Thank you. Weve got a big show tonight. Weve got Steve Schmidt making his triumphant msnbc return and were going to get caught up in what happened in the ukraine scandal. Theres two other stories ive been looking at. The one has been getting a ton of coverage. The other not as much. Theyre two different stories and theyre being reported as different stories. Theyre in different parts of the newspaper, different articles about them and i think they might be one story. The first story is one weve all been watching jaw agape with horror. And that is what the president of the United States did two weeks ago and he green lit a call with the turkish strongman recep tayyip erdogan, paved the way for ethnic cleansing and horrific human rights abuses against the kurds. Risking isis reconstituting itself. It goes against years of blood and toil by both kurdish fighters and american fighters fighting side by side, and that all happened after one phone call. Where donald trump completely and totally capitulated to erdogans interest. To the shock, surprise and horror of essentially the entire United States government. From the state department to the department of defense to the troops on the ground who had to retreat so fast they left their mess halls intact. And then we had to bomb our own base in syria to stop it from falling into enemy hands. The president has tried to save face on this. He said a million different wild and contradictory things about his rash and inexplicable decision. And the white house released a rambling and childish letter that the president wrote, definitely was the president who wrote it. Definitely the president wrote it. Not ghost written. The president wrote to turkeys president erdogan and it ends with the american president telling the turkish president , quote, dont be a tough guy, dont be a fool, i will call you later. And he sent mike pompeo, secretary of state and Vice President mike pence to cut a deal after the whole thing already happened. The deal essentially gives erdogan everything he wants. He gets to, and i want to be clear about this, gets to ethnically cleanse northeast syria of kurds. Not just the kurdish fighter, all of the kurdish civilians. He views them as a huge threat. This is what he wanted to do. But in fact this whole story is a story about giving erdogan everything he wants at the tremendous cost of the lives of the people at the ground and the american interests. So were helping turkey advance its project of of ethnically cleansing the area of the kurds, and President Trump himself referred himself to the turkish plan as cleaning it out. You have a 22mile strip that for many, many years turkey in all fairness theyve had a legitimate problem with it. They had terrorists, a lot of people in there they kpt have, and they suffered loss of lives also and they had to have it cleaned out. Had to have it cleaned out. That is the one story. That is story thats dominating a lot of the politics and coverage. Everyone is watching and thinking why did this happen, right . 354 people in the house condemned trumps decision, that includes 129 republicans. Most or much of the senate has criticized it. Huge bipartisan consensus its terrible across the ideological spectrum. Not just the partisan spectrum, why did he do this . Why did trump do this . That is one story. And then over here theres another story that the president s trusted associate bagman, buddy, attorney, personal adviser, buddy, Rudy Giuliani, maybe has been working off the books on behalf of the turkish government. So im going to explain that in a second, but actually based on your reaction maybe, maybe story one and story two are not two stories, they are connect to each other. Because story two is about the same guy, lets remember who we know was running the off the books ukraine policy, right . The same guy who has his fingers in American Foreign policy despite the fact he has no standing to do so. The guy at the center of the ukraine scandal was, it turns out, working another angle. And that angle was to personally lobby for literally the top two priorities of turkeys president erdogan in the United States. Erdogan has two specific things he desperately badly wants out of the u. S. , okay . Hes got a very connected gold trader who is part of a vast Money Laundering scheme to bypass sanctions against iran. A turkish man connected to erdogan. That guy is being prosecuted by the Southern District of new york. And the president of turkey does not want that and wants him let go. So youve got your gold trader and then youve got your cleric. The clerics name is the leader of a religious movement thats very, very popular in turkey, a outspoken erdogan critic. And erdogan absolutely hates this guy because hes convinced he fomented a coup against him. New he happens to live in the United States in the poconos of all places in the mountains in pennsylvania, and he lives as a legal permanent resident which is random. Erdogan wants him extradited back, okay . So those are the two things that erdogan wants from the u. S. Government, the two things he arguably cares most about in terms of specific internal u. S. Matters. Those are also the two things that giuliani we now know was personally repeatedly lobbying the president about. Giuliani was that gold traders lawyer, okay . He represented him. And back in 2017 giuliani traveled to turkey and held a secret meeting with erdogan to basically figure a way out for turkey to further aid which is weird because plea bargaining is usually a thing that happens between defense lawyers and prosecutors in the United States, not with a foreign head of state in a foreign country. So thats one of the issues erdogan wants in the u. S. That giuliani was working on. Heres the other. We learned just this week, okay, that giuliani privately urged the president , President Trump, to extradite that turkish cleric multiple times. So much so one official described it as giulianis hobbyhorse. It was the thing he kept bringing up in white house meetings. And it got so bad and frequent white house officials event went and checked lobby records to make sure giuliani was required to lobby. And he was not. If this sounds familiar its because you have. Donald trumps First National security advisor remember that guy, Michael Flynn, lock her up Michael Flynn . Okay, Michael Flynn wrote the most insane oped on election day, youll never guess, 2016, the same turkish cleric. This is election day, the day people go to it polls. He did want write an oped that says hey go vote for trump, he didnt say were going to make america great. He write an oped saying weve got to get this cleric out of the poconos and back to turkey. This is the title of the election day oped. Our ally turkey is in crisis and needs our support. What do we later find out . We later find out Michael Flynn was paid half a Million Dollars to lobby for the turkish government. Hes currently awaiting sentencing in december. He could be going to prison for lying about this. Which brings us back to that crazy letter, that very, very, very crazy letter. The one donald trump sent to erdogan last week. For all of its weirdness and childish tone there was one line in that letter that stands out more than ever. Here it is. I have worked hard to solve some of your problems. Hmm, what problems has donald trump worked hard to serve for turkey . It has a certain ring to it knowing what we know know about who donald trump tasked with his Foreign Policy, not the secretary of state but his bag man Rudy Giuliani. And maybe these two stories, donald trump getting rolled by turkish strong man erdogan and letting him invade northeast syria to ethnically cleanse kurds and Rudy Giuliani basically lobbying on behalf of the turkish government, starting to feel like maybe those two stories are maybe one story. Where the policy of caving to erdogan, all trump Foreign Policy fundamentally now appears suspicious and corrupt. That perhaps it itself is the act of corruption. And coming off a week deposition after deposition on the impeachment tail, it makes you wonder maybe ukraine was this incident where the president was using Rudy Giuliani and apuce of American Power purely for his own interests. Or maybe ukraine is an example of a thing hes been doing a lot in a lot of places with Rudy Giuliani. And if its the latter, maybe you might want an impeachment inquiry that looks into all of it. One of the people in the leadership of the Democratic Party is with me here tonight, the chairman of the house of the democratic congress, congressman Hakeem Jeffries of new york. How are you, congressman . Good to have you. Lets start on that point about the scope. You know, someone said something the other day. Said its like when you shake the tree all these crimes fall out. Why would you stop shaking the tree and keep the inquiry limited to the scope of ukraine . It is important to shake the tree. What weve seen basically is that the Trump Administration has been characterized by five things, chaos, crisis, confusion, corruption and criminal activity. And we are going to you didnt just do that on the spot. I did. No, you didnt were going to follow the facts, apply the law, and uncover and present the truth to the American People. But thats not a response to the question. Right now theres an inquiry whose scope conducted by chairman schiff pursuant to the impeachment inquiry covers the ukraine matter and only the ukraine matter. Am i misunderstanding that . To clarify the focus will remain on the trump ukraine scandal as we know it because theres evidence of wrongdoing thats hiding in plain sight. And what you have is that the president pressured a foreign leader to target an american citizen for political gain and then withheld at the same time 391 million in aid to a very vulnerable country that had been authorized on a bipartisan basis. That is textbook abuse of power, undermines our National Security and the president betrayed his oath of office. And so the Intel Committee led by adam schiff whos doing a phenomenal job will continue to unwind that thread. But Speaker Police has said were operating under an impeachment umbrella. So theres a total of six committees. The Foreign Affairs committee is involved, the Oversight Committee is involved, the ways and Means Committee is involve, the Financial Services committee involved and also the Judiciary Committee involved as well. Theres also one other aspect that pertains to Rudy Giuliani, theres a criminal investigation out of the Southern District of new york in which two of Rudy Giulianis associates, men represented pie their own lawyers as being part of President Trump ps legal team are being indicted in federal court. Thats another variable in this. Thats another variable but its part of the same narrative in terms of wrongdoing thats been unleashed on the country by President Trump. Rudy giuliani, failed mayor, failed president ial candidate, failed lawyer on his way to being a convicted felon. Do you really mean that . In all seriousness, do you think he has criminal exposure right now in. Absolutely for the reasons you laid out that he was illegally lobbying on behalf of the turkish government. Heres the key. The rough transcript of the july 25th phone call makes clear that Rudolf Giuliani certainly in the context of the ukraine scandal was operating explicitly at the direction of donald trump who made it clear to the ukrainian president that he was to follow up with his personal lawyer whos not a diplomat, hes not a member of the state department, the diplomatic core or an ambassador. He was a political dog operating on behalf of donald trump to solicit foreign interference in the 2020 election. Thats outrageous. Yesterday Mick Mulvaney came out and admitted it. And i think he in his defense i think he got confused because they alternate between we did want do it and we did it, its fine. And he forgot which day it was in terms of the messaging. But i saw jim jordan say it doesnt change anything for me. Do you feel your republican colleagues on the house side, congressman rooney, now a republican saying hes open to the impeachment inquiry. Is there a set of facts or is there no set of facts that would sway them . You have some members on the republican side part of what i refer to as the coverup caucus. And they are simply its unfortunate. Theyre not interested in upholding their oath of office. Theyre interested in covering up wrongdoing by trump. Hopefully there are others who take seriously the fact that we are in congress not to put party first but to put country first. And thats what we should how do you ive seen a lot of reporting on the time line here and there was a lot of reporting about aides and people in leadership like yourself thinking to move quickly and strike while the iron is hot because the facts are quite damning and theyre out in front of the public. And you have polls showing as many as 55 , 54 favor impeachment itself. How do you think about the time line and balance that with what we talked about earlier, getting to the bottom of that . What the speaker said earlier, were going to proceed expeditiously which i interpreted as potentially something is done prior to the end of the year as it relates to the recommendations that the six committees led by the Intel Committee will make to the Judiciary Committee as it relates to potential articles of impeachment. One thing about the mulvaney reveal, that was a straight up confession. Yes. Of what took place. That is the correct word. Appreciate your affirmation. But, listen, were going to undertake a serious and solemn investigation as it relates to unraveling what has occurred and presenting the truth to the American People. I wanted to offer my condolences for the loss of your remarkable colleague Elijah Cummings who passed away yesterday. He obviously has had an incredible career long before donald trump ever ran for office put also has been crucial as part of the Oversight Committee. How are you and your colleagues dealing with that loss . Well, it was a very tough day on the hill. He was an incredible statesman, an incredible man, an incredible public servant. And he would consistently encourage us to defend our democracy, stand up for the constitution, make sure that we present the truth to the American People consist with our solemn obligations as members of the house of representatives, and his integrity and stach yr in life and his legacy will continue to inspire us to finish the job that he was such an important part of starting. Congressman hakeem jeffreys, thank you very much. I appreciate it. If you are having trouble following everything thats happening with the ukraine scandal, its actually a lot less complicated than you think. But its also far more damning. Were going to talk about that next. Cut. 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[narrator] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself. Now available in our new uplight model. Here, hello starts with hi mple. How can i help . A data plan for everyone. Everyone . Everyone. Lets send to everyone [ camera clicking ] wifi up there . Ahhh. Sure, why not . Howd he get out . a camera might figure it out. That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. The ukraine story is not some mystery where you have to read the whole book to find out who done it. We found out who done it. And the rest of the story is being told in flashback as we reflect how we got to this point. Its hard to keep all the facts straight. To go through what we learned this week im joined by a pair of great reporters who have covered this story doggedly day in and day out. Josh letterman, and natasha bertram. Josh, let me start with you. We had a bunch of people testify this week and just a little bit of breaking news now about one of the individuals who testified, a state Department Official george kent about the fact that Rudy Giuliani lobbied the state department to grant a visa to the very same corrupt ukrainian prosecutor that biden pushed to oust, is that right . Thats right, chris. There have been some rumors going around washington for several days about this. And aerocolleagues at cnn have locked down this story tonight. And what theyre reporting is that back in january Rudy Giuliani pushed the state department to give a visa to this former prosecutor who could come to the United States to give to Rudy Giuliani what giuliani thought would be dirt basically about joe biden and about the president s political opponents. Now, this is the prosecutor that joe biden back when he was the sitting vp had try today get the ukrainians to get rid of because he didnt think he was pursuing corruption enough. And Rudy Giuliani wanted to speak with him, tried to get the state department to give him a visa. And then when the state department declined according to cnns reporting, giuliani went to the white house, tried to get the white house to overrule the state department. Now, they didnt give him a visa, but why is this important . Because this is fresh example completely separate from the whole issue about the quid pro quo and linking aid to assistance. Where Rudy Giuliani, the president s personal lawyer given this ukraine portfolio was pushing the u. S. Government to take a position, to actually do something concrete in furtherance of the president s own domestic political goals. And that, natasha, has been the thru line for all of tis. There was a bunch of testimony this week, one person from the white house, what was your sort of big take away about what we learned this week . Two things. The first is that the state department is obviously getting its kind of revenge now, right . Theyre having their opportunity to speak out finally and explain all of the misery and the chaos that theyve been through over the last two years particularly over the last obviously eight or nine months with regard to the ukraine story. The second one, though, and one i think is more important is them raising alarms about a foreign influence operation taking place yet again on american soil targeting the 2020 election. Its been a very clear thru line here is that people connected to the russians. We know about a ukrainian oligarch who is very connected to putin, very connected to the former ukrainian president who is very connected to putin has hired two of President Trumps closest allies and people he considered to be his lawyers during the russia probe in order to dig up dirt on joe biden and relay it pack to giuliani and to the white house so it can be used against him. Its like a repeat of 2016 all over again. The only difference is you have these russian connected ukrainian men acting in order to undermine the president s top opponent. And so i think with state Department Officials now and even i think what jim mattis, the former secretary of defense who finally came out yesterday and showed himself to have a little bit of kind of spine about all this when he made a joke about bone spurs and kind of dug at trump a bit, theyre feeling a little more comfortable pushing back now because they see the president in a very weakened position. The fact all these people showed up, gave their testimony. The state department told them not to show. They were given subpoenas and they showed up anyway. Josh, you had some great reporting on some of it testimony we got at the beginning of the week from a John Bolton Deputy who worked at the nfc that i think with some of the damning stuff we heard all week. She told the Committee John bolton was so upset by all these freelancing on ukraine he referred to it as a drug deal, but fiona hill also testified about just an extraordinary incident that took place in july that kind of crystallizes this whole thing, where this was this meeting with two visiting senior ukrainian officials where bolton was saying, look, were not yet ready to commit to granting president zelensky a white house visit. And ambassador sondland the ambassador to the eu, interjects and says actually as a matter of fact trump is ready to do that if you guys will open up this investigation. Bolton then abruptly ends the meeting, but it doesnt end there because sondland then escorts these two visiting ukrainians to the basement of a white house for a private followup when bolton says fiona hill to hear whats going on, she hears them discussing ba burisma, the National Gas Company that biden was in support of. She takes him down to the basement to talk about the condition being an investigation into the bidens. Exactly. And it was the immediate after fiona hill at the boltons direction went to report what they knew and was completely unacceptable. There was a big witness being called i believe next week if we have the manifest for that bill taylor who currently runs the operation in the embassy in kiev and famously wrote the text, i think its crazy to with hold funding for help with a political campaign. Were going to hear from him next week, is that right . Yeah, so hes scheduled for a deposition with House Democratic staffers on tuesday. And he of course is the one who was raising alarms internally about this kind of shadow Foreign Policy that giuliani and sondland were conducting along with of course the special envoy kirk volker. He decided very wisely i think most experts would say to put in writing the fact he was aware that this was this withdrawal of aid was linked to the president s political objectives. I think people are going to want to especially on the hill want to draw out of him a bit more what he knew about the connection to the aid and the political side of things and also whether he learned anything about what sondland told the president on that phone call. Because sondland wrote this very lawyered response back to bill taylor when he writes alarms about this saying no quid pro quo. I think also theyre going to want to know more about what happened internally at the state department and at the embassy in kiev and what more bill taylor can say about this operation. Hes going to be a very valuable witness. Thank you both very much. That was great. Okay, in all of history what do you think was the most brazenly corrupt thing a u. S. President has ever done . Well, you might have to go all the way back to yesterday afternoon. The great Stephanie Ruhle next. These days, were all stressed. honk i hear you sister. Thats why im partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual checkup, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel physically and emotionally. But now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. Just find a period of time to unwind. A location to destress. An activity to enjoy. Or the name of someone to talk to. To create a plan that works for you, visit cigna. Com mystressplan. Cigna. Together, all the way. When you take align, you have the support of a probiotic and the gastroenterologists who developed it. Align naturally helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets, 24 7. So, where you go, the pro goes. Go with align, the pros in digestive health. To take care of yourself. But natures bounty has innovative ways to help you maintain balance and help keep you active and wellrested. 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Its the kind of thing that almost every Corruption Case throughout history around the world in every town in america revolves around. Thats what tamny hall was all about. When you think corruption, thats it. Its the most iconic corruption that exists. You award government contracts to your cronies, friends, maybe cut outs, you take some off the top. This guy did one even better. He awarded a government contract to himself. I mean its the most comicable corruption crime you can imagine. As people argue over is this a technical violation of the emoluments clause dont overthink it. People go to jail in america all the time for this kind of thing. I want to bring in someone who hasnt hesitated to point out corruption when she sees it and has been covering this story, msnbcs Stephanie Ruhle. Can i just congratulate you . Yes. I think we should tell your audience whos watching that you machine or your friends, you have a real audience. Theyre real humans. So youve been doing some reporting on this and one of the things to start out with is just how big how many rooms is this . How many nights is it, what is the scale of what were talking about . Lets just think about this. I spoke to one former Administration Official whos been involved in planning these types of events and he said to me dont think that this is just a week or two, everyone converging on the resort and there for the summit. This will be 50 to 100 nights of advance teams, logistics teams from all of these countries preparing for this big event. All of them staying at the trump resort. So for Mick Mulvaney to say were doing this at cost, the president wont be making any money, thats just factually incorrect. Well, the president again reiterated this idea of it doesnt make it any better but what does at cost even mean . Thats exactly it. What does at cost mean . This is the month of june. So i ask you who is going to golf resorts in miami, florida, in the month of june . No one. So the costs are actually sunk. The trumps have already spent the money to keep the resort off. Those costs are sunk. So anything that they are paid so even if they say were going to give you a deal which we dont know that to be the case, theyre going to make money. So theyd normally be losing a ton of money in june, and now theyll be losing less money because itll be at full occupancy. And remember this is a resort with only two president ial suites. Do you mean to tell me a whole bunch of World Leaders are going to be staying in a standard room with two double beds and one shower . Shinzo abe bunked up with it was so funny yesterday, theyre doing this corrupt thing and mulvaney comes out, but he has to go we looked high, east, and this rig ma roll, we looked west, we looked everywhere and the only place we could do it was south florida in june at the president s facility. Theres nothing about it that even has a plausible cover story. World leaders and an infinite number of mosquitos in the most humid weather in june. But remember Mick Mulvaney is pulling a classic move from the trump play book, lets distract everyone so this whole room and every journalist can set their hair on fire and say corrupt, corrupt, emoluments. We can cover this and talk about this is unjust and corrupt, but that doesnt distract anyone from covering ukraine and the impeachment inquiry. And in some ways its all the same story because the question is is it the american interests being pursued or Donald Trumps person interests ive ever seen and ive covered, i was like a beat reporter in chicago which is just a factory of corruption, right . Illinois and chicago, if you cover some small town mayor whose Brothers Construction company he was taking contracts to a prosecutor would indict him and send him to jail. Ray nagin, rod blagojevich, theyre all in prison. These people are all in prison for doing this. Well, he might get pardoned. For now. But just think about how much is going to go into the resort and whos going to pay for it. So even if Mick Mulvaney is being evasive about preparations and what gets done with the resort, who do you think is going to pay the taxpayers . Heres an example. Youre going to have to renovate the resort to an extent. But you have to do things to prepare for all these visitors. Security. You have to add entire buildings for security. But think about for example, helipads. Youre going to have to add one to two helipads for these people to come in. Where are they going to do that . The golf course. When the summer is over, theres no need for the helipads. So what happens . The u. S. Government has to get rid of the helipads. What does that do . Wait for it. New brand new renovations and repairs of the golf course, paid for by the taxpayers. That is such a great point. All the up grades for security that have to be unmade or reconstituted afterwards you plausibly bill to the government and there you go, youve now paid for a renovation of your property off the government dime. And i think thats important. Theyre going to say, listen, of course we have to make these adjust wants for security. Its after the fact. Do you mean to think when they get rid of the helipads theyre going to throw some sod down, of course not. And golf courses cost tens of millions of dollars to upgrade. And you mentioned this golf resort is in disrepair, and i havent even mentioned bedbugs. Maybe they can make sure that is you could put bedbugs aside. I mean just walk through for Mick Mulvaney it was another Hotel Developer who called me this morning who said stop it. This is wordsmithing at best, flat out lying at worst. To say were doing this at cost when there would be ghosts in a hotel in june. Thats a boondoggle. Stephanie ruhle, thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Do not go anywhere. Steve schmidt, the one and only makes his return to msnbc, and that is next. [ orchestral music playing ] mom youve got to get yourself a new car. I wish i could save faster. Youre making good choices. Youll get there. Were you going to tell me about this . I know i cant afford to go. I still have this car so you can afford to go. I am so proud of you. Thanks. Principal. We can help you plan for that. Start today at principal. Com. Man 1 vo proof of less joint pain woman 1 oc this is my body of proof. And clearer skin. Man 2 vo proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis. Woman 2 vo . With humira. Woman 3 vo humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. Its proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. Humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. Avo humira can lower your ability to fight infections. 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If you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25 off that stay. Expect better. Expect hilton. Great riches will find you when Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Wow. Thanks, zoltar. How can i ever repay you . Maybe you could free zoltar . Thanks, lady. Taxi only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Driven by the standards of the trump era i think this week has been particularly insane. Its been an insane week, an insane eight months. And one person weve not heard from this entire time is Steve Schmidt, a lifelong republican, political operative, he became an outspoken never trumper, msnbc republican if you will. Hes been gone for around eight months for some reasons you might know, some he might not. But hes back here tonight. Please welcome Steve Schmidt. Great to see you. Have a seat. Its great to have you back. Great to be back. You were working for howard schultz. Was. The starbucks ceo that toyed with iran. Yep. How was that . He, as you know, thought about being a candidate for president. He took a look and decided dont want to be a candidate for president so im delighted to be back. Thats what youve got to say about that . I do, yeah. What has it been like to take a step back from the news because i imagine you consume it, to watch the arc of the news but not to be as intimately involved in commenting on it . I think it gives you a bit different perspective in that youre not talking about it three, times, four times a day having tweeted in nine or ten months. So its healthy in some level just to step back from all of it. Part of i think living the democracy is freedom from from the leader, the ubiquity of a president constantly in your face. This is not something you see in normal democracies. We ought to have freedom from our politicians. They shouldnt be the central figures in our lives. In the all consuming and deeply worrying matter that they are. Its a good point. I mean, there are many ways i think to a core and visceral level he really does have much defection for strong men but actually likes that system and has in some ways oriented our political culture around that vision. I think one of the things there was a trilogy of fdr books that was completed by and im blanking on the authors name, but he talked about the fact that fdr as he was architecting the world we live in today his ambition wasnt this new world order, wasnt that it would last forever. He only wanted it to last as long as every person who was alive on the day the war ended was still alive. So its had a good run. So you see this week in stark ways the retreat decline of american influence in the world. You see the ability of the chinese culturally to impose silence on some of our most famous athletes, some of our most outspoken citizens. We see the filling of the middle east with russian influence as opposed to american. We see americas adversaries with license to move. We see chaos in the world. And so weve entered this consequences stage of the trump presidency. And i think when we look at it, we should take very seriously what the former head of the u. S. Special Operations Command admiral William Mcraven said. And hes not an indeliberate man. He said the republic is under attack from within by the president. Were moving into a very, very serious time in this country now. I want to talk about you just mentioned whats going on in syria, and i wanted to talk to you about that. Theres two things. One, its really interesting to me to watch republicans react to this. Lindsey graham in particular but a lot of them because i i think to myself this is a travesty and horrible but this is the thing . This is the thing. It wasnt the kids in cages, selling out american interests a million other ways or corruption, this is the thing. And i almost cant model the ideological vision that makes this the breaking point. But i feel like you have a better sense of it. Well, its fascinating the disassociation you see playing out as if the silence and acquiescence to the nonstop lying, to the corruption, to the incompetence, that none of that accumulated to this moment as if they have no responsibility for it. So he will have been elected three years ago. Hes been president for a substantial period of time. And his behavior is getting worse because of the license that hes been given by members of the congress who are who are members of a coequal branch of government who have subordinated these institutions to the strongman president who is admiral mcraven correctly and appropriately said is a real threat to the republic. There was some talk of there was a bipartisan vote in the house condemning the syria policy. There might be one in the senate. I guess i wonder does it matter more than this issue, right . Theres some line of argumentation that you can see republican senators start to get freaked durability of the countrys interests being vouchsafed by the man in charge of it. That might make them more open or willing to break with trump on other things. Do you think that is true . We havent seen it so far. This is this is the first instance. Because the incompetence of the decision and the consequences of that decision. We have hundreds of isis fighters have escaped from prison. Theyre not going to go to community college. No. What theyre going to do is theyre going to kill people. Theyll kill people in western capitals. We see a Foreign Policy disaster, really, of unprecedented dimensions. The consequences of that disaster will be felt for years. We dont know whats going to happen. We dont know how any of this will play out. Other than to say that trump has unleashed vast quantities of human suffering. He has destabilized the most destabilized region in the world. He has harmed, deeply, the National Security interests of this country. I want to sort of play devils advocate for a moment on this. I actually believe in the def s levelleve advocate. I imagine a future that a democratic president , even republican president , withdraws from afterstan begaghanistan. We cant be there forever. It is the longest war in the republic. The forms of argumentation here, i fear theyll be used there. We fought alongside the afghan fighters. Were unleashing hell. The taliban will rush back in. I worry about the same arguments being used then and stopping and promoting a war going on essentially forever. I think one thing is certainly likely to be true, is that before the next president ial election, we will see the First American sailor, soldier, marine, airmen, born after 9 11 killed in action somewhere in the global war on terror that days events brought. So the idea that we should be a permanent force for 20, 30, 40, 50 years in afghanistan, i profoundly disagree with. The idea that we can turn afghanistan into a jeffersonian democracy has always been a fools errand. That said, how we get out has to be its the how part. With care, with thought and, frankly, a lot greater thought than how we entered into some of these countries. I think the how is a great point. Thats i think part of what has United People so much about this is how insane the how was. I mean, i remember that sunday night. All of a sudden, twitter lights up, and it is like, wait, the white house put a statement on what . Theyre doing what . Theres a sense in you said this before which hes getting worse. Ive seen people say since he came down the escalator. I felt the doral decision felt like some kind of a break. It is so egregious. It is indefensible, right . How do you understand what he did yesterday . Its just extraordinary. I mean, theyre like pigs feeding at the public trough. This is what the emolument clause in the constitution directly speaks to. It is what it is there for. It is completely, utterly, undebatably, indisputably unconstitutional. It is an extraordinary level of corruption. And the brazenness of it is really, at some level, you teeter between being outraged and sitting back and laughing. When Mick Mulvaney goes out, he says, absolutely, it is the best place of all the places. Its the best one. In all the land. Doral. There is also a sense in which, you know, there were all these stories in the beginning that i found maddening, which clear we was coming from folks in the administration. We have got this. This famous oped, were the guardrails, dont worry. I found them annoying and selfserving. That being said, it does seem to be the case that there are fewer internal guardrails now. There were more people before who, for whatever reason, could distract him or push him off stuff than there are now. Thats why youre getting the doral decisions. Youre getting the insane reality show stunt he tried to pull with the grieving parents whose child was killed. I thought the News Conference in ankara with the Vice President , it was like an apprentice episode, trying to please mr. Trump, right, on the charitable candy sales. And the sycophantne neslevel ar him is a new place. This is a level of corruption thats so deep, particularly with ukraine. Well start to see, i think as facts come out, there is more nervousness on the republican side than there has been before. Steve schmidt, it is great to have you back. Good to be back. Thank you once again. Thank you for coming here tonight. Dont go anywhere. Rachel maddow is coming up next. Motor . Nope. Not motor . Its pronounced motaur. For those who were born to ride, theres progressive. When you take align, you have the support of a probiotic and the gastroenterologists who developed it. Align naturally helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets, 24 7. So, where you go, the pro goes. Go with align, the pros in digestive health. From the start, the cclass was ahead of its time. Still, we never stopped making it stronger. Faster. Smarter. Because to be the best, is to never ever stop making it better. The 2020 cclass family. Lease the c 300 sedan for just 419 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Thank you, again, for being here tonight. Well be back november for more shows here in studio 6a. Keep an eye out for details on how you can join us in this lovely audience. Dont forget, if you live in los angeles, you can come to a special live recording of our podcast, why is this happening, this monday. October 21st. Ill interview two people i admire. Director and screen writer adam mckay, and author omar akkad. There are still tickets left. Im looking forward to it. Big news, we have details for the third stop of our tour, chicago. Tuesday, november 12th, release tickets monday at 10 00 a. M. Central. Get tickets for chicago the same place you got them for la. Msnbc. Com withpodtour. That does it for all in. This is an msnbc special presentation. Hello, im ari melber. Im joining you for something important. Each time there is a mass shooting in the United States, there are heartbreaking images of innocent People Killed or injured and families and communities who will never be the same. Schools, synagogues, churches, nightclubs. Conce concerts, shopping centers. We all know by now, it feels like no place is spared. Then we face the questions. We go through the ritual, why does this happen . Why wasnt something done after the last one, or the one before that . This debate over gun safety and gun control in our country is highly charged. For many, the solutions seem beyond out of reach at this point. After the