Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20200529

Four officers involved in his arrest and subsequent death to be charged with murder. While the officers were fired within 24 hours of all this becoming public, its been three days and still no one has been charged. Its worth noting unlike a lot of protests weve seen, the protrump anti lockdown protesters that have shown up, the people protesting the killing of george floyd from the very beginning have been met preemptively by police in riot gear. They have used tear gas and rub be rubber bullets against the protesters. They said it would be a top priority but the fbi held a press conference which was strange to say the least. We expected some sort of announcement. In fact, they appeared to think they would do that, too. Possibly about charges for the officers but then it was delayed two hours and then when they showed up, they had nothing to announce. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is that all your ducks are in a row before you make that charging decision. You cant undo what youve done if you rush, but if you take that time, youre going to do it right the first time and youre going to get it done the first time. That video is graphic and horrific and terrible and no person should do that, but my job in the end is to prove that he violated a criminal statute, and there is other evidence that does not support a criminal charge. Please, give me and give the United States attorney the time to do this right and we will bring you justice, i promise. George floyds killing has sparked protests across the country including memphis, los angeles where protesters blocked a freeway. This was the scene a short time ago in Union Square New york city. Police and protesters engage in a violent confrontation. Police seen there shoving protesters. Situation in minnesota is escalating. Some have come out and also set fires engaged in looting, im sure youve seen those images. Today democratic governor tim waltz activated the guard as Community Leaders urged calm. Well monitor the scene throughout the night here on msnbc. Joining me now, Shaquille Brewster live in minneapolis where protests are taking place. What is the scene there like right now . Reporter well, chris, what you heard from protesters and what youve been hearing from protesters all week long, they will remain protesting and continue to demonstrate until the obvious solution happens, which in their mind is an arrest of the officers involved in the death of mr. George floyd. We, as you mentioned, we heard from the fbi. We heard from officials both dealing with the federal investigation and the state investigation and they didnt have many answers. They preached and pressed and emphasized the idea they want to be meticulous with the investigation. They want to be thorough and make sure they have their ducks in a row. They said because you see excessive conduct, that doesnt necessarily mean it is criminal. Thats what they are trying to thread, thats the needle they are trying to thread. If you talk to protesters and have conversations with them and even the family of mr. Floyd, theyre saying that video that you saw, that tenminute long video where you saw the officers knee on mr. Floyds neck, thats all you needed to see. They are saying do the investigations later, thats enough to arrest this officer and have him go through criminal proceedings. Meanwhile, here on the ground in minneapolis, the protests continue to happen. I just want to share a bit of a conversation i had with a protester. Remember, in minneapolis this is a city thats seen protests where its become munties and police. Theyve seen these clashes before. Listen to what this protester told me a couple hours ago. Clearly, the policing system in america is broken. Unfortunately, this is a manifestation of long trama and long frustrations. I mean, these individuals arent, you know, getting angry for no reason. The under lining symptoms is the Police Department in america, and the policing system in minneapolis. We need to go ahead and completely abolish the system, complete all over. Right now its not an image of the community to be honest. Reporter mr. Floyd was the 11th person in the past ten years to die in the hands of minneapolis Police Department. Thats the frustration that you hear among protesters, they are tired of seeing this they say. They feel there is a clear divide here. This is a clear cut case in their mind and they just want action to happen and they want action to happen immediately, chris. They say they will be out here. They will continue to protest. Many of them want to do it peacefully and thats what were seeing behind me is a scene where weve seen clashes in the past couple days but its been a pretty quiet scene. People are playing music and speaking signs. They are encouraging people to clean up some of the mess that you saw yesterday after things really descended. Theyre saying they will continue to protest. They wanted it to happen peacefully and will continue to protest until they see an arrest of the officers involved, chris . Just want to follow up, shaquille. The Hennepin County attorney mike freeman in the joint press conference with the u. S. Attorney, you know, sort of basically saying give us time kind of also sort of chastising the protesters, unfavorably comparing to baltimore where the officers were charged and acquitted. Did you hear reaction of what freeman said today . Reporter not really. Ill tell you, unlike this wasnt a major announcement. It was somewhat confusing press conference where they said yes, well have justice and want justice for the family but give us more time. Because of that, its not a scene where there is a push alert on peoples phone and people hear what was going on. So many of the protesters didnt mention that. Their bottom line and this is what they keep repeating, every conversation i have with someone is they believe the officers should be arrested. This is what you heard the mayor of minneapolis say. He said if there were anyone else, if this were not a Police Officer, this person would be arrested. If this were a black man, black men have been put in jail for far, far, far less crimes or evidence. Thats what you hear and thats the tone from protesters. They think this is simple enough that the officers involved should be arrested and thats their bottom line. All right. Shaquille brewster is doing fantastic work out there in the streets of minnesota. Thank you, shaquille. Reporter thank you. I want to bring in Pilar Menendez a reporter at the daily beast who had a great piece today titled cop who kneeled on george floyd tried to kill me in 2008. The Police Officer David Chauvin has a record. You found an individual who had a run in with him so to speak. Tell me what your reporting said. Yeah, so i was told today in 2008, chauvin was one of several officers that reresponsiblspond offi house for a Domestic Violence call. Without warning, the police entered his house. He ran into the bathroom. He says chauvin entered the bathroom and started beating him up and then shooting him in the stomach thats so close range he still has a bullet wound and hole in his stomach today. So he this was in 2008. So this was 12 years ago. He shot him, he discharged his weapon and shot him in the stomach at close range in his own bathroom. Correct. So basically si, he said the r of his child called for Domestic Violence cause but chauvin and other officers entered the house without warning and came into the house and started immediately going for him. He hid in the bathroom. He said when chauvin broke down the door, he responded to c chauvin hitting him and hit back. He doesnt remember being shot but remembers getting walked out to the end and remembers falling out the front door. He was at the hospital for two days before he was brought to court. Chauvin was placed on administrative leave, not for long because he was still on the force until recently. He had to, toll said he had to make a plea deal in this case that made him plead guilty to the misdemeanor but drop the two felony charges. Something he says that will stay on his record obviously that hes going to have to deal with and he actually was first surprised when he saw that chauvin, his name come up during the george floyd case and first he didnt recognize the face of the man who shot him in the bathroom but once he heard the name, it was clear it was the same person. This Police Officer nbc news reported and others because there is a public database with complaints had numbers of complaints. This was not the only time i think that he fired his weapon on duty and if im not mistaken. Absolutely, the database you were reperring to has over a dozen cases against chauvi nrn many of them have to do with excessive force. He started in 2001 so throughout his career, he only got two verbal reprimands and Everything Else was swept under the rug. Some of the other cases i think are pretty notable was in 2006 chauvin was involve in a Fatal Shooting of a 42yearold. In 2007 he was also one of five officers who was involved in a nonfai nonfai no nonFatal Shooting of a native american man. He had disciplinary actions in the past but none warranted him getting suspended or anything, the reprimands. So im sorry, so im clear, there was a Fatal Shooting and i seen that reporting. There is other complaints and a nonFatal Shooting of the individual you interviewed shot in the stomach in his bathroom and another nonFatal Shooting. Yes, in 2011 the officer was one of five placed on a threeday leave for a nonFatal Shooting. Mr. Toll i think is his name, the individual that you yes interviewed, what was his response . I know he was surprised and didnt quite remember and texted with his sister who said that was exactly the individual, his take away on what the situation is now . Yeah, so i mean, today when i spoke to him, he was pretty angry that chauvin was not only still on the force but believes if he was reprimanded for what he did in 2008 that george floyd would be alive today. He told me while he hasnt protested himself, he is one of many people in the community that are just completely fed up with the minneapolis Police Department. He told me that, which i thought was funny, not only they reached their Tipping Point but if boiling water is 212 degrees, that the people in minneapolis are at a 06 600. They are fed up once he realized it was chauvin and did something stock stopped if he went through the proper procedures, george floyd would still be here. Did the reporting from the daily beast thank you for making time for us. Thank you so much. I want to bring in jeremiah who represents ward five of minneapolis on the city counsel. And councilman, i wonder how youre reacting tonight to the latest developments, particul particularly the announcement by the u. S. Attorney and Hennepin County attorney they need to take time and further consider the weight of the evidence. I think its a huge mistake. I think that no other individual, regardless of race or anything would enjoy this much discretion, would enjoy this kind of leeway after they killed someone so blatantly and so brazenly and so cruelly in the manner that this officer killed george floyd. What is your response to learning as we have that there have been, there is a paper trail here . There have been a number of complaints, there have been a number of there is one Fatal Shooting, two nonFatal Shootings involving this officer about what it says about the department and the departments ability to apply accountability or to fairly assess the actions of his officers . You know, regrettably, i have to say im not that surprised. In minneapolis, we have begun this very recent, i think, intense reform of our Police Department but lets be honest, no amount of training and no amount of diversifying your police force is going to create the level of accountability that you need if criminal behavior is not met with criminal consequences for Police Officers. I think that we have had a history as a city, you know, especially before my time here of sort of the slap on the wrist approach saying hey, youre a Police Officer. Your job is hard and you did something awful but were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I think that that kind of culture has really poisoned the well so to speak here in minneapolis and certainly created a lot of bad will between the public and police. Ive seen some statistics that rank major metro areas and their Police Department, the percentage of Police Officers that live in the city limits and minneapolis is very low on that list, which is to say if im not mistaken, the majority of the Police Officers in the force are living outside the city. I wonder your feelings about that whether you think that contributes to some of the issues here . I think its nearly 94 of our police force do not live here in the city of minneapolis. I think that this is highly problematic but, you know, i do think that the accountability, right, consequences for your actions is going to go the furthest. Im in favor of these reforms where people need to live where they work. Im in favor of us diversifying the police force and in favor of us and our training. That goes out the window if somebody knows they sort of have Carte Blanche when they go out to abuse the community. Do you feel like theres a solution here . I mean, the sort of short Term Solution the protesters want as my colleague Shaquille Brewster was saying is criminal charges here in the case of what happened, but, you know, we have been covering this, ive been covering this as long as ive been on television. Weve seen case after case similar to this, often similar profiles, often other officers with charges before in small suburbs and small towns and weve seen it in big cities and big cities with diverse Police Forces and big cities with not particularly diverse police. As someone on the Minnesota City counsel, what is your thoughts on that . I hate to sound like a broken record but i think in every equation where you see an officer misconduct and as you said, its a huge issue all across the country in all settings, the one thing that people lack is that level of accountability. When officers commit criminal acts, they often do not receive criminal consequences and i think that is the key ingredient here towards getting some level of accountability. You know, i think the other solution, if i may, is to, is for us to really do an inventory what kind of 911 calls we actually get around the country. I know we are doing that hear in minneapolis and figuring out which one of them require a Police Response. George floyd, you know, its alleged he wrote a 20 forged check. So 20. 20 of a forged check is what ended up being a death sentence for him. That is insane. Does a forged check require somebody with a gun respond . Does a forged check require this level of violence . And does this whole situation warrant, is it worth the amount of unrest that were experien experiencing here in the city . I think not. Councilman, the first time i had the pleasure to speak to you and i hope i get to do it again. Thank you for taking the time tonight. Thank you for having me. Dont go anywhere, our coverage continues. The protests in minnesota on the death of george floyd right after this. Before you take anyt, i recommend applying topical relievers first. Salonpas lidocaine patch blocks pain receptors for effective, nonaddictive relief. Salonpas lidocaine. Patch, rollon or cream. Hisamitsu. You should be mad they gave this guy a promotion. You should be mad at forced camaraderie. And you should be mad at tech that makes things worse. But youre not mad, because you have e trade, whos tech makes life easier by automatically adding technical patterns on charts and helping you understand what they mean. Dont get mad. Get e trades simplified technical analysis. vo love. Its what weve always said makes subaru, subaru. And right now, love is more important than ever. In response to covid19, subaru and our retailers are donating fifty million meals to feeding america, to help feed those who now need our help. 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An economic recovery that left a lot of people behind and a criminal Justice System out of control and police who killed black men and women across the country in painful videos that were publicized leading to wide spread social protests, sometimes unrest. Candidate donald trump thought this would be the theme. The idea the country went to hell in a hand basket because of the first black president that wasnt maybe born here and maybe a secret muslim. Let get it back to make America Great again. Everything he talked about was how the economy was broken and unemployment, the election was rigged, the country was a disaster. He campaigned saying america is a hell hole and elected with the minority of the vote. Donald trump put the darkest possible cast on the state of affairs vowing to end what he called american carnage. Well, now here we are not even four years after he made his american carnage speech. The first three years he was terrible but at least the economy was kind of cruising ahead. Now, now were in the middle of a once in a century pandemic. It worth taking a second at looking where we are right now. More than 100,000 americans are dead after the first confirmed coronavirus case in the country. Dead from the pandemic. The president claimed multiple times over and over he had it under control while he did basically nothing. At least 40 Million People lost their jobs. Were staring into an uncertain future where its unclear when and how the economy comes back and how many people the virus will kill, how many people will get sick . The virus is still growing in pockets of the country. Over the weekend, arizona had record high levels of hospitalizations. E. R. Visits related to the coronavirus statewide. North carolinas coronavirus hospitalizations hit alltime highs for the second straight day. Travis county, texas, some of the States Capital in austin had the biggest oneday jump since the start of the outbreak. That is all laid on top of the existing streuctural problems here in america when donald trump was elected. The problems that he so cynically exploited, the problems that have only gotten worse under his tenure like the basic inequality and desperation so Many Americans understandably justifiably feel about the social order and a criminal Justice System that disproportionately harms African American and latino people that particularly treats black citizens like subjects of a Foreign Authority to be occupied, not citizens and not constituents. And this is what it looks like right now in the state of minnesota. A state whose Unemployment Rate is a 37year high and coronavirus cases are surging particularly in the predominantly black seede Cedar Riverside and to protest the killing of george floyd. Black men who died after a white Police Officer knelt on his neck as floyd said i cant breathe. People have been protesting for three days now, many of which are out there in mac masks in t middle of a pandemic. At the same time over the last month, there are armed men showing up to state capitals with long guns. Men who face little sanction for the men nic men urged on by the subtle and nod and profess a desire for violence against the state in a second civil war. And there is no plan from the president who warned against american carnage for the carnage and chaos we are living through now. Not the pandemic. Not the economic crisis. Not the societals inequity, not predatory policing, not the protest in minnesota, nothing except to make it worse and sell chaos and dig cord and bigotry and help the smaller part of the country that follows him is enough to win an election again. This is what Donald Trumps america has brought. Not great again. 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As weve noted, this are protests around the country tonight in a variety of cities including memphis, tennessee, denver, colorado and minneapolis. Thats the scene in denver at the moment where protesters are blocking an intersection. Similar protests in the aftermath of the death of george floyd. His neck was under the knee of a Minneapolis Police officer as he said i cant breathe. He was pinned to the ground and had no pulse. There are no charges or arrests for the officers involved. Joining me is president and director of counsel of the naacp Legal Defense fund. You have worked on cases like this before you and i have talked through the years. What do you think needs to happen in the short term in minneapolis . Well, i think, chris, the key here is that weve been around this circle before and the community is now educated about what should happen and the first thing that needs to happen is we need transparency. We need all of the information. Today we heard the states attorney from Hennepin County say hes not charging the officers because there is some other information or video that suggests perhaps there should not be criminal charges and i was very disappointed with this baiting of the public. If there is something he has, he should reveal it and give the public a chance to see it. Ive been calling for the release of the Police Incident report. I would like to know what those officers said happened when they got back to the station house. Weve seen the Fire Department report but we havent seen the incident report and this is important baulz ecause it was vy important for who killed walter scott and gave an account of what happened in his encounter with walter scott which was different from the video. This was different in chicago when mcdonald was killed and claimed mcdonald was coming towards him with a knife and the video revealed something different. That the important not only for the officer who so brutally and awfully killed george floyd but for the officers on the scene and bystanders. Did they cosign a false account . The first thing that needs to happen is we need more transparency and more information and secondly, i would say im very impressed with the mayors empathy and with his willingness to speak out very early about what he saw and to tell the truth about what he saw. But i am also concerned about the Police Response to protesters and the talk about property damage. People want justice. They want to know what is going to happen. Id like to see the mayor talking more, just not at a Noon Press Conference every day. He needs to be able to talk in the evening and not just in city hall. He needs to be out on the street and talking with people and telling them what is going to happen. People are not patient and understandably so because they want justice. I should note the mayor of the city of minneapolis will be on with my colleague Rachel Maddow in the hour after us. There will be you will be pressed on all of those. Ben crump had this to say about the city. He said city leaders need to understand the communitys grief for the horrific killing and george demands more than condemnation and personnel action. Im speaking to the councilman earlier in the show that there seemed to be structural issues, particularly the fact the record of this officer particularly is seeming to have a lot of red flags, i got to say. Well, lets talk about the very use structural flags that are here in this incident. Lets first talk about the city of minneapolis. The city of minneapolis has experienced, you know, these killings before and as a result, the department of justice after the last incident of unrest in the city of minneapolis actually did a study and released a report that provided a whole set of recommendations about how to deal with these kinds of issues and particularly civil unrest. Ive read the report and seen recommendations and see no evidence the recommendations have been implemented to try to quail some of the more extreme measures that the police have taken in terms of the unrest. Then secondly, this Police Department has a terrible record. The Racial Disparities in the use of force and Police Brutality are extraordinary. This is a Police Department that in my view in any other time i would say chris, is right for a department of justice pattern and practice investigation. We know this department of justice has virtually abandoned any effort to investigate structural discrimination in Police Departments. So we have very little hope. But it also true that this officer has this incredibly long record of complaints and that tells you that there is a structural problem within the Police Department as it relates to discipline and accountability. Hes also a senior officer. You see those officers sitting around watching him. Hes the training officer, the superior guy. There is a deep problem within the department. Ive asked for the department of justice to get involved because i think we shouldnt stop asking the department of justice to do their job but its important to point out it was almost a year ago to the day that the department of justice decided not to bring civil rights charges against the officer who killed eric garner and, you know, we had a video there of someone being choked to death. Eric garner being choked to death saying i cant breathe. We had no charges in the city. It sat with the department of justice for years. Reports suggest the lawyers of the sieve rigcivil rights divis recommend civil charges be brought against the officer and bill barr the attorney general countered it. The Legal Defense fund refiled a request asking for information about the basis for that change decision but i would remind people of that as we hear that the department of justice is investigating. We hear the president saying this is so bsad. Remember they refused to bring charges against the officer who we also saw on videotape choked to death eric garner. Sherril, i want to under score, we did get good pattern and practices in the last few years from the Obama Administration and reports on the cleveland Police Department and ferguson Police Department among others that provided tremendous evidence and sort of a way forward and thats completely absent, totally absent from the department of justice under both Jeff Sessions and now attorney william barr. Thank you for making time for us tonight. Thank you, chris. When we come back, an up update on the ground in minneapolis where protestors returned to the streets to protest the death of george floyd. Were continuing to monitor the scene in minneapolis where protesters are demonstrating against the killing of george floyd earlier this week. I want to bring in a star reporter at the tribune. He joins us by phone where hes been covering protests. Chow, whats going on there now . Well, what were seeing is multiple protests spread across the city. Today the protests had even shed blood in st. Paul next door where people looted businesses in a couple different spots which weve never seen before in these types of cases. What is your sense of the context here as a local reporter in this city . You know, it strikes me that there is a lot of people that have been dealing with both Police Violence for a long time, there are longstanding complaints in minneapolis Police Department and dealing with the pandemic and stress and danger of that and cooped up in houses and there are a lot of pressures on people right now. What is the context for what were seeing here . There really is. I think an important part of the context is that as progressive and as minneapolis and minnesota is of the state, socially and financially, there is a huge disparity and some of the worst disparities in the country for people in terms of earnings, education, and jobs. Thats definitely part of the under current of the tension were experiencing today in relation to the george floyd case. This is no long aerosier a sing incident. The black minnesotans have been dealing with this their entire lives in our state. Can you tell us a little bit more about the context of the Hennepin County attorney. He was at that press Conference Today and sort of, you know, cautioned people. We played the clip of him talking about there might be evidence as this Police Officer did not commit a crime and the longer version was him saying look, give me time and trust me and im the only one who has ever gotten the conviction of a Police Officer for this kind of thing. What is freemans record like . You know, most prosecutors and freeman have not charged officers in the death of civilians. Hes one of three that have charged cops in the last few years and his office is the only one that won a conviction. Thats not really enough for the community. They questioned whether previous cases were thoroughly investigated. The fact his only conviction was against a somali officer doesnt sit well with the black community, as well. Thats interesting. I remember that case. That was a Police Officer and the Police Officer himself was somali american and that was where the conviction yeah, correct. He shot and killed a white australian woman in a nicer neighborhood in minneapolis. What is your sense of what the kind of bright lines here in terms of the demands. Shaquille brewster our reporter said look, the protests will continue. The sense of unrest and outrage will continue in the absence of charges. I mean, i remember when i was in baltimore, that was very clear with respect to fredy knedie gr. Is that your sense here, as well. Certainly is. Earlier this afternoon, al sharpton was in minneapolis at the scene where george floyd was killed. He said im going to be back over and over again until we get justice for george floyd and i definitely think the community is on that bandwagon in the middle of summer, not even the middle but the start of summer and we have all summer long for people to get out there and demonstrate. Clark, that demonstration lasts through the late fall and literally here we dont have that as a mitigating factor. All right. Chao xiong reporting for the great daily paper in that town. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Dont go anywhere, paul butler and phillip will join me next. This for a long time. They will, but with accident forgiveness allstate wont raise your rates just because of an accident, even if its your fault. Cut sonny. Was that good . Line the desert never lies. Isnt that what i said . No you were talking about allstate and insurance. I just. When i. Lets try again. Everybody back to one. Accident forgiveness from allstate. Click or call for a quote today. Heres one small way you can help them in return. Complete your 2020 census today. Census data helps communities plan funding for hospitals and emergency services. Respond now at 2020census. Gov. I but what i do count on. Ts anis boost high protein. Rs, and now, theres boost mobility. With key nutrients to help support. Joints, muscles, and bones. Try boost mobility, with added collagen. Protests are continuing tonight in minneapolis following the death of george floyd, an africanamerican man who was pinned to the ground by an officers knee earlier this week and as he said i cant breathe, he remained pinned and then he died. Here with me now two people who not only understand what is going on today but understand the history, the causes of what were seeing, philip, the cofounder and president of the center for policing equity which analyzes data from across the country to help Police Departments address issues of inequality and paul butler former federal prosecutor in the department of justice Public Integrity unit author of the book choke hold. Philip, let me start with you. On this note. Down to the words uttered by this man, as he died, there is, it feels like we have seen this before. And ive just been covering this full time for seven years. And you work on this full time. And i guess my feeling is how do you not give up in this sense, how do you feel like things get better or there is progress or people are listening, because it feels so often to so many people and people ive talked to over the past few days like it is running in circles. Yes, thats just real. So i mean minneapolis is one of our closest partners so this is a gut punch to all of us that do the work there, to the folks who were on the ground, the organizers that we partner with, i got to say, one of the most frustrating things and one of the most despiriting things in all of this is that you will see a murder like this. And then a week or two later, cameras disappear, National Attention disappears, and in this political cycle with all of this stuff going on i would be surprised if it is not sooner, and the folks who were in pain, who were bleeding on the streets, either literally or in the way that they are protesting and uprising, theyre saying where did everybody go . And all of the attention that had been able to sustain actual progress in minneapolis, and in other cities, from 2014, through to 2016, it disappeared when this administration showed up. Because all the other social ills started to bubble up. So part of what im hearing from my folks in minneapolis and what i hear from my team is we had attention, we had momentum, we had a chief who wanted to dot right set of things, and now because nobody was paying attention the last couple of years, were now just starting over again, were starting with the great crushing disappointment of what it is like to put your whole life into something and watch it crumble. This question about how to sort of sustain action here, paul, i know that there has been, and in the case of minneapolis, there was a sort of progressive challenge to mike freeman, the county attorney there in 2018, that he managed to defeat, but there have been a variety of progressive prosecutors elected throughout the country, most notably in philadelphia, larry crassner who have attempted to recast the entire approach of the system of criminal justice. There has been real on the ground progress in that respect. Where do you think things stand right now . Well, in this case, simply firing the officers is too little too late. We have to look at structural changes. This isnt a concern about a couple of bad apple pops. In the first place, what happened that this officer was still on the force . He has been involved in three different incidences of killing people, he and his colleagues, use of deadly force, three different times, there are 12 complaints that civilians have filed against him, so was he Walking Around licensed to kill . We know that the Police Report is a lie. The original Police Report said that mr. Floyd resisted arrest. Thats not what the video shows. What is it about the culture of this Police Department that three other officers could literally watch another cop snuff out the life of mr. Floyd. Mr. Floyd literally narrates his own demise, and these cops didnt do a damn thing. They didnt speak up at all. So this is about our cultural and institutional and structural problem, not just with police in minneapolis but all over the country. It is true that it is very bad in minneapolis, 20 of the citizens are africanamerican, and 60 of the people who are killed by cops are black in that city. But the problem is nationwide. Philip, i wanted to get your thoughts on. So images that weve seen, as you watch the police grab mr. Floyd there, shortly before he was killed, and weve seen images of the protests and obviously there have been fires set, there have been stores broken into, and under almost all circumstance, police are going to do something about that. But independent of that, and even going back to the first night where there really wasnt any of that, the difference in Police Reaction to mr. Floyd and protesters compared to what weve seen in scene after scene play out in state capitals in which weve watched protesters who are armed with guns, in the faces of Police Officers, i mean two inches away, like screaming in their faces, and i watched Police Officer after Police Officer in this footage a model of forbearance, the model of restraint, there were people shoving cops on the State Capitol in california and i thought to myself, my word, that would not fly in, on the corner in the bronx, and as someone who works with police, what do you make of that, when you see it . In 2008, i had the opportunity to be imbedded with the denver Police Department during the dnc. I was walking with a district commander at the time. Africanamerican sergeant. Africanamerican lieutenant. District man was africanamerican. And i started hearing drum beats and i heard no justice, no peace and no racist police. And i was familiar with the chant and i was surprised it was coming from a bunch of white people who got right up in the face of Law Enforcement. They were spitting. That night, there were feces hurled in the face of Law Enforcement. They were wearing shields but we clapped, literally spattering in front of your face and i was shocked and impressed the way Law Enforcement were able to hold their cool and tamp down. So it is possible that that happens. But what paul was talking about is i think the real route to all of this stuff. We have decided that blackness, its okay to say that blackness is just dangerous. Like its tolerable to decide that i feel threatened or if you feel threatened, that whatever happens to the black body in front of me, thats all right. Thats not just a policing issue, though it is a policing issue, thats an american issue. I dont think that we should be talking about this as awful as it is, in minneapolis, without talking about what happened in, without talking about the weaponization of white fear, and the protection of white incident and that is what is happening in central park and the cops are called on a bird watcher and i dont want to say names but also the steps in the capitol of michigan and this is your innocent right to protest, it cant be any more sinister than that, showing up to the state house with a long gun and trying to make sure people dont engage in the practice of democracy, it cant be more sinister than that, and yet you have peoples options and chances taken away from them and they feel as if the state is hunting then, we cant give them the space to find a way to express that, without saying you need to get back, you need to be able to behave, you need to comply. This isnt just a police issue. This is how weve decided to frame dangerousness and blackness, and its generations old and i got to say, its exhausting. Paul, a final thought from you on the thing that councilman ellison told me this morning, told me earlier in the show, basically, which is in a broader sense, do four armed men need to show up with what appears to be maybe a possibly counterfeit 20 bill or 10 bill or a check, it is a little unclear. As the root of the way that we approach this . Eric garner was killed for selling a single tobacco cigarette on the streets. Mr. Floyd allegedly tried to use a counterfeit 20 bill, and yet, the law authorizes the police to make arrests for minor crimes like that, and to use deadly force if the person is uncooperative, and so that doesnt need to happen. We need to change the law. We need to understand that the real crisis isnt whats going on in the streets tonight in minneapolis, the real crisis is that the streets have never been safe for black people and brown people in minneapolis. Philip, paul, thank you, gentlemen, both, for sharing that. Appreciate it. That is all in for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Good evening, rachel. Good evening, chris. Thanks, my friend. Appreciate it. And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. This has been just a remarkable day in the news today. And i dont mean that in a good way. I almost never do. Today, we got word that for a tenth straight week, millions of americans have filed for unemployment. In the past week, the record before this pandemic crisis was like 600,000