and this is very unusual and it is a little bit different, but in some ways its easier and in some ways its a little bit tougher, but we have it so well under control i mean, we really have done a very good job. The president had known for weeks at that point that the coronavirus according to the test mates that he was told five times deadlier than the flu. Listen to this next damning piece of evidence. Now its starting out its not just old people, bob but today and yesterday some startling facts came out it is not just older people. Its plenty of young people. I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down. Yes. Because i dont want to create a panic oh, donald trump never wants to create a panic about the super soldiers and ms13 coming to your door to kill you no, of course he likes to calm people down. No, he knows its not just old people its young people, too he tells bob woodward that he likes to play it down and spend month since telling us all, including the last few weeks that young people dont have anything to worry about. No, donald trump wants young people back out in the football field. Get the College Players back out there. These statements from the president , it is like the flu, nothing to worry about theyre going to go away they were lies they werent just mistakes the president knew better and lied joe biden summed it up pretty well this afternoon. He lied to the American People he knowingly and willingly lied about the threat it posed to the people for months. He had the information he knew how dangerous it was and while this deadly disease ripped through our nation, he failed to do his job on purpose. It was a life and death betrayal of the American People it is beyond despicable. Its a dereliction of duty its a disgrace. Failed to do his job on purpose. Pretty good Bumper Sticker its not just that Donald Trumps leadership has been absent here. This is the thing that is so remarkable its not just that hes been absent or that hes been incompetent or bumbling, right thats what people said about Herbert Hoover the president has been working against Public Health, against American Safety and wellbeing he has been on the side of the virus. He has been colluding with what he calls the invisible enemy it would have been better if he took a long vacation starting in february and just spent the rest of the year golfing, as i suggested in march, or if he resigned, as i called for back in june. But instead, he has willfully taken action to lie to us and through those lies to get tens of thousands of americans killed, tens of thousands of americans killed and its still happening and there is no way around that conclusion and even though there is no way around what the president did, today jeff bennett had to remind the white house that everything donald trump said is on tape. See, there is a long litany of praise from dr. Fauci and you are referencing something he allegedly told bob woodward. Its on tape. Allegedly its on tape yes, it is on tape im joined now by geoff bennett. Geoff, how has this landed today for someone that covers this white house and is in that room from time to time . How has this landed . Ill tell you what, chris, the thing that has stuck with me since this revelation, since the Washington Post first reported that audio is that for months we have been reporting on the mixed messaging coming from this white house has it relates to the coronavirus today we found out that, no, it wasnt just mixed messaging. It was deliberate deceit the president today admitted that, yes, i was trying to down play the threat because i didnt want people to panic it was more than that. It was a knowing misleading. The president , according to Bob Woodwards accounting, was warned at the end of january by his National Security adviser that this pandemic would be the biggest threat to his presidency that is something to make alarm bells ring for any president , but, yet, ten days later hes speaking in great surprising detail to bob woodward about how this disease is highly communicable its dangerous its airborne. Two weeks after that, hes telling the American People, it will go away like a miracle. Come april when its hotter out, this disease wont be a thing. Dont worry about it it is just like handling the flu. And more what the president said really, the bigger issue here is what he did not do we now know that february when the president was saying these things, saying one thing to bob woodward in private on the record and saying a very different thing to the American People, we know that there was the disaster related to testing. There were the ppe shortages there was the additional disaster with this sort of stop and start Contract Tracing efforts and studies by Columbia University that if this administration put social distancing measures a week earlier, that could have saved 36,000 lives and the things the president said in private about children i think are particularly heinous and nefarious. To say that, oh, its not just old people, its young people too in private on the record but then to turn around and talk to his friends at fox news and say, you know, young people are really immune to this. There are now roughly a half a million kids in this country who have been diagnosed with covid at least 100 of them have died, chris. I mean, that that, to your point, youre right, it is infuriating. There is no other word for it. You know, its you raise such a good point here you mention the reporting with robert obrian, a National Security adviser january 28th saying this will be the biggest National Security threat you will face in your presidency. This is going to be the roughest thing you face what that highlights to me and what his communication highlights to me is that, look, the president watches a lot of fox news we know that his Information Sources can be pretty dubious and sketchy. We know that we also know that he has access to the entire power of the u. S. Government to brief him on things, right . There are thousands and thousands of extremely sophisticated people inside the Public Health apparatus who go to the president saying, look, these are the reports were getting from wuhan it did get to him. Its not like it didnt get to him. It actually did get to him it actually landed a little bit, which is in some ways surprising and then he actively covered it up yeah. And the other thing and thats a great point that you make and ill build on it and say the president was speaking about how this was all retro spective we are six months into this, at least. As i stand here and talk to you, there is still no National Testing tragedy, no National Mask mandate, no National School reopening strategy so this is a persistent problem, right . One of the reasons why there has been this patch work approach and red states opened up quickly and we saw this resurgence of the virus is because, one, the president knowingly misled this Administration Made a decision they didnt want to be held responsible for the problem so it was easier to push it off on to governors. And thats not a partisan statement. That is a statement of fact. Yeah. Thats right and now that there is some more dimensionality to that in terms of understanding why they did that, because they understood how bad it was going to be according to the reporting, at least, and the tapes of the president. Geoff bennett, thank you for making some time for us tonight. Good to see you, buddy. Now to get his reaction to donald trump intentionally lying about threat of the virus as its sweeping the country and continues to rage, im joined by senator tim kaine. Your reaction to hearing the president speak so plainly, some of the basic and terrifying truths about the virus that early . Well, chris, i think we already knew this is probably one of the greatest domestic political failures in the history of the United States the mishandling of covid that has led the u. S. To have such an unprecedentedly high death toll compared to other nations and economic devastation, so much more damaging than other nations. We were sort of chalking it up to a president who was an antiscience narcissist ignore ramus. But what we learned today is that he actually understood how bad it was going to be and decided to see if he could lie his way out of it, and that just calls to mind so many other fatal missteps in our country when president s have tried to lie to the American People and there has been great suffering but it is one thing to do damage to institutions. It is another thing to do damage that causes the deaths of tens of thousands of americans. My wife and i both had coronavirus. We know four people who have died of coronavirus. The death toll is unacceptably high the economic devastation is unacceptably high. And this president knew it was going to be bad and tried to sweet talk his way out of it its infuriating you know, one thing that this caused me to remember is the fact that, you know, in february, there were briefings happening about this again, the u. S. Government is one of the most powerful countries in the world there were briefings on capitol hill i member chris murphy coming out of a briefing and tweeting and saying, there is not adequate, sufficient planning. I remember of course richard burr was in a briefing on it january 24th was the first briefing we had, and we have members in that briefing who then went out and said the trump team is doing great, but then they sold stocks richard burr, kelly lef ler, readjusted their portfolios to show they were afraid of it. President trump knew how bad it was going to be and others of his cronies and inside circle knew how bad it was going to be, but they were telling the American Public, telling congress, telling the president its going away. There is a few cases we thought it was incompetence we saw that at the time that it was at least incompetence because we never accepted him down playing it, but what we now know is that it was lying. How does this change anything now. I mean, it doesnt in some ways. But i guess what is the sense of what your job is as a member of the u. S. Senate over this next stretch . Because what i find maddening is watching us just go around on this disaster carousel where we pass the same landmarks time and time again now were getting stories about the colleges look, there is outbreaks in colleges well, no duh there are outbreaks in colleges. Are we going to go through another wave of this i mean, 250,000 people go to a motorcycle rally in south dakota and then theyre super spreaders. Who would have thought it . The number of people who are willing to follow this guy like lemmings off a cliff is shocking we had a hearing today in the Health Committee about Vaccine Development that was an informative hearing. Obviously no vaccine should be out until its both safe and effective, and a key competitor for one of the vaccines yesterday had to pull back because of some concerns about side effects from one of their subjects in this test. But we want the vaccine to be out and distributed. But how can we trust a white house to do a Fair Assessment of the science and a Fair Distribution plan when they have been lying to the American Public i pointed out at the hearing today the white house has been unwilling to set a daily testing goal for the country i had to drag out of our testings in may to reopen the economy safely and schools safely by the beginning of september we needed to be doing between 1. 2 1. 3 and 1. 7 million tests a day. At our best we have done 900,000 tests a day. Were 60 of the way there to what the administration has said we should be so weve just got to keep the spotlight on the testing gap and try to get it up with funding and weve got to keep the spotlight on the white house basically lying to the American Public i mean, i was 16 when president nixon resigned it was an administration of lies i saw a president lie our way into an unnecessary war with iraq that did so much damage to our own troops but also to peace in the middle east, security and stability in the middle east this is a set of lies that is that has killed tens of thousands of americans with no shows of remorse, no showing of maybe we should have done it differently. I just hope americans can understand we can make mistakes but i hope americans can understand we can still look in the mirror and acknowledge when we have made a mistake and then try to improve upon it. Senator tim kaine of the commonwet of virginia, thank you for your time tonight. Absolutely, chris ahead the president is on tape admitting he intentionally down played the severity of the pandemic what this means as the country nears 200,000 lives lost after this hey, can i. Hold on one second. Sure. Okay. Okay safe drivers save 40 guys guys check it out. Safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 thats safe drivers save 40 . It is, thats safe drivers save 40 . Hes right there. Its him hes here. Hes right here. Hi hi. Hey thats totally him. Its him thats totally the guy. Safe drivers do save 40 . Click or call for a quote today. Safe drivers do save 40 . When you think of a bank, you think of people in a place. But when you have the chase mobile app, your bank can be virtually any place. So, when you get a check. You can deposit it from here. And you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. You can save for an emergency from here. Or pay bills from here. So when someone asks you, wheres your bank . 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Six days later, we now have this book by bob woodward, which reveals exactly how he feels about the military brats trump complained, quote, my fing generals are excusing an explitive you can read there on your screen i got to say the Coronavirus Response is still the president s single biggest weakness and the most devastating condemnation of him as a president and also as a american and thats why, to me, this moment feels bigger than almost any we have encountered up until now. I want to talk about what this all means with nbc news k corresponde correspondent. Heidi, let me start with you to me, there is so much about donald trump thats precovid and postcovid not that hes changed. But basically the critics of donald trump, and i would count myself among them saying, look, this person is not up to task, and all these different character points will make him dangerous in a crisis if and when a crisis hit and thats when the crisis hits it sort of confirms those worst suspicions what is your reaction to the woodward reporting when you mentioned in the opening, chris, that he failed to do his job on purpose, it really took me back to all of the reporting that i had been doing at the time when the pandemic was just starting to spread unabated. You had the american medical association, the hospital association, the er doctors just beside themselves with why this president would not cord rate a federal response with the states breaking out in bidding wars and ppe shortages. And now we know that it is not because he didnt know that it was extremely deadly it was that he planned to blame those deaths on the states and thats become really clear to me as a reporter who has been covering this from the beginning, chris, looking at this through the prism of donald trump foemting, you know, not just down playing the virus, chris, but actually foemting rebellion in some of these blue states with his tweets saying liberate michigan and trying to not set an example by not wearing a mask. Right. And actually holding rallies. So it wasnt just that he was down playing it. It was that he was actually doing things that voters now have to decide whether they believe those things actually helped seed this virus all across the country because we are really unique. And this cant be stressed enough in the western world in terms of our mortality rate. It is the highest in the western world with the exception of spain according to Johns Hopkins data and that is not a coincidence. You did not have western leaders who have been relatively successful in this like Angela Merkel this really is a situation where the American People are going to look at this and decide whether the difference here was the leadership because certainly when trump says he didnt create coronavirus, its not his fault. Well, thats true. But did he help seed it all across this country by having a major Leadership Void in a plan to eventually punt the blame to the states. Yeah. Adam, there is always this instinct, i think, with revelations about this president sort of do a second order of gaming out as to what matters and what doesnt thats secondary of importance in terms of just getting the record straight here in terms of what was done and what was what he failed to do and what the effects have been for americans across this is whats striking. Disproportionally different kinds of temperatuamericans, bur everyone the whole country has had to deal with the aftermath of this. This is a particular pathology of political journalism, chris, which is you cant make moral judgments about the president negligently making decisions that lead to the death of 200,000 people. So you have to game out how its going to play. In this particular context, the moral nihilism of that approach is made evident. As far as the way these two stories connect, the story about what the president said about American Service members being suckers and his handling of the coronavirus is that this president has no concept of Public Service at all. He doesnt think of himself as a Public Servant he thinks of the federal government as his own property moreover, his philosophy of life is you exploit every Single Person you come across if you dont get what you want from that person, you are a sucker how thats revelatory is that it is a philosophy that reveals his perception of his own supporters, which is that the more they support him, the more they think theyre getting what they want from him he thinks of them as his marks, his suckers because after all, he feels no obligation to protect them from the consequences of what has been one of the worst pandemics in American History well, and that relates again to how important and how dangerous the president s messaging has been because, i mean, we even see Mitch Mcconnell cutting these videos about wear a mask and things like that. A certain percentage listens to what he says a message from him that was clear from the beginning would have absolutely saved lives independent of the policy stuff, just the messaging could have saved a lot of lives well, you cant argue with the numbers, and the numbers show us that from the get go, unlike every other western country again with the exception of spain, we have never had this under control, and it wasnt just the president , it was also state leaders like ron desantis who kept all the beaches open in florida and then at the time that that was happening they were, you know, down playing the severity saying it was going to go away in the summer with the hot weather and then sure enough florida emerged as a major hot spot we have seen that play out over and over again in states such as south dakota that had the rally. A lot of people have been beginning from the beginning that this is a hoax and its over stated. It is hard to unring that bell, even though the president reluctantly started wearing a mask you know, just the other day he was yelling at a reporter in the rose garden to take his mask off. With that kind of messaging, going out to a third of the country, which are die hard supporters, a third of the Republican Party, thats going to have an impact in every state unless everyone is taking this seriously as it has been in other major countries like germany that has been able to get this under control, that is sending their children back to school adam has got that amazing piece in the atlantic about the parallels between now and reconstruction, which sort of capture something i have been wanting to say and havent figured out the way to say for a while. You should definitely check that out. Thank you both for coming on. Thank you thank you. Coming up, how the president s down playing of the virus helped feed what my next guest calls a spiral of bad decisions and bad policies what we can do to break out of it next. Trillions of them. Thats why centrum contains 24 key nutrients to support your energy. So you can take care of what matters most. And try new centrum minis today. Can it one up spaghetti night . Cleaning power of liquid. It sure can. Really . Can it one up breakfast in bed . Yeah, for sure. Thanks, boys. What about that . Uhh, yep it can . Yeah, even that i would very much like to see that. Me too. Introducing tide power pods. One up the toughest stains with 50 more cleaning power than liquid detergent. Any further questions . Uh uh nope one up the power of liquid with tide power pods. ready to juvederm it . Correct agerelated volume loss in cheeks with Juvederm Voluma xc, add fullness to lips with juvederm ultra xc and smooth moderate to severe lines around the nose and mouth with juvederm xc. 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It is like nothing is quite fixed and nothing is quite normal, and we keep making the same series of intuitive mistakes as a society, like somehow believing that things arent as bad as they are, whether its motorcycles with over 400,000 people or tens of thousands of College Students returning to tight spaces on campus and rushing their fraternities in a new piece in the atlantic, one of the finest writers in the pandemic has captured this snap with an interesting metaphor army ants will sometimes walk in circles until they die they have no coordinating force to guide them to safety. They are imprisoned by a wall of their own instincts. It is known as the death spiral. The staff writer at the lan tick joins me now ed, i didnt actually realize that was the origin of death spiral until i read your piece this idea that were sort of trapped by our intuitions and that the sort of pandemic plays on them has always seemed to me a key part of what has made it so difficult lay out what you mean by that. Yeah. So much of the discourse around the pandemic is focussed around a lack of things, of tests and leadership, masks, but its also due to a lack of the right attitude so we keep thinking about the pandemic in the wrong way. For example, we keep on bouncing from one solution to the next, expecting some big Silver Bullet to save us, instead of putting in a web of measures we need like tests and masks and all of the rest of it we keep on longing to go back to normal without taking on the responsibility of carving out a new route in this world that has undoubtedly change we keep on reacting. We keep on being several steps behind the virus instead of ahead of it and we keep falling into the complacency of inexperience people that havent felt the ravages of covid19 firsthand pretend the virus isnt going to spread, isnt going to reach them and fail to adequately prepare themselves these are mistakes that you and i make, that listeners are making and certainly that the person who is meant to be in charge of all this, donald trump, has repeatedly made and exacerbated. Yeah. This is a paragraph that stood out. Many americans trusted intuition to help guide them through this disaster the country is now trapped in an intuition nightmare. Americans are walled in by their own unhelpful instincts which lead them round and round in selfdestructive circles how do we break out of that i guess is my question. I think the piece i wrote hopefully acts as a guide to that i laid out nine areas that we keep on making again and again so the ones the i talked about keep on blaming individuals instead of looking at broken systems. In the clip before i came on, we talked about College Students partying why are we putting all the responsibility for those College Outbreaks on the students instead of administrators who opened colleges without adequate plans to protect their faculty and their students so we need to shift the ways in which were thinking about this problem, which is so huge, so fast and so unfamiliar to most of us. We need to change our thinking to match the scale of the challenge in front of us and i think if we do that, we can compensate for many of the problems of leadership that we have already talked about that clearly are going lly arent gy for several months yet. Part of what i keep coming back to is the idea that this is a problem that can only be marshalled its a public goffnance proble and a policy problem and it can only be solved through coordinated collective effort. And we basically privatized it, right . In the same way that sort of trump kicked it to the governors, like everybody is now in this, well, can i have one person over for a barbecue and should i send my school for high bred so it is a million distributed decisions are being made about Risk Assessment that no one is actually in a great place to make judgments on. And, yet, that is now whats being expected of everyone yeah. Absolutely this is why i use the metaphor at the start ants are capable of collective feets with incredible action, but if they dont have a Guiding Force to lead them and they are restricted from the information thats right in front of them. We can do better we have access to more information about what is going on we have the ability to coordinate with each other, and we have intraspection. We can look at our past mistakes and chart a better way forward thats what we need to do. We need to understand that the world has changed, that this problem is vast. And i hope that the piece helps to guide people through what is one of the greatest challenges we have experienced so far and it sets the template for so many big problems were going to face, Climate Change, the ruwor. This is our small dress rehearsal for Climate Change and we are screwing it up left and right. Do not go anywhere Stacey Abrams is here. How to avoid the worst Case Scenario in november, and she joins me just ahead. I was cu. I faced reminders of my hep c every day. I worried about my hep c. But in only 8 weeks with mavyret. I was cured. Mavyret is the only 8week cure for all types of hep c. Before starting mavyret your doctor will test. 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Feel the joy of movement with voltaren. One of the most prominent republican election lawyers in the down there is a guy named ben ginsburg hes been a bigname lawyer for nearly four decades. Hes represented four of the past six republican president ial nominees, including george w. Bush in fact, ben ginsburg went to war for bush in his president ial recount battle with al gore in 2000 and ginsburg won that war. He helped put george bush in the white house, despite getting fewer popular votes and thanks to a ruling from the republican majority of the supreme court. So this is a guy who is a very, very big deal in republican election circles and no squish which is why the op ed he just put out is so important. Republicans have insufficient evidence to call elections rigged and fraudulent. But even that is an understatement in the op ed, he states the president and his fellow republicans are lying and doing damage to the nation when they claim that voter fraud is a real threat quote, the truth is that after decades of looking for illegal voting, there is no proof of widespread fraud at most there are isolated incidents by democrats and republicans. Elections are not rigged the timing of this strikes me as really important judges have been evaluating numerous lawsuits filed across the country grounded in republican claims of widespread voter fraud. The point of these lawsuits broadly is to suppress democratic votes and help donald trump win. Here you have the top election lawyer in the country very well respected telling those judges looking over the cases, no, elections are not rigged and fraudulent dont buy it thats important perhaps even more important is the sub text here. This strikes me as a declaration by ben ginsburg, part of a small and elite class that he will not be part of any attempt by donald trump to contest the election or sabotage its legitimacy. He is saying he will stand in the way of any of trumps strong man tactics. We all know donald trump may try to ignore the results of the election if he loses to stay in power, and it will really matter, i think, what people like ben ginsburg do in response right now we need to do everything we can to avoidha tt worst Case Scenario. Stacey abrams will be here to discuss exactly what we can do right after this no coverup spray here. Its the irresistibly fresh scent of febreze air effects. [harsh aerosol spray] cheaper aerosols can cover up odors, buryiodors in a flowery fog. Switch to febreze air effects febreze eliminates even the toughest odors from the air. And it uses a 100 natural propellant to leave behind a pleasant scent youll love. Use anywhere odors can spread. Freshen up, dont cover up. 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Isnt that what i said . No you were talking about allstate and insurance. I just. When i. Lets try again. Everybody back to one. Accident forgiveness from allstate. Click or call for a quote today. Were all finding ways to keep moving. But how do we make sure the direction were headed is forward . At fidelity, youll get the planning and advice to prepare you for the future, without sacrificing the things that are important to you today. Well help you plan for healthcare costs, taxes and any other uncertainties along the way. Because with fidelity, you can feel confident that the only direction youre moving is forward. This is after kemp is elected as governor. 200,000 voters wrongly removed just in 2019 this is still very much going on and it feels like it may sort of felt like it worked the last time around so theyre intensifying it in your state. We know voter purging happens throughout the country there are nine states that have it on the books. There are 44 state that uses it as a practice. It is a weapon used against voters unfortunately because of the in c in we know our voter roles are not properly damaged and people have been taken off repeat repeatedly over the last decade. Whats your thought about what the president and the Republican Party is doing right now in terms of the incredible array of lawsuits, sort of attacking it at many different levels, filing to make sure, doj filing alabama to make it harder to vote my mail and you have to have two signatures and campaigns involved to make sure people cant vote by mail and in montana and drop boxes in pennsylvania it is remarkable of how much effort they put into this. Donald trump said it himself and republicans echoed it. Every person in america entitled to vote pass the ballot. Thats not a function of democracy is not working theyre afraid that democracy will work. It is critical that we push back it is not about democrats or republicans. It is about a process we have as a nation for choicing o choosin leaders. Republicans refuse d to see any support, supporting the communities that are trying to grow and dealing with the racial reckoning in our country theyre using the attack that works f worked for many parties in the past there has been a lot of concerns of mailin voting or voting in person our healthcare expert and worked in the Obama Administration recently said, look, if you go earlier if you have a place thats fnot crowded, voting can be done safely i mean what message do you think democrats or any politicians are going to vote. Dont panic and make a plan and if you have the ability to vote by mail, use it there are multiple ways to return your ballots, you can return it to your drop box or the u. S. Postal service or take it to your polling place or county Election Office it protects voters who dont have a choice about being in line number two, vote early if you vote early you have the opportunity to be in shorter lines. The reality is dr. Emanuel will presume we have to recognize in places like georgia, nevada and kentucky and wisconsin we have seen hours of long lines, eight hours it is hard to maintain social distancing or remaining your sa sanity when you have to stand in line for eight hours final questions on the census which is something you have been active in. We have seen a lot of indications of the Trump Administration trying all sorts of way to mess with it there was a cut back of the inperson door knocking and a temporary restraining order and you cant cut it back. Are you confident where things stand in terms of the census now . Not at all. We know the Census Bureau needed fulltime to complete this we cant do this on time if we have this truncated process. If they have asking more time, the Trump Administration realizes more time means more accuracy we need people to take action in on hand on my census Stacey Abrams, thank you for being with us. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Thank you, chris. I dont mean to make light of this and downgrade the