Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20190622

Writer e. Jean carrolls harrowing Sexual Assault by donald trump. Plus joy reid on what could be the most consequential event of the primary so far, and what we learned when a federal judge unsealed Sean Hannitys Text Messages with Paul Manafort. Thats what i said, thats obviously what our position in. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. Theres one thing we know for sure tonight and its something to be thankful for. We did not start a military conflict with iran last night. That is unequivocally good news. The rest of the story, including how close we came to launching an attack, remains unclear due to conflicting accounts and an administration whose word has absolutely no credibility. Not long after we got off the air last night, the New York Times broke the story that the president had approved military strikes against iran in response to the downing of an american surveillance drone. And then he abruptly changed his mind. According to the times citing Senior Administration officials, the president initially approved attacks on a handful of targets, including radar and missile batteries, and planes were already in the air and ships in position when the word came to stand down. Today the president gave his own account of what happened, both on twitter and in an interview with nbcs chuck todd. In his version, which frankly sounds like the script for a bad action movie, contains a couple suspicious details. Quote, we were cocked and loaded to retaliate last night on three different sites when i asked how many people will die . 150 people, sir. Ten minutes before, i stopped it. Im in no hurry. Our military is rebuilt, by far the best in the world. Sanctions are biting and more added last night. A lot there. First of all, its very hard to imagine the pentagon waiting until the last second to brief the president on potential casualties. And in fact the daily beast reports this is flatly untrue. The president was fully informed before giving the okay. Second of all, contrary to the president s claim, the white house did not impose new sanctions last night. He appears to have made that up. The president also contradicted key parts of the New York Times report telling chuck todd he never gave the initial go ahead and the attack had yet to get under way. So did you green light something or had you said if we do it, ill do this . Nothing is green lighted until the very end because things change. So you never gave a final order. No, no, no, no. But we had something ready to go subject to my approval. They came in about half an hour before. They said, sir, were about ready to go. Were planes in the air . No, were about ready to go. No, but they would have been pretty soon. We may not know exactly what happened last night. We do know how he got to this point in a broader sense, which is that the president , that same president , the one whos asking for us to thank him for not ordering the strike, has taken a series of steps that are designed to escalate tensions with iran, his campaign of maximum pressure. He started by violating the International Nuclear deal with iran even though his own government said iran was in compliance. By surrounding himself with top advisers who have for years been agitating for war against the iranian regime. Now faced with the incredibly highest of stakes consequences of those actions, the president is firing off tweets about potential death tolls and the u. S. Being cocked and loaded and its almost like he doesnt take the possibility of war or his own responsibility for the safety and security of the country all that seriously. A source told Maggie Haberman the president was pleased with his own performance and loved being in command by ordering the strikes and then ordering the standdown. Im joined by brett mcgirk. Just first, brett, as a basic tactical matter in terms of how Something Like this would go, is it plausible that the president is first informed of casualty estimates that close to the actual commission of the strike . No. The whole thing here is very strange. I think the first thing the military is going to tell the president is probably a range of options on targets. Theres always a Battle Damage estimate, meaning what we think the casualty toll will be in a strike package. So that would have been initially briefed. What i cant say is when the president was briefed or anything like that. We know, though, from his own account, i think we have to take his own account at face value, we were ten minutes away from his tweets, thats what he said, ten minutes away from a series of american air strikes on iranian soil that would have killed 150 iranians. So that would have been a very serious piece of business. The iranians probably would have responded in some way. The question then would be what would our response be . So its important in making these deadly serious war and peace decisions is thinking through the consequences. One thing i dont understand on the timeline is the hastiness of this. There did not seem to be an imminent threat to u. S. Personnel. There were not u. S. Personnel in danger, so its unclear even why the rushed timeline was apparent here over the last 24 hours. I am not someone whos spent my life or career at all making these sorts of calculations, presenting this advice to a president , but it strikes me that 150 iranians dead from u. S. Strikes in response to the downing of unmanned drone would be an extremely serious escalation that would produce very serious results and consequences. I think theres no question. Look, iran is a seriously problematic actor so we can all stipulate that. They have taken a series of provocations and reckless acts over the last month but you have to ask why. Why is your enemy making the calculations they are. They started to do this about a month ago really in response to our decision in which we are going to take all of their oil off the marketplace. Thats really a campaign that they see as economic strangulation. They consider it an act of war. So they are now taking these provocative moves which they see as defensive. I am pretty sure, and ive spent enough time around the iranians over the last decade in one way or another. Im pretty sure they have calculated that should the americans respond, they have a counter punch ready. It would probably be asymmetrical and deniable and then the onus would be back on the white house and the president on what to do. This can escalate quickly. I want to be clear about where things stand. You were the envoy for the coalition that was fighting against isis. We have, i think, around 4,000 to 5,000 American Service members in iraq still. Iraq is a place that the government has a relationship with iranians, there are iranianbacked militias that are very powerful in iraq. Those u. S. Service members are on the front lines as targets, right . In any count of counterattack. Well, this is why i dont quite understand the hastiness of the time frame. This is deadly serious business. I think if you want to put together a campaign, a strategy here against iran, what is your objective, number one. What are we trying to achieve. Then you put together your resources and means of deploying them. It is unclear what we are trying to achieve against the iranians through this maximum pressure campaign, thats one. In this strike package, what are we trying to achieve and then how would we make sure that our personnel are protected after the repercussions of the strike. Have we consulted with allies. Have we done the groundwork to make sure that we will have escalation dominance to control the aftermath. It just seems like given the time frame theres no way that deliberative process was really was really done and thats troubling. All right, thanks for your time tonight. Appreciate it. Chris, thank you so much. For more about how the iranians might be puerceiving te situation, im joined by someone whos done a lot of reporting on this regime and in particular the u. S. Relationship. How do you think the iranians are and particularly the government are viewing this, perceiving this and gaming this out . Im sure theyre very concerned about what happened last night and concerned about the character of the president of the United States and how he goes from one extreme to the other. One day hes calling the president of iran a lovely man and the next day hes threatening to annihilate the entire country. Its confusing. I think we have to consider from the iranian perspective whats happened the last two years. From the iranian perspective, everything was hunky dory two years ago. They were abiding by the deal. They were buying boeings, airbus planes, mercedesbenz, all these businesses were going and the people were happy because the economy was getting back on track. There was a winwin so they were complying with the terms of the nuclear deal and it was good for the iranian economy. There were some tensions. We didnt like the fact they were supporting assad. They were doing other things the u. S. Government didnt like. But we did like the fact that they were fighting isis in iraq but there was no crisis. No whatsoever. Probably the low point for crisisness between those countries since the 79 revolution. Absolutely. Between 2015 and between President Trump taking over and even the First Six Months of President Trump being president , there was certainly no crisis. So everything was going well. We were abiding by this nuclear deal that we didnt like. We iranians didnt like because we had to give up a lot of things in order to get this economic benefit. And then mr. Trump blows up the deal. Blows up the deal and then applies this maximum pressure on iran, not really knowing what the end game is. Its not clear we know as brett says, we know what the end game is here. So the iranians are going you blew up this deal action youre the arsonist and youre saying i want to put out the fire so come talk to me. Talk to you to do what . From the i rain januaranian pero get what . We had a deal. This is the iranian perspective. Im not defending it. No, but its important in this context. Theyre saying if we do that. If we come an sit down and talk to you, what we have done is rewarded you violating a deal that you signed. How do we know that the next president isnt going to do we can always just violate deals. You know, actually we want a better one than that now. So what theyre saying is we wont be held hostage. You want to talk to us. You were talking to us. Brian hook was the coordinator for the jcpoa and was going to those meetings every six months with the iranians. They could have talked there in those meetings. Once the u. S. Withdrew theres no official channel. In fact that was one of the big things about the joint agreement. Exactly. Was that it created for the First Time Since the hostages and the embassy in 1979. And it allowed john kerry to get on the phone and get sailors who were arrested in iranian waters released within 24 hours. I mean thats never happened. Right. So like i said, we had problems with iran. Iran had problems with the United States. But nothing like today. So what did we think was going to happen from the iranian perspective. Im sure donald trump he came of age after the iranian revolution, probably didnt do a lot of real estate deals with iran and probably doesnt know the i rain januaranian psyche be people in the administration that do. So you have to think whos advising mr. Trump . This isnt a mysterious culturally perspective, its the way a nation state would perceive a deal in the aftermath. When asked why didnt you meet with trump . Meet with him for what . To do what . Lets say we have the meeting, we shake hands and donald trump says, you know what, i agree with you. Ill lift these sanctions. Then he goes off on air force one back to washington and he says to john bolton and mike pompeo, make the deal. And the iranians dont trust because theyre hearing different things. You know, trump says theres no preconditions, ill sit down and talk to the iranians any time and mike pompeo says when they start acting like a normal country. There is not the credibility for diplomacy, for peace, for deescalation. It just doesnt exist. Its diplomatic malpractice actually whats happening right now. All right, thank you. That was illuminating. I appreciate it. Next, what it means to live in the reality of President Trumps incoherent approach to Foreign Policy. The danger of him leading us into a conflict with iran is still ever present. The unfit president , next. The un fit president , next. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix, you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. Chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. 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Has four levels of defenseremium gasoagainst gunk, wear, corrosion and friction. That helps keep your Engine Running like new. Its fuel for thought. We thankfully have gotten through the last 24 hours without a military escalation with iran, but all the conditions that brought us to that brink are still there, especially the nature of the commander in chief himself, including his other lack of moral compass or strategic vision. All of which are on display as he campaigned for the office, but now his mess of Foreign Policy contradiction on the trail is coming home to roost. I would just bomb those suckers. And, thats right, id blow up the pipes. Id blow up every single inch. There would be nothing left. Unlike other candidates for the presidency, war and aggression will not be my first instinct. Im going to bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. I would be very, very cautious. I think id be a lot slower. The other thing is with the terrorists, you have to take out their families. When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. We cant be the policeman to the world. Here to talk about the president s inconsistencies and contradictions in Foreign Policy, chris lu and barbara boxer, former democratic senator from the state of california and the cohost of the boxer podcast. You know, senator, just in that little montage, trump was all over the place. He was pro war crimes, pro torture, killing their families, bombing the s out of them, also we shouldnt start new wars. All of those competing impulses are brought together in the situation with iran and this is where we find ourself. Were in utter chaos. I served on Foreign Relations committee for many, many years. I personally never went to a briefing where we werent told what the expected casualties would be and what the options were. I was in the United States senate, not the president. But i have to say this is what happens when you have a clinical narcissist as president of the United States. Why do i say that . Because everything that obama was known for, the Great Success he had on getting close to universal health care, he wants to do away with, trump does, and there was the climate accords. He wanted to do away with that. And then one of the shiny examples was this treaty. The treaty with iran to stop them from getting a nuclear weapon. He walked out of that. He didnt sit down with them before. Now he wants to sit down with them. Last point is every action brings a reaction. What did they think would happen . And the bottom line is there are neocons who want war with iran. Im glad the president pulled back, but the whole thing is not gone. Its still there. No, its not gone. And to the point is, chris, that all of the kind of zigzagging of trump about all of this all over the place actually matters tangibly to resolving things, because there is no credibility of any attempts for a deal or peace on the other side to the iranians because of who he is and how he has talked about this. Theres also no sense of order, no sense of process. Chris, you described it well at the top of the show. This is like a really bad action movie. You have a president who has made about 11,000 false or misleading claims during his time and is now trying to make a case for war based on the reports of an Intelligence Community that hes derided for the past two years. Hes being advised by one acting defense secretary who is about to be replaced by a second one and according to federal law may soon be replaced by a third acting secretary. Theres no discernible policy process an hes being advised by his friends on fox news. Finally this is a president glibly talking about serious and grave matters of war on twitter, trying to fit all this in within 280 characters. He ultimately probably reached the right decision. Yes. But hes certainly not handling it in the deliberative way his predecessors have done. The outcome matters insofar as like not starting another war with iran, which strikes me as insane, but the problem is the process is what keeps us in the status quo, which is the possibility of escalation. Senator, part of that also has to do with where i mean senator tom cotton thinks we should have a strike on iran. There are voices in the republican party. Its obvious and clear to me that you need congressional approval, even though he wont get it. Can you imagine that theres anyone having lived through iraq, theres anyone in the United States congress who thinks starting another war in the middle east is a good idea . Oh, there are a lot of people there. A lot of hawks on the right and within the administration itself who have had their eye on iran for a long time. I mean when he pulled out of that treaty, we were alone. Our allies in nato did not want that. So now how do we look in the world . We look weak. We look odd. It looks like were in chaos, and that worries me. Because when this president , as narcissistic as he is, looks like maybe hes a little cowardly or whatever, the iranians are not good people. They are vicious. They have theyre a terrorist country. So lets just be clear. The iranians are good people, whatever you think of their regime. I meant the country. 80 million people, yes. I meant that the leaders of the country are not good people. They have terrorist cells all over the middle east. So we are walking into a problem. This isnt a question of dealing with a country that is very weak. They are very strong. And even though i agree with you, the people dont want this. What we have done to the people is punish them through this escalating series of sanctions. Yep. And now the president says ill meet with them anywhere, any time. Fine, i hope they do, trust me. But if they dont, i dont think were out of this mess. I completely agree with you. I also, chris, to the senators point, what seems very clear to me is what trump wants is what he did with nafta. To rebrand the thing, pull out and say he had another one. He would take the obama deal or a worse deal if it had his name on it an he thinks this is the way hes going to do it but the iranians have no incentive because of the way hes behaved. We know donald trump is no student of history but he would be well served to remember the colin powell line. If you break it, you buy it. So hes broken this Iran Nuclear Deal so now he owns it. He has no credibility to cut a new deal. Hes turned his back on the allies who pushed him to hold on to this deal. So now hes stuck trying to fix this alone. Theres no clear indication that he knows how to do that. Yeah, at this point the only real out is get back in the deal and extract some concession where they name it after donald trump and everyone can go back to the status quo and maybe hell be happy. Chris lu and senator barbara boxer, thank you very much. Next, the firsthand account of what is the most serious Sexual Assault accusation against donald trump yet. How the president himself is responding to what amounts to an allegation of rape. As a doctor, i agree with cdc guidance. I recommend topical pain relievers first. Like salonpas patch large. Its powerful, fdaapproved to relieve moderate pain, yet nonaddictive and gentle on the body. Salonpas. Its good medicine. Hisamitsu. Or trips to mars. 4. 95. Delivery drones or the latest phones. 4. 95. No matter what you trade, at fidelity its just 4. 95 per online u. S. Equity trade. 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Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. Trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling. Problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Think your copd medicine is doing enough . Maybe you should think again. Ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy and the power of 1 2 3. Trelegy 123 save at trelegy. Com tonight we find ourselves once again in the position of having to warn you about the graphic nature of a story concerning a man that we have made our president. That is because in the pages of new York Magazine today a wellknown writer has accused donald trump of raping her. In a cover story facing an excerpt from her forthcoming book, e. Jean carroll says after a joking exchange with trump in the Bergdorf Goodman department store, he assaulted her in a dressing room. She describes it in detail. The next moment still wearing correct business attire, shirt, tie, suit jacket, oversociety, he opens the oversociety, unzips his pants and forcing his fingers around my private area thrusts his penis inside me. Im wearing a pair of sturdy black patent 4inch high heels and i try to stomp his foot. I try to push him off me with one free hand. For some reason i keep holding my purse with the other and i push him off and i open the door and run out of the dressing room. Carroll spoke with anne thompson. I had a runin with the president in a dressing room in bergdorfs. I fought. It was shocking. It was against my will. The minute he closed the door, boom. He threw me up against the wall and tried to kiss me. It was so shocking to me. President trump released a statement reading in part ive never met this person in my life. She is trying to sell a book, that should indicate her motivation, it never happened. Here is a photo of them meeting, it is in the story she is referencing. It shows trump and carroll and their spouses at a party in 1987. Earlier today a senior white house official offered a statement calling the account completely false and unrealistic, although one has to note unrealistic is an interesting choice of words considering the behavior described in the story is remarkably similar to what trump himself has bragged about. As noted by carroll, trump has also denied accusations of Sexual Misconduct by 15 other women. After the incident at Bergdorf Goodman carroll told two friends at the time. New York Magazine verified that. A friend of carrolls confirmed that carroll told her about the alleged attack the next day. According to carroll, one of those friends, quote, said he raped you. He raped you. Go to the police, ill go with you, well go together. The other friend said tell no one, forget it. He has 200 lawyers, hell bury you. Tonight e. Jean carroll will join Lawrence Odonnell at 10 00 p. M. Joining me now maya wiley. Its a remarkable thing to read. Oh, its disturbing on so many levels. And the way she writes about it in her own voice is a very powerful and direct description of her side of events. Its also the case that i mean this is part of the issue for the president in denying this, is that there are other women who have accused him of doing things somewhat similarly. Nothing quite as bad and violent as this. But also he has talked about doing things like this, grabbing them by the privates, which is what she describes. I just start kissing them. Thats the famous line from access hollywood. It becomes difficult for him to deny it when those two things are there. Absolutely. And when she has one of the things that prosecutors look for when theres an absence of physical evidence in terms of demonstrating credibility is the fact that she told people at the time. Not that you should consider someone not credible if they didnt, because a lot of people keep what happens to them secret for deeply psychological reasons because its traumatic. But the fact that there are people she told at the time. If you remember, Justice Kavanaughs confirmation hearings was one of the issues in the ford case in terms of looking for people who she told contemporaneously. And she had not. She had not. It had been a period of years, which i said is not uncommon at all. But in this time you have contemporaneous discussions. She said i told two close friends. A journalist, magazine writer, correspondent on the tv shows, begged me to go to the police. The other was a new york anchorwoman which i thought it was interesting in thames of er presenting the social capital and credibility of the contemporaneous witnesses. Thats right. Appeared the contemporaneous witnesses can talk about her state of mind. When youre talking about and the way she recounts, shes a writer. Shes a very talented writer by the way this is written, that she can recount it in a way thats very direct. And in some respects clinical, right . And that can be used thats something that sometimes people use against someone who has been the victim of a crime is if they are not emoting. But if you told someone contemporaneously, then that person becomes a witness to your state of mind. Theres also the fact, whats remarkable to me is this is the year 2019. The president has started running for president four years ago and there was an avalanche of accusations against him on the record by women, many of whom also told people contemporaneously at the time. Some of whom have sued him. Some of whom have sued him. Summer zervos for defamation when he called her a liar. This is a new accusation and in some ways the most serious yet. Yeah. I think one of the things one, i will say we dont yet know wt happened. We do know that she has some corroboration. We know the president has denied it. But to your point, when you have a pattern of behavior, because he certainly also has a pattern of womanizing. I would say that is in the public record. Thats i think selfadmitted. Selfadmitted. He has said in the public record, deny, deny, deny and become aggressive in the face of accusation in order to get out from under it. So what that tells us is the fact of his denial is not sufficient either. But i think the question here, i have to say, new york state no longer has a statute of limitations on firstdegree rape. That doesnt mean that in this case she is necessarily saying she would bring a rape charge, but this would be a first from what i understand of the facts, this was potentially a firstdegree rape case which doesnt have a statute of limitations and she has the coat. So the other question i had is did she get it dry cleaned or not . And if theres also the fact that in the case of Summer Zervos who you mentioned, she has a lawsuit that will go forward as of now. Ets s its set to go forward in which a court of law she is suing him for defamation because he called her a liar so what with it be litigated are the underlying facts. And the president can be deposed. All of this conversation that we have had in the Robert Mueller special counsel investigation does not apply to state law, it does not apply to civil actions. The other question is whether we might see a civil action here. Maya wiley, thank you very much for coming in. A judge just released hundreds of texts between Paul Manafort and sean hannity. What they said about the mueller investigation, after this. At thr investigation, after this. This is a commercial about insurance and i know youre thinking. I dont want to hear about insurance. cause lets be honest. Nobody likes dealing with insurance. Right . See, esurance knows its expensive. I feel like im giving my money away. So theyre making it affordable. Thank you, dennis quaid. Youre welcome, guy in kitchen. 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Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Man 3 ask your rheumatologist about humira. Woman 4 go to mypsaproof. Com to see proof in action. Judge in washington, d. C. Today unsealed a document con taping hundreds of Text Messages between Paul Manafort and sean hannity. Prosecutors submitted the texts into the record during manaforts sentencing. The logs show the two chatted frequently for almost a year before manafort was sent to jail in june of last year. They touched on a lot of topics, but most importantly manafort made it clear over and over to hannity that he was not going to flip on the president. Trumps close friend, hannity, encouraged manafort to stay strong. Like on march 14th, 2018, when hannity texted, quote, why dont you get a sweetheart deal like gates . Manafort row plied they would want me to give up d. T. Or family, especially j. K. I would never do that. Hannity says i understand. There is nothing to give up on d. T. What did j. K. Do . Manafort replies nothing just like i did nothing. They will wanting me to make up stuff on both. I would never do that. Omg our system is so messed up said hannity. Well, i will say this about these texts. Sean hannity is not twofaced, duplicitous and he is not putting on a show. The sean hannity of the texts is the sean hannity you get every night. Hes basically performing his deep state monologues to Paul Manafort via text. Yes, which is why he should be fired in any kind of reasonable world where journalism exists. I know regular viewers of this show dont really need to be told this, but this is just further proof that sean hannity is not a newsman, he is a spokesman. He is like the sham wow guy, only what hes selling is misinformation. You see it rolling through all these texts. Can you imagine what would happen to you i dont want to blow up your spot but if you had these texts to Anthony Weiner saying stay strong, bro, its going to work out, i dont think you would have your show. I think it would be bad. You arent allowed to do that. Thats one thing. Then we have to remember the legal angle. The reason these got entered into the record is because there was a gag order. And manafort was violating the gag order. Right. By sending these texts to sean hannity. Theres a bit of the text from sean is like come on, bro, youve got to come on the show. Hes like the fyre festival. Come on the show and lets be legends. Manafort is like, oh, man, i cant, man, because of the gag order. Which he is violating throughout the texts. Theres also a gag order on his lawyer and manafort repeatedly in these texts showed that ken doweling is feeding sean hannity information. At one point sean says ken is feeding me. He has to keep feeding me. Ken dowling was also under the same gag order. The reason why these got entered into the record because theyre violations. Theyre violations of the gag order. The other thing, heres just a taste of what this is like. Like manafort says, you know, i wont give up and i wont sell out. This is the distress signals text from august 11, 2017. I wont give up, i wont sell out. In november he said we will win. Its going to be ugly, expensive and aggressive. I live in a nightmare every day but i wont give in. The clearest thing thats happening here is that hes talking to donald trump through sean hannity about whether he will flip or not. Yep. That is the obvious implication. Its not even subtext, its just text, right . At one point he says its just lonely out here, man. Its so lonely. Im very strong but its so lonely. Sean is like stay strong, brother, stay strong. Its sean hannity being the gobetween between trump and manafort telling manafort that its all going to work out. Manafort is saying, youre right, youre right, youre right, i have to stay strong. This is where we get into the j. K. Thing. Sean hannity completely in the tank for trump. Nothing wrong with trump. But what did j. K. Do, right . It keeps coming back to what did j. K. Do . Manafort says oh, nothing, just like me. See, the thing is manafort did something, right . It reminds me when you see like a prison movie, hey, what are you in for. The prisoner is like the lawyer got me. Thats what im in for. Everybody is like yeah. Thats manafort and j. K. Right now. And lets remember, mueller didnt go through the process of forcing j. K. To sit down. Thats right. To testify under oath in his investigation, which to me kind of rolls us all the way back into the congressional investigations and impeachment. These texts show theres clearly still more to uncover about jared kushner. Heres the thing i would say also, what these texts show to me. Your monologue was the best summary ever. The case against mueller an his team. Hannity, f him, disgrace. He calls weissman a pos. Again, heres what it shows to me. Manafort was never cooperating, he was never going to cooperate. We know he broke his Cooperation Agreement according to the government and also know that the president s lawyers are monitoring who is and who is not cooperating on ways that border with witness tampering if not crossing over into that explicitly. This certainly makes it seem plausible that sean hannity is a party to that. We thought that rick gates was cooperating, right . But in these texts manafort says, no, gates is with trump and me. Hes strong just like me. And then hannity says why dont you get a sweet deal like gates . They dont feel like gates is a threat to them, which suggests once again that gates wasnt actually cooperating this whole time. All right, thank you so much for coming in. Thank you. Still to come, less than a week from the first democratic debates, candidates are preparing for the biggest primary yet. Joy reid is live in South Carolina. Im going to talk to her about that ahead. Going to talk to hert that ahead fill up for the chance to win free fuel for a year. Thats one of thousands of prizes in the shell great gas giveaway fuel rewards members are automatically entered when they fill up at shell. Fuel rewards members are automatically hey, who are you . Oh, hey jeff, im a car thief. What . im here to steal your car because, well, thats my job. What . What . . What . laughing what . . What . what . [crash] what . haha, it happens. And if youve got cutrate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. So get allstate. And be better protected from mayhem. Like me. When crabe stronger. Strong, with new nicorette coated ice mint. Layered with flavor. Its the first and only coated nicotine lozenge. For an amazing taste. That outlasts your craving. New nicorette ice mint. One of the more maddening aspects of President Trumps policy of ripping immigrant children from their parents boy the thousands was the complete denial that that was what they were doing. Even after they announced it and talked about it, even bragged about it, there were those in the administration that not only refused to admit it but blatantly lied that it took place. The best example is former Homeland Security secretary kirstjen nielsen. He would go out and lie and lie and lie. Shed lie to congress. Shed lie to the people. Have you been directed to separate parents from children as a method of deterrence of undocumented immigration . I have not been directed to do that for purposes of deterrence, no. This administration did not create a policy of separating families at the border. There was no parent who has been deported to my knowledge without multiple opportunities to take their children with them. Lies. All of that. Obviously a lie when she first said it. It was more obvious after the agencys Inspector General said thousands more children than previously thought were taken from their parents and memos surfaced outlining the policy itself. After that lie, we all know its a lie. Kirstjen nielsen can do whatever she wants the rest of her life with that on her conscience. After that was so clearly debunked, the president is lying about it now today in the most insane gas lighty crypto totalitarian way imaginable. Here he is speaking to jose diazbalart in his first interview with a Spanish Language broadcaster. The zero tolerance policy, was that a mistake . Its not a mistake. We want to have strong borders. Let me explain. Thousands and thousands of children separated. When i became president , president obama had a separation policy. I didnt have it. He had it. I brought the families together. Im the one that put them together. Now, i said something when i did watch. Many more people will come up, and thats what happened. But president obama is the one that built those prison cells. I understand. 2800 children were reunited with their parents in the last year. We dont even know. The government doesnt even know how many children are still not with their parents. They dont know which i find incredible. Ready . Are you ready . Sir, were talking about your plan. No, im not. Im the one that put them together. They separated them you did not. 2800 children were reunited with their parents this last year after the zero tolerance policy. I put them together. Thats because i put them together. Under obama you had separation. Under a court order i may add. No, i put them together. Im the one that changed the plan. I inherited separation and i changed the plan. , no, no, no, no, no. All of that is wrong. Completely wrong. Completely backwards. There was no child separation policy. He did not inherit it. He didnt implement it. He ripped those children away. They were put together by a court order. So everything the president said was an outright lie. As trump tries to lie his way to a second term, the nearly 2 dozen democrats vying to replace him are all heading south for the weekend. Well get more from our own joy read after this. Since my dvt blood clot i was thinking. Could there be another around the corner . Or could it turn out differently . I wanted to help protect myself. 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With five days until the first democratic debate the biggest event in the 2020 primary is happening this weekend. It is the legendary jim kleiburns fish fry. Its the third state to hold its primary. It is also the first genuinely diverse multiracial state which matters a ton because the Democratic Party is a multiracial party. Not coincidentally, nearly every democratic candidate will be there so will joy reid and al sharpton. Senator Kamala Harris talks with joy live on a. M. Joy live and joe biden joins reverend sharpton live. All right here on msnbc. Joining me right now from South Carolina is joy reid. Great to see your face, joy. That looks like a fun event. Whats the atmosphere like . What are you expecting . Reporter the music is great. The crowd is huge. It took forever to get in here, chris, because there are so many people here. I dont know that ive ever seen this many people in one place, ear than a football game, huge. People that are passionate. You can hear cheering before any of the candidates got here. The people are here for their candidates and obviously here for the politics and the fish. Fried fish is good. Heres one way of thinking about the democratic field, particularly as sort of the joe biden story this week, him talking about the relationship he had with democratic segregationist senators. Yeah. I think people talked about racial cross tabs, what black voters in the democratic primary versus white voters, et cetera. One thing ive been noticing are the generational lines. I almost feel like yes. White and black young voters are closer to each other, particularly those who are post college, you know, graduate degrees, than older voters black and white. Yeah. Particularly on these kinds of issues. Thats right. What do you think of that . I think the generational stuff ends up having more salients than the racial ones did. Yeah, i mean, absolutely. On the surface level, right . What joe biden said about James Eastland and talmadge who, by the way, were segregationist democrats. He was not talking about bipartisanship. He wasnt talking about bipartisanship because they were also democrats at the time they were right wing conservative democrats, but what he said resonated so differently with older people that weve spoken with here, white or black. And when you think about it, six in ten South Carolina democratic primary voters last time were democrats. This is a heavily black primary. Older black voters view those kind of comments through a completely different lens. I just had a guy come up and explain why he likes joe biden. Hes probably in his early 50s, mid 60s, Something Like that. This is the way it is. If you wanted to get something done you had to work with people like strom thurmond, James Eastland. Biden as a white older man is from that generation. We get it, right . You have a lot of older black voters writing those comments off saying it shouldnt be something you judge biden by. Now when you talk with Younger Voters here, what i found just talking to people is theyre for Kamala Harris, cory booker, elizabeth warren. Theres a few yang gang here. Theres others other than biden. Joe biden is benefitting from the fact that as one political strategist extraordinaire told me, this is so lopsided over age 50, thats his advantage. Older black voters who are carrying joe biden right now. Thats a great point. If youre going to have a generational cleavage and youre a candidate in a crowded field, you want the older voters because thats where the most of them are. Thats where most of the votes are, not just in South Carolina but if you look at who turns out to vote in primaries, its largely voters over 50. A big question going forward, if that changes for those voters, who their allegiance to is, but also other people can motivate Younger Voters to come out and balance that. Well, thats the thing. I spoke to another strategist down here today. Speaking with politico as well as regular folks. The way that you shift that generational divide and get younger people in the game, numerically millennials are equal with baby boomers, maybe even a little more. The problem is is that those older church voters, Younger Voters need passion. So the question is can any of those 23 other democrats ignite the kind of just base level rock star kind of passion that you saw in 92 for bill clinton, that you saw in 2008 for barack obama . Is there a barack obama in that field because to be honest, great profile, great background isnt going to do it because the older voters are biden voters who takes them away. Somebody who ignites passion among Younger Voters. Really interesting. Well be watching your programming. Stay tuned tomorrow for more of joys outstanding conversations from tomorrow. Have a great weekend. That is all for this weekend. The Rachel Maddow show starts now with ali melber there. If i were at a fish fry on a friday night in columbia, South Carolina, i wouldnt have that much politics on my mind. A lot more fish. You have a fantastic week. Thanks for joining us at this hour. Rachel has the night off. She will be back on monday. I will try not to break the furniture while im here. Tonight is officially the first summer friday of 2019. It doesnt feel like it tonight in the news. For starters, a couple of hours ago a federal court unseale