Countries, we are behind and the waters are rising. That the the reality right now. In the beginning, President Trump viewed this as a political issue. He told us early on he didnt want to take infected americans off a cruise ship because he didnt want the numbers to go up, which may partially explain why we are so behind on testing. Hes come out day after day in the last week to offer big, bold promises that then prove to not be true. The google site that would help you figure out if you need to be tested and where, what happened . The drive up test in target and walmart parking lots, where are those . Today he said were making mace masks, were making ventilators. We dont know if thats through. While the president s tone is probably the least important issue we face, his response to the most natural answer to Peter Alexander tells you evening you need to know about how the president is viewing this crisis. Americans are scared, 200 dead, 14,000 sick, millions, as you witnessed, who are scared right now. What do you say to americans watching you now who are scared . I say that youre a terrible reporter. Thats what i say. I think thats a very nasty question and i think its a very bad signal that youre putting out to the American People. The American People are looking for answers and theyre looking for hope. And youre doing sensational ism and the same with nbc ex comcast. I dont call it comcast, concast. Let me tell you something, thats really bad reporting and you ought to get back to reporting instead of sensational list m. L lets see if it works. No, it doesnt work. While he was doing that, we learned of larry cosure coming the illness. California is on lockdown. Illinois is on lockdown. New york state is on lockdown. New york city is undisputedly now the epicenter of this pandemic, here in the u. S. , this week, this week. The number of confirmed cases has grown from 464 on monday when we started this week to over 5,000 by this afternoon. Now, thats partly explained by a massive increase in testing in new york city metro area. Today mayor bill de blasio said onethird of all coronavirus cases in the trocountry are in york city. 1200 people in the state have been hospitalized, all but a few in the new york city metro area which means, we are starting to get very close to seeing the edges or the beginnings of the edges of our hospital capacity. In the last few hours the wall street journal and New York Times public pieces about the strain the virus is putting on the citys hospitals and unless extremely dramatic action, overwhelming federal force and coordination are brought to bear this problem, this is what new york might be facing, sky news got ok seaccess to a hospital ae scene inside is just devastating. This is the main hospital in lom lombardy. Its one of the most advanced hospitals but the most hardhit of all the hospitals in italy, the town is the center of the epidemic here. This is not a ward, its a waiting room. People are on gourn knurn knees meetings rooms, everywhere. Staff want people to see what is happening and lock nations down or face this. Italy had the worst death it will today two weeks after the country went into lockdown. Andy, former acting administration for medicare and Medicaid Services and comprehensive congressional proportional for a covid19 response. Andy, ive been talking to you and following you on twitter. Youre talking to Health Experts across the country, doctors, Public Health officials, hospitals, what is the latest youre hearing as of today . Well, the first thing is that we all know this is very difficult to accept and understand exactly whats happening. Chris, you were on this a few weeks ago raising the alarm bell, but for many people this felt like something very, very far away and what people have to understand is that the numbers you showed today in a couple weeks time will sadly look like the good ol days. The number of people all of these numbers are expected to double every three days and it doesnt take a long time for thousands to turn into tens of thousands and tens of thousands to turn to hundreds of thousands into millions and in densely populated cities in places where people are not respecting the fact that they need to be staying in, its going to create an on slot that will be impossible to handle and were about a dozen days behind italy, so any scene you see of a town in northern italy, you can pretty much expect something very close to that here in the u. S. This is a virus that none of us have immunity for. I dont care how good of shape youre in or how young you are and its a virus that spreads invisibly in the air. You can walk into a room that your grandmother walks into 20 minutes later and you could have possibly infected her. So you have to take seriously what we call the stayhome idea, which is if you have a lot of peoples lives in your hands, you dont know it but you do and thats where we are. This current phase is like we are in the midst of the battle and havent gotten there and use another metaphor, there is a weird feeling invoked by an italian physician, the moment between the lightning and thunder. There is a moment in italy where we knew it was coming and preparing or a day or two and they were prepared and nobody was there and it hit. Thats where we are right now and the only way we can get through this is lockdown and social distancing, right . Thats basically what we have. Thats the tool we currently have is mass mitigation, dramatically reducing human interaction, is that right . We blew it on containment where you are able to Contract Trace people and it got into the community and we didnt plan well enough sadly and look, we have to navigate from where we are, not from where we wish we were but from where we are today, absolutely this is more in our hands by staying home. Everybody has to do their part. The federal government needs to step up and operate much more like a machine thats supporting us. The governors are doing a great job. The mayors are all working but no one really can do it alone, and i think this is a huge role to play. Im 53 years old. I never lived through the greatest generation, the sacrifices people made during world war ii, and if my sacrifice is to stay home and spend time with my family, probably more of a sacrifice for them than me, this is and i dont mean to make light of the fact people are feeling Economic Hardship and anxiety but were all feeling it together. It a sacrifice we can make together and save a lot of lives. This will be over. The question is how many people and lives can we save . The will be over is the hard part for us. I spent all waking hours thinking about this and talking to people and talking to experts about it and i oscillate between doomsday and pinpricks of optimism and south korea is an optimistic case, they took a different approach with mass testing and singapore and taiwan. Epidemiologist tend towards a world view that is prepare for the worst and hope for the best, naturally and correctly in their line of work, but that maybe it wont be as bad as theyre projecting, right . This idea of half of california infected or a peak in august, i mean, that those are at the ex trtreme ends if we take the steps now, can we see light at the end of the tunnel in the next month or two . Does italy tell us about that . Yeah, look, i think, you know, i was quoted as saying we should be closer to panic than calm and what i mean by that is if you havent gone through that initial sleepless night that you just talked about, then youre not really getting whats going on. But after you do that, you start to come back. There is no reason to live in this panic phase and even though weve done a number of things wrong and you documented them at the top of the episode, there are strengths we have as a country that i think are going to make this look better than what an epidemiologist will see on a piece of paper. For example, every innovator, genius, Technology Person i know right now, this is a focussing moment for them. People are talking about different ways to invent different things, different therapies and i have no doubt that while we have weaknesses as a country, we have strengths and theyre unique strengths and so i wouldnt be surprised if things start appearing, these gym glimmers months out. If i were the president , i wouldnt lead a News Conference based on some hope someone told me about and i think what we should expect from him, he wants to be a wartime general, a wartime president , i should say, is decisive focus, sober worst case senatcenarie Case Scenario planning and if we were too pessimistic, that will be the most wonderful thing in the world. Plan for the worst, hope for the best and lets all hope that i look ridiculously panicked and over selling things in two months from now. I will as will you, will welcome any Video Montage of that. Thanks, chris. Joining me now, two people that know what were dealing with. Michael steele, former rnc chairman. Michelle, you wrote a great column in the New York Times where you said look i, get some impulse to say lets not talk about politics now we have a crisis but politics matter and holding the federal government and Trump Administration and donald trump accountable for the failures matters, why did you write that column . Because i think youre starting to hear not just from right wing hacks from some reasonable people says now is not the time to write backwards and point fingers and i understand the impulse. I think the problem is the political failure is not just the past, its on going. Its going on in the fact that the president gives these press conferences every day where he kind of lies and spreads misinformation and spreads false hopes like the fda approved drugs the fda has not approved. He basically tells people they shouldnt be as alarmed as in fact, they should. You see that reverberating throughout the country and just republicans telling pollsters theyre not that worried and not changing habits in the same way democrats are and then the other thing is just he has so far inexplicably he has invoked the defense production act which a number of congressman called on him to invoke this act from the korean war that allows the president to direct manufacturers to manufacture things for public safety, you know, we have this critical shortage of ventilators, masks, icu beds. He invoked it but wont use it. He wants it to be there in case there is a worstCase Scenario as if its not unfolding in front of us. It important for people to be vocal in criticism because that the the only thing this president responds to. He doesnt respond to calls for public sacrifice or to calls for the public good. He responds to kind of feeling aggrieved because hes getting a bad rap. To michelles point about this actual apriestble danger this causes with people taking this seriously and the whip saw effect of sort of these kind of big its like a sales job where like now i got your attention and what can i do to get you in the car and the car is a lemon. This is a line great from a bloomberg piece that said a hospital ship that cant get sail, a drug that cant get it, donald trump repeatedly over stated his governments accomplishments as he tries to calm americans and fight the spread of the coronavirus. What do you make of it . I think its a little bit less about calming americans and more about how the presidencys himself in this narrative. That was, i think, testified to today by the president s reaction to the press in the room with him. How personally he took it and just how angry he got because he was asked how will you console the American People . Would you say to them to make them less nervous and less concerned . And his response was thats an attack. Youre a bad reporter. So this idea, i think, to michelles point that this presidencys this virus, this n contagion, this epidemic is the root problem here and then you have the position with some republicans who are trying to sort of deal with the reality but also try to stay on the president s good side. He has two people standing behind him, watching dr. Fauci today, his head to his hand. Those are related and this is why its so important to focus on this. The president said i dont want my numbers to go up. The numbers will go down. Heage early, i dont want a lot of cases. The way to do that, dont test. I dont know how those connect but it does matter what the leader of a country says to the people underneath them. That message was sent and every single step of this revolved around the president s ego and narcissim as opposed to what is going on in the country. Well, you know, one of the people i talked to when i was writing my column is a john hopkins professor who teaches a class called policy failures and this is obviously going to go on the syllabus and one thing he said in these historic policy failures, only a certain number of decisions make it onto the president s desk, any president. So you always have to have a bureaucracy that is both confident and thats another way in which this president has already failed the country and rooting out professionals and replacing them, not replacing them at all or with hacks and you have people make their decisions based on the signals they get from the top. And so the person at the top is saying this not urgent, this is not a priority and i dont want to hear any bad news. If somebody like there was a cdc official who basically came out a few weeks ago and told us prepare for significant disruption in your life and the president was reportedly furious. There is a professional cost in telling the truth, in preparing the country. Yeah. And so of course, people respond Extraordinary People act anyway but respond to that. It struck me today as i watched the president and he seized on the possibility of this malaria drug being used for treatment and its not completely crazy. There is some initial and small and early results that maybe give it promise and god, i hope hospitals are running Clinical Trials and it works out. But its, you know, a power of positive thinking, selling other people and, believing and selling other people on your own b. S. Is a trait in a real else state developer but literally the worst trait in Public Health. It is you couldnt find a bigger personality and world view mismatch than that. Absolutely. In fact, i tweeted to that effect yesterday when the president had made another one of his statements of trying to, you know, make the American People feel good. Like, youre not trying to close the deal on my apartment. You know, this is about, you know, how do we solve this problem . Why dont we have the necessary equipment in place and the testing in place and these are fundamental issues that wont go away and i think the president doesnt really appreciate that they wont go away because the country is waiting for you to take the action and necessary steps to do something about it. Governors right now, chris, as you know with Governor Cuomo in new york and Governor Hogan in maryland are leading. For the president to look at them and go, well, you know, were not a supply shop. You guys are supposed to be doing this anyway, that the not how this works. You know, yes, they have to lead in their states but theyre also looking to the federal response to aid and assist and to make their efforts work to the betterment of the people and thats the piece of this again, that is a big part thats missing. Michelle goldberg and michael steele, thank you so much. Coming up, calls for the resignation of two republican senators that face accusations they used Information Private briefings about the pandemic for their own financial gain before things hit the fan. That story next. Ial gain before things hit the fan that story next. We would walk on the sidewalk all around the wind blows we would only hold on to let go blow a kiss into the sun we need someone to lean on blow a kiss into the sun all we needed somebody to lean on all we need is someone to lean on ladies, my friends and i are having a debate. I have a back rash. Alright. Whoa, mara. I laugh like this. [ laughs obnoxiously ] its just not my scene. I couldnt help but over do you like insurance . I love insurance. Did you know you can save money bundling home and auto with progressive, and renters can bundle, too . I know, right . [ laughs ] [ singing continues ] whyd you stop . I was listening. [ microphone feedback ] whyd you stop . I was listening. You work hard for your money. Stretched days for it. Juggled life for it. Took charge for it. So care for it. Look after it. Invest with the expertise of j. P. Morgan, either with an advisor or online, through chase. After all, its yours. Chase. Make more of whats yours. Trust us. Us kids are ready to take things into our own hands. Dont think so . Hold my pouch. And sometimes, you can find yourself heading in a new direction. But when youre with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. Tonight, calls across the political spectrum for the resignation of senators richard burr of North Carolina and kelly of georgia. They are facing strong acre s s accusations they themselves filed that one of the first things they did after they found out just how bad the coronavirus would be during closed door Senate Briefings was sell a huge amount of stock right before the market tanked. Both senators deny doing anything unethical. Im joined by Derrick Ellis revealing that senator burr dumped up to 1. 7 million in stock. Also with me tim mack and p. R. s washington investigative correspondent recovered audio of burr raising concern about it in february. Derrick, let me start with you and take me through basically these two senators and what they did and why they look suspicious. Sure, well the first thing is there is a timeline here, right . The senators when they make stock trades or trades are made on they are behalf, they have to file reports with the senate what those were. In this case, after that january 24th briefing for all senators about the coronavirus, in the weeks after days and weeks after that, weve had a couple different senators file reports of stock sales. In the case of senator burr, the reason that we wrote about his activity was just because it was so out of the ordinary for him in terms of his trading activity dating over the last year or so and with senator loeffler, we dont have a lot on her because shes a new senator senator burr was the Intelligence Committee about all sorts of security. The details that stick out are burr essentially sells a huge amount of stock which he hasnt done in previously years. Gets out of the market and doesnt buy a lot. Loeffler sells stuff that would tank and purchases things that seem like amazing luck to buy at that time. Tim, youre the one that reported on the fact that burr behind closed doors was really concerned about the severity of this. I want to play the audio you unearthed of him telling constituents how bad it could be. Take a listen. There is one thing i can tell you about this, it is much more aggressive than anything we have seen in recent listry. Its probably more akin to the 1918 pandemic. That was not the note necessarily he was striking in public. Thats right. In public he was saying the United States was better prepared than any other time in must his history because of legislation he helped author. Senator burr is an expert in Public Health and pandemic preparedness because hes been working on this issue for decades, almost 20 years. And the question is with this expertise and assessment, this very dark assessment of what was to come, why did he not share his assessment with the public . Now, you, the senator attacked you for your journalism. I didnt think he frankly landed any blows but then there was after your piece there was reporting on his stock sales. Have they gavin an explanation . Has senator burr given you or anyone an explanation for sales, tim . No, not for the sales themselves. They said they have not done anything wrong. They say that the sales were made based on public information, that is, news reports, c nbc news reports and not private information that it was obtained as part of his role as lawmaker or as the senate Intelligence Committee chairman but not a general explanation of how that squares with his telling the public about what his assessment was and how bad coronavirus would become. This gets to the law here, derri derrick, right . You can imagine a world senator burr is a person tuned into news about pandemics, right . Hes getting secret briefings, right . If he were, he was like a pandemic dude like this is going to be bad. Your first thought is to sell your stock and not to also go to the public and warn them like the question is can he do this legally . Is there legal liability under this legislation called the stock act which restricted how congress can sell stock . Does he have legal liability . So the question really is it depends, right . It depends on the context and obviously, in this situation, with what tim is reporting uncovered, that supplies additional context here. Its unclear in terms exactly what his light tliability could this is a situation the stock act was written to address, right . It enforces disclosure, p disclosure thats more timely so the public can see what people in congress are trading on information they know whether they get that from public sources or private sources. The Senate Ethics committee, the senator asked for a review by the Ethics Committee, they certainly can look into this. I think it will really be up to, you know, sort of the senator to provide information that he was aware of and then the Ethics Committee will make a determination on what actually the responsibility is on his part. I should note there is a few senators who sold stock in this period, dfeinstein and sunny purdue in georgia. All of whom i should note, i think are in a different category and have been persuaded or not quite as suspicious which is why we kept them out of the reporting until we get a further picture. The politics are terrible, tim for senator burr. Thom tillis from North Carolina, senator burr owes North Carolinaens an explanation, which is really quit a thing to say about your fellow senator. Well, senator burr is not running for reelection senator, tillis is and obviously has to react. There is a lot of bipartisan outrage over this issue of stock selling. If there was inside information on coronavirus being traded upon, there are folks on the left and right united to say hey, senator burr should resign or should at least explain how it is he came to make the sale. Derrick willis and tim mack, thank you both for being with me. As the pandemic rose, many Front Line Health Care workers cant find the necessary protective gear and are getting exposed. Well talk to an emergency room doctor how dire a situation were in coming up. E a situatio were in coming up life isnt a straight line. And sometimes, you can find yourself heading in a new direction. But when youre with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. And i dont count the wrinkles. But what i do count on is boost high protein. And now, introducing new boost women. With key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. All with great taste. New, boost women. Designed just for you. New, boost women. You met on an app. Why . Delete it. Hes the one. Gesundheit. [sneezes] i see something else. A star. With three points. Youre in a. Mercedes. Yeah, we wish. Wish granted. 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Shape your future. Start here at 2020census. Gov aurelia i was just frustrated i almost gave up. Company. With miracleear, its all about service. Theyre personable, theyre friendly. Im very happy with them. vo we provide you with a free lifetime of aftercare, meaning free checkups, cleanings and adjustments. wiley i see someone new. Someone happy. Its really made a difference. vo call 1800miracle to start your 30day riskfree trial and schedule your free hearing evaluation at your locally owned miracle ear today. phone ringing a phones offers big button,ecialized phones. And volumeenhanced phones. , get details on this state program. Call or visit and accessoriesphones for your mobile phone. Like this device to increase volume on your cell phone. phone ringing get details on this state program call or visit were living in a strange and terrifying world right now and if youre like me and im not proud to confess this but just compulsively watching the numbers, right . The numbers go up and up and up and those numbers of course, you can lose sight of for a moment each number represents a real human life. Ininevitabeviden inevitably lives. A friend was diagnosed and another and another and today the brutal news for all of us at nbc about the deaths of one of our colleagues due to c complications from coronavirus. Lar larry edgeworth. He was a skilled audio technici technician. Traveling the world covering stories. I got to work with larry a bunch, first covering the protest in ferguson and had grace and professionalism and he was tough, funny, kind, down right courageous and cool under pressure. And i have to say thats true of the nbc crew as a whole. Men and women ive had the great honor of working with. These are people that work in war zones and natural disasters with incredible pressure and tremendous confidence. Ive been in dicey situations where i depend on them, on larry totally. And those folks are still doing their work amidst this crisis. 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That the a matter of their safety and safety of Public Health. In wuhan china and italy large numbers of Health Care Workers contracted it with protective equipment and got sick and were not able to provide care. In short, if Health Care Workers get sick, enough of them get sick, the whole system can crash. This is precisely why Health Care Workers across the country are more orless jumpi lesles le down screaming were running ocho of protective equipment like masks, gowns and visors, the very things they need to provide care. This is not a fear. Were getting stories about workers getting infected including our next guest is an Emergency Room Physician that recently tested positive and debra, a registered nurse and president of National Nurses united. Let me start with you and ask how are you feeling and how did you find out you had gotten the virus . So i got tested, you know, i had symptoms and i knew i was a risk because i took care of patients that tested positive so i went and got tested just to make sure i was not going to take care of any more patients after i was positive and i was confirmed last night. So ive been home in quarantine still doing telemedicine. I feel good. Im lucky so far. I want to ask debra about what your concerns are for the folks in your union. I saw a protest outside a San Francisco hospital. I seen reporting like this one for instance on the shortage of respirator masks. They said they should be discarded after treating a patient. Many doctors are being given one to use indefinitely, spray it down with lysol or wipe it off not knowing if that will preserve it. Are you encountering situations like that . We are all over the country and in Sonoma County where i live. People in construction are donating their masks to nurses, dropping them off at nurses homes and its really alarming because we have been yelling about this for months and still, masks are under lock and key. And well get a manager to get them and reuse them. Now the cdc is saying if there arent masks, go ahead and make your own. Go to a craft store, whatever you think might filter out this virus and feel safe and good about working in the storm like that. Its really become crazy. You wouldnt send a firefighter into a burning building with a squirt gun to put out the fire and thats what were being asked to do here. Andrew coma said new york has a critical need for personal protective equipment, gloves, gowns, masks. If you can make any of these supplies new york is buying. I heard of labs, construction workers using them and donates them. Someone at the point of caring in an emergency room, why is it so important and whats the process for using the equipment when you got a place where a lot of people are coming infected, of usually as you know. Yeah, so the process is evolving as we learn more about the disease and see patients come in different volumes. So we know in the high risk area, like the icus and doing procedures at risk, we have layers of levels of equipment we use, full body protection, masks, gloves, double gloving, goggles. If were in an area that maybe isnt necessarily high risk, well use maybe goggles and masks and gloves. The issue is every time you use the equipment, youre supposed to change the equipment in theory. Its harder and harder to do that when you know were going into this weeks and months on end and its encouraging to see leadership like cuomo asking for resources early because well run out sooner rather than later and we need everybody to chip in. Debra, do you have clear c l communication from hospitals or state and Public Health officials or governors what is being done on this problem . It seems this is a problem everybody is going to face and you cant set localities and governors and hospitals to fight each other in a battle for a fixed supply. Thats the worst possible outcome and hoarding it will look like the toilet paper in the grocery store. You need federal coordination, is there any federal coordination . Thats what were ex dretrem concerned about. President trump signed the defense production act yet hes failed to implement it by demanding that corporations come up with better production lines or masks or ventilators for all the equipment. If you look at the other countries that are some of them less well off than we are, their protection for their Health Care Workers are far superior than ours and looks like theyre managing to be able to protect their Health Care Workers and right now, that is not happening. Weve had to even start a petition to the federal government to put protections in place and give us the equipment we need or we wont be there. Two questions, one is how are things in the emergency room you work in . Youre not physically there but in touch with colleagues as this pandemic has an epicenter in new york city, thats very clear. First and foremost so proud of the people i work with, where i work. Everyone is really putting all the patients first. They are trying so hard to take care of patients in an uncertain time when theyre putting their families on hold and going to work really with the care of the patients first. You know, we are now officially the epicenter of the country in new york and we are feeling it. Were seeing it on patients with our admissions. The governor is putting out every single day and were trying to rise to the challenge and i commend the hospitals in new york city for doing that but it is going to be a big list for us and its going to be a long haul. What about testing . I know this has been an issue for some folks and i want to ask you both this, not just personal protective equipment but you need testing for Health Care Workers. It seems so urgent that you cant have Health Care Workers who are positive caring for people, obviously, but you cant just protake them offline when need all hands on deck and Health Care Workers are having a hard time getting tested. I want to hear about what youre hearing. You first, dara. The truth is that we are doing the best with what we have and i think this shows a lack of forethought on the availability of testing from the outset. Knowing we have an escalating number of patients and exposed Health Care Workers, we need a higher magnitude of tests. Were testing every single day in new york city and not keeping up with the need, which includes Health Care Workers. So we are waiting days sometimes from the onset of symptoms to be tested because there arent enough tests for anybody. Debra, what are your members finding . Well, thats the problem is that nurse s are being asked to work if they are asymptomatic if they know theyve been exposed to the virus. They are asked to monitor themselves and still show up for work so were really concerned because we know that there are cases of the covid virus that have been passed along even though they are asymptomatic. Its a huge concern for us. We need universal Health Care Worker testing fast now. Yesterday. A week ago. Two weeks ago. Thank you both for making time tonight. Thank you. Coming up, form e senior oc official disbanded, demoted by President Trump joins me next. Iy pridesent trump joins me next. E official disbanded, demoted by President Trump joins me next. R official disbanded, demoted by President Trump joins me next. By President Trump joins me next. Where can a healthier heart lead you . For people with Heart Failure taking entresto, it may lead to a world of possibilities. 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About two years ago, a Senior Health official from that team attended a Conference Marking the 100th anniversary of the 1918 pandemic flu. One of the deadliest pandemics in World History that took the lives of at least 50 million people. Here is what she said in that conference back in may of 2018. Are we ready to response to a pandemic . I feel the answer is no. The threat of pandemic flu is our Number One Health acuity concern. We know that it cannot be stopped at the border. And we also know that we do not close borders to control flu pandemic. It just doesnt work. Within days of that conference, the Trump Administration dismantled the nscs Pandemic Team. Joining me is that senior official who sounded that alarm, former chief scientist at the fda. Doctor, first, i want to talk about the lessons that were learned in battling epidemics in the Obama Administration that led to the creation of the sort of unit you were working in. What was the idea behind that . Sure, good evening. So the idea of the unit was to help coordinate all of the Assets Available in the u. S. Government so that there could be a kprer comprehensive preparedness policy stance as well as to facilitate a response in a Public Health emergency. That was the idea of the detector directorate, and focus on bio medical securities, and a very dedicated response. In a bureaucratic sense, it may seem too granular or small ball but from the white house, where things sit in the Organization Chart are a reflection of the organization and they matter, having that directorate created some sort of institutional focus in terms of how an administration would respond. Chris, you know, that may be true, but its true also that the nsc, the leadership at the time, thought it was important to streamline, sometimes streamlining creates efficiencies, and they had their own reasons for streamlining, and what i can say, that there was a reorganization, and the portfolio that i managed at the time was fully supported by the nsc leadership at the time. But the work continued throughout my tenure there. What are the lessons here . I mean what should the government be doing to prepare . When you said, i fear were not prepared, back in 2018, why were you saying that . Thats right. So it doesnt really depend on any single directorate but its about sound policy, its about resource program, its about learning from lessons from prior experience, and continuing to optimize the solution set, some solutions that may have worked ten years ago, that were necessary back then, may need to be revisited. So we really need to be a very dynamic process. And i think what is the most important thing today is to first of all, look forward, we have a long path ahead of us, this is a very serious crisis, its going to be protracted, its very stressful for most people, but you know, americans need to realize today that each one of us is Public Health, the actions that we take as individuals within our family and in our communities, to limit the spread of this disease, is going to be the most important action that Public Health can take, to break the chain. Its not going to be sufficient, these are temporary measures but today, this week, next week, we are Public Health. The second thing i think go ahead. Please. I would just say it is really critical to realize that there are hundreds of career Government Employees that are working around the clock, i have worked with so many throughout my career, very dedicated, incredibly experienced, and incredibly smart, and most of them most of the response is going to happen at that level, and most people dont realize, for example that there is already a very incredible effort to evaluate treatment for coronavirus. There are about 40, 30 or 40 now, Academic Medical Centers that are already conducting a randomized controlled center that was launched by the nih. There again, about 30 or 40 patients are already enrolled. So these types of efforts are not necessarily happening on the headlines, but theyre already under way, and its really my hope that sooner rather than later, well identify potential cures, and later have a vaccine that can help counter this pandemic. I want to ask you a little more detail on the defense production act which is not legislation thats in the news every day, and a lot of people probably learned about it in the last week. What, is it something that you studied in your preparedness, when you thought about this . And what can it actually do . Thats an interesting question. Theres a theory that allows the u. S. Government, it gives the u. S. Government a lot of latitude to manage the production of vital resources. Its not my area of expertise, but my impression right now, is that the private sector has responded, and is responding, and taking this very seriously. As far as im aware, there is unprecedented number, for example, of Companies Developing vaccines and therapies, engaging in diagnostic development, manufacturers of first aid equipment, ramping up production capacity, so i would like to see whether the dpa would augment those efforts, but its my impression that the private sector is reacting appropriately. What do you think the biggest lesson, the biggest change for us, in the way we think about this threat will be . Well, its we need to completely look at how we are managing diagnostic testing and development for the future. The situation were in today, were still relying on highly complex laboratories that sometimes we have to send our tests, its unnecessary given the technology that is at our disposal in the 21st century. I think we need to leverage more technology that can support Public Health, contact tracing, isolation, we need to also leverage the power of the American People, where it is up to us to be able to counter this. The most valuable source. Dr. Luciana borio thanks for joining us. Thats it for all in. The Rachel Maddow is next. Rachel . You are doing a fantastic job covering this story and it is an honor to go after you these nights. Thank you. Lets jump right in. The headline, the front page of the New York Times right now, coronavirus in new york, deluge of cases